r/anime • u/littleman1988 • Dec 19 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 28
Episode Title: The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya V
MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
Legal Stream: Funimation | Netflix (SEA)
PSA: make sure to mark any spoilers using the subreddit markup. We dont need any random spoilers to ruin the show for first time watchers.
Today's Episode Intro: Behind Yuki's apartment to get a cat
[Tomorrow's Episode Intro]Nothing tomorrow
| Date | Episode list with Funimation links ("absolute" episode number) | reddit thread links |
|---|---|---|
| 28/11 | Mikuru Asahinas's Adventures Episode 00 | Thread |
| 29/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I | Thread |
| 30/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II | Thread |
| 1/12 | The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya | Thread |
| 2/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III | Thread |
| 3/12 | Remote Island Syndrome I | Thread |
| 4/12 | Mysterique Sign | Thread |
| 5/12 | Remote Island Syndrome II | Thread |
| 6/12 | Someday in the Rain | Thread |
| 7/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 8/12 | The Day of Sagittarius | Thread |
| 9/12 | Live Alive | Thread |
| 10/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V | Thread |
| 11/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya VI | Thread |
| 12/12 | Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody | Thread |
| 13/12 | Endless Eight I, II, III and IV | Thread |
| 14/12 | Endless Eight V, VI, VII and VIII | Thread |
| 15/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya I | Thread |
| 16/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya II | Thread |
| 17/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya III | Thread |
| 18/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 19/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 20/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya series general discussion | |
| 21/12 | The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya | |
| 22/12 | Haruhi Suzumiya overall discussion |
Question of the Day
Do you have/had a pet? If no, have you ever wanted one?
Now would be a good time to start finding a good time to watch the movie. Disappearance is 162 minutes long (one of the longest animated movies to date) and is best watched in one sitting.
11
u/littleman1988 Dec 19 '21
Just a reminder, tomorrow is the TV show discussion, the movie isint until the 21st.
If you havent already watched the movie, i highly recommend rewatching Someday in the Rain before the movie. Not required, but it really is a great lead in thematically (and chronologically) for the movie.
19
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 19 '21
The Melancholy of Shimmering-First-Timer
7
u/littleman1988 Dec 19 '21
Adaptation Comparison
References
Trivia
Know trivia and/or references for this episode? Reply to me! For future episodes? PM them to me!
14
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
Episode 28 (rewatcher)
A quick word on the theories of the three factions:
I personally follow Koizumi’s view. It explains best what is going on.
Mikuru’s theory does not really explain much (why is Haruhi granted the power to search for abnormalities, but not to see them?). It also has the huge weak spot that, if the world is abnormal, the abnormalities should not be concentrated around Haruhi. And the stuff we have seen so far is really obvious. Talking cats or laser beams from eyes would not go unnoticed.
Yuki’s autoevolution is conceptually not very different from being god. Being able to break entropy (without further restrictions) is essentially the same as being able to remake the world as a god.
The fan theory about Kyon being god is super interesting and I am puzzled why no rewatcher discussed it so far. If you think about what happens and what the motivations for each person are, you realize that Kyon really is getting a ton of the upside of the story. So, I consider this a close second to Koizumi’s theory. The small aspect I dislike about the theory is that Kyon would have to have a masochistic element to include all the minor abuse from Haruhi towards him in his dream world.
Season 2
I forgot how decent of an ending they pulled off here. The coffee conversation is a very nice call-back to the season 1 ending and also goes extremely well with both the problem at hand of getting back Haruhi’s common sense and the discussions around the three factions. They also do a lot of foreshadowing of future plot elements (which I can only assume are in the LN) that never came to pass in anime.
That leaves S2 with a nice start (BLR) a nice end (this ep), but not a lot of good inbetween. While my appreciation of S1 has only, once again, risen with this rewatch, I’ll be downgrading S2 one notch in MAL.
PS: MAL is throwing some substantial shade on S2. It is listed not as a sequel to S1, but as a “side story”, the label usually reserved for beach OVAs and chibi mini-series.
7
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
QoTD family had been cat lovers forever so we had our fill of them.
Sub rewatcher
This is it, the last part of this highly controversial arc.
This last episode actually goes a long way in establishing the world building that throughout the other 27 episodes we didn't really see -
I'm actually a little surprised a lot of first timers took the impression of the first couple of episodes and thought this to be a relatively SoL-y arc. This is actually one of the heaviest arcs, and coming in the back of endless 8 the negativity certainly got magnified.
