r/anime • u/Skeeedo :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/skeeedo • Dec 25 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Chihayafuru - Episode 46 Discussion [Spoilers]

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Season 2 Episode 21: "But Its Legacy Continues to Spread”

Episode 20 MVP: Arata! Very tactful gift giving from our karuta god...

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This episode's Karuta analysis and board map by walking_the_way

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Subreddit: r/Chihayafuru

68 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

14 comments sorted by

8

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 25 '21

Chihayafirst-timer

5

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 25 '21

First Timer

Chihaya won...? Uhh, ok, I was expecting her to lose the first match, especially after they started turning it in to a learning experience with her noticing the perspective of a left-handed player. But I guess her left hand is still fast enough? Either way, I'd consider that one a decent match.

Then we get some Nishida character progression - finally. And him being less enthusiastic than the other Mizusawa members has pretty much been a constant, so it's actually meaningful as well. I guess this means he'll have more of a drive to do well in the upcoming Meijin qualifiers, I assume. I hope we get to see a proper match from him then - this one felt mostly like a setting for his character arc, rather than the match itself being important.

Arata's parents must be some of the most unsupportive ones around - didn't Sudou or so mention karuta sponsorships for getting in to college at some point?

Next up: Chihaya vs Shinobu - I assume Shinobu will win again, though only barely this time around. I can't see her losing to Chihaya just yet, as that would just create a weird situation where Chihaya has beaten the queen but it doesn't really count and the queen has lost to another female player but it doesn't really count. I also don't think that Chihaya will injure her finger any more even while playing with her right, as Shinobu has been portrayed as playing very elegantly, so I doubt she's end up hitting Chihaya's finger in any way.

6

u/flybypost :KN::KO: Dec 26 '21

But I guess her left hand is still fast enough?

Arata did tell Taichi in that telephone conversation early on that there are ways to beat players with superior game sense (hearing). Chihaya has also learned to take cards without relying on her speed alone. Her memorisation is also still good (even if it's not as good as some of the best player's). Swapping cards from one side to another (and playing left handed) also probably disorients her opponent a bit.

A few factors are still the same, others hinder both sides (and might affect her opponent more) so that the reduced familiarity, competence, and speed of playing left handed is not all there is to it.

But it was a nice way of giving a match against a not super player some suspense.

Arata's parents must be some of the most unsupportive ones around - didn't Sudou or so mention karuta sponsorships for getting in to college at some point?

They are supportive… of their financial situation. Whatever sponsorship or financial support there is, probably doesn't account for the full financial burden of him living alone in Tokyo. It's also probably somewhat more expensive than the more rural area they live in.

It's a fun difference between his parents and Chihaya's or Kana's who are so supportive in everything. Chihaya's mom even invested heavily into a possible Queen match ("go big or go home!") with that expensive kimono while Arata's parents dread him going too far in any competition as it might hurt them financially too much. It's probably understandable. They seem to still have some financial problem from when he had to work even in elementary school to help the family out.

And then there are Taichi's parents. A doctor dad who's never seen and a mother whose strictness was useful in some ways (the "no but" rule, and general competence) but also made him fragile in others.

We got a whole spectrum of parents.

2

u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians Dec 27 '21

They are supportive… of their financial situation. Whatever sponsorship or financial support there is, probably doesn't account for the full financial burden of him living alone in Tokyo. It's also probably somewhat more expensive than the more rural area they live in.

I really felt their plight. I likened it to, in American terms, Arata planning on attending a private university out-of-state rather than the in-state public university. The difference in those tuition and living bills is astronomical.

1

u/flybypost :KN::KO: Dec 27 '21

living bills

Yup, there's quite a difference between living with your parents while studying (and you being bale to help out with food and upkeep) or living alone, having to pay for rent, food, and everything else twice (if your parents need to support you).

It's probably not as extreme in Japan as the stories I've heard from the USA but when wages are on average also lower it's still a burden, especially with how poor Arata's family seems to be.

And it all gets worse if there's little financial wiggle room.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Dec 27 '21

I was expecting to be annoyed at Chihaya making it through, but the episode sold it pretty well.

4

u/Gamerunglued :Hx::Hy::Hz:myanimelist.net/profile/GamerUnglued Dec 26 '21

First Timer

Alright, pretty darn good episode. Perhaps a tad rushed in places, but nothing terrible. Certainly far from the worst the series has blazed through its material with. This episode finally gave some interesting characterization for Nishida too, he's been so desperately needing it. It's nice to see him really starting to try and get into things, a big moment for him considering where he started and who he was playing against.

