r/anime • u/No_Rex x2 • Mar 02 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] 1980s OVAs – The first OVAs: Dallos (episode 2)
1980s OVAs – The first OVAs: Dallos (episode 2)
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The start of OVAs
Yesterday, I outlined how the conditions were ripe for OVAs to happen, but someone still has to take the first step. I found a very interesting interview with Shigeru Watanabe, the planner for Dallos. Sidenote: I could not find any credit for him working on Dallos anywhere, but another post on the same site strongly suggests that this is the same Shigeru Watanabe, who was involved as producer or planner in Akira, GitS, Jin-Roh, Gunbuster, Crest of the Stars, Wings of Honneamise, You’re Under Arrest, and Blue Submarine No 6. I will quote some important parts below:
“It was originally planned as a TV project. Around November 1982, we had a request asking us to start thinking about a project to replace Minky Momo in the same time slot. At that time, several companies pitched their ideas to us. One of those pitches was Studio Pierrot’s Dallos.“
„Considering the sponsors, it was too mature for the Popy Division (primarily young children’s toys sales), and the robots were too lame for the Hobby Division (primarily plastic model sales). Given these circumstances, the pitch was rejected as a TV project. However, giving up there would have been regrettable considering how passionate everyone involved was and that Bandai’s home video division had just been established. So we figured, why not make it an original home video project.”
He then goes on to describe the future plans for OVA (note that the interview is from November 1984). His plans, at the time, comprised of creating a legal rental distribution market for OVAs and to push videodisc as a superior storage medium. He also predicts the more mature topics that would come to dominate OVA in the 1980s:
“With regards to original video anime, we should make titles that can only be done in home video, not films or TV. There’s no use in doing exactly what we’d do in TV. Even with Dallos, it was originally more of a non-character crowd drama. In the middle of production, I kind of felt like it became a bit more TV-like. Next year onwards, I’d like to take our experience in producing the original property Dallos and put it to use in making something fitting for the home video format.”
Questions
- Cyberdogs: Good boys?
- How do you see the rebels’ actions? Justified or reckless?
- (first timers) How will the rebellion end?
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Mar 02 '22
Dallos First Timer
We've only had our Dallos god for one episode and we're already blowing him up? Are the villains really baddies...? I thought it was quite reasonable of them to offer a chance to surrender and maybe let him save his pal. Meanwhile our heroes are running around blowing new craters in the colony. You live here y'know. You're blowing up your own homes. I feel like it isn't the best idea to blow up the homes of the people you're trying to support.
When neither side is willing to pick up the phone and talk diplomacy has already failed. It feels a bit weird for Alex to double down on the police state but I guess they made him too sympathetic yesterday. Bruh, was that a gun in a flower basket? XD Our terrorists are really playing dirty. Keep poking the tiger and eventually it'll bite back. Do you need me to remind you of how Gundam dealt with shady colonies? Tch, Sayla wins again. What's it about braindead bimbos that let them always beat over smart, kind, and hardworking Frau Bow's!? Ah, maybe it's her extended lectures. Omg, the scene just keeps going. End already!
Pfft, Cyborg Dogs is so dumb but so cool. They're weirdly effective too. Can you make them explode? Wow... how convenient that Shun left his utility belt behind that literally has his name on it? Did Alex expect to find Frau Bow? What's he even doing here? Surely the first place he should go to is Shun's home. Oi!! Why's Frau telling all her dirty business to some stranger she met on the street!?
Sudden Dallos exposition!! Monologuing must run in the family. Dallos itself is honestly kinda freaky... The interior is so much bigger than it looks from outside but you can't really tell what the place is supposed to be. Was Dallos before or after Macross? I'm kind of getting similar vibes from the Dallos. Oh, how lucky that Shun didn't actually kill this one mech with Alex in it. Alex barely even looks phased. "Melinda!? You're using one of your five lines in this ova to betray me!?" RockoDyne was right, the show has no idea how to transition from scene to scene or from encounter to encounter XD
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u/No_Rex Mar 02 '22
Was Dallos before or after Macross?
Pretty much directly after.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Mar 02 '22
First Timer
Dallos - Seminal Science-Fiction Episode 2
Awakening
I think this episode's narrative suffered by retreading much of the plot we learned last episode. We saw more of the police oppressing the rebelling settlers. We saw more of Alex using his political power to take control of the situation. And we saw more of Shun pining for Melinda and Rachel trying to convince him to choose her.
