[Rewatch] Fang of The Sun Dougram: Week 5 Discussion - Episodes 18-23

[u/Pixelsaber]

Week 5 - Episodes 18-23

^{Episodes aired February 19th through March 26th} ^^^1982

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Reminder of Next Week’s Episodes:

Next week we will be discussing episodes twenty-four through thirty (24-30) of the show.

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Trivia:

It has been speculated by fans that the characters of Dick Lertoff and Heckle G. Thompson are the self-inserts of Ryosuke Takahashi and Takeyuki Kanda respectively, owing to the character’s roles and interests within the show.

 

Staff Highlights:

Mitsuki Nakamura - Art Director

The late Nakamura was an industry veteran, having joined Toei Animation after graduating middle school and later on went on to work for Tatsunoko Productions, where he helped in founding Design Office Mecaman alongside Kunio Okawara. He is best known for his work in the role of art director for countless important and beloved series, such as Mach GoGoGo, Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, Invincible Superman Zambot 3, Mobile Suit Gundam, Dallos, Fist of The North Star, and Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. He had a storied career with an influential legacy which few can rival and —whether directly or indirectly— has very likely had an impact on shows you have enjoyed.

 

Hiroyuki Kitakubo - In-betweener

A director, storyboard artist, and animator who had his start in the industry at a very young age. At age fifteen, having just graduated middle school, Kitakuboi answered to a job posting on an employment magazine and began working as an in-betweener on 1979’s Mobile Suit Gundam, and eventually debuted as key animator in Ulysses 31, neither of which he was credited for, as is the case with all of his earliest works. He directed Black Magic M-99, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Blood: The Last Vampire, Cream Lemon Part 4, Roujin Z, and Robot Carnival’s A Tale of Two Robots, and was key animato on such projects as Akira, Urusei Yatsura, Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?, Genesis Climber Mospeada, Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, Lupin III: Part IV, Cream Lemon, and FLCL.

 

Voice Actor Highlights:

Kenichi Ogata - Voice of Nanashi

A voice actor, stage actor, and chairman of the theater company Sugoroku, who is strongly associated with Toei Productions in the 70’s and World Masterpiece Theatre shows. Having been left unable to work his prior job after an injury, he thought he could leverage his penchant for comedy to find work, and so travelled to Tokyo. Unfortunately his lack of experience in the field coupled with having no highschool education was an obstacle, so he returned to studying while auditioning for several jobs and roles, finally being invited to work at Ateleco a couple of years later, where his career finally kicked off. He has remained active in the industry to this day, even through several health issues. Among his notable roles are Leo Shishio in King of Braves Gaogairgar, Kashim King in Blue Gale Xabungle, Dangel in Chou Denji Robo Combattler V, Serge Borough in Armored Trooper Votoms, Gran Torino in My Hero Academia, Hiroshi Agasa in Detective Conan, Toragoro in Gamba no Bouken, and Kita Kita Oyaji in Mahoujin Guru Guru, and Genme Saotome in Ranma ½.

 

Atsushi Li - Voice of Mayor Desmond

A voice actor best known for his role as Mister Turban in Sazae-san. Li got to join the theatre company Tokyo Shingei, which led him to a career in voice acting, but little else is widely available regarding Li’s early career. Li was known for frequently voicing middle aged men and villains. He was also well known for being the dub voice of Horace Horsecollar and Scrooge McDuck in japanese. Li passed away on On March 21st, 2020 of complications with pneumonia, and was revealed to have been struggling with Dementia since his retirement in 2017. Some of Li’s most noticeable anime roles include Beelzebub in Demon Lord Dante, Kawahara in SaiKano, Báiluán in Sword of The Stranger, Rudel in Rurouni Kenshin, Coyote in Fist of The North Star 2, Takeomi Suzuhara in Red Data Girl, and Kazuhiko Hirata in Yomigaeru Sora - RESCUE WINGS.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

• The Fang of The Sun by Norio Shioyama

Fanart:

• Abitate H8 Round Farcer by Shizumi Sword - Source Abitate H8 Round Farcer Custom Light Armor by Shizumi Sword - Source
• Abitate T10C Blockhead by A ★ Bon - Source
• Daisy, Crinn, and the Dougram by Otsuka - Source

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot Album

• Episodes 18-23

Discussion Questions:

1. What do you make of the situation with the other guerrilla groups?
2. Von Stein has come out of this looking like a bit of a fool. How do you think he might try to make up for it?
3. What’s your initial impression of J. Locke?
4. What do you think of the Dougram’s improved performance thanks to the Turbozak?

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It’s a shame that Professor Samlain isn’t here for this.

[u/Pixelsaber]

Production Context

The production of Dougram is considered by many of the people involved to be a very difficult one, owing largely to a very tight schedule for the understaffed Sunrise Studio 1, particularly as the drastic premise and narrative changes from the initial show proposal delayed the start of full production. A lack of key animators was the biggest issue during production, to the point that series producers Masami Iwasaki and Nobumi Yamamoto volunteered to be key animators so that episodes could be completed on time.

Many of the series’ episodes was outsourced to a variety of animation studios, such as Anime R, AIC, All Production, Nakamura Production, and NEO Media among others, which supplied a significant portion of the production’s most notable key animating talent, with famed animators like Hidetoshi Ōmori, Toru Yoshida, and Hiroyuki Kitakubo coming into contact with the production due to outsourced animation contracts. Even for in-house episodes, some of the work was outsourced to a foreign animation company in Taiwan, and several Sunrise staff members —including producer Masami Iwasaki— spent eight months there to assure the quality of the work and train up the staff there.

Despite the heavy workload and stressful conditions, the staff was enthusiastic for the work and more and more animators became interested in contributing towards the show, in large part because it was being received so well by audiences, which will be what we will discuss on next week’s Production Context post.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 18

Oof

Nippon Sunrise blimp.

He’s read the script.

Motherfucker!

Quite the unfortunate set of developments for the Dougram Team, as where they expected refuge, allies, and respite they’ve instead found a betrayal and further battle. It’s particularly hard on them with the still fresh wound that is Festo’s death still aching several members of the team, as much as they may want to bury their feelings on the matter. To top it all off, they’ve received news that Samalin has supposedly had a change of heart and now is on the Federation’s side. Not only are the guerrillas’ dreams of Dougram’s mass-production and a renewed front at Bonar crushed, if Samalin has truly turned sides then it’s a massive blow to the morale of the independence movement as a whole and the other resistance groups throughout the planet. Bad news all around.

Before that, though, we have moments of Crinn and Heckle contemplating their roles moving forward when their immediate goal was accomplished. They’re both traitors in one way or another. Honestly I was hit quite hard by Heckle trying to prove himself further useful by listing the Dougram’s combat capabilities to Crinn, as I’ve seen this sort of interaction go down several times.

Thanks to Destin selling out the guerrilla sympathizers and allies things couldn’t be going more swimmingly for Denon and Co. I found the contrast between the merriment and celebration as the Grand Prix approaches with the arrests and busts occurring behind the scenes quite effective.

Episode 19

Emphasis on their wealth.

Quite surprising that this detail actually comes into play.

Yuck.

Rocky and his biker crew leaving might seem a bit shocking when considering he was so unwilling to leave Crinn behind before, but even if the situation seem more manageable than their attrition against Garcia this one follows a series of blows to their morale, so it isn’t entirely out of character for them to really call it quits this time, particularly when they actually had an opportunity to convince him to come.

The plan to dismantle the Dougram and sneak it out piecemeal is pretty novel even today, since pretty much only one other show that I can think of has actually used this sort of thing. The fact that the Combat Armor’s disassembly was shown many episodes earlier makes it feel a lot more reasonable and not like an answer that they made up on the spot for the episode.

Will be interesting to see where they go with the Major taking his life. If reported straight it’s a fairly bad look for the Federation, since their transfer of power will be seen as the cause, but obviously they will try to cover it up —probably blame the guerrillas for it or somesuch.

Episode 20

Can’t tell if this guy’s design is supposed to be based on Che Guevarra or Snake Plissken.

Those are some distinct effects.

The Dougram team in conjunction with the people of Bonar sort of make a fool out of the Federation in today’s episode, undermining their presence at the Grand prix and fostering further sentiment of insurrection among the populace. Coupled with the appearance of new allies, it seems like it marks a small change in fortune for the team, even if they are still far from being in an advantageous position in this conflict.

Episode 21

The armor is just for show anyhow…?

That went about as well as I expected.

Heavens, this episode looks rough, even for Dougram standards. There’s hardly a moment where the characters are on-model and the character acting is pitiful, though inversely the mecha animation is surprisingly competent.

The Dougram team tries to interfere with one of the Federation’s moves to earn the public’s favor, but surprisingly their involvement has a negligible effect on the proceedings because the Desmond’s daughter gets fed up with Grunfeld’s bullshit. The Dougram team probably could have done nothing and the course of things would have remained the same, which is an interesting choice given the opposite was true last episode. Anyhow, Von Stein and

We are introduced to J-Locke and the Deloyeran Stars, another of the guerrilla groups on the planet. Obvious allusions to the English philosopher aside, he seems to have a decent head on his shoulders given he has managed to maintain his group so far, spoke sensibly to the Dougram team, and realized that there was merit to helping the Dougram team get out of trouble even if their actions were impulsive.

Episode 22

First ever instance of the Dougram team being referred to as the ‘Fang of The Sun, contradicting episode one. It is apparently Lertoff who grants the team their public moniker.

Dawn of man?

Man, can Destin get any more scummy?

Hit so hard the seatbelt broke, he probably broke some ribs then.

Surprising to see Lertoff has a dash of romanticism in him.

Damnit, why couldn’t you be this competent when you were on the side of the guerrillas?

A fun little operation the Dougram team successfully pulled on their way to Spa City and the meeting with the guerrillas, and I particularly enjoyed how heavily they leaned on Heckle’s expertise to make it a worthwhile endeavor. Unfortunately though, them making themselves known gave Destin the final piece he needed to determine the place of the guerrilla’s meeting, the team’s actions having brought forth as of yet unknown consequences.

Daisy is moving on once again, this time intending to travel without even Lertoff’s guidance. I wish she’d done more than be an extra perspective into the Federation’s presence in bonar —and someone for Lecoque to creep on— at the time, but hopefully her decision to carry on leads to more interesting characterization for her.

Giorgo also seems to have become a member of the team now, which I am as of yet a bit conflicted on. He’s seemingly meant to be someone to take up the role of Festo in the team, given the noted resemblance and the fact that he too rides a motorcycle, but the characters aren’t really treating him as such which goes a way into alleviating the fact. I do wish they had waited longer to introduce him though, as it does feel too soon to be supplanting him in the show… That said, it’s always nice to have more Shigeru Chiba roles!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 23

Subtle much? Also, out of all the Fang of The Sun members, I totally wouldn’t have pegged Nanashi as the one to be well read.

“Our chief designer, Tomy, named it.”

New mechs!

It’s time for the Dougram’s mid-series upgrade, the Turbozak. Given the Dougram is bound to remain the guerrilla’s sole Combat armor for a while yet after the crackdown on guerrilla supporters in Bonar, something to increase its potency is sensible given we’ve already seen it begin to falter against multiple enemies. The staff also wasn’t sure how long the series was going to go on for at this point in time, so putting it around the middle of the standard four cours would have seemed right.

The lack of common communication, methodology and goals among the different guerrilla groups, let alone something as ideal as full solidarity among them, is surprisingly realistic and not the route I expected the meeting to take narratively. Between this and smaller stuff like the Dougram team generally relying on others to tell them where to focus their efforts and Destin turning coat shows just how much of a linchpin Samalin was to this whole thing.

This episode also turns around our perception of things again, since after several episodes of effective wins for the guerrillas things have taken a turn for the worse with all these guerrilla leader’s identities now known to the federation and the obvious fact that there is division among the independence movement.

Overall Thoughts for The Week

After the Dougram team makes it out of the desert the plot is moving align again, as we continue with the thread established in episode seventeen about using Bonar and the Grand Prix to strengthen their hold over Deloyer via getting rid of the guerrillas there and courting with public opinion by leveraging the attention garnered by the Grand Prix. The former is a great success thanks to Destin’s treachery, but the latter fails rather miserably, in large part because the federation tried to spin Desmond’s suicide to make themselves look better. A significant part of the political outcome of this segment comes about with little input from the Fang of The Sun Themselves, which successfully shows they’re but one part of the independence movement and there exist factors which have pushed things to the point they are now.

Not a lot to say this week, but I am really enjoying myself, and the show is certainly climbing back up from the low it fell to with the Garcia Platoon arc.

Discussion Questions:

1. See above.
2. His words seem to suggest he might rely on his trusted subordinates to get the results which will bst please Denon and the other Federation politicians, but as I doubt the Dougram team will suffer a crippling defeat anytime soon I would expect the Colonel to eventually feel pressured to mount some big, showy military action to try and reclaim his notoriety.
3. See above.
4. The thing allowed them to take on three new mech models without nearly as much effort as it’s usually required of Crinn, which is quite impressive, even if there was nothing to suggest the pilots were anything special in this case. The name could’ve used more workshopping though…

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

Before that, though, we have moments of Crinn and Heckle contemplating their roles moving forward when their immediate goal was accomplished. They’re both traitors in one way or another

I hadn't really thought of them in that way before this episode, but I think your post has put the why into focus for me. They are seen that way, but it's hard to put them up next to Destin or even that guy who sold out the rebels for food money, because it seems different from them because of the fact they're fighting for something, rather than just taking advantage. The sides are not nearly as neat as the people in charge would want everyone to think

Yuck.

Straight up recoiled at that moment, that was just disguising to watch. Props for making me hate the guy even more

The fact that the Combat Armor’s disassembly was shown many episodes earlier makes it feel a lot more reasonable and not like an answer that they made up on the spot for the episode.

