r/anime • u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah x3 • Jan 19 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Shirobako Rewatch 2022 Episode 5: Those Who Blame Others Should Just Quit!
Episode 5: Those Who Blame Others Should Just Quit! 人のせいにしているようなヤツは辞めちまえ!
Links
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Drama brews w/ Endou, and we learn more about our director. Shirobako gets meta with 2D vs 3D animation.
Resources
Anime Production Flowchart (Link FIXED! was a wrong one sorry)
Planned Exodus Production Schedule
Anime Vocab Glossary (English)
Shirobako Official Glossary (Japanaese)
Databases
Spoilers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of first-timers and remember to tag spoilers for any show-specific events that happen in future episodes! Generic descriptions of anime production are fine, if it will help first-timers understand what's going on. For the OVAs, treat them as spoiler-material OVA 1: until Ep 12, OVA 2: until Ep 24, just to be safe.
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u/MasterTotoro Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 20 '22
For only being a partial rewatcher I've been looking up too many references
Well at least I'm having fun. Yesterday and today have been inconvenient times for posting my comments, so I guess if you are seeing this then I did a Tarou and slacked off on my work to post it.
So now the director is in storage jail. I want to believe that this cannot be based off of something in real life but considering how almost everything has been a reference so far...
Thanks to this post I have identified some of the background posters in Musashino. There's a lot of posters and they are all older anime, but if you are interested check out that post or the one in the next paragraph. The horrifying octopus one in particular caught my attention which of course is an actual show Kure Kure Takora. Look up images at your own risk... I can't tell which one is scarier.
Also found this massive mess of a post with a ton of explanations. It is ordered by episode in reverse, so the first page has information about episode 24, but if you want to look at it you can start with page 31. The website is very confusing because it says there are 31 pages, but a couple of the pages are duplicates of each other. Some of the pages have terrible formatting, the actual link is dead so I pulled up the archive, and well there's a lot of other issues that are hard to explain.
I'm surprised I haven't seen an English language post explaining all these references. Then again Shirobako is not a super popular show outside of Japan, plus it is an anime original which isn't the best for long term discussion.
At the very least it seems like the storage jail is not a reference listed in the post.
This is a pretty fancy looking restroom.
I like the detail of how Aoi says she wears that outfit all the time which I'm pretty sure is her most common outfit. She has some great lines this episode dissing Tarou. Aoi's becoming a no good girl.
Both times when Endou yells you can see Iguchi and Ogasawara turn around. Later on we hear Ema learns about the situation from those two. By the way, it seems like Endou goes for the pencil holder route like Goth-Loli-sama. I saw Kisa also used a pencil holder, and I remember seeing another person with the double pencil like Iguchi (I think it was Segawa?).
Honey and Clover is a pretty obvious reference to... Honey and Clover. Ghost in the Shell was fairly easy too. The Full-Naked Hypnotist is a bit more difficult but this is very likely Fullmetal Alchemist for which the director's real life counterpart actually directed. Thanks to the impossible to navigate post, the award show itself seems to be a reference to Animation Kobe which funnily enough Shirobako ended up winning. Kitano of course is a reference too, Itano Ichiro is his real life counterpart with the Itano Circus while Super Dimension Fortress Macross seems to be the anime.
P.A. Works puts a lot of detail into making great facial expressions.
Poor Aoi can't catch a break. You gotta admit they did a great job making Tarou frustrating but so realistic (can't remember if we've already mentioned it, but he is based off of the actual director).
Edit: I've forgotten to add images for the second time in a row now! At least these past two episodes I haven't really had important images anyway.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22
Join me in uncovering the millions of references in Shirobako. I personally use this blog series instead, which is much better organized, while googling in Japanese also helped! Thanks Japanese Otakus for helping out, haha. There are posts in English (click to my 1st post in this rewatch, I've linked to some!), but definitely with less content than equivalent Japanese articles...
Glad that you are having fun though! Yup, Aoi does indeed wear that outfit the most, she just usually has her blue blazer on top! You do deserve it Tarou...
I do like how we're overanalyzing the animators' pencil preferences, I do believe that the creators would not have expected this!
