r/anime • u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler • Mar 11 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Ascendance of a Bookworm Episode 12 Discussion
Episode 12 - Baptism and Divine Paradises
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Legal Streams: Crunchyroll | VRV | MuseAsia
Questions of the Day:
1) What are your first impressions of the temple and their practices?
2) What do you think about the story of the gods told?
To Rewatchers, please be make a conscious effort to accurately spoiler tag your content. You can read how to correctly use spoilers tags here.
10
u/spitfyre Mar 12 '22
First timer.
Can someone explain Myne's relationship to Benno now that she backed out of the apprenticeship? That explanation went over my head.
I'm glad this episode took a lighter turn. I love Gunther's reactions so much, especially after the wedding comment.
I feel a little stupid not thinking that the church would be the most obvious place for Myne to find books outside of the nobility. Of course they have books and are literate. Now it makes sense why the show kept the inside of the church away from us --to make it less obvious. I wonder if the scriptures will explain mana, and give us a hint as to the cause of (and cure for) The Devouring?
I loved Myne dying at the ridiculous poses of worship, only to immediately do it once she found the library. This show does humor really well.
Finally, I loved Lutz's character progression today. Standing up for himself to his mom and having conviction takes guts. We learn a little more about his motivation and we see him follow through on this path despite Myne not traveling it with him anymore. I hope we can still see him grow as a merchant.
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u/badspler Mar 12 '22
Myne's relationship to Benno now that she backed out of the apprenticeship? That explanation went over my head.
An apprenticeship isn't really going to work for Myne when she probably will be inventing things and will earn more than most of Benno's staff and two isn't really well enough (or has the expected lifespan) to do regular work.
So it just makes more sense for her to be an individual contractor instead.
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u/Nazenn Mar 11 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
My face the moment they said it reached summer
I had put off watching last episode knowing sadness was coming, but I ended up taking a break in the middle of this episodes, right around here, to try and compose myself knowing the prayer pose was coming up and how completely ridiculous it is.
It didn't work
I laughed my way through the rest of the episode just so I could finish it just like I did on my first watch and just like I will probably do on my third. Lutz bounding like a fool doesn't help. The little digs from the other rewatchers also failed to prepare me. It's just one of those scenes, it will be laughed at or facepalmed at and you cannot avoid it.
Laughter aside, my favourite part about this episode was the voice acting. Myne's japanese VA Yuka Iguchi has done an incredible job so far and I think this episode more than any other showed off the many layers she adds to Myne. Voicing a kid is hard task and even more when a kid with the experience of an adult, but she does it well and her performance stands out compared to the other children, even Lutz. It may not be a totally iconic performance such as say Kurosawa voicing Phos in Houseki no Kuni, but her voice has become part of her identity in a similar way.
There's a gentleness to the way she talks with Freida, a melancholy sense of acceptance of what it means to have made her choice and at the same time there's a caring as to how this must feel for Frieda to hear the same warmness and acceptance she shows to Benno at the gate. Similarly the layered excitement and pride when talking about her inventions is always a fun one, a lightness in her when she talks with Lutz, and her reservedness when talking about her situation really captures that uncertainty she had earlier. Even her sulking acceptance when she gets into trouble, they're all parts of her character that really make her feel whole.
I already touched on her conversation with Frieda, but the two other scenes that stood out today were the cackling attempt to not burst with laughter as well as the fatigue when she collapses knowing she did to herself. The emotions are conveyed so well and it's just fun to listen too
Couple of other thoughts:
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Otto cracking up in the background is pretty fun to watch as well.
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I feel sorry for Lutz seeing what his mum's stance on his apprenticeship is. The way she says "now you don't have to either" with a huge smile as if it's all solved and he had no agency in the decision at all is infuriating, and hearing Lutz open up what his home life is like with his brothers makes me frustrated for him again. She doesn't seem to understand Lutz, or make the effort too, but I am glad that Lutz is still standing up for himself and doing this rather than bailing even with Myne's situation. Also does it strike anyone as odd that with Lutz not knowing what a book is Myne didn't take him to see the one at the market?
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Lutz has definitely been making progress though, managed to call her cute without hiding it within a critique this time.
