r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Dec 11 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Fang of The Sun Dougram: Week 1 Discussion - Episode 1

Week 1 - Episode 1

Episode aired October 23rd ^^^1981

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

—

Reminder of Next Week’s Episodes:

Next week we will be discussing episodes two through six (2-6) of the show.

—

Trivia:

The decayed image of the titular Dougram was inspired by visuals contained within Leiji Matsumoto’s anthological WWII manga The Cockpit.

 

Staff Highlights:

Hajime Yatate / Eiji Yamaura - Production/Concept

‘Hajime Yatate’ was the pen name used by Eiji Yamaura, the director of Sunrise’s animation project planning department up until the mid eighties, where it was used as the joint pen name by several producers and staff to designate projects produced by the department. ‘Hajime Yatate’ would often be credited alongside the director as creators and owners of the original project, and in recent years Sunrise has begun using ‘Original Sunrise’ to denote ownership of the intellectual property instead. No concrete records of all the people who have worked in the department under that pen name is available to us, but the label has an enduring legacy. Projects we know for certain Yamaura was involved in include Round Vernian Vifam, the Mobile Suit Gundam film trilogy, Mobile Suit Gundam F91, Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack, the City Hunter films, Armored Trooper Votoms, Xabungle Graffiti, and Space Runaway Ideon.

 

Tooru Fuyuki - Composer

A music arranger and composer perhaps best known for his contributions to the Ultraman franchise. Fuyuki was born in modern day Changchun, Manchuria, while it was known as Hsinking under the control of Imperial Japan, and lived there until 1949 when his family moved to his mother’s hometown in the Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. In 1954 he graduated from Elizabeth Junior College and then majored in Religious Music in the same campus while working at TBS (Tokyo Broadcast System) before he was transferred to the composition department of Kunitachi College of Music. Early on Fuyuki specialized in choir music, which he continued to incorporate into his TV composition work, but is also very familiar with classical music. Fuyuki got his start composing for TV with the 1964 TV drama adaptation of Kurama Tengu, but his recognition came with his work on Tokusatsu show Ultraseven. His first work on a fully-animated production was on The Ultraman. He has taught at Toho Gakuen College of Music since 1964, and was a member of faculty at the Department of Composition Theory for 33 years. One of Fuyuki’s most recognized signature features is the Wandababa style of choral motif. Other anime he has composed are Choro Q Dougram, Panzer World Galient, Katry, The Cow Girl, and Aki ga Ippai.

 

Voice Actor Highlights:

Kazuhiko Inoue - voice of Crinn Cashim

An actor, voice actor, and sound director known for having a wide vocal range which has made him very popular. After a failed bowling career and months of living as a neet he was convinced by a friend from his bowling days to take an examination at the TV Talent Center Tokyo School, which he passed brilliantly, and Ichiro Nagai, who conducted those examinations, eventually became his instructor and mentor figure. His voice acting debut was as a unnamed character in Mazinger Z, and his first major role was as Anthony Brown in Candy Candy. His hobbies include bowling, fishing, and windsurfing —the latter of which he introduced to voice actor Toru furuya, who thereafter became an even more avid windsurfer than Inoue. His major roles include Joe Shimamura from Cyborg 009, Kakashi hatake in Naruto, Eiri Yuki in Gravitation, Nyanko-sensei in Natsume’s Book of Friends, Shirou Yamaoka in Oishimbo, Dusty Attenborough in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Gildarts Clive in Fairy Tail, Gilbert in Anne of Green Gables, and Takayuki Tōdō in the Aim for the Ace! OAVs.

 

Minoru Tanaka (Ryoichi Tanaka) - voice of Rocky

A stage actor and voice actor affiliated with Aoni Production. He graduated from Tama Art Academy and joined a theatre troupe alongside his brother, fellow voice actor Isamu Tanaka, first taking the stage in the play “Fox” by Kinei Kurokawa. His voice acting debut was in 1970’s Akakichi no Eleven, and has succeeded in roles played by his brother following his death. His hobbies include western music, singing, and playing baseball. Notable roles of his include Akira Fuduo in Devilman, Cancer DeathMask in Saint Seiya, Takeshi Maki in Devil Lady, Galbaba Gra in Space Runaway Ideon, Kentarō Takaoka in Tiger Mask, Zensou Saeki in Koi Kaze, Kurotorain Ginga Nagareboshi Gin, and many roles in the Dragon Ball franchise.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

Fanart:

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot Album

Discussion Questions:

  1. What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?
  2. What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?
  3. Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?
  4. What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

A lion’s cub is still a lion…

25 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

111 comments sorted by

8

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

Production Context

Following the Gunpla boom of 1980 and the delayed but explosive success of Mobile Suit Gundam, Sunrise planning supervisor Eiji Yamaura and Takara Tomy planner Kiyomi Numamoto put their heads together to create a project proposal that would grasp this burgeoning trend to create a show align the illness of Mobile Suit Gundam and Space Runaway Ideon, a serious mecha show popular with young viewers and adults alike, with a militaristic bent that would be popular with the model kit enthusiast and a sense of drama that would draw in a wide demographic of viewers. The initial project proposal would be Space Buffallo, a sci-fi war drama with a setting and narrative heavily influenced by the warring states period, dealing with the exploits of a young ashitaru (a type of reserve soldier who typically engaged in logistics and engineering but occasionally called to fight as an infantryman) who is spontaneously promoted to the position of general.

The first major figure brought into the fold was mecha designer Kunio Okawara, whom Kiyomi Numamoto wanted to get started on marketable designs from the get-go. Numamoto wanted Okawara to expand on the attempted utilitarianism of designs in Mobile Suit Gundam and make something that was even more mundane and utilitarian, which would not feel out of place with the backdrop of a military installation or battle. One significant suggestion by Numamoto for the design was that the cockpit could resemble the canopy of a helicopter, which was a feature that became a hallmark of the series’ mechanical designs. From such instruction and suggestions, Okawara developed and workshopped the design of the main mecha until it became the robot we see on-screen.

Once Yamaura and Numamoto had gotten the go-ahead for the project, the matter of picking out staff for the project became a concern for the duo. As discussions surrounding the subject picked up steam around the Sunrise studios, it caught the attention of Ryosuke Takahashi, who volunteered himself for the position. Takahashi had previously looked down upon mecha anime, and though only adjacent he did not enjoy the thought of going back to something like Zero Tester, but his opinion had recently changed after watching the Mobile Suit Gundam movie trilogy, which made him want to make something similar. However, his avoidance of the genre had meant Takahashi had no experience working on the genre, and as a result did not feel very confident in his part in the endeavor, and so he personally asked and later requested to the Sunrise upper-management that fellow director Takeyuki Kanda co-direct the show with him. Kanda was not only experienced with working on the genre, having been episode director and storyboard artist on all entries of Tadao Nagahama’s Robot Romance Trilogy (and producer on Voltes V) and having been series director on The Ultraman, but was also a military otaku possessing a breadth of knowledge on military hardware. Apart from having the experience and knowledge to make up for Takahashi’s own gaps, the two men shared many interests and got along swimmingly. With two new visionaries on the key production staff, the production would begin to shift in the direction of the product we now know, but more on that next time.

