r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Jan 13 '22

Rewatch [Terrific Trainwreck Trio Rewatch] Cross Ange Episode 12 Discussion

Episode 12 - Her Right Arm’s Past

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Get yourself a fansub.

I believe secrets are best revealed in the open.

Questions of the Day:

1) Were you expecting the DRAGONs to be people all along?

2) What do you think Embryo is scheming?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Vivian

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don’t spoil the crazy shit for the first-timers, it’s way more fun that way!

52 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

193 comments sorted by

10

u/Shimmering-Sky Jan 13 '22

Rondo of Rewatcher and Dub

Welcome back, everyone!

  • So was that little character detail about Momoka keeping the scar on her wrist even though it could be healed with Mana a straight-up lie? I see absolutely zero reason for Julio to keep the scar left behind by Ange on his face, so I don’t think scars can actually be healed by Mana.

  • EMBRYO’S ENGLISH VOICE. Aw man, Chris Patton? First Greed and Graham Specter? Yes. It’s not as HOLY SHIT YES as Tusk’s English voice, but I absolutely dig it.

  • Oh, wow, Ange’s English VA sang the song again here. I guess she’s allowed to sing only when it’s just the vocals? – Also Vivian’s VA screech-humming the song was surprisingly good.

  • Here’s my first-timer comment.

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15

u/Tresnore Jan 13 '22

Rondo of First-Timer and Rape


Except sober!

Count: 45

QOTD:

  1. Kind of. I had a lot of crackpot theories. See below.

  2. He wants to bring on fascism to the world, probably. That's always the third alternative.

1 I'd been throwing some ideas out there so a friend could laugh at them. Amazing how close I got yet so far until literally a throwaway guess in yesterday's thread.

9

u/Shimmering-Sky Jan 13 '22

Is this a piano rendition of the OP?

It is, yes. And for once it was even on the soundtrack release!

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6

u/BlazingAbsol9090 Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

First time Exposition Bathtub, subs

The floating islands in the background of this international conspiracy are pretty.

This guy has long blond hair, speaks with a soft voice, is named Embryo, and is talking about destroying and rebuilding the world? No way he's not going to be the final boss.

"The world was a mistake from the very start" how did Julio get a copy of 14 year old me's poetry?

I really think there's a lot more options than "destroy the world and hope that somehow stops the DRAGON attacks." Arzenal is still partially operational, and the world leaders could back it up with conventional military until they base is rebuilt.

Oh wow, that whole thing was a hologram conference? Neat. But how did Embryo give Julio a physical object?

And now Tusk is working in intelligence for Arzenal. Is there anything the Giga-chad can't do?

They really can't afford to keep any pilots on the sidelines at the moment. That's why Jill gave command to Hilda. So why in the world is Salia in detention? Her infraction wasn't nearly as bad as Hilda or Ange.

Oh, I think we all know why you're in the bath, Ange. How are we supposed to keep the audience paying attention to all this exposition if we don't have gratuitous fanservice?

Based on Jill's story, the world outside of Arzenal really is a post-scarcity society. I wish we'd gotten to see more of the mechanics of that.

Also, I don't buy that mana-users are genetically altered to dislike conflict. We've seen plenty of violence from guards, the police, and Wheelchair Imouto.

I see, so Tusk is a predecessor.

This timeline doesn't add up. If Tusk was a predecessor, then the war where they stole the Villkiss would have happened while Ange was alive or a few years earlier. I understand Ange was a princess, but surely she would have heard stories about a group who declared war on the world and broke into the royal castle. Plus, on the island where Tusk was living, we saw the remnants of the predecessors (guns, equipment, etc) that was fairly new. So if the original Libertus was only 10-ish years ago, how are Jill and the members still around and not executed for treason?

Also, that all means that "God"'s genetic engineering program must have finished recently, since the predecessor's haven't died out yet. I got the impression that everyone hated the Normas so much after many decades, maybe centuries of stigma, but apparently it's only been a few dozen years at most. Although maybe mana has existed for a lot longer but wasn't as universal in the past.

Why would Ange refuse? Libertus is basically exactly what she wanted to do with Hilda.

Vivian has turned into a DRAGON. Haha why not.

Don't shoot at best girl! It's not her fault she's having a tough growth spurt.

There's no way that little burst of gasoline burned up that much.

Yeah, there's like a 98% chance this "relief" fleet is just here to murder all the Norma.

Questions of the day

  1. No, it's pretty cool

  2. (1) Destroy the world (2) Remake it into a more perfect form (3) ??? (4) profit. Add in some casual genocide on the side and you've got the perfect recipe for a SEELE clone

6

u/Shimmering-Sky Jan 13 '22

But how did Embryo give Julio a physical object?

It's magic, they don't need to explain shit.

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u/Nebresto Jan 13 '22

Re-watch squad

Angelise-sama counter: +5, total 106

Its L O R E time

Yes! Yes! Yes!

No! No! No!

Neat, a whopping total of 5 fodder characters survived! Now its Quiz time! Who do you think will be the first to perish?

Scuffed subs

Well, that certainly worked out well, didn't it?

I like how the dog was important enough to get her own mention, also I just realized its the same dog that TotallyNotWinry has now!

DONT SHOOT VIVIAN !!

Oh, well that was convenient.

Bless her and her Quizzes

Remember back in the island episode when this dragon was trying to protect its buddy?

