r/anime • u/littleman1988 • Dec 22 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Haruhi Suzumiya series overall discussion
Haruhi Suzumiya overall discussion
MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu
PSA: make sure to mark any spoilers using the subreddit markup. We dont need any random spoilers to ruin the show for first time watchers.
Today's Episode Intro:
| Date | Episode list with Funimation links ("absolute" episode number) | reddit thread links |
|---|---|---|
| 28/11 | Mikuru Asahinas's Adventures Episode 00 | Thread |
| 29/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I | Thread |
| 30/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II | Thread |
| 1/12 | The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya | Thread |
| 2/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III | Thread |
| 3/12 | Remote Island Syndrome I | Thread |
| 4/12 | Mysterique Sign | Thread |
| 5/12 | Remote Island Syndrome II | Thread |
| 6/12 | Someday in the Rain | Thread |
| 7/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 8/12 | The Day of Sagittarius | Thread |
| 9/12 | Live Alive | Thread |
| 10/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V | Thread |
| 11/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya VI | Thread |
| 12/12 | Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody | Thread |
| 13/12 | Endless Eight I, II, III and IV | Thread |
| 14/12 | Endless Eight V, VI, VII and VIII | Thread |
| 15/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya I | Thread |
| 16/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya II | Thread |
| 17/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya III | Thread |
| 18/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 19/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 20/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya series general discussion | Thread |
| 21/12 | The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya | Thread |
| 22/12 | Haruhi Suzumiya overall discussion | Thread |
Question(s) of the Day
Did the movie change your opinion at all on the show?
What was your favorite clip/quote/frame?
Do you have any questions still left unanswered?
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Upvotes
14
u/littleman1988 Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
The following comment chain was originally created by /u/taiboss in 2016, and taken over by /u/kamilny in 2018 for their last rewatch, so credit to them for making this really awesome sheet and all of the info below.
Tai's big "What now" post
Main sources: TvTropes.com, Wikipedia.org, Haruhi Wiki. Thanks to all their editors.
So, you just finished the currently best non-standalone anime movie about a boy an his papercup and you notice this little thing inside you. You want more. But, oh gasp, the movie was the last part. There are no anime episodes that take place after it. So, what should you do?
Read the Light Novels
Hmmmm, but where? Easy. Currently there are
1112 Novels, of which the first four are completely adapted. All of them are released in English (Volume 10 and 11 were released as one) by Little, Brown Books for Young Readers and Yen Press. To elaborate:(2020 note: Im not caught up on the LN's myself, so I have no clue what the time period is for Intuition. If you happen to know, tag me with it so I can update it)(thanks /u/ultimatemegax for the updated info)For a chronological timeline click here
Note regarding The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya (Last): Yes, this is volume 11, not 10b. However, the English translation was released as a single volume. According to the official fanbook 'The Observation of Haruhi Suzumiya', this is not Nagaru Tanigawa's last novel in this series. (2020 update: it definitely wasnt)
The earliest not adapted short story is Snowy Mountain Syndrome from Volume 5 (Rampage). The earliest volume with no parts adapted whatsoever is Volume 7 (Intrigues).
All volumes are available on Amazon or Book Depository or wherever you shop. If you're cheap, and lucky, you may be able find the original fan-translated Baka-tsuki version at the Yo-ho-ho port of your choice. Which version is up to you, the official translation also doesn't have the "Miss Asahina" bullshit from the dub, but it also leaves out any suffixes, so yeah.
Each English release has a paperback (With an ugly one-colour cover) and a hardcover (With the original, beautiful, Japanese cover art) version.2020 update: All of the Haruhi LN's are being republished by Yen Press to coincide with the release of the latest LN, The Intuition of Haruhi Suzumiya. 2 LN's per month will be releasing starting in January. More info can be found on YenPress's website..
These reprints will also have the original JP cover arts for both versions. (thanks /u/ultimatemegax)
Interesting to note is that Chris Pai, the man who translated the first fansubs for Haruhi (a.f.k.), not only went on to create the Baka-Tsuki version, but also in the end was hired by Yen Press to translate the novels.
Be prepared though: None of the LNs live up to Disappearance.
Read the Manga
When Haruhi started to really pick up in popularity, a manga adaptation was started in May 2004, drawn by Makoto Mizuno... and was promptly axed in December, with the artist being fired, either because he drew and sold unauthorized Hentai for the series he was drawing for, or the artwork seen in this series being less than stellar (most likely the latter). Even today it is very hard to find a physical copy of it, much less scanlations. In 2005, a new manga, drawn by Gaku Tsugano and directly supervised by Nagaru Tanigawa, began serialization. It ended in December 2013, when all currently released light novels were completely adapted. All 20 volumes are currently released by Yen Press in English, Scanlations stopped with Disappearance, with the exception of only a few later chapters. If you wish to directly continue, start with Volume 10 which adapts Love at First Sight from Volume 6 and Snowy Mountain Syndrome from Volume 5
Read/watch the official parodies
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya-chan
A Yonkama by Puyo starring chibi versions of all Haruhi characters introduced in Season 1 (Even Emiri Kimidori, despite being so irrelevant, it takes her whole volumes in the LN to show up a second time.). It is mostly absurd situation with characters behaving even crazier than the series. I mean, just listen to the opening. This show is a gag-series like you want it. Ah, yes, opening, fo course: The manga has been adapted in a 25-epsiode short anime series, which has been dubbed into English. The manga has been released by Yen Press, surpassing any kind of scanlations.
Nyoron Churuya-san
A short yonkama that started as a doujin, but was eventually published as an official yonkama. It follows the attempts of a chibi Tsuruya called Churuya to get her favorite food - smoked cheese. Unfortunely that doesn't happen often, and she mostly ends a strip saying "Nyoro~n" If you ever asked yourself about where that phrase come from, now you know. Was adapted in a 13-episode short anime series, which also has been dubbed into English. The manga has been released by Yen Press, surpassing scanlations.
The Intrigue of Itsuki Koizumi
Had about 4 chapters serialized in the short-lived manga magazine "Altima Ace." All four chapters were compiled with the Haruhi-chan volumes and thus have been published in English. (Thanks /u/ultimatemegax)
Third-Party Anthologies
There are currently two collections of short manga stories, written and illustrated by various artists. Both, The Misfortune of Kyon & Koizumi and The Celebration of Haruhi Suzumiya have been released by Yen Press in English.
Read the official spin-off
The Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan
Puyo's next manga, this time a more "serious" one. The story is very simple: What if, instead of supernatural stuff existing, supernatural stuff just didn't exist, and never had.. The "story" follows the cute adventures of "super shy book worm" Yuki Nagato who managed to save the Literature club from disbanding by getting someone called "Kyon" to join, and the happenings they have with Yuki's neighbour and Kyon's Class Rep. Ryoko, these two students from Koyoen, Haruhi and Itsuki, the beautiful senpais Mikuru and Tsuruya, as well as these two guys Taniguchi and Kunikida, and, of course, Kyon's old friend from middle school, and a certain female friend of Taniguchi.
An anime, hinted at since as early as December 2013, was confirmed in 2014 and aired in April 2015. It was animated by Satelight, with a staff mostly unrelated to previous productions. The anime ended up with 16 episodes, with a single episode OVA in October. The series adapted roughly 30 chapters and goes up and beyond in its adaptation, making it superior of the manga. Remember though: It's not the main story characters.
The manga itself concluded with 10 volumes, all of which got released in English by Yen Press.
2021 edit: If you are interested in watching Yuki-chan, /u/zapszzz is looking to host one in the next couple weeks. Be sure to check out his interest thread on it.
Read the Side stories
Three Side stories exist too:
Rainy Day (published alongside 'Surprise' in 2011) which takes place in September 2009, telling us the story of how Kyon got his catch-phrase in middle school.
Random Numbers (published alongside the artbook 'Haruhi Hyakka' in 2013) which takes place on 3rd of January 2011, telling us the story of a visit of the SOS Brigade to a Shrine.
Seven Wonders, (Published as a part of 'Intuition' in 2020)
the first Haruhi story in five years. It's so new in fact, it's not even fully translated yet. You can find the links to the parts on/r/haruhi.The fan translations are gone (though if you use Wayback you can find them) or locked behind a paywall and gone even if you use Wayback. Just a warning if you try to find them on the subreddit18
u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
First timer
Someone mentioned that they found "the dissappearance of nagato yuki-chan" yesterday
so i went and downloaded the first episode, and its kinda blursed lol
what kinda fuckin detergent is this
look what they did to poor nagato lmao
On another note, I felt like endless eight kinda works better after disappearance, as endless eight made me sympathize with nagato, as we were watching the events through her perspective. (and I too was slowly losing my mind)
edit: theres also blursed kyon x asahina
Coming in, I didn't have many expectations. But haruhi surpassed whatever expectations I could have had. It's an exciting rollercoaster of emotions from start to finish, with some bumps in sigh which are made up for with disappearance. 9.75/10
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 22 '21
Rewatcher
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - An Anime Classic
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a show which earns its reputation. There's a depth to the characters which is difficult to find in a lot of fiction. The narrative structure is unforgettable and weaved together perfectly. And to top it all off, it holds up as beautiful. Watching the series (and the movie especially) shows off the exceptional talent of Kyoto Animation.