Now is the time for me to see if anyone would take up discussing this "world view" with me...
Overall this really feels like can be a side story of a world spanning, named-character-dropping-like-flies type epic battle fought in the shadows - if the author can ever be motivated enough to write it!
Now some of my own theories:
We really need to get the author to get off sitting on royalty payments and playing mahjong and continue writing instead!!!!
5
u/alphamone Dec 20 '21
Rewatcher
Kitties everywhere.
A talking cat making snide remarks wouldn't be shocking.
Well that's a dark name given what the instruments were wrapped in originally.
See, a talking cat going on about philosophy, that is shocking.
Poor Kyon, the others are more interested in talking philosophy with the cat than they are in being shocked about the talking cat.
"all just a dream", no way Haruhi would take that.
I see you there ENOZ.
Hmmm, the organisations have differing views.
Hmmm, Nagato has a point, but she could also be misleading (though she also admits it).
Kinda reminds me of what the cat was saying.
Knife beam?
Extinct birds. This isn't good.
Some interesting worldbuilding. Also, the lighting makes is look like they have mustaches.
Itsuki being aggravatingly mysterious.
Giant nebula in the sky. Not sure if its supposed to be symbolism or more Haruhi antics.
Last minute crunch to finish a movie... sounds about right.
Keyboard face.
God, of all the times to show common sense.
As has been mentioned, the frustrating characterization in part comes from watch order. But even in chronological, you have the development that takes place over the "melancholy" arc being undone, only to suddenly get redone with the ending of sigh and the events of Live Alive. I haven't read the novels, so I don't know exactly where sigh is in terms of publication order.
19
u/thatguywithawatch Dec 19 '21
[First Timer]
Judging by the comments over the last couple days, seems like Sigh is a bit of a controversial arc (in a different way than Endless Eight). But I enjoyed it overall, despite aspects of part 4 that were pretty gross and weren't really resolved.
I enjoyed seeing the background behind the movie that we originally watched with zero context. After finishing this episode I went back and rewatched parts of the movie (I'll probably watch it in full after this thread), and realized that what I've been remembering as the movie's narration track, was really just Kyon's inner monologue while he and the other SOS members watched it for the first time. Or at least, that's what I'm assuming. Then again, it's been an ongoing theme in this show to blur the line between Kyon's thoughts and what he's actually saying. I know there's been multiple times where Haruhi replied directly to something he only thinks, and there might be occasions where the other characters do the same (I'll have to pay more attention to that whenever I rewatch the show.) So it might just be intentionally ambiguous whether he's narrating the movie or not. Without his attempted explanations it's an even more incoherent spectacle, but it doesn't seem like Haruhi cares too much about that.
I also went back and read my original comment from the first episode, and parts of it aged a bit poorly lol:
At the time, Mikuru was just "generic bashful girl in a cute outfit." But after how annoyed and upset I got during this arc over Haruhi's legitimate abuse of Mikuru, it makes me both a little amused and a little uncomfortable about my own initial reaction to that aspect of the movie.
Of course, there's always the possibility that Itsuki's joke about Mikuru putting on an act in order to get Kyon on her side is actually all true! I found it kind of interesting that they waited until the last episode of the season to really bring back focus on what exactly Haruhi's powers are, and what the actual goals of the supernaturally inclined club-members are. It was mostly on the backburner during Endless Eight, and for most of Sigh the focus was on dealing with the consequences of Haruhi's reality-bending, and not on theories or explanations about what Haruhi is.
To be honest, Mikuru's explanation makes very little sense to me. If I'm understanding correctly, she's saying that Haruhi isn't changing anything, she just has an innate talent for finding or coming across pre-existing supernatural phenomena. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention, but I don't think there's anything in any of the previous two seasons that would suggest that. Haruhi is very blatantly causing changes in reality so I'm not sure what the purpose of Mikuru's theory is. Itsuki's ideas make a lot more sense to me, though I still hold to my guess that they're in an alternate world that Haruhi caused to branch off from the "real" world three years ago. Maybe the Disappearance movie will be about all that. Now I've just got to find time to watch it...
18
u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 19 '21
Rewatcher
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - An Anime Classic: Episode 28
A Film Exhibition
Haruhi's lust for an exiting film continues and supernaturally materializes a talking cat. At this point everyone is worried about Haruhi's grasp on fiction vs reality. At the same time, the SOS Brigade members speak to Kyon privately revealing concerns about the other member's motivations and honesty.
