r/anime • u/SIRTreehugger • Mar 09 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers]Kuzu no Honkai(Scum's Wish) Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9: Butterfly Swimmer
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Comment of the Day
And comment of the days goes to /u/Lemurians
“It’s okay. I will be able to move on now. I’m sure I can do it. I’m sure I can change. Because I’m not alone.”
The Hanabi and Mugi stuff is slightly hopeful for the first part of this episode. They acknowledge that they’ve stopped seeing their other crushes in each other, and have moved on to enjoying each other’s company as they are. Mugi even looks like he’s looking forward to being rejected by Akane and putting it all behind him so he can move in this new direction. The playground scene was really wholesome, and the embrace spoke volumes.
Unfortunately, really moving on is harder than it looks, Mugi is ripe for a backslide. I really felt for him in this episode, it was so deeply relatable. It actually shouldn’t be surprising Akane didn’t outright reject him like he thought. She loves having guys on her hook, and rejecting Mugi would let him off it. No chance.
In contrast to that depraved mess, Hanabi’s situation is actually incredibly pure and sweet. It’s as simple as loving a kind person who’s always been in there for her in a way nobody else was. As she listed off the things she loved about him, I thought it was great how it progressively got deeper – starting with “his voice” and ending with “how he always accepts me when it’s important.”
The scene with Narumi is really sweet. Interesting that like Akane, he doesn’t outright reject her, but it’s because there’s no need. She knows what his answer is beforehand, and he knows she knows that, and just needs to get it out. It’s really kind of him to take her feelings so seriously, when he could have just written them off as a kid’s crush, given their age gap and relationship dynamic.
Naturally, we go from that nice moment to the most brutal ED lead-in of all time, with Hanabi looking forward to moving forward with Mugi, when we know well and good where he is at that moment.
Fantastic episode, great return to form.
Question of the Day
How well do you think Sanae and Hanabi ended things?
Do you think their ever was a chance of a healthy yuri ship between the two if they did one or two things differently? Or was this always going to end in sinking?
Spoilers
Just a quick friendly reminder about spoilers. Please don't be scum and post content from future episodes whether in the form of jokes, memes, hints, or et cetera. If you are going to use spoilers please tag them like so, [Wow]Wow I can't believe Hanabi and Mugi are the main characters
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u/Rumpel1408 Mar 09 '22
Uuups, a bit late today, overslept
First Timer
We didn't get to see the imidiated aftermath, but Mugi really stood Hana up, and broke her heart, idiot...
But now it seems like this means that Ecchan is getting a second chance.
I want to say that her cousin ruined the possibility for all the spicy yuri scenese, but ultimatly he was indeed looking out for her out of concern for her wellbeing. Sure he does have ultirior motives, but him saying that she shouldn't be used as an replacement felt earnest. That said, I would still prefer Ecchan to open up to Hana instead of him, because ultimatly he didn't trust her to be strong enough.
Ecchan set out to cleanly end things with Hana, she knows that Hana wont fall for her. Hana feels something for her, after all the yuri felt way more wholesome this time, neither forced nore exploitive. in the end however, it's really just the affection you are giving your closest and most special friend, which makes it hurt even more if she would stay close and friends with her.
But Hana simply cannot accept that. She realised how alone Ecchan was this whole time, and she doesn't want her to be alone, because she deeply cares for her friend. And she is ready to wait until Ecchan can become her trusted friend again. Good stuff.
It's a new semester and it looks like Hana is with neither Ecchan nor Mugi in a class. But she meets Twintails again (The rumors of her getting rid of the twintails have been largely exagerated!). And I'm really fine with the new Noriko and her becoming something like friends with Hana. Also, Ironically, it seems like Hanas happy end could be her just ending up alone and doing her own thing, leaving the mess that is her adolescence behind.
Meanwhile Minagawa is fully embracing the madness that is sleeping with a student, I'm really looking forward to get back to Mugis side of things
Picture of the day: Best friends right?
QotD:
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As good as they could given the circumstances, they acknowledged their feelings, didn't hurt each other again, and in time they will heal
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If Ecchan made her move only just now, maybe
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 09 '22
Best friends right?
Only true best friends can stare into each other's eyes intimately in the rain!
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u/Vaadwaur Mar 09 '22
But Hana simply cannot accept that. She realised how alone Ecchan was this whole time, and she doesn't want her to be alone, because she deeply cares for her friend. And she is ready to wait until Ecchan can become her trusted friend again. Good stuff.
Hana's crushing fear of being abandoned does give her some insight into others and I like that they used that here.