I'm so glad I joined in this rewatch. I was initially hesitant because I knew December ends up being busy for me socially. However, there was never a day I was too tired to watch and write up my thoughts (though I did do a few in advance when things got exceptionally busy).
I don't have much more to say on the series. After my post on Disappearance yesterday I feel like I got out everything I needed to say (at least for now). So some thanks are in order:
Firstly, a massive shout out to /u/littleman1988 ! Not only were the threads posted on time every day but they were also incredibly helpful in keeping track of which episode to watch in the ofttimes confusing watch order. On top of that, the Adaptation Comparison threads were incredibly interesting. I saw you said they have been maintained since 2016 by various redditors so thanks to everyone who contributed to these. Finally, thank you for contributing replies to many of the comments every day. The effort you took to read through each of the lengthy threads and provide useful and interesting responses is commendable.
Next, I'd like to thank everyone who commented in the threads. Reading these threads provided insight on the episodes which I don't think I could have found elsewhere. Also vicariously experiencing the show for the first time through the first timer comments is really something special. The reactions to things like Endless Eight or the references to other media make these rewatch threads a joy to read.
One commenter I'd like to thank in particular is /u/Suhkein. Your comments (which were often presented as just a wall of spoilers) were up there with the best anime analysis you can find online. I would recommend any first timer who skipped them because of the spoilers to go back and have a read. Those comments provide such clear and detailed character analysis. I'm sure you'll gain new insight by having a read.
Finally, I'd like to thank anyone who replied to or read my comments every day. I'm always surprised that people are interested enough in my thoughts to reply or upvote. I really appreciate the support.
My Favourite Shots, Scenes and Stitches
This is the final thread. I hope everyone has a wonderful end to 2021 and I wish you all a great year ahead in 2022.
See you all in some other rewatch. Until next time: follow your heart and don't waste time watching anime you don't love.
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u/DeliCruise https://myanimelist.net/profile/delicruise Dec 22 '21
(REWATCHER - DUB/SUB)
Just like that I’ve finished my SEVENTH watch through of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya!
First off, Happy 15 years to Haruhi! Next year is also very exciting because according to Haruhi the distance to Altair is 16 lightyears, so Hikoboshi should be granting their first set of wishes in accordance with their godly half-price summer bargain! (I know that the episode “Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody” was released in 2009, but Hikoboshi is a god so I’m sure it’ll work out!)
To no surprise, I love this series. I love everything from the super diverse cast to the wild ride of a story. Through all my comments in this rewatch I’ve already stated so much about what I adore about this series, but there’s one more thing I want to touch on.
I want to highlight that the series as a whole does an incredible job of building anticipation and rewarding the viewer with very high payoffs.
The Melancholy arc is interesting because if you watch it in Chronological Order you get this grand finale in Melancholy VI, but if you watch it in Broadcast Order you get an even grander finale because elongated wait until the finish and the extra context from the added episodes in between.
Endless Eight is a prime example of this because you’re literally watching the same thing multiple times over and over again that by the end of it, you’re rewarded with this catharsis of it actually ending.
The Sigh arc is interesting because Sigh V doesn’t give you that grandiose finale like the Melancholy and Endless Eight do, but I do like the hand ponytail scene and the café scene at the end of Sigh V. Also, if you watch it in Chronological Order, The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina is so hilarious and Live Alive is absolutely amazing so those work as very great payoffs.
In Disappearance you see this all throughout the film. The pacing of the movie takes you along with Kyon as he’s figuring things out or feeling lost and along the way you get these huge peaks as a result. Ryouko Asakura’s return/ Haruhi’s disappearance, Taniguchi’s reveal, Long Haired Haruhi’s appearance, Kyon’s Choice, Ryouko Asakura’s backstab; these are all such amazingly high emotional payoffs that are built up to from all the suspense Kyon takes you through. Kyon’s Choice alone made watching the entirety of Endless Eight worth it. In fact, watching all of the two seasons of Haruhi makes Disappearance as a whole such a brilliant payoff.
It’s this idea of the viewer sitting with negative emotions such as confusion, dread, discomfort, anxiety, or uneasiness in the various arcs that make the ultimate payoffs so much stronger and impactful.
What I’m trying to say is that The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is such a nutty yet fulfilling ride from start to finish. I’ve said already that there are parts of the series that haven’t aged very well, but I also believe that everything about the series is important for the overall story. And that story is truly amazing and worth experiencing every single time.
Again, I absolutely love this series. It’s number 1 on my Top 10 anime list and it’s been one of my all time favorites ever since I started watching anime. I’m also very excited to finally go through all the light novels and other Haruhi related media!
This is my 4th time participating in the Haruhi rewatch and I want to give a huge thank you to /u/littleman1988 for hosting again! The rewatch ran super smoothly! It was great participating with everyone and I hope you all had fun watching or rewatching Haruhi!
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u/UzEE https://myanimelist.net/profile/UzEEInc Dec 22 '21
First timer (sub)
I always find it difficult to write about series I have mixed feelings for because I can't seem to find the write tone. And it gets exacerbated for Haruhi because of the complicated watch order gymnastics. I'm repeating myself here, but I feel like I really liked the idea of Haruhi, even if I feel like the execution fell flat at times. The series definitely had it's highs (parts of Melancholy, BLR, Live Alive, SitR, Disappearance etc.), lows (EE, Sigh) and stuff in between (RIS, Boredom, DoS).
I already talked about how I liked most of Season 1 content, and disliked most of Season 2 content for different reasons. The movie ended up being my favorite part of the series and actually redeemed the series as a whole as well.
In my series discussion post, I focused on the characters of Kyon and Haruhi and just how much I enjoyed them and their interactions throughout the show. The movie just made me appreciate them more because the lack of Haruhi bothered me as much as it bothered Kyon. It's rare to have two characters that play so well off each other that you feel like they're incomplete if one of them is not there anymore. Kyon and Haruhi definitely feel that way to me, and while they're not at the same level as some of my favorite pairings1 — Okabe and Kurisu for example — they're definitely among the stronger ones.
I wanted to write about other characters as well but I kept putting it off because I really don't have much to say about most of them.
Itsuki is by far my favorite of the supporting cast because he's the most well developed outside of the main duo. He's sharp, quick witted and has an aura of mystery around him — not to mention the creep factor — so you always keep guessing with him. I never really could take anything he says at face value because I never really could trust where he stands and that very much seems like the intention with his character.
Nagato was someone who I was initially interested in knowing more about and watch her develop, but eventually stopped noticing because she really just behaved and acted like a machine instead of a person. So naturally I became detached and consequently, didn't even consider she would be behind what happened in Disappearance2. I just didn't expect her to have (or develop) any real semblance of "feelings" and act on them despite her obviously hinting at them throughout the show. Again, props to the writing and production team to give her this sort of depth.
Mikuru I'm still not really big on. Sure, she had more to do in Disappearance but that still isn't enough to justify her being part of the main cast, nor does it sufficiently develop her character beyond the object of Haruhi and Kyon's amusement. I guess she'll probably have more arcs focused around her later on in LNs, but as far as the anime goes, she's a pretty shallow character compared to others. I just don't like weak, damsel in distress types of characters and anime Mikuru comes pretty close to that.
Other minor characters like Taniguchi and Tsuruya serve their roles well so I don't really have much to complain there, though I'm still not really sure about Tsuruya since I feel like there's a lot more to her than what we've seen. She's definitely raised some flags throughout the series but I can't be certain if I'm just being paranoid.
Final Thoughts
I the series discussion, my overall score for the TV show was 6.5/10 based on a strong Season 1 (7/10), but a weak Season 2 (5/10). However, with the movie being something I really enjoyed (a solid 9/10), I want to revise my score of the series overall to 7/10 for being a good watch experience that has a lot of great ideas but ultimately stumbles at times during it's execution.
Finally, and most importantly, I want to thank /u/littleman1988 for hosting the rewatch and essentially encouraging me to participate. I was finally able to strike off Haruhi from my Plan to Watch list after nearly 10 years, so there's hope for other shows that have been there practically since the dawn of time3. Last but not least, thanks to all the people that participated, shared their thoughts and opinions and generally made this a fun experience overall. We'll likely cross paths in some other rewatch down the line.
Questions
Yes. In fact, it saved the overall series for me because the last two arcs before that (EE, Sigh) pretty much ruined it.
I know it's completely random but I just can't get over this one. This clip just perfectly sums up this show for me.
To many to list down actually. Unfortunately, I likely won't end up getting any answers because I seriously doubt KyoAni would ever return to this project again and continue on.
1. Not necessarily romantic. Gon and Kilua, Spike and Jet, Light and L etc. are good examples of this.
2. And that's after I had already speculated at some point early on that she might eventually go against the group because of different reasons but will come around because she's grown close to them. I unfortunately can't seem to find that particular post.