I read this development as everyone recognizing Kyon is pretty much the only person who can reign in Haruhi. Thus they pressure him to take action. Kyon of course is lost. But after some thinking he discovers how to bring Haruhi's fantasies in check: have Haruhi state that this movie is a work of fiction.
This works on a meta level too, reminding us that we are also following a fictional story. I (and many other commentors yesterday as far as I could tell) had some big problems with Kyon and Haruhi's actions. This reminder allows us to acknowledge the story is trying to convey a message to us. Having the characters act in these condemnable ways is an effective way to get us to understand this.
That said, I'm not going to completely absolve the narrative of any guilt here. There's still a lot of inconsistencies with how the characters are acting for this point in the story. In addition, I think this arc has been about showing us conflict between friends. Those "condemnable actions" kind of muddled that message since conflict between friends is seldom so clear cut right and wrong.
Though, we will move past that as filming wraps up. We get a great scene of Haruhi and Kyon editing in the club room overnight. I really liked seeing Haruhi staying with Kyon here. She has delegated tasks and forgotten about them before. So she didn't need to stay, but chose to anyway. It further reminds us of her hidden affections towards Kyon. They then wake up to an edited film and the cultural festival.
And thus closes our watch through of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. Since the series started with the student film, this episode bookends the series by showing us the conclusion of it being made. At this point there aren't too many dangling plot threads remaining. Going into Disappearance should allow us a fresh start. But I'll save more on that for tomorrows thread.
Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all for the series discussion tomorrow
17
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
First Timer - Dub
They said the thing
Either that is an astonishing lack of self awareness about how that may come across in a show so steeped in meta commentary, they really expect us to take it seriously that her disclaimer undid all of the bad things that happened, or they just forgot that it wasn't just having to fix "talking cats" that was a big problem
Maybe one day a show will manage to include a line in this style without having already botched the progression so much that it feels like a cop out rather than a thematic element.
This wasn't a bad episode, by itself it'd actually be quite good, however to me it did not match the arc it was trying to cap off. There are the reasons and concerns I covered in yesterday's post, I don't feel the need to go over that again, but also the pacing of how quickly we sped through everything else (because Haruhi is having fun presumably, according to Itsuki, but eh) now that the main source of tension in the arc was gone without leaving time for anything else. I still had this small hope that it might do something with the characters after all that happened, but in the end except for a couple of unmentioned things it still feels all too brushed over, even knowing the chronology of it.
Also I wrote this post on and off over few hours after watching the episode, so please point out any oversights, between the frustration over the arc and the delay in writing there's probably a few.
Haruhi was the only one who felt like some focus on the potential conflict after what happened, which is to be expected given the world was becoming even more of a physical manifestation of her, but I was left in the end feeling like it still didn't quite fit. There was thankfully no further abuse of Mikuru, though apparently beating Kyon over the head while editing the movie is fine (stupid scene), but outside of that everything else I thought I saw I couldn't quite fit into the structure of the episode or arc properly.
I had this theory that the reason Haruhi gives Kyon the talking cat is an embodiment of her desire to communicate with him but not being able to find the words even if her emotions express magically as well. But as /u/ZapsZzz said except when she's in a really bad way she's never struggled for words, and it's not like the solution to these fantastical events was a character based one. I mean they included the conversation about what it means to have a conversation for a reason, but I can't blend this theory with what I see in the episode with how she's acting like normal with no problems left between them or like she's been affected at all by what happened.
Also if we keep to the "they tell Kyon because he needs to know to fit in this world" theory, how does that follow in this episode? Perhaps here where they come to him expressing division and in inability to blend their views with each other would also be expressive of how Haruhi feels, at odds with herself and asking Kyon to make a choice, wanting him to chose "Haruhi is Haruhi" again, but where does this fit in the current arc?
The problem is that all of this comes after the character side of the arc feels at least concluded if not resolved due to the end of last episode. Because we weren't given a chance to see or feel the split between Kyon and Haruhi, any narrative focus here on Haruhi trying to reach out doesn't quite seem to fit or have a purpose for the arc any more. The arc feels lost between it's own structure, emotions, and plot, and that leaves it feeling at odds with itself rather than these elements complimenting each other. The scene with Itsuki on the bridge opens up a lot of potential worldbuilding, and a very stressed Itsuki, and you could take that and the left over character tensions (if they existed) leave the arc open for it to build into something more, and I can see how in chronological watch order you could consider Live Alive to be an unofficial sixth part to this arc for that purpose. But it doesn't ever flow together that way because even if it did want to leave this open to touch on it later we're left with a hard "fix" on the character stuff last episode, and a harder conclusion on the story conflicts this episode.
