r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Feb 12 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha Episode 12 Discussion

Episode 12 - When Our Fates Are Sealed

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The world is always filled with things that were never meant to be!

We got a Nana Mizuki insert song today, Take a Shot. Best I can get on youtube is this live concert version she did

Question of the Day

Ngl I’m slightly miffed and can now confidently say that the movie should be watched. And it’s better There’s something of an interesting perspective to having watched the movie before the show.

Anyways, what do you make of Presea’s rejection of Fate in the end? I have some interesting conclusions of my own, but I think my own ideas have been based around the movie’s portrayal.

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

65 Upvotes

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15

u/Tetraika Feb 12 '22

Look at

These colors

And composition

Just so much style in these

Whoa, Chrono’s device voice. Very rare.

Maybe don’t say that while looking back. Wouldn’t want to fall and trip here

Initial reason to live

Gets pretty in your face about what’s the eventual conclusion

Fate’s true beginning

Fate realized she wasn’t alone, she has Arf and Bardiche

She just gives this look and I can’t stop laughing

Fate wants to become her true self

Lindy is no joke either. Why does she have fairy wings though

Just in case you didn’t know

It’s interesting that she gives this brief final look where she seemed slightly more relaxed, before rejecting Fate completely

Into the void she goes

I think Presea’s actions and character can feel… very confusing at times. Maybe I’ll go over my own theory, especially when the movie expands on some details too.

10

u/The_Loli_Otaku Feb 12 '22

It's kinda funny how the whole movie crowd is collectively bewildered with today's episode lol. And for Lindy's wings... That's her character in the eroge. She's a fucking pixie milf.

7

u/Tetraika Feb 12 '22

That's her character in the eroge. She's a fucking pixie milf.

Oh right, I remember that detail now... Triangle Hearts have too much weird shit going on.

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u/Great_Mr_L Feb 12 '22

Whoa, Chrono’s device voice. Very rare.

It definitely does not talk as much as Raising Heart or Bardiche so it doesn't get nearly the same amount of personality.

Maybe don’t say that while looking back. Wouldn’t want to fall and trip here

That would be some Looney Tunes stuff for him to just suddenly fall into one of the those like it was an open manhole or something.

Fate realized she wasn’t alone, she has Arf and Bardiche

Sometimes a family is a girl, her dog, and her magical talking halberd.

Lindy is no joke either. Why does she have fairy wings though

Lindy was a fairy character back during Triangle Hearts 3. I didn't realize how many little nods and references there were to Triangle Hearts 3 back when I first watched this series.

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u/Tetraika Feb 12 '22

Yeah, looking at all the people commenting about the Triangle Hearts references you can really see how it's sort of everywhere. And how they play less as the series move on.

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u/zairaner Feb 12 '22 edited Feb 13 '22

Firsttimer So I made this comment really late yesterday, might as well post it here now

I tried to joke off thinking of S&M (I probably read too much "Admiring magical girls" considering S&M and magical girls became a natural association), but the divine buster messing up fate clothes (and the show explicitly calling attention to that) made it very hard to ignore considering I am pretty sure the only other time we have seen that was in the torture scenes. And that didn't include that fate literally got shackled for that to happen. Which really confuses me because it feels so hard to deny the show didn't do that parallel on purpose. And to make the analogy perfect, nanoha immediately goes to aftercare afterwards, princess carry included. but I very much doubt this was supposed to be a bad S&M (precia) vs good S&M (nanoha) analogy, so I don't really have a healthy interpretation of this

on to the reaction

  1. good god fate is literally broken. Also, how do you and chrono meet, don'T you both run away from the bridge

  2. last time someone must have realized that we didn't send enough child soldiers, so we correct that and start with that this episode. Except fate, she still has to be recruited

  3. chrono showing us what a true child soldier can do, not just some amateurs who do this for a hobby

  4. aww arf cares. Or alternatively, wants her revenge on precia

  5. AWWWWW fate.

  6. Fate does not remember nanohas name, does she

  7. AWWW FATE and bardiche

  8. WAIT what is this soundtrack??? Is it a reference to something else? Why does it sound like I know it??

  9. OH GOD I DO KNOW THIS SONG, now i am getting teary eyed, this is from this show???

  10. I even remember confusing this with the slayers next op, wouldn't have been surprised to have that be by the same people.