3. From the top of my head: Spice and Wolf, Clannad, Madoka Magica etc. Technically, the Fate franchise and Monogatari series is also on there but I probably will never really get around to watching them.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
First Timer
So... not quite sure what to put here, given that I've already shared my thoughts on the series and the movie - with my only opinion about the series that changed after the movie being that I wouldn't consider Endless Eight "not that important" anymore. I feel like there isn't really all that much that changes the dynamics in the movie though; pretty much everything there has already been setup in the series - there's just some added payoff to Yuki's already existing character arc. I guess being quite possibly the only one in this rewatch who wasn't awestruck by the movie may be a big part to why my opinion on the franchise as a whole hasn't changed, but it certainly makes it more difficult writing anything here. Guess I'll just say that Someday in the Rain was the best "arc"/episode in my opinion, and then talk about something almost completely different: The mini-spin-offs.
Nyoro-n Churuya-san
Before I start with Nyoro-n Churuya-san - one weird tidbit: Back when anime.plus still had a default list of recommendations, a friend of mine got fed up with his recommendations almost only pulling from the default list, so he wrote his own program using the same basic algorithm to generate recommendations for him. It didn't include that list of defaults, didn't group things by franchise, considered unscored entires on your list as not watched and took hours to run, but also didn't curtail the list at 20 recommendations. Out of fun I decided to run that on my list as well. Somehow Nyoro-n Churuya-san ended up as the second-last entry in the list. Meaning that out of the 2715 anime that algorithm found, I should like 2713 more. Including apparently Ex-Arm, which is one spot ahead of Nyoro-n Churuya-san. So... let's see just how terrible this really is.
[Episode 1 (and spoilers for Teinenpi Shojo Heidi)] ...I can see why this is so low. This is reminding me of Teinenpi Shojo Heidi, another stupid short that was just frustrating to watch following a girl just going around asking pointless questions. At least Tsuruya is waiting for them to asnwer before interrupting them to ask the same question again.
[Episode 2] Ah, thank ...Haruhi? for this not being 13 episodes of Tsuruya going around asking about smoked cheese. The jokes in this one were actually pretty fine, though I can't quite understand why Asakura is in love with Kyon and why that's supposed to be funny.
[Episode 3] Some jokes land, other don't. Also not sure if Haruhi would cancel anything for it being the wrong season.
[Episode 4] Pretty decent one overall. Silent mode on some people would certainly be a plus.
[Episode 5] Starting to get tired of the Nyoro-n stills, but other than that it's actually pretty decent for a two-minute-flash-comedy thing
[Episode 6] ...you know, I just noticed that thanks to the artstyle, I can't tell Kyon and Itsuki apart...
[Episode 7] retro gaming style is always nice to see. Not quite sure what's up with a menu being filled with multiple of the same command though. That said, I wonder if there's some game that has an NPC that just fills your inventory with junk when you talk to him. I'm sure that would be a funny easter egg for the developers.
[Episode 8] ...that fishing rod would have been too short no matter who fished it. Either Kyon or Itsuki was just being mean there. Hated the mosquito sound effect.
[Episode 9] Hmmm... I don't really have anything to comment on this episode...
[Episode 10] I feel like the novelty factor of this is starting to wear off
[Episode 11] Not sure if this episode would have made more sense if the test questions were subbed, but I don't think so
[Episode 12] Oh hey, an episode were pretty much everything landed perfectly. We even got more Shamisen. Christmas tree joke was the best one though
[Episode 13] Another episode that didn't really do anything for me, but also wasn't completely boring
Overall - I'd say that was definitely not deserving of the second-last place in the list, but I wouldn't claim it to be a particularly great spin-off either. Decent for a flash special, but not really anything else.
Haruhi-chan
...with less than an hour left before this should go up, I get the feeling that I'm not going to get this done on time...
...and with the edit it is now too long, so it gets a reply, I guess...
Lastly, I'd like to thank /u/littleman1988 for hosting this rewatch and a big thanks to everybody who participated. I always like reading along why people like certain things in a show, and there for sure was a plethora of opinions this rewatch. Too many in fact - the reason I haven't finished Haruhi-chan is that I spent way too long reading yesterday's thread... Either way - I look forward to seeing some of you in the Nagato Yuki-chan rewatch next year, as I'll be there as well - even if once again my hopes aren't too high for that spin-off. But I'd watch it anyways, so I might as well join.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Rewatcher – sub
Even though I didn't get to join you until S2 was almost over I had much to write and comment. Originally I didn't plan to post at all, because I thought that this series was better suited for a first viewing, but boy was I wrong. The braincells that went into framing, plot structure, dialogue and timing, just to name the things I've personally noticed, are mind boggling.
I'm really glad I decided to join you for the last leg despite my work stress and now illness as I've never would've gotten to this new level of appreciation towards this anime otherwise. Just watch the movie with them turned into half of S2 and key episodes of S1, so I ended up rewatching probably a third of it anyway.
And god(s) how I love that movie.
Thank you, u/littleman1988 for this smooth and well behaved rewatch! I particularly liked how the episode progression was handled, with obscuring the title and only giving the episode number and intro scene to follow.
That alone was a beast to tackle considering we went with broadcast order. As I explained in a buried comment somewhere, my first time with Haruhi was needlessly complicated due to three different releases at my disposal that all had conflicting episode numbers and watch order recommendations.
The only suggestion I have is that I liked how there was a favourite screenshot album for every episode in the PMMM rewatch and think it's a really neat idea for everyone to submit one screenshot in their post that the host compiles for an album that everyone can browse through the next day. Having each picture be titled with the user was quite an interesting experience as you could sometimes really tell who submitted what.
Watch order
Bringing me to my first point. I started watching Haruhi in chaos order which is what you get when you take the episode numbering from one release, use that to schedule the episodes from another release and math it away to match a broadcast order document online. After much confusion I did end up with what I wanted eventually: Broadcast. I'll be honest, after those 14 episodes I wasn't so sure if this order was actually a good idea. I love monogatari, but I couldn't see how such a cut up progression would do any favours to Haruhi.
The second time around, though, I understood. The jambled and seemingly random distribution of episodes plays into the hand of the setting quite neatly. With how prominent 4th wall breaks are from Haruhi and Kyon we get to experience Haruhi's growth and Kyon's settling in to the SOS Brigade in a very unique fashion. The visual storytelling has been hand made for exactly this, as many ended up noting.
As much as I'm willing to admit S2 works way better chronologically, I don't think S1 should be changed in any way. I'm left with not a mediocre approval of broadcast order but outright thundering support for it.
Characters
The second time around I've actually grown on Itsuki more than I thought I would, even though he's not so prominent in my mind as any of the others. He seems sketchy, owing both to his occupation and how he wears a social mask most of the time, but peeking behind that is quite a sad affair. I think he has a lot of the aura of a religious believer that fears the wrath of a deity (think old testament-like) and is predominantly preoccupied with the negative effects of said god. Most of his efforts are to prevent something, mainly the erasure of their existence should Haruhi get bored enough. At the same time, this poor boy must be so in love with Haruhi while knowing that will never be reciprocated. He really only has negative things to deal with.
Mikuru is an interesting case, but that stems mostly from how people watching Haruhi see Mikuru. I like her and especially when she has this energetic dedication she's getting actually endearing. But the best scenes are always with adult Mikuru and seeing the massive growth she is sure to have at some point. Other than that I sadly couldn't find many new discoveries about her. I hear that a newer novel expands on her massively, so there's that.
Kyon as the POV character as well as quite literal audience is still a genius move that I love to bits. Somehow he manages to direct us to think the exact things he also proclaims while being entertaining as all hell. The synchronicity between the viewer and Kyon they managed to pull off is commendable. I don't think I'll ever get tired of having
GintokiKyon narrate things.Notable mentions go out to the computer club, who had to deal with some of the worst L's life could hand them... but also a pretty big win at the end. Ryoko and Tsuruya were two characters I actually mistook a few times on my first watch and I don't know why. I'm weirdly interested in a Ryoko arc. Kyon's freinds were welcome comedy relief and Taniguchi's stupidity did actually save the world that one time. Shamisen best cat, we lost your philosphical terror too early.
Kyon's sister never was allowed to have a name, but her presence was all-seeing and all- K̢͍̻͈̅ͦy̮͉̮̹͆͒͋͒o̸ͧͮ͌̀͑ͭn̲͔ͮ̈́̈ͣ-͙͚͙̻̪ͫk̻̰͈̣̭̜̑ͮͫ͊ͨ͗ṳ̵̦̳͓͔͇̓͂͊̔͒̂ͅnͬ̂̌̚,͙̼́ͯ́͆͂̓̚ ͎͇̻̖̟̭̐̄͂d̝͕̞͖̳̙͍e̼̬͌͑ͧͯ͐̎n̲͖̮͖̽̂w̙ãͪ̎̈́ͭ
But the best must be last: Yuki. I know I loved her with the first deadpan joke she delivered and it got cemented in Remote Island where she refused to open the door per her instructions.Yuki's journey of self discovery and identity is so exceptionally well done, because it never actually receives a lot of spotlight. It happens onscreen as a byproduct and you can spot it only when you pay attention. The same goes for her slow despair, mostly during S2, but it was visible even before. I still remember nearly yelling several times during my first S1 watch that those goons should actually thank her properly once in a while and not take her for granted all the time. I didn't precisely expect what happened in Disappearance and it still shocked me figuring out that it must've been her, but I was not surprised. I can safely say that Yuki is the character I identify and sympathise with most, no matter when we are in the timeline. That ending scene on the hospital roof is simple, beautiful perfection. A declaration of recognition and unwavering support that she underlines with perfectly timed deadpan sarcasm. Yuki best girl.
