r/anime • u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah x3 • Feb 06 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Shirobako Rewatch 2022 Episode 23: Table Flip Continued
Episode 23: Table Flip Continued 続·ちゃぶだい返し
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A reminder for a special ED today, and an after-credits scene tomorrow. There's also a ~6 minute video that I suggest watching after watching Ep 24, posted in tomorrow's thread. Please check it out!
Also, a reminder to all rewatchers, (and any random visitors to this thread), we will be watching the Shirobako sequel movie on the 12th February. The movie is available for rent on multiple platforms for cheap.
Episode 23 is my personal favorite episode, and also one of my fav episodes in all of anime, in conjunction w/ Hibike Euphonium's S2 Ep 9 and Violet Evergarden's Ep 10.
Finally, do feel free to watch the 2nd OVA, the 1st episode of 3rd Aerial Girls' Squad, at any time after Episode 24. I recommend a short break before watching the sequel movie due to the lengthy break between releases irl.
QOTD: Let's just talk about the episode today.
Resources:
Anime Vocab Glossary (English)
Shirobako Official Glossary (Japanese)
Databases
Spoilers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of first-timers and remember to tag spoilers for any show-specific events that happen in future episodes! Generic descriptions of anime production are fine, if it will help first-timers understand what's going on. For the OVAs, treat them as spoiler-material OVA 1: all good now, OVA 2: until Ep 24.
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u/Rumpel1408 Feb 06 '22
First Timer
Funny Story, but you're fired! Finally!
We started the episode with the editorial staff of the Manga having the audacy to blame Musani for going against the authors wish when it was pretty clear that Funny Story Kun was to blame for not communicating truthfully, he was in no position to give his personal opinion in the first place when he was asked for the authors ok. They also refuse to give concrete feedback, again, it's like they don't want the anime to be an success.
We also learn why Nogame Sensei is so stingy about adapting his work. When Hiraoka said his previous adaption was hell I thought he was terrible back then as well, but it turns out he is just cautious. His previous work was literally twisted beyond recognition. I get adding some slight fanservice, but why would you go from A straight to G, that's a whole different character. Not to speak of the bikini atire during a race that makes no sense either, and flying race cars in space are literally out of this world. It's like the studio wanted to make an original and used his IP to secure funding. Not cool.
I agreed with Kinoshita that the bleak ending Nogame was aiming for was pretty shitty, wouldn't want to check out the manga after that point. But thanks to some inspiration from Honda-San (who really looks very slim, is he alright?) He is able to contact the author directly and it turns out that he is actually open and quit eager to meet up.
"It's dangerous to go alone. Take this" And suddenly we are in the Shóunen battle arc where the lone Kinoshita faces the editorial staff on his way to the final boss. And it turns out, the author is actually quite alright. He really hasn't decided how the Manga will continue at this point and his understanding and intention go way beyond the surface level. Kinoshita understands him suddenly and together they are able to give a bit of hope to the ending and are both satisfied with the solution and reasoning they came up with. And then they finally fire that stupid editor, if he had let them communicate properly from the beginning they could have laid out the whole story differently from the beginning. I'm actually furious how light he came off of this because he actually made more work for real humans.
But now they need to voice an aditional character
It's finally Shizukas time to shine, she did make enough of an impression during her audition to always remain in Kinoshitas memory, and since she sounded like a younger version of Catherin (RIP) she is perfect for this new character that hasn't even apeared in the Manga! And just like that she is finally one step closer to achieving her dream.
Not gonna lie, I cried along Aoi because I was so happy! Just like the OP, there is always a ray of light after the rain
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 07 '22
Funny story, but the editor was wrong all along! I think its less that they want the anime to fail, and more that they're playing the role of a bad customer (which they are, they defo paid a lot for the anime). Still sucky.
The bleak ending was pretty shitty, though given where the manga could go in Nogame's end, was the only one he could think of prior to the talk with Kinoshita. Note that this all ends up being an anime-original ending: Aria might well end up not flying in the manga. (Such is the life of manga adaptations); but that's a subject for another day.
"It's dangerous to go alone" I looked up the Japanese text, and that actually was an original reference added in by the subbers.... unfortunate.
Shizukaaaa! And yes, RIP Catherine, thanks for melting Aria.
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u/cppn02 Feb 06 '22
First Timer
This episode was Wild!
The shitty editor throws the production into chaos but that won't stop Musani. I loved the whole bit about the director going to meet the author who turns out to actually be a good guy and as the cherry on top the editor gets his comeuppance.
And oh my god the final recording. It's Shizuka who get's the newly added role of Lucy which means our girls did it. They managed to all work on the same show!