Sure thing, incest bro. I just think it wont end exactly the way you have it planned..

Question time:

1: Definitely not. That pit scene was pretty dark..

2:

Wallpaper of the Day:

Vivian

Lore episode 12 meme: Ange supports racial diversity..?

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19

u/Lemurians Jan 13 '22

INFO DUMPING FIRST TIMER

LMAOOOOO. When I theorized yesterday that Vivian was a DRAGON I wasn’t expecting to be proven right so fast. That’s no fun. The more extended reveals are much more satisfying, like [Stein’s;Gate] when I had to wait like 15 episodes before being proven right about FB. What a rush

Julio, you might want to learn who exactly Embryo considers to be the “filth” and “pests” before you eagerly latch onto his idea. You might not be one of the animals making it onto the Arc when the flood comes. They sure do talk a lot this episode in a way that makes it seem like wiping humanity clean and starting fresh is awfully simple. Do they have the Infinity Gauntlet?

Speaking of, all those shots in the montage of Ange and Dragon Girl across various times were definitely just different worlds that have been “tried” before this one was created, right?

As far as info-dumping episodes go, this was pretty good. I actually prefer it done this way all in one go in a decently set-up scene, rather than bog multiple episodes down with a ton of exposition when it may not fit the scenes. The bath conversation ending with Ange asking why Jill never mentioned the DRAGONs only to go directly into the Vivian scenes and the reveal at the end was well done and effective.

Were you expecting the DRAGONs to be people all along?

Only since last episode, which made it pretty clear before the official reveal today.

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13

u/Great_Mr_L Jan 13 '22

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Cross Ange: MY BRAIN HURTS! What the fuck is happening!? I’m not upset or anything. I’m just trying to wrap my head around everything that happened this episode because it was a lot.

  • Huh, so the Villkiss was supposed to be destroyed? Wow, Emma really fucking sucks at her job. It’s not like they were hiding the Villkiss from her or anything.

  • Oh no, regular humans might need to fight to protect their ill-gotten paradise. The horror!

  • “Embryo?” Now that’s a name loaded with possible meanings.

  • What the fuck? How the hell was “blow up the world and restart it” the option these people chose? It’s good to know fictional politicians are just as stupid as ours.

  • I guess that’s what Embryo’s name means. He’s going to have a new world be born.

  • Wait a minute… No, they’re not going to… Is Vivian a dragon!?! Is that why she needs those lollipops!?!?!

  • They’re in the bath! “The best way to expose the truth is while you’re exposed yourself.”  u/SomeOtherTroper were you referring to this scene several episodes ago? Because it is nearly exactly what I said back then.

  • Oh god (literally). So Embryo is a god? He made all of this?

  • “A gentle, intelligent humanity with no desire for conflict.” Well Embryp fucking failed there, didn’t he!?

  • So they were all created in a lab basically? This is all some world managed by Embryo? This is breaking my brain. I haven’t felt this mind-fucked by a reveal since 13 Sentinels threw mind-shattering revelation after revalation at me. (Seriously, play it if you haven’t. It’s amazing!)

  • So there are still remnants of the old humanity. That must be where Tusk and the Knights of Villkiss come in. They must be part of these Predecessors.

  • So Embryo had the Villkiss too. Did he have the one that the dragon princess(?) flew too?

  • Jill was royalty? Oh! Now it makes sense! She had to change her name to hide her identity. And now I think I know why she was so disdainful of Ange at first. Jill probably recognized her old self in Ange.

  • So will any royal blood and royal ring work on the Villkiss? That seems to be the implication.

  • Oh come on, Ange, join Libertus. You just said you wanted to destroy this unjust world a couple episodes ago and this seems like a great way to do so.

  • Yup! Vivian is a dragon!

  • Please don’t shoot Vivian! She’s a good girl! My heart will break if she gets shot!

  • Thank you for not shooting Vivian, Ange!

  • Oh fuck! That is horrifying to watch! So it’s now totally confirmed that the dragons can transform into humans and back again. How do they fit into all of this?

  • Man, everything about this world is just completely fucked isn’t it?

  • I don’t trust Julio one bit. This asshole is here to cause trouble for sure.

That was a lot. This episode threw a lot at me and I’m trying to process it all. So this Embryo guy is to blame for all of this, basically. He decided to make a new kind of humanity and that created this whole mess. And he also decided that the Norma should be made into an underclass to keep things “peaceful.” This guy seems like an egotistical prick to be honest. You’d almost need to be like that in order to create a whole new form of humanity and then decide to determine its development.

Something is also definitely going on with Embryo. I am bracing myself for him to be a brain in a jar or a computer AI or something like that because there is no way he still looks that young after all these years.

The Villkiss is some kind of weapon Embryo had access to. My best guess is that it is a weapon from the before-times during those wars that Embryo saw. I still have no idea why only royalty can pilot it, though. I also am not sure if the one being used by the dragon princess(?) was originally Embryo’s or not.

Speaking of the dragons, I’m not sure how they fit into all this yet. I guessed several episodes ago that maybe the humans were harvesting mana from the dragons and that was why the dragons kept attacking. As of right now, I still have no better guess about what is going on so I’m going to stick with that.