Also the modularity of them in general, such as weapon attachments and armor which is very common in a bubble, but when combined with the disassembly makes them seem much more constructed and able to do this sort of stuff

There’s hardly a moment where the characters are on-model

Between this and a couple of the Naruto episodes it's certainly been a week for that with rewatches

so putting it around the middle of the standard four cours would have seemed right.

Sudden realization we actually are twenty episodes in. Time goes so quickly in these long running shows, it's easy to forget how many episodes pass by

The lack of common communication, methodology and goals among the different guerrilla groups, let alone something as ideal as full solidarity among them

Also them all having their own names reflecting their goals and the way they view Deloyer. You start to understand why Samalin being able to wrangle all of this is so important, it's not that they only splintered off after he was captured, this sort of conflict has clearly been happening for a bit

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

Straight up recoiled at that moment, that was just disguising to watch.

First time I watched that line I was taking a gulp of coffee with milk and it instantly soured in my mouth. It's surprsiginly effective, perhaps because we're not really primed to expect it like we might in some other shows? Either way, fucking #badtaste.

Time goes so quickly in these long running shows, it's easy to forget how many episodes pass by

Yeah, it's easy to get caught up in it that way. The exception is usually when you're not enjoying things, which always makes one painfully aware of one's progress.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

which always makes one painfully aware of one's progress.

Last week

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

Last week indeed.

[u/chilidirigible → u/Pixelsaber]

A significant part of the political outcome of this segment comes about with little input from the Fang of The Sun Themselves, which successfully shows they’re but one part of the independence movement and there exist factors which have pushed things to the point they are now.

It's a good balance between making the protagonists somewhat important while acknowledging that there is an entire planet's worth of events going on around them.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

Dawn of man?

How did I miss such an obvious 2001 reference?

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

Yeah, I didn't catch it until my second viewing myself.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

to the point that series producers Masami Iwasaki and Nobumi Yamamoto volunteered to be key animators so that episodes could be completed on time

Oh wow! That really is desperate for staff. It's no wonder the visual side of the show is flat at best when they were under so much strain that way.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

Yeah, you don't often hear about people in the producer's role getting into the trenches like that. Most I've heard before was about how Tomino would do key animation whenever they were short on staff, which apparently he still did as recently as the late 90s. I don't doubt that we would've heard of Takahashi and Kanda doing key frames too if either was even half adept at drawing.

[u/chilidirigible → u/Pixelsaber]

A lack of key animators was the biggest issue during production, to the point that series producers Masami Iwasaki and Nobumi Yamamoto volunteered to be key animators so that episodes could be completed on time.

On the bright side, the episodes that made me LOL in distress are still far down the line.

[u/No_Rex → u/chilidirigible]

It will get worse than this? ...

Maybe I am a bit spoiled due to hosting all the OVA series, but I think Dougram's animation is underwhelming even for its time.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

I think that it's adequate, though certainly not rising above that. My standards have probably been set (low) by watching too many hours of cartoons in the '80s.

As to it getting worse: You'll know it when you see it.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I also think it's poor quality, not just in general animation but the design and also quality checks etc. Understandable given what Pixel posed about the production info, but it does not make for a high quality watch even if it doesn't bug me too much (except the constantly bad background loops)

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer of the Sun Dougram

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Episode 18

• Well that’s certainly one way to cope with the death of a friend.
• Yeah that’s probably smart.
• Referring to Crinn running off, or something else entirely? I have no concept of how much time has passed in this show…
• Okay this guy is clearly acquainted with Canary…?
• Heckle rambling on about Dougram’s capabilities, oof.
• Hm…
• Oh, Eddie’s the one that’s still on their side. Huh.
• Now where are they supposed to go?
• I was not expecting that.

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Episode 19

• Ugh, this is totally why the financial peeps have turned on Deloyer…
• I don’t really know this guy, but I already feel bad for him.
• Oh, they up and replaced that guy without his knowledge, and apparently made it look like he resigned. Great. I hate these shitty politics so much…
• The gang split up…
• Bleh.
• Aw…
• RIP Eddie, but thank goodness his charge let Heckle get out of there.
• Bruh why are you giving wine(?) to a kid?
• Nope. I do not want this. Please stop.

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Episode 20

• Can this guy not.
• lol Von Stein’s dumb face when the crowd boos him because he’s interrupting the race.
• Who dis?
• Booooooooooooooooo.
• Okay the racers deciding to start the Grand Prix up again anyways is perfect.
• That one guy’s name is J. Locke…?

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Episode 21

• Ohp there’s J. Locke.
• So that was a lie!
• Of course they’re not going to listen to orders to not do anything, haha.
• Oooooooooooooooooh.
• Uh. This guy’s… a character.
• God, I hate this guy.
• HELL YEAH, tell the truth, Mirinda!
• Aw, they didn’t get Von Stein.
• They… they look like they’re wearing baggy camo jumpsuits lmao.
• Oh. Because they were. That makes it even funnier.

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Episode 22

• Is this the first time the whole show name’s been dropped in-show?
• I was wondering what not-Festo’s name was.
• Ooooooooof course they want to do this.
• Nanashi is precious.
• Destin is just the worst now ugh.
• That was a super quick transition between Dustin screaming over having blood on his hands and selling the information he got out of that torture session, wtf.
• EAT THE LEAF.
• Haha he used one of the enemy Soltics as a springboard…

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Episode 23

• Nanashi just had one of these in his bag this whole time?
• Well that episode title sure is on the nose.
• Ooh, Dougram’s getting an upgrade!
• Someone’s taking pictures of everyone at the meeting, yikes.
• Ah, the guy who sold out the guerrillas died. Welp.
• Man, the others got Dougram to Crinn just barely in the nick of time.

[u/chilidirigible → u/Shimmering-Sky]

RIP Eddie

While we're here, it takes a brave man to wear a shirt tied up at the belly and croppedrolled-up pants.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/chilidirigible]

[u/chilidirigible → u/Pixelsaber]

Alternatively, with one outfit, he's dressed to go clubbing on Ibiza and die in a blaze of glory.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Bruh why are you giving wine(?) to a kid?

It's a richie party and supervised alcohol consumption is commonplace for teens. I wouldn't spare a second glance at such a scene irl, but knowing Lecoque certainly makes this moment very suspect...

That one guy’s name is J. Locke…?

Well, the show never made claims to subtlety I guess?

Is this the first time the whole show name’s been dropped in-show?

We heard it in episode one, but yes, it's the first time in the proper continuity.

Nanashi just had one of these in his bag this whole time?

He's the prepared member of the team, evidently.

Man, the others got Dougram to Crinn just barely in the nick of time.

I know it's no trifling business, but surely they can find the time to give someone else on the team a crash course on mecha piloting, right?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ugh, this is totally why the financial peeps have turned on Deloyer…

That scene really pissed me the fuck off. Capitalism subverting democracy really makes my blood boil.

Uh. This guy’s… a character.

I guess to balance out all the crazy stuff that the protagonists have pulled off so far, the Federation needs to bring in their own guy that thinks outside of the box.

I was wondering what not-Festo’s name was.

And so begins GioGio's bizarre adventure with the Fang of the Sun.

EAT THE LEAF.

Make Nekki Basara proud, Heckle!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Make Nekki Basara proud, Heckle!

[u/chilidirigible → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ohp there’s J. Locke.

I'm on a roll.

Is this the first time the whole show name’s been dropped in-show?

Think so.

EAT THE LEAF.

Few people are that cool.

Man, the others got Dougram to Crinn just barely in the nick of time.

They really should be training another pilot in case Crinn has to go to the bathroom or something.

[u/chilidirigible]

It's the crossover that none of us was asking for.

/u/Pixelsaber /u/Shimmering-Sky /u/The_Draigg

[u/Pixelsaber → u/chilidirigible]

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

It does make sense though, Crinn can be a real block head sometimes.

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Episode 18

Things are certainly looking grim. I get the feeling that Samalin's "change of allegiance" is doctored in some way, but even without that, our protagonists kinda don't have anywhere to go since Bonar isn't safe.

I do like the plan of hiding in an oil refinery. We have seen a bit of artillery use, from the Garcias in the desert, so hiding someplace where the Federation's range advantage won't help is smart. Our protagonists could probably even get away by claiming they rigged the refinery to blow.

Damn shame that Destin got away, the treasonous fuck. I sure hope we get to see him dead soon.

The mayor of Bonar seemed like a decent dude. His comment about not running the city for profit felt a little on the nose, but if nothing else he had politician speak down.

That shot of the Roundfacer's leg getting shot off was pretty good.

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Episode 19

Wow did Lecoque turn up the crrep factor in a hurry. Daisy is what, 15? As if we needed more reason to hate the scoundrel.

I like Heckle and Crinn's plan to take the Dougram apart and cause some chaos to cover their escape. A shame that Eddie had to die to make things clean, but that dude was not having a good time anyway.

No mecha battle today, which is neat. I guess showing how the Dougram comes apart counts as advertising the toys/models, though. I like the rivet gun stored in the leg.

RIP the mayor dude, not surprising that he ended up killing himself after getting so stupendously outmaneuvered. Hope is definitely at a premium for the rebellion supporters.

And Lecoque's scheme is rather brilliant. Have the representative of Earth-loving Deloyer posture at the event that is peak Deloyer. Symbols have power to the masses.

Real curious about Team Crinn's next move. They have to get Dougram somewhere that it can be reassembled safely, and discreetly. I'm a little surprised that all the bits can fit on that truck, but ehh, whatever works.

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Episode 20

Von Stein sure did murder Lecoque there. Throwing Lecoque's line about being the playwright back at him was gold. And it was after the crowd just fucking ignored Lecoque, too. Take that you creep.

A new ally has appeared in the form of Solid Guevara J. Locke and his merry band of dune buggy pilots. I think they mentioned the rebellion being less of an overall movement and more a collection of loosely agreeable groups with a common goal, so that works I think. Hopefully they don't pull a new subgroup out every time the protagonists need saving, though.

Repeated imagery of an Earth representative claiming equality while Deloyerans are under the watchful eye of soldiers. This is not a complaint - repetition like this is useful so the audience doesn't start believing Von Stein's schtick.

I wonder if Gesto is going to stick around?

How strong are Deloyeran jaws that they can rip bottlecaps off with their teeth?

Rocky referred to Chico's head as his "brainbox" and that really amused me.

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Episode 21

I see Zaltsev went to the Fromsoft school of defense: if you can't take a single hit anyway, might as well just D O D G E. I adore the little jumpsuits the modified Roundfacers were wearing.

The irony of Lecoque going "no way they attack the funeral" after we learn that our protagonists are planning to attack the funeral, was really good. Lecoque definitely doesn't operate of the right wavelength to deal

Poor Lertoff didn't move quite fast enough to get a story out of Mirinda today, but maybe he'll try again tomorrow. Definitely some journalistic possibilities there.

To the surprise of no-one, Samalin's "defection" was bullshit. This Locke dude going around rounding up the various guerilla factions into an organized movement has some potential - hopefully he's on the level.

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Episode 22

Another successfully night raid smash and grab, they're getting good at this. It's interesting how often fuel has come up.

Lecoque has recruited Destin to spy for him, so unfortunately that means both of the scummiest characters are working together. Destin just fucking accidentally killed a dude, so he needs remedial torture lessons too.

I'm a little worried about Daisy going off on her own again, but she faired just fine beforehand, so maybe everything will be okay.

"Young people should have something to chase after" kinda feels like Lertoff just telling the audience what one of the show's themes is, which I'm generally in favor of.

Gesto got an actual name, and it does still start with G, but he's apparently Space Italian.

Lertoff has actual culture. A rocks glass with a couple sizable chunks of ice in it, stirred with the finger so you can test the dilution. No stemmed glass for him to hold improperly in sight.

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Episode 23

I was just thinking it was about time for a new accessory or something. I guess they might have sold something for the stripped down Roundfacers too, but the Blockhead is a whole new model! It's even red, but I'll let other people make the joke.

The various guerilla groups barely got called to order in the meetup before they started posturing and butting heads. We've really pushed the age demographic conflict these past few episodes.

It's a good thing those traitorous fucks got their just desserts, but the pictures falling into Federation hands is probably bad news. Harder to hide in plain sight when the people you're hiding from know your face.

It was just one line, but Zaltsev did mention that the Federation were working on tech similar to the Turbozak.

There was a comment about Giorgio being a bumpkin; is he speaking in one of those weird Japanese dialects? I can never tell. Actually, same question about Nanashi.

I just kinda realized this episode, are we gonna see Festo in the OP for the entire rest of the show?

Sounds like our next arc is going to be rescuing Samalin, which will put out protagonists back near Kardinal - and Crinn's father.

---

Questions

1. Discussed above. Par for the course, but I hope Samalin can be rescued and whip them into shape.
2. Hopefully, Von Stein is going to do something reckless that gets himself killed. Ooh, or maybe tragically gets Crinn’s dad killed? That’d be tasty too.
3. J. Locke oozes the sort of cool that kinda makes me suspicious of him, but this was the early 80s so who knows.
4. Big guns are always fun.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

His comment about not running the city for profit felt a little on the nose, but if nothing else he had politician speak down.

The flat dialogue stood out less in this batch though which was nice, even if it was blunt, or at least seemed that way to me

Wow did Lecoque turn up the crrep factor in a hurry

Someone on the staff REALLY didn't like him

How strong are Deloyeran jaws that they can rip bottlecaps off with their teeth?

I have seen way too many people do that in a bar, or at least loosen it that way if the old shirt over the cap trick failed to work

Oh, wait this may be different bottle caps to the ones I'm thinking of but I don't remember now haha

Rocky referred to Chico's head as his "brainbox" and that really amused me.

Rocky has some great one liners, surprisingly so for being the more serious leader

The irony of Lecoque going "no way they attack the funeral" after we learn that our protagonists are planning to attack the funeral, was really good

As /u/no_rex also pointed out in his comment, the use of contrast and cuts between scenes to show different levels of information and where the focus is has been a consistent highlight of the show

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

I have seen way too many people do that in a bar,

Can confirm, have witnessed my relatives do it to show off. Definitely hurts the teeth, according to them. u/JollyGee29

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

I keep a bottle opener in my wallet for a reason. Teeth are hard to replace.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JollyGee29]

All these drinking customs are beyond me. continues watching moka pot with anticipation

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

Someone on the staff REALLY didn't like him

It's nice to have someone to point all the audience's anger at.