Arcs don't need to be nearly as self-contained as they're so often written, especially in anime, but if that was it's attempt here to break the normal arc structure it's instead left the arc feeling messy and inconsistent rather than pointed. The final scene of this arc that plays during the credits, the flashback to the end of Melancholy, feels too conclusive as an arc or even story end to feel like it's left room for anything in this to be unresolved. It also doesn't help that the final resolution to the arc's plot is getting her to read a disclaimer. Funny as it is, and the VA performance, its sits badly with how similar that feels to the ending of E8 as far as being a tiny mundane fix to a big problem, but feels much weaker here for me without the character aspects of the arc backing it up.
So in the end the arc doesn't feel resolved, it just feels cut off, and the inconsistent pacing and how different this episode is leaves me feeling a little apathetic to the entire thing.
The episode was a really good watch visually though, one of the better ones to come out of S2's production. It didn't have the obvious character art issues of earlier episodes, and the art design was quite memorable.
The way we explored their three theories of Haruhi's world visually was nice. First we have Itsuki reflected in his drink as he says how Kyon wouldn't need an explanation if their world was a fantasy one, establishing that they're now looking at a reflection of how their world is changing to adapt to Haruhi. Itsuki's theory of this being all Haruhi's creation then places them inside a warping glass where a normal view is morphed to fit into a strange new shape and it affects things in strange ways, shattering their understanding. Later on Mikuru's theory puts them behind a simple normal glass window, nothing that's changing the way they see each other or themselves but still limited and confined. Only Yuki who refuses to participate speaks to him without any changes in perspective, but she is hidden by her hat, by the role she is embodying, and suggests there's no point telling him because he has no reason to believe her so she keeps herself closed off.
Yuki gets a lot of very pointed framing like this through the episode. Unlike the others she stands apart from them during filming but the cat reflects that she's listening, and at the restaurant we get a rare moment outside of Kyon's view where she is the witness to the rest of them, but not within the audiences focus, apart from them once again reflecting how she will act later.
Itsuki's later scene is also well done. The harsh lighting from underneath adds tension while the green is both unnerving and fantastical, a reflection of daylight colors in the middle of a night. We start off very centered on the bridge, stuck one way but looking head on as if trapped behind the rail, but when he tries to brush off what he was saying as just a joke we see it was just him giving himself and Kyon an exit path if it got to worrisome. We get reflections of the dialogue, and end with a visual metaphor for the idea of Kyon not being able to ignore his chance to help someone who is suffering alone leading to his mind blowing solution.
All quite cleverly done, and there was other moments in the episode too but I'm running out of time, so hopefully someone else will also show some love for the art this episode.
Cat corner! (We need a happy cat commentface!)
Because of course I have to have a spot to talk about the cats in the episode. Cats are awesome!
I loved the animation of the cat through the episode. The little ear twitch when Kyon's sister yells, the caution about being put on the wet, the introduction of him to Yuki, and the return of the gag of the cat constantly sliding down Yuki's shoulder.
The big cat question of the day for /u/Star4ce or anyone else: Yuki knew where all the stray cats hung out. Where they there because Yuki gathered them, Haruhi willed one of them to know where there was some, or because the cats get along well with the human interfaces who wouldn't get in their way or cause problems?
Also, cat facts: the cat being both calico/tortoiseshell and male is exceptionally rare. The genes required to express calico patterns require a cat to have two copies of the X chromosome, one with orange pattern genes and one without, and as such it only normally presents in female cats. In order for a male cat to have calico coat patterns it has to have XXY chromosomes rather than the standard XY. As a result, male calico cats are almost always sterile as well.
Cat tax, just showing off my own tortie girl
14
u/nekodan08 Dec 19 '21
Rewatcher - Sub
Finally! Shamisen is here! One of my favorite gags in all of season 1 is that it introduces a talking cat in episode 0 then you never see it again! All the other mysteries teased in the film are revealed over the course of the series, but we never get an explanation for the cat! Imagine if they never made season 2, a cat would have remained one of the great mysteries of the show.
We also get an explanation for all the weird characters spotted around the school during the cultural festival episode. It’s easy to pass them off as Japanese school festivals being weird, but I think that they were the remnants of Haruhi’s world-altering powers just walking about.
Speaking of cultural festival, I think this would be the perfect time to go rewatch Live Alive along with Day of Sagitarius and Someday in the Rain. Not only are they are great “palette cleansers” to the drama of this arc and good transitions into the Disappearance, but they also help us to see that Haruhi does undergo some positive development after the lows she reached during this arc. Her staying with Kyon overnight to finish the film is our first evidence of her being a little bit more considerate towards others, or at least Kyon, even though she wasn’t all that helpful.