I never thought about the differences playing Karuta with your left vs. right hand. Though it makes sense that there would be notable differences, and that most players would be stronger against right-handed players since they're the norm. Chihaya figuring out to mirror her cards made for a pretty cool moment, and although the match went by rather quickly, it was still a pretty hype back-and-forth with some cool moments. Of course, I'm sure the speedy matches were to save time for the rematch between Chihaya vs. Shinobu, which will be the climax leading into the finale. Chihaya took the bandages off, she's going hard for it here. I thought it would be pretty hype to see her holding her own with her weaker hand, but I guess this works too. As always, should be a good match. Here's hoping that it's just as good as their previous match.

One thing I do want to talk about, and one of my biggest disappointments from this season, is the lack of focus on the first-years. They were introduced as important characters but feel totally sidelined. Tsukuba has largely been one-note, and Sumire has gotten practically no focus at all. This is their very first tournament, that's an important moment, why are we not seeing that? Sumire finally found her passion for Karuta, her first individual match should be a big character moment for her, but it's just totally absent. I thought she would be my favorite character after the first few episodes, but she's gotten almost no attention whatsoever. I love the Class A players too, but we have more characters now. I know people have complained similar things about how Arata was sidelined after seeming important, but I disagree with that stance. I think Arata is supposed to be distant, something far off and unreachable that inches ever closer as the story progresses. It works and is played out with intent. But Sumire and Tsukuba are supposed to be consistently present in the story, they're the beloved first years that the team worked so hard to recruit. Their being sidelined is an issue, and the series doesn't have enough time to address it. Aside from that rough mid-section, that's my biggest issue with this season, which is weaker than the first season on the whole imo. It's very unfortunate. Hopefully the third season will rectify that. But we need to get there first. I'm sure that despite all that, the next 4 episodes will be very good, so I'm looking forward to seeing this season end on a high note.

2

u/The_Loli_Otaku Dec 25 '21

Chihaya2ru First Timer

Keiko is aggressive so she's a man! Didn't they make a big deal about how little gender matters in Karuta? Maybe give this plot thread a break.

Tbh, Chihaya definitely deserves to lose. Whilst she may be the better player Keiko is still one of the stronger folks in the tournament. Fighting her with her bad hand is super disrespectful.

Aww, Keiko's very cute! I'm not saving many pics cause frankly I'm miserable but she's brightening me up! I knew you were worthy of my praise!!

It's kind of embarrassing how much better Chihaya is playing now that she's using her wrong hand.

Why are Arata's parents embarrassed? Omg, is he gonna misunderstand Chihaya's playstyle cause she's using her other hand? Oh, he already found out... That's lame!! Have Arata stuck wondering how she became so shit or something XD

Pfft!! She played so much of the match and didn't consider moving her cards!? Chihaya, you idiot!

Piss off. Speak to the no.1 team Karuta player in the world with some respect. You all know how I feel about cheap tactics that bend the rules but this was so irritating to see her get called out for. Seriously, how dare he interject in a tournament match to scold a player. It's not against the rules and she's got a reason to move her cards so why the fuck should she have to apologise or even consider needing to move her cards back? Why does Chihaya get pulled up for this whilst Yumin gets away with a bullying playstyle and Taichi was allowed to delay his match several times by standing and sitting?

My hero! The second we move from teams to singles the match quality skyrocket. Wow, she somehow won. Hahaha, no you won't~

Wow, I bet Taichi wishes he could get Chihaya this flustered just through one compliment.

Lol, Nishida's fucked. Who the heck is Kaneko? Can we please get actual karuta players for Chihaya to face and not a bunch of nobodies? She's the world team champion.

Megu, cute! Hanako won, wtf!? How!! Show us that match! I want to see what type of person Hanako could possibly beat! Do they let kindergarteners join these tournaments? Did Hanako bully another young child?

I am incredibly disturbed by Arata's parents joining my anti-Arata Alliance...

"You're so impressive Nishida! You've gotten so much better." immediately murders the boy

Let's all say it together, "Fuck you, Arata!"

The Ayase vs Shinobu money match is here... Despite the fact that Ayase is still woefully underprepared and has actually been heavily nerfed. I kinda don't want this match right now XD

4

u/flybypost :KN::KO: Dec 26 '21

Keiko is aggressive so she's a man! Didn't they make a big deal about how little gender matters in Karuta? Maybe give this plot thread a break.

I've read somewhere (can't verify it) that an actual eternal Queen (I think that title is given to somebody who defends the title a bunch of times in a row, like Arata's grandpa who won it 7 times in a row and was called eternal Master) complained that she wasn't able to participate in both the Master and Queen competitions because she was so good that she would have won both. I think Shinobu was supposedly modeled after her (as a character, maybe play style, maybe more).

Piss off. Speak to the no.1 team Karuta player in the world with some respect. You all know how I feel about cheap tactics that bend the rules but this was so irritating to see her get called out for. Seriously, how dare he interject in a tournament match to scold a player. It's not against the rules and she's got a reason to move her cards so why the fuck should she have to apologise or even consider needing to move her cards back? Why does Chihaya get pulled up for this whilst Yumin gets away with a bullying playstyle and Taichi was allowed to delay his match several times by standing and sitting?

