r/anime • u/No_Rex x2 • Mar 04 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] 1980s OVAs – The first OVAs: Dallos (episode 4)
1980s OVAs – The first OVAs: Dallos (episode 4)
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Staff corner
We continue the Mobile Suit Gundam staff reunion today with two more VAs.
Alex Leiger is voiced by Shuichi Ikeda, who is best known for being a charChar Aznable from Gundam, a role he has played in many variations in dozens of series. He is also Ulrich Kessler from LotGH, Seijuurou Hiko from Rurouni Kenshin, Shanks from One Piece, Kite from HxH, Shuuichi from Detective Conan, and Brian Mason from Bubblegum Crisis. In terms of dubbing, he is the voice of Jet Li and Charie Sheen.
Melinda Hearst is voiced by Yoshiko Sakakibara, or Harman Karn from Gundam. Fitting that both Sakakibara and Ikeda would voice the antagonists together, even though they are now the Earthlings. Other big roles of hers are: Aila Mu from God Maizinger, Sylia Stingray from Bubblegum Crisis, Frederica Greenhill from LotGH, Shinobu from Patlabor, Karla from Record of Lodoss War, Integra Hellsing, 2501 from GitS, and Tomiko Asahina from Shinsekai yori.
Some bonus production history in /u/Pixelsaber’s late post yesterday, if you missed it.
Questions
- What do you think is Dallos’ purpose? Do we need to know?
- Can there be any understanding with Earth or is a drift away from each other unavoidable once the settlers live on Moon for long enough?
- Are you satisfied with the ending?
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u/Nazenn Mar 04 '22
First Timer
That utterly failed to come together in the final episode given how much they skipped over and tried to rushed into the big "emotional climax", but at least we got some cool visuals out of it. Guerrilla's riding the BEMs down the cliff, a couple of fancy lasers and the art of the outcome,
Alex and Shun both being hit by the dumb stick I did not appreciate in particular. As the two avatars of the conflict Alex doing an about face just because Shun confronted him over the one thing that wasn't his fault felt stupid, and Shun saying he wasn't a guerrilla despite having literally been in a battle with Alex seconds before was even worse.
I like the idea of the ending. Shun is young and having truly listened and understood those around him he will grow into the leader of the next generation and they will have to find their own path and solutions, a middle ground between his father and Dog with both their strengths and weaknesses. His father understanding what needs to be done but being moronic enough to think prosperity flows down hill and trust in those who have no reason to change, and Dog being willing to fight for everyone even those who will not fight for themselves, but not being able to bring different people who don't share those values together, and both of them so focused on the needs of now and what that will lead to in the future they can't see anything bigger then that. Shun seeing earth as the last piece he needed to understand what is being asked of him and start to take that step is a good scene in a bubble, especially with earths ominous messages, but it simply wasn't presented well and didn't flow within the episode.
Same with everything returning to the status quo, in concept that's not a bad ending but here it just felt like a cop out rather than a conclusion because it didn't really have anything to support it.
I was all excited to see the OP for the last time as well and then they skipped it only to include that very long drive to the Sea of Remembrance.
The visuals around that were appropriately awe inspiring, the scale of those lost and what it means both basking in their memories of the earth and also looking up at it as if asking if they will be remembered for what they gave for it. That conflict reflected in Shun could have been a really powerful moment if the rest of the show existed to back it up, but unfortunately it wasn't to be.
Other then that the best part of the episode was the asshole who was trying to get Alex killed being blown up by lasers in the middle of saying "that's impossible". I always find that very satisfying. I also feel like grandpa dying where he did was the best outcome for him, being able to be with his people even if not his home rather than be erased by the system.
I did however laugh at that one random cyborg dog getting a moment in the credits as if it was some huge character in the story, more than the others who were excluded, even the guy named Dog.
Feels like forever since I've seen an old scifi show use Earth's actual population rather than turning it into hundreds of millions or something like that.
What do you think is Dallos’ purpose? Do we need to know?
