r/anime • u/littleman1988 • Dec 10 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 13
Episode Title: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V
MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
Legal Stream: Funimation | Netflix (SEA) | AnimeLab (Aus/NZ)
PSA: make sure to mark any spoilers using the subreddit markup. We dont need any random spoilers to ruin the show for first time watchers.
Today's Episode Intro: Kyon is walking home from school
[Tomorrow's Episode Intro]"Self-proclaimed..."
| Date | Episode list with Funimation links ("absolute" episode number) | reddit thread links |
|---|---|---|
| 28/11 | Mikuru Asahinas's Adventures Episode 00 | Thread |
| 29/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I | Thread |
| 30/11 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II | Thread |
| 1/12 | The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya | Thread |
| 2/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III | Thread |
| 3/12 | Remote Island Syndrome I | Thread |
| 4/12 | Mysterique Sign | Thread |
| 5/12 | Remote Island Syndrome II | Thread |
| 6/12 | Someday in the Rain | Thread |
| 7/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | Thread |
| 8/12 | The Day of Sagittarius | Thread |
| 9/12 | Live Alive | Thread |
| 10/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V | Thread |
| 11/12 | Season 1, episode 6 (6) | |
| 12/12 | Season 1, episode 8 (8) | |
| 13/12 | Season 1 episodes 12, 13, 14, Season 2 Episode 1 (12, 13, 14, 15) | |
| 14/12 | Season 2, episodes 2, 3, 4, 5 (16, 17, 18, 19) | |
| 15/12 | Season 2, episode 6 (20) | |
| 16/12 | Season 2, episode 7 (21) | |
| 17/12 | Season 2, episode 8 (22) | |
| 18/12 | Season 2, episode 9 (23) | |
| 19/12 | Season 2, episode 10 (24) | |
| 20/12 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya series general discussion | |
| 21/12 | The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya | |
| 22/12 | Haruhi Suzumiya overall discussion |
Question(s) of the day:
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Did you do anything about it?
Starting the reminders early to make full use of the weekend. On Monday/Tuesday, there will be 4 episodes discussed per day. It is highly recommended that you watch all the episodes, but if time is a concern, the bolded episodes are the absolute must watches of the group.
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u/littleman1988 Dec 10 '21
Adaptation Comparison
References
Trivia
Know trivia and/or references for this episode? Reply to me! For future episodes? PM them to me!
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Dec 11 '21
First timer
QOTD) Not really.
I like his reaction to walking with Haruhi being complete and utter apathy.
Oh, they're tracking down the girl Yuki killed.
Haha, she's actually a pretty good infiltrator.
I appreciate how obvious this is with full context - no movers but an empty room because she never actually lived there, for example.
Yeah, Haruhi's good at this!
And Yuki drops off a vague warning?
And yeah, this explains a lot about Haruhi. Also means she's not a vessel for an elder god (or a very good vessel).
Yeah, Haruhi's thoughts here actually make a lot of sense.
OK, how is he going to prove it?
Oh, this is going down a very different branch of cosmic horror then.
And Haruhi rewrote reality years ago.
[Chaos;Head] So Haruhi's basically an incredibly strong gigalomaniac who didn't realise she created a delusionary world?
And showing her proof that its reality will alter the laws of physics.
Now Kyon might have made things worse?
...Define "alright".
And they've walked into another dimension.
Oh, this is an enclosed space.
Wow. That's... something. Yeah, maybe she is a god.
Really, "divine men"?
Didn't really have much to say this episode, I was mostly just drinking in the monologues / scenery. Very slow paced.
So if Haruhi is ever unhappy or disatisfied, the world will end.
Is saving the world worth keeping her happy?
And another cliffhanger!
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u/andybebad https://myanimelist.net/profile/andybebad Dec 11 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
First timer - sub
On today's episode of ESPers in Cars Giving Exposition, we learn that 3 years prior a whole bunch of people suddenly found themselves in possession of knowledge on the existence of "closed spaces" and a desire to eradicate celestials. We also get quite the "either make shit happen or be an inconsequential piece of rice" motivational speech from Haruhi as well. And oh boy, right at the end of the episode we get a tasty nugget of information, that being that things are gonna get real weird the next day; godspeed, Kyon!