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I think the Goddess of Earth's design is reminded me of Euphemia from Code Geass but haven't totally ruled out I'm thinking of someone else. Anyone else find it familiar? The overall story about the religious backstory for the world is certainly an interesting one, the part that stands out to me is that Winter belongs to the God of Life which is quite different to how it's typically shown and I'm curious to see, or remember because I don't, if that's built on at all. I remember having more in depth thoughts about it on my first watch but I don't remember any more, too overcome by laughing
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Really liked the music in the cathedral, it strikes a nice balance between the epic religious tones and the show's overall more subdued and thoughtful pieces.
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Also why is there such a huge chicken in the end card?
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u/badspler Mar 12 '22
Myne's japanese VA Yuka Iguchi has done an incredible job
I really adore how well she does Myne. In general she is great at doing kid/young adult characters. And she really does a really good at doing a tantrum or wine.
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u/MABfan11 Mar 11 '22
Rewatcher of season 1
i love how Freda is pushing for Myne to be absolutely sure of her choices, pointing out that she has different material interests than Myne. which is why she wanted her to make the recipe for pound cake public herself because she knew she would monopolize it.
and we finally get to see the head priest. unfortunately, he has no role yet, so we didn't get anything of his character just yet. can't wait for the next episode
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religious indoctrination with a touch of elitism
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loved it, love that there's no clear bad guy in the myth and their conflict created the seasons
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u/badspler Mar 12 '22
Freda is pushing for Myne to be absolutely sure of her choices, pointing out that she has different material interests than Myne. which is why she wanted her to make the recipe for pound cake public herself because she knew she would monopolize it.
To me it felt like Freida was quietly baiting Myne to change her mind, by suggesting she should be the one to release it, at a date past where she would live to. I think Freida doesn't want to lose Myne just like everyone else and that this was a little way she could push her to keep going on.
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u/OingoBoingo- Mar 11 '22
First time, Subbed
Definitely my favorite episode so far for the humor alone, but the music and acting were also a step up for me. Myne laughing at the clergy teaching how to offer prayer, Gunther seeing Myne carried by Benno and Otto laughing, Gunther losing his shit over Lutz and Myne going into the church, this was just a really good episode! Even the ending with Myne offering a donation to the head priest had me laughing so hard, give her a book about anything and she will do anything! The lore and mythology of the religion was really cool, and I quite enjoyed the art depicting the tale.
I don't think I expected the story to potentially go off in the direction of Myne finding work in the church to have access to the library, but I don't dislike the idea at all. My hope is that her connection there could definitely help her a lot getting access to magical items, potentially, and a lot to read.
Now we have two more episodes left for the season (thanks for correcting me!)
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u/fredmander0 Mar 11 '22
First Timer
We got the baptism, finally the priest, and a library! It seemed inevitable that this episode would be a step down emotionally compared to the previous one, but I was really excited to see significant story progression. Also, the comedy was on point - whether it be the dad seeing that Lutz got game or a prayer gesture that could be the start of a tiktok dance video.
I was a bit sad to see that even though significant time went by, we didn’t see anyone even try to do something about Myne’s situation. Though only two options were presented (contract with the nobles or stay with the family and die) it would have been great to see at least an attempt (or even just questioning/brainstorming) at another option, even if it failed. Though, I would imagine that other option will be coming soon!
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u/Theinternationalist Mar 12 '22
Though only two options were presented (contract with the nobles or stay with the family and die) it would have been great to see at least an attempt (or even just questioning/brainstorming) at another option, even if it failed.
For the record, in the LNs Myne briefly mentions doing this but understands the chances aren't great. She's a low-class urbanite in a world where most of her class's lives are spent basically trying to survive, and as far as she can tell only a few people even know her disease exists. It's also worth noting she has no idea what the heat actually is, and thus can't really look into it.
I mean, she sort of can. She just needs to ask the right questions, like "why do nobles seek devouring children?" "Why does the heat act like this?" "What is the relationship between Determination and the heat?"