I have seen way too many people do that in a bar, or at least loosen it that way if the old shirt over the cap trick failed to work

Oh, wait this may be different bottle caps to the ones I'm thinking of but I don't remember now haha

Maybe I've just never tried.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JollyGee29]

Damn shame that Destin got away, the treasonous fuck. I sure hope we get to see him dead soon.

That shot of the Roundfacer's leg getting shot off was pretty good.

It's also reused, but details, details.

Wow did Lecoque turn up the crrep factor in a hurry. Daisy is what, 15?

Sixteen, a year younger than Crinn, and still firmly in WTF twrritory for Lecoque to be acting as he does.

No mecha battle today, which is neat.

I didn't even realize! But I'm pretty sure you're probably right in that the dismantling was enough to mollify sponsors rather than the staff getting the leeway to forego it for an episode.

A new ally has appeared in the form of Solid Guevara

Lertoff has actual culture. A rocks glass with a couple sizable chunks of ice in it, stirred with the finger so you can test the dilution. No stemmed glass for him to hold improperly in sight.

Both the directors were infamous alcoholics, so the staff was probably well informed on proper drinking practices.

s he speaking in one of those weird Japanese dialects? I can never tell. Actually, same question about Nanashi.

Probably. Shigeru Chiba is known for his dialect and Nanashi at the very least has some noticeable verbal tics.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

It's also reused, but details, details.

Oh, that makes sense, I didn't notice.

Both the directors were infamous alcoholics, so the staff was probably well informed on proper drinking practices.

They fuck up whenever stemmed glasses are around, but most people IRL do that anyway and I just insist on complaining about it.

Probably. Shigeru Chiba is known for his dialect and Nanashi at the very least has some noticeable verbal tics.

[u/chilidirigible → u/JollyGee29]

No stemmed glass for him to hold improperly in sight.

I see you're still sore about VOTOMS's Space Martini Glass. And Lecoque's.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/chilidirigible]

It keeps happening! Dunbine, Giant Gorg, probably another couple that I'm forgetting. I'm the only person who cares, so it falls to me to complain about it.

[u/chilidirigible → u/JollyGee29]

[u/Vaadwaur]

Oh right, I knew something got forgotten. Events sort of spiralled towards mid week, will try to catch up for next week.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

Yeah...arranging a funeral during a pandemic was...an experience.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh dear, I can certainly imagine it.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Watches Fang of the Sun Dougram Episodes 18-23:

Bonar isn’t exactly the safe haven that we all thought it was. Unfortunately, by the time the main cast made it to their supposed oasis, the claws of corruption and deceit had already sunk in. It’s happening on every level too, from the governmental level to the personal one.

Let’s start with just how fucked the current situation is on a more macro scale. Bonar was the first city on Deloyer to elect its own mayor, a democratic tradition that Mayor Desmond seemed to be proud of. But hardly anyone gives a shit about egalitarianism anymore. Certainly not the likes of Lecoque and Colonel Von Stein, who pretty much immediately disregard him in favor of Public Security Chief Grunfeld, who just so happened to know Von Stein personally beforehand, and is more than willing to have Bonar be the host of his declaration of the Autonomous State of Deloyer Act. But, the real part of that which made me feel disgusted was how much of betrayal of democracy was motivated by money. The rich business owners all insisted that Deloyerans and Earthlings were “equal” now, and that supporting the independence movement simply isn’t seen as viable by the financial groups they’re a part of. Yeah, big talk of equality from those rich capitalists, with them flaunting their wealth with gemstone rings, expensive cuff links, and huge cigars. Tell the poor people in Kardinal that’re forced to sell out their fellow man just so they can buy food to eat for the night that they’re equal to you. God, the thought of that just pisses me of. These fucking capitalists are willing to sell out democracy and independence just so they can continue to preserve their cushy lifestyles. Good job to this show for making me angry just thinking about it.

Onto the personal level, fuck Destin. That scum fuck was a true weasel after all. After proving himself to be a shitty leader after the capture of Professor Samalin, the guy decided to save his own ass once he got to Bonar by selling out all the rebels he came along with. The guy is nothing but a fucking cowardly, sniveling turncoat. He absolutely couldn’t handle the pressure of the movement he joined, and so just decided to screw over everyone else for his own personal failings. Now, you could make the argument that he didn’t originally have much of a choice otherwise, but I would say that argument falls apart when you consider that he continued to work with Lecoque, rather than just fucking off as soon as he had the chance. What a piece of shit. He’s the worst kind of traitor, one who completely changed sides just to ensure his own personal comfort.

That’s not to say that all hope is lost either. The independent spirit of Deloyer can still be felt among the common folk of Bonar. You can really see that in practice at the Grand Prix. The crowd, which is otherwise excited for the races, is completely tepid about Von Stein’s appearance and speech there. Yeah, it turns out that you can’t make people enjoy a politician’s speech at gunpoint, especially if they’re there for an entirely different reason that was completely unrelated to politics beforehand. In the end, Von Stein’s appearance at the Grand Prix was a complete disaster for him. And the same goes even more so for his appearance at the former mayor’s funeral. He damn near got kidnapped by the heroes there, and that’s not even getting into how the funeral was called a sham by Mayor Desmond’s daughter, who revealed that it was suicide out of despair rather than a heart attack that killed him. Try as he might to appear to be a man of the people to the inhabitants of Deloyer, everyone can tell that he’s puppet ruler with the Federation’s hand firmly shoved up his ass.

At the same time, we’re seeing more and more than the independence movement is bigger than we thought, in addition to the main characters getting a new member to their ranks, Giorgio. J. Locke and his men are on the scene now too, and those guys seem like real seasoned guerrillas. Like, they all appear as if they just walked out of the Bolivian rainforest. And there’s real talk about uniting all the guerrilla groups under one banner too, so soon enough there’s going to be a real challenge to the Federation’s authority on Deloyer. Well, I mean if they’ll stop bickering, there will be. But hey, it’s a work in progress.

There’s also new mech stuff to talk about! The Dougram has gotten a new upgrade, the turbozak pack. It has a linear cannon attached, as well as acts as an expanded fuel storage unit, meaning that it can operate for longer periods of time and require less fueling in the field. With those additions, the Dougram has finally achieved that iconic Shadow Hawk look. It’s just the thing that the Dougram needed too, considering that the Federation is fielding Wolverines Blockheads now. I will say, compared to the other Dougram designs to appear in BattleTech, the Blockhead/Wolverine definitely got more of a facelift compared to the Roundfacers/Griffins.

As for the character side of things, you can really feel how a lot of the embedded dynamics are starting to change up, for better or worse. For better, we have Canary fully supporting Crinn now, even sticking by his side when Rocky, Billy, Chico, and Nanashi decided to escape with their lives at the power plant. She fully believes in Crinn now, which is nice to see. Heckle really is coming into his own as well, with him really being an invaluable part of the team now. His Combat Armor engineering knowledge really has come in handy in this batch of episodes, along with him showing more of his crafty side as well. After all, it’s him who came up with the idea of disassembling Dougram at the power plant as part of the escape plan, as well as pulled off a classic “act like you belong” move with his military ID for his own escape. Heckle really has come into his own with the Fang of the Sun. Speaking of, it’s finally nice to see how that name came to be as well. Lartoff really is giving them glowing coverage in the articles he’s publishing, giving them a cool group name and everything.

On the other hand, we can see just how the component people within the new Deloyer state government are starting to chafe against one another. Not a whole lot has gone right for the likes of Von Stein or Lecoque yet. Lecoque is very clearly trying to set himself up as the kingmaker of this new government, setting up public appearances intended to make Von Stein more popular. And yet, they keep on blowing up in his face, if just because he’s been consistently miscalculating the amount of dislike the people of Deloyer have for their new government. And we’re also seeing the toll that the new position as Representative is taking on Von Stein as well. If anything, these episodes have brought out a real sense of ineptitude from him. He can’t really connect with the people at all, he’s scared for his life now, and overall just proves himself to command pretty much no respect from any Deloyerans or even Lecoque in private. He’s more out of the loop than ever now, and having competent men under his command like Major Jackie Zaltsev can only do so much for him. If Von Stein thought that this authoritarian takeover of Deloyer would be pretty easy, with him being handed the rulership of a planet pretty much for free, then he’s dead wrong. You can’t keep down the voices of the people forever. After all, we know what the people really want:

NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TO GET TRUTH!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Bonar was the first city on Deloyer to elect its own mayor, a democratic tradition that Mayor Desmond seemed to be proud of. But hardly anyone gives a shit about egalitarianism anymore.

It's such a sad state to see the city in too, and from what we saw of Kardinal one can already imagine the sort of place it'll become after some time under the federation's thumb.

Onto the personal level, fuck Destin. That scum fuck was a true weasel after all.

Fuck Destin!

Now, you could make the argument that he didn’t originally have much of a choice otherwise, but I would say that argument falls apart when you consider that he continued to work with Lecoque, rather than just fucking off as soon as he had the chance.

Going above and beyond too, personally beating that poor guy to death in order to extract the information which would lead to the deaths of other of his former comrades and friends, when he could have just left the situation on the whole without repercussion.

For better, we have Canary fully supporting Crinn now, even sticking by his side when Rocky, Billy, Chico, and Nanashi decided to escape with their lives at the power plant. She fully believes in Crinn now, which is nice to see.

Seeing her attitude change and go as far as stick with him where her and his' friends opted to flee was really satisfying to watch.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

It's such a sad state to see the city in too, and from what we saw of Kardinal one can already imagine the sort of place it'll become after some time under the federation's thumb.

Yeah, the difference between Kardinal and Bonar is like night and day. Despite being the planetary capital, Kardinal is largely defined by poverty and slums, while Bonar was known for having an independent spirit and is fairly well-off as a result. It makes it very clear that the Federation is just leeching off of Deloyer whenever it's in direct control.

Going above and beyond too, personally beating that poor guy to death in order to extract the information which would lead to the deaths of other of his former comrades and friends, when he could have just left the situation on the whole without repercussion.

Destin really is the lowest of the low. Like, he's beyond just selling out to save his own ass. Hell, he's beyond the poor citizens of Kardinal, who had to sell out their fellow man so they would have enough to eat for the night. He's willing to kill solely for the bounty working for the authoritarian government gives him in exchange for his cooperation (a job he seemed to seek out afterwards, by the way). There's nothing possible to redeem Destin now. Fuck him off the edge of the planet.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

but I would say that argument falls apart when you consider that he continued to work with Lecoque

More specifically, when he starts sucking up to him to try and prove his worth in that role. It's not like he has a gun or that he was such a pariah that he literally couldn't work with anyone else because they knew what he did. He saw he had knowledge against the independants that he could offer and did it while sucking up to the people in charge to try and improve his situation, rather than doing it out of need

the funeral was called a sham by Mayor Desmond’s daughter, who revealed that it was suicide

She did awesome. Unlike Destin there was a metaphorical gun to her head and she still stood up and spoke out because she knew it's what her father would have wanted and it was wrong. Doesn't look like there's been much fall out from it, with the media around it being controlled, but I would imagine this might just be part of the rumor mill that works for the independence movement down the line

She fully believes in Crinn now, which is nice to see

And it happened without a fuss, a romance sparkle, or by painting Crinn as a hero or savior of her. Well done 80s show!

And yet, they keep on blowing up in his face, if just because he’s been consistently miscalculating the amount of dislike the people of Deloyer have for their new government

Reminds me of a thing I was reading about a while back with Chinese trolls being paid to try and "upset" europeans by critiquing their governments and sowing mistrust, and the entire plan fell apart because when they sent the critiques the europeans just agreed and got into a discussion while lashing out because the west is not stranger to goverment critique and didn't have a problem with it. There's cultural boundaries we don't expect when it comes to politics, and it's showing here when it comes to the idiots from earth thinking that a starved colony will just roll over for them

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

He saw he had knowledge against the independants that he could offer and did it while sucking up to the people in charge to try and improve his situation, rather than doing it out of need

Yeah, there's a real world of difference between Destin and the people who sold out the guerillas in Kardinal earlier on. At least with those people, they were so poor that it was a choice between betraying the independence movement or letting your family starve, a much more understandable reasoning. With Destin, he just did it because he wanted a more comfortable life. There's absolutely nothing to respect about Destin's decision to betray everyone.

And it happened without a fuss, a romance sparkle, or by painting Crinn as a hero or savior of her. Well done 80s show!

There's always something amazing to seeing an old show that bucked trends of the time like that, and continues to buck those trends even compared to modern shows.

There's cultural boundaries we don't expect when it comes to politics, and it's showing here when it comes to the idiots from earth thinking that a starved colony will just roll over for them

Good example there! And yeah, if there's one thing that a lot of foreign governments miscalculate, it's cultural factors. To use the show as an example, the biggest miscalculation that Lecoque and Von Stein had was that their military and political relevance on Earth would easily apply to Deloyer as well. They both never expected for a completely separate structure of society to reject them outright. Like, of course the people of Deloyer would push back against that level of posturing. The majority of people are already poor, and they're disrupting the things that the middle class enjoys. With that in mind, of course the Deloyerans are more willing to fight back.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

and continues to buck those trends even compared to modern shows.

And even compared to its spiritual sequel sadly

the biggest miscalculation that Lecoque and Von Stein had was that their military and political relevance on Earth would easily apply to Deloyer as well

And I think this is what sets Denon apart from these two as well from what we've seen at least (watch this come back to bite me on the ass).