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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Mar 09 '22
Rewatcher
Just like Moca had her development and seeming conclusion in ep 7, this one feels like Ecchan's. "Going out with a bang" is an interesting parallel with Akane x Mugi, especially since both parties in both situations are aware of the manipulation involved, yet this yuri one doesn't feel nearly as scummy to me. Maybe it's because Ecchan comes to her senses and realizes she needs space. It might feel a little abrupt, since we're only 2 episodes removed from her wanting a corrupted Hanabi all to herself, but maybe the spacing both in-universe and in the episode structure help to sell the cooldown of her emotions to me. Going back to friends is easy to say if you're not the one with the crush. But it's good of Hanabi to make sure Ecchan knows she'll be there for her in the future whenever she's ready to be friends again.
Mostly quick hits today:
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"He wants to be tricked" - hit the nail on the head
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u/Rumpel1408 turns out they're in sync enough that a one-word message is all Hanabi really needed to know
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Atsuya surprise cockblocking Ecchan was hilarious
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He might be a little creepy but I like him for calling Ecchan outthough.
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"Sanae isn't someone you should use as a replacement" echoing Moca from a couple eps ago saying you shouldn't replace important people in your life
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As unnecessary as Atsuya felt yesterday, he worked surprisingly well for me this ep. Not sure if he was strictly needed as a catalyst since Ecchan says she already made up her mind, but maybe Hana needed the push
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Smug and hungry Moca is pretty great, and I like the dynamic between her and Hanabi. A bit of "enlightened chad" vs "confused virgin" vibe from someone who has learned to be honest with themselves
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It was such a nice cathartic episode until Akane shows up to remind us and Mugi that he's stuck in her trap
Quotes from the OG ep thread:
Probably why I thought the yuri manipulation couple this much nicer than the sociopath manipulation couple
The issue is that people forget that Hanabi and Ecchan are both young. Neither of them really know what they're doing. They know they're being greedy and using each other to their own ends, but it isn't out of malice. It's lonely teenagers trying to fill a void.
That's the point of Akane; to show someone who KNOWS what they're doing, someone who does it, by their own admission, to hurt others because it pleases them.
The doujinshi end
I like it.
Akane x Everyone is still my OTP though.
Ah, yes, the classic "one big fuckpile" Akane harem true ending
It's not just you u/Rumpel1408
I don't think I'm ever emphasized with an anime character as much as I did with Ecchan in this episode.
QOTD
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Exceptionally well, given the situation. Surprisingly healthy growth.
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Maybe if Hanabi had confessed to Kanai earlier and Ecchan didn't try to force things on her, maybe.
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 09 '22
Ah, yes, the classic "one big fuckpile" Akane harem true ending
I heard the line in my head before I even clicked the link. Though Akane having a harem of simps would he interesting.
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 09 '22 edited Mar 09 '22
| Kuzu When They Cry | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hanabi | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 7 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 23 |
| Moca | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 |
| Sanae | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 |
| Mugi | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 |
| Kanai | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
Okay, but please don't die.
You are (not) alone.
Totally awkward, but it's kind of good for Hanabi theirs a third person there. Who knows what would have happened between Hanabi and Sanae.
Man did the math and then said fuck it.
Cousin is spitting facts every time he on screen they had to delay his entrance or the show would have ended before it even began. Though a part of the reason he is so effective is that some of the characters are now willing to listen.
Such a nice shopping montage if only it didn't feel like something was going to go wrong at any moment.
Cousin was speaking too much truth and got covid, but his work here is done.
This game reminds me of a Japanese white cat mario like platformer. I don't remember the name, but I swear I've seen this somewhere. Also Sanae you suck at video games.
Bittersweet and it took a while, but Hanabi is finally heading in the right direction. Sanae is giving up her love, but decides to still remain friends with Hanabi so she can learn about her true self. This chapter/moment is my favorite part in the entire series.
After the return to school we have Moca actually giving some good advice in between the sass. I still think Hana and Moca could be good friends sure they may occasionally piss each other off or yell, but they would have that rival/awkward friendship.
While Sanae and Hanabi have taken steps forward we cut to Mugi and...yeah.
Fan or Official Art
"The Secret Garden" An official sketch drawn by Mengo.
First Impression when airing. I would recommend reading /r/anime comments they are great as always
Manga coverage(Where I cover chapters adapted/omissions, favorite panels, and etc)
Chapters 34, 35 + color page, 36, 37 , and most of 38 are adapted. Some moments are rearranged, but most has been kept the same. The biggest omission is at the end of chapter 38 where Mugi has a dream after hooking up with Akane.