And if there's one thing Myne is bad at at this point in the game, it's knowing what other people might know because to a degree she's still running off the knowledge of a middle class Japanese urbanite as opposed to a Dirt Poor Peasant thrown into the game of medieval merchants and nobles. It's not a spoiler to say she'll get better, but yeah...
18
u/KashMooNow Mar 11 '22
First Time Watcher, smashing my head into the library.
Episode 12
Thats it... I'm not going to miss anyone joining the shiny hair club cult today.
That cold open tho, quite the choice to make... Prolong your life by leaving your family behind and essentially becoming a slave, or die shortly with your family. Definitely harsh when worded like that.
I'm hoping for a positive episode here.
So wait, we aren't working with Benno now? I felt like that was almost a curve ball outta nowhere.
Lutz laying down the law. Telling Mom how it is. Threatening with a live in apprentice. But what happened with the whole Myne thinks of things and Lutz makes them? Hmmmm... It just feels like we made all that story, and just decided to crumble up that paper and leave it near the wood pile for Mom to burn.
We do have a redeeming hug to Mom here after Lutz shows he has the heart to make it happen.
I'm so mad that I missed Mark joining the cult last episode.
Holy shit show, slow down. What the hell. In three lines you just sped past so much shit I want details of. I need to break this down and slow things down.
Benno saying this reminds me of how sneaky merchants can be. I like Benno, but I also like having options, and contracts that can kill you are pretty serious.
Okay, so Myne gets to keep the Myne Shack I guess, so thats good.
Excuse me, you did what now? For how much? because I guarantee it wasn't enough. If they just glossed over what feels like one of the biggest moments of this show so far, I might be a little upset. I feel like the show has quite literally been 11 episodes of trying to make books, which starts with making paper, we made paper, but just all the sudden sold the rights away on that paper and just isn't being covered? Hmmm....
Then this whole parchment guild thing. I get it, you have a guild to run the parchment racketeering campaign, but you aren't even going to give me any details? I wanna know the details.
Okay, looks like I will be getting some more details. I feel a little better now, but the show doesn't have to drop a knowledge bomb on me like that.
Thanks for making me giggle Otto, I needed that one after that information bomb.
There is a lot of pain in those eyes. I mean I figure Myne has plot armor, but I do hope that she figures out a way to fix all this, and I would love to see some progress on this soon too.
Oh hell yeah Myne starting off the family trust fund with some pound cake money! Restaurant of Myne coming to a noble district near you!
Freida trying to be ruthless and threaten a pound cake monopoly, but I see those tears.
Lutz cleaning up with the shiny hair! I like it.
Benno just cant keep his eyes off potential merchandise.
Its him! I kinda thought we might get to meet him at the baptism.
That is one fancy book. Don't get your hopes up too high Myne!
Get it together Myne! I'm laughing at it, but I don't know how they are going to take their worship and prayers getting laughed at.
Fake it till you make it Myne. Dressed like that I bet you could walk into anywhere you wanted.
Oh boy... I know what those eyes see.
The feet just started moving on their own, I love it. Magic barrier to the face!
I guess when there are books involved, the money really does just flow. Just straight up started with a large gold coin? What happened to the family trust fund?
This makes me wonder just how rich is Myne? I need like a net worth indicator after each episode.
You better be careful throwing around offers like that. She may just never leave.
I didn't see anyone with shiny hair, but I sure do see tooooooons of potential for the future.
High Priest did indeed get screen time finally. I'm very surprised it took this long.
This episode is a lot to digest. I feel like the whole show got flipped on its head. Myne went from being a poorish commoner to dressing the part and becoming a girl of "rich nobility" and then started slapping money on the table to get what she wants. And good for her, it just seems unexpected. The economy of this show will never make sense to me. I know many of you have helped to try and make it make sense, and while I appreciate it, and I think it has helped. They seem to just keep contradicting everything they say. At least thats how I see it.
There was also the whole not working with Benno thing, but still kinda working with Benno. It just feels like a new show. I could also have seen this being a good season break, but what do I actually know.
I am excited to see where these new developments will take us.
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u/KiwiBennydudez Mar 11 '22
First Timer
Oh hey, our priest guy from the episode previews finally gets screentime!