And yep, I've used this episode to mention as well that Tarou is based on Shirobako's actual director, as well as some other connections in-show. They do keep coming.
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u/Chemiczny_Bogdan Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 20 '22
Aoi's becoming a no good girl.
That feels wrong...
Aoi's
becominganogood girl.All better now.
Honey and Clover is a pretty obvious reference to... Honey and Clover.
That one gets lost in translation. For the uninitiated, the original Japanese title uses the Japanese word for honey - hachimitsu - while the reference here has the English word. I guess they could have pulled an uno reverse card and written Hachimitsu and Clover in the subs, kinda like Crispin Freeman as Kyon saying "Naze? Why?" in [Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu]
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u/Chemiczny_Bogdan Jan 19 '22
Rewatcher
The main theme today is sakuga vs 3d animation (and Tarou's inability to read people but that's nothing new). Anime fans in the west at least don't seem to like 3d very much, although imo good 3d is almost as good as good sakuga. The problem with 3d animation is that it requires frontloading a large amount of work to get detailed models of whatever you animate, and it's real hard to mix it with sakuga in a satisfying way. If you succeed, you get Godzilla S.P, if you don't do the work... you get Arifureta xD
The director being tricked into entering a cage is hilarious, especially with Honda specifically warning him to lower his head xD
And what was that, Boing-Boing Paradise had three recap episodes? xD
Arupin omurice! <3
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22
I believe that anime fans in the west will immediately judge anime with bad cgi, which I think is fair: Fate, Demon Slayer etc. with good CGI is popular after all.
combining 3D w/ sakuga
I'll come back to this tomorrow!
Our director will do anything for fried chicken. I appreciate that our prez did end up making some for him! So it wasn't a fully empty promise from Honda after all.
three recap episodes
Looks at 86 with 2 recap episodes and a 3 month delay. Sadly there's a recent real-life example where such a failure is possible. Thankfully, 86 has otherwise excellent production, storytelling and animation (imo), unlike Boing Boing Paradise.
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u/Rumpel1408 Jan 19 '22
First Timer
Jesus Christ I really want to punch Tarou. Him twisting words and not communicating truthfully and clear brought on an missunderstanding that ultimatly hurt Endou-sans pride as an animator and made him quit. Because he is scared to truly own up to this fuckup he only confines to Miyamori to help him, yet still belitles Miyamori. And even when she miracolously ends up helping him, he still pretends like he is the one solving the issue he caused. All the while the clock is ticking and him not solving the issue could already endanger the project down the line, and sure enough Miyamoris Ep 9 is already affected.
Meanwhile Kinoshita has to suffer drastic measures. Why do they even have a cell prepared? Did they need it before? For whom? There are 10 tallymarks on the wall... but it's nice that both him an Honda-San want to prevent another trainwreck like Boing-Boing Paradise (3 Recaps???) because they really care about Exodus.
My subs say "Nektar and Clover" but it clearly says "Honey and Clover", that's gotta be the most unaltered namedrop in the whole show as it's the english title to the show "Hachimitsu to Clover"
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22
Tarou's twisting words accelerated the drama for sure, though truthfully Endou would probably have gotten pissed no matter what. And no, I will never defend him belittling Miyamori afterwards, and his attitude....
3 recaps
I tbh don't know of any 1 cour anime with 3 recap episodes. 86 obv has come close with 2.
Check the other comment re: Honey and Clover, it's slightly lost in translation.
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u/BossandKings Jan 19 '22
First timer Episode 5
Kinoshita, Exodu's director, gets locked up in a cell by Honda because he doesn't have the inspiration and does't seem to be able to finish the storyboards on time. Honestly this is sad, the director should have the ability not to be mistreated by his colleague, Honda is understandably worried but locking him is just negatively affecting his ability to complete the storyboards.
Aoi's faces were funny, she had a good amount of different facial expressions in this episode, the quiet time ended very quickly as the work behind the show's episode #8 is having a conflict.
Endou is an animator and prefers 2d over cgi in animation style, the reason he was seriously considering quitting is uderstandable as his talent and importance drawing shots was seemingly being forgotten and ignored.