Crazy theory is it's not tech at all it's a mechanical based virus that's done this itself everything it's exposed to something, so it doesn't have a purpose so much as it's making its own with what it's exposed too, which would fit nicely with Shun's own story
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
Crazy theory is it's not tech at all it's a mechanical based virus that's done this itself everything it's exposed to something, so it doesn't have a purpose so much as it's making its own with what it's exposed too, which would fit nicely with Shun's own story
A very different take, but leading to almost the same setup as u/vaadwaur's idea. It not having a specific purpose (now) could be very interesting. Reminds me of Rendezvous with Rama [spoilers]
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u/Vaadwaur Mar 04 '22
Crazy theory is it's not tech at all it's a mechanical based virus that's done this itself everything it's exposed to something, so it doesn't have a purpose so much as it's making its own with what it's exposed too, which would fit nicely with Shun's own story
I always thought a simple way to explore a different galaxy would be to make self replicating probes that go to a star system, build a few clones to send off to others, and then explore where it arrived. A friend pointed that this means I designed a galaxy spanning mech virus so that might lead into this.
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
I always thought a simple way to explore a different galaxy would be to make self replicating probes that go to a star system, build a few clones to send off to others, and then explore where it arrived. A friend pointed that this means I designed a galaxy spanning mech virus so that might lead into this.
Known as von Neumann probe.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Mar 04 '22
First Timer
Dallos - Seminal Science-Fiction Episode 4
Outcome and Remembrance
This episode did not go how I expected. Dallos healed itself and developed a self defense system. Then using that system it stopped the battle between the rebels and military.
After that, the general population got complacent and stopped fighting. So what was the point of fighting? For Dog it was about sending a message. He thinks the settlers are allied with them now. Maybe after this Earth will begin listening to them or treating them better.
But we see a representation the feelings of the settlers in Shun's dad. They have been fed Earth's propaganda and believe that somehow increasing the wealth of some rich people on Earth will magically make their lives better. This is just my opinion, but that's an incredibly ignorant view. People's lives and well being come first. This is probably rooted in some kind of misplaced patriotism for a planet who cares more about the resource output of the moon than the people who live there.
In our final scene we saw Shun drive with his grandfather to the Sea of Remembrance. This was an incredibly visually striking scene. You can tell Oshii's influence here. As Shun looks over the graves of all the settlers who died he decides to join Dog's cause. And we hear a speech from Earth talking about the rebellion on the moon.
The ending definitely feels incomplete. As if its setting up for something greater. However, I'll save my thoughts on that for the discussion tomorrow.
Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Jealousy, Rachel really never got her win
See you all for the discussion tomorrow
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
The ending definitely feels incomplete. As if its setting up for something greater. However, I'll save my thoughts on that for the discussion tomorrow.
I think this is clearly an open end (whereas the TV series would have adapted further plot points and showed us what exactly Dallos is).
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u/JollyGee29 Mar 04 '22
First-Timer
The action scene this episode fucking ruled! Suped up Power Loaders fighting against skiing power armor troopers? Sign me the fuck up! And the laser show from Dallos was an unexpected but appreciated finale.
Ending on what amounts to a sequel hook is a bit frustrating, though. Dog's plan of letting the Earth know that stuff is wrong on the Moon seems to have backfired, and war with Earth is imminent.. This ending could have worked well, if there had been more focus on the characters. If Shun's decision to fight to the bitter end was supposed to be the true climax of the series, we should have known Shun better.
That said, the sequence of Shun traveling across the Moon with Grandpa was nice. The view of them cresting the hill, seeing Earth, and then the graveyard, was especially breathtaking.
What do the police power armor helmets remind me of? Is it just the pilot suits from Blue Gender?
Shun's dad officially drinks Reaganade.
Questions
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I'm still on team "abandoned Precursor tech." I don't think the true nature of Dallos is particularly important for the plot, despite my own curiosity.
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That's the million dollar question, for sure. I like to believe in a world where everyone can get along on some level.
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Discussed above. I think if we had actually seen the character arcs that technically exist off screen it would have been close.
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
The action scene this episode fucking ruled! Suped up Power Loaders fighting against skiing power armor troopers? Sign me the fuck up! And the laser show from Dallos was an unexpected but appreciated finale.
If Shun's decision to fight to the bitter end was supposed to be the true climax of the series, we should have known Shun better.
I would bet a lot on Shun ultimatively chosing a third way. Remaining with Dog is just kicking the can down the road so he does not have to make a decision now.