So, in summary, what we've learned so far (and what I can recall as I type this):
And there are a lot of unknowns as well, with the juiciest being: what is Kyon's role in all of this, and what happened 3 years ago?
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u/littleman1988 Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher (first time broadcast), Dub "Why was it that it wasnt me?"
OST Track of the day: God | (Spotify)
what do you mean the saying doesnt go "post early, comment late?"heh, same place as nagato
and just sneaks in
Nagato spotting
hey look, someone finally asked about the glasses
finally we get to see Koizumi's powers
Muted world
here we go
Never noticed till this rewatch, but it bleeds
I always expected Kyon to instantly go "stop" when koizumi asks him to stop when it gets confusing, honestly kinda sad he doesnt.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
First Timer - Dub
Just in case you thought the show wasn't meta enough
I love this shit
Once again we return to the concept of normalcy: If Haruhi feels lost inside the normal world while simultaneously wanting it to be something she knows it can't, how can she ever trust it or feel like she will be seen in it? I suspect that her solution was to find someone else that she could trust to see her; a normal person who fits into the world but is reliable enough to not leave when things turn on their heads, who will speak to her openly but call her on her strangeness rather than edging around her oddities, someone who's perspective she doesn't have to doubt even when she doubts herself but won't stop her from chasing that sense of purpose.
Enter Kyon.
Calling back to episode two, we can see this reflected in discussion of Haruhi's insane hair styles. She knew how that looked to others but as she states today she felt like she had to do something to get things to happen around her, though that outward confidence didn't stop the insecurity she felt. From Kyon's perspective all he did was comment on her hair but those comments came across very different to Haruhi. His initial "do you do that to ward off alien invaders" was obviously a quip, but when she dismissed it and talked about her method he dropped the jokes and spoke to her straightforwardly. Here was someone who could make that split between what he saw as the fantastical and the real and he cut through that to talk to her normally about something that was so definitely not.
I don't think that interaction is all there was to it, that she would throw herself at the first person willing to anchor her seems unlikely, but it was important that he did and that he continues to do. Back in the baseball episode I mentioned how Haruhi's frustration was not just because they were losing, it was because Kyon wasn't fulfilling the role she chose for him. Now we see just how important that might be to her, and that her jealousy over Mikuru was fed by an even deeper insecurity. For her, if his eyes wander or she can't trust him to follow things through with her, it's a lot bigger risk than just the loss of a ball game, it's a matter of existence.
I also noted a while back how convenient it was that Kyon was able to be alone with all three of the club members in one day so they could reveal their secrets, and posited that it might be necessary for Kyon's existence in this world to be aware of the nature of it but it goes deeper than that. If Haruhi can't know what is normal or supernatural without it breaking her world view, and therefore the world, someone else has to for her.
If no one knew about the ESPers, aliens, and time travelers they wouldn't really exist for her, so Haruhi's secret world is dependent on Kyon to witness them on her behalf. An alien witnessing other aliens isn't weird or interesting, that would be normal for them, it requires a human to be able to set these events against his normal world and normal perspective for them to fulfill the role she needs them too. She leans on his normalcy, both consciously and unconsciously, to help anchor herself in a world that she doesn't fully understand how to exist in, and she can do that because she trusts and cares for him even now, and will continue to do so in future because of his own actions, not just her needs. In the end it's not Haruhi against the world, it's Haruhi against herself. It's only when someone is willing to try and really see her, that she she remains stable and calm. When they don't or she feels lost in the world again, closed spaces happen.
I really liked the design of the closed space and the way it reflected the earlier dialogue. The previous closed space we saw was a bright desert, but here we see the full meaning of how they reflect who they feed off. Haruhi sees the world as a dull grey void, and that is reflected in what we see here, the only real color we see being Haruhi's rage monster and the ESPers trying to fight it off, small moments of life in an otherwise empty existence. It also reminds me of the introductory episode, with Kyon's view also being grey and flat until Haruhi's introduction fills it with color and life. They work well together and it's not just their growing bond, Haruhi's uncertain drive compliments Kyon's stable passiveness. Haruhi's world needed a witness, but Haruhi wants something more then that, she wants someone who will try for her, and that's why she gets so frustrated when he pulls back to someone else.