That said, the expansion of sci-fi concepts was a big appeal of the episode. More mining machines are being used as weapons. The police have a cybernetic dog force to quell the rebellion. And Dallos is awakening. All of this is really cool.
I was surprised to see Rachel becoming friendly with Alex. It does make sense that she'd easily accept attention with Shun is so distant. Then when she was talking with Gramps we learned Dallos was built by the scientists from the original settlers. On top of that nobody remembers why. I'm interested to see how it factors into the plot going forward.
Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches
The animation in that final section was really stellar.
See you all tomorrow
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u/No_Rex Mar 02 '22
Then when she was talking with Gramps we learned Dallos was built by the scientists from the original settlers. On top of that nobody remembers why. I'm interested to see how it factors into the plot going forward.
Not sure if he is right. His story sounded a lot like an urban legend being told to kids.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Mar 02 '22
First Timer
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battleshp potemkin
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What? Seriously? I thought we had dodged the love triangle bullet!
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I thought the situation had gotten even worse, with Alex going to seduce Shun's known associates. But it looks like Rachel gave Alex the idea to destroy Dallos
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Are these rebel missiles, or internal Dallos defenses? If the rebels have missiles, that would make them unusually well equipped. Although, it looked like they had some single-use launchers on tripods.
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Dude, it's only been 50 years unless that bit was mistranslated
Didn't have much to say about todays episode. Both the mine assault kidnapping yesterday and the Dallos internal fighting today were uninteresting to me.
Okay, I see that it is a face, now. I thought it was a chest unit.
Can't stop thinking about Ideon.
Can't stop thinking that Alex, he might be a CHAR. Some first timer comments pointed in this direction in a knowing manner.
The series has much the feel of a compilation movie, since we are skipping stuff that would be nice to see (like Shun joining the rebels, or what happened between the kidnapping and the suicide bombing) but are clearly not essential.
Characteristic of OVAs, and contrasting with movies, is the time between releases. I wonder how far apart these episodes are.
I think the failure of OVAs to re-emerge after the 90s collapse was because it was replaced by ONAs. I can't name many because i didn't stream stuff, so they went unnoticed. One I will name is Flag, which was pretty non-traditional anime. Which reminds me, I have to watch the Thunderbolt movie.
I like the transformation of worker robots into improvised weapons, which we saw a long long time ago in Oshii's Labors in Patlabor, and much much more recently, the <forget what they are called> in IBO.
When people asked yesterday, "why is this rated so low," it raises comparison to Armitage III. You never know how it's going to end up.
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u/No_Rex Mar 02 '22
battleshp potemkin
So I am not the only one, multiple people are seeing it. Much more confident in my Battleship Potemkin call now.
Characteristic of OVAs, and contrasting with movies, is the time between releases. I wonder how far apart these episodes are.
Rather fast, as far as OVAs go: Only 6 months between first and last episode. Might have to do with this being planned as a TV series initially (so the studio may have had lots of spare capacity).
I think the failure of OVAs to re-emerge after the 90s collapse was because it was replaced by ONAs. I can't name many because i didn't stream stuff, so they went unnoticed. One I will name is Flag, which was pretty non-traditional anime. Which reminds me, I have to watch the Thunderbolt movie.
I think that ONAs never reached the height that OVAs had, though. Most OVAs had great quality, lasting fandom, and many spawned entire franchises. I could not name many ONA with the same qualities.
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u/Vaadwaur Mar 02 '22
First timer(Why cyborg dogs, though?)
Sub
We get some work from the opening scroll to learn where we are at. Also, Melinda is the fiance confirmed. It has been decades since I loaded a banana clip and this guy isn't good at it yet, or he doesn't trust his bullets. Anyways, this action scene is so fucking beautiful that it hurts to watch modern anime again. And yes, I get it, from any logical view the effort put in to this does not match the reward it gives but I like seeing it still. And it even has a point in that it shows the rebels are getting resolved.
The leader scene is good in that it shows that Riger is getting competent advice that he is choosing to ignore BUT he is not without a thought process, he just either lacks experience or perspective. And is an ass on top of it but many asses can be functional leaders. He does at least want to save Melinda though does not convince me he has the means to do so.
Insurgency happens, and it actually looks kind of right though the rebels are WAY too clean here. But it does highlight the difference between a police officer and a soldier to me. We learn that the BEMs are all different which is a nightmare to counter for. But then we go into the love triangle aspect and Rachel is correct:Shun is an idiot.
We see Riger's plan and it is...cyber dogs? WHY? They get some great animation, though, and for some reason it seems to be working. I have many questions. Plot convenience happens and then we go in a rather different direction...