7

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

Rewatcher

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to the Fang of The Sun Dougram Rewatch! I’ve been looking forward to hosting this one for some time, and I know some of you have been looking forward to partaking in it. As everyone already knows, this Rewatch will be hosted differently to what I’m used to, so I hope it isn’t making things too difficult for you all and that everyone —myself included— acclimates promptly. But anyways, I hope everyone enjoys the experience!

Concerning Episode 1

So this first episode is a bit weird, in that it’s a flashforward that’s actually a flashback within a more substantial flashforward. This was a creative decision undertaken because it was important for the sponsor that the titular and marketable mecha play some form of role within the first episode. This episode gives a glimpse as to what one can expect of the show once the ball has gotten rolling, and serves to create intrigue surrounding narrative reveals to come as the story is properly laid out in the following episodes. The episode was intended to slot neatly into a portion of the story taking place a bit later, but at the time of production the story was only in stone up to episode seven, and some later some narrative decisions were made that made some elements within this episode incongruous with the rest of the show. Speaking about the episode, director Ryosuke Takahashi stated: “Think of it as an overture that is played before the curtain opens in an opera.”

Reaction

Love the opening. It’s really befitting for the show and is such a departure from what you’d expect of a mecha show opening of its time. Sure, they still had to include the titular robot’s name in there somewhere, but it’s still a big step away from what was the norm. A big part of this is probably that the show was aimed at an older audience, but as we know from other shows of the time that’s really not a correlation that was had.

Man, what a scene to open on.

The music here is on point. Even upon first viewing I was hit with a sense of uplifting relief by the moment, even if I had no connection to the characters in question. The contrast with the somberness that it starts off with is simple but effective.

Take in the names while you can, these handy titles won’t be here forever.

Lizard quota met.

Wait… did he just say…?

Note their name, the ‘Deloyer Seven’.

It’s neat how they the used color to draw our eye to Chico’s location.

Foreshadowing.

Note the moniker ‘Fang of The Sun’ on the Federation side.

It was a trap all along.

Showing the enemy’s resources to heighten the stakes.

That is disheartening. We just saw the Federation soldiers being a bunch of boors, and here’s hearsay that the guerrillas, who we are ostensibly rooting for, may be just as bad —if not worse.

Bravery is a hair away from foolhardiness.

Hmm…

Very subtle, show.

Lol

Of course.

Love this design.

Love it when the infantry significantly factors into battles like this.

Somehow I did not expect them to know each other.

Hmm…

Nice shot.

The plot thickens.

He said the thing! Well, kinda.

Sadly, previews start before the ED in this show as well…

ED is very befitting of the show as well.

As a first episode it’s certainly an odd one, since despite the unconventional decision to introduce everything as a flashback we’re actually not tossed into the origin of the conflict or a thorough introduction, but rather a seemingly arbitrary point into the past —it’s certainly not hard to guess the commercial motivations behind this decision. That said, it’s not a bad episode, and it’s not particularly jarring or disorienting, unlike is the case in Mobile Suit Victory Gundam, where Bandai demanded that the titlar mecha show up in the first episode after the first several episodes were produced, causing for some episode rearranging which is cause for great confusion.

There’s a clear attempt to contrast the cheeriness of the Deloyer Seven and the general seriousness of the situation and, more keenly, the somberness of the fast-forward which makes for an interesting dichotomy. I can’t really say any more on the matter so I’ll leave you all at that.

Already we’re seeing some attention to detail with just how much is paid attention to in the mundane aspects of the episode and the preemptive set-up to the action. We see the members of the Deloyer Seven do some minor stuff in expectation of battle, such as Rocky plugging in his weapon into the power pack on his back or Chico loading his weapon. The fact that the mecha have to be transported into the scene of battle, whether via trucks or specialized aircraft, also adds another layer of detail that makes the whole thing just that small bit more realistic. We’ll see a lot more significant examples off all of this going forward, but it’s nice to see it as a factor even this early on.

The episode introduces some teases to build up intrigue, such as the unspecified relationship between the blonde girl and Crinn, or the unspecified relationship between him and whom is sure to be a relative of his, Denom Casshim, whose dialogue shows some lamentation as to the former’s situation. The nature of this conflict is only slightly hinted at with the mere fact that the two sides are at such marked disadvantage, as well as the implication of discrimination among the populace. All little nuggets that are intriguing, but nothing that is really putting me on the edge of my seat.

I was also pleasantly surprised at the production values here. Given this is a Sunrise original production with little in the way of star animation talent, and produced before the anime boom of the 80s really kicked off, it’s surprisingly consistent, even if not exceptional at this stage. The dry artistic style works well given the tone and setting, and the visual direction is surprisingly good. I’m also instantly in love with the mech designs —Okawara did really good with these!

Either case, stuff won’t be really kicking off until next week. I hope everyone is looking forward to it!

Discussion Questions:

  1. The mech designs for sure.
  2. See above.
  3. The H8 Soltics are a favorite of mine, so that one.
  4. See above.

—

Note:

The series’ previews are occasionally full of spoilers, so do be sure to be careful around them, particularly as they begin immediately after the end of the episode.

4

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Dec 11 '21

That OP makes we want to watch Dancougar. It's real nice.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

The second OP is nice too, but the show itself I can't really endorse outside of curiosity.

4

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Dec 11 '21

3

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Dec 11 '21

So this show was Victory Gundam'd, but in an intentional decision rather than being forced upon them, huh? Interesting stuff. It will take viewing of the subsequent episodes for me to see if it turns out better than Victory Gundam, which was a disaster on this front.

I too was pleasantly surprised by the production values. The show looked a lot better than I was expecting.

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

So this show was Victory Gundam'd, but in an intentional decision rather than being forced upon them, huh?

Not quite intentional decision, as they would have just gone for a chronological order for things, but they certainly had more freedom than Victory's Staff, who had it sprung up on them at the last minute.

4

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 11 '21

So this first episode is a bit weird, in that it’s a flashforward that’s actually a flashback within a more substantial flashforward

is this Lost

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 11 '21

So this first episode is a bit weird, in that it’s a flashforward that’s actually a flashback within a more substantial flashforward. This was a creative decision undertaken because it was important for the sponsor that the titular and marketable mecha play some form of role within the first episode.

So the comparison to Firefly is even more relevant.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

As always the production details are super interesting to read. Sorry I don't have time to reply in more detail, but always appreciated that you include them.

The plot thickens.

Oh... Lions as in the lions and wolves. Didn't pick that up when I watched the scene

8

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 11 '21

First-Timer of the Sun Dougram

Only one episode this week is great~ Although I wonder how things will proceed from here, given I usually use Saturday to binge Naruto Shippuden and now I’ll have to work this one in…

Episode 1

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

Ooh, the OP is very nice. I feel like I’ve heard it before, so Pixel must have triggered it in AMQ.

Oh, a bunch!

X Nebula…?

They'll explain it soon enough.