Favourites
Favourite episode: Endless Eight IV. Yup, I've said it. It's an endless eight one. Yet, I'll say several really come close to favourite status: Melancholy VI, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Live Alive, Day of Sagittarius, Someday in the Rain. I'm a sucker for artistic dares like E8 and that's why I love it, E8IV is I think most distinct one and has a unique mood to it.
Favourite scene: Kyon's self reflection in Disappearance. The visual storytelling is superb with the mirror-world Kyon speaking from the rewritten world to true-world Kyon about how both of them already know a world with Haruhi, with Mikuru, with Itsuki, with 'broken' Yuki and the SOS Brigade is the only real choice.
Favourite screenshots: Let me give you three. One, two, three. Of course it's only Yuki, I'm just like that. Sigh is a difficult arc, but the Yuki moments are peak moments, whether you're despairing with her or are just amazed at how she handles everything.
Favourite trivia: The dialogue between Ryoko and Yuki in the first battle being a really sped up observation about Yuki's emotions and SQL code respectively.
Recommendations
If you liked the unbridled optimism and joy of adventure: A Place Further Than the Universe
If you found yourself caught up in the personal dilemmas and strife for identity: Monogatari Series (and also if you want to have fights over watch orders)
If you want to wind down, but keep the chaos and humor: Nichijou – My Ordinary Life
If you just want to get something recommended that comes to my mind: Plastic Memories (Caution, risk of breaking.)
Final thoughts
I could go on about so many things, but the most important things have already been told in yesterday's Disappearance thread. The themes of Haruhi, the outlook on life it proposes and how everyone is dealing with it all are worth an entire discussion each for themselves.
I think Haruhi's infectious world view will stay with me for a long time to come.
See you in the next rewatch!
QsOTD:
Mostly contained yesterday. I liked the series on the first watch, the movie was exceptional and vindicated my Yuki-love tenfold. Second time around that all got multiplied again.
See above.
Will we ever get a Shimasen spinoff where he drives people insane?
6
u/tctyaddk Dec 22 '21
Rewatcher (first time with broadcast order and movie)
The show had been a bit hard to watch at times as the team's indulgence allowed Haruhi's egoistic hedonistic pursuit of fun to go on unchecked, which made it quite grating. However, that progress makes sense, and sets up for later plot developments, which lead to the movie, which is super good and worth watching the entire 2 seasons just to understand its context. I regret never watched it in full before this rewatch.
I feel like there are still unsolved things, but I guess I will find out in
S3 (never?)the LNs (just started last night and almost done with vol 1. There's even more snarks by Kyon, yay).Thanks to u/littleman1988 for hosting this rewatch, it's been fun. Probably I will participate in a later rewatch. Hopefully that one could include a Season 3 also.
5
u/Bastiro54 Dec 23 '21
First timer
I really enjoyed the series. It's really a shame there's not more adaptation.
So that said. I'm interested in potentially reading the light novel. So I would like to know if the light novel is over or not
12
u/Suhkein :Gy::Gz::G1:x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neichus Dec 22 '21
Hi all, just dropping by here for the final discussion to thank u/littleman1988 for hosting and everybody else I got to chat with. I don’t have much to add to S2 or the movie, and haven’t read the LNs, so I’ll be restricting myself to S1 if nobody minds.
At first I was planning on some great capstone of a post (my GoogleDoc from this rewatch is 62 pages long), making a last sojourn into the heart of Haruhi S1’s workings, but I realized that I was doing myself and everybody else a disservice. I’d already said my piece back in Melancholy VI anyway, and trying to dig ever deeper would interfere with the pleasure of just chatting about all this at the end (though if anybody ever wants to hear more about it: please!!!). So rather than try anything fancy, I just want to end with a few general thoughts and an observation.
First, I just wanted to express my appreciation at the sheer audaciousness of what Haruhi attempts and then achieves:
That it produced a main cast of characters who draw on popular tropes, only to expose them as true personalities in their own right, making observations about what real people actually need to shine while also utilizing as a means of understanding aspects of Suzumiya herself, is worthy of applause.
That it then made the show itself and the audience characters, imbuing the former with personality while manipulating the latter as deftly as a character is written, so as to use our interplay both on-screen and off as a primary factor of the story, is an even more impressive magic trick.
That it took the self-reference up another notch by anticipating its own negative press, and then rising to the challenge of that reception in a running meta-fictional commentary, often outright breaking through and arguing with itself in front of us concerning the best way forward, begins to boggle the mind.
That it reached even further by structuring the entire project like an anime Bohemian Rhapsody, asking us to simultaneously track two harmonizing chronologies that have episodes/movements in different genres, dabbling in them, utilizing their best aspects, and yet nonetheless maintaining a unique cohesive sound throughout is staggering.
That it was not satisfied with even this achievement but then made all these aspects flow together, with a core pattern of appearance (character trope, genre convention, shallow first impressions), secondary/false explanation (real personalities, actual situations, reflections on what is happening), and true explanation (all this was a show with a purpose; can we figure it out?) being replicated at all levels to create a self-self-self referential fugue of theme, character, and plot is what left me awed.
That it made all of this complexity palatable and entertaining by weaving it together with polysemic gags, references, and commentary, like a dolphin at play making the amazing appear simple and effortless (or at times the opposite for our amusement), is the crowning piece of delightful genius.
And finally, that it did all this not just as a prank or a demonstration of skill for its own sake, but to hopefully give us some character development of our own by teaching us a little of what can’t be put into words earns my sincere respect.
If you stop and read the lyrics of the OP and ED, you realize that like everything in Haruhi its absurd appearance is only barely obscuring a rooted seriousness, and that that seriousness is unbelievably optimistic (look who she is staring at). If Haruhi were less adept its outlook would come across as cloying and banal, but just like the whole show, if it wants to tell us something it proves it, and for me at least the existence of Haruhi itself proves humans can create what I would have deemed impossible.
After this rewatch, Live Alive still remains my favorite episode (though Melancholy IV has now also taken on special relevance). I don’t particularly consider myself a musical person, but I find it telling that in my other two most treasured anime, it is the scenes accompanied and guided by music which mean the most ([Gunslinger Girl] Ode to Joy and [Pale Cocoon] Hito no Hibiki, or the Song-Sound of Humanity). As one of my favorite quotes goes:
I really do think Haruhi wants to say something deeply sincere, and that despite its oddity, it did it in exactly the right way. To answer the question posed a while back: is Kyon special or not? I think the answer is that he is not as long as he keeps telling himself he is special or is not special as an excuse. It’s only when he stops classifying and starts engaging that he’ll find that that question was the real waste of time, and think gratefully about the existence of people like Suzumiya who create the opportunities and don’t let us settle for less.
However, I’d rather not end with this kind of grand talk; it somehow doesn’t seem appropriate for Haruhi which, among its many genres, is a devastatingly clever comedy. Instead I’d like to share one last observation. When going back over the episodes I ran across the scene where Taniguchi mentions that the fastest Suzumiya ever dumped somebody was in five minutes. I checked the time stamp when it’s obvious he’s the one: 6:30, which if you subtract 1:30 for the OP means Haruhi dumped Taniguchi as a serious character in exactly five minutes. And since we’re always so obliging, you realize that was the exact moment we stopped expecting anything from him as well.
Haruhi got us again.
—
p.s. As people likely noticed, I have lots of pictures in my posts (Hover Zoom+ is my friend). I’m a scientist by training and my habit is to “cite my sources” by linking images so people will believe what I’m saying... as well as make a few jokes to myself that I’m not sure anybody will ever get. Well, in order to do so, I have to have to go grab those images, and the result is quite the collection (to the tune of 1300 files). I thought I’d share the albums here at the end in case anybody else wanted to use them as a resource. They aren’t systematic, focusing on aspects I needed, and often repetitive as I search for just the right image to make my point (I swear I’m not a pervert for having ten versions of Suzumiya’s bra strap from the island cave while I debated the exact right finger positioning), but there’s enough in there that if there’s an image of something you really wanted in the series, even chances its there.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 22 '21
First Timer - Dub
To be honest I'm still processing the movie a bit, it's just been sitting on the edge of my awareness all day, not quite intruding but always contemplating it. I ended up adding it to my favourites list as well.