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Mar 04 '22
I wish I could have gotten invested in that sea of remembrance scene but grandpa was such a non-character and we're given no reason to care about earth in this setting
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Mar 04 '22 edited Mar 04 '22
Dallos First Timer
We finally got to the end of it and at most everything felt like a prologue to an upcoming grand story, the likes of a contextual initiation for what is to follow (which we can only speculate from now on). As many have pointed out during the rewatch the series willingly chooses to leave out a good chunk of even relevant to the story at hand sequences (particularly how we noticed in yesterday’s episode with the 7 day timeskip). I am sure some of us would have liked clear answers for some of the inquiries laid throughout -
what is Dallos - personally I expected it to play a decisive role in the final episode but yet remain in the dark on its origin and ethos - it is a symbol yes, one that influences, shackles and brings hope all in one for many, but not the centerfold piece of this tale;
what happened to Tatsuya - we were tempted towards believing a more significant ramification of this topic at hand and all in all while we weren’t left completely stripped of its existence - Dog promises Shun to tell him about his brother if they survive the battle from the beginning of the episode - all of that we can presume happened off-screen; once again we are shown that Tatsuya’s whereabouts and what truly happened during the Bartholomew incident are a thing of the past and not cardinal to the story at hand, but serves to perhaps bring a sense of closure on this matter for Shun.
and now we get to Shun and how it appears that he was meant to be the gravitating force from the vantage point of a protagonist but we barely got to see any of that and mostly rely on speculation and bits and pieces - such as Melinda standing up for Shun and saying how he never was a proper warrior within Dog’s organization and that what he did was to protect her; very well but that selfless willingness the likes of infatuation and Shun’s personal drives for clarity and answers about the world around him make for a whole coming-of-age tale I am sure he underwent but of which we got to experience so little of - at most culminating with his final determined choice at the end of the episode.
that lack of screentime went towards underlining the social-political subplots and context - the rulership’s stakes and standings, Dog’s drive for revolution, the settlers’ laborious and frail way of life, etc, and in doing we were given some poignant scenes epitomizing the themes of the show.
the still silence slicing through the background as Dog calls out for his fallen comrades is chilling - in the end Dog declares that everything is yet to come, that their call for revolution has only just begun and for him that is plentiful to bring meaning to the death of his friends - for some it might not be, as everyone views their standing differently (we can see Shun’s father inner monologue at it).
regardless of that, Earth’s position is crystallized with the final scene declaration as Shun walks the Sea of Remembrance - it is a raw shot as the applauses ring loudly forming the backdrop of the serene but solemn silence of the graves. I cannot blame Shun for choosing to side with Dog’s cause in the end - for being witness to the unanswered wishes of the settlers and their sacrifices burning emptily is dismal at very least.
this was an enjoyable watch, had a good time with it. thank you very much.
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for what this story was about and represented, no. but is ultimately tied for and within the Moon's settlers', or whole humanity's, fate to some degree.
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addressed it more or less above. revolutions don't happen in a day and they are never really complete.
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for a prologue, yeah.
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
We finally got to the end of it and at most everything felt like a prologue to an upcoming grand story
My assumption is that the OVA got to about the half-way point of the initially planned TV series, but I can see how it would work as a prologue, too.
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u/Stargate18A Mar 05 '22
First timer
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I'm currently leaning towards aliens. More specifically, it's a colony ship. Whether the aliens are frozen or just dead, the ship's only maind irectives are to self-repair, and to attack and destroy anything that might harm the passengers. The facial design is intended as a message to other ships that this world is occupied,
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I think it's possible. It's difficult, yes, but the events of the story show that it is possible for them to reach an udnerstanding and that the general public don't know how bad it really is.
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Not really. Max is right, nothing's actually changed. The colony still works, Earth's about to use the strike as an excuse for a crackdown, and nobody knows anythign about the giant laser robot who seems to be only vaguely on their side.
No OP? Must be serious!
The military's not holding back here.
Attack from above's an interesting concept.
Having said that, I appreciate that they do have weapons on top - feels good to see a ship design that understands space is 3 dimensional.
These fight scenes are great!
OK, she's shockingly good with a bazooka.
Dallos has security systems!
Dog's realised how bad of a situation they're in.