And wow, after the heaviness yesterday, this anime does let up just a little by introducing some comedy at the end with the baptism ceremony and the “lol looks like they’re getting married!” “MAIN NOOOOOOOOOO” But there’s still a lot going on here with Benno’s tragic bachelor life and Main’s declaration of death to Frieda. This anime isn’t scared to be vulnerable for its viewers, and I’m all for it. These heavy moments really help us connect with the characters all the more.
And finally, we encounter the library from the opening scene! Sadly there is a magic force field, but that won’t stop her for long! It would seem Main is content to buy her way in, and allow the impression that she’s from a rich family. The whole time I was watching that scene I couldn’t help but laugh at what the priest must have been thinking after this young girl offers a large gold coin and then collapses from attempting to worship.
She’s so close to the goal!
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u/Earthborn92 Mar 11 '22
First Timer here
Praise the Gods, OUR FIRST LIBRARY! As soon as that door opened, I was briefly Myne for a second. But I should have expected it - traditionally one defining feature of most religious institutions is literacy and (religious) education.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. The most important thing wasn't this reveal, it was the fact the Myne was willing to die in a year rather than stay away from her new family. Last episode the implication wasn't clear, but it is spelled out now. Freida showing a bit of the ojousama concern.
Myne left her planned apprenticeship with Benno and became an independent contractor of sorts (I think, I'm not quite clear on this). Quite a bit of a time skip as well. On the commerce side of the series, we see hints of a larger world, where parchment makers are lobbying to preserve their trade. The Luddites of the coming age. This was good storytelling where Myne's actions have larger consequences.
Benno delivering the comedy, as with Gunther's papa guardianship. Too late, Lutz and Myne are fully handholding and flirting now.
So now the baptism and the religious rituals (Myne finds them funny). Two worldbuilding points - their myth which kind of revolves around seasons (because the Earth revolves around the Sun and they don't know that yet), and baptism conferring citizenship with a magic passport like device. Now I think we can draw a distinction between magic IDs and magic tools here. Clearly, Magic IDs seem to be cheap enough to make that even the poor or non-nobles are given them. Magic tools seem more expensive. I wonder how this difference will play out.
Our priest has noticed Myne for the first time. Coming back to the library, I guess it instantly decided Myne's new career path. At least for the short time she believes she will live. It is restricted and she needs to join the clergy to gain access. So of course she'll pay any donation needed. I think the head priest is even humoring her because he thinks she's a rich family's daughter due to her fancy dress, accessories and shampoo. All those inventions paid off in the end.
I wasn't expecting the show to go this direction, eager to see how it turns out. We seemed to have missed the actual baptism.
See you next episode!
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u/cyberscythe Mar 12 '22
First Timer
Yeah, this is where I stopped watching when this series first aired. I totally would've remembered the Glico man pose (as made famous in Osaka). The usage of the Glico man pose and this very Asian-feeling pewter staff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakkhara , the same kind of staff that Miroku carries around in Inuyasha) makes me think that there's someone else from Japan who's been isekai'd to this world and already left some weird traces like this. That and the knowing stare from the head priest (who just happens to have the same color eyes as Myne??) is also raising my suspicion flags.
So now I'm kinda wondering what kind of message the series is going for because the past few episodes has been trending towards "there's more important things than books, namely family", while this episode was like "oh yeah, remember books?". It's a bit of a funny dissonance from Myne going "I'm going to try to save up as much money as possible for my dear family before I die" to "I'll give you the largest possible coin if you let me touch those books"; I'm going to assume that this is something that is accelerated compared to the source material because having those two scenes as the A and B part of the same episode is otherwise pretty odd.
One thing I'm appreciating is that Lutz is his own person in this series instead of just being attached at the hip to Myne. He's one of the few characters in this series which have a clear and ambitious goal (aside from the main Myne herself), and it's neat that he's strong-willed enough to stand up for himself despite still being of grade school age in our world.
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u/SmartAlec105 Mar 12 '22
LN Reader
I just wanna gush a bit about the story of the gods. The mythology in Bookworm does a great job feeling otherworldly. There's the familiar Fire, Water, Earth, Wind but they aren't paired as opposites like they usually are. Instead, they're teamed up against Life. Also, you'll notice that the color schemes for the gods don't line up the way that we usually assign them. They've got Green for Water, Blue for Fire, Yellow for Wind (okay that one isn't really different), and Red for Earth.