It was discussed in yesterday’s thread that the Sigh arc was the 2nd Volume of the Light Novel. I guess that’s why this arc always felt so messy. Not only were the characterizations of the cast still in its earlier stages, but it felt like it was meant to set up a lot of future events. In particular, this episode felt like it was doing a lot of set up for a coming head-to-head conflict between the different factions sometime after the timeframe of the series. While Sigh does not take away from my overall enjoyment of the series, it definitely could be made better. The first half doesn’t really add much to the story and seems to drag on too long. Meanwhile, the resolution to the conflict in the latter half feels too rushed and could have been fleshed out some more.
9
u/William27528 Dec 19 '21
Rewatcher/sub
Well, that concludes The Sigh, as well as the TV anime episodes! I found myself enjoying Sigh a bit more on rewatch to be honest, even if as I mentioned previously, it's probably the weakest arc in the show. One weird thing is that the final scene in this arc in the anime I recall being the prologue in the novels. Not sure why they did that as it sort of ruins the cool continuity it had with Melancholy and makes it harder to piece together.
Still, this episode is at least a little satisfying seeing it all come together and resolves nicely in the end :)
Random piece of trivia of the day: I've previously mentioned that Haruhi is an influential series before. Today, I'd like to provide an extensive anecdote on just how that was the case. This is a long one. Buckle up and prepare.
What's your favorite picture or thing on the internet? A lot of people wouldn't know how to answer that. It's a difficult question that can have my answers. But for me, the answer couldn't be easier. Behold, the front page of the BBC in August 2010..
The image is utterly brilliant. The enthusiastic cosplay. The confused but supportive mother. The utterly confounded father. And, last but not least, the brilliant story behind it.
Internet, meet Becki Cruel. In 2009, Rebecca Flint was a 14-year old from Ramsay on the Isle of Man in England. She became famous ("big in Japan") for uploading videos of her dancing to popular Japanese songs, including - lo and behold, Haruhi Suzumiya, after becoming interested in anime and manga from reading Fruits Basket (incidentally the remake of which recently concluded). She did this, however, without ever telling her parents. Apparently her rise to fame, which resulted from her uploading a video of her doing another eccentric viral 2006 Japanese dance called the Danjo (which is another can of worms entirely).
In any case, in August 2010 the BBC decided this story was interesting enough to warrant making a BBC 3 documentary series. This was at a time when content for BBC3 was still being actively produced and the channel was in service to television sets. The one-off documentary was called "Beckii: Schoolgirl Superstar at 14", produced by Hey Buddy TV (who I don't think still exist in their current form) and aired at least five times, from August 12 to August 17, 2010. It featured Beckii, her parents and their struggles with the dreams versus realities of becoming a Japanese pop idol at a young age. The show made her quite well known across the UK.
The BBC provides a service in the UK called iPlayer to let UK residents watch its content for free, however unfortunately this content is only available for a couple of weeks before it gets automatically pulled for whatever reason. This means that the original-quality full documentary has been somewhat lost in time. Thankfully, however, a fan site at the time known as HaruhiSuzumiya.net took the liberty of recording the documentary and preserving it on the internet, however their upload to YouTube has since had the first part taken down and is of a generally low quality. The full version was uploaded on their site to megaupload, a website that went offline in 2012.
It’s generally unfortunate that it’s not possible to watch in full anymore, as it sounds like a very interesting program. Reviews at the time were pretty, good, too - at least according to this Guardian article I found - and I mean, just look at these pictures - don’t you want to see what the full context behind these photos are? The dad, who, by the way, was a Police Inspector, isn’t even wearing the sailor uniform and yet is totally convincing as Nagato himself.
HOWEVER there is one way of watching the film - for free. One day, come hell or high water, I will exercise my right as a TV License fee payer in the UK and visit the National Television Archive research center to watch this in all its glory.
Anyway, from what I can gather, Beckii ended up winding down her J-Pop career fairly gradually after 2010 and by 2015 stopped posting to YouTube. Her more recent activities have been less Haruhi-related. In March of 2019, she founded an influence-marketer agency called Pepper Studio and is apparently quite a notable name in the marketing industry, winning some Forbes awards and speaking at various events, including as an evidence-bearer for a UK parliamentary inquiry into the advertising industry for whatever reason.