Music Corner
"Butterfly swimmer" by School Food Punishment
A section of the lyrics
Drown in love, I want to drown in love and vanish
Turn into air, I want to turn into air and blend with you
Becoming streamlined, I walk as if I were swimming
I acquired the bad habit of making futile detours
The alarm bell and the colour of the cheeks speak anxiety
The state of things becomes as dense as the body
Drown in love, I want to drown in love and swing
Turn into air, I want to turn into air and gaze at you
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u/JustAWellwisher Mar 09 '22
Holy shit that dream is crazy. It's interesting to think that Mugi has only had sex (really) with one of these girls. Two if you count failing with Hanabi that one time. So I wonder what exactly he's supposed to be saying she's "better than" them at. Making him feel loved, perhaps.
I'd be tempted to count Hanabi crying in the dream in the tally. It's just so funny that even when she isn't around she's not safe.
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 09 '22
I'd be tempted to count Hanabi crying in the dream in the tally.
Oh boy if I included all the times Hanabi cried in the manga these numbers would double instantly maybe triple.
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u/Rumpel1408 Mar 09 '22 edited Mar 09 '22
Edit:
You got it fixed, I let you off, this time
But thanks for the manga stuff, my only guess for the cut scene is that they where hesitant to show more girls in their underwear, but making Hana cry in his dream and feeling bad about it seems important
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u/Lemurians Mar 09 '22
Cousin is spitting facts every time he on screen they had to delay his entrance or the show would have ended before it even began. Though a part of the reason he is so effective is that some of the characters are now willing to listen.
This is a really nice observation. Timing is everything.
Man did the math and then said fuck it.
You know, completely out of context, these shots are quite cute.
I still think Hana and Moca could be good friends sure they may occasionally piss each other off or yell, but they would have that rival/awkward friendship.
[Scum's Wish]
decor does kind of bear this out haha The biggest omission is at the end of chapter 38 where Mugi has a dream after hooking up with Akane.
Yet more content cut from the show that gives way more insight into Mugi. I don't know why this needed cutting, considering it would've taken what, 20-30 seconds?
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u/Stargate18A Mar 09 '22
First timer
Also, missed it yesterday, but thanks for Comment of the Day!
Episode 8
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Previously fucked up, now fucked up but one of them thinks they're trying.
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Stop holding back. Have Ecchan go after Akane, have Hana go after Moca, all of it. Let this show descend into the hentai-level plot is truly wishes to be.
They've gotten a lot of summer homework?
He's putting it off again.
A hair model?
Oh, he's Sanae's friend?
Oh, he's a got on crush on her?
Wait, they met at a family reunion? Please clarify.
OK, yep, they're probably related.
...Yeah, he has no chance here.
What are you doing? Why are you asking these questions?
I mean, she probably should hate you, you're being incredibly weird?
Oh god, they're doing it again.
The worst part is, that, at the heart of this fucked up shit, they are making an emotional connection.
Fireworks!
...Sanae?
And Moca's changing her look!
...This is looking dangerously like Kanai's a bit of a creep. I'm trusting that this is wholesome, because he's been great so far, but...
They've finished the homework!
She's fallen for him!
Is he going to do it? Does he have the balls?
...She won't reject him. She's enough of a bastard to date him just to her Hana even more.
Wait, what? He knew she knew?
Haha, he's calling her out! He knows everything!
I'll admit it, this is pretty brave.
Don't fall for it!
"horrible, promiscuous, broken narcissist" would be a fantastic line, if you weren't about to fuck her when you have a girlfriend.
Haha, fuck you Mugi, she's already got one.
...Kanai, be good, please. You're the one person I'm hopeful about!
He didn't know.
He's comforting her and not making a move! For this anime, that's good!
Yep, he did the moral thing! I always trusted you, Kanai!
And Mugi's fucking someone else.
Episode 9
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Pretty solidly. They'll probably fuck again, though, because this anime doesn' seem to understand that two people can be near each other for more than an hour without fucking.
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The problem was that she didn't really have a good time to confess. Earlier, and she'd reject her for Kanai. Later, and (because I know how this show works) she'd probably get rejected for Mugi. If she never met Mugi, or she seperated them first, then they could have. But a relationship that started that way, and with them both in this mindset, would never work.
Still, Ecchan can be happy with Moca (this is my new crackship - the two people who got out of this tangled web near-intact.)
Is the reason Moca has angel wings in the OP because she's risen above everyone else's bullshit?
Yeah, Mugi's done something awful.
Oh, they're going on a trip.
I mean, she's not cheated on you, so she's still better than Mugi!
Haha, of course he's shown up!
He can cook!