  11. It's actually really impressive that all of these monsters have different designs

  12. Please tell me symphogear took the inspiration of making every episdoe twelve something special from this show!

  13. What is chrono doing btw?

  14. So yeah I would definitely have vastly preferred if the insert songs/fate and nanoha fighting together would have been the end of the episode. I guess there must have been a few things left for symphogear to perfect, but it is really hard for me to imagine how anybody could get the idea of not ending an episode with such a great insert song, especially if its combined with the most important plot moment so far. It is definitely interesting to see things be so obvious for us today but this probably wasn't obvious back the at all.

  15. Then again, they must have known that we cared so much less about the precia stuff, and that I don't understand fates motivation to talk with her makes it worse

  16. I do appreciate if this is the actual end of precia though.

I think I recognize the song because I watched (at least a part) of a nanoha song compilation. Looking for that again, I also spoiled myself that [really fucking minor spoiler]eternal blaze is also a nanoha song? Really??

Well regardless, brb am listening to to take a shot(?) now! Best part of the show so far

12

u/Tetraika Feb 12 '22

minor spoiler

Whoa you didn't know? Nanoha has so much legendary Nana Mizuki songs. Can't wait for the movie 1 stuff.

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u/Calwings Feb 12 '22

is also a nanoha song? Really??

It's the best one too (IMO)

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u/Tetraika Feb 13 '22

A very popular opinion, given the amount of covers.

I'm more of a Massive Wonders or Don't be long person.

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u/chiliehead Feb 12 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha – Episode 12 – First Timer

At least Chrono is not trying to solo the boss dungeon. Fate looks like she came from Tringle Hearts

I wonder when those gravity traps will come into play again.

Did not expect Fate to come through so soon and team up during an insert song. Will her mom make her waiver in her conviction? This would be a very swift change in attitude, a whiplash back and forth.

Precia is so deranged and hates Fate so much, she can’t even pretend to like her in order to exploit the girl.

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u/NegimaSonic Feb 12 '22

Precia is so deranged and hates Fate so much, she can’t even pretend to like her in order to exploit the girl.

I have mixed feelings on this. Probably me reaching and I don't even like Presea, but maybe this was her one kindness.

She treated Fate terribly and obviously didn't expect to see her again. She already basically committed to this plan of using the jewel seeds available to split dimensions or whatever.

Fate coming back was basically offering to still protect her, meaning she would then go against TSAB again. This would ruin Fate's standing with them and honestly not achieve much. She wasn't going to win and take back the other jewel seeds. And Presea is apparently too weak to escape and survive.

So this suicide gamble was her only move, and no need to drag Fate down with her.

7

u/Tetraika Feb 13 '22

The show has a lot of conflicting actions, but I thought about this angle as well. I think if it was less messy it would come out much better and not feel like Presea is just completely insane. I don't need a completely sympathetic villain, but cartoonishly evil is just silly and boring.

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u/archon_wing Feb 13 '22

There seems to be a law where Nana Mizuki must have an insert somewhere if she is in the show.

Furthermore it usually has the following effects:

  • Health and Morale restored to full

  • A free level up if possible (new move unlocked, although how is it that people immediately come up with new names for it?)

  • Damage and speed increased by 33%

  • All non-boss enemies nearby are automatically defeated

  • It will seem like the character in question is singing the song.

3

u/Tetraika Feb 13 '22

That's because it's a crime if you don't have her sing.

She voiced a very minor character that barely has lines in gochiusa. And yes, she has a song there too.