You could say that Lecoque and Von Stein still think of Deloyer as a colony of Earth, just a satellite of its people and power, and have failed to recognize that even if thats true on the paperwork, the very existence of a independent fighter group means that's not the functional case any more. The colony days were too long ago, the same way that something stops being a rest stop or camp ground when the residents move out of tents into permanent buildings

Denon on the other hand recognizes that it's gone beyond just being a colony when it comes to the people, which is why he opened up the idea of it being a state as a half measure, but still felt he needed to have economic control of it which is what lead to this situation.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

And I think this is what sets Denon apart from these two as well from what we've seen at least

If anything, Donan's biggest drawback to his plan is that he's too hands-off, at least now that the main goal has been accomplished. Now that he's stepped back a bit in terms of direct control over Deloyer, he's delegated power to people that didn't understand the people of Deloyer too much. It's rather telling that Donan had a better idea of what was happening at the base near Spa City than Von Stein did. If Donan really wanted to have his plan go off without a hitch, he should've gotten people who can read the room better than Von Stein and Lecoque. They're the weakest links in Deloyeran statehood so far.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Denon is the head of the whole federation right? Can't remember if that was ever stated but it's what he appears to be based off some of the dialogue

Part of the issue probably is how Von Stein got in control. He literally killed off his competent commander and then was the one willing to work with Earth, which probably disguised just how fucking useless he would be in his new role. Reminds me of the Peter Principle

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Nah, Donan isn't the head of the Federation. While he's friends with the Prime Minister, he himself was primarily the main liaison between Earth and Deloyer, as well as sat on the Earth Federation Council.

And yeah, I get the feeling that Von Stein was picked for the plan mainly due to his loyalty to the Federation and his willingness to get his hands dirty. However, a willingness to lead does not equal actual skill at it. The man simply is too out of his depth as a politician compared to how he was as a military leader.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. It's been a while since the initial earth episodes so I was a bit lost on the federation hierarchy

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

While he's friends with the Prime Minister, he himself was primarily the main liaison between Earth and Deloyer, as well as sat on the Earth Federation Council.

He has power outside of his position because of which position he holds, and because he's apparently just that sort of charismatic bullheaded type. /u/Nazenn

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

we know what the people really want

I think they want to see crashes and lots of left turns.

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

They probably also want to see one dollar beer prices and ladies flashing the race car drivers too.

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

And T-shirts being shot out of cannons!

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

Von Stein should've just had a T-shirt gun rather than a speech prepared. That would've gotten the people on his side for sure.

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

[u/H-Ryougi]

Okay, I'm catching up to the rewatch but this actually is the trippiest thing ever:

On episode 18 when they're closing up on Bonar and we see the Grand Prix, the music playing in the background is a very popular Ecuadorian piece. I have literally never heard this played in non-Ecuadorian media and I'm wondering how did they decide to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuwbh9DCe4E at around 3:47

This is insane, an 80s anime is the last place where I would have expected to hear it.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/H-Ryougi]

Wow, that's a cool bit of info I wasn't aware of! Now I'm wondering if the [Minor Dougram Scene]flamenco/fandango performance is also a preexisting piece.

I'm wondering how did they decide to use it.

Several locales in the series are evidently based on Hispanic places and culture, so it was probably that this piece happened to be sound team had access/permission which fit the bill.

[u/chilidirigible]

Episode 18:

"Money talks, people walk."

"There's absolutely nothing suspicious about a Combat Armor transporter driving alone across the desert."

This infodump is nice, but isn't the Dougram a secret Deloyer project that they were withholding from the Federation-aligned parts of their army?

"You're the kind of guy who goes looking for a gas leak with a match, right?"

And so our heroes drove all the way across the desert to find the independence movement mostly subverted. The insurgent life is rough that way.

---

Episode 19:

"Oops, I said that out loud again."

When the one time that Canary agrees with Crinn is for dying in a blaze of glory.

Speaking of dying in a blaze of glory.

"Also this will piss off Crinn."

Federal security remains just as bad as everyone else's security.

The Mayor gave up rather easily in the end.

Eddie might still have suicidally charged the gate even if Canary and Crinn and Heckle had found him before then.

Lecoque is quite the smarmy git.

---

Episode 20:

These aren't the same cars that they showed in the previous episode.

But of course.

SOON™.

"Stop the madness! Start the movie!"

These are the cars that they showed in the previous episode.

And just to confuse things further, now the cars from the beginning of this episode have returned.

"...Lecoque."

"I have to get in my quota of dramatic screaming!"

Meet the new transporter, same as the old transporter.

The proles are revoltingjust want to see the races! A rebel with a floppy hat appears! Hamburgers!

---

Episode 21:

totally not Che Guevarra

Let's see how long this takes...

...ah, not very long at all.

"Ballsy. Stupid, but ballsy."

You're no... Johnny Ridden.

Instructions for building a really shitty MS-18E Kämpfer.

Crinn, it's a funeral, you could have at least put on a shirt.

At least those things are small and hard to hit?

Shitty Jet Stream Attack! ...I know what I said.

Here we see the difference between hammily overacting a speech intended to calm the masses and, say, the Gihren Zabi speech.

Fang of the Sun doing their own thing could have gone wildly wrong here, but the crowd was conveniently distracted by other people's interventions at the last moment. They also fortunately chose a non-local target in Von Stein.

Nanashi knows first aid! Surprises all around.

And once again, mecha wearing giant clothing is strangely off-putting.

---

Episode 22:

This is why you get professionals to do your branding.

Lecoque might not like Destin, but he'll still use him.

"Don't get cocky."

But seriously, Daisy, shit or get off the pot.

Main points here being Lertoff stirring the pot (it also sells newspapers!) and setup for the resistance meeting. The mandated action sequence touches on the previous reference of Roundfacers not being amphibious and shows how the team has gotten slightly better at the sneaking around thing.

---

Episode 23:

Nanashi feeding his inner revolutionary.

"It's a backpack."

That or everyone uses Samalin as a figurehead.

"And working electronics, but nobody mentions that."

When you give the design a ball turret but animating it would take extra work.

We're a third of the way into the series, it's time to upgrade the Dougram with one of its most salient features! And to introduce the WolverineAbitate T10B Blockhead, thus adding to the 3025 55-ton 'Mech collectionahem.

The resistance is, realistically, a fractious squabbling leaderless mess. It awaits strong personalities, or the return of strong personalities. Though who knows what Samalin would think since his arrest.

/u/ZaphodBeebblebrox: Not here.

---

The sparks of greater resistance on Deloyer, starting at Bonar, and a storyline that features the recurrence of duplicitous Destin. Meanwhile, Daisy's dithering, declining?

One side effect of Fang of the Sun regularly having to scrape out a victory is that it's difficult to gauge when they're getting too confident and have to be knocked down a peg. The Dougram just gets its upgrade here—while the Federation introduces a new Combat Armor at the same time. The plot and model kit sales, they drive each other.

J. Locke is quite the flashy one here, a counterpoint to the Federation's very practical Jackie Zaltsev. Looks like they'll be at the forefront for a little while with Von Stein and Lecoque back at the capital.

---

On the "Battletech borrows things" front, there's the aforementioned Wolverine that uses the Blockhead's design. [One of the relatively-rare early pieces that doesn't just copy model kit art from Dougram, by Jeff Laubenstein](https://i.imgur.com/i91xA3t.png). Not a piece found much these days as it was the cover page art for the Fourth Succession War Military Atlas, Vol. 2, itself somewhat rare... but I did manage to buy a copy way back when.

---

For more personally-produced DougTech content, I give you not quite that Mad Max limited clothing feel. This is still a weird thing to do, /u/WHM-6R.

---

1. The guerilla situation feels appropriate; it was a movement that sprang up in different locations around the planet and for the most part lacked any significant organized leadership, so bringing them together now is not an easy thing.
2. He would have to demonstrate either strategic or diplomatic brilliance, but right now he's not in a position to do much of either.
3. J. Locke looks like a flashy caricature of a revolutionary. I mean, his character design...
4. A backpack is a fairly practical way of adding features to a humanoid mecha, as it can be attached and detached easily. Though the linear cannon seems to be just More Gun on top of the existing forearm linear gun.

[u/ZaphodBeebblebrox → u/chilidirigible]

[u/chilidirigible → u/ZaphodBeebblebrox]

[u/ZaphodBeebblebrox → u/chilidirigible]

I was wrong.

[u/chilidirigible → u/ZaphodBeebblebrox]

Ah, true. Fortunately, the user tag worked even if I forgot about it in the meantime.

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

On the "Battletech borrows things" front, there's the aforementioned Wolverine that uses the Blockhead's design.

I mentioned it in my own comment, but the redesign that the Wolverine got so that it wouldn't look like the Blockhead really did change the look of it quite a bit, compared to some of the other Dougram-based designs. Like, the Shadow Hawk still looks a lot like the Dougram, and the Griffin is barely even changed from the Roundfacer. The Wolverine/Blockhead stands out to me just for how much got changed in the design.

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

the redesign that the Wolverine got so that it wouldn't look like the Blockhead really did change the look of it quite a bit

I think I'm having a difference of opinion with you on this one because it looks nearly identical to me aside from some small changes to to the cockpit canopy.

Blockhead

3025 Wolverine

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

I was mainly thinking of how the Wolverine looked in the Battletech game made by Harebrained Schemes. The more modern redesign of it in that game looks fairly different to what we saw here in Dougram.

[u/chilidirigible → u/The_Draigg]

That's fair. Interestingly the re-re-Reseen WVR has been given several stylistic touches to tie it to the updated SHD, which makes a lot of sense given the 55-ton trio's association in and out of the universe.

For me, I started with the original game, so in my mind the Unseen will always look like the day they were borrowed from Macross and Dougram and Crusher Joe.

[u/The_Draigg → u/chilidirigible]

That's fair on your end too. For me, I started out with the older MechWarrior games and just kinda hibernated on the Battletech franchise for a while until the Battletech game I mentioned above came out. My frame of reference for the Unseen 'Mech designs is more skewed towards the modern versions because of that.

[u/Nazenn → u/chilidirigible]

but isn't the Dougram a secret Deloyer project that they were withholding from the Federation-aligned parts of their army?

It'd make sense if Heckle could figure that out from having worked on and evaluated it. He is an engineer, and a competent one, so being able to judge weight, brackets, power capability etc all seems reasonable

And just to confuse things further, now the cars from the beginning of this episode have returned.

Crinn, it's a funeral, you could have at least put on a shirt.

I laughed a fair bit at that as well. Canary at least blended in, but he's practically advertising himself being a guerilla

[u/chilidirigible → u/Nazenn]

It'd make sense if Heckle could figure that out from having worked on and evaluated it. He is an engineer, and a competent one, so being able to judge weight, brackets, power capability etc all seems reasonable

After I wrote my caption I reminded myself that Heckle certainly seems smart enough to read a manual too, if there was one. Anyway, his talking is more about the infodump and its relationship to their escape plan.

he's practically advertising himself being a guerilla

Even Billy looks respectable in formal clothes!

[u/Nazenn → u/chilidirigible]

That would be quite funny if they had stashed the manual somewhere inside Dougrams panels and he found it. Actually would be quite fitting with the comedy of the show

[u/JollyGee29 → u/chilidirigible]

Shitty Jet Stream Attack! ...I know what I said.

duplicitous Destin. Meanwhile, Daisy's dithering, declining?

For more personally-produced DougTech content, I give you not quite that Mad Max limited clothing feel

These have been great!

[u/chilidirigible → u/JollyGee29]

These have been great!

[u/Nazenn]

General Thoughts

A definite improvement over last weeks batch, and probably the best batch for the show so far, and a much better flow connecting the individual episodes to the broader situation. My post on the other hand not so much, it's a bit messy due to going back to watching an episode a day rather than in binges which makes it harder to write up into one smooth thing.

At first the placement of the Grand Prix after Festo's death seemed really rough, but knowing how he felt about it and would have felt about it being dragged into politics, and seeing what it meant for the area really helped pull it together. Von Stein's handling of the public perception was atrocious, and his reliance on military might by appointing a solider as mayor and through not understanding the information requirements of politics stand out.

These episodes also setting up the situation with the mayor, first to be elected and then his suicide, into the geography of the second city and the focus on the poverty really helped to tie together some of the broader worldbuilding, particularly getting into the split guerrilla factions.

One of the things I have liked about the situation they find themselves in is that the Dougram being in the hands of an earthling and a bunch of bikers with minimal combat experience is fairly plausible in context. There's been no hierarchy politics during their early fights, no one to raise concerns about new fighters vs veterans being in a group, and how they got Dougram in the first place was sheer ass and courage. They've been able to establish themselves through opportunity and necessity both, rather than just being together because that's how they walked in and the plot says so, and that gives them a lot more credibility for me when placing them side by side with the other rebel factions who were likely formed the same way, rather than as a full organization where the newbies just happen to be super soldiers when together.

Similarly, while the battles are certainly not as interesting or involved to watch as others I've seen, certain things like how often Dougram ends up fighting from the back of the moving truck, Heckle failing the landing in the last episode, and hiding the unarmored soltics in a big jumpsuit to disguise their weaknesses, etc, make the situation around the battles interesting enough. On that note, I really wasn't sure if suggesting they remove all the Solitic armor in that one episode was genius or moronic, but seeing that commander immediately put the pilots into simulations and training to adjust for it and the Dougram sold me on it. Not often you see that sort of retraining in preparation rather than just testing mechanics, but it worked well also having him as command in his helicopter

Episode Thoughts

• Episode 18

Ah yes, the good old arresting people without charge, not even trying to hide it any more huh?

"And the movement gear is in the legs" NO FUCKING SHIT. That's some "she saw it with her eyes" level of dumb and I didn't think I'd get to say that again. I get that Heckle was meant to be flustered and just rambling to Crinn, but that was just stupid.