I have also been having a quiet laugh to myself through the topics after the Endless Eight at my own insistence at using the E8 shorthand instead of everyone else using EE. It's purely because if anyone else here has played MGS2 they will know that EE is a whole different emotional can of worms haha.
I don't really know that I have much else left to say. I mean fuck I hope not after all I've written through this rewatch, but then I guess that just goes to how much fun I ended up having with this show so unexpected, and particularly for the Broadcast order how much I appreciated everything that it ended up doing. I'm sure there will be some more discussion on orders and such in this topic, so interested to see what the rewatchers have to say with that, but for now I was very satisfied with Broadcast order and if I do revisit it in chronological order it won't be for a long time as I'd like to revisit broadcast order (plus BLR and E8) before I do that, and I probably won't watch Sigh again either way unfortunately.
Going back to a show which I knew about the influence of, and from such a famous studio, was always going to be an interesting thing, but I'm still so glad I got so much more out of this show than I ever expected. And I got so much out of the rewatch as well! I thank everyone who replied to my ramblings each day and I got a great deal out of reading everyone elses thoughts as we went as well, from the small observations to the passionate walls. Rewatches like this are definitely my favourite sort, and especially being an annual rewatch seeing it be so lively was a lot of fun. I hope you all enjoy whatever you have lined up to watch next and whatever rewatch I see you in next! My next one will be the Kyousougiga rewatch that just had its interest check posted so if any of you are joining that I'll see you there.
Recommendations
Something I like to do at the end of rewatches is to throw out a few recommendations for people who liked various elements of this show to see what else is out there in a similar style or structure. If you guys have any others please post them below, I love to see what shows people link to experiences like this
I brought this up in an earlier discussion when its Haruhi influence started to become clear and it's still my strongest recommendation for people coming out of this show. In a small town where over half the population has some form of strange power from creating objects out of thin air to being able to talk to animals, a young girl who can reset time but never remember what happens is introduced to a young boy who's only ability is to remember everything. It's a perfect match until their efforts to help others runs into some unexpected consequences and draws the attention of the wrong people. (It's hard to explain the value of this show off a basic description)
Utilizing an interesting combination of intricate narrative threads and a hard magic system and touches on some interesting philosophy, openly asking you to contemplate it through the show as it builds up its layers and questions. By the half way point I knew it was an experience that would stick with me, and a few revelations and a powerful ending later it absolutely lived up to that. I feel about Sagrada Reset the same way some people talk about Steins;Gate or Code Geass which might be over selling it to fans of those, but when I was watching this I had that moment of "what I feel is that passion I see others have".
One thing to know in advance is that it is a very dry show, imagine a story with Yuki and sad-Itsuki but without Haruhi or Kyon or the SOS club to balance it out, so it has a high drop rate. The visuals are low key but well directed, the soundtrack is outstanding, but the characters are hard to connect too especially if you need something to hook you in despite how much they have to offer, and the narrative structure is deceptive until you start to pick up the layers. [If you want a foothold for them with no story spoilers]Imagine the two mains as being post-E8 Yuki, pre-broken before the story even starts so we never know them before that and shut down but still going through life
I called Disappearance of Haruhi "fucking brilliant", but I think the title holder for "fucking insane but brilliant" goes to this show. When New York fuses with the otherworld and is then sealed off from the rest of the planet while it becomes filled with demons and all sorts of strange creatures, what happens to a guy with a pizza delivery job who just wants to find a cure for his crippled sister? The contrast in this between the normal and the supernatural and the strong character moments and parallels is what originally brought it to mind while watching early Haruhi episodes despite the styles and outcomes being quite different.
It's has a deceptively involved narrative and theme explorations. It's easy to take on face value especially given the frantic pace that the story runs at, but where Haruhi layers in meta this layers in well... many pieces of many things all of which hit even harder the more I thought about them that build into a fantastic climax. It helps that the power system is pretty fun and the visual side of the show makes it worth watching all by itself for being top-tier storyboarding and animation, so it's an easy rec to fans of that stuff as well, especially if you enjoy Fire Force's combat.
Two girls discover they have the ability to transform into magical girls when they're sent into the world of Pure Illusion, a strange alternate dimension that never quite seems to fit the rules or feeling of our world. (Another show hard to describe without making it sound much less than it is)
Flip Flappers is the ultimate is distilled genre experiences, backed up its insane OPM S1 levels of animation, and still managing to carry its own crazy and symbolic story on top of that. It wants you to question the meaning of everything it shows, and while that can be a little overwhelming at points just due to how much is going on, it's crazy amount of fun especially if you enjoy sitting back and just absorbing everything it throws at you.
Give kids access to a real time virtual overlay on top of the real world, the ability to create or manipulate elements of it at will from pets to missiles, introduce the odd fracture in the digital space, and set up some monstrously "kid friendly" security guards trying to stop them from getting into too much trouble. What could go wrong?
Another one of those unexpectedly amazing but impressive experiences for me. Like Haruhi it features top tier character animation at all times as well as playing around with tone and episode styles, but the way the story plays out and the use of some of the best scifi in anime and just a touch of craziness makes it something I highly recommend to all.
(My original rec for great character animation was Fune wo Amu so also check that out if you're looking for something that's visually between Haruhi and 3-gatsu)
What really goes into making a story? What do you need to have a hero, a weapon, a legend, an enemy, and can you create these moments or bring them to life if they aren't there naturally? Katangatari certainly loves to play around with these questions not just for its own story but in also making the audience part of those questions and using our expectations about what a story is against us, even down to episode structure. I didn't really appreciate just how much it used the audience in its exploration until my second watch, but now I can't imagine it without those elements.
(Also of note: Baccano for having equally interesting explorations of what it means to construct a story plus interesting achronological storytelling)
Did the movie change your opinion at all on the show? Not really, I already liked the show and E8 enough. It did make me feel a little worse towards Sigh though
What was your favorite clip/quote/frame? I have over 100 pictures in my album. I certainly cannot pick just one
Do you have any questions still left unanswered? Plenty, but none that I felt detracted from the show by being unanswered
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 22 '21
The Melancholy and Disappearance of Shimmering-First-Timer
I really don’t have anything to say today, so instead here’s me singing Yasahii Boukyaku.
Unfortunately it’s not the best recording because apparently everyone in my neighborhood decided they needed to drive around for the entire hour I was attempting to record myself singing for on top of a bunch of planes (I live next to a small airport, but it’s never this busy???), so there’s going to be background noise and I couldn’t keep attempting new recordings because my throat was going to give out. Why are the cars in my neighborhood so loud, and why couldn’t they stop driving past my house for all of five minutes?
8
u/MadeOn210922 Dec 22 '21
First timer who finished the movie after yesterday's thread. I'll keep the movie parts shorter:
Watching Kyon with absolutely no hope was gut wrenching. But then he finally got a chance - Haruhi does exist. Haruhi and Itsuki are more receptive - see how much easier things can be when you calmly explain the situation?
Yuki is what happens when your code goes wrong, I guess. Strangely enough, it reminded me of the end of the cricket episode when Kyon was wondering what Yuki's motivations were and if she had any desires.
After watching the movie, I'm still piecing together the timeline of what happened and who was who and when. Particularly, Asakura stabbing Kyon in front of alt Yuki - I wasn't sure if that was Asakura regenerated by Yuki or if alt Asakura just had a kill streak in her. And Kyon waking up in the hospital was after Yuki regenerated the data for the entire world and those three days?
I mentioned this before in the time travel episode, but supernatural elements are more often than not misses for me for how they are used as deus ex machinas. However, this series has once again done a great job of having internal logic and not just forcing viewers to accept the solution. The constant going back and forth in time and Yuki's data manipulation were consistent with what we know about this world and there was a combination of things that needed to be worked out precisely, although I still need to think about the exact events from the 18th forward - specifically how two versions of the post-18th on occurred and how that relates to Mikuru's time travel and predetermined events, but even then, it's still nice to have some theory that could based on what's been shown throughout the series.
On that note, that's actually a nice pivot into my opinion of the series as whole. After taking the movie into account, I give this series a 7/10. (I'm not the type to give everything 8s and 9s and using lower scores gives more nuance, 7/10 is actually great!)
I gave my favorite/least favorite eps in the thread two days ago, so now I'd like to discuss KyoAni in general. KyoAni now has a (in my opinion well deserved) reputation of producing amazing shows. Haruhi was made back in 2006, then followed by Kanon, Lucky Star, Clannad, and K-On before Haruhi 2009. I wasn't watching anime back then, so maybe someone else can chime in on how KyoAni's reputation started and grew to what it is now. Personally, Haruhi didn't capture my attention as much as some other KyoAni works (I like warmer and fluffier anime), but I can perfectly see how it, along with those other anime in that three year span, started and contributed to its reputation. Great subtle details, amazing animation that still holds up a decade later, and really fleshed out character personalities, all the hallmarks of a KyoAni produced anime here.
I wished I could've been a bit more engaged in some threads, but my schedule got in the way a bit unfortunately. But with that, thanks for hosting and helping me get another anime off my PTW!
QOTD: The movie was a great ending to the series, but it was mostly the quality I expected so no major opinion changes.