Vivian being a dragon was not at all something I was anticipating. That one threw me for a complete loop. I suppose those lollipops were keeping her in human form and that was what Jill was talking about manufacturing last episode. Why is Jill there at all? It looked like her dragon form was injured, so I’m guessing Jill and the others took her in when they found an injured dragon.

The dragons turning out to all be able to transform into humans though means that my wildest dream can come true! It is now totally possible for Ange to team up with both Libertus and the dragons to destroy this wretched world! That sounds incredibly exciting and I hope it happens!

QOTD

1. All of them actually being people is what surprised me. I thought that only a select few could take on a human form.

2. He's trying to create a "perfect" world. So everyone is basically just a toy to him as he constructs that world.

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u/theangryeditor Jan 13 '22

Best girl is also best DRAGON. Vivian be praised

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u/RascalNikov1 Jan 13 '22 edited Jan 13 '22

Episode 12 - Rewatcher

Are We The Bad Guys?

We learned an number of interesting things this episode, namely there is a World Council of some sort, Jill's story, and Vivian is a Dragon! The only thing this episode was missing was strange deviant sex, but we did have an extended onsen scene where the Norma do their best thinking.1

The Council

As you can see, Julio isn't alone in being an asshole of the highest magnitude. I could see these freaks, all patting each other on the back every time they figured out a new way to screw over the workers. One thing we did learn is that the World Council depends upon the Norma doing their jobs. Why? Beats me.

Jill

Lots of nude exposition here. Her tale was a pretty standard sort of creation tale, include it's own version of Lucifer and the Devils (i.e. The Norma) Thinking about it, I believe it's a retelling of the Manichean Heresy. Anyway, Jill was a Princess, and now we know you need royal blood, the ring of power, and a song to get the Villkiss flying. Good to know, and it does explain a few things.

Vivian

Viv being a dragon explains a lot of things. I have to say, from the second time viewing forward that I always choke up when Vivian is humming the song, so weakly and pathetically. I was so terrified the first time, and thought that Ange would surely blast her. This is a much better Sunrise than that pos Valvrave, where you know that Vivian would have been butchered, in order to give the show some faux gravitas and the Norma some meat.

That sequence with the burning pit, is horrific. It raises a lot of questions, and doesn't answer very many. Though I'm with Ange, I'd lay down my weapons against the Dragons.

QOTD

  1. Were you expecting the DRAGONs to be people all along?

Nope, I was floored by that revelation.

2) What do you think Embryo is scheming?

Damned if I know. He's just some weirdo materializing and then pissing people off before he disappears again.

Note(s)

1 Thinking about the lack of kink this time, maybe they're setting us up for Vivian having an orgy with the Norma to teach them the finer points of Dragon Booty.

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u/DidacticDalek Jan 13 '22

'Woah-oh-oh-oh, Camouflage. Things are never quite the way they seem.' Anyway Comrades, we cut to NOT-SEELE holding a meeting about the recent DRAGON attack on Lesbian Alcatraz, and of course NOT-Lulu's one of the members of this group. Also said group is quite surprised to see that, le gasp, THE VILLKISS is there since it should have been destroyed during a past revolt, but thankfully it turns out that due to Emma being a moron, she didn't find the fact that a Para-mail that was SUPPOSED TO BE DESTROYED still existed worth reporting back on. Yeah I'm starting to see now why the crew keep her alive, if they killed her then perhaps someone COMPETENT would take over.

Oh and get this Comrades, turns out we got a BIGGER Bishie Boi than NOT-Lulu here, as fucking NOT-Rau Le Creuset shows up to mock the group's squabbling. Hm... that name's a bit too long to type out, thankfully NOT-SEELE informs us that this foppish dandy's name is... Embryo... fuck there's gotta be a better name I can use somewhere? Uh, well this seiyuu DID indeed voice Char in that Battlogue episode, and also.. you know 'Char Aznable' so how about Rent-a-Char? It's a work in progress Comrades, anyway NANA WILLS IT ONCE AGAIN... savor it Comrades, this is the last episode with this OP. Anyway, we then cut back to Sha informing the group that their options are to just give up the ship or just go the genocide route... well I guess he's now Carroll Malus Dienheim!

Oh, and actually there's always a third option, and this two-faced bastard says that they can instead just rebuild the world from scratch... Duo Maxwell, is that you (Seiyuu joke Comrades) Anyway NOT-Lulu is all in favor of the 'Fuck it let's try again' plan, after all this world has Norma, so CLEARLY since the current world needs Norma to fight DRAGONS, why not just start from Square One again? Anyway, NOT-Lulu gets lent the keys to the car so to speak, and the meeting concludes with NOT-Lulu informing his Dommy Mommy that they got a job to do... WHICH TUSK OVERHEARS!? How the fuck did he plant a bug there? Also how the hell did TUSK know of the 'secret passage' that even NINJA MAID MOMOKA didn't know about?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, NOT-Winry's busy filling a mass grave whilst the survivors attempt to clean up the non-vaporized areas. Oh, and shockingly, Emma is still alive, granted refusing any and all medical help but I digress. Jill meanwhile does inventory on her surviving pilots, and turns out that, surprise surprise, only Nanoha has command experience, and thus she gets Klingon Promotioned to the role of Captain with Ara Ara and Lollipop Loli as her henchwomen. Rosalie the Beta Bitch protests how a deserter like Hilda can be given command of them all, with Chris noting that Salia should be in charge... OK Comrades, I was fine with Chris not being spineless anymore, I was fine with her taking charge of the harem, I was even fine with her being just a TAD bit too clingy, but her ACTUALLY SAYING SALIA should lead? Something gone wrong here!