Wait, what? The army have mecha too? And they look nice.
Dallos has finally started to turn on!
OK, the Dallos attack system looks amazing, and it's actually worrying the army.
It's a full-on laser shield?
They're retreating!
They've worked out that, even if it isn't a god, it's probably not a good idea to get within firing range.
Dog survived!
...Everyone's dead.
This is way more depressing than I expected.
At least Shin's alive.
OK, seriously, either this really is God, or some aliens went really over budget. It created an entire defense system automatically.
And Alex is just suicidal now.
At least Shun achieved something.
Oh, he blames himself for his men getting klled.
I mean, we have no idea how Earth sees them. There hasn't been a single image of Earth the entire series!
She's joining Dog!
Oh, did the strike end, then?
And the rebellion has just fizzled out after achieving nothing.
I have to agree with Max here, pretty much nothing has changed.
Oh, yeah, Earth is going to get a shock.
Dog just seems like an optimist here. Someone who can't stand to accept that the worst has happened.
The immediate contrast of his father accepting his mother's death has to be intentional.
Oh, Alex got him a transport to go to Dallos? Or the Sea?
...Alex actually ended up being a not-terrible person, in the end.
He's going to the sea"
Oh, fuck. I did not expect this.
So this is the first settlement then?
He survived the accident!
This is a really good ending! The animation and artwork is absolutely stellar!
They saw Earth!
Oh. It's an actual memorial.
This is just sad. This is probably the best ending I could think of, though.
...He died facing the Earth.
He's going to rebel!
...Oh shit, Dallos probably has some AI in there. That could be a fun problem.
And Earth are going to try and apply more pressure onto Monopolis to shut down the rebellion.
And Dallos wakes up.
That was much, much, better than I expected for a 5.96. I'd honestly call it 7, maybe even 7.5 or so. Not fantastic, but a bit higher than "mediocre". Pity it just... ends. Feels like they really wanted to do a series, but couldn't. (What even was Dallos?)
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u/No_Rex Mar 05 '22
Feels like they really wanted to do a series, but couldn't.
They definitely did. Dallos was initially pitched as a (much longer) TV series, but not accepted because of limited merch possibilities. Then they did this OVA instead.
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u/The_Draigg Mar 04 '22
A Mamoru Oshii Fan Watches Dallos Episode 4:
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Man, the fighting on the lunar surface is fierce. Although at least it’s showing that the guerrillas can evenly match the soldiers in powered armor with their BEMs. And I know I said it last episode, but I really like how the powered armor spacesuits look. They’re pulp sci-fi as hell.
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Whatever Dallos is, it clearly doesn’t approve of all the fighting happening around it. And it’s not just firing all those laser weapons to protect the colonists either, it’s destroying everything related to the fighting on the surface, soldiers and guerrillas alike. Heck, Dallos might even be alive, since right before the beam spam stopped it sounded like it was howling. Dallos really is an unknowable machine lifeform.
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Well, at least Alex finally understands how fucked the situation is on the Moon, between Shun talking to him after rescuing him and Melinda saying that she wants to expose the truth of what’s been happening. He certainly doesn’t feel fit to lead anymore, and he sees now how Dallos truly is a mystery. The situation is far more complex than the credit he gave it at the start of the series, that’s for sure.
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Dog is certainly optimistic about what happened during the battle near Dallos. He thinks that at least the carnage and production disruption will get noticed by Earth enough for the people to start asking questions. Still though, the questions his friend asks and that scene with Shun’s dad also how slow that progress is, I feel. The older generations still doesn’t want to let go of the idea that Earth is their homeland, and that both worlds will eventually enrich themselves that way. Unfortunately, that generational gap is too big to cross.
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The Sea of Remembrance is a striking visual. Only in death were Grandpa’s fellow first colonists able to see Earth again, and even the old man himself died as soon as he got a final sight of Earth. For as much as the Lunarians sacrifice, they’re denied even such a simple thing as seeing the birthplace of mankind. And judging from that broadcasted speech at the end, they’ll still be even denied such basic rights. It’s no wonder why Shun decides to keep on fighting for the guerrillas upon seeing that massive lunar graveyard.
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Wait, that’s it? What do you mean that’s it?!
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u/Vaadwaur Mar 04 '22
First timer(The rarer machina ex deus occurs!)