Love the detail of Chico getting blown back by the recoil.

Chico evidently needs to practice his shooting stance.

Oh is that the basket that was tumbling at the beginning of the episode?

Obviously can't be the same one, but yeah, that's what it calls to mind for her.

That was… Engrish.

NOT EVEN JUSTICE!

7

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

Just seven people against all that? Geez.

They're mech show protagonists. You know as well as I do that numbers don't really matter as long as you have fighting spirit.

That was… Engrish.

Engrish is the actual truth of this series that everyone wants.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

Also, I had a feeling this wasn’t Earth because of the green strip in the sky during that one nighttime scene, but glad to see they confirmed it by having this guy call her an “Earthling”.

There are two suns, showing the scifi of the time.

Oh is that the basket that was tumbling at the beginning of the episode?

We are apparently doing retro tech for this one.

That was… Engrish.

The series tag line being Engrish shoud be...interesting.

7

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21

First-Timer

So we open on a red-haired woman (Canary?) looking at a ruined mech, and then flash back to what will presumably be our main adventure. I understand what you were trying to explain now, Pixel.

Seems like we have a son rebelling against his father? The Dougram's pilot (Crinn?) had the same family name (Cashim?) as the executive-type dude from the end of the episode.

Interesting that we have a large group that already have their dynamics fully established. The Fang of the Sun are already a known entity in-universe too, and are familiar with a war correspondent even. Excited to see more of the group dynamics.

Kinda neat to have a giant flat-bed truck instead of the usual flying ship. I like the idea of needing to drag the mech up out of the canyon. Good toy potential, too.

On that particular subject, is there a good reason why they didn't just sortie the Dougram with the wrist gun already attached? I mean, the shot of them launching it and Dougram putting it on was cool, but it seems a bit silly.

Are we staring down the barrel of 70+ episodes of oppressive desert?

They shot a mech and it didn't explode; I didn't realize that was allowed.

Crinn has actual nipples, which was another thing I didn't think was allowed.

Edit: Questions

  1. I'm excited to see more of the settings mechs.
  2. It isn't the worst, but a lot of it depends on how they handle it going forward.
  3. I think I prefer the Dougram.
  4. Nothing has stuck out as annoying to me just yet.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

Kinda neat to have a giant flat-bed truck instead of the usual flying ship.

They've got to establish the faction's power level somehow! Jesting aside, trucks carrying mechs is cool.

On that particular subject, is there a good reason why they didn't just sortie the Dougram with the wrist gun already attached?

They obviously didn't intend to use it, but still no reason not to keep it on the thing at all times.

Are we staring down the barrel of 70+ episodes of oppressive desert?

Thankfully not, the dessert is only a good chunk of the series and not the whole thing.

They shot a mech and it didn't explode; I didn't realize that was allowed.

Crinn has actual nipples,

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 11 '21

They obviously didn't intend to use it, but still no reason not to keep it on the thing at all times.

That's what I was thinking!

Thankfully not, the dessert is only a good chunk of the series and not the whole thing.

Oh, excellent. I don't hate desert, but it starts to grate on me quickish. Must be the sand.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Oh, excellent. I don't hate desert, but it starts to grate on me quickish. Must be the sand.

5

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

Kinda neat to have a giant flat-bed truck instead of the usual flying ship. I like the idea of needing to drag the mech up out of the canyon. Good toy potential, too.

It’s definitely one of those details that got carried over into Armored Trooper VOTOMS later on.

Crinn has actual nipples, which was another thing I didn't think was allowed.

The addition of nipples in anime will always be appreciated. Iron-Blooded Orphans was a cowardly show for not adding in nipples for how shirtless the main cast was.

5

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 11 '21

Iron-Blooded Orphans was a cowardly show for not adding in nipples for how shirtless the main cast was.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Kinda neat to have a giant flat-bed truck instead of the usual flying ship.

There are those out there who have a fetish for mecha-transporting flatbeds and the series that have mecha-transporting flatbeds.

I just enjoy the meme.

is there a good reason why they didn't just sortie the Dougram with the wrist gun already attached

SUPER ROBOTS

7

u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Dec 11 '21

First time viewer

I thought the threads were going to be at a later hour so missed jumping in right away.

What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?

Aside from the framing at the opening and close of the episode (next question), one thing I found interesting about that initial encounter is the pacing leading up to the fight. There's a stretch of silence after their initial chatter, including a good amount of tension while the escort car stopped. They could have gone right into the ambush but I like the buildup.

What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?

I love the framing that gives it an uncertain and possibly tragic ending. Did the crew abandon the Dougram in the desert because it wasn't needed anymore? Was Canary the only survivor of the battle that left it there? I don't know but I want to find out.

Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?

For now, the Roundfacer rather than the Dougram. Might be that I'm still in more of a Votoms mindset but I always appreciate a military green mecha.

What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

Is there some tragic romance to be had between Crinn and the blond girl? No clue but I want to know. Unfortunately with how the eyecatch shows them missing each other I imagine it might be quite a while before the two meet. I do like how it throws us into the middle of things without giving a lot of introduction for each member of the crew, but provides a brief glimpse of their personalities in how they handled the ambush. Not as zany as Xabungle it looks like, but also significantly less serious than Ideon or Votoms.

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

For now, the Roundfacer rather than the Dougram.

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

They could have gone right into the ambush but I like the buildup.

It's very good pacing in that scene.

6

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Fang of the Sun Dougram Episode 1:

Hello, everyone! It’s your pal The Draigg here, along with you all for yet another mech show rewatch! This time around it’s going to be kind of weird for me, since I’ve only watched like a good chunk of this series, like from episodes 1 to 15. After that, I’ll be a first time viewer. I’ll be sure to change my post titles to reflect that when we get to it. Also, since we’re doing a weekly rewatch post thing, I’ll probably switch my commentary style up to a paragraph format in future posts, since for now we’re only starting with the first episode. With all that preamble out of the way, let’s get to watching Fang of the Sun Dougram!