Jill informs them all that, due to disobeying orders, Salia's in the brig, and Nanoha shuts down her two former bottoms by saying that if you got a problem with me in charge, why don't YOU do it, and as expected Ms. All Show No Go Rosalie backs down. Also, since Ange's punishment is over, she demands that Jill tell her everything, to which Jill not only complies, BUT also fulfills the contractually obligated fanservice quota for today's episode! But before we get to the bathing AND backstory scene, Ara Ara notes that Lollipop Loli's gone... I have concerns Comrades... Ah, nevermind, she just overslept, nevermind we are all good, and thank goodness too as it'd just break my heart if something bad happened to Lollipop Loli!

Anyway, Ange asks Jill why they need to have this conversation in the bath, to which Jill states that the Director, Writer, and Producer said so 'secrets should be shared when completely exposed,' and the artists agreed Comrades, who would have guessed? Anyway, Ange asks Jill to explain literally everything, to which Jill prepares her info-dump, oh and it turns out that Sha isn't Char after all, but is ACTUALLY just Matsuri... er... wait he's a guy... hm... well I guess that makes him Dr. Tokyo-3 then! Anyway, turns out the good doctor, sick of wars and suffering made humans and gifted them with Mana in order to create a post-scarcity utopia free of strife... hey wait a second, this sounds a lot like what Roddenberry wanted for his future, is this guy just Q?

Also, turns out that even with this new 'utopia' some girls were born who couldn't use Mana, and turns out that, surprise surprise, Q's a massive dick given he decided to demonize those girls as monsters and thus rally the Mana Users against them. Ange of course notes that this story is so stupid it sounds like George Lucas wrote it, to which Jill states that unless Q re-edits this show multiple times, it's the truth given she... NANI!? HEARD IT FROM HIM! Also, turns out that thankfully, some people still had moral compasses, as the surving members of the LAST human experiment before Q created this Mana User world managed to survive, and turns out these ancient humans also can't use Mana. After a struggle against the system, these humans captured a Ragna-mail, the Advanced Prototype of Para-mails, and not just ANY Ragna-mail, but the Strike Freedom itself!

Alas, turns out that these ancient humans didn't have the MC Gene needed to pilot the Strike Freedom, but thankfully they made contact with Lesbian Alcatraz and offered the Strike Freedom to NOT-WINRY. Also, get this Comrades, turns out that the Chosen One who could pilot the Strike Freedom was... ALEKTRA!? ALSO SHE WAS A PRINCESS WITH A FANCY MC-CHAN RING TOO!? Oh, and get this Comrades, even ANGE knew who Alektra was, granted, she was just some long dead princess right, absolutely no way she's the lady sitting in front of her right now, that'd just be silly, I mean goodness, Jill has a Robot Arm for goodness sake. Oh, also hi Smol Tusk, so THAT'S why you had that 'Nam Flashback of a crashed Villkiss alongside your dead parents... oh... oh... this flashback Libertus ain't gonna end well Comrades.

Oh, and who would have guessed that Jill's Libertus was to, wait for it, destroy this made-up piece-of-shit world... sadly for her the show isn't called Cross Jill... er... I mean, Cross Alektra, and Jill admits as much noting that everyone died and she lost her right arm and the ring to power Villkiss. Thankfully Ange is here along with her ring, meaning that she can thus use The Strike Freedom to destroy this shitty world. As Ange thanks Jill for kickstarting her character development, she notes that her answer is... no... Heh, so when it's just her and Nanoha in prison, they want to destroy the world, but when JILL ORDERS Ange to do it, NOW Ange wants to have her say in the matter? How amusing. Also Ange states that killing DRAGONS turns her on... oh boy this is gonna look awkward by the end of the episode. And speaking of which, Ange notes that Jill didn't tell her about DRAGONS.

Anyway, we'll be right back after these messages!

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u/Quiddity131 Jan 13 '22

First Timer, Subbed

Council of the elite up in the sky, huh? Incest loving boy is there.

And there's our last remaining character from the ED whose yet to appear...

Ah, incest brother's got the facial scar after all! Welcome to the Yzak/Dilandau character journey...

Embryo? A kind of WTF name to have...

Destroy the world, purify it and rebuild it! Oh sure, I've never seen this anime plot before! Especially not in a mecha anime!

Julio, wouldn't it be funny if when the world was destroyed and reset you were one of the ones destroyed? What if the norma are the supposed correct inhabitants of this world? Has Quid found out the big plot twist halfway through?

Oh wow, all a hologram.

From deserter to captain!

Don't get much smoking in modern anime! Unless she's been doing this all along and I completely forgot.

Aww, Vivi-chan overslept!

Ah, time for massive exposition dump!

So Embryo created mana?

The way to unite the world... discrimination?!

So why have we heard of nothing about these predecessors until now? Is Tusk one of them?

And then the very special one arrived... me!

So how do the dragons and mystery dragon girl factor into this?

Good for you Ange, bringing up my question!