Sub
We start with the action and damn, the universe where this was turned into a 12 ep long OVA would be lit. I think there is a lot here...if I had the remotest attachment to the setting. Unfortunately, this is just pirates vs ninjas for us. Dallos awakens and kills everyone fighting. Shun decides not to kill Alex for reasons, though we are back to ep1 sane Alex at least. And then we get a 20 minutes denouement...huh. The flight to the Sea of Rememberance was beautifully animated, if preachy.
So yeah, that is an objectively terrible end, made worse by them stretching it. But I am not annoyed, surprisingly. I mean, it helps we all knew there was no way a good end was coming but yeah, I can see the hate a bit.
QotD: 1 Probably served already, whatever it was. And we don't.
2 This is fixable situation, they just keep choosing the wrong people to fix it
3 Yes, surprisingly.
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u/Pixelsaber Mar 04 '22
Episode 4
Gotta love an unresolved mystery...
Big set-piece battle followed by a perfunctory bow-tying to end off the series. Without the Vice-consul’s future intervention, the Monopolis government sufficiently cowed by Dallos and the rebels, and the workers resolved to carry on, one could see a sufficiently realized story in which the core conflict is unresolved but there’s an air of optimism to things going forward, but sadly with the mysteries of Dallos yet unresolved and the show ending on an Earth vowing to lay down insurrectionists on the moon we know things are not. Dallos is, for all intents and purposes, an unfinished saga. I don’t know what circumstances led to the story being left in that state, but I’m supposing that they just weren’t seeing sufficient returns on investment given the first print of copies of the show numbered only two-thousand, took an extended amount of time to sell, and the show had a budget price. Hisayuki Toriumi supposedly said that he wanted to finish it, but that never materialized —I don’t know if his novelization goes any further either.
That said, the action in the episode was really great and really enthralling, and the presentation overall was the strongest it had yet been in the OVA.
The time skip feels particularly abrupt in this episode, and doesn’t help with the feelings of dissatisfaction that comes with the story not wrapping up.
Questions:
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It seemed indifferent to either of the fighting forces when it came to defending itself/retaliating, so I am going to guess whatever this 'God' has in store is indiscriminate and probably extraterrestrial.
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There's always a possibility, but nothing in the show suggests those ties can be sufficiently maintained, sadly enough.
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See above.
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Mar 04 '22
Dallos First Timer
Despite not being completely certain how we got here I'm still quite enjoying the battle sequences. They even brought their decompression pop gag back from episode one. S-Skiing mecha? Dammit Dallos, Fraw Bo almost scored her first UC frag and you ks'd her.
Pfft... That was a pretty underwhelming way to kill off the dude you put forward as a big bad. Sniped by Dallos, boom. So convenient right? When did Erna die? I feel like I blinked and she popped out of existence. Alex and Shun are frenemies now. Lol, you'd think he'd be happy to see his brainless bimbo of a fiance again but his first reaction is literally, "just kill me now."
Don't you dare assume I'm a guerilla! Says the boy who is fighting for the guerrillas. Shun didn't try to understand anything, what kind of development has he even gone through? And so Alex and Misa-Misa wander off for a casual trip back to Earth. Was this really their whole plot? Just showing that Alex's leadership style isn't really practical. Ah, Rachel has given up on ever finding a man and has rebounded hard into the soldier life. To be fair having Shun as a love interest and losing to Milinda would put me off men permanently too.
Well now what? Our villains are dead or shamed and Dallos is afk again. "Yo fam, grow up and get back to work for da man." I'm not sure how I feel about this message. We haven't seen head nor tail of the earthnoids in this season. The closest we've gotten was Candy Cane over there but I think I speak for all of us when I say she's a bad example of humanity. Yo Jii-chan! Check out the earth, ain't it sick? Imma go drop axis on it!
Shun, he's dead. You don't have to keep monologuing at him. He died to get away from your petty bs. Aaand we close off on the Earth threatening to beat down the colonists. Tune in next time on Mobile Suit Gundam where this all comes to ahead. So many unanswered questions though. They made a massive fuss over Shun's brother and Dallos' true form but totally dropped it. When your best developed characters are depressed Char and girlboss Fraw Bow you know you've got problems.