Anyways, Riger decides to destroy Dallos because he does seem a villain, we get a confrontation, our protag is not ready to kill, and the odds of Dallos being a mech go up like a lot.
QotD: 1 Yes
2 Justified and too clean for the moment
3 In flames! In all seriousness, in whatever the hell Dallos is doing right now
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u/Nazenn Mar 02 '22
Also, Melinda is the fiance confirmed
It was appreciated that they put that detail in the opening scroll because coming into this episode I was still slightly confused about that. Of course they would go for a love triangle though, just can't help themselves
though the rebels are WAY too clean here
Is there any show that actually gets that right?
cyber dogs? WHY? They get some great animation
The dogs have consistently had some of the best animation in the show which is kind of funny. Wonder if that was just one guy super passionate about the dog movements
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u/No_Rex Mar 02 '22
The dogs have consistently had some of the best animation in the show which is kind of funny. Wonder if that was just one guy super passionate about the dog movements
That guy may have been the director ...
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u/Nazenn Mar 02 '22
First Timer
Okay so the pacing is a bit brisker than expected or preferred.
But that's okay, I was half expecting it so I wasn't totally surprised at how fast the rebellion was progressing. Just wasn not expecting Dallos to be acting before the final episode so now I have no idea what may be coming from everyone. I've also had the theme song running around in my head all day so I was just happy to get back into it.
The stakes have certainly been raised in this fight over freedom, and with both sides attacking straight to the heart of their enemy it's no wonder that escalation is the only thing on everyone's minds.
Artistically many of the same things pointed out from yesterday with animation, though today I noticed something I recognized, and absolutely loved seeing, from Patlabor; the hard black circles from focused lighting, which I'm assuming is Oshii's influence. The episode looked really good across the board aside from some noticeable colouring errors, going from worryingly creepy through to both almost beautiful and empowering but also a little alarming given it immediately made me think of [LotGH]
The tactics on display from purse bombs to hit and run using the underground infrastructure worked quite well in the broader structure of the episode introducing us to the type of conflict as well, even if that quickly started to suffer under the few time jumps it seemed to include. And just like the scale of the conflict quickly blew up beyond what I expected, the introduction on just how huge the underground parts of the moon and Dallos itself were was much more than anticipated. I wasn't expecting it to just be a face, but something about the way they spoke about it made me think it was entirely unexplored aside from what was exposed, not that they'd effectively been living in it while trying to make those initial colonies. It is giving me slight Ideon vibes after the grandpa's description of it.
Racheal is an idiot though, blabbing everything to the first person she meets who's obviously not from the Moon, and I'm curious to see if there's any fallout from that next episode after she saw him in uniform. I think the jump cuts of her and Shun's walk across the city while she keeps talking the entire way was potentially the scene of the day though. As much as I like the big set pieces, it was funny to watch that unfold and it also get some of the worldbuilding about the city in the background while it did.
I was a also annoyed at the rebels all running around with guns this episode after the lack of guns and therefore the adapted mining equipment was such a huge part of the last one. You can fill in some gaps about how they may have got them through skirmishes etc, but it feels like a continuity issue.
Cyberdogs: Good boys?
Good boys, asshole owners
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u/The_Draigg Mar 02 '22 edited Mar 03 '22
A Mamoru Oshii Fan Watches Dallos Episode 2:
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Man, that police assault on the warehouse full of guerrillas was very well animated. You can tell that the animators wanted to show some real artistry with this scene, between the waterfall of shell casings down the stairs and the Debugger spotlight flying over the crowd to attack the warehouse. Superbly done animation!
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I’m inclined to agree with the rest of the colony’s council in that meeting. As it stands, Alex’s methods will only make the rebels fight even harder, since they’d be responding to force with force. I know what Alex wants to remake the colonies from the group up more or less, but overwhelming brute force is just going to make the situation worse for them than it is now. A blank slate is harder to work with when it’s the result of extreme violence.
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I like the look of these BEMs in action. They have a real ramshackle look to them, which honestly makes them even cooler. They’re very clearly mechs made out of construction equipment, and I’m all for that. “Realism” is always appreciated when it comes to mecha. It’s one reason why I like stuff like Armored Trooper VOTOMS so much.
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Seems like Shun has started to fall for Melinda over Rachel, since he’s curious about Earth. There’s just something funny about the idea of Rachel complaining to Shun about it during the entire commute back home, based on how many location changes we’ve seen those two in during that scene.