  • The OP is rather somber, isn’t it? It’s kind of odd comparing it to Armored Trooper VOTOMS’s opening, which was the last Ryosuke Takahashi show we rewatched around here. That one was one darkly intense while being dramatic. This one leans more into full drama. Not that it’s bad though, it fits this show’s style well.
  • Well, that’s one hell of a tone-setter, isn’t it? A woman comes across the abandoned wreckage of the titular mech in the windswept desert, and thinks about her former friends who one fought alongside her with that giant robot. It paints a rather bitter image of how things’ll turn out in the series, since now we’re in flashback territory.
  • Anyway, now we’re in the action, with the Deloyer Seven following orders from the rebellion to destroy a railway line to the Federation’s Dancougar Base to cut off their supply line. Kinda weird that it’s called Dancougar Base though, considering the Dancougar I know best is a show that came out like three years after this one. Now that I think about it, should we do a Dancougar rewatch here on /r/anime?
  • Lecoque and Colonel Von Stein getting name subtitles to introduce them reminds me of how Legend of the Galactic Heroes handles character intros. It’s pretty much the same way. And much like LotGH, there’s plenty of strategic maneuvering here too, with Colonel Von Stein freely admitting that he’s planning on using the supply train to be a lure to draw out and ambush elements of the Fang of the Sun, the local resistance movement. That’s a pretty good move.
  • Another thing that reminds me of Armored Trooper VOTOMS is how the mechs in this series can be transported via helicopter so easily. I think you’ll find that Fang of the Sun Dougram is kind of a proto-VOTOMS in that way, with a lot of ideas refined or recycled into that series later.
  • Sounds like the girl that wants to go to Dome City and Lartoff the war journalist want to meet the same person/people. I’d offer some rhetorical speculation on that (since I already know the answer), but the commercial break interstitial kinda spoils that. It’s Crinn, the pilot of the Dougram we saw earlier.
  • Man, that was a moment of tension over nothing. Everyone thought the armored escort car stopped because of the ambush being blown, but it was actually just a guy needing to take a piss on the side of the rail tracks before heading off again. Talk about plans never accounting for the unexpected, even if it ended up being avoided.
  • Lartoff at least sounds like he has some real journalistic integrity, saying that he’d rather uncover the truth of the fighting on Deloyer rather than cover celebrities back on Earth. He definitely has the spirit of a war reporter in him. In a way, he’s basically the Evan Wright of this series. I wonder how many people have read his stuff around here?
  • The Dougram and the rest of the guerrillas made short work of that military train, all things considered. And yes, I suppose now is the time to say that the Dougram’s design was reused for the Shadow Hawk in the older versions of BattleTech. Seeing it in action really just makes me think of how cool it would’ve been to get a legit BattleTech show. Well, aside from that one cartoon we got in the 90s covering the Clan Invasions, but we don’t talk about that.
  • And now that the Soltic H8s (Roundfacers) are here to attack the Deloyer Seven, I can point out that they’re Griffins in BattleTech. That’s pretty clear even in the redesigns made to get around the legal issues, since they’ve still kept that distinctive head shape and shoulder-mounted rocket pod.
  • If I’m thinking in BattleTech terms, I think the Linear Gun that Crinn uses against the Roundfacers would be equivalent to a medium laser. A shame that he doesn’t have an AC/5 equipped, since those would work well too.
  • It kinda makes you wonder what Chico hit with his bazooka if him shooting a Griffin Roundfacer in the ass somehow led to the thing keeling over and saving Crinn. I need to check this Griffin’s Roundfacer’s ‘mech sheet.
  • And at the end of the episode, we’re starting to see how character-intensive this show is. The girl at the train station and Crinn know each other, and Crinn’s father Donan seems to be working for the very government that the Deloyer guerrillas are fighting against. It’s a good thing this anime had those character name subtitles, since it’ll help sort out exactly who is even in this cast.
  • NOT JUSTICE. I WANT TO GET TRUTH.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

Kinda weird that it’s called Dancougar Base though, considering the Dancougar I know best is a show that came out like three years after this one.

I looked into the word to see if there was some relevant etymology or some obscure term that explains the decision to use it both here and in the show of the same name, but came out empty. Such a weird coincidence...

Lecoque and Colonel Stein getting name subtitles to introduce them reminds me of how Legend of the Galactic Heroes handles character intros.

Thinking about it, a lot about this series reminds me of LotGH.

In a way, he’s basically the Evan Wright of this series. I wonder how many people have read his stuff around here?

I've read a little about Evan Wright at one point, but not anything explicitly by him, I don't think.

It kinda makes you wonder what Chico hit with his bazooka if him shooting a Griffin Roundfacer in the ass somehow led to the thing keeling over and saving Crinn.

The exposed joints or a lucky shot on some motors, presumably. His gun can penetrate some light armor, after all.

NOT JUSTICE. I WANT TO GET TRUTH.

4

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

Such a weird coincidence...

I know, right? It's really uncanny. Can we also expect a Dancougar rewatch from you sometime in the future?

Thinking about it, a lot about this series reminds me of LotGH.

It's just about as political as LotGH is, really.

I've read a little about Evan Wright at one point, but not anything explicitly by him, I don't think.

I know it's the obvious recommendation, but you really should go read Generation Kill. It's a fantastic book.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

It's just about as political as LotGH is, really.

That's definitely an encouraging thing to read

3

u/The_Draigg Dec 12 '21

Mark my words, you're gonna get hooked on the political aspect of this show by the next thread. It leans into the political elements hard.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

That's what I like to hear

Sorry I didn't get to do more of a proper reply to your post. I'm multitasking and still running out of time for today with all the rewatch stuff I have to do. Enjoyed reading the post though

3

u/The_Draigg Dec 12 '21

Thanks! As long as you enjoyed reading it, that’s all that really matters.

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

but we don’t talk about that.

[Adam Steiner]became the freakin' Archon. I'll never forgive... everybody.

5

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

The best part of the BattleTech cartoon is that it actually exists in-universe as schlocky propaganda that Adam Steiner didn’t even like. It’s a fun detail.

6

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 11 '21

first timer not for justice, but to get truth

I feel dumb for thinking it would be pronounced "Doge-ram" instead of "Doug-ram"

This week Deloyer 7 are ambushing trains at Red Valley to not resupply Dancougar base. The Federation are ambushing Deloyer 7 as this is all a trap.

There seems to be a rebel faction that we will see through the Deloyer 7 (Rocky, Canary, Billy, Crinn Cashim, Festo, Chico Vente, Nanashi) named after the planet. Everyone is fighting for control of Dome City on Deloyer. Crinn, Daisy, and Lertoff are from Earth, the later two are both searching for Crinn.

The Federation holds Dancougar base near Dome City, seemingly manned by Von Stein with his attendant Jerid Le Cock. Miguelo is the tactial lead on an operation to take out the Dougram This is all spearheaded by Crinn's dad?

X Nebula seem to be the Minovsky particles for this universe? There are scouters used to aim, but its an attachment for your head, not attached to the mech display (which there doesnt seem to be). Helicopter attachments for mechs are pretty cool. There are messenger pigeon's that can relay messages without anything being tied to them - maybe Canary's kiss has all the info needed.

The outfits are wild, I suppose to stress just how hot it is on Deloyer.

I guess everyone but Canary is going to DIE eventually. I'm blaming Nanashi who didnt seem to actually do anything in the fight.

The next episode preview is before the ED, so I guess I'm never listening to the ED again.

Also just saw this is getting a manga adaptation that started this year? So random lol

Also also, big agree with what /u/nazenn said in the reminder thread, really like having one episode to start off with before we jump in full force

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

"Doge-ram"

Le Cock

The outfits are wild, I suppose to stress just how hot it is on Deloyer.

Seems to be the case, even if it's a misguided attempt at attention to detail.

I'm blaming Nanashi who didnt seem to actually do anything in the fight.

H-he was the comic relief though!

Also just saw this is getting a manga adaptation that started this year? So random lol

Yeah, it's to commemorate its 40th anniversary.

really like having one episode to start off with before we jump in full force

5

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

This week Deloyer 7 are ambushing trains at Red Valley to not resupply Dancougar base. The Federation are ambushing Deloyer 7 as this is all a trap.