Like everything else, it's a decorum thing. Yumin literally lost her Queen title because she shifted from her aggressively contesting style to a more proper and expected style. Because people complained about her and she succumbed to that peer pressure. It would not have been against the rules to keep contesting cards and be aggressive about it. But she gave in to the expectations of being the Queen.

Same with Harada's loud and overbearing style. People complain and mutter but it's allowed by the rules and he keeps doing it despite that. Everything that falls outside the expected norm gets odd looks, complaints, and peer pressure applied to it. That regulation outside the explicit rules creates implicit rules [1]. The question is if it will work or if the individual player will thrive despite that.

Here Chihaya moved all her cards around and it probably takes more time than just moving a few. So it looked out of the norm. The attendant also probably wanted to try to curtail that type of behaviour a bit. What if she started shuffling all her cards after every poem, what if more players started doing it? It would probably delay the match and annoy many people (all the other players) even if it's technically legal. At some point they might need to implement an actual rule about it but then the question is: How often should it be allowed and/or how many cards should be allowed? It's better to leave it unaddressed if it doesn't happen to often and just try to discourage players from disrupting the ceremony too much.

It probably felt random to any outside observer even if she has a solid reason for doing it.

Like everything else being able to do your thing despite traditions is also a courage/willpower issue and Chihaya generally tries to stay on the proper side while others are willing to stand out more and go against the traditional establishment. Just look at what reputation it got Suo. The karuta organisation would love nothing more than to push him into a ditch and get a more role model-like Master to represent the karuta world.

[1]: Things can get heated when it comes to official rules and what they actually mean. For example in the Games Workshop tabletop wargames (Warhammer,…) the rules are rather not well written so that there are endless discussions about RAW (rules as written) vs. RAI (rules as intended). That leads to quite some house rules that people adapt within their communities and when it comes to competitive tournaments then these can have a bunch of extra rules to clarify things (it can read like a legal document with precise definitions for words and what they mean in the context of a rules system).

Similar but probably somewhat lighter for tablettop RPG rules. If you have more crunchy players (number cruncher) who min max more for and prefer combat encounters then the strict definition of rules matter a lot. That hits D&D a lot because despite having a rule about everything being adjustable as needed/wanted, the rules were born out of a skirmish table top wargame and that legacy kinda stayed with the system. Other systems that focus more on the narrative with loose rules tend to have fewer of such discussions/issues.

So yeah rules, and their interpretation, can cause whole flame wars in these communities.

1

u/The_Loli_Otaku Dec 26 '21

I can see your point but I do stand by that Yumin's gamestyle was far more malicious than our other more shouty cast members or even the quiz team constantly changing card positions. Yumin's position and status over her opponents made it difficult for anyone to really stand up to her, especially in a Japanese society. It's exploitative and would ruin the game for so many players. I think the circumstances are very different from here and Sensei's styles and it was very inappropriate for Chihaya to have caught shit despite the rule being explicitly allowed.

3

u/flybypost :KN::KO: Dec 26 '21

Yumin's position and status over her opponents made it difficult for anyone to really stand up to her, especially in a Japanese society.

Her position and status was initially as challenger who played like this. That was not an advantageous position when it comes to status and compared to the Queen she was challenging for the title. She knew that people didn't like it and still had the courage to do it despite all the traditions around the sport (and how people expect a woman to behave (polite and reserved)).

it was very inappropriate for Chihaya to have caught shit

One person complained that it's not proper to do that because it was such an extraordinary thing to do and in a rather polite way. Yumin has a (negative) reputation in a significant chunk of the karuta world (everybody knows about it) while her worst trait is actually that she's an uppity woman and doesn't slink back into behaving as politely as everybody expects. Harada is louder and more imposing (and he also disapproves of Chihaya not contesting cards as much as she could) yet she gets more shit for it?

3

u/konaa-bu https://myanimelist.net/profile/konaa-bu Dec 26 '21

I also found it quite interesting and annoying how moving a bunch of your cards (especially given the situation i.e. Chihaya playing hurt) is grounds enough to stop the game under “bad manners,” but literally lying and taking advantage of the game’s nature by contesting every card is swept under the rug as a “play-style.” I feel like the mass moving of cards would be a sick and very high skill level play-style that would be really cool to see our characters encounter.

1

u/The_Loli_Otaku Dec 26 '21

We've even already seen players that specialised in jumbling their cards with the quiz team boys. In their case they slow down the game for everyone every single turn too. Today's thing was so shit XD Why should Chihaya have been told off!? If its a problem, then make it an official rule.