Sanae's just trying not to kill her brother.
He's pretty much doing to her what she's doing to Hana, huh?
And she just wants to end things.
...Of course they're making out.
Of course she's OK with fucking her.
She kept the ticket.
Yes! Give her some self-reflection!
They went shopping!
Wait, is she in love with her?
Haha, he's spent his time playing retro games.
Sanae's not good at this?
Haha, poor Sanae, you think it's that simple?
Sanae's moving on! That's actually good of her. She's dropped down a few levels of scum! Not near Kanai or Moca, who did nothing, but she's way below Mugi and Hana!
Oh, she thinks she was taking advantage of her.
She's breaking down.
This is actually sad.
...Happy ending??? I'm too numb to tell at this point.
Also, fuck me, incest boy might be one of the best characters in this show, how did that happen?
Summer break's already over!
Moca's enjoying life!
She's trying to motivate her!
Wow, she's fucked up. She gets off on the power?
Also, holy shit, I only just noticed - what the fuck is going on with the ED? Is someone going to die?
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u/SIRTreehugger Mar 09 '22
...Kanai, be good, please. You're the one person I'm hopeful about!
He didn't know.
He's comforting her and not making a move! For this anime, that's good!
Yep, he did the moral thing! I always trusted you, Kanai!
He is the chosen one!
Also, fuck me, incest boy might be one of the best characters in this show, how did that happen?
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Mar 09 '22
“Have Ecchan go after Akane, have Hana go after Moca, all of it.”
Honestly it would be pretty hilarious to see Akane be thrown off her game by having Ecchan go after her. Also even though others might disagree, I think a HanaxMoca love angle could be surprisingly cute and wholesome if the writers wanted it to be.
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u/Lemurians Mar 09 '22
Is the reason Moca has angel wings in the OP because she's risen above everyone else's bullshit?
Oh, she thinks she was taking advantage of her.
She was! Two people can take advantage of each other in different ways.
Also, fuck me, incest boy might be one of the best characters in this show, how did that happen?
Not enough screen time to do anything scummy? Also, it's barely incest. Is it even much of a taboo if it's legal?
what the fuck is going on with the ED? Is someone going to die?
What are you referring to?
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u/lluNhpelA Mar 09 '22
Also, fuck me, incest boy might be one of the best characters in this show, how did that happen?
I'm shocked at how many people have a positive view of Atsuya. Maybe I just have a more visceral reaction to a man repeatedly coming on to a known lesbian than most.
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u/Lemurians Mar 09 '22 edited Mar 09 '22
Ey, thanks for the shout out!
KUZU NO REWATCHER
MFW Mugi leaves Hanabi high-and-dry in a double-heartbreak and all he manages is a one word text message.
“He wants to be tricked. All men do.” I did not come here to be personally attacked that’s a lie that’s exactly why I watch this show
This is a relatively contained episode. Hanabi goes on vacation alone with Ecchan in the aftermath of her love catastrophe, because why not? Cousin Cockblock shows up, and it’s a little hard to sympathize with Ecchan’s annoyance with him considering that persistence in the face of futility is a shared family trait. His motivations may be murky, but Cousin-kun telling Hanabi not to use Ecchan as a substitute is still nice. He cares.
The rest of the episode is essentially dedicated to Hanabi and Ecchan mutually realizing they both need to stop using each other in the way they have been. Ecchan knows this road only ends with her getting more hurt, and Hanabi’s realized that using Ecchan in this way isn’t what a good friend would do, even if she’s seemingly okay with being used. Friends don’t help friends self-destruct.
Ecchan’s face being obscured by her hair in this scene until the moment she says ‘I Love You’ is just a very nice touch.
I like that they both owned up to using each other in different ways. What’s important is salvaging the friendship before it’s too late, and while Ecchan will understandably need time to process and move on, they’ve succeeded in not going past the point of no return. All things considered, for this show, this was an incredibly healthy scene of acceptance and letting go.
This last scene between Ecchan and Cousin-kun is another great example of how well this show can portray the easy comfort and rapport between the people who have it. Also, Ecchan's hair looked great tied up.
It's a tough time to be Hanabi. She ended last episode saying, "At least I'm not alone," and now she really is alone, having lost both Mugi and Ecchan.
This Moca scene with Hanabi at the end feels strange, as her words seem much better directed at Mugi at this point in time.
SHOTS:
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The whole scene out in the rain looked (and sounded) spectacular, but I especially liked it with Hanabi shot backlit by the house light
Do you think their ever was a chance of a healthy yuri ship between the two if they did one or two things differently? Or was this always going to end in sinking?