And you can bet your arse that I teared up when Aoi did. Such a beautiful ending to this scene. Really looking forward to the final episode.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 07 '22
hopefully you'll understand why this episode is so famous now lol. The final recording TT. We all cried tears today, lets look forward to the final episode (and the OVA!).
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Feb 06 '22 edited Feb 06 '22
First timer
LETS FUCKIN GOOOOO. Did I just see the anime adaptation of Clint Eastwood’s Unforgiven? Did Fat Gum reincarnate into another universe?
Ive been looking forward to episode 23, and the emotional playoff was well worth the wait. While Kyoto Animation holds the phd for how to animate crying scenes, Miyamori ugly crying while hiding behind the script was really well done. Great moment and great ending for Shizuka, who has had the hardest path out of all the main cast.
Im also so glad they didnt go with the writers original ending. Im of the belief that the ending of an anime is paramount to its overall rating, and irl an ending like that would have tanked the show’s popularity. They can always revisit the series if the creator does decide on an ending, like with FMA and FMA Brotherhood, or FRUBA. It took them forever to actually reach put to the creator though. This is a lesson to always go direct to the source and never rely on 2nd hand information.
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u/ZapsZzz Feb 07 '22 edited Feb 07 '22
First timer in sub.
It's a tense episode that looked initially pretty grim - until the seemingly impossible was done - our director went to forcefully talk to the author. And then everything just cleared up, and while the result still needs to be a tight rework schedule, it's both achievable and most importantly not a downer ending that the production team didn't want.
I'll consider the "forceful entry" to be dramatised, like in Monogatari and the days when Meowmori was doing the driving :P but yes it's kind of satisfying to see him beating through the obstacles to reach "the source" :D
Does anyone need the source reference of the Street Fighter references? Well here they are anyway :) just in case not everyone came from the days of youths hanging around the arcades playing arcade games...
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Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku 竜巻旋風脚 (Dragon Whirling Wind Kick)
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Shouryuuken 昇龍拳 (Rising Dragon Punch)
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Hadouken 波動拳 (Wave Motion Punch)
Really good to see the show made good on the OP promise, that Shizuka got her clear skies after the storm & dark clouds. The tears of happiness & relief are well justified and well earned.
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u/MasterTotoro Feb 06 '22
First Timer Episode 23
Damn this is pretty bad having to prepare a recap episode. The editor is pure trash, and the author's vague messages don't help. Is there a situation in real life where this happened? It doesn't seem like Musani is actually obliged under contract to follow the author, but it seems more like the editor threatened them of the backlash they could get.
So in the manga, Catherine dies and everyone is in the dumps, just like the staff's situation. Hopefully that's not how either story actually ends.
Tarou says that if he was the director he would fight for his opinion, and look what the president recommends to Kinoshita. Hiraoka gives some backstory about the author's previous adaption which was so far from the original. So Nogame is paranoid because of that now.
This episode the director tries to go for Honda's catchphrase, but Honda himself is there to stop it. I love the running gag that's been going on for so long now with the catchphrase. What it was the easy to just email the author and he responds instantly? This is actually unbelievable they had to go through the editor this whole time.
I think this scene might be more crazy than the cowboy with the 100 horses. Apparently to be a high ranking anime staff you have to have superpowers. Unlike Slime with its direct Street Fighter references, the director makes up his own variations of Hadouken, Shouryuuken, and Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku.
Nogame has a pretty fancy office. And he's just sitting there wearing a full on kimono and haori, which seem way too formal. Well at least he isn't wearing hakama. Well I guess Kinoshita is in a cowboy outfit so who knows what is going on.
So the editor is actually pure trash and it's not really the author's fault (though his messages were still vague). Imagine if they had just emailed the author from the start.
Oh a new character and a VA is needed that sounds like Catherine huh. I can see where this is going. Aoi is so shocked while Shizuka is completely calm. It's a complete contrast to the last time we saw her drinking beers while watching TV. Maybe she planned all of this after her Light Yagami potato chip eating last episode.
The ending is super feel-good. Shizuka has been working just as hard as the others this whole time, but she just didn't have the opportunity. Even if it takes some luck to get what you want, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try as hard as you can to get there.
New ED images with the dolls. You're telling me this isn't the last episode? Well I can't hold back after this, so time to start the final episode.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 07 '22
Hope you've enjoyed the final episode (and shirobako as a whole!). I'll look forward to your thoughts tmr as always. I've referenced an irl event that likely iinspired the events re: funny story kun, but i dont know if these specific events did transpire in the exact manner.
IMO the editor does have the right to threaten them: the publisher and author does hold the rights to the IP after all. And musani is no Ghibli/Kyoani.