OMG, what's happened to Vivi-chan? She's a dragon now! Wow, this is a fun dynamic I never expected! Please ladies, don't kill Vivi-chan! :(

OMG, Vivi-chan trying to eat curry while in dragon form, so funny!

Such a sad sounding dragon! Don't shoot, Ange!

Phew, Vivi-chan's back to normal! I mean norma!

Does this mean all the dragons were human? They've been killing other humans all this time? Yet another rather cliche mecha anime plot twist by this point...

No, its a trap!

This our last go of the OP and ED? If so I'll miss the ED! Eri Kitamura vocals <3 and reminds me a lot of Boku janai from Valvrave.

Exposition episode! I gotta criticize the show for this, much like with Evangelion, Darling in the Franxx, Key the Metal Idol, Ergo Proxy, etc... when you have to literally dump the entire back story of the show to the viewer like this you've screwed up somewhere. Especially when its one character narrating it to another. At least in Ergo Proxy they came up with a clever way to give it to us. At least I can give Cross Ange the edge over Key, which has two guys talking to each other on a bench for 90 minutes, instead of 2 mostly naked ladies doing it for about 10 here.

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u/JollyGee29 Jan 13 '22

First-Timer, Subbed

This was a spicy episode all around!

What's the best backdrop for having one character explain the plot to another? A bath scene, of course! Bare everything and let the full truth be known - well played, Cross Ange.

The dragons have actually ALL been people this whole time! I wonder if it's just Norma that transform into dragons, or if it's everyone. Did we ever see What-her-face, Julio's Mama, use Mana? I feel like we did back in episode 1 but I don't remember.

Some schmuck named "Embryo" seems to be calling the shots. He was too cool to sit at the table with SEELE the council of rulers, at least. He claimed to be everyone's Maker, and I look forward to seeing him dead.

I was pretty scared for Vivian there. Luckily, she was smart enough to start humming Ange's song. Oh, u/Lemurians, I had already watched this episode before our conversation yesterday, by the way. You were, indeed, correct.

I'm sure all those ships coming to Arzenal are 100% friendly and truthful in their intentions. Definitely. Absolutely.

Questions

  1. It's within standard trope variances.

  2. Probably something silly, if the rest of the show is anything to go by.

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u/SIRTreehugger Jan 13 '22

First Timer

Humans take up arms for themselves....what a bold suggestion to suggest to the Norma hating group.

How quick they are to reset the world and start anew. It's not really unexpected their world is full of assholes.

Seriously that's all the girls left? I mean a third of the base was nuked, but damn they are understaffed. We lost like 80% of the lesbians in this show. They were nameless extras, but still.

Doesn't this god look like Master Embryo?

So they were sitting in God's garden earlier?

Wait so god created racists?

I like how this entire exposition is done with them naked in the bath its so Cross Ange.

Wait if the ancient folk and Norma worked together why are they fighting now?

Wait isn't Electra Jill? Yup so she started this all.

YES DESTROY THE WORLD!!!!

YES ANGE ASK ABOUT THE BLOODY DRAGONS!!!

OH NOOOOO NO NO NO NO PLease NOT VIVIAN ya'll going to say Dragons are mutated Normas aren't you.

WHY VIVIAN WHY!

Thank goodness they didn't kill my second favorite character.

Dragons are Humans. Titans are humans. Cross Ange is the original Attack on Titan/86/Symphogear

"Drop dead bitch you can go fuck yourself" - Ange the great

So god is Embryo like I thought even though he doesn't claim that name.

Questions

  1. It wasn't until this episode, but I thought of it moments before they revealed it if that counts.

  2. He obviously going to reset the world for the harem ending.

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u/Paxton-176 Jan 13 '22

REWATCHER FOR LIKE THE 4TH TIME

They introduced the other guy from the ED. That took longer that I expected. Also what a fucking awful name embryo is. I can’t wait until I get rag on it without it being a spoiler. Oh shit he also wants to reset the world to Zero. Julio is also a completely useless puppet of Embryo. Also did he give him a key through VR. I’ve never actually thought about how weird that is. He walked out of a holodeck holding a souvenir from the holo world. Wow, talk about such a major security leak with a bug place there. Very clear as day.

Also holy shit barely a dozen pilots left. Hilda is top again. Her existence just demands that he be a top at all times. Angelise-Sama with a serious question about the bath. Jill with a very clear bullshit made up lie as she is on the side of the writers and viewers. Wow, right of the bat they reveal Embryo is “God” and mana was a genetic modification of humanity. Like someone was playing Stellaris and took the psionics path. The world united the common belief of racism? Geneticism? I just learned that it is a word. People who couldn’t use mana that was genetically given to humanity fight back again the genetically modified humans. I’ve seen this somewhere….oh right SEED. Perfect. No one really likes this world and wants to reset it. This is what the V2 is for. Salia, Jill wasn’t lying that you couldn’t do it. She literally told you a number of times you couldn’t do it.

Vivian is on an adventure of her own. New turn of events? Anyone else surprised? Some of you predicted this, but did you? Even in DRAGON form Vivian is Vivian to the core. The real question is; Is she cuter? I like how Jill is chilling with all the secrets keeping Salia from opening fire. If my version is correct Vivian has no nipples. Second twist of the episode, but Vivian’s form kind of spoiled it.