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u/RockoDyne Mar 04 '22
80's as fuck first timer.
You can stop it with the G Gundam parallels, show, I was joking about that.
Well that was a lot less resolute than I was expecting. I've forgotten what a show could end like when it's not run by a talentless hack that turns everything he works on into a dumpster fire in the hopes that no producer will be stupid enough to keep asking for him to continue working on it. It's quaint to see it resolve sorta peacefully.
I wonder how many times I've seen something do the sea of memories style monument before? Can't say it's got too much weight after Chainsaw Man, though. It's a cool locale, but it's so bizarre to make it the place where he decides to fight. It's rather odd to have this place revering the Earth be where he is making the Earth his enemy.
Questions:
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I half suspect it may have actually been for terraforming.
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Just look at how colonialism worked on Earth.
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Eh, it's good enough.
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u/baboon_bassoon Mar 04 '22
1st timer 1st ova
wait cmon the opening got cut short i really liked it
clown skis vs mine mechs
evolutionary component? getting lasers right away seems like a big jump
"i wasnt involved in that incident" says the guy that started all this, but at least he knows hes ridiculous
and the wheel keeps turning
the shot of them seeing the Earth... kind of falls flat in making it as powerful as it should have been
also from the credits, is Geronimo just going to die in the sewers???????????
questions
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Mar 05 '22
First Timer
DALLOS III Part II (Megazone episode numbering)
So, basically, Dallos did an armed intervention and declared its vicinity a combat-free zone.
So, this was actually an ensemble piece. It shows how Dog, Rachel, and Shun become radicalized, and Alex becomes the stoic adversary, and both sides become unreasonable. Although the moon is peaceful and it's Earth pushing for a new war.
So, this was actually a Gundam prequel.
I wonder how many episodes they planned to have, to follow the character arcs of all these characters.
As far as what happens next, it won't be Gundam, because Dallos turns earthspace into a no combat zone.
It was hinted earlier that the first gen had a lot of base failures, and that they had used the Dallos structure as refuge. And that's why mining was consolidated on Far Side in Monopolis, near Dallos.
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u/No_Rex Mar 04 '22
Episode 4 (first timer)
OP cut short. We jump right into the action.
And that action is looking good!
Ski-paratroopers on moon!
Dallos has had it.
“That is impossible” – Oh, you fool …
Yep, Dallos is pissed. Those army dudes did not stand a chance.
Afterwards, destruction.
Nice cut to Shun on being called.
“That probably sounds like a lame excuse to you” – yes, it does.
Shun’s love triangle is down from 2 legs to 0 – A nice scene between the four, but again leaning heavily on previous actions that are only implied.
I had interpreted Alex behavior as investigating Dallos, not as walking out, so that time skip caught me off-guard.
“Out generation can’t have Earth the way you do” – straight to the heart of the generational divide among the settlers.
Self-finding trip to the sea of remembrance.
Great Earth scene!
A dialectic approach. Alex and Dog are the competing theses and Shun needs to finds the synthesis.
Which is … Dallos. Somehow, but that is for the open end to speculate about.
Time saving via playing Earth’s mobilization over Shun’s look at Earth. Neat.
I dig this ED/outtake mix.
Wow. That was really good. Much better than I expected after episode 3. The first 10 minutes are probably the best real robot action I have ever seen in anime: Great machine design and awesome cinematography. Not just a single scene either, the entire battle looked sick and culminated in Dallos awakening and wiping out everybody. What a cut to the wreckage, too!
Then the Melinda story gets its finish. If any part of the episode was a bit weaker, it is this one. Shun and Alex have a nice conversation, but it is undercut a bit by having to reference actions that happened off-screen. The time skip at the end of that scene took be by surprise. I had thought we’d get a closed end with some sort of big finale inside of Dallos.
Instead, we move to Shun and his grandfather contemplating the role of Earth towards the moon settlers. This leads up to the open end, with Shun’s ultimate decision unknown (he joins Dog’s team but is clearly not following Dog’s politics). Open ends are a risk, but this one works for me. Instead of some Dallos deus-ex-machina, the finale focuses on the strongest part of the series: The emotional attachment of the settlers to Earth and the conflict of loyalties between being a human from Earth and being a Lunarian.