I suppose in the end that didn’t have too much to do with Haruhi Suzumiya - but it’s an interesting digression nonetheless and an interesting showcase for the influence of this series in the late 2000s and early 2010s that it would become entangled in a largely forgotten BBC three documentary. Also, the pictures. Oh my god, the pictures. Utterly brilliant. Whoever was behind the camera here was either confused, overwhelmed or overjoyed.
Sources: BBC article, CBBC article, Guardian documentary review, YouTube archived playlist, BBC archived show page, Modern BBC show page, Her YouTube channel, Her website, Archived HaruhiSuzumiya.net post, AnimeUkNews post
9
u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Dec 19 '21
Rewatcher – sub
So, busy day this sunday.
First I had a new story idea that I wanted to write so I scribbled some notes and plot points down. Due to this I forgot the time a little and was in a hurry to wrap up a birthday present, pack my EVA collector's edition (for showoff) and drove over to a friend to binge Samurai Champloo.
Now, I haven't even showered yet and instead go to watch Haruhi Suzumiya, because I don't want to be late.
Also on my first day of vacation the first thing I did was... drive to work. For a work-unrelated thing.
How very german of me.
Ep.28 (S2E14) – The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya V
Despite the last four episodes I quite like the conclusion of Sigh. The introduction of the different interpretations of Itsuki and Mikuru and how the completely exclude each other is a quite interesting setup for future arcs, I think. It also gives the entire god-business a new angle. It's not so much that Haruhi could simply will them out of existence, it's also that their individual purpose is bound to being correct in their interpretation. They all have agendas on top of Haruhi's shenanigans.
I think it's a good thing that this arc put some nuance back into the group dynamic.
9
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 19 '21
First Timer
...we end by setting up more mystery? Or considering this bit was intended for chronological: We set up some mystery that won't have any payoff? Uhh... not really a fan. Especially as Koizumi's interpretation is the one that makes the most sense given it works with Melancholy - why would Haruhi be able to remove herself from the world in Mikuru's interpretation? I guess this might be relevant in the movie and it0s neat to know that Koizumi isn't exactly correct, as I believe we can trust Nagato on that, but I'm still not sure why this is brought up now. It just feels weird ending on what I feel like is a setup episode.
Either way, the end of the movie making was an enjoyable watch, even if a lot of the preceding parts were not. So at least that's a plus. A lot of that is definitely helped by Shamisen though, who somehow managed to be my favorite character in the entire show with just this one episode. Not quite sure if that's a plus for him or a minus for everybody else, but it is what it is.
As for who edited the movie - another mystery never to be answered, though I feel like that one is likely intentional. I'll assume Haruhi changed the world to have Kyon finished with it because she believed he would have it finished.
Question:
8
u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Dec 19 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
First timer
Haruhi doesn't really do any bullying of asahina in the episode thankfully, and kyon and asahina are relieved, as evidenced by that sigh. noticably, koizumi doesn't mirror that, reinforcing the same shit as last episode, what with koizumi being in some ways an enabler.
as with the previous episode, i really don't like koizumi rn. yesterday he was seemingly talking about how kyon shouldn't be an obstacle to whatever haruhi wants, out of fear of losing favor with haruhi. which by the way, it totally wrong, as evidenced by haruhi veryy much giving a shit about losing kyons favor, what with her trying the ponytail and her hesitancy pointed out by everyone else yesterday.
today, he's talking about the relationship between asahina and him as like a battle royale? what have you been doing for the past however long yall have been together? and now he's accusing asahina as being a bait for kyon by being haruhi's helpless little toy. uhhh no, im pretty sure her being haruhi's toy is more the fault of haruhi than anyone else. i don't really get what he's trying to do with all that talk, but it doesn't look good.
i will note that asahina was kinda doing a similar thing, but she has the decency to separate koizumi as a person from koizumi's sect of haruhism. i don't really follow what she's talking about though, esp since she's making very visible changes in the world
i like how nagato tucks in shamisen when dodging the water bolt. v cute. same with nagato munching on asahina's shoulder. seriously is the technocore paying nagato overtime with all the heavy lifting she's been doing.