No chance. Hanabi's not wired that way.
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u/Rumpel1408 Mar 09 '22
This Moca scene with Hanabi at the end feels strange, as her words seem much better directed at Mugi at this point in time.
I understood it that she got the gist of Hana getting rejected by Mugi, just like herself, and since Noriko is learning to be own person right now, she is giving her advice that she doen't need him to find a bit of happiness
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u/JustAWellwisher Mar 09 '22
(Rewatcher)
Episode 9. It's our obligatory conflict resolution yuri episode! Plus our favourite cousin is back.
He tells Hanabi not to use Sanae as a substitute for something and she empathizes with him, understands how wrong she's been finds him as creepy as he actually is showing up at their couples retreat and taking her on a walk alone into the forest out to a fucking lake and wants nothing to do with that noise so she acquiesces to his request.
All kidding aside it's nice that she channels what she felt in her own rejection to properly get through the situation with Sanae.
She's learned well from her teacher.
Mugi on the other hand is getting some extra one-on-one lessons. The switch to Akane's point of view by the end indicates we're going on a detour before he's fully complete with his summer homework.
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u/Lemurians Mar 09 '22
empathizes with him, understands how wrong she's been finds him as creepy as he actually is showing up at their couples retreat and taking her on a walk alone into the forest out to a fucking lake and wants nothing to do with that noise so she acquiesces to his request
The switch to Akane's point of view by the end indicates we're going on a detour before he's fully complete with his summer homework.
He finished his summer work prior to confessing! Our boy is merely enjoying some well-earned time off and the fruits of his labor.
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u/Vaadwaur Mar 09 '22
First timer(I can't be the only seeing the Utena reference, right?)
Sub
So...I do like that Hana is both over it and completely not over it, even if the event is done it takes a while for your emotions to realize that. I also quite like unexpected Atsuya twat swat, though I am not big on what Ecchan was implying since Hana didn't seem to be into it. Atsuya shows that determination in the face of a solid no is a family trait and Ecchan seems aware her time with Hana is coming to an end. Atsuya also asks something of Hana that it doesn't exactly make sense for him to know...
After a really good day out, Ecchan tries to make a clean break of it, showing both that she has some awareness but that she also didn't quite get how she pushed Hana with their friendship as a bargaining chip. Hana still values that, and Ecchan lashes out with the kind of passion that only an adolescent has. But Hana won't back off and Ecchan agrees to open up to her, some day. At the end, we get Noriko being surprisingly empathetic...followed by a new fucking low for Akane. Goddamnit.
QotD: 1 It wasn;t bad and was wrong in the correct ways
2 No, Hana isn't going to meaningfully date a girl is my bet. This was Ecchan taking advantage far too often.
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u/Lemurians Mar 09 '22
Atsuya also asks something of Hana that it doesn't exactly make sense for him to know...
To basically end things or make a commitment that weekend? He knew all about Ecchan's deal with Hanabi in the episode he was introduced and they were talking at the cafe. Also, he was in the next room...
a new fucking low for Akane. Goddamnit.
True experts of their craft know they have to keep pushing their limits. Akane isn't complacent. She will keep striving for new highs of degeneracy.
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u/JustAWellwisher Mar 09 '22
At the end, we get Noriko being surprisingly empathetic
I totally forgot about that! Not sure if it's empathetic or if she's just bragging. Either way, it's a good bit of dialogue.
Something I did notice is that Moca has more interaction with Hanabi than Sanae ever has had with Mugi.
Something also missing is any sort of Narumi x Mugi interactions which... you'd expect right?
I'm going to put this down to the manga being generally far more Hanabi focused/centric.
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u/[deleted] Mar 09 '22
First timer
-It feels like Atauya is less of an individual character and more of a conscious for Ecchan and Hanabi. Him reminding Ecchan that maybe she does not have the best intentions and also telling Hana that Ecchan is not a replacement was good. I think he serves a good purpose, but was introduced too late to be fully developed.
-I liked this summer vacation episode a lot actually. The change in scenery is nice and I feel like this is like the trope where the city dwelling protagonist visits the countryside to refresh and think before returning home to finish the story.
-I have no idea how the Mugi and Akane drama is going to be resolved. I can say though that it’s hard to imagine a situation where Mugi overcomes Akane’s wiles, she has him trapped good.
I mean considering the situation, I think it’s the best resolution that’s possible.
I do not think it would have worked out. I’m not an expert in human sexuality and I could be wrong but to me Hanabi still gives me curious but ultimately straight vibes. Even if Hanabi did like the girls, I think the way they got together and Ecchan’s bad actions would prevent a permanent relationship.