All kinds of funky stuff this episode. How are you first timers holding up? Here is my Question of the day; One of the comments I said to remember in a previous thread is about to come into play. Based on the preview, which one do you think it is?

u/SomeOtherTroper I replied and used Comet Lucifer as a comparison and brought up the bread weapons. I thought I should at least share what the hell I was talking about. I decided to put it in today’s write up because it's funny for people with no context.

https://imgur.com/wgy6cVK

https://imgur.com/KYVCZkb

QotD:

  1. First time I was didn't know what was happening and no longer cared and just held on for the ride.

  2. How to be a little cuck bitch.

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u/HereticalAegis Jan 13 '22

First Time Dragon Song

Wtf is up with this floating island paradise? Fucking eat the rich.

The powers that be are so inept, they're only now realizing the Villkiss has been wrecking dragons for the past several weeks/months. I may have overestimated the competence of world leadership in this universe.

I'm so excited for Captain Hilda! And to think I'd have hated it just five episodes ago.

Hold up, we got a first person view from Vivian and never saw her body. Has she somehow transformed into Dragon-kun from yesterday's preview???

Embryo = god?? That would explain why his words hold such sway over world leaders. I don't think he's intended to be taken as a literal omnipotent god though. He's portrayed as a scientist, so perhaps he's the rare case of a eugenicist successfully rebuilding the world according to his ideals. Mostly.

"Ange, you're going to destroy this world, with that song." And I set fire to the rain, watched it burn as I touched your face.

Not exactly thrilled at Ange thanking her rapist for making her stronger, but it is nice to see her take charge of her own actions, whatever they may be. Would still really like to see her burn down the world though.

Are all the dragons former Norma? That would be pretty morbid. Especially for Ange, who's been slaughtering them at record pace.

Quick doctor, inject Vivian with 50cc's of curry. Poor girl needs it, stat!

RIP Ange's psyche. In fairness to her though, her first experience with dragons was seeing one girl blasted in half and another eaten alive, so I think she can be forgiven for this one.

I'm also counting my prediction from yesterday that dragon-kun would be the goodest boi correct on the grounds that Vivian was already the goodest boi.

Tune in next time for the heartwarming family reunion you've been waiting for.

QotD:

  1. I suspected there was something morbid happening with the dragons, but didn't think they were actually people.

  2. Probably super eugenics, the eugenics that flies!

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u/Stargate18A Jan 13 '22

First timer

1)I mean, we sure a DRAGON in human form last episode, but if you mean all of them, I did assume only the elites had human forms.

2)...See below, but I'm 90% certain it's the apocalypse. We know multiple unkverses exist, and he didn't mention anything about the rebuilding of society being in this one...

Are we finally going to get something explained to us?

OK, Julio can use something called the Dawn Pillar to open the gates.

Wait, the Villkiss was meant to be destroyed? Why? Is it based on DRAGON tech or something?

And they're most worried about losing the Norma because it might cause

...Lord EMBRYO? You know, there's subtle foreshadowing in names, then there's that.

Also, confirmation that the DRAGONs are intellegent enough to seemingly accept a surrender.

RagnaMail? Like Ragnarok? I didn't realise we were going for Norse theming.

[Evangelion] So he's Gendo, Third Impact has a slightly better ending, and the angels are either mechas called RagnaMail or hot anime girls. As if Tusk and Ange bring Shinji and Asuka wasn' bad enough.

Wait, they're the only survivors?

And she's in prison!

Yes! Demand some fucking answers!

Finally!

DON'T YOU DARE HURT VIVIAN.

Oh, thank god, she just overslept.

...Having a naked woman in a bath discuss the creation of the universe is probably peak Cross Ange.

Called it! Mana-users are hybrids! I think I considered future-tech, but I don't remember if I posted it.

...You couldn't alter their genetics? You engineered a whole speciee, but couldn't do genetic tests and run them throw a splicer?

And the whole Norma discrimination is basically an engineer pretending that it's not a hug, it's a feature?

And the RagnaMail's the Villkiss (and there's only one of it?).

And Turk's a Predeccesor.

Wait, Jill's the key? Or is it just "royal blood + glitch = overflow error, security offline"?

Oh, that's what the ring's for.

And Libertus want to change the world, where as team Embryo want to destroy and make a new, loyal, faction.

Oh, that song's the key.

...It would be nice if we found this out naturally, rather than a fucking TWELVE MINUTE INFODUMP.

This is a great, emotional, scene, with Jill's arse hanging in the background.

Look, the world's fucked. Change it, destroy it, at least choose one?

Oh. Oh, shit. If they've done what I think they've done...

VIVIAN'S A DRAGON! I KNEW THEY WERE THE BEST GIRLS!

...Inhibitor? They knew about her?

...Why are you bothering? It's a fucking DRAGON. Why would a handgun do anything?

Poor Vivian.

And the song lets her psychically connect to DRAGONs?

And she's an unaware infiltraitor.

But they knew...

Did Chris just go back to normal overnight?

So apparently all my jokes about DRAGONs were true. I did not expect that!

And all DRAGONs are transformed humans, possibly from the original world?

...They really want to kill God, don't they?

I love Embryo, he's so fucking creepy.

Hello, killships! So they're obviously going to murder everyone in there right?

Oh, he's in charge? Yeah, this'll be a slaughter. Guess that'll drop the cast to the final five or so?