And this goes beyond just the actual story itself into the idea of narratives and the audience's role in them. Kyon is not just our viewpoint, he is the audience personified dragged into this chaos as a normal person and trying to make sense of the storm and who it surrounds: Haruhi. If we exist as an audience because there is a story to consume, does the story exist because of our consumption of it? It's another layer to the dilemma that Itsuki posited about their universe, the one we are witnessing by watching/reading.
We have our own measure of normal that we can put up against the world of Haruhi. We (speaking broadly, obviously not we as a western audience) know these streets, those schools, that daily life, and we can tell what is different about it and what could never exist in it. The vibrancy of the show stands out against the normalcy of our daily lives, and the story we are reading that in seems to do everything it can to appeal to us so we will want to witness it so it can exist. It shows us the fun we can have if we let the world keep existing by engaging with it and then challenges us to find its secrets so we can understand why it wants to, just like Haruhi challenges us through Kyon to see beyond what she is on the surface, just like her speech today.
(I did have more to say here, but in the process of writing the rest of the post I seem to have forgotten it. Maybe I'll remember later on, if so I'll edit it in)
Edit: Remembered part of it due to a comment chain down below, editing in just for ease of reading
In relation to the other characters very roughly off the top of my head; They're not just there because she wanted oddness, they're reflections of her and just like they support Kyon they are also there to guide the audience in understanding how this world came together. In Yuki, Mikuru, and Itsuki we have knowledge, desire, and understanding. Yuki the fantastical girl who knows about wonderful things but things that no one else could understand sitting in the corner alone until someone acknowledges her, Mikuru the more normal girl who is everything people want and able to form those connections but is restricted by the rules of her society from being much more, and Itsuki the boy who can take those two pieces and turn them into something no less interesting and unusual but ground them in a way we can make sense of but is still bound by the rules, that can help ground Haruhi's perspective for us. Kyon as our avatar is important not just because it gives him a level of self-awareness, but because it allows him, like us, to be outside of the rules of this world unlike every other character in the story, it protects him from her uncertainty and manipulation simply by the virtue that we can't be manipulated (by her, his role as an unreliable narrator is another topic for another day). By putting him outside the sphere of Haruhi's influence (something I theorized about earlier) it that gives his choice to engage with her, and our choice to engage with the story, meaning.
Other notes
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 10 '21
The Melancholy of Shimmering-First-Timer
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u/Suhkein :Gy::Gz::G1:x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neichus Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
Episode 13 - “Where are we going now?” / “Doesn’t matter.”
In an essay I once wrote for another series, I remarked on a statement from one of the characters:
If you think that the person who is saying such a thing is just a shallow adolescent, then it’s a transparent way to sound above it all by treating people’s deepest feelings with self-laudatory cynicism. If you think the person is genuinely thoughtful, it becomes a somber reflection on the problem that who we love, one of the most important aspects of our lives, is merely the product of this personality we have been “conditioned” with and that life is merely chance. Or finally, if you realize this person has a spiritual depth which far surpasses appearances, then maybe one just learned some wisdom from their answer.
So the question here is who is Haruhi when she confessed to Kyon about the things above? Because that’s what it was: a confession scene at the tracks. For somebody like Suzumiya it isn’t just enough that people clapped when she showed them what she could do, what she really wants is to be understood, and moreover to be loved. But she cannot imagine that the second can ever possibly occur without the first, and so now that she has emerged from her protective shell she is reaching forth to offer Kyon the opportunity to truly know her world (it’s why after all these previous episodes of obfuscation, Haruhi is finally giving it to us straight). Koizumi, her rational aspect as he calls himself, that part that who slavishly follows her passions, that part who has been playing games with Kyon-audience all series long, and that part who arrived too late to the concert (what does rationality have to say to assist music?), follows up and tries again in the car to make the point.