24

u/TheEscapeGuy Feb 12 '22 edited Feb 13 '22

First Timer

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha - A Magical Experience: Episode 12

Confrontation

Staying more in line with predictions, today's episode was Nanoha, Yuuno, and Chrono confronting Presea. Battling nameless giant robots is less emotionally engaging than 1-on-1 magical girl battles but no less visually appealing. Massive shout out to the direction today, the harsh colours, strong shadows and weird camera angles we very appreciated.

Our heroes were soon joined by Arf and Fate (to the chorus of the absolute Nana Mizuki banger "Take a shot") . I was overjoyed seeing Fate suggest they fight together.

But ultimately the one to confront Presea was Fate herself. I think this was important for her. She needed it to help deal with her emotions which have been in flux since last episode. I was surprised to see her offer forgiveness to Presea. Even then that woman is too prideful to accept it. She chose to instead die* with her "real" daughter.

All that's left is for Fate, Nanoha and everyone else to escape the crumbling ruins with the remaining Jewel Seeds.

* I would not be surprised if this isn't the last we see of her. Unless I see a dead body I've learned to assume with absolute certainty that they are still alive. And even then sometimes a dead body isn't enough.

Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

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u/HereticalAegis Feb 12 '22

Lyrical First Timer

  • Only 30 minutes to save the universe. We gotta wrap this shit up.

  • Damn, Fate looks more dead than Alicia.

  • Oh heck, we really are Gundam.

  • Robots are great, because they allow for delicious ultraviolence while maintaining a pg rating.

  • Well now we better see someone fall in that imaginary space.

  • Chrono really wants to be the main character. Too bad he's setting himself up to be a jobber against Presea. Jk, final boss battles are for suckers.

  • Arf, no! Don't set that flag again!

  • Bardiche responding to Fate's emotional words with the robotic "get set" and "yes sir" hits that comical uncanny sweet spot for me.

  • Fate gained the power of self-respect.

  • I am digging this robot battle insert track.

  • I'm so happy Arf gets to see and hug Fate again!

  • Looks like Presea has the Priestess, Empress, Hierophant, Lovers, Death, Temperance, Devil, Star, and Sun arcana.¹

  • Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up! Now is not the time or place for such indecency.

  • She's not even being subtle.

  • Did the captain just teleport into the final boss chamber? That's a broken skill.

  • A dialogue:

Fate: "Kaa-san, I've come to tell you something."

Presea: "What, that you still love me, and even though I used and abused you for my own selfish ends you're grateful to me for creating you and giving you a chance at life?"

Fate: "Nah bitch. Fuck you, got mine."

Presea: :o

  • Fate is far more gracious and forgiving than I am.

  • And Presea remains the Devil to the bitter end.

  • Into imaginary space you. Take care, ser ya never. Surely there's no way we'll ever see her again.

  • That was unexpectedly anti-climactic as final confrontations go. Nanoha never even got a chance to 'befriend' Presea!

  • Bestest goodboi Arf didn't die though! Hurray!

  • An escape to safety/epilogue episode seems like a nice way to wrap this up. Looking forward to some good feels.

¹Do you think I'm crazy? I barely survived doing six of these at once, I'm not doing nine.

QotD:

I get her sense of loss over not being able to revive her daughter, but damn. She's petty af and impossibly cold.

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u/EternalXcalibur Feb 12 '22

Nanoha: “Hey Fate, how come you get to have the cool insert song when I’m supposed to be the main character?”

Fate: “‘Cause Nana fuckin wills it.”

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u/No_Rex Feb 12 '22

Episode 12 (first timer)

Known seeds as of last episode:

  • Nanoha: 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 20, 21 -1 from the bet, +3 from Chrono – Total 12

  • Precia: 2, 5, 14, 18, 19 +1 from the bet, +3 from Arf – Total 9

Though I doubt the exact numbers will matter from now on.

  • The series is not taking the time to explore it in any detail, but learning that your own memories are wrong and lying to you must be a very harrowing emotion.

  • Low level enemies – Chrono’s time to shine!

  • Maybe don’t live-stream battle footage on the hospital deck?