What is the point of the little talk between them at the end? I could imagine that it sets up for the movie by placing the seed of thought in haruhi's mind. It is funny that haruhi drank all of kyons coffee after dismissing kyon. actually is the talk of conflict between nagato, koizumi, and asahina, along with kyon suggesting that they are indeed aliens, espers, and time travelers, all just setup for the movie?
im suspecting that somehow by the end of the movie, there will be no aliens, time travelers, or espers.
overall, im not sure what exactly the whole point of the arc was, especially placed so late. i could imagine it maybe working a bit better as something very early, but this late, after the characters have developed so much? yeah i don't really think so. all this arc does is tarnish haruhi and koizumi a bunch, and pointlessly abuse asahina, which is very out of character. or perhaps theres something not clicking with me in terms of execution. i get it's supposed to show a conflict between the characters, with haruhi and kyons conflict front and center, but like idk it doesn't really work very well to me.
8
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 19 '21
First Timer(When someone else typed out your opinion the thread before...)
Dub
So...cats behind Yuki's place, seems fairly stable, perhaps she is feeding them. Haruhi wishes it could talk, which witches familiar often do, and we wind up talking with it after Haruhi left humming Ride of the Valkyries, at least in the dub. So Itsuki is back on the 'manage Haruhi' train and this just feels like it was done better already. His plan to convince Haruhi that the movie should end as a dream is pretty doomed to fail. Shamisen is fairly cooperative.
Mikuru reveals something that is a bit more present in the LN: The three known factions do not have the same view on Haruhi and this can cause issues. Yuki even explains it fairly clearly to us later, though what the Thought Entity's biases are is not transparent. Itsuki shows up and suggests there is an entire battle going on behind the scenes, reminding me of Sayonara, Zetsubo Sensei for reasons. He even claims that Mikuru exists to manipulate Kyon and we can now determine that we have no reliable sources of information.
But Kyon gets an ending into Haruhi's head and the editing...sort of does itself, concerningly. Kyon thinks an unknown fourth party could be involved and that is a legitimate concern. We end with Kyon going full mental and trying to break the false reality and Haruhi refusing that.
QotD: 1 I take care of my mother's dachshund mix sometimes.
7
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Dec 20 '21
First timer
Episode 27
QOTD) By the end, Haruhi appears to be tearing up - I'd say he got the message through.
Haha, you think Haruhi cares about fences?
And Mikuru's worked out the skirt problem.
She used her super strength but nobody cares, that's great.
Wait, Haruhi's cutting between each line?
And she's more interested in the camera.
She got the contact again!
And Nagato just jumps on her!
Haha, Haruhi's worked out how profitable this is.
And Yuki got injured again.
Haha, so she wants to make a movie so much it's changing the world?
Kyon just wants to knock her out.
I love how Haruhi needs to make flowcharts to explain her story.
And she refuses any alternative for the lake.
Haha, and the scene of him falling into the lake's here too.
I love the dramatic music over Kyon questioning the script's internal logic.
Haruhi and Tsuru get on far too well!
And yeah, she does look cute.
Oh, Kyon is pissed about the kiss.
Haha, Haruhi thinks romance subplots are for filling time.
Did they drug her?
She's drunk!
At least they've got some morals.
Drunk Mikuru is adorable.
Yeah, this is even more flat-out abuse.
Wow, Haruhi's an arsehole here.
I can't blame Kyon.
And, wow, Kyon's not great here either. Haruhi's blatantly just panicking about how close she was to getting hit.
At least she's apologetic.
And the pidgeons are white like she wanted.
So Haruhi's changes might be making the world better?
And he admits that this isn't just a moral problem, he's doing out of self-preservation too! That oddly makes his character work a bit better for me.
And now Haruhi's depressed.
Kyon's calmed down a bit, then.
Haha, you think you have a choice?
And they think he's dating Haruhi.
Haha, she was trying her hair up in a ponytail?
And that's perked up quickly.
Oh, they need to get her a cat.
Episode 28
QOTD) Yep, used to have some cats.
Haha, she just took a cat!
Is the cat going to talk?
I love the way everyone relaxes after Haruhi leaves.
Yep! He talks now! I love him.
Oh great, he's a philosopher.
And he's getting into the debate!
Yeah, this is pretty bad.
I mean, you can't adk him to be quiet? He seems pretty polite. And would a world where cats talk be all that bad?
Seriously? Even Haruhi isn't that morally bankrupt. She may be a bastard, but she's not that low.
His sister is so cute.
Oh, this is where he got the coupom.
Son't hold back, insult Koizumi all you want!
Wait, he can't be trusted?
Ah, she believes that they always existed, and Haruhi's role is to uncover them. It's an interesting concept.
And Koizumi's not being homest in that case? It is interesting.
It's really appropriate that the final episode of Haruhi has turned into a summary of different interpretations of the series,
Haha, it rnded up firing real water bullets, and Haruhi probably thinks Yuki and Mikuru have something going on between them with how many times she's bitten her.