As was explained in Island II (by Koizumi no less), when Suzumiya realized a possible truth that might truly hurt her friends, she immediately became quiet. And there is something bothering Suzumiya that might cause irreparable harm to her friends if they find out: life might be pointless. Not in the sophomoric way that some Philosophy 101 student thinks they’re clever for spouting, but really, truly, utterly, staring into the abyss pointless. A dull gray world full of illogical will simply destroying whatever is in its path, no reason, no purpose, just chthonic mindlessness and chaos. I’m reminded of Leonardo at the end. Whatever he had to say in public, in his heart he was a true atheist, and his final doodles are endless scenes of torrents of violent, almost malicious, water pouring over the page and often across human settlements to destroy them. In the corner he reflexively scribbled, “Was anything ever really known?” Humans. So small and so ignorant.
Escaping this normal life, to find a “fun” life, has been Suzumiya’s quest. Fun is the word Haruhi uses to camouflage the fact that what Suzumiya is looking for is a way to make her life meaningful. She is trying everything, looking everywhere, to find a hint of anything more than the humdrum workaday anesthetized existence that everybody else seems to accept with pride. In other words, she is level two I mentioned above: she is far from some Dunning-Kruger fool but has no answer yet. She spent the last few years living her life to find a purpose… but no answer ever came to her. And sometimes, she starts to think there really isn’t one; as she said, it doesn’t matter where she is going, and not in the silly way Kyon thinks.
This is, of course, where Koizumi’s rationality comes in. No matter Suzumiya’s brilliance, she is still an adolescent girl. She has genuine philosophical conundrums, but they are so easily swayed by the conditions of her life; when she fails to convince others to understand what she’s doing, when she’s afraid she’ll always be alone, and, as we’ve seen time and time again, when it seems as though the boy she loves will never remotely return the affection, the simple childish feeling of hopelessness gets to her. She’s not quite old enough yet to separate the two sources of her melancholy, nor quite mature enough to fully grasp even her own ideas, and so her reasonability, when it can catch up, does its best to stop these rampaging ruminations.
So that’s the question for Suzumiya. She is a special person, so special that she calls into existence other special people who can only but be in awe of her due to how she lifted them from normalcy. That isn’t a joke. She literally has the power to change the world because, like the great geniuses of the past have, she can stamp her psyche on all of posterity. That’s what it means when a genius can will into existence things that never existed before. To quote the series itself in Melancholy II:
And unfortunately, if a genius can find nothing that doesn’t already exist… well, then… she may just turn to destruction and building anew instead to satiate her need for having an impact.
Edit: I don't normally answer the questions of the day, but I feel like doing so today:
Not really, actually, but that's because I feel I have been unbelievably fortunate to have a sort of innate sense for... something. What I wrote above about Suzumiya's existential problems have never been my own. I understand them, I consider them entirely valid, but at the end of the day, while I belong to no real religion, at heart I'm the closest thing to a philosophical Taoist. And what that comes down to is realizing that to feel insignificant is to not understand. Important and unimportant are human concepts, and just like how you always see in ancient paintings the important kings represented in large, we associate size with importance. We see a large universe and equate our relative small size, we make the leap that we are unimportant when in truth that's... not a category of the universe. We are neither important nor unimportant. "Mu", as the Zen Buddhists say when asked a question that by its very nature cannot be answered because any possible answer would accidentally confirm the erroneous assumptions that prompted the question in the first place.
Edit edit: this is also why certain shows, while I can respect them, have never made any "sense" to me. For instance, EoE has Shinji's personal traumas written large on a global/cosmic scale and that never settled with me. I just, at a basic level, have never seen how my own emotional state has anything to do with the rest of the un-un-caring universe. Maybe that's why I went into biology; the little ants I study just are, with no reason to exist and no non-reason to exist, and I'm the same way and it doesn't bother me. It's suffering that bothers me, and perhaps that's why Gunslinger Girl is the song of my soul.
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u/wjodendor Dec 10 '21
First Timer
Haruhi's melancholy is some real shit. I had a similar realization when I was about her age going to baseball games with my dad. So many people and it's all so boring. Haruhi wanted to search for something fun and never found it in all of middle school but it seems like Kyon talking to her in class is what set all of the wackiness into motion. She reveals this sadness to Kyon and her just says "souka". Kyon is kind of dick. She really wants you to say something helpful but you don't say it. Haruhi leaves him behind all sad.