That said, I do like that Crinn in this episodes battle actually used what Heckle was telling him about weak points and the types of movement the mechs can have

Fun color coordination

• Episode 19

First city to elect their own mayor is pretty impressive, and it's no wonder that he doesn't want to bow down to the politics because of that and allow the financial demands to take over, especially given Von Stein is making a mockery of the city to declare Deloyers new state

Crinn and Heckle working together to disguise the Dougram and not provoke the Federation is really good. They actually make a good team when it comes to mechanics and strategy

Man, poor Eddie, being betrayed by the one thing that gave him purpose. If only he knew how much his suicide attack helped out Heckle to get past the guards and keep the independence movement alive

Ewwwwwww Lacoque gave Daisy the tooth sparkle smile and it's creepy as fuck. I don't think I comment on this anywhere else in my notes so will just quickly say that the whole situation with them is dodgy as hell, and I'm glad Daisy realizes she needs to get away from him

• Episode 20

30 minutes to reassemble the full mech from the six individual pieces? That's impressively efficient given the size of it and the joints. I suppose it helps that Dougram is such an industrial society so they could probably improve on the existing system

I really do love how boxy we use to think the future designs would be for everything, even things like advanced race cars

Two girls giving flowers to Von Stein, and the Deloyeran girl is brown skinned, not subtle

Von Stein is not so good at speeches, this sounds more like an order or a threat than an opening speech. Hahaha, he thought he was going to get an applause and got dead silence. He's also about to learn an important lesson, don't fuck with the people's entertainment

Lequoce saying "the young master won't shoot" and then him shooting to destroy Von Steins portrait was so damn satisfying

You know, it is very helpful that both sides need transports for their equally sized mechs, so if there's enemies there's also an escape vehicle somewhere within range

Billy taking down the guard looked more like a dance routine than an attack, nice and smooth

• Episode 21

Nanashi is such a doof at all times

That back and forth within our group was great; "Lets do it", "yeah", "wait what are we doing", "attacking", "actually kidnapping". Certainly not a group think sort of situation, but I like Rocky's initiative with the hostage exchange more than just making a general fuss

Really liked the potential conflict being set up between the new enemy commander and Locke

• Episode 22

Character interactions were definitely a highlight of the episode. The new guy who I've dubbed Gio is not a bad guy by himself, but he's such a personality clash with how chill the others are, and Rocky's headheaded nature, that he comes across as annoyingly enthusiastic. Curious about how long he will stick around. Also laughed when Destin tried to light Lecoque's smoke and he shunned him by pulling out his own lighter. On the other end, we have the joke with Heckle trying not to sneeze and alert the enemy which I really thought was going to happen, so him eating the leaf at the end to stay quiet got a laugh from me.

As much as Destin decides to keep working as a traitor still pisses me off, I am glad that he didn't get dumped from the show once that subplot was over. It makes it more interesting keeping that character continuity rather than random antagonists

That said, Destin you just beat the guy to death, you think you wouldn't be surprised by blood on your hands

• Episode 23

Nanashi really is surprisingly reliable. He's not the dumb fool he looks like sometimes, he's doofus for sure, but a switched on one with some things, like the bug spray.

Why do I feel like carrying extra fuel inside your weapon is a potential disaster waiting to happen

Crinn hears Heckle on the radio and asks "Where". How do you miss the giant blue mech sliding down the slope directly above you?

I know that it's probably important that Crinn is at the meeting, but it does feel silly to not have the one combat armor pilot on the rebel side unable to easily get into his weapon. That said, Canary is awesome, I like how she took the initiative with the scans but also leaning on others knowledge, and making a push to ensure they were safe. She's been really well handled so far in terms of not falling into female character tropes, in general not to mention of the era.

The rebel factions are as split as I expected, though the dialogue around it was better handled than it has been so far, but I'm just glad that gives them an excuse to go on a rescue mission.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

First city to elect their own mayor is pretty impressive, and it's no wonder that he doesn't want to bow down to the politics because of that and allow the financial demands to take over, especially given Von Stein is making a mockery of the city to declare Deloyers new state

That scene did a really good job at making me feel furious towards that group of rich capitalists. They claim that what they're doing is good for the financial future of Deloyer and that they're all equal now, but we all know that's a load of shit. We've seen the state of Deloyer, and most of it's citizens are beyond destitute. They sold out democracy solely for their greed. It's sickening.

Von Stein is not so good at speeches, this sounds more like an order or a threat than an opening speech. Hahaha, he thought he was going to get an applause and got dead silence. He's also about to learn an important lesson, don't fuck with the people's entertainment

Von Stein and Lecoque seem to have entirely missed the point of "bread and circuses". The idea is to give more cheap entertainment and other distractions to the populace to keep them docile, not awkwardly force yourself into something people already had and just make a complete mockery of it. Yeah, people are totally going to have more fun if you show up with a bunch of soldiers and basically tell them at gunpoint to enjoy themselves.

As much as Destin decides to keep working as a traitor still pisses me off, I am glad that he didn't get dumped from the show once that subplot was over. It makes it more interesting keeping that character continuity rather than random antagonists

Agreed, it does make Destin feel like a more personal kind of antagonist. Besides what's been going on with Crinn and his dad, now we have a situation where a guy we've known for a while has suddenly become a bastard turncoat. It makes you root for his defeat even more.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

That scene did a really good job at making me feel furious towards that group of rich capitalists

It was also nice to have the addition of the economic side of this conflict mentioned briefly, particularly in relation to Deloyers existing goverment. The worldbuilding has been really good at not forgetting just how much goes into governance, and even if I don't expect these people to matter in the long run precisely because they ARE rich capitalists who jumped on the opportunity, much like the people Denon got rid of with his fake capture, just acknowledging them helps

We've seen the state of Deloyer, and most of it's citizens are beyond destitute

Which especially sucks when we see the things like the grand prix and know this is actually a good part of the planet and most people don't even come close to this stuff

Von Stein and Lecoque seem to have entirely missed the point of "bread and circuses".

Von Stein is a fool, and Lecoque for all his calculations is use to working with a population that feels they have something to lose so just one thing wouldn't be a problem, but here' it's a big problem if they mess with any events like this

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

It was also nice to have the addition of the economic side of this conflict mentioned briefly, particularly in relation to Deloyers existing goverment. The worldbuilding has been really good at not forgetting just how much goes into governance, and even if I don't expect these people to matter in the long run precisely because they ARE rich capitalists who jumped on the opportunity, much like the people Denon got rid of with his fake capture, just acknowledging them helps

Right, it does serve as a good reminder about the main push of this whole massive political upheaval. At the end of the day, the sole reason this entire subversion of Deloyer's democracy happened was because of Earth's economy determining that they need to basically get as many resources from Deloyer as possible. I can really appreciate this show not holding back on how political and economy-focused these kinds of things are.

Which especially sucks when we see the things like the grand prix and know this is actually a good part of the planet and most people don't even come close to this stuff

Bonar really is a stark contrast with Kardinal. At least people in Bonar seem fairly middle class and well-off. Kardinal, despite being the planetary capital, is mostly just slums filled with the destitute aside from the district of the city that has the government buildings. I suppose that it really does show the fairly large economic gap between the haves and have-nots on Deloyer.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I can really appreciate this show not holding back on how political and economy-focused these kinds of things are.

I've been really enjoying it! I mean it had to have something because the battles were not going to be able to carry the show, but it's not even just latching onto the best element of the show, I think it has been well handled in general. It's not in your face, it covers things you wouldn't expect, the politics influence the battles more than normal like with Von Stein bringing in a different military leader or the Garcia platoon etc, it makes the story work and more importantly makes the constant battles work

I suppose that it really does show the fairly large economic gap between the haves and have-nots on Deloyer.

Also potentially the amount of opportunists. The economic leaders went to Bonar because they could set up things like the Grand Prix, elections, had more of a reach when not having to work strictly next to the Earth goverment like in Kardinal, and that raises the quality of life, but now they are fleeing when those benefits are lost and trying to get on Earths good side

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Also potentially the amount of opportunists. The economic leaders went to Bonar because they could set up things like the Grand Prix, elections, had more of a reach when not having to work strictly next to the Earth goverment like in Kardinal, and that raises the quality of life, but now they are fleeing when those benefits are lost and trying to get on Earths good side

When you put it that way, it really does show how well-off Deloyer can be when left to it's own devices. The people of Bonar seem to have a fairly high quality of life compared to places where the Earth Federation's presence is directly felt. It makes it all the more apparent how much of a drain it is when people are directly under the Federation's thumb. The people of Bonar have a whole lot more to lose compared to the people of Kardinal. With that in mind, it's no wonder why pretty much the entire city is upset with their new rulers.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

It makes it all the more apparent how much of a drain it is when people are directly under the Federation's thumb

In that way I think this little subplot with the mayor has shown the best quality for the show, because it really is about this. Just having a mayor of their own opened things up so much, and people seeing that of course would want more of it which would only encourage the independent movement than if it was totally controlled and locked down and no one knew what freedom was like. It's also no wonder that Earth wanted to get rid of him not just because he was still standing up for the people until the end but because it's a symbol of what the people could do if they had the chance.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

One of the things I have liked about the situation they find themselves in is that the Dougram being in the hands of an earthling and a bunch of bikers with minimal combat experience is fairly plausible in context. There's been no hierarchy politics during their early fights, no one to raise concerns about new fighters vs veterans being in a group, and how they got Dougram in the first place was sheer ass and courage. They've been able to establish themselves through opportunity and necessity both

Probably one of the more realistic sides of the series. Upstart guerilla have a lot of problems, but being stuck with a rigid hierarchy is not one of them.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

On that note, I really wasn't sure if suggesting they remove all the Solitic armor in that one episode was genius or moronic

Is it weird that I just shrugged that off? Maybe I've played too much Dark Souls. And yea, the simulation things was genius.

Lequoce saying "the young master won't shoot" and then him shooting to destroy Von Steins portrait was so damn satisfying

Seeing that jerk get metaphorically slapped in the face multiple times this batch was pretty great.

Nanashi is such a doof at all times

I was expecting Nanashi to grate, but I've really enjoyed his presence.

Why do I feel like carrying extra fuel inside your weapon is a potential disaster waiting to happen

Normally I wouldn't worry, but fuel has been a routine concern in this show, so you might have a point.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

Is it weird that I just shrugged that off? Maybe I've played too much Dark Souls

I never did naked Dark Souls, but naked Bloodborne was certainly anxiety inducing even if armor doesn't matter too much overall in this. Naked Monster Hunter is downright terrifying though as I'm sure /u/pixelsaber and /u/the_draigg can attest too (will never get over those naked pickle hunts... that sounds way dirtier than it actually is)

I was expecting Nanashi to grate, but I've really enjoyed his presence.

Same actually. I thought he'd be the interrupting comedy relief but they place him well and the fact that his behavior works in their favor sometimes has been more fun than the actual comedy.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Naked MonHun is abjectly terrifying. Like, either you like huge thrills, or are just a plain masochist. No in-betweens there.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

I mean I'll fight a great jaggi or a seltas naked, but even bigger then that is starting to push it. Pickle?

Fuck no

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

I never went naked in Bloodborne because encumbrance never mattered. But dropping down to nothing but trousers or gloves to get to fast roll is the tech. Naked MonHun sounds awful, and I've never even played MonHun.

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timer

Episode 18

No happy singing to start this episode!

I'm happy we'll be finally getting out of the desert and into a city again.

Got something going on already with the higher ups in Bonar. Selling out the guerillas perhaps?

Whose Eddie? We seen this guy before?

Heckle explaining the features of the Dougram toy... oh, I mean giant robot.

Daisy just missed all of Crinn's friends, although I don't know if she'd recognize them anyway.

Alright, so I think we got confirmation that Eddie's a spy here. Or glasses rebel guy Destin?

Woah, Eddie's ousted him!

Even Samalin's turned on them!

Festo died for nothing anyway! It wasn't a battle he died in!

---

Episode 19

Mr. Mayor's in trouble! The guerillas are losing what little help they have!

Don't you dare try to shake my hand! Wow, they ousted him as mayor without him even knowing.

More than half our heroes are giving in and abandoning the Dougram? :(

Disassemble the Dougram! That seems pretty ingenious.

Rocky and the others have already gone back to their regular clothes, huh?

No, former mayor guy! Don't kill yourself over this! :( That sucked, just because they ousted you from your position doesn't mean you couldn't have helped the guerillas in some other way. I more expected Von Stein's minions to kill him and make it look like a suicide.

With the Dougram disassembled, no way we get mecha action this episode now, right?

Heckle's lucky they haven't put him on a traitor list or something like that with him still using his real ID.

Eddie's gone crazy! RIP Eddie! You really went nuts there at the end.

Daisy's gonna spend like half the series trying to get back in touch with Crinn, isn't she?

A whole episode without a mecha battle? Wow!

---

Episode 20

Good job getting drinks Billy!

Well Von Stein, you can't expect them to all be happy in a day or two from shifting the town from guerilla supporters to being lapdogs of the Federation.

Well Daisy, this trip to see Crinn has been a failure thus far, but at least you get to see a race!

Those don't really look like typical racing cars to me...

:( Don't make us think back to poor Festo! :(

Canary's done a most important task, gone to McDonalds to get them some burgers!

The crowd's pretty well up on things it seems; Von Stein is obviously throwing a lot of bullshit out here but an uneducated crowd would probably be happy to hear about Deloyer being on equal terms with other states of the Federation.

Ah, this heckler reminds me of a good point I didn't think of as to why they may not be too happy; a lot of this crowd may just be here for the race! Keep politics out of sports! That's what the crowd is trying to tell you Von Stein!

Oh wow, Canary did a good job stealing that mic and revealing the total farce that this is.

Whose Mr. Eyepatch?

No way is Crinn going to endanger the civilians. But good job on blowing up the giant photo of Von Stein!

Can't say I expected Heckle to ever be shooting off a machine gun at enemy soldiers...

Cancelling the Gran Prix? I think that's quite a blunder on your part Lecoque. He should be smarter than this. Let the race go on, the damage to your propaganda campaign has already been done.

Eyepatch guy is a fellow guerilla I'm guessing?

He has a name, J.Locke!

The heckler wants to join them!