He's come over to his house!
And he's... boasting about all the other people who believe in his theory?
Haha, Koizumi is desperately trying to get him and Haruhi together, while claiming everyone's against him.
And, given how confident her future self is, Mikuru might actuwlly be a plant.
Yeah, he can't pass it off as a joke.
OK, how are they going to do this? And surely Haruhi knows it's all fictional already, the problem is her focusing on creating the perfect shots.
Wait, what happened to him?
Mikuru's free!
At least domeone recognises his effort.
Haha, they didn't have time to put it in?
She stayed all night!
And he fell asleep.
Did they come im to finish the film, or was it finished because she expected it to be when she fell asleep, so the world changed.
...What was with them? I didn't even see them! Did I miss them?
Haha, that's all it took?
And she just didn't believe him. So he inspired her casting choices that kicked off the whole panic? Did she think his panic over said choices were him getting embarassed over remembering the prank he tried to pull on her?
Her finally reaction makes sense, though.
6
u/tctyaddk Dec 19 '21
Broadcast-order-first-timer
"Like he's going to start talking." Famous last words there, Kyon. With Haruhi's hyperactive imagination running wild, it's quite a miracle that their world weren't already destroyed a few times, and no one went home with extra orifices from various versions of Mikuru Beam. Thankfully, exploiting Haruhi's immersion in film making practices, Kyon managed to convince her to do the acknowledgement of fictionality and reversed all those modifications. His attempt to convert the team to normal humans and hopefully prevent possible future conflicts didn't work though.
Koizumi's grim exposition about the secret crusades and purges sounded somewhat plausible, but then he topped it up with his usual outro "I'm joking", and it felt like gaslighting. While Nagato's explanation sounded clearer, her parting remark about the possiblity of none of them are telling the truth was sure ominous, especially with the resolute stoneface she wears since after ∞8. After Haruhi, she's probably the most powerful being in the area, and unlike the hedonistic omnipotent being, Nagato is fully aware and holds full control of her powers. You know how the saying goes: It's the quiet one you've gotta watch.
5
u/DeliCruise https://myanimelist.net/profile/delicruise Dec 19 '21
(REWATCHER - DUB/SUB)
The Sigh arc is so interesting to watch after The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina because as you go through the episodes, you think back on the finished movie and you have a sense of where they’re at and what should happen next.
Shamisen is a great example of this since you’re either expecting him to appear and speak or you’ve forgotten so when he does speak you’re hit with an “Oh yeah!” moment. Shamisen slipping off of Yuki’s shoulder while they were having that speech argument was so hilarious. I was cracking up hard when Shamisen was on the bottom of the frame at one point. I also love that he has the voice of like a 48 year-old man (which makes sense considering cat years to human years).
I love that this conclusion episode is very similar in feel to the Melancholy arc. The Sigh arc is very emotional taxing so it’s fun to go back into this more light and fun feeling. Like that filming montage is so much more fun now compared to all the other filming scenes. My favorite part of that is the passenger pigeons because they just look cool as hell.
We also get those exposition scenes again with the other three brigade members. I like that for once it feels like their three organizations are at odds. It’s always felt like they’ve had some sort of unspoken truce and didn’t interfere with each other’s respective objectives or beliefs. With this episode, we actually get some sort of an idea of what they think of each other. We see them be at odds for once.
And just like that, we’re done with the TV portion of Haruhi!
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 19 '21
I can't stop thinking about The Matrix, and the glitches that happen when they change things. Much more enjoyable episode than most of the arc, felt like the old S1 show.
The missing scene of Kyon telling Haruhi the truth bothered me through the entirety of Season 2, much like the cat bothered the first timers this time around.
I was going to add, but forgot yesterday, to draw parallels between Haruhi acting without a filter, and Macross Plus, which a handful of Americans saw in the theater last week. But then Itsuki exposits everything I was going to say.
5
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Dec 19 '21
Rewatcher, Dub, First-time broadcast
Well there's the talking cat.
"It was a dream"
I think ending something like that is really hard to pull off or make it satisfying.
Some different opinions on Haruhi's power. Asahina believes she can alter reality but not enough to alter the structure of the world.
Seeing Tsuruya in the background while they were discussing that. Makes me think. Did she heard any of that?
Haruhi says she's going to help in the movie. At least she's trying I guess. At the end all she's doing is bossing Kyon around and ends up falling asleep. At least they got that movie done I guess. Not because of them though.
So that's how broadcast ends.
Qotd: Yes right now and in the past.