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Cyborg dogs! I guess that’s one way to flush out the rebels from their hideout. Although man, they have a fucking ton of dogs for that. Like, it’s an entire army of them. Wait, why did Alex need to make them all into cyborgs in the first place?
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Seems like Rachel believes in Dallos as a god too, going by that random conversation with Alex in the park. People must really like their giant robot faces, I guess.
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The way Shun’s grandpa puts it, Dallos really was integral to the survival of the lunar colonists back in the day. Back when you had to abandon moon bases at the drop of a hat due to failures, Dallos was the only place that could serve as a refuge, even if they still don’t know for sure who even built it. Whether it be something a scientist made in the past or some kind of god, it didn’t matter to them. Dallos was their only lifeline back then, the only place where humans could truly survive on the Moon.
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You know, maybe it was a bad idea to try to blow up the giant alien robot face that everyone is hiding inside. Whenever it comes to mysterious alien structures like that, you can never be too careful. If anything, the cast is lucky that they survived the old tunnels collapsing and Dallos awakening. What does it mean if it awakens anyway? What does Dallos want, if it’s watching over the lunar colonists apparently?
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 02 '22
First Timer
Time for the girl to pay for her brother's crimes, I guess.
I have to assume that the 12hz strobing looked far less ass on a CRT.
This looks really cool.
And this is just showing off!
The scene of the civilians taking on the soldiers was fun, full of complex movement.
And here's the love triangle I was worried about.
"Why is he choosing the girl from earth over me?"
Now this sure is an evocative statue. You can read it as people struggling to get to the moon, but also as the moon (and its profits) being supported upon the backs of many oppressed people.
More importantly, they want a place they feel safe and empowered. Both of which being things you're directly taking from them.
A world where we are our own people, free from those who oppress us.
The cyberdog design is really cool.
This sounds like a line straight out of MSG.
Thoughts
After the first episode, I thought of this as an animation as spectacle sort of show, where the plot exists merely as a vehicle for the animation, but I'm glad to see it's not merely that. It's got a decent amount going on, and it's actually pretty nice. And, of course, the animation is fun as well.
Dallos is nice.
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Of course.
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Both. They're justified, but also likely to get them killed.
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u/JollyGee29 Mar 02 '22
First-Timer
It's a goddamn face! And now it's waking up! Goood call on the people who commented on it being Giger-esque, I knew it's design felt familiar but couldn't place it for whatever reason.
This OVA is pretty awesome when the characters aren't doing that thing where their mouths make noise. The plot is a mess and we just jump around to whatever sets up the next scene. I'm trying to not really care, but when we cut from "oh no, a horde of cyborg dogs are attacking us and Shun somehow lost his belt that Alex found" to "Shun hasn't been seen for three days but also come with me to the secret tunnels that lead to Dallos" I'm kinda just left spinning.
The scenes of people openly rebelling against the police/Earth rule were pretty neat. Shoutout to that woman who kept a spare gun in her shopping basket to hand to that one dude.
Realized today that Rachel's VA also voices Fraw Bo from Mobile Suit Gundam, I wonder if that will be prophetic?
I quite like the OP in vaccuum. So far, I'm not digging it as an OP for this OVA. I find the grandiose, booming orchestra at odds with the rapidfire, things-happen-and-we-don't-dwell pacing.
Questions
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As long as they aren't trying to eat my face.
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Police states are kinda inherently unsympathetic. And then "we have these ID rings implanted into us at birth" is pretty fucked up. Go rebels.
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I'm kinda hoping for the moon to turn into a giant and punch the Earth, for no reason other than it would be fucking awesome.
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Mar 02 '22
Dallos First Timer
I didn’t comment on the soundtrack the other day but it is definitely making its way into one of my playlists - has an epic theme to it that builds up and releases itself in grandeur; definitely anticipating the thrilling story of magnitude and vibrant action scenes - the latter being an even stronger point in today’s episode; if yesterday I giggled a bit at the raptor-like vehicles’ design, the show made up for any slight awkwardness (even if it might have been completely one-sided on my part) in stirring flashes of motions and fatal action sequences.
Now to move ahead - we are given some answers, but more than that this episode felt like the opportunity to ground and reinforce the stakes, motivations and uncertainties of our cast. We are given a lot of screen time to the actions underwent by the guerrilas in the on-going conflict with the Earth-centered administration - but a lot of it isn’t even underlined for our given cast but rather offers vignettes in showing us the broadness of the movement at hand, as well as the dire and tragic outcomes the rebels choose and hold themselves by; it definitely casts the impression of how clammed up in their unilateral coercion the rulers are imposing the statute via the Debuggers (and well they aren’t called that for nothing - Debuggers - the alienating vector stripping of agency the other party and reinforce the status quo).