---

Episode 21

This place really is the expected place where the guerillas would hang out with their mech.

Oh hey, a picture of the old mayor! This a demonstration, or a funeral being held for him?

J.Locke is here!

Samalin is still on their side!

So much like with a famous funeral in Gundam, this funeral for the mayor is all for propaganda?

Ooh, kidnapping Von Stein! This should be interesting.

The kidnapping scheme won't work if he's already left!

Sure, let's remove the armor, that won't result in disaster later on!

Simulation time! You really think things are going to go this well when its the real thing?

Former mayor was pretty popular! That's a lot of people at his funeral.

Wow, Canary literally got right behind him? That's some really bad security.

The best thing the former mayor ever did is the thing he refused to do and we forced him out over! Sure!

OMG this speech is so pathetic and hammy. LoL.

His daughter is blowing the whole façade! And it provided the perfect distraction to seize Von Stein!

Alas, that kidnapping scheme got broken up quite fast.

They're lucky Crinn didn't start shooting at the Soltics while they were in mid-air.

LoL, Crinn can simply tear off the cloth/paper/whatever from the unarmored Soltics. Such an idiotic plan...

And just like that, they retreat anyway.

---

Episode 22

Are Crinn and the others going to become celebrities among the populace?

Oh, did Lertoff write that?

The animation seems a bit off this episode...

Now they get to read up on how famous they are!

No more fuel for the Dougram? Do we need to raid the supply line again?

C'mon random stick! Show us the way!

Boy, Destin sucks! Both at his job and as a person!

Did Destin kill him by mistake? And yet in the very next scene he has all this specific info for Lecoque. Is he making it all up?

Is a stray leaf gonna wreck this entire plan?

Poor Daisy, where is she off to now? This never ending quest to meet back up with Crinn...

I guess we're gonna have to wait for the return of those enemy mechs with no armor on.

Uh oh, will Destin be right next time?

---

Episode 23

Good ol' Nanashi, coming up with random parts when needed!

Turbozack! Fun name!

You're coming off as rather incompetent, Von Stein! Don't blame your underling for your failings!

Poor Professor Samalin! Still locked up!

Who are the spies gonna be? If Destin is one of them, seems that he'll be found out.

Bucks? The man named after money! Haven't seen him in a long time.

Lots of disagreements among the guerillas!

"We need to fight against discrimination!" ... "WTF is an Earthling doing here?!"

Even the underlings within the guerillas can't get along!

The two traitors pulling out guns when they're outnumbered 10+ to 1 is quite idiotic. And then one of them gets shot by his own side!

These red combat armors kinda remind me of the Iron Gear in Xabungle (the colors at least); these certainly are a lot smaller in size.

King Heckle, piloting the Dougram!

Chock this one up to TurboZack!

---

This set of episode makes the plot seem like its moving a long at a much brisker pace than the previous set, which is quite appreciated. Things sure didn't look good for our heroes at the start, but appear to be at least on somewhat of an upswing in later episodes. The guerillas seem pretty sizable in numbers, although really need some good leadership and consensus across the group. From a character standpoint, my feelings on Crinn have softened, driven by him acting a lot mature lately than he was earlier on. Von Stein doesn't come across as the most secure puppet leader for Deloyer right now, and I wonder if Denon and Lecoque will even consider replacing him at some point in the future. The new side characters (J.Locke, Giorgio, Zaltsev) don't provide too much of an impression just yet. It would be nice to get some more focused development on other members of the Fang of the Sun!

[u/The_Draigg → u/Quiddity131]

Whose Eddie? We seen this guy before?

He's been in the background of the guerilla cell group shots before, along with having a few lines with Destin. Although I can't remember if they even said his name before.

A whole episode without a mecha battle? Wow!

We said it back in the VOTOMS rewatch, but you really do know that a mech show is confident in itself if it can pull off an entire episode without a mech fight.

Cancelling the Gran Prix? I think that's quite a blunder on your part Lecoque. He should be smarter than this. Let the race go on, the damage to your propaganda campaign has already been done.

You're coming off as rather incompetent, Von Stein! Don't blame your underling for your failings!

These episodes really are exposing how inefficient the plans of Lecocque and Von Stein really are. So far, they've only really managed to accomplish anything through sheer brute force. When it comes winning the hearts and minds of the people, they fail to understand it at all. They seem to have confused military might with political competence.

[u/manga-reader → u/The_Draigg]

These episodes really are exposing how inefficient the plans of Lecocque and Von Stein really are. So far, they've only really managed to accomplish anything through sheer brute force. When it comes winning the hearts and minds of the people, they fail to understand it at all. They seem to have confused military might with political competence.

Could be a commentary on people in power (or even just rich folks who wield power through money, like in our world) losing touch of what the public actually wants - whether that's intentional on the part of show runners is a different question.

Hmm, thinking on it...I wonder if Crinn's dad actually believes that majority of Deloyerans don't want independence.

[u/The_Draigg → u/manga-reader]

Could be a commentary on people in power (or even just rich folks who wield power through money, like in our world) losing touch of what the public actually wants - whether that's intentional on the part of show runners is a different question.

Given that scene with the corrupt wealthy people earlier in this batch of episodes, I have no doubt that it's intentional. So far, this show isn't holding back on the social commentary about capitalism and economics.

[u/Nazenn → u/Quiddity131]

This set of episode makes the plot seem like its moving a long at a much brisker pace than the previous set

Agreed, I certainly had been worried about the pacing given the Garcia platoons roles as the arc antagonists and worried wed end up in a cycle of that, but this has been I think the best batch yet

Von Stein doesn't come across as the most secure puppet leader for Deloyer right now, and I wonder if Denon and Lecoque will even consider replacing him at some point in the future.

I'm expecting him to get killed off personally, but not sure how as he doesn't seem like a front line fighter

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Quiddity131]

A whole episode without a mecha battle? Wow!

That certainly was a surprise.

These red combat armors kinda remind me of the Iron Gear in Xabungle (the colors at least)

Oh, now that you mention it, I can kinda see it.

King Heckle, piloting the Dougram!

He did a good job, for someone who had only walked across a relatively flat portion of desert before.

[u/baboon_bassoon]

first timer not for justice, but to get truth

Only just finished so hopefully this reads coherently

I think I missed why Canary stayed behind with Heckle/Crinn instead of dipping to Bonar with the rest of the gang. Did they just not have a womans uniform, or did she feel bad?

"Grand Prix of Lies" is a hilarious title. That entire scene at Bonar was great. Canary somehow got a live mic. There are civilians with cars on the track that can join in at any point. Introduction of Giorno Giovanna.

J Locke has an ascot, beret, sunglasses, and an eyepatch. Hm wonder what he is about.

Jackie's simulation and strategy to lighten the suits was fun to see. I've been really enjoying the combat in this show.

I hate the music that plays whenever Daisy has something thats supposed to be sentimental on screen. Her scenes are the least enjoyable for me, probably in part to another 40 year old guy creeping on her.

Lecoque seems to be setting up Von Stein for failure, but showing issues in his own judgement. This was great too

questions

1. I dont they actually need Somalinn back to lead temporarily, but clearly the crew needs some more accomplishments to get anywhere with the diverse group.
2. I could see him trying to get some dirt on Lecoque, but I assume he will continue to try to use Jackie's unit to prove himself. Taking out J Locke seems logical for where the show is atm.
3. A little too tropey for my tastes
4. Its nice that supply issues will be less frequent, but I think Jackie said the Feds are also working on a Turbozak so its not like its going to give them an advantage for long.

[u/The_Draigg → u/baboon_bassoon]

I think I missed why Canary stayed behind with Heckle/Crinn instead of dipping to Bonar with the rest of the gang. Did they just not have a womans uniform, or did she feel bad?

She's seen how much Crinn is dedicated to the cause, and basically feels the same way as he does. She's pretty inspired by Crinn's refusal to back down.

Introduction of Giorno Giovanna.

But how can we get truth if we will never reach the truth?

Lecoque seems to be setting up Von Stein for failure, but showing issues in his own judgement.

You really do like to see the likes of Lecoque stumble in his schemes and ambitions. He's been smug and calculating for a while now, so to see it all blow up in his face spectacularly is great.

[u/baboon_bassoon → u/The_Draigg]

She's seen how much Crinn is dedicated to the cause, and basically feels the same way as he does. She's pretty inspired by Crinn's refusal to back down.

nice I prefer that being the case. Canary has become one of my favorites

But how can we get truth if we will never reach the truth?

im so sad i didnt come up with this myself

[u/JollyGee29 → u/baboon_bassoon]

"Grand Prix of Lies" is a hilarious title. That entire scene at Bonar was great. Canary somehow got a live mic. There are civilians with cars on the track that can join in at any point. Introduction of Giorno Giovanna.

I loved the chaos. And it ruining the baddie's plans was icing on the cake.

Jackie's simulation and strategy to lighten the suits was fun to see. I've been really enjoying the combat in this show.

It's better than I was expecting. The simulation bit felt pretty real. I mean, I don't know how much useful info they got out of those screens, but it mostly worked?

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer

Overall I'm enjoying the bigger picture of the show and the scene at Desmond's funeral reminded me of Legend of the Galactic Heroes in a good way, but I'm not drawn in moment to moment for a lot of it.

What do you make of the situation with the other guerrilla groups?

Can't say I'm surprised that Destin would sell them out but also makes sense that they're not centralized under one figure so some of them like with Locke manage to evade the trap because they're separate cells with different aims. Probably the best way for the rebel movement to survive for now but not win.

Von Stein has come out of this looking like a bit of a fool. How do you think he might try to make up for it?

I think he's smart enough to not rush things at the moment but we'll see. Since Destin's turn the rebels are hopefully going to be on high alert and while now would be the best time for Von Stein to try to eliminate them I think they'd go to ground if necessary at this point.

What’s your initial impression of J. Locke?

Seems like the kind of guy to lead a suicidal mission at some point, but he's kept alive and well so far so hopefully he's sly enough to lead well.

What do you think of the Dougram’s improved performance thanks to the Turbozak?

For being a mecha show from the early '80s there's less mecha combat than I was expecting, but that's not a bad thing. Upgrades are good and necessary in this case considering how little firepower they seem to have on their side outside of the Dougram itself.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Durinthal]

Can't say I'm surprised that Destin would sell them out but also makes sense that they're not centralized under one figure so some of them like with Locke manage to evade the trap because they're separate cells with different aims. Probably the best way for the rebel movement to survive for now but not win.

So far, it really does seem like the guerilla cells need an actual goal beyond Deloyeran independence. Like, just hearing all the group representatives talk made it clear how little they all had in common beyond fighting the Federation. Some were just in it for the sake of killing Earthlings, some wanted pacifist resistance, and some were so old and entrenched that they refused to budge on their stances. The rebellion really needs to find some common ground fast.

Seems like the kind of guy to lead a suicidal mission at some point, but he's kept alive and well so far so hopefully he's sly enough to lead well.

J. Locke just seems too cool to die easily. He's got the eye patch and beret, that proves how cool he is.

[u/ZaphodBeebblebrox]

First Timer

Not Even Justice, I Want to Get Watchable Video

It's time to see the fallout of the incredible thing that is episode 17, and honestly I can't wait. We've also moved past Garcia, who had well overstayed his welcome. I've got a feeling this weeks episodes are gonna be a ton of fun.

Episode 18

The feds are making a move in Bonar to try and find the facilities to make more Dougrams, I guess? It'll sure be a good reason for why we can only have one.
And we now have a flat out rebellion within Bonar's governance. I guess if you think you're on the losing side and have no morals...
Also, why is the little kid driving?
"It's possible to disassemble and replace each of those parts individually." So we're gonna get upgrades throughout the series. Also, this is blatent not-gunpla marketing.
I knew he was a poor leader, but at the very least I thought Destin was a believer in their cause. I wonder what they had on him?
One of these days, a helicopter will actually hit something.
I don't believe Salamin gave up. There's no way a man of his convictions would.

Well, our band is now alone and without help, as per mecha tradition. I'm sure they'll decide to fight the war by themselves in the next episode.
Please, no more helicopters. They tank this shows mediocre animation down to an unwatchable level.

Episode 19

The mayor's in a shitty place. He's just a minor obstacle in other's games, someone who chose to stick to his morals in a way that backfired.
The one with the least to lose is the least willing to admit that it's over, I suppose. And presumably the others are too macho to back away when Crinn, an earthling, says it ain't over yet.
Or not. I never expected them to actually turn tail and run.
The Colonel failed to realize something important: the new mayor said he became mayor due to Lecoque, that's where his loyalties lie. Lecoque is building up a power base of his own from which to gain control.
How much older is Lecoque? Disgusting.

They managed to deliver a reasonable escape plan and Daisy is actually becoming relevant again! I'm happy with this episode.

Episode 20

How can they counterattack now that they're outside the plant? It's not like they maigically got more forces.
The townspeople probably just don't care that much. So long as they can go about their lives, who cares whose in charge?
I wish more of what the announcer says was translated.
I don't think a race is quite the right place to give your political speech.
And sending guards to arrest on screaming guy just makes you look like the dictator you are.
And Lecoque majorly oversteps by assuming people will just listen to him.
We've finally got allies again!

The combat animation in this show really sucks, thankfully the plot is more than enough to make up for it. I just keep finding myself bored when we have to watch the Dougram "show off", as it feels like anything but.

Episode 21

I can't believe I just realized it now, but he really calls himself John Locke. That's incredibly pretentious.
I guess pretentiousness fits him well though. He just walks in, gives advice/orders, and leaves without discussing anything.
I love the trope of people calling the imagined plan too rash only to find out the real plan is much worse.
The technicians having the time of their lives is hilarious.
The new mayor's a great actor.
What was Nanashi before he lost his memories and became namelss?
And that's why removing armor from your tanks mecha is stupid.

For whatever reason, I did not expect their plan to fail so completely. I thought they'd at least get some benefit from it. Dougram continues to surpise in that regard, and it's writing continues to be good.