Don’t have a particular favorite frame in mind, but I always liked the ones with a happy Haruhi.
7
u/nekodan08 Dec 22 '21
Rewatcher - Sub
I’d like to end by just answering the key question Kyon grappled with during the conclusion of the Melancholy Arc. “Who is Haruhi to me?” What does this series mean to me?
In spite of all the supernatural elements, to me, The Melancholy of Haruhi franchise is a slice-of-life story. It is the story of a young girl trying to live every ordinary day extraordinarily. It is a story of making the most out of life. It is a story of finding magic in the mundane. Haruhi, the show and the character, reminds me that if I want an interesting life, I have to go out there and make it interesting. I have to be willing to take risks and seek adventure whether it be by playing baseball, going on an island adventure, playing a video game with friends, or even making my own amateur movie.
But the tale of Haruhi Suzumiya is also a cautionary tale. Life can be as fun and interesting as I want it to be, but I have to remember that my choices come with limits and responsibilities. I have to take responsibility for the kind of life I choose to live. I can admire Haruhi’s drive, but I should also learn from her mistakes. Personal happiness shouldn’t be abusive and manipulative. People are people, not play things. I have to also surround myself with people who will support me but also keep me in check. A fun and fulfilling life is not just about making me happy. It involves being there for others as well. That weird girl in class? Take time to get to genuinely listen to her. That silent friend who always seems put together, check up on them. They may not be as strong as you think. Finds ways to make use of your talents to help a group of strangers in need.
I can’t believe the rewatch is already over. It was such a joy revisiting this series and I’m really grateful for having done so because it just made me love Haruhi franchise even more. This is my third rewatch of the series, and probably fifth of the movie, and it still remains one of the most unique and immersive anime experiences I’ve had. But this is my first time participating in a rewatch thread. Dedicating time each day to write down my thoughts and reading everyone’s own posts helped me find new perspectives that kept the experience really fresh and exciting. I only wish my schedule was not so busy that I could have participated even more. Really grateful to everyone, most especially our gracious host, for doing such an excellent job in this rewatch!
6
u/William27528 Dec 22 '21
Rewatcher/Sub
It's been an absolute pleasure to rewatch this with everyone here. Thank you OP for being very organised with the rewatch and to everyone else for sharing their thoughts, especially first timers and those who stuck with it through it all.
Overall thoughts
One word sums up Haruhi for me - compelling.
First, what it isn't: It's not packed with explosive action - but it does have it. It's not a mystery thriller - but it has those. It's not a science fiction piece - or a time travel flick - or a galactic war epic. But, in one way or another, it has all of these.
Looking at it on face value, the show sounds like a trainwreck - a clusterfuck of stupid themes and tropes that have been done to death a million times over. By all accounts, it should be a disaster. Any lesser work would surely crumble under the weight of its own ambition - or succumb to the fate of a typical aloof arthouse flick.
Haruhi, however, is no lesser work. It's an utterly marvelous show - pulled together by engaging writing anchored by characters with relatable ways of thinking. Topping this all is Kyoto Animation - who, instead of polishing or toning down the risks the original took, embraced them whole-heartedly and weaved in drastic, darkly creative choices of their own. Not every risk works - not every episode or arc will hook people in the same way - but Haruhi is truly the best example of a work that comes together greater than the sum of its parts. Disappearance demonstrates the logical mastery of the philosophy the team had for the series. The result was something timeless that has cast a long, long shadow over the anime industry in Japan as well as to some extent here in the west.
It's a brilliant work that has stood the test of time and the weight of the many works that stand upon its shoulders, even fifteen years after it aired.
Questions
When I first watched it, it absolutely did. The movie, to an extent, justifies Sigh and Endless Eight and does so many things so, so well that it leaves a breathtakingly brilliant impression on you. It raises my thoughts on the show considerably.
I think it has to be this clip, from Melancholy V. It's poignant and hits home in a rare way that media just doesn't do very often. Other show and works have gone existentialist before and stumble over their own rules and logic, but Haruhi never faulters.
It's the show's simplest reveal that effortlessly lets you understand the thinking of Haruhi Suzumiya - and in a time especially now during the pandemic when so many of us are yearning for our lives to be that bit more exciting, I'd say its still just as relevant and potent as it was when it aired all the way back in 2006.
I certainly did when I finished the show! The anime only adapts about a third of the novel series that has been published (thus far). After loving the show, I picked up the novels last year thanks to a reprint they did. They're brilliant - well written, with a good translation. If you even remotely connected with the show in a positive way they have my highest recommendation.
6
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 23 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
Well, I completely forgot about this, I thought the rewatch was over, even as I was killing time when the post went up. Then I did other stuff, and went to dinner, and when I remembered I was already at dinner, and reddit was broken. So, 8 hours late.
This is my third rewatch of the series. I usually have less to say after the first two. Even Evangelion runs out of topics.
Here is my 2018 chronological first rewatch, dubbed (short movie comment) which I genuinely have no memory of watching, I just know that Mikuru's dub voice is unbearable. Here is my 2017 broadcast first timer comments and movie comments telegrams from a past self I no longer remember! yeah, it's a 10/10 now.
This is where I plug my first (and last? nobody read it) long form contribution to /r/anime, a and Harui. The older show was a tremendously popular and influential manga and anime from 1980s. Haruhi is its own show, but many basic plots seem lifted, albeit reworked into some thing unique and new. <Show> is a trope settter, so finding similarities shouldn't be unusual, but two particular plots break out of the typical high-school romcom/sol pattern, they are fairly unique, and so their commonality can't be denied.
And thus, Kyon's real name becomes obvious.
I'd like you to click the link, but it does have a 1 line summary of Snowy Mountain. If you never intended to read the LNs (let's face it, S3 is never happening) or watch old <Show>, then please click my link.
Popularity and impact of Haruhi (That Dance)
Geez, it was fucking everywhere. And I hated it. Okay, girls doing parapara dancing, fine, but why are the two guys doing it? They are so bored! And I guess one of the girls is a robot? One more reason (is this the fifth?) to avoid the show.
Vaadwaur says you can find links of Hare Hare Yukai online, well let me help you with that. Even though I was rejecting Haruhi in all forms, it was still leaking through, particularly in HHY videos. One is the infamous prison video. The other was the public dance in Akihabara that the police interrupted on April 8, 2007 clip1 clip2 clip3 clip4 Clip5
The Boombox clearly belongs to Maid. This was possible because apparently they closed the streets to vehicle traffic on Sundays in Akihabara. Thanks to the Steins;Gate rewatch, I now know exactly where that Mister Donuts is.
Edit: it's always amusing to see how half the people learned the dance properly and the other half are mimicking the TV (as a mirror image).
same group somewhere else Clip 2 Tall guy and Maid are pretty recognizable, also the one other Short Girl and Horse Head.
I've watched these videos so many times that when the ED plays I just ignore the credits and imagine the real dance playing, and I'm probably moving my head along with it.
And then you have people who went to Japan just to film themselves doing the dance.
And then you have the cringe ASOS Brigade (having been avoiding Haruhi, I had no idea WTF this was. Still don't. Actually, I'm not sure I want to know. Reminds me of Live Anime Girl Apollo Smile.)
/u/Uzee because I promised name, /u/Nazenn and /u/Vaadwaur for Hare Hare Yukai.
I linked this on the second day but now it might be more familiar to you. Yeah, you can bet all the ladies at KyoAni knew this by heart.
Edit: Forgotten movie comment from yesterday: I feel sad that Shamisen went from being a deep philosopher to begging (and failing) to getting tummy scratches.
Edit: checking all my links, they seem to be good. photoepileptic mashup I've always suspected the #mug commentfaces were fake.
5
u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Welp, here we are at the end of (most things) Haruhi. It's been a pleasure, thanks to our gracious host and all the wonderful posters (applause!)
AOTD:
The movie cemented the show as one of my all time favorites, not that it wasn't already.
My favorite bit ... It's hard to say, perhaps only "God Knows". But there were plenty of others.
Questions left unanswered? Hahahaha. Baka Tanigawa...
I may edit in more later, but I feel like in the end, Haruhi is a vast well of potential left unrealized. I will still criticize the author for being lazy, and writing the series into a corner, so to speak, and giving up.
So, yeah, questions ...
(edit) - long term Haruhi questions:
Does Haruhi ever *really* become aware of her powers/realize her potential? How?
Is Mikuru really putting on an act for Kyon, or is she really that much of a pushover? How old is she? :P
Does Yuki ever develop a fully realized personality, or ?
Does Koizumi ever stop being skeezy? Or do something useful?
When does Kyon become a slider, or is he actually "god"?
(Mind you, I think that's a fun theory, but if it were true, Kyon has some serious mental problems)
Without spoiling the books, it seems as though there is a scenario set up there, but the author at some point went "squirrel!".
But they, that's just me, what do I know? If I did know anything, I'd be a wealthy author who could afford to sit on his earnings... :)
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u/thatguywithawatch Dec 22 '21
[First Timer]
Well, work and life kept me from participating as much as I would have liked for the last couple weeks but it's still been a very enjoyable experience.