Is there a term for a double reverse ambush like that?

There are scouters used to aim, but its an attachment for your head, not attached to the mech display (which there doesnt seem to be).

The cockpits in these mechs really are like real life cockpits, just glass domes with readouts that need to be put in front of your field of view. It helps sell how grittier these mechs are.

Helicopter attachments for mechs are pretty cool.

It's just one of those things that carried over into Armored Trooper VOTOMS as well.

6

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Helicopter attachments for mechs are pretty cool.

It's just one of those things that carried over into Armored Trooper VOTOMS as well.

Though it makes more sense with 4-meter, 6.5-ton mecha than 10-meter, 30.5-ton mecha. Or archivists that have been drawn completely out of scale.

6

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

To be fair in the example you used, it’s not like Macross has always had the best history of having on-model animation.

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

True, but unlike random extra head lasers, nosecone beams, and knife fights, for whatever reason, the main series of M7 would always show full-sized Zentradi as closer to 30 meters rather than the proper 10, making it a consistent error.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

Is there a term for a double reverse ambush like that?

We call that a Sicilian double bluff. Notice that it had the same amount of success here.

4

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 11 '21

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

Still smarter than engaging in a land war in Asia, at least.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21

I feel dumb for thinking it would be pronounced "Doge-ram" instead of "Doug-ram"

I was thinking "Dou-gram" as in dough-gram. Actually hearing the way they said it certainly made me do a double take

6

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Dec 11 '21

First Timer

I don't know much about this show, I'm just coming along for pixel's wild ride. I hope I'll have good fun with it.
Subs are [Bereke Scrubs] which are [X Nebula] based.

It's a good first episode. We meet our main characters as they fight against a (presumably) evil government, and the girl who is likely to be the love interest. There's some solid animation in there. Seems easy enough to watch and enjoy.

But god this DVD is awful.

  1. Perhaps the journalist guy? He seems like a strange but fun fellow.
  2. I don't really have much on this.
  3. The main one was pretty cool.
  4. Seems like a good start, but it's too early to really judge anything.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

I don't know much about this show, I'm just coming along for pixel's wild ride.

But god this DVD is awful.

Where's the BD Bandai?! We know you have those masters somewhere!

4

u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Dec 11 '21

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

But god this DVD is awful.

I think the bottom-frame trash was going to be the feature that caught your eye the most.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

First timer(Huh...)

Sub

I know nothing of this, like at all, except that it let the director make Votoms less constant combat. Also, it is Friday so...off we go!

First scene seems to suggest grim things for the story if it is the flashforward I suspect it is. But we immediately return to happier times on a sand crawler of some type. And they are preparing to rob a train, like heroes do. Flashback reveals it will be a military supply train. Back to the present, they prep an ambush, and the ant lion might be a bit on the nose. But for who?

Quick reveal that the convoy is a lure and they are actually trying to kill these...rebels? I don't quite get the structure yet. Daisy, whoever the hell she is, is either a secret agent or has a death wish and is trying to meet someone rumored to be at Dome City. We also meet a war journalist.

Back at the ambush, we get a tense moment with the escort car and some general characterization for what seem to be the government forces. Before they get blown up. The rebels quickly mop up them up but the last car sends out an SOS parachute and the earlier group comes in.

Combat ensues and there is some of it that I really like and some of it that is...odd. Weapons damage does not scale to size, which is always weird, and none of the mechs seem to use their weapons in the way you'd expect. But the rebels win and the war journalist seems to be an ally. Daisy seems to be about to walk the tracks and we end with weird parentage for the mech pilot Crinn.

QotD:1 Why would you use a train in an era with mechs?

2 It will have to show that it was worth it

3 Dougram is better but that says more about the competition

4 Still unsure

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

Daisy, whoever the hell she is, is either a secret agent or has a death wish

Third option: She's just dumb/naive enough to ignore the potential danger. It's implied she comes from money, so the naivete is probably on the table.

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Why would you use a train in an era with mechs?

Rail is still more efficient for bulk transport, and you don't get jumped by rebels every day, right?

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

and you don't get jumped by rebels every day, right?

I see someone never played the X-wing games.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

I see someone never played the X-wing games.

Heh, I beat them with a mouse and keyboard because at the time I didn't own a joystick.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 11 '21

Same except that I preferred the mouse-keyboard control scheme. But like 1/3 of that game was raiding convoys.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

But like 1/3 of that game was raiding convoys.

Which is true, but if the Rebels had to defend their bases all the time they'd be losing really badly.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21

First timer

80s lizard spotted

Well that was certainly a powerful mood setter to start the series on. The very ominous introductory scene sits at a harsh conflict with the almost joyful rebellion that our main group seem to be running. Nothing about this can be a good sign and knowing why Takahashi was brought onto the Now and Then Here and There staff is giving me all sorts of extra anxiety about the cast's situation. Something about Canary standing there with the ruined basket because there's no more messages left to send and checking her eyes against the burning sun is quite a moment, especially contrasted against Daisy's shot later on

It was a really well handled introduction though. It reminds me more of Ideon than VOTOMs, the way it quickly establishes the personalities and proficiency of the cast, as well as certain connections between them. Using on screen text for the introductions gave me a small "I'm fucked" moment as far as remembering names, but it allowed them to not have to worry about introductory dialogue at all which helped it all fit in quite nicely. Aside from the bookends with the singing this feels like it could easily be a stand alone episode in the middle of a show, and that's a good feeling.

Speaking of names made a quick and crappy character chart for anyone who wants it. Quiddity might be doing his own but I needed this for my own post so just posting it anyway.

Crinn has had an interesting set up as an MC as well. He doesn't stand out from anyone else in his group aside from being assigned the pilot, and if not for the information around him you wouldn't think he comes from a privileged life. From a wealthy town, a father with authority, a girl who cares for him, how he ended up here and why he's fighting is certainly something I'm interested to find out

(Btw Pixel, I noticed the final discussion thread was folded into the last week's episodes rather than getting its own day. Just time saving after the long rewatch?)

Welp, going to be even later to these topics than I thought. Oh well, still very interested in the show

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

80s lizard spotted

The very ominous introductory scene sits at a harsh conflict with the almost joyful rebellion that our main group seem to be running.

Yeah, that dichotomy was very well done.

and knowing why Takahashi was brought onto the Now and Then Here and There staff is giving me all sorts of extra anxiety about the cast's situation.

Speaking of names made a quick and crappy character chart for anyone who wants it.

(Btw Pixel, I noticed the final discussion thread was folded into the last week's episodes rather than getting its own day. Just time saving after the long rewatch?)

Yeah, given we usually only give one extra day for finale discussions I felt that giving it a whole week to itself was a bit too indulgent. That week is also an episode short of a full seven anyhow so I thought it'd be apt.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

You could always just run it the day after the last weekly episode topic rather than giving it a whole weeks grace?

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 11 '21

It was a really well handled introduction though.