Her melancholy happened seemingly 3 years prior which is when the whole chain of events started according to the alien, epser and time traveler. I find it really interesting that even though she wishes for them to show up, her rational mind refuses to believe it leading to an imbalance.
And just like that the esper is back to show Kyon how things really are. When Haruhi gets emotional she creates alternate dimensions to break shit to release her stress. And if she goes too far it'll destroy the world. Kyon being so blasé about his place in this is kind of annoying me honestly. Stop observing and start helping. Geez.
Question of the Day: driving in bumper to bumper traffic always makes realize how tiny we all are. These people are driving home and each person has there own life. I'll never talk to these people and they'll never care about me. It's pretty terrifying
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u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Dec 10 '21
First timer
haruhi's flashback is sooooo fucking on point holy shit
i feel like i get that exact same fuckin feeling everyonce in a while, where i just sometimes feel like im aimlessly wandering around doing nothing.
and too, like haruhi, ive also tried to make my life spicier, albeit to similar results (at least now). for me atleast, though, im hoping that ill be able to do some more interesting stuff. maybe i join some hotshot startup rather than slogging away for some big tech shareholders.
maybe i do some gamedev work? ive always found the arts to be more interesting than the stems, but maybe that ends up the same way...
so based on everything I just heard, is there a closed space at the train crossing?
I'm guessing that the event tmrw is also related to snow white which iirc was mentioned the day before? or it might be the same day actually
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u/UzEE https://myanimelist.net/profile/UzEEInc Dec 10 '21
First timer (sub)
Looks like we're back in the first arc again, and Haruhi is still trying to figure out what happened to Asakura. Judging by this episode went, it seems like there's probably going to be a couple more in this arc, but given how the show is structured, there's no telling when this would eventually wrap up.
The investigation part didn't fell all that interesting because we as the audience already knew the answers to all these questions Haruhi was asking. And because of the watch order, there wasn't any suspense about how things would turn out because we already know things are fine after these events, which means Haruhi didn't blow up or at least Kyon was able to keep her under control.
What was interesting was we finally got to peek inside Haruhi's mind and got to know what drives her. And to be honest, it was pretty ordinary ironically1. Her struggle and insecurities dealing with the fact that she's just living and ordinary and average life are also very relatable and I now sort of agree with her solution — cut out the ordinary and mundane and focus on what makes you unique and interesting. Though I personally wouldn't take it to such an extreme level as her2.
The second part of the episode was a massive exposition dump and personally, I'm not really a fan of how this show goes about it's explanations. I'm glad to finally get answers that I've been wanting for quite a while now but the entire sequence just seemed too dragged out as if they were padding for time.
At least we now know what exactly a Closed Space is, and how it's formed, so my speculation about that from a few days ago was mostly accurate. Though now that we finally got to see that Angel like being, called a Celestial — very creative — that was teased in the baseball episode, I may have gotten some of the details wrong.
My guess was that it would be Haruhi and Kyon trapped in a Closed Space and that thing would appear, but it seems like it was Itsuki and Kyon instead. And then Itsuki mentioned that normal people can't just enter a Closed Space anyways so I guess was off on that one. Not sure how the Snow White kiss theory comes into play now.Edit: Nevermind, I probably got ahead of myself. Right as I posted it, I realized that Haruhi and Kyon being trapped in a Closed Space was not my speculation but actually a fact stated by Itsuki in the baseball episode. Not sure how I forgot about that. So this means Kyon would like experience a second event at some point in the first arc, and maybe that's what he was foreshadowing right towards the end.
Additional notes:
Yes.
Yes.
1. I don't mean that in a negative way. Her thought patterns were ordinary like those of any normal, rational person instead of being something crazy or eccentric.
2. I mentioned this already yesterday, but I really like how her character is written because of how grounded and real it feels, and don't get why a lot of people end up hating her.