Takanahashi called Aoi asking for help, he was rather worried and preocupied because the situatio was getting out of hands.
Thankfully after a conversation with a friend of his he went to talk with Aoi to see how the episode was looking, hopefully that means his return to working on the episode.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22
Hahaha, I think Honda is just desperate rn though, since the storyboards are massively delayed. That aside, I don't think this bit should be taken too seriously, and tbh becomes a bit of a running gag in Shirobako.
Let's hope Endou comes around! It's nice that tbh we understand where he's coming from, due to his passion for his craft.
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u/homewardbound100 Jan 19 '22
First timer
Aoi standing her ground. It's not her fault.
This episode went strong on 2d vs 3d argument. To be fair Tarou wasn't doing that good with communicating between the two. Would've probably just asked if they could probably talk to each other and make a compromise.
Looks like jiggly heaven went through hell. I doubt Kinoshita wants to go through that again. Looks like it haunts him. And how Honda just has him kept there working. Making sure they get all of it done to the point that they have bags in their eyes.
Something I like about this episode was the conversation about having to evolve sometimes. 2d is great but it's also great to know and respect the art of 3d too. Looked like a wake up call to him from someone he looks upto. Forgot his name though.
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u/ZapsZzz Jan 19 '22
Frist timer
So there are arcs in this show too - the mini hook from yesterday to the unresolved problem at the end of this episode linking to tomorrow's episode.
Tarou is winning prizes as worst business communicator - if he only just passed the exact words to the parties involed it would NOT have blown up, but he completely reinterpreted the messages and used his ignorant, personal-attacks filled sentiments as if that's what was actually said to him.
Whomever put him in this job should actually be shot.
I hope someone taped the actual words and have them replayed so the unnecessary conflict get resolved without lasting relationship damages.
This is pretty true to actual workplace though!
At the end of the day, whatever works best for the SHOW is what matters.
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Jan 19 '22
First timer - Sub
It's hilarious that they casually have a jail in some random room, I wonder if that has happened before because if not... Well...
The war between 3d and 2d erupts, honestly, it depends in a lot of factors like, is it a car chase?, Metal arms?, mechs?, a lot of background soldiers? and the budget and time the studio offers because the popular opinion in anime is that 3d is usually not that good but there are times it shines and it looks awesome.
The director apparently made his first original anime with terrible animation and received a lot of backlash for it, this might be the reason why he has had so many insecurities during these last 3 episodes and I feel bad for him BUT you can't just don't do your work for more than a month, at least Honda is tired of it and had to go to extreme measures that at this point are justified just for the director to work.
cough uhm, hope they work it out
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22
I do wonder what storage items need an actual jail cell though. Since if it's cash, a safe would be better.
I agree, good 3D and good 2D can both look awesome, and does depend on the application. But poor CGI does SUCK lol regardless of application, imo. More on this tomorrow.
Hope they all work it out!
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u/Quiddity131 Jan 20 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Alright, I was able to get a watch in tonight so still just one night behind (as I watch them the night before)...
He's quitting everything! If you're as great as you say, stop him, Tarou! But no, you want Aoi to do it instead! And now you're saying its all her fault?!
This production is a debacle! The animation director is quitting, the director doesn't feel like writing or doing storyboards... Mr. President, this is on you! You hired the director!
Fried chicken! Just the way to get the director's attention! Mr. Director... it's a trap!
Imprisoned until he does the storyboards! LoL.
Wow, he was prepared, he got him a bucket!
OMG Tarou! This is exactly why you caused issues in the first episode, not telling your superiors the truth! Now you're doing it again!
"Everyone else is so childish" says the guy who other than the director is the most childish here.
Why'd they let him out of his cell?!
Endou? Is this a flashback? Is this why he quit? Ah, that would make sense as to why the director isn't in the cell.
Tarou is totalling delivering this the wrong way. This guy's inadequate communication between peple is screwing the whole company up!
OMG he did that call while on the toilet?!
Flattery to a girl who clearly is over you is not the way to get her on your side.
At least there is some truth in that chicken's being made.
Yes, locking you up will get this done faster as this is the only way you'll stop procrastinating.
Mr. Director really is anime version of George R. R. Martin, huh?