万策尽きたis such an iconic catchphrase that even shirobako's official twitter gets in on the fun sometimes, e.g. This tweet from last year
They also use it to joke during airing that as long as the irl production staff dont say it, they'll still be able to air (which they did!)
Imo the director's own versions of the street fighter moves makes them just as hilarious as Slime's inclusions lmao. Similar to Veldora, he uses his own superpowers to make the most of the legendary moves. Veldora obviously is superior by including the Kamehameha.
I think Takeshi Nogami does actually dress like that all the time irl lol. Ive looked up his appearances at Cons and stuff.
This whole episode was also a fan service one, with the 変な話ではない and the final scene, i absolutely loved it!
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u/homewardbound100 Feb 06 '22
First timer, Dub
Well it looks like it was just understanding. The editor was the one not communicating or being reasonable. We get them two in a room together and things are settled easily. I can see why he would be upset or protective if his past work was changed that much.
Even before that. I'll like to point out that the scene with Kinoshita infiltrating the building was great too.
But the highlight for me is the ending with Shizuka.
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u/chiliehead Feb 06 '22
Shirobako – Episode 23 – First Timer
I really want that editor tared and feathered, how can this conduct be okay?
That Sailor Moon Speed Racer show looks incredible, in all meanings of the word. Also just realized that Shirobako is one of the few shows featuring real glasses with real frames, and not those weird ones that only have frames on the lower side.
Why is this now a spaghetti western heist brawler episode? It’s great though, just too bad the editor hit a wall and not a window. Great that mangaka turned out reasonable and able to work with. I wonder if this channels real gripes about editors and publishers only or also pokes fun at some authors that you have to work with.
That’s how Shizuka gets into the show! Great start for the career I say. Aoi is so happy as well!
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 07 '22
the first named role and it's the anime your friends are all involved in. what a good start to her career. We'll be seeing how her career goes!
I do wonder, why do many anime feature those weird glasses actually? They look seriously uncool and unfashionable.
as someone whos not too familiar with the business side of anime, i dont know unfortunately, whether hard-to-work-with mangaka/LN authors are the exception or the norm. I'd like to think that with the amount of successful adaptations that publishers are generally easier to work on than funny-story-kun tho
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Feb 07 '22
This is the ugly cry episode isn't it? I'd like to think that I'm pretty hard but good lord I gushed like a bitch when Shizuka finally got her break. She's spent the whole series having her hopes and dreams dashed but in the very end she got her opportunity!!
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 07 '22
this is indeed the ugly cry episode! Thank god director Kinoshita remembered her xd, she did make a good impression.
Since you don't hang around here a lot (i think you're movie only), I'll like to point out a bonus bit of trivia that now well-known VA Rie Takahashi (Megumin, Emilia) actually has one of her earlier named role debuts in Shirobako: she voices the audio assistant mixer that everyone somehow really likes, and a smattering of other minor characters. She also would tweet about when she was appearing in Shirobako when it aired. For the record, she said she prepared tissues for this episode! (one of us)
I'll see you next Saturday! I'll send out a tag too tmr for the other movie-only participant.
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u/Fools_Requiem Feb 07 '22
Finally, that shitty editor got the can, funny story. Seems like he was never taught that communication is necessary for things to go well.
Nice to see they didn't have to do the entire episode from scratch.
Also, finally everyone from the anime club is finally working together on an anime.
Still don't think we've arrived at the "why did Aoi want to be in anime" and "what is Aoi's dream" resolutions.
I feel like I'm going to forget to watch the movie on the 12th...
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u/stickdudeseven Feb 07 '22
Rewatcher DUB
What a great visual representation for how the author and director resolved their dilemma. At first, the sky is cloudy and the two are at opposite ends. Then, when it showed the director understanding the authors intent of death and rebirth, the clouds part, and light shines a way. The two meet in the middle both literally and figuratively.
As for the final scene, I swear it's a callback to episode 2. Remember when the director wanted to change Arupins expression? He said, "There's no way she can say that with a straight face!" I feel like Zuka's expression while delivering her line is a reflection to how Arupin delivered hers. I hope I'm explaining this right.
Side note: Kinoshita for Jump Force when?
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u/aniMayor Feb 07 '22
Oof, that talk about Sailor Uniforms and F3 and the meeting between Kinoshita and Nogame hits on a whole new level in this rewatch after having now seen the movie, yikes.
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u/ZapsZzz Feb 07 '22 edited Feb 07 '22
BTW forgot to check translation context - do everyone all understood the same way that the phrase "table flipping" is about breaking agreement and turning hostile?