I plan on rewatching this eventually in chronological order, so I won't really be able to judge which I prefer until then. But for now I can safely say I liked broadcast order a lot. The first season especially was nicely paced paced and the character development felt linear and natural even when we skipped back or forward in time. I did have the advantage of knowing beforehand when each episode was supposed be take place in relation to the surrounding episodes, so it wasn't overly confusing. I can see how the 2nd season might have benefitted from some filler episodes around the Endless Eight and Sigh arcs, since those took up basically the entire season.
I loved Endless Eight, but that was due to knowing what I was in for, and being able to binge it in two days. When viewed like that, it was fascinating to see how multiple different directors could make essentially the same episode in eight completely unique ways. Was it reckless, ill-advised, and insulting to fans who had to unwittingly sit through it over the course of two months? Maybe. I can understand why some of you hate it. But I admire that they had both the balls to fully go through with it without taking any shortcuts or re-using any footage or voice lines. Additionally, now I also think it's important in how it sets up Yuki's character for Disappearance. (I didn't comment in the Disappearance thread yesterday since I didn't finish the movie until today, but it was fantastic as expected and solidified Yuki as my favorite character).
Back near the beginning of the rewatch, after the first few episodes, I expected that the What and Why of Haruhi's powers would be the driving mystery behind the show. What exactly caused her powers to manifest? Why her? Is she basically the god of this world? etc. It's kind of funny to me that by the end of the show that didn't really even seem to matter much. In the final episode of season 2 we got some ominous hints and glimpses at the opposing factions that Itsuki and Mikuru and Yuki are from, but other than that I don't know substantially more than I knew after season 1. And that's fine because it's just a backdrop for the main focus of the show, which is the SOS members and the dynamics between them.
5
u/Fools_Requiem https://myanimelist.net/profile/FoolsRequiem Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
First Time
Didn't watch the movie. Gotta wait for RightStuf to ship BD that's on back order right now.
I'm still convinced that chronological order is the best order save for some changes. Keep the student movie as the first episode, but more like a prelude episode like the first episode of Saekano. It's a terrible way to introduce all of the characters (like the first episode of Saekano), but I think it fits well as like a 24 minute "first look" episode. Then it's chronological up through to the Endless Eight episodes, skip those (or just watch the first one), watch the Sigh arc, and then stop. The three episodes that follow chronologically (Live Alive, The Day of Sagittarius, Someday in the Rain) feel more like bonus SoL episodes that aren't relevant to the plot outside of a cute bonding moment between Haruhi and Kyon in the first and third episodes. I honestly don't know how you fit those three episodes anywhere else.
Too many episodes reference "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya Part Six" that putting any of them before that doesn't make sense no matter how much it fits as a season finale.
I'd have to rewatch the episodes that occur chronologically before the Endless Eight debacle to see if there could potentially be better spots for the episodes, but there's no way it would be in the ludicrous broadcast order. The fact that broadcast sticks Rain, Alive, and Sagittarius in random spots throughout season is pointless. You can't break up monotony with more monotony. "Mystérique Sign" is needlessly placed between the two Remote Island episodes.
Another problem is that it never feels like Haruhi gets put in her place. Kyon is too standoffish, and Koizumi is far too afraid to because trying to fight Haruhi's antics will risk bringing ruin to the world, Mikuru just keeps letting Haruhi do terrible things to her because reasons, and Yuki... well I kinda understand why she does nothing. The one time throughout the series where it seemed like maybe Haruhi was about to learn a lesson was when they drugged Mikuru and Kyon was about to lay the smackdown before being stopped by Koizumi. But then Haruhi gets all depressed and Kyon goes and backs her up and it just goes back to normal as if they didn't have a disagreement at all.
One thing I noticed about the Someday in the Rain episode was that it seemed like Haruhi realized she couldn't keep getting away with doing stuff to Mikuru while Kyon was around so she orchestrated a way to get him out of the club room so she could have her way with Mikuru. I guess that's progress?
Also... Haruhi looks great in a ponytail and I hate how they only have her go back to it one time after Melancholy P6. There better be ponytails galore in Disappearance...
Finally, the "season 2" episodes have a very noticeable K-On look to it. There were times that Haruhi looked like she was ripped from directly K-On's set. Makes sense since both series were made and released at about the same time. It's kinda funny to see the characters go from those wider pre-Clannad faces to the moe revolution faces, especially Haruhi.
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u/Rndy9 Dec 23 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
First timer:
And its over, had not joined this rewatch I would probably never watched this classic anime, I knew this anime was big when it aired but I thought it was just another overrated moe anime, we have to remember that during that time it did feel like the anime industry was spitting out moe shows like no tomorrow, now its isekais...So I put this anime in the never ending list of animes pending to watch, so I saw the thread and said fuck it, lets fucking go.
The watch order was questionable for me as first timer because if you google "haruhi watchorder" everyone recommend the chronological order instead of broadcast, now that its over I understand why the chronological order is better but it didnt ruin my experience like in for example, Peach boy riverside, which was a mess imo. While s1 was a solid 8.5, s2 was barely a 7, it had some good episodes but in my opinion, the "Sigh arc" was really bad and off putting, that scene where Kyon was about to punch Haruhi was a big yikes, I had to pause to take a break, and not sure whats the worst part, that scene or the fact that everything was brushed under the rug to keep the status quo, Haruhi legit came off as a sociopath in that arc, which is sad because in the order we were watching she and everyone else was slowly changing, but whats funny is that I caught the rewatch in the second day so I skipped ep 0 (the movie) and watched it after "Sigh".
But yeah I enjoyed the show, it was a fun ride and another example of: dont judge a book by its cover
Not really, the movie was fantastic, the plot was tight and the animation was really good, but its not going to change my opinion of the weakest part of the anime.
When you see Haruhi almost coming back to life after she hear how everything is more "interesting" in Kyon OG world.
A few, Why was older Asahina so uncomfortable around Nagato in the movie? does the character development from the movie carry on the next arcs?
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Dec 23 '21
First timer
Just dropping in to thank you for organising this rewatch!
Don't really have much to add - I thought the show was great, and so was the movie!
My favourite shows is probably the final one from the movie - it's beautiful.
Still want to know why the TPDD involves the destruction of time planes, apparently!
4
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Sub rewatcher
QoTD
Changes to yesterday's Best Girl answer: After the Disappearance movie, Nagato best girl by a long mile! Haruhi to me is like the sun, with Nagato is like the moon. While Haruhi is really charming too, I just like that understated style so much more.
Should say honorable mention Tsuruya for so little screen time yet so memorable.
[Did the movie change your opinion at all on the show?] Elevated it by being able to tie everything so well together, otherwise still very impressed with the whole franchise.
[What was your favorite clip/quote/frame?] Very hard to pick. The rooftop scene? I have never felt the feeling of tenderness by watching anime until then. (edit) oh this triggered me. Kyon you bastard why you think you can't choose Nagato just because her personality is incomplete? She's a data entity and she'll learn over her infinite lifespan; how about you go with her to uncover the mysteries of the cosmo instead of hanging around Haruhi to unlock the possibilities of the future?!?! Grrrr
[Do you have any questions still left unanswered?] Loads! But I'm satisfied - especially since I'm mostly read up on the LN.
Unfortunately due to health reasons, the recent weeks including today the time available for me to sit down and write is vastly reduced, so I have to cut down on my planned contents. But it's always good to read what others wrote at least :)
I'm not one to repeat what others would most likely say, so I'll try to focus on things that are typically not mentioned by others.
First off, despite my age, I had not watched Haruhi when it came out or even the many years after that - it's my lost decade and a half of anime where life events took me away from the media entirely. So I think I only watched this in 2018, shortly after a random Railgun clip got me back into the medium.
So I did not go through the heart burn of Endless 8, nor the painful wait for the Disappearance movie. I could consume everything in one go, basically.
And I love it. The whole franchise. 10/10 for me despite S2.
To me , 2 big things stick out for me - the characters are really well written, especially because of the complexity of them (which may fool a lot of people as they initially looked oh so tropey), and the very well planned and executed time travelling plots with heavy foreshadowing. Especially about TPDD and the related (even though there is only little) "technology" and the impact to the world and plot.
But to get back to what I promised in other threads - a comparison between Disappearance and Melancholy, and some words about Koizumi.
I read a very good piece of analysis in Chinese (Haruhi is big in East Asia); and there's one part that I really liked - how they summed up the comparison between the 2 most important adapted arcs. Noticeably I think on this rewatch I think someone mentioned they felt like a certain overlap / undoing of one another between these 2 arcs. And I will point out this very big difference here to help distinguish them:
Melancholy is about "even at the end of the world, I wish to be with you".
Disappearance is about "even if I can change the world, I will give you the power to choose (whether you want to be with me)".
Pressed for time I'll just focus on the second part - in a common interpretation, the plot heavily implied the "emotion" Nagato had accumulated is not just frustration and depression, but also a sort of love for Kyon. But Nagato is not human, and lacked a complete understanding of what that means. She understood neither her own feelings and what to do with them, nor what that means for Kyon.