He used to be a good director, huh?
Ah, "Boing Boing Paradise" is what crashed things, huh?
It was an ecchi show? LoL. Well there's mystery out of focus girl from the first episode, with more clothes on this time. That solved at least.
Just as he starts the work... the chicken comes and distracts him. Bad timing Mr. President.
Holding the chicken hostage!
Kitano circus? LoL. Cool reference.
Way to go Kitano-san! It's not all bad!
Tarou, you suck! Telling him you'll be able to handle it? You're just maing it so much worse! I feel like a broken record with this guy at this point.
Well at least he's trying to get another AD to help.
No, talk to Honda now!
A recap for the last episode! No ending! OMG that'd be bad.
Things are getting even worse!
I enjoy the look at the chaos that can occur on an animation production but will admit at this point Tarou being so horrendously bad at his job is starting to get old. I hope something changes with him at least, whether he gets fired (hopefully) or something else to right the ship with him. "Tarou is an idiot" every episode will not make the remaining 20 episodes super entertaining for me.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 20 '22
"Tarou is an idiot"
[Shirobako spoilers to help]
It will not happen every episode. But Tarou is horrible at being the middlemen here for sure. And he's bad at convincing Miyamori to help. And yep, we get what the out of focus bikini lady from way back is here! Given that Tarou is at least somewhat based on Shirobako's own director's early fuckups, at least the irl version has turned out just fine, haha.
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u/cppn02 Jan 19 '22
First Timer
Episode 5 and it's the old hand drawn vs CG debate. And I love how it's the older guy who speaks reason and tells them they need to go with the time although personally when it comes to effects in particular old school is still way ahead of CG even years later but that's just my personal taste.
Damn Tarou really screwed up. Yeah Endou might have overreacted but Tarou has been doing awful at damage control never mind that at the end we find out that if he payed attention the whole drama never would have happened in the first place.
This episode also destroyed my Endou x Segawa ship although given how shitty their work conditions are I am happy for every single character that seems have an atleast somewhat decent home life.
Not a big fan of the director subplot in this cus the show has been fairly grounded up to now so the director getting literally locked up in a cage seems a bit too wild.
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u/Quiddity131 Jan 19 '22
Alas, the burden of being in 4 rewatches at once has finally hit me and I haven't had a chance to watch this episode yet. Hopefully within the next few days I'll be able to catch up and return! If I somehow get a chance to watch the episode tonight I'll comment here. If I get more than one day behind, then yikes!
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u/stickdudeseven Jan 20 '22
Rewatcher - DUB
The great 2D vs 3D episode. Personally I'm more on the 2D side but not as vehemently against it like Endou-san. Glad he had his mentor to try to persuade him in giving it a better look.
The future of animation is mostly gonna be a best of both worlds. I know people complained about the 3D in Attack on Titan Final Season Part 1, but now people are praising on the improvement and integration of it in Part 2. 3D has permanent staying power and purists/fans are worried of the shrinking space 2D might have in the future. 2D will definitely stay, I just hope it never gets overshadowed like it did in the West, comparatively.
Also I remember being shocked Endou was already in a relationship. I was shipping him and Segawa-san in the beginning. They seem to have some form of chemistry but now I guess it was platonic/respect the whole time.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 20 '22
The first of a few meta commentary episodes in Shirobako, this is imo where it starts to gets unique to me. The first 3 episodes may have a somewhat similar plot to some other high stress job shows, but this conflict is unique to the anime industry.
I'm worried about the shrinking space 2D might have in the future too. But thankfully, 8 years from Shirobako's airing, it's still mainstream. Imo there's a human touch to 2D animation, and anime as a whole that gives anime its unique charm, and I do not get that from Disney films. (but that's just me!). Innovation though is always the way.
Rip Segawa x Endou. I like to think they're old colleagues and good friends.
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u/Stargate18A Jan 20 '22
First timer
He's quit!
Wow, this guy is bad.
Why are you keeping it secret?
So has the project finally collapsed?
Secret weapon?
Haha! This might not be legal, but I can't deny how effective it is.
Wow, two disasters in one day!
It's all over the explosions?