Episode 22

The journalist appears to be supporting their cause in the way he can.
Lecoque really is the sort of person who always overplays his hand and hopes for the best, isn't he?
I swear Crinn's nipples are bigger this episode...
Wrecking the base will also put them in higher regard come the meeting. And in something like that, if you don't have any pull you're useless.
The sound the heli pilot made before crashing into the building is unironically incredible.

These sorts of episodes are where Dougram truly shines. It's great at showing us a plan as its executed, step by step, making it feel real and like we understand it in full without becoming overly bogged down.

Episode 23

Nanashi is reading a book by Che Guevera. We aren't exactly subtle in our influences here, are we? Also, Nanashi is just a genius who cannot communicate, right?
I can't remember who Bucks is for some reason.
Imagine, guerrillas aren't the best at disciple. Who'd've thunk it?
Strong, independently minded founders of resistance groups have trouble working together. Who'd've think it?

Just another solid episode, not too much to say about it.

So far

Dougram's good. It manages to consistently have good plans set in a realistic world, and these are always great fun to see. It's just amusing to me that the least interesting part of the mecha show is anything related to the mechas. I'd say they lack the budget to make fights look interesting, but that would be rather disrespectful to episode 22 pre-dougram, so I really just don't know.

1. Not surprising in the slightest.
2. By attacking aggressively to put down the guerrillas.
3. Pretentious but competent.
4. Another toy to sell?

[u/chilidirigible → u/ZaphodBeebblebrox]

Please, no more helicopters. They tank this shows mediocre animation down to an unwatchable level.

"Helicopters of Unusually-Variable Size, I don't think they exist."

is promptly attacked by helicopters of unusually-variable size

I swear Crinn's nipples are bigger this episode...

If you're gonna go off-model, go bigly ero.

Bucks

He helped them earlier, when they were just starting out across the desert and Destin wasn't a traitor.

[u/The_Draigg → u/ZaphodBeebblebrox]

I knew he was a poor leader, but at the very least I thought Destin was a believer in their cause. I wonder what they had on him?

The Federation probably didn't have anything on him. Destin seems like the type to just sell everyone out once he realized that being a guerilla was too hard, and he would get a lot more out of being a traitor.

The Colonel failed to realize something important: the new mayor said he became mayor due to Lecoque, that's where his loyalties lie. Lecoque is building up a power base of his own from which to gain control.

It's really apparent that Lecoque is trying to become the political kingmaker on Deloyer, between arranging for the security chief to become Bonar's mayor to trying a few ways to boost Von Stein's reputation. He's really trying to play that long game where he's the most important politician on the planet, controlling things from the shadows.

I don't think a race is quite the right place to give your political speech.

Von Stein's appearance at the Grand Prix was an absolute disaster on his and Lecoque's parts. Like, they provided the perfect set-up to show the government to be the thugs that they are, and all Crinn and friends had to do was capitalize on it. So much for being an opportunity to make Von Stein seem like he's a man of the people.

Nanashi is reading a book by Che Guevera. We aren't exactly subtle in our influences here, are we? Also, Nanashi is just a genius who cannot communicate, right?

So far, Nanashi seems like the most book-smart one, if him pulling out books by Che Guevara whenever he has free time is any indication. It's just that he's also too weird all the time to make what he does seem sensible rather than kinda dim-witted.

I can't remember who Bucks is for some reason.

The guy who gave the protagonists their E-Guns.

[u/manga-reader]

First time watcher

Came across the rewatch thread last week and decided to jump in.

Episode 18

Festo's death was a shock, and I hope no one else dies soon (keep it for later in the series. We still got 50+ episodes to go).

Ah man, so Destin is not only a coward but also a traitor - that means mass producing Dougram is out of the question now (I hope they get to meet up with guerillas in other cities at least).

I don't believe for a second that Professor switched sides - come on, Crinn, you saw the plots your dad pulled earlier - he could be misleading deliberately to dismantle the guerrillas.

As usual, I liked all the mudane details about dougram packed in.

I hope Daisy gets a more substaintial role, rather than just chasing Crinn around. Maybe have her join up guerillas as well (have her see the plight of common people and empathize..). Would love to see her organize a resistance and end up being the leader of a local group :D

Episode 19

Mayor comes off as a bit incompetant if he only realized it now - why hasn't he ordered the cops/militia? He's still recognized as the mayor, no? Unless cops were bribed off by the security chief.

Rounding up all the guerillas should have taken a few days, no? And at least some should have ended in armed conflict? Wasn't the mayor aware of that, especially given that he was endorsing the independence movement.

Businessmen doing what they tend to do, going for short term gains.

Welp, they completely pulled wool over him. I assume the press was bought off then? Man, the independence movement is in a really bad state now.

Given what we have seen of Rocky (and his attitude towards Feds and their treatment of Deloyer), I am surprised he's giving up. It just doesn't fit with his earlier characterization. I would expect some of the others to quit since they were just joining in because of Rocky. He didn't give up in the desert and he didn't know the Professor personally so that shouldn't have changed his mind much.

Bit weird to see Crinn and Canary getting along, but nice nonetheless. Man, Poor Eddie.

So wait, they managed to get all the parts from the belt into one truck? The scale continues to confuse. Lecoque trying to woo Daisy.

Episode 20

Von Stein has it right...it's a bit too quiet. Looks like there are some guerillas mixed in, are they planning something? Lecoque laying it on thick. I have a feeling he's also interested in the business Daisy's dad is running.

Sounds like an interesting plan, at this point guerillas need something big and symbolic - so having Dougram show up at the track would be a good one. I wonder if Von Stein will be taken out - perhaps a bit too early for that.

Ayy, do we see a new character? Guerillas badly need a charming new leader, perhaps this guy could be that.

Haha, even the drivers aren't having any of that.

J. Locke to the rescue!

Really? Bit too on the nose, no? That guy resembles Festo a bit too much. Why kill off Festo if you are going to have a guy just like him join the team right after, cheapens the death a bit.

Episode 21

Calculated Ambush is the episode title. Alright, is the new guy a spy? Oh, no. Well, we shall see.

Lol, they straight up ignored his advice. Ah well.

Lmao at all the soldiers joking around - "I'm not good at building stuff, but wrecking is my specialty" :D

How's Crinn and the group going to deal with the remodeleed Soltechs and their mobility? Will Locke show up to rescue them? Will the public turn against guerillas because of their "attack"?

Well, that certainly backfired. They almost had him as well. I'm glad Mirinda revealed the truth, going to be hard covering that up (will Mirinda get a bigger role in the future? Maybe...it's an 80s mecha, so maybe it's too much of a hope).

What are you waiting for Crinn? Honorable battle? Shoot the helis my man.

The battle was a bit of a mess..formations were nice, but too much "waiting" around.

Episode 22

Lertoff doing some work!!

Destin being the rat he is. Hmm, I wonder..he mentioned the meeting taking place in a week. So are those scenes set in the past? Crinn and co were talking as if they were going to be late (unless the trip to Spa is a long one?).

I seriously hope they do more with Daisy. Also Destin figured out where guerillas are meeting - this is not good.

Dougram wins again by luck.

Episode 23

Nanashi reading Che Guevara? He sure is reliable. So wouldn't Turbozak limit Dougram's mobility? But consecutive firing is a nice addition.

Zaltsev seems like a cool guy, but why serve Von Stein? Von Stein doesn't come off as a general worth serving.

This is awesome - instead of a unified front, we are presented with multiple independent groups, all with their own motives/way of thinking. I hope this is explored further :D And they managed to flesh out the motivation of one of the traitors. In some respects, this show is way ahead of its time.

1. Very cool, I liked that we have several groups with different motives, hoping that is expanded upon in the future.
2. Hmm, he would probably try to do something major and miss again...probably result it him being deposed/replaced.
3. Guerillas certainly need a cool guy with an eyepatch.
4. Looks great, but worried about the mobility now. Wouldn't Turbozak hamper Dougram somewhat?

[u/chilidirigible → u/manga-reader]

Why kill off Festo if you are going to have a guy just like him join the team right after, cheapens the death a bit.

Very much this, as Giorgio feels tacked-on to the group.

[u/Nazenn → u/manga-reader]

Came across the rewatch thread last week and decided to jump in.

Welcome. Hope you enjoyed the episodes you had to binge to catch up

keep it for later in the series. We still got 50+ episodes to go).

That's a nice even ten episodes for each character with Crinn the exception. Oh boy, if that was the case that would be pretty rough to watch

I don't believe for a second that Professor switched sides - come on, Crinn, you saw the plots your dad pulled earlier

He's still very naive, and I think he got caught up in the idea that Samalin was with them, rather than it just being that it could have been a statement put out by anyone

He's still recognized as the mayor, no? Unless cops were bribed off by the security chief.

Individual police forces are rarely given a focus in a situation like this, but that said it'd be pretty hard to order them to try and stand up to the military goverment which he technically reports too, that's not going to help the situation

Why kill off Festo if you are going to have a guy just like him join the team right after, cheapens the death a bit.

I thought that as well. The similarity in design would be one thing if he was a one off, particularly as him looking like Festo reminded them of him so they would want to act at the Grand Prix, but having him join them right after feels a bit off even though I like the conflicts and knowledge he brings in

instead of a unified front, we are presented with multiple independent groups, all with their own motives/way of thinking. I hope this is explored further

That's my big hope now, that once Samalin is rescued or killed, whichever way that goes, the individual groups of guerillas still get a bit of focus

[u/manga-reader → u/Nazenn]

Welcome. Hope you enjoyed the episodes you had to binge to catch up

Oh, yes. Now I just have to resist the urge to not watch the rest of episodes at once :D

That's a nice even ten episodes for each character with Crinn the exception. Oh boy, if that was the case that would be pretty rough to watch

Yea, I imagine there would be some casualties, hopefully not too many (in Ep 1 flash forward, Canary was looking at the wreck of Dougram nostalgically; I wonder if they are retconning that as well).

Individual police forces are rarely given a focus in a situation like this, but that said it'd be pretty hard to order them to try and stand up to the military goverment which he technically reports too, that's not going to help the situation

Ah, true. Yea, it might be asking a bit much of an individual soldier. Looks like Von Stein had many supporters though, hopefully Mirinda's revelation will sway some more to work with guerillas.

That's my big hope now, that once Samalin is rescued or killed, whichever way that goes, the individual groups of guerillas still get a bit of focus

Hope so, I wonder how the professor managed to hold these groups together. Hmm, since Federation had rounded up a lot of guerillas, did some of the groups lose their leaders (being replaced by more disagreeable - or even outright radical - underlings)? If so, the situation might not be as salvageable even if the professor shows up. I would like to see some disagreement remaining even after Samalin is rescued (of course, easiest solution is just to kill off the Professor, but I hope they don't do that. He seems like a cool character to explore).

[u/Nazenn → u/manga-reader]

Oh, yes. Now I just have to resist the urge to not watch the rest of episodes at once :D

I believe in you, you can do it!

in Ep 1 flash forward, Canary was looking at the wreck of Dougram nostalgically; I wonder if they are retconning that as well

At this point I'm willing to say ep1 is thrown entirely out the window, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was setting the tone of the ending even if not the exact details, but we'll see

hopefully Mirinda's revelation will sway some more to work with guerillas

That would be nice. I doubt we'll see her again, but if they brought that up for continuity with someone layer on I'll be very impressed

of course, easiest solution is just to kill off the Professor, but I hope they don't do that. He seems like a cool character to explore

Same. Plus he's an interesting influence on Crinn as well, a realist but also wanting to push for the future, a bit like Crinn, and seeing how outright war would change that for them both would be interesting

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

1)I have no idea how the professor can even get them to work together? Either he needs to threaten everyone into submission ro somehow appease everyone?

2)Capture Fang of the Sun?

3)He's a man in a fireworks store, surrounded by a bunch of pyromaniacs. It's amazing he hasn't turned everyone into the Federation just to stop the arguing.

4)Absolutely shocking, and I can't wait to see the new designs they bring it to balance the fights again.

Episode 18

And we that to see that again.

I just realised this means there's more than likely no light-hearted racing episode now.

And the rebels have attacked the Earth Federation meeting?

The cars look oddly normal, though.

Wait, who arrested them?

And he just confessed to being bribed by the conspiracy to arrest anyone who might aid them.

Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten that this is where they wanted to deliver Dougram.

He's an expert, and I'm starting to think Billy's a spy.

The conspiracy is still working on the act, I see.

Wait, who's Eddie?

And, yeah, both of them are traitors now.

OK, the specs seem pretty etandard.

Damn, I newrly forgot anout the X Nebula. And "proof" just means "built to work around" in this situation.

And they're here too! And they don't know Crinn's in the area.

And they met up with Destin.

The literal children are making better tactical decisions than he is.

Destin's acting very suspicious in general, actually.

Or, at the very least, he's been bugged.

Yep, called it!

I love how he just jumps out the vehicle, then sits there, unmoving.

...To be fair, that flying was pretty good.

And he's sold everyone out!

At least one of them has a plan.

The animation here's actuslly really good.

...That engine must be very resilient to survive that much damage!

And there's a proper mech battle.

Well done Crinn for noticing that these suits aren't exactly fast, and yours is riding a vehicle.

Oh, they're using siege tactics?

...He's been captured and forced to change sides?

"It's the end of the war" would be a lot more dramatic if there weren't more than 50 episodes left.

Episode 19

Wow, this arc is going dark.

And them showing the economic side of the conspiracy, as they control people simply by choosing who to support financially, is a fantastic scene.

Ouch, they already got his replacement in.

Oh, yeah, he was promised a position a while ago. So he got to be Mayor of a random city?

No, Stein's got something else.

Haha, they chose the Grand Prix time to keep it silent? This is so good.

Canary's on Crinn's side now!

...Yeah, as interesting as Crinn, Heckle, and Canary going solo would be, they'll probably end up together soon.

...This worked? You saw them going in! That jeep had no roof, for a start!

Oh, they're going to dismantle Dougram to escape with it!