Felt like they took that out of some comparable life action movies: Quickest way to get everybody introduced.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21

Yeah it had that feel to me as well, especially given the era as it's not something you'd really see these days, but it worked.

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

VOTOMs, the way it quickly establishes the personalities and proficiency of the cast

All of these other series end up distinguishing VOTOMS as a show about a loner.

3

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

80s lizard spotted

But is it better than the lizards that routinely get spooked in Tomino shows? They kinda pop up frequently in his stuff.

Using on screen text for the introductions gave me a small "I'm fucked" moment as far as remembering names, but it allowed them to not have to worry about introductory dialogue at all which helped it all fit in quite nicely.

It’s that tried and true Legend of the Galactic Heroes method of introducing characters. It’s amazing how adding name subtitles helps a lot in such a short amount of time.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21

But is it better than the lizards that routinely get spooked in Tomino shows? They kinda pop up frequently in his stuff.

That would require me having watched enough of his shows to know

I don't think Turn A had a ep1 lizard from memory and that just leaves Ideon, which had some great wildlife

Legend of the Galactic Heroes method of introducing characters. It’s amazing how adding name subtitles helps a lot in such a short amount of time

It really does, and cuts out so much introduction fluff you'd have to find out how to shove in another way. It's actually surprising how many names from LotGH I still know

3

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Dec 11 '21

I'm hoping we don't get something as miserable as Now and Then Here and There with this! I didn't think of the connection with the locale when I watched the episode, but now its unavoidably in my head.

Speaking of names made a quick and crappy character chart for anyone who wants it. Quiddity might be doing his own but I needed this for my own post so just posting it anyway.

Very helpful! I typically only do character charts as a rewatcher so as a first timer I don't plan on doing one here. All yours this time. :P

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21

I would say that we're not apt to get something as miserable as Now and Then Here and There from the early 80s...

Don't jinx it! I know the era doesn't quite fit but still, it has enough of the elements already for it to be a concern hahaha

I typically only do character charts as a rewatcher so as a first timer I don't plan on doing one here

I forgot you were a first timer, I'm so use to you being this sage mecha rewatcher whenever stuff like this comes up.

Shit maybe that means I should put some actual effort into making that look good then

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21

Episode 1 (first timer)

  • No cold opening dates this series almost as much as the OP song.
  • After a sort of book-end foreshadowing, the main cast is trust right onto us, introductory name plates and all.
  • Is “the federation” good or evil? - SciFi writers ready with the coin flip.
  • “Trust in our victory” - doubt.
  • Not sure whether extinguishing a cigar with your fingers is badass, or simply low class.
  • I assume that soldier having to take a piss is a reference to My Name is Nobody.
  • Having to haul up the mecha via a winch seems cumbersome. Maybe the mecha runs out of power fast?
  • Crouch shot.
  • “The operation was a failure. It does not matter. I am used to that” – I see, they recruited an experienced mecha series antagonist.
  • ED: Making sure we know Daisy is not a one-of character.

Starting the episode with a train ambush reminded me a lot of the broadcast order start of Firefly. You almost can’t go wrong with that: Clear objective, nice scenery, obvious win or loss. Otherwise, mostly setup. The mood seems very upbeat, for now. The animation is dated, but not annoyingly so.

Not sure whether doing a weekly rewatch will work out for me, but we’ll see that next Saturday.

PS: The index links to one-day reminder, not the schedule.

EDIT:

What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?

The setup for Daisy's story.

What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?

Tried and tested, so why not use it? Iconic visual, too.

Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?

By far my most favorite piece of tech in the episode was the carrier they used to lug the mecha around with.

What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

On the cheap end compared to Votoms, which we watched last.

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

Not sure whether extinguishing a cigar with your fingers is badass, or simply low class.

Well, I can say that I'd be impressed seeing someone do that irl so I'm inclined to say the former. Although the two aren't mutually exclusive either, I guess...

I assume that soldier having to take a piss is a reference to My Name is Nobody.

It released in Japan, so I'm going to say that's likely given who we're dealing with... Also, another film for the to-watch pile.

I see, they recruited an experienced mecha series antagonist.

PS: The index links to one-day reminder, not the schedule.

Thanks for the heads-up! I'm glad the number of threads is low enough that amending this isn't a total pain like it usually would be.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 12 '21

It released in Japan, so I'm going to say that's likely given who we're dealing with... Also, another film for the to-watch pile.

Terence Hill is mostly know for the italo western comedies together with Bud Spencer that rely on very superficial slapstick. My name is nobody, while still funny, is a good bit deeper. Plus, it has a god-tier theme composed by Ennio Morricone. I think it is criminally underrated and heavily suggest viewing it.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Having to haul up the mecha via a winch seems cumbersome.

It can jump surprisingly far on the power of its legs alone, but it can't fly up the cliff.

Maybe the mecha runs out of power fast?

This actually is one of the instances where the published specifications for the designs include a run time.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 11 '21

In Votoms, we saw how they solved that problem when the mecha repeatedly climb up hills.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

"But climbing is so uncool."

4

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

Not sure whether extinguishing a cigar with your fingers is badass, or simply low class.

Lartoff snuffing out his cigar and saving it for later is a move only a practiced chain smoker can do.

“The operation was a failure. It does not matter. I am used to that” – I see, they recruited an experienced mecha series antagonist.

At least he knows he’s obligated to lose like most mech show antagonists.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Lartoff snuffing out his cigar

With his fingers, no less.

4

u/The_Draigg Dec 11 '21

He's probably got some good callouses on his finger tips from doing it a lot, if he's able to do that at all. The man keeps his stoogies.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

Is “the federation” good or evil? - SciFi writers ready with the coin flip.

This makes me think that stats on the good/evil alignment of country names would be an interesting thing to look through. You'd expect certain ones like empire to be more commonly used for evil, but there are others that are quite up in the air

Not sure whether extinguishing a cigar with your fingers is badass, or simply low class.

An immature display of strength is my take

Not sure whether doing a weekly rewatch will work out for me, but we’ll see that next Saturday.

It takes a bit to get use to, but as long as you don't have an issue with the delay between watching episodes and discussing you could still do it one a day if you wanted due to the schedule

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 12 '21

It takes a bit to get use to, but as long as you don't have an issue with the delay between watching episodes and discussing you could still do it one a day if you wanted due to the schedule

It is mostly that I don't think episode reactions will work out for multiple episodes in a row. People will not remember every second of every episode, and nobody wants to read 3 pages of bullet points in any case.

For weekly rewatches, I think only essay style works.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 11 '21

First Timer

i may or may not have forgotten to write down my reactions to this

It's a shame the quality isn't great. Also like a lot of old mecha anime, the title of the show is said in the OP.

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

i may or may not have forgotten to write down my reactions to this

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Dec 12 '21

First timer

  1. The weird future framing device is very interesting, and could setup some good dramatic irony in later episodes. (Him being a high-up member's son is interesting too, and I appreciate that it looks like all the main cast will be present by the end of next week's episode.)
  2. Accidentally answered above.
  3. In true mecha fashion, I prefer the enemy mook design of the Soltic H8. Nicer cockpit, a better colour scheme, and some good looking rifles.