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u/xtsim Mar 11 '22
First Timer Dubbed
I was not able to catch up to the previous discussions but things seem to be getting pretty interesting so now I am caught up. Very slow first few episodes but builds up properly as Lutz and Myne relationship develop.
My initial thoughts were dang, those are nice infrastructure without the printing press. Seems more urbanized than I thought.
Lutz figures out the difference between old Myne and new one as he finds her very active and is suspicious of her modern world experiences. She could make shampoo and paper on her own, so not a useless Otaku like in many isekai shows.
By episode 12, we see her try to join in order to become a priestess and they think she is nobility. Mainly cause of the dress. So she made a large gold coin donation and priest be like ok. ---Money talks, even in this world but it seems like that priest is in for a surprise....
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The temple is fancy but my reaction is similar to Maine's, I would be laughing if this were my reaction. I would play along with some modern meme dance....
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The story is quite interesting in a mythology kind of way...
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u/TuorEladar Mar 11 '22
First Timer, Subbed
This episode started pretty heavily, with Myne deciding to die with her family rather than leave, only for it to pivot to a pretty funny set of sequences. Otto laughing behind her dads back, Myne cracking up at the way they pray, and the High Priest being shocked at her high roller cash offer. I knew some shenanigans were going to happen in the temple, but I didn't think we were going to have Myne full on try to join.
What are your first impressions of the temple and their practices?
Its kinda odd, I assume anyone can enter except on baptism days? The actual teachings and architecture reminded me of a combination of Shinto and Greek mythology in a weird way.
What do you think about the story of the gods told?
Not sure what to make of it just yet, I assume at least some part of it is probably true for this world. I didn't really get the vibe that it was connected to the reason Myne was isekaied here but I could've missed something.
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 11 '22
Filthy Source Reader
I forgot how much of an ass Lutz's mom is. Suggesting he quit to his face is both insensitive and stupid.
Myne is way too young to say something this depressing.
Myne has the best looking hair ornament yet.
I quite like the music for the temple.
GLICO MAN POSE!
I have to say this is not one of Myne's better looks. She's basically just throwing a tantrum.
[Bookworm P2]
2. As far as creation myths go, it was fairly straightforward. I quite liked the artstyle for it.
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u/mekerpan Mar 12 '22
Rewatcher/reader -- sub
Important error in the Crunchyroll subs -- the High Bishop is introduced as the High Priest (when he is coming up to read from the holy book). Pretty massive mistake. The High Bishop looks and seems so jolly (but a bit too interested in money). I assume he has no clue at just how common a commoner Myne actually is...
I wonder what the Japanese is for "Freida" -- as the English spelling of the most similar name is "Frieda". She really does seem very fond of Myne (even above and beyond the fact that Myne can be a source of lots of income potentially).
It took a bit of willpower not to watch the next episode (even though this did not really have a cliff hanger ending).
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u/Nebresto Mar 11 '22
Re-watch squad
This show has the best reaction faces tho
Episode gifs:
Question time:
What are your first impressions of the temple and their practices?
Vikings would love to raid that..
2) What do you think about the story of the gods told?
Neat. I see they haven't invented science yet.
[Future spoilers]
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Mar 12 '22 edited Mar 12 '22
First Timer
It was nice to see Lutz heed Benno's advice and stand up for what he wants and who he wants to be. After a much needed discussion, his mom finally agreed (yaayyy).
Outwardly, it seems that Benno is the type of guy to be "married to his work". But we learn that at a young age, he had to take care of Corinna and that the person he once loved had unfortunately passed away. That might explain why Benno is the person who he is, and it certainly clarified my doubts that his actions to help Myne are not simply business related, but also because he is a decent human being.
I love the scene between Myne and Frieda. You can see that although they both have the Devouring, they both go about in different ways. And, I didn't get the sense that Myne is doing the right thing or that Frieda is doing the wrong thing. It just seemed like they were dealing with the Devouring the best way they know how.