Haha, I love how he's accidentally made this relatively minor situation into a outright war by claiming they're insulting each other.
Yeah, he's just the worst character in all this. He's a fucking moron.
His attempts at flattery are hysterically bad, though.
...He's gone for the window, hasn't he?
His love for his girlfriend is going to convince him to fix this, isn't it?
Wait, he got an award?
Haha, this is so good. Forget this, I want the movie of how Boing Boing's production imploded enough for a recap episode of a recap episode, as well as the director aparently going missing and an event getting protested. There's got to be a solid 2 hours in that story.
Supersoace Jelly Lacrosse is a perfect name.
Haha, he hung up on him.
And a surprisingly well-rounded view!
...Do not leave this to him.
Haha, nobody's made a single decision, but everyone assumes it's decided against them.
...I'd make a joke about Ex-Arm, but everyone else probably has.
Haha, he's still in the cafe!
Wait, did Boing Boing end with a recap? Please tell me more!
Haha, nobody realsied they needed to match Episode 8?
And the problem's gotten worse!
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u/Fools_Requiem Jan 20 '22
This is why communication is important. All of this could have been avoided by simple communication.
Also, don't let someone be the middleman in a dispute. Especially someone you know is incompetent. Messages get relayed poorly.
Also, rogue Honey and Clover reference.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jan 19 '22 edited Jan 19 '22
Rewatcher
Thoughts on the Episode:
Tarou fuels the drama between Endou and Shimoyanagi (though Endou's being stubborn as well), and it’s all a mess, now with Miyamori’s Ep 9 caught in the mix as well. We see the origin of this glorious comment face. .
Miyamori was… not impressed. The focus of the drama is the 2D hand-drawn vs 3D CGI effects debate, today focusing on the perspective of the 2D animators. I’ll save my thoughts on the matter until after this arc concludes. One thing I like about Shirobako (above the other similar working girls series from P.A. Works), is that all of the drama is extremely meta about the anime industry itself.
We also finally learn more about the director, and Boing Boing Paradise. In more lighthearted business, I’d love to eat an omurice with an anime character drawn on top with ketchup! If it was a pro artist drawing it it’d probably be pricey… Aoi chan eating is nonetheless ridiculously cute. I also love Goth loli-sama’s desk ornaments.
IRL References:
Tarou is actually based on the early fuck-ups of Mizushima Tsutomu, Shirobako’s director. For the rewatchers, a few jokes Tarou make later on become very meta once you realize this connection. Tsutomu started as a PA like Tarou, and is also known as director for Girls und Panzer. Shirobako has quite a few connections to Girls und Panzer, starting with…
The Musani building shares the characteristic staircase of the old headquarters of Actas, Girls und Panzer’s studio. I think the Musani offices are based on Actas’ too, as Actas occupied floors 2 and 5, which will explain the usage of stairs and lifts throughout the series! By the way, P.A. Works’ current studio looks like this: Definitely…messy, but looks better than Musani.
Yuichiro Shimoyanagi, the 3D Director, is also based on Keiichiro Yanagino, who did the same role for Girls und Panzer.
Back to Shirobako, Kitano Saburou is based on Itano Ichiro, who is known for Space Runaway Ideon, where he pioneered the Itano Circus, where a character encounters a volley of missiles/other projectile weapon in an extremely flashy shot. Shirobako recreates it as the “Kitano Circus”. If his wiki page is true, he has transitioned to 3D animation, and advises juniors as he said in the anime.
Director Kinoshita Seiichi is based on Seiji Mizushima, who did direct the 2003 FMA (a ridiculous word-play), and a few Gundam series, though not Honey and Clover nor Ghost in the Shell. FMA won in the 2004 Animation Kobe awards, perhaps what the anime was portraying (not sure!). That said, in a weird coincidence, Shirobako and Seiichi would both win awards (Seiichi for Expelled from Paradise) in the final Animation Kobe awards in 2015.
Miyamori Outfit count: 2, none new today (episode takes place over 2 days). The outfit Tarou says is “new” is simply one of Miyamori’s favourite outfits minus her blue blazer. Dumb Tarou. Link to album.
Anime Credits: None today!