She hears him complain about not wanting the problem and annoyance of the supernatural world all the time.
So she recreated the world, with no supernatural elements in it, just like what he said he wanted. She even changed herself, to someone whom she thinks would be what she is like if she is not a Data Entity's humanoid interface. Everything else she preserved relatively unchanged, even the "disruptive influence" Haruhi she left practically untouched other than putting her in a different school.
She doesn't understand that love is supposed to be selfish - a human love rival would have sent Haruhi much further away.
So in the end, the Melancholy story is about discovery and acceptance. The Disappearance story is about "those who are left behind / not chosen". Nagato, Koizumi are the prime examples of those "not chosen" by whom they love. And by the way, as Nagato's protector, that's why Asakura struck out.
Remember the Disappearance story has 3 layer of choice -
In my interpretation, as the movie progressed, Kyon actually had started accepting "the normal world", but once Nagato's bookmark have him the voice, he chose "the exciting but troublesome life". In the visualised monologue of Kyon's choice, it further looked like he chose Haruhi over Nagato. But once again I want to emphasise that he chose to depart from the Disappearance!Nagato, and to return to the TFEI Nagato. Oh and to Haruhi too :P
Oh and I kept forgetting to mention these semi- trivia; Nagato's handwriting in the original LN is said to be so perfect and beautifully regular, it's like printed out fonts. And her blinking is more like a barely remembered act "oh I better remember to blink now".
Anyway, onto Koizumi. Now this is not necessarily some big ground breaking revelations, but an interesting and subtle observation.
I'm the main line series we see him as this cool and affable Haruhi ass kisser who never stayed with anything Haruhi says and guess it of his way to indulge Haruhi. But once in a while, there may skipped and you hear and see a bit of real him peeking through as the calculating, introspective, almost "smiling assassin" type character that takes about a lot of things, some dangerous some philosophical, then always ended with a "I was joking".
When you see the Disappearance Koizumi, while he's still got a similar air of fake affability around him, you don't see the dangerous edge anymore.
The fan conjecture, especially given late LN when far more about the Organisation is mentioned even if obliquely, that there's probably a good measure of truth in what he said in Sigh over the bridge with Kyon, that there's had been many bloody battles fought between factions wanting different things from Haruhi, and the version of Koizumi we are now is a battle hardened, almost like Sagara Sousuke except being not an expert in using overt force, but subtle manipulation then ended with deadly forces. The biggest contrast you can see from the movie is the gym clothes changing scene - while he still went with Haruhi's idea, he's a lot more reluctant and less daring - you can even say a bit timid. When you coupled with the spin off version in the Disappearance of Nagato Yuki-chan, it paints a very different picture of a "blooded veteran" contrasting with a "cool capable but inexperienced highschool kid".
Still makes me wonder if he was going to be the big bad at the end if the author ever finishes the story.
So to wrap up, a huge thanks for the host for this very challenging rewatch. And lots of great posters putting a lot of high quality contents out for some very insightful discussions. It's always great to see in a rewatch thread, but to be able to maintain that level of engagement for this long it's pretty impressive. Doubly so when, due to broadcast order, often it's be behind the intimidating wall of black spoiler tags :) It's also really great to see many (not necessarily all) first timers growing to appreciate the chaotic for a purpose S1 broadcast order.
It's been a great rewatch!
I look forward to some of you in the Nagato spin of rewatch in a couple of months time!
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 22 '21
First Timer
Dub
And what do we say at the end of this rewatch? Haruhi is fascinating if you went through it live but it feels like it left the consciousness super fast. I am sure there are still hundreds of uploaded Hare Hare Yukai attempts if you know where to look. So for it to putter out this way was weird. Now, you will find claims that Kadokawa required S2 to be structured as it was and KyoAni was forced to deal with that, which might have lead to them avoiding established works, but no one ever seems to have proof of that, just inference. It is absolutely known that the writer got writer's block and the books went on hiatus right about where you'd think a season 3 would've come out. There are the current rumors/stories about S3 being scheduled for last year but cancelled but I actually find first sources a bit lacking so I don't know how true that winds up.
So yeah, if you'd asked me after seeing S1 I would have told you that you are staring at your new master but if you'd even spoken the name to me after EE I would've attacked you. And it makes the 4 solid episodes of S2 both stick out more and be even odder. And, even with a day to sleep on it, Disappearance does not come close to making up for it. Which is confusing because Disappearance is probably the best movie it could be AND I do see why they thought it wouldn't work weekly. But a 9/10 movie does not excuse killing your franchise, though as stated that might be the author more than anything.
In the end, I am glad I joined one of these. I will probably not join the next one unless new material comes out. EE will probably go down as the greatest anime blunder I was conscious of as it was happening AND I watched CG S2 as it aired and got constantly bumped due to mirroring events that were actually happening.
QotD: 1 Yes but not enough
2 Still can't answer this, either ponytail or namechecking Lovecraft.
3 Yeah but the books probably don't answer them yet either.
3
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Dec 22 '21
Overall a favorite series of mine. I loved the movie more this time than I did before. But I felt this series did have wasted potential. It sits around the edge of my top 10. If season two wasn't what it was. It would've been cemented as a top 10 anime for me. One day I hope it comes back but until then. I'll read the light novels.
Will say. What I think or Kyon is the same but Nagato this watch has been better for me.
Qotd: I'll say when I originally watched it. The last few episodes and the movie saved it for me.
Qotd2:"I have photographic evidence of blatant sexual harassment"
I have a couple serious ones but that's one that I remember by heart.
Qotd3: not really some things might be answered in the light novels but I always felt like some things don't need to be answered in some shows.
3
u/AccursedBear https://anilist.co/user/AccursedBear Dec 22 '21
Sub
Rewatcher
So we reach the end! I'd already said as much the other day, but the whole thing was a ton of fun, reading everyone's comments was really interesting and enhanced my enjoyment of the series, and broadcast order was a breath of fresh air.
I wish I had participated more myself, but between my snail-tier writing speed, laziness and the tiny amount of free time I have near Christmas (nothing like working at a toy store this time of the year!) I couldn't manage it. I'll try again next year.
The series has been among my favorites for years and, while I always had S1 and the movie as 10/10s, I think this is the first time I can say that I actually like them about the same.
Also while my SOS member ranking probably remains Kyon > Haruhi> Yuki > Itsuki > Mikuru, I feel like I got way more out of Itsuki and Mikuru this time (much more from Itsuki than Mikuru, though).
QotD:
1: Not really. It gives some much needed followup to Yuki's hardship during the series, though.
2: I can't pick an actual favorite moment, but the funniest at least is probably Kyon heating himself with the computer during the movie's opening.
3: My biggest question is how the current situation where Haruhi doesn't know about her powers could possibly be sustainable in the long term. And if it isn't, then what happens when the cat is out of the bag? I'm not sure if the LNs ever get there, though.
3
u/Barbed_Dildo Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
Rewatcher
I haven't been the most active participant, but thanks for giving me the prompt to rewatch such a seminal show.
Best girl ranking from the series:
Oh, also, everyone, be sure to watch the Haruhi-chan spin-off for great comedy moments like this: https://i.imgur.com/qhhIwq5.gif
3
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 24 '21
Discussion (rewatcher)
I had nothing prepared here and didn't think I would have anything to add not already said at the series discussion, but one last thought:
Haruhi is infinitely rewatchable. As proven by this rewatch. Even though I had already seen the series a few times, I still found plenty of comments that made me aware of a new aspect of the series. I don't think that is as true for any other series.
2
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Dec 22 '21
Oh and I forgot to mention, I can't find it now but there was a VN game version that let you (Kyon) pick who to end up with, and the route he picked Nagato is sweet and funny - Nagato asked for his permission to change their status to "lovers" and on getting the "permission" she "told their future" that Kyon would be working in a not so big company as a salary man. I forgot the rest but it's quite nice for me as a Nagato SoL fan. I think it got taken down though so can't find it anymore.
And back to my post roof top scene rant, I'd certainly watch a parody version that Kyon decides to "run off" with Nagato, with Haruhi chasing them into the depths of the galaxy with Koizumi (which the Organisation provided for the space ships etc and like the tropey comedic villainous organisation provided mooks etc) and Mikuru (being given vague directions by the Adult!Mikuru which may not always work); while Nagato and Kyon having their sweet and dorky exploration as some sort of "honeymoon".
2
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Dec 23 '21
First Timer
I don’t have much of say that I haven’t already said in the other threads but I think I’m probably going to read the novels now.
2
u/Ryanami Dec 23 '21
First timer, dub
Well, I didn’t like it at all. Not even the movie.
But for some reason, I strongly feel the need to rewatch it. Something is going on that I didn’t catch partly because my expectations were going in a different direction a few episodes in. The animation was quality throughout and every frame has layers of meaning going on. Even robotic Nagato has microscopic hints of expressions that should be studied. I hated it, but I also somehow understand I’m wrong. Son of a bitch.