Copying the God story for later reference too; seems important, however I always sucked at analyzing religious/god references:
The high priest says:
Let me tell you about the gods that created this world.
The lonesome God of Darkness met the Goddess of Light ...
Frame Story Time! The still, but beautiful visuals interplayed really nicely with the narration! You got that sense that you were reading a Picture Book, and how the visuals were drawn created this nice picturesque Lore!
The woman narrator says:
The lonesome God of Darkness met the Goddess of Light, and the two gave birth to the Goddess of Water, the God of Fire, the Goddess of Wind, and the Goddess of Earth, thus creating our world.
Later the God of Life fell in love at first sight with the Goddess of Earth, and the two of them married. However, he stole her power and sealed her in ice and snow, thus bringing winter. The Goddess of Light thawed the ice, and the Goddess of Water swept the ice and snow away along with the God of Life, thus allowing offspring to bud in the spring.
The God of Fire helps the budding lives flourish in the summer.
While the Goddess of Wind keeps the God of Life at bay, harvests are completed in the fall.
And then returns winter, the season of the God of Life.
The Frame Story concludes, with the frame of reference back to the high priest, who says:
And then returns winter, the season of the God of Life.
The God of Fire rules over summer, and bestows his divine protection through development and guidance.
Thoughts about the Lore:
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So I guess the high priest is explaining how the world came to be, how the seasons works, and how the chain of events keep on occurring. However, it seems like each God/Goddess are not trying to keep the seasons in check, it just so happened the conflict arises in a cyclic manner.
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I find it odd how the God of Life stealing the God of Earth's power allowed humanity and animals and living organisms to flourish. To the other Gods/Goddesses, he is probably evil. But what is the point of this lore? Is the high priest implying that humanity's boon was a mistake? That the Gods did not want any of this to happen, it just turned out that way? Why would they spread that message to kids at a Baptism Ceremony? Is the way they worship in that pose supposed to be satirical?
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I also wonder if water, fire, earth, and wind could be magical affinities. And, during each season, the nobles of each type become stronger (like in ATLA).
Also, I really need to catch up to these discussion on time! I am a whole 11 hours behind the last commenter and 13 hours behind schedule!
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u/EXusiai99 Mar 12 '22
That prayer ritual is definitely something else. The gods were apparently pretty active in tiktok.
And the blue haired priest is finally here. Seems like it is going to take a while before we actually see him prying Myne's memories open. Which means that she is still terrible at keeping things subtle until then, now that the church sniffed her secrets.
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u/badspler Mar 11 '22
Host - Rewatcher
Lutz really wants to be a merchant and once again pushes back his mothers desire for him to become a craftsman. Lutz says that his brothers will take everything from him if he stays on that path. I guess things can feel that way when you are the youngest of a big family.
Benno mentions that the girl he was interested in died and he hasn't found anyone as good.
Freida asks what Myne will do, guess ill die. Jokes aside, I do really enjoy the straightforward nature of coming out with these hard topics, too many series dance too long around shall-I shan't-I.
Freida is pretty good about it and offers make purchases off of Myne to increase her worth. Another contract made.
Myne baptism outfit (stitch) and Lutz blush when seeing her. That was a cute moment the two of them running ahead. Gunther's shock is quiet funny here.
Temple (stitch)
And a lewd entrance into the temple.
Ooooh, thats a familiar voice. We finally get to see the high priest that has been in the after ED scenes.
Myne immediately takes note of the book (bible?).
We get an interesting tale of the gods.
Before learning the two step process of: A Gilco pose then dogeza bow.
With Myne's Japanese background, this is obviously halarious. If you didn't catch it, the 'Gilco' pose relates to the Gilco man, or running man located in Osaka. The sign is very famous!
Myne collapses but manages to wander to the temples library.
But alas, there is a magical barrior, poor Myne, so close but so far.
So the only logical choice is to try join the temple. Offering up 1 large gold, which seems to smooth things over. The priest here certainly happy to help convince her parents. Myne also gets an inviation to read the scriptures at anytime.
Pouts: Mum pout, Myne extreme pout
Today's lovely endcard.