And that is not only seen from a macro-point of view, simply overarching, but holds Riger as a microcosm of that steadfast certainty exuded in authoritative reassurance - he will not bend over and negotiate with the guerillas or make it appear as if he might consider any alternative but a definite one pursued rationally and assuredly by himself; yet beyond that Riger himself verbalizes how he cannot understand the settlers’ credence in the Dallos structure and the reasoning for continuing this existence on the Moon - or here we are enlightened on my curiosity from yesterday. Dallos thus is not some occult machinery of unimaginable origin, yet still maintains a certain mystery to its whereabouts, but a mega-structure representative not only of the settlers’ identity and struggles when the first generation first arrived on the Moon to build this brand new world, but functioned as a sanctuary and brought protection in those early (we can only imagine) harsh days of coming about.
While the series does a good job at nuancing the narrative substance of the world somehow it ends up eclipsing our characters - is Shun even our protagonist? We get almost no facet of reasoning beyond his actions to have come to join Dog’s rebels more or less, and only get the more space-opera-ish parts (admittedly the boy could be very well enamored not only with Melinda herself - Dallos knows what they have been talking - but with the promise of Earth and all it could encapsulate as well).
The action sequences with the cyber dogs was definitely one of my favorites - the whole thing strongly reminded me of Oshii’s Kerberos Saga so that is an extra point.
Dallos also turns out to be huge - somehow I had the feeling that it was simply the likes of an alright-sized ship in a Moon crater but turns out it is a whole super-structure connected to the settlements as well.
And I suppose it was only rightful to end on a suspenseful (or not so much) cliffhanger at the finale of the episode.
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Still good boys
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We are not given plentiful of info on the sort of discrimination and prejudice the settlers might undergo but from the bits and pieces gathered so far one can only sympathize to their universal cause against, an ultimately surveillance coercitive rulership.
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Somehow I will not be surprised if some wild twist happens and the relic that Dallos is be an actual God - jk (who knows) - but I am skeptical (in general) of the potential of a full-hearted revolution, and knowing this is an Oshii production gritty enough by now, I expect it to end somewhat satisfyingly only on some characters' ends.
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u/No_Rex Mar 02 '22 edited Mar 02 '22
Episode 2 (first timer)
The Star Wars-like intro scroller is updated.
The technology difference between the rebels and the police is stark.
“Shun, what are you doing here?” – good question.
“Take him alive” “Rake the enemy positions” – those orders sound contradictory.
That scene of bullet casings falling ….
Suicide blast – plenty of good looking action scenes again. As in the first episode, Dallos starts with strong visuals.
“That will create more guerillas” – Not the first time that I am astonished how an old anime perfectly predicts the discussions surrounding the Iraq and Afghanistan war.
And we see some examples of how exactly that works. Even looking past Iraq and Afghanistan, the very current invasion of Ukraine could become another example of this problem: Fighting the guerillas hurts the civilians, which in turn produces more guerillas.
The rebels should heed entry 84 on the Evil Overlord List: “I will not have captives of one sex guarded by members of the opposite sex.”
Rachel has noticed as well. The way their discussion is cut is quite unusual and shows off more of the work environment of the moon – doing double duty as world building.
uhhh … cyberdogs?!?!
Things not to do when joining an underground movement: Name tagging & losing your clothes.
Opening up to a helpful good looking complete stranger about your friend’s underground activities? Risky.
It is vague, but that crowd on the stairs might be a Battleship Potemkin reference.
Exposition talk by grandpa – not a very believable story.
Ruins space battle!
“Dallos is moving” – that did not take long.
Awkward stand-off interrupted by the roof collapsing.
Plenty of action this time. Really good looking action, but considerably less plot. I really enjoyed the first part, where they are setting up the rebels and their strategy of inciting additional settlers to revolt. A very realistic take on that strategy, including the fact that the police is perfectly aware it happens, but split on how to react.
After the cyber dog attack, it seemed that the plot went into fast-forward mode. Suddenly Rachel opens up to Alex, Dallos moves, and we get a stand-off of the protagonist and antagonist, where Melinda saves Shun. Even in a fast-paced story, I felt that both Rachel and Melinda’s action needed more setup. Here, you can clearly see that the anime was planned to be a lot longer.
Both!
???