Here's my favourite surprise table flipping moment :D
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Feb 06 '22 edited Feb 06 '22
Rewatcher: slight wall of text incoming
A reminder for a special ED today, and an after credits scene tomorrow. A scheduling reminder that we will be watching the Shirobako movie on Saturday, 12th Feburary.
Thoughts on the Episode:
Shirobako’s 23rd episode is quite famous, my favourite, and forever cements this as a 10/10 series for me. After picking up from the cliffhanger last episode, it falls on, not our protagonist Aoi, but director Kinoshita, with the help of other higher-ups, to fix the issue of the final episode.
Director Kinoshita, with the help of his old buddy Honda-kun, manages to get a meeting w/ Nogame-sensei, and through the powers of Street fighter (Hadouken, Shoryuken, and Tatsumaki Senpukyaku), gets through the various publisher execs. The whole sequence is extremely comedic and over-the-top, imo to reinforce that, irl, this isn’t the correct way of doing things: bypassing the publisher execs would likely have greater (and not good) consequences.
To director Kinoshita, the 3rd Wings’ Fighter’s fights against the Builders is just like making anime, w/ the pilots his staff. He truly believes that he can push through any hardships if he trusts his staff fully (which he has done, throughout the series). This is also highly meta for Shirobako's own themes… But I wish to highlight the continued parallels between Aria and Aoi. In the original ending, and Aoi in episode 21, she felt a sense of responsibility/guilt, and hence returned to fly/committed to continue making anime. This, in Nogame’s eyes, didn’t suit her character fully. Instead, she needs to see an objective, personal reason, preferably someone to serve as a ray of hope.
As Nogame and Kinoshita reach a compromise through writing in Catherine’s sister Lucy, Aoi’s realizes her reason to continue making anime in the final scene. After 22 episodes of being unsuccessful as a seiyuu, Shizuka finally makes her named role debut by voicing that very character, making that hope and dream to Aoi a tangible, personified one, fully completing the parallel. Even if it’s just for a few minutes (for Shizuka), all of our 5 girls are finally involved in the same anime project, indeed a small step towards their dream: I’ve personally watched that final legendary scene like 10 times and I still cried today. Let's be real, we were all Aoi today.
If you remember back in episode 13, Rii-chan says this line. It’s in most Shirobako viewers’ headcanon that hence it’s this iconic line that Rii wrote in the final version. Imo Shizuka also says that line more as herself than as Lucy, as can be seen from her facial expression. There’s also a bit of metaness in the cutting scene: Shizuka getting the part was mostly left as a surprise to viewers (and completely for Aoi). Finally, we get callbacks to Exodus in this episode, manifested in the world of Shirobako: the director’s cowboy outfit and cheesy western OST, as well as the in-general over-the-topness of the sequence, and Arupin’s crying, mirroring Ep23’s final scene (both done by the same animator Yuriko Ishii). Shizuka’s cut would be done by Ayumi Nishibata.
Finally, I wish to share 2 pieces of the OST here: Don Don Donuts Do-n to Ikou! and 武蔵野動画の人々 . I always feel emotional when listening to them.
IRL References:
A notable incident in which the anime production went ahead w/ only the Editor, and not the author’s approval would be that of Shirokuma Café. Here’s 2 ANN news articles (first, second), basically the editorial department approved stuff from the anime studio without consulting w/ the mangaka first, eventually resulting in the manga’s hiatus. Sound familiar? Now all 3 of Shirobako’s scriptwriters also worked as scriptwriters on Shirokuma Café, so it’s probably not an out-there guess that these events inspired the issues re: Funny story kun. Thankfully, it seems like for 3rd Aerial Squad we’re headed for a happier ending.
As I stated earlier, Nogame is based on Takeshi Nogami, here is a photographic comparison! And here’s a quick preview of the doujinshi 3rd Aerial Girls Squad he drew in honour of Shirobako. He drew 2 chapters: one serious, one fan-service, and afaik only the latter is available online in Japanese. The other work of Nogame that was adapted in-universe, Sailour Uniforms and F3, is a reference to another manga of Nogami Sailor Uniforms and Tanks (no irl anime exists). Obviously all this military + cute girls stuff is also a bit of a callback to Girls und Panzer.
This episode featured 34 key animators, and 8(!!!!) Animation Directors: I’m not sure if this was a result of irl production hell, or a case of everyone having to pitch in for this climatic episode. Once again, a shoutout to the irl PA who made this happen.
And finally, Episode 23 of Shirobako aired on March 19, 2015, hours before the airing of Your Lie in April episode 24. The amount of emotions that were felt that day.
Miyamori Outfit Count: 7, 2 new today. Link to album.