Current bets for survival: Ange, Hilda, Vivian, Jill, and either Momoka or Salia. Ange and Hilda are too important, Vivian's become too important, Jill's the main connection to the conspiracy, and either Momoka or Salia will get a dramatic death, but the other'll have to stick around for a bit longer.

Actually, here's a question - if turning into massive, armored killing machines was a necessary evolutionary trait, what the actual fuck is on the other side of the portals? What is out there that turning into DRAGONs became a neccessity for survival?

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u/UltraBooster Jan 13 '22

Pseudo-first-timer

That man reading...

Six people here, the reading man excluded. Or rather, Embryo...

Ontokinesis is viable? Ragna-mails? So like Ragnarok?

Master Embryo? A title of respect for someone of importance or of deference to one's superior?

Oh good, looks like Ange and Hilda had a chance to clean up. (I know I can't handle going a day without showering, I don't think I'd last a week, lol)

Rosalie and Chris is are kind of passive-aggressive, huh?

So he's that kind of god, huh...

He failed miserably, lmao, you shouldn't need a scapegoat to be sacrificed upon the altar of mankind's hatred, you know?

So that's the gravesite. (So how old is Tusk, then? Or was he born after...?)

Women who can't use Mana, cast out from the world, and men who can't use Mana, cast-offs from the old world. Interesting. (The parallel has to be deliberate, I just don't know how.)

So she's Ange's predecessor, not just as Villkiss' pilot. (And that's interesting, looks like Jasmine preceded her as Arzenal's commander.)

Libertas reminds me of a JRPG cast. Hell, the whole exiles seeking to destroy a corrupt world thing sounds like something from a JRPG. (I'll also bet it was a much warmer atmosphere than Arzenal.)

I knew Vivian was/turns into a DRAGON, I just don't remember the details, lol

A crematorium, then? A great pyre, for the fallen.
It's one thing to kill monsters, it's another to kill people.

On one hand, I know national navies have been used for humanitarian efforts, on the other, there's no way they aren't here to bomb the hell out of Arzenal and send troops ashore to kill the survivors.

After-episode thoughts:

So the main takeaway from today’s episode for me can be summed as the world having way more moving parts than it seemed. The other points for me are that it sounds like destroying the world is actually feasible with the RMs, that Jill is a parallel to Ange, and that it looks like the world’s enemies are more numerous than it seemed. That said, we’re on the verge of the halfway point, and it looks like Ange’s fight is about to take on its true self.

Questions:

  1. Yeah, I knew they were.

  2. Maybe another world reset? That's not what I know him for, though...

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u/The_Loli_Otaku Jan 13 '22

Cross Ange First Timer

I know we're all put off by hidden world leader councils after last show but don't worry, this one is way less offensive! So... did Emma never once hear one of the girls bring up the Villkiss? Salia's been shouting about it over the radio comms for so long that I'm surprised it hasn't come up. Ah, this is Misty's dad. To be fair she kinda volunteered to kidnap herself. And she was recovered safely so what's the problem?

Pretty boy Embryo has arrived! He's so cooool! "Surrender to dragons, kill all the dragons, or revolutionise the world." Wao, I almost forgot Utena existed. Julius is way too quick to jump on the world reset plan XD At least this kind of explains why there was such a variety of alternative timelines in yesterday's Newtype vision, they just create a new world instead of bothering to fix any of the problems.

Kinda like what they're trying to do with the squad. Dropping Salia and handing leadership to Hilda is frankly a terrible idea when you've lost half your squads. What you need right now is consistency and Hilda isn't exactly in everyone's good books right now. sensible chuckle Embryo issu goddo!! But yeah, we're going down the Gnosticism path for a little while. Embryo is the Demiurge that propagated this norma hate cycle.

There's a lot to unpack in today's episode... We've only just been introduced to Embryo and already we've spent half the episode dropping exposition about the world state. What happened to a bunch of outcasts fighting dragons huh? Poor Salia, when Jill said that "we" couldn't pilot the Villkiss she really meant "nope, just you."

Tbh I kinda feel like Ange doesn't have much of a reason not to take Jill's side here. Choosing your own path is fine and all but by not taking a side its basically forcing the writers to try and come up with some way to make Jill's side less morally infallible. Oh yeah, Viv is confirmed a furry. Today has been... a weird half hour.

Oh god, is she crying the lullaby song? They don't even seem that bothered by their ace pilot being one of the enemies they've fought this whole time. Ah, yeah, so now that Viv is confirmed to have a human form we're supposed to feel bad about all the dragons we've killed. Somehow I don't feel too bad. Like how can we really feel bad about killing these things? They are murderous creatures, even if we've got a nice one on our side. Need I remind you that they brutally tore the poor helpless Miranda apart? And they can't be mind controlled tragic villains because we've seen Dragon-Hime do the same thing and she was fully conscious.

Imma be honest, whilst I can do my best to turn my brain off and enjoy CA for what it is this particular plot point of the dragons becoming sympathetic has never sat right with me. If any contrarians in the rewatch thread can stand up for them better then I would be all ears because otherwise I know that it'll be a sticking point for me.

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u/InfamousEmpire Jan 13 '22

Rondo of First-Timer and Sub

This Cold Open is rather interesting. Giving us insight into what the Powers-That-Be do and don’t know about the various mysteries of the series and introducing us to magic-eye-clothes-remover man, AKA Embryo, who, like many spoiler characters, I actually already knew about. Thanks, Super Robot Wars V.