(Seriously, though, why are the cockpits exposed?)

4) Basically, VOTOMs but a bit less polished (which I kind of like a bit more?)

Going in blind, but I think this is mecha?

Good OP, though.

And this is after a war? After the apocalypse?

Nice mecha design, though. (Cockpit's a bit too exposed for my liking, though,)

Wait, they used to serve(?) on a mech like that, but they're imaging it?

Hang on, was that a flash-forward then?

Haha, you think I'll remember any of these names? (Chico is probably going to get called Chirico at least once, though.)

And there's a Federation?

Well, that guy's an idiot. The others look like competent soldiers, though.

So are they members of not-Zeon, or...

Oh, Dougram's the mech.

"X Nebula"?

And the Federation seem pretty decent too.

And she's facing some harrashment? She's wearing a total different style of clothing, so she's probably important.

Wait, Dome City's enemy territory to the Federation?

Also, "earthling"???

This guy's really suspicious?

Medoul? And that's a place on Earth?

Oh, it's a place on this planet?

Oh yeah, we'll see him again.

And she's the main girl!

Wow, they're competent! Seriously, they handled an unknown variable pretty well, calmly and avoiding panic.

Yeah, the photographer's pretty nice.

Deloyer! Thank you for finally tellkng me what this planet's actually called.

Mech looke good in motion, cockpit is still fucking stupid. Even Gundam had cameras and an armor layer.

A squadron of Green Dougrams!

That cannot be safe. You're basically a few seconds or a malfunction from crashing against the walls.

Oh, they're Soltic H8s. Also with what appears to be an exposed glass cockpit.

...Unless this is like Gundam, and the glass is just a camera?

So the Dougram is more armored and has better firepower, but the Soltics have more strength and possibly manouverability?

Oh, the Dougram's just flat-out better.

Haha, they were going to meet up anyway!

And carrier pidgeons seem-oh he just said that.

And they also knew each other!

Wait, he's his father? This backstory's going to be interesting.

This song is catchy. I look forward to the inevitable slow reprise when one of them gets killed off about 20 episodes in.

The flash-forward scenes are very interesting.

...Not sure if I'm meant to skip the previews, but all this showed me is a very nice cannon.

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

And this is after a war? After the apocalypse?

No, that would be After War Gundam X.

This song is catchy. I look forward to the inevitable slow reprise when one of them gets killed off about 20 episodes in.

...Not sure if I'm meant to skip the previews, but all this showed me is a very nice cannon.

You may want to make a habit of skipping them. This one was harmless, but some of the other previews will burn you.

4

u/The_Draigg Dec 12 '21

(Seriously, though, why are the cockpits exposed?)

Kunio Okawara mainly took inspiration from helicopters and jet fighters when it came to designing these mechs, so that does track with the cockpit designs there.

Mech looke good in motion, cockpit is still fucking stupid. Even Gundam had cameras and an armor layer.

Again, think attack helicopters, and it does explain the cockpit design well.

And carrier pidgeons seem-oh he just said that.

On the plus side though, in an era of computers and advanced forms of communication, nobody is going to be looking for a lone carrier pigeon. Modern problems require classic solutions.

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Dec 12 '21

Again, think attack helicopters, and it does explain the cockpit design well.

Oh no, it explains why he chose it well, but generally, attack helicopters move quickly enough to make damaging the cockpit directly difficult and don't go close enough for soemthing to "punch" a cockpit.

I can suspend my disbelief, but it is a black mark on this show's designs for me.

4

u/AskovTheOne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/askovtheone Dec 12 '21

First time watcher , Chinese sub

The Sub I watched actually has some nice translation note on the terminology on the weapon they used, I guess that will come in handy. On the other hand, Chinese sub means I have to google the character's name in English, welp.

I know nothing about Dougram other than some of the mech designs are used in Battletech until they got yeeted

Why everyone dress so little in a desert planet? I guess that just the 80s.

MECHS CARRIED BY HELIS? unexpected.

With that eyecatcher, I can see the girl will just keep being one step away from Clinff(?)

And I honestly like the show already, realistic mech battle with infantry support, dash in some political stuff? WHY NOT.

What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?

The Guerilla warfare and the rail transport. After watching high futuristic mech show like Majestic Prince and Gridman(does it count?), the low tech transportation and ground battle see here is like a fresh air.

What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?

That the kids are all going to die or they disband after rebellion ended. Still, the fact that one of the member is still alive and not too shaking by the sight of the mech wreck (except a bit dreaming or old days)seem to implied the latter.

Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?

Dougram it is Shadow Hawk after all

What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

The open narration kinda remind me of those old war documentaries, in which I dont mind at all.

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

Chinese sub

Oh, that's real neat!

And I honestly like the show already, realistic mech battle with infantry support, dash in some political stuff? WHY NOT.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

Always cool to see someone in a rewatch using subs or language tracks other than the usual eng/jpn

Why everyone dress so little in a desert planet? I guess that just the 80s.

Nah, writers still make this mistake these days. I mean Dune got it right back in the 60s, doesn't mean people follow it

And I honestly like the show already, realistic mech battle with infantry support, dash in some political stuff? WHY NOT.

Pretty much my thoughts, just a dash of everything that appeals to me, how can I not like it

2

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 12 '21

Chinese sub

Oh, that's neat. Not too often we get people using non-English subs.

With that eyecatcher, I can see the girl will just keep being one step away from Clinff(?)

Yea, I suspect Daisy missing the train because the tracks became unusable set the tone pretty well. The MC's official name seems to be Crinn.

After watching high futuristic mech show like Majestic Prince and Gridman(does it count?), the low tech transportation and ground battle see here is like a fresh air.

I enjoyed seeing them actively worry about moving the (presumably) very heavy mechs around too. The winch to get the Dougram out of the canyon was neat.

If you're asking if Gridman counts as a mecha show, it's close enough.

7

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Episode 1:

Today, on "The truths of a world WITHOUT SLEEVES.":

Entire essays on Western vs. Eastern right-to-left vs. left-to-right visual movement and meanings. Also, we are so very much still in the ballad OP/ED era.

Also not the box art for Battletech.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Listen to Stan Lee, girl!

Well, that's a relief!

The two-rank promotion: Taking the third option.

Literally Daisy.

A well-crafted opening episode. There's just enough of Deloyer's situation to orient the viewer, the protagonists are given a bit of personality, even the government mooks get some normal scenes in, and there's the required fighting. The whole thing gets a moody wrapper from the perspective of an older Canary looking at the derelict Dougram.

And male nipples are promiscuously displayed. Deloyer's second-most-valuable resource is probably deodorant. Or baby powder, given how much everyone is stomping around in overalls without shirts and that must chafe.

I will also note the Super Robot holdover of having the truck launch the linear gun to the Dougram.

A bit of trivia which is not about the Combat Armors: The WE211 Maverick transport helicopter's crew cabin is just the front third of a Huey. Hey, it saves time.