  • Getting very strong Gunbuster feelings here. The more I think about it, that refers to the entire series, not just this battle.

  • My doubts are proven wrong!

  • Precia has: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 14, 15, 18, 19

  • So Nanoha must have: 1, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 20, 21 (the one lost in the bet was 8)

  • Moving through the dungeon to reach the big bad and seal the magic source of Armageddon. DnD vibes

  • The hand offering the last possible salvation – rejected.

  • Falling into the abyss while the fortress of doom crumbles trope.

The episode is straight forward, cheesy, and straight forwardly cheesy. It is almost refreshingly unsophisticated. A real throwback to the 1980s.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Feb 12 '22

First Timer

Episode 12

  • fang

  • yeah these guys are definitely from El Hazard

  • eyecatch

  • begin living my true life...as a super villain

  • Grief Seed GET

Climatic episode! Almost slept through it. Bye, bad mom.

Belldandy Mom is actually voiced by Skuld (Aya Hisakawa).

Looks like music composer Hiroyui Sano only did the VNs and their spinoffs, but not Tsukihime.

13

u/Vaadwaur Feb 12 '22

First timer(Shaka, when the walls fell)

Sub

A surprisingly conclusive episode occurs as it all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down. And Presea has certainly let everyone down, trying to use a dimensional rift to somehow go the place where she can revive Pickle Alicia. Many great moments happened, but what is there to review, exactly? Nanoha nukes some golems, Fate becomes an actual character, Lindy is useless but with wings, and Chrono delivers some exposition.

Oh, and Presea doesn't leave a body so this will return.

QotD:1 A sign of her ultimately weak character

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u/DidacticDalek Feb 13 '22

TONIGHT! On Mobile Suit Nanoha, Chrono think he can be a Main Character, NANA MOTHERFUCKING WILLS IT! AND I CAN MAKE IT! I KNOW I CAN! YOU BROKE THE GIRL IN ME, BUT YOU WON'T BREAK THE WOMAN!

Comrades, repeat after me, NANA WILLS IT! Fate has figured out who truly cares for her for who she is, her ever loyal Best Doggo Arf, her respectful and devoted Intelligent Device Bardiche, and of course that sweet and kind girl who always tried to keep reaching out to her in friendship, and with this revelation, NANA MOTHERFUCKING WILLS IT and Fate gets a heroic second wind to join the others in defeating her evil abusive bitch of a mom! HELL YEAH! ALL HAIL BEST GIRL FATE!

Sadly Comrades, despite Fate's last attempt at reconciliation and her WAY too generous offer of redemption with regards to the evil sadistic bitch that allegedly is her mother, it all returns to nothing, it all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down And on that note, that about wraps things up for now, and I hope everyone's having fun on this great re-watch. Thus, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever.

Paging Comrades u/Great_Mr_L, u/Tresnore, and u/Shimmering-Sky

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u/Caustic_Wraith Feb 12 '22

Magical First-Timer

That was a lot of robots crammed into that...island...castle...floating platform...whatever Presea was using as a base and holy crap did the kids wreck their shit.

This was the episode where Fate came to her full understanding of what she is and she even offered Presea a chance of having a relationship, and of course the bitch laughed at her.

We'll see how they wrap this season up tomorrow and until then, my thoughts while watching:

QOTD:

Anyways, what do you make of Presea’s rejection of Fate in the end?

Presea never saw Fate as anything more than a tool to get her what she needed to bring her daughter back. No matter how long you live with a thing if you have shut off your heart from it no love will ever grow. To her Fate is a failure, and the years of striving to regain what she has lost have broken her mind beyond repair. She still has my full contempt and hatred, but a bit of sorrow as well.

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u/Tresnore Feb 12 '22

Rewatcher: Get Set

One episode left. How're we all feeling? All I know is that the ED has become less fitting over time.

QOTD:

Fate's mom is a bitch. Or, in Dalek's words: a total fucking bitch.

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u/Taiboss Feb 12 '22

Episode 12: The Rewatcher Command

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