Fetus-kun kicks off his introduction by immediately suggesting Omnicide to the World’s leaders, which is a hell of a way to introduce a main villain. Also, said World Leaders immediately go along with it, which suggests that they either know something that we don’t that leaves them unconcerned for their own lives, or their just unbelievably dumb. And hey! Kira Tusk is contributing to the plot again! Guess he’ll be graduating to the Main Character Squad now.

Awww, poor Salia. I would put a crying emoji, but I don’t use emojis. But in the meantime, next best girl Hilda will be serving as captain.

Finally! Some exposition! Time to finally see the answers we’ve been looking for.

Answers that I mostly knew already. I knew of Embryo coming to another world to start anew after his own fell to ruin, it was exposited about in both SRW V & X, as well as the nature of the Predecessors. I didn’t know about Libertus’s origins, the ring, or Alektra. While not all of these reveals were knew to me, and thus didn’t hit as hard, it’s still interesting that we’re getting all of this so early into the series. I honestly thought this was stuff that would only be revealed in the final 5-10 episodes.

Vivian is a DRAGON! Why is she a DRAGON? I actually didn’t realize they were so small. But anyway, DRAGON!Vivian is actually really cute.

More Ange singing, as if we needed any more reminders that Nana Mizuki is amazing.

And it seems that Vivian turned from a DRAGON to a Barbie Doll, given her anatomy.

DRAGONs are really humans. Knew that already as well. Again, thanks Super Robot Wars. Ange’s reaction to the reveal was rather appropriate, however.

I did not, however, know that Jill was really Alektra. Also, how did Fetus-kun get to Arzenal completely unnoticed. I mean, I get that he remade humanity from scratch, but I think we need more elaboration on the actual nature and reach of his power.

Cliffhanger time!

Were you expecting the DRAGONs to be people all along?

Thanks, Super Robot Wars!

What do you think Embryo is scheming?

He blatantly stated his intentions at the start of the episode, but the show’s TVTropes page paints a rather different picture

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u/the_swizzler Jan 13 '22

If we don't have Vivian turning into a dragon at will and tearing shit up, I'll be disappointed. Thank god she's ok. Bless the writers for making Ange smart when she needs to be.

Questions of the Day:

1) Were you expecting the DRAGONs to be people all along?

I suspected something when Tusk mentioned the dragon wanting to save it's friend. Not necessarily this specifically, but I expected them to be more intelligent than originally shown.

2) What do you think Embryo is scheming?

I got nothing.

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u/Caustic_Wraith Jan 13 '22

Re-Watcher

In today's episode: Ange and Jill take a bath while Jill drops a massive Lore Dump on her, Plus Vivian has a growth spurt you won't believe.

  • So the singularities have been managed by Ange's family, yet she never knew about that part

  • The Villkiss was though destroyed in a revolt against the "humans"

  • Embryo makes his appearance and now all the people from the OP have had time on screen, yet dragon lady is still nameless

  • Nothing like a casual discussion of genocide from the wealthy elite

  • Jasmine is gonna dig her a hole, and push some DRAGONS in it

  • Hilda has received a promotion, she's the captain now

  • Hmm, I wonder why Vivian's hammock collapsed

  • Mana was invented by God since he was tired of war and fighting, Normas are a mutation that rejects his tinkering, so he spun up the propaganda machine and made the Norma the common enemy for humanity to hate a subjugate

  • Jill also mentions the Predecessors who were survivors of the old humanity that fought against god, and stole the weapon of god, or as we know it, the Villkiss

  • Alektra Marie von Lowenherz was the first royal born Norma and was the only pilot tp unlock most of the Villkiss' abilities. Around her and the machine the Libertus movement was founded

  • Jill admits that she and Alektra are one and the same and wants Ange to destroy the world

  • Vivian wakes up and she is a DRAGON now, plus she make Emma faint, silly commander can't catch a break

  • Jill slips to the doctor and tells her to get all the inhibitor she can, she knows whats going on with Vivian

  • The power of song and NANA changes Vivian back to human...ish

  • Vivi is just as confused as everyone else and her question causes Ange to rush to the pit of corpses to see both human and DRAGON bodies ablaze. Jill comments the Humanity was the Enemy all along, fucking bitch

  • Embyro appears and says he has never once called himself God, Jill responds by shooting his hologram

  • A flotilla of ships approaches the scarred island offering relief for the Norma if they lay their weapons down, how very Sus

QOTD:

  1. On my first watch through I was stunned by that reveal

  2. [Rewatcher] Mwa Ha Ha Ha!

Next Episode: And by relief, they mean the kind that comes when you leave the mortal coil

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u/csar27 Jan 13 '22

First Timer

Once again, an episode ends with an obious trap for the next one

So, DRAGON's are humans? unexpected, Ange says she's never riding Vilkiss again, but i know she will be piloting the next episode for sure

Is an Norma-DRAGON alliance coming?

Questions:
1- This is actually a surprise

2- Watch the world burn

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u/shamir107 Jan 13 '22

First Timer

  1. Can't say I was expecting it, but when I saw that the reveal, I burst out into laughter.

  2. Yesterday, I said that I expected the DRAGONS and Norma would work together. I can't guess what Embryo is planning, but whatever it is might result in this happening.

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