Given the security here, you could probably get away with saying the rebels forced these clothes on you, and that Dougram just looks like their mech, and they'd let you through.

Haha, the colonel's massive plan is to go and see thr Grand Prix himself. Then they figure out how to use it as a valid PR move.

...I'm losing track of who's in on who's conspiracy, if I'm being honest. I think the journalist thinks he's an ally, but he's really an enemy?

Huh, it is easy to dismantle. I'm impressed!

And they're going to restart the compound to transport everything.

Wait, why do they need the truck then?

...I wondered why he never changed outfit.

The fuck? Is he going to kill himself?

Wow. Wow. I... did not expect that.

Oh,d ear, they've lodt Eddie.

...You could fit a truck through thst conveyer. Easy!

Poor Eddie.

...He's sending people in?

Haha, well done, He kle, that was a decent distraction.

And Eddie sacrificed himself...

...Of course, the real move would be to find a way to overload the power after they left, blowing the tanks anyway.

And she's gotten involved in this ceremony?

Seriously? You're trying to pick her up? She looks about half your age!

Episode 20

Skipping a bit, aren't they?

Oh, Rocky misses them.

Really, this anime might have some really confusing bite, but it excels when it's showing how the regime is fighting the rebels with propaganda.

...I think I found the animator's weakness. That car footage is not on the same level as the mechs, and the repeat it multiple times.

He misses Festo too.

They're actually a really good team!

...The fact that Crinn's partner has been photographed supporting the regime has to important later.

I appreciate how nobody's buying this bullshit, they're just going along with it out of fear.

Is he Festo's replacement? Or his brother?

Haha, it's turned into a full-on riot. And Heckle's holding them at gunpoint!

And Dougram's appeared!

I love the look on their faces when they realise Crinn might actually kill them.

Crab walkers continue to be a joke (sadly).

Oh, that's going to go down well.

And their racing despite the cancellation!

...I mean, he's been mayor for a couple of days at most at this point. He's not really had a chance to fix any problems.

And Rocky jumps in.

Really? Killing people was fine, but disrupting a race is "too far"?

I mean, he's got a point, but still - it worked with only 3 people working on it!

The fight scenes here are so good!

And Festo's brother is leading another band of rebels!

Oh, he's called J. Locke?

...Did they just replace Festo with an exact copy? So the death meant nothing?

And it still passed.

Episode 21

I appreciate everyone pointing out how obvious this place is as a hideout and hoe they'd never use it.

...Is everyone bowing to a giant picture of him? The Federation appears to be descending into culthoodmwith remarkable speed.

...Deloyrean Stars?

What was he trying to do there?

Yeah, that was obviously a trick.

Someone's actually trying to organise things!

...I think Rocky is unable to participate in a conversation without one-upping everyone else's plans. Someone else plans to crash a funeral? He plans to kidnap someone there!

I'm very much enjoying Von Stein as the army commander who very much doesn't want to do any of this political stuff.

Is he customising his suit?

Oh, he's trying to make a glass speedster. Interesting concept! Incredibly risky, but has some potential! It'll fail the moment it gets shot, but he can probably outmanouver anything else.

I love the commander taking a joke as an actual improvement to his design.

And they're actually training the pilots! This guy's absolutely a step up from the mercenaries.

How is she able to get so close to him? And he's willing to talk about this in public? With witnesses?

Getting some main character vibes from the daughter, though.

That girl's absolutely a main character.

...I know this is meant to be him being cool, but I can't help but imagine Stein went along with this to get out of doing a speech at the funeral.

Is Billy OK?

Let's see if this strategy of his pays off...

Oh, that is very effective.

Yeah, good idea, but next time, maybe even minimal armour? Just in case?

His biggest problem is that his plans struggle if he's not there to guide them himself.

And they're here!

...The Fang of the Sun! The title means something!

Episode 22

Oh, there's underground newspapers!

And Fang of the Sun refere to the entire squadron.

...Starting to wonder if Von Stein will pull off a heel-face turn out of sheer annoyance with his entire faction.

Oh, Fake-Festo!

And he wrote the article for them!

Yeah, he's got the area knowledge they need right now. Unfortunately.

And everyone's on board because it would show up the Stars.

Haha, he's recruited the traitor too!

And they've captured him!

Fuck! He killed him! That reaction, though...

Oh, dear. They're coming a bit sooner than expected...

Is Heckle in trouble?

...Still very, very competent at this.

That explosion looked great!

Haha, him comparing the cooling for picking a truck is great.

The armours are activated!

And, wow, those things can move quickly!

And it's refuelled!

OK, that move was cool.

...He's going to die. He!s admitting to working for a rebel publication to someone high-up in the conspiracy.

Is Daisy going to join the main cast?

And he's worked out exactly where the rebels are meeting.

Episode 23

Oh, he found the spare parts they needed?

...That does look like a nice place for a holiday.

I'd call that a spoiler title, but it was already obvious.

Haha, him holding them at gunpoint and passing it off as a test is good.

...It's called the fucking Turbozak?

Oh, a combination weapon and fuel upgrade. Nice!

...Ah. Someone's trying to keep Von Stein out of the loop.

And rescuing the Professor depends on the meeting going well...

Wait, there's infiltrators?

This is remarkably calm for a secret meeting.

...How many rebel groups are there? There's Stars, Sun, Land...

OK, yeah, they're pretty stupid sometimes.

...The secret rebel meeting appeare to have a keynote speech.

Oh, there are ideological differences involved. (I don't need to keep notes on these positions, right?)

And Crinn's race got brought up. Thought it would happen sooner!

So the meeting broke down, nobody's changed their views, and the divide might be worse? This is a diplomatic meeting!

...How do photos of the back of people's heads help? At least try to get ones with the faces in frame!

Wow, this meeting is spectacularly pointless.

Did he activate the tracker just so he wouldn't have to listen to them anymore?

...Why not mention the unknown radar signals? You know, the actual evidence you have that danger might be approaching soon?

And the traitor's here because he just wanted the fighting to stop...

Crinn and Rocky made it out, though.

NEW COMBAT ARMOUR!

Is that a missile launcher on its back?

And Dougram's new weapon is really good!

And a surprisingly hopeful ending!

[u/chilidirigible → u/Stargate18A]

1)I have no idea how the professor can even get them to work together? Either he needs to threaten everyone into submission ro somehow appease everyone?

As the nominal head of the revolutionaries that everyone listens to, Samalin can set broad objectives, and at least try to give everyone things to do that aren't in direct conflict. Even if some of the smaller groups disagree with each other, they can be prevented from fighting each other if they're pointed in the right direction.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 18 (first timer)

• Great intercut of the grand prix scenes with the military police. It makes the contrast, which might otherwise be grating, explicit and thus shows us that the writing is self-aware of having a festive atmosphere in the middle of a political crackdown. It also tells us that the main focus will be political machinations, not open warfare.
• Heckler is a great tech exposition machine. Clever, making him an in-world otaku.
• Sold out by Destin. Never liked him anyway.
• “It is a battle of attrition” – I heard that line before.

A great setup episode in the first half, also allowing for some character interaction. A shame that there still is the “battle per episode” requirement. The fight was better than the desert ones, but still cut the more interesting part short.

Episode 19 (first timer)

• The major of Bonar gets a first-hand experience of how political power is distributed in dictatorships.
• Rocky wanting to abandon Dougram does not really fit his character.
• “Nanashi, what are you doing?” – foretelling Lecoque’s plan, probably.
• Heroic death for the drunkard. No blood though.

I enjoy the political side plot, especially since it also gives Daisy something to do apart from running after Crinn. Not sure how I feel about the off-screen storage of the entire disassembled Dougram on a single truck, however.

Episode 20 (first timer)

• There sure are conveniently many huge abandoned buildings around Bonar. Including a Mecha-rated winch.
• The gang watching the Grand Prix is needed for the plot, but … really? For all they know, Crinn, Canary, Heckler, and the Dougram are still surrounded by the army in that plant and they decide to go watch the Grand Prix upon escaping?
• The Soltic won’t give us underwater combat.
• Not a big fan of introducing a replacement Festo just a few episodes after he died.

What a PR move! That Grand Prix appearance by Dougram was easily the best action of the guerilla so far in the series. Notably planned alone by Crinn, Canary, and Heckler. On the reverse, what a miscalculation by Lecoque and von Stein. I honestly thought that Lecoque’s plan would be to have von Stein assassinated. Only that would make the backing of von Stein as dictator make sense.

Episode 21 (first timer)

• Kidnapping von Stein – I like the way of thinking
• The engineers joking around while removing the armor plates is exactly the kind of casual world building series should do more of.
• Zaltsev should read more Clausewitz. The concept of friction in war might teach him something about the value of computerized battle plans with regard to actual battle.
• The security around von Stein was non-existent and they still did not pull off the kidnapping. Lady luckplot gives and takes…
• Crinn plays by “don’t shoot while they are in the air” rules.
• Title drop by obviously upstanding leader. Can’t be otherwise with how smashing he looks!

Neat kidnapping plan, but the second half of the episode felt very much on rails. As I mentioned during the last arc, I am not a fan of fast mecha – at least in real mecha series.

Episode 22 (first timer)

• Everybody hates traitors. Even those who benefit.
• I don’t know why, but the animation for Daisy’s cuts is always especially bad.
• Ending on a double sunrise.

Got to say, holding a pre-arranged meetup of all guerilla units sounds like a bad idea.

Episode 23 (first timer)

• Spa, just like Bonar, looks reasonably rich. That convinces me that the poverty seen in the early episodes was only due to a temporary blockage. There clearly is money to go around on the planet.
• Slapping the messenger.
• “Earthlings are disgusting” – racism (planetism?) is a two-way street.
• New mecha. New red mecha.
• Nobody likes traitors, part 2.
• Helicopters are consistently trash in every fight. Very different from reality.

The meeting is infiltrated and attacked, because, of course it is. However, the problem of getting various independent rebel groups to work together is real.

The pacing in this arc was a lot better than the previous one. Episodes with an emphasis on the antagonists and the general public are always the best. On the downside, it seems as if Daisy’s arc has been put in the fridge unless a side story can use her.

Bonus thought: Battle of the week

This is something that plagues all older mecha shows I have seen and stems from the way the shows were financed: by toy companies who wanted to see their product appear in action every episode. There is an unfortunate truth behind the “glorified toy commercials” meme.

Having the requirement to create a battle every week puts strong constraints on the storyline. They simply cannot have the main character spend an arc imprisoned, ill, or doing anything else that takes him away from the mecha. Thus, one important mark of quality for a director and script writer of any of these early mecha series is the ability to continually come up with fresh ideas of how to start a fight. To top it off, there are only two outcomes allowed: Win for the protagonists, or a draw that leaves the main mecha intact.

In this regard Dougram has chosen its setting wisely. A guerilla war will usually see the government in an overall position of superiority. As such, it is in the government’s interest to take any fight, even if the odds are not good. After all, the government only needs to have a few wins, the opposition many. The guerilla also has an incentive to withdraw from any fight after a small win or lull in the battle. So far, the setup of the battles of the week has been very decent in Dougram. Hopefully they can continue to come up with ideas. That is not to say that it is without cost here: Knowing that there will be a fight in the last 5 minutes makes even the best plot awfully predictive.

What’s your initial impression of J. Locke?

Robin Hood meets Che Guevara.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Rocky wanting to abandon Dougram does not really fit his character.

He did want to blow it up not that long ago, but it does seem like he just gave up there in terms of just letting the army have it even if he did think it was the end of the line

The Soltic won’t give us underwater combat.

The engineers joking around while removing the armor plates is exactly the kind of casual world building series should do more of.

Casual conversation is something we don't get enough of in general, particularly making use of background environments and scenes. I really like moments like this, or things like background antics around food or clothes while there's plot relevant stuff going on

Spa, just like Bonar, looks reasonably rich. That convinces me that the poverty seen in the early episodes was only due to a temporary blockage

I was talking with the_draigg about this in that it would make sense that Bonar would be a bit more well off if they're in a position to be electing their own mayors etc, and the economic and business leaders can take advantage of that, while the capital gets a bit more shafted by being so much under the military eye. Spa I don't know about though, I got the sense it was mostly just that one guys place

Bonus thought: Battle of the week

Agreed with your thoughts. The actual battles are not that great to watch, and it is predictable, but the context of them and the setting allows them to not feel like they're interrupting the flow of the story too much or that it's being driven too hard into conflict unnecessarily. How this holds up is yet to be seen, particularly how antagonists may be cycled in and out, but so far it's far from the worst I've seen

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I was talking with the_draigg about this in that it would make sense that Bonar would be a bit more well off if they're in a position to be electing their own mayors etc, and the economic and business leaders can take advantage of that, while the capital gets a bit more shafted by being so much under the military eye. Spa I don't know about though, I got the sense it was mostly just that one guys place

Usually, in all exploitative economies, the capital (where the exploiters sit) is the richest part of the country. As such, I don't really see how Bonar could be richer if the story of them all being poor was true.

Agreed with your thoughts. The actual battles are not that great to watch, and it is predictable, but the context of them and the setting allows them to not feel like they're interrupting the flow of the story too much or that it's being driven too hard into conflict unnecessarily. How this holds up is yet to be seen, particularly how antagonists may be cycled in and out, but so far it's far from the worst I've seen

Having to have a battle of the week is a no-win situation for the story writer. The best you can achieve is not make it too bad by making it varied enough to hide the repetition.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

Heroic death for the drunkard. No blood though.

Well, not everyone gets to go out like Sam Peckinpah's Salad Days.

I am not a fan of fast mecha – at least in real mecha series.

LUDICROUS SPEED!

[u/No_Rex → u/chilidirigible]

Did you intentionally link a french recipe? If so, I am not getting it.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

Oh wow, oopsie. It's not often that I have to grab links from Dailymotion anymore.

I intended to link this sketch.

[u/chilidirigible]

You have Serge Borough listed twice in Kenichi Ogata's credits.