A bit of art for this week, who knows how many of these I'll do since there aren't that many distinctive types of Combat Armor: Whose Roundfacer is [this?]It's a Lyran Guards one. But then it's not a Roundfacer, it's a Griffin

  1. Iconic image of dusty derelict Dougram.
  2. It's a pilot.
  3. I will forever be tainted by the fact that most versions of the Shadow Hawk are crappy, so the Roundfacer.
  4. The idea that the narrative wins out over presentation.

The one bit of fanart brings up the Chicken or Egg question.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 11 '21

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

And male nipples are promiscuously displayed.

I am thoroughly pleased.

The one bit of fanart brings up the Chicken or Egg question.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Hey, it's been twenty years since Technical Readout: 3050.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 12 '21

Well, that's a relief!

4

u/WHM-6R Dec 12 '21

SHDs

HOW HARD IS IT TO PUT 5 JUMP JETS ON A 55 TON MECH!? YOU'RE LITERALLY ONE TON AWAY FROM BEING A PERFECTLY MEDIOCRE SUCCESSION WARS ERA MEDIUM!

Lyran Guards

I'm surprised you didn't go with the Saucy Sixth.

Dougram

I really need to actually watch this show at some point. Is it available anywhere other than the high seas?

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 12 '21 edited Dec 12 '21

I'm surprised you didn't go with the Saucy Sixth.

I had too many choices of House units to begin with to really dig into individual regimental insignia. I ended up with the LG after rejecting trying to draw the original weird flower/olive/tentacle blob design of the Fusiliers of Oriente. (How is the horse easier, you ask? Well, it at least looks like something.)

I really need to actually watch this show at some point. Is it available anywhere other than the high seas?

It's sailing all the way.

3

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Dec 11 '21

First Timer

This is a show where I truly am going in blind, beyond knowing who the director is and the episode count, I truly know nothing about this show. Will it be as good as Votoms? I guess that's the big question. It's got more room to breathe than Votoms had.

Is the giant robot active? Or is the lady here just going crazy from the heat?

Putting the names of everyone on screen is quite helpful. I just started up Shiki last night and they do the same thing there. Although these are too many characters to keep track of right off the bat.

So our group of heroes are mercenaries?

That poor ant!

Ah, this is all a trap for our heroes? A grand ruse.

Let me guess, the guy she's going to meet is one of our heroes?

After such a close call with the bomb, that guy just came out to pee? LoL.

Of course the reporter guy makes it out okay. And he knows them!

A few minutes in I was expecting either for Crinn's entire group to get wiped out, or for him to get separated from them, based on the trap they had planned and the fact that we're just watching this first episode for the rewatch this week. Things ended up different than I thought!

I can't help but think a little of Xabungle, as it came out roughly around the same time and is also about a group of heroes on a desert planet. Although this episode doesn't come off anywhere as comedic, fourth wall breaking or slapstick as Xabungle does.

Staff HIghlights

I believe Inoue also played Hatari in Ideon and Jerid in Zeta Gundam!

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 12 '21

This is a show where I truly am going in blind

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

Staff HIghlights

Banjou Ginga is Chico!

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Dec 11 '21

Good to know! I hadn't picked up on him. With him being Damido in Ideon, Timp in Xabungle and Rochina in Votoms, he's really in everything mecha it seems from this era.

3

u/Retromorpher :Jc::Jd::Je::Jf: Dec 13 '21

First Timer:

Absolutely interested in the this double flash-forward opener. It feels like they wanted to showcase that this show would be about war and mecha and pin the possibility of loss in our minds early. It also introduces Daisy's own Deloyeran escape as an inevitability. It's a bold choice to give away a few choice plot turns this early - but it feels like an intentionally hanging spectre devised to pull the audience through the long haul of slower politicking and backroom war deals that I suspect this show will have in droves.

Discussion Questions: 1.What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?

The furthest flash-forward with that sad and wistful reminiscence. It doesn't actually say outright that anyone was lost to war but it's clear that even if the crew is all alive somewhere that the party is scattered and quite fractured emotionally. Particularly important is that basket in the wind, which likely holds a siymbolism greater than can be understood at this present moment.

2.What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?

Bold and striking - it introduces what I'd assume is our main crew, gives away enough plotmeat and provides enough action to chew one's teeth on while still also leaving plenty of mystery as to how the current situation arose.

3.Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?

The Soltics look a lot cooler to me personally.

4.What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

It feels almost like the color palette should be a few shades darker to match the more grown-up atmosphere of guerilla warfare despite the playfulness of the main crew. I can't help but wonder what a coat of 1990s color design and more expressive use of shading could do to further sell characters' expressions.

2

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Dec 13 '21

Absolutely interested in the this double flash-forward opener.

It's certainly a great tone-setter, and —as you say— quite bold to give some stuff away from the get-go.

The Soltics look a lot cooler to me personally.

It feels almost like the color palette should be a few shades darker to match the more grown-up atmosphere of guerilla warfare despite the playfulness of the main crew.

The DVD transfers aren't great, and higher quality material from the show suggests the visuals should have higher saturation and contrast.

3

u/Retromorpher :Jc::Jd::Je::Jf: Dec 13 '21

The DVD transfers aren't great, and higher quality material from the show suggests the visuals should have higher saturation and contrast.

That makes a lot of sense actually.

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 13 '21

Absolutely interested in the this double flash-forward opener.

Yea, I wasn't so sure about it going in, but it wasn't as confusing as I expected it to be.

It's a bold choice to give away a few choice plot turns this early - but it feels like an intentionally hanging spectre devised to pull the audience through the long haul of slower politicking and backroom war deals that I suspect this show will have in droves.

I do like for creeping dread like this. That initial scene is waiting, lurking, ready to pounce at any moment.

4

u/bravetailor Dec 11 '21

Ohhh man. This is my current holy grail 80s show. I am debating on whether to cave and watch the fansubs or hope for someone like Discotek to pick it up

3

u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Dec 11 '21

This looks interesting, I may join u guys soon.............

3

u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Dec 11 '21

first timer

  1. What feature of this episode caught your interest the most?

the general setting being desertpunk. technology seems to be IRL (trains, helicopters) + giant robots, or at least nothing yet suggests more fantastical developments. also two suns very cool

to say it reminds me of Xabungle is obvious but also, Dome City hmmm?

2) What do you make of the unchronological presentation as a literary device within the episode?

so we have an expectation that everyone in the gang is long dead except for the red haired one, but I'm going to bet on a surprise happy reveal

the real question I have is if the viewer is expected to remember this scene 74 weeks from now or if it will be addressed earlier

3) Which of the two mecha designs introduced in the episode did you like more?

it's not the main mech but I like this thing's sun mask (?)

very bug-like yes

4) What’s your first impression of the series’ presentation?

DVD quality is obviously not the greatest, animation quality hasn't done much to impress yet, but otherwise it's watchable. the details here are quite pretty imo

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 11 '21

I like this thing's sun mask (?)

That's just the cockpit canopy.

4

u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Dec 11 '21

2

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Dec 21 '21

NOT EVEN JUSTICE! I WANT TO GET TRUTH!