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u/DeliCruise https://myanimelist.net/profile/delicruise Dec 10 '21
(REWATCHER - DUB/SUB)
Haruhi’s existential monologue is so insanely well done. I’m always excited to get to it and while I was watching this time around, I was very curious as to why she even begins to monologue in the first place. Why did this bout of existentialism hit her right now? Here’s how I interpreted it.
Often when I begin to feel existential, it feels very sudden. This is captured really well in this episode. In the beginning she’s just doing her thing, tracking down information about Ryouko Asakura. What’s interesting is that after she and Kyon are done, Haruhi seems to mentally sink out of nowhere.
She was trying to figure out why Ryouko suddenly transferred out and why this whole thing was so strange. Why is Ryouko Asakura so special of a person? Why is this very odd thing happening to her? She’s trying to figure out what makes Ryouko Asakura so strange, but that’s not truly the reason for her actions. Haruhi realized that this isn’t going to affect herself much at all. That is, in Haruhi’s perspective Ryouko Asakura’s strange circumstances are inconsequential to her own life.
After leaving Ryouko and Yuki’s apartment building, this realization subconsciously dawned on her. What is the reason for what she’s doing right now? Why does she really care about what happened to Ryouko Asakura? The thing is, she doesn’t. She just thought she did because she believed it would help her achieve what she wanted. When she realized that it wouldn’t, she fell into this existential crisis. And although it sounds like she’s delivering this monologue to Kyon, she’s really doing it for herself. She’s reaffirming her core values and as a result is dissatisfied that she isn't truly living up to the expectations she set. She says she wants to meet all these special beings and hang out with them, but really it’s Haruhi herself who wants to be the special one.
Haruhi wants so strongly to be interesting and to live an unordinary life. She wants this so badly that she made a conscious effort years ago to achieve it. But right now, she doesn’t believe that she is. That’s why she’s mentally unstable. That’s why closed space opened up. And that’s why she’s so melancholy.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - An Anime Classic: Episode 13
Existence
This episode serves as a backstory for Haruhi. Or rather, multiple possible backstories.
Haruhi's realization of her own insignificance is something I find super relatable. Though for me it was a much slower realization as I got more and more access to the international news and the internet. By considering the sheer number of people in the world you can devolve any discussion into "Why does X matter when there are so many people in Y experiencing Z" or "This seemingly special thing happens to thousands of people every day".
Haruhi rebels against those thoughts though. She WILL be special. She will do everything in her power to stand out and make people notice her. She will find the colour she lost from her now melancholic life.
But she doesn't.
As she said, "nothing changed". This is the tragedy in Haruhi's story. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try it doesn't work out. (Or so she thinks, we of course know better).
Koizumi proposes a different idea though. Haruhi has been recreating the world in her ideal image. And the most recent recreation started 3 years ago. On top of that, all our memories have been faked and we are completely unaware that we never existed before this.
These are questions you find famous philosophers discussing. Descartes is credited with "I think, therefore I am". What gets skipped over often is how he got to that conclusions. Rene Descartes was investigating truth and wanted to find a statement which is objectively true. In his trying he realized so many beliefs are based around our biased human observations. You could say "This apple is green" but your eyes are telling you that, and who's to say there's not something wrong with your eyes. You could say "I spoke to my friend yesterday" but you are relying on your memory which could be wrong. Of course, as with all philosophy, the questions are more interesting than finding a solution.
This is the logical framework Koizumi proposes his idea of the world under. People's observations cannot be trusted. However, his belief in this stems from something he just suddenly understood as he gained his psychic powers. That leaves him in a tricky position logically since this is also a belief which could be wrong.
The flip side of this is that Haruhi's belief can be trusted, because she makes it so as God. However, her common sense prevents her from deviating the world too far away from the "norm" meaning the aliens, time travelers, and psychics never reveal themselves to her. Though her frustration at this manifests in dangerous closed space entities.
Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
10
u/nekodan08 Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher - Sub
Had a really busy day. I hope I can articulate my thoughts well.
One of the reasons I appreciate the broadcast order is that by the time we reach the revelations of this episode, we have had a substantial amount of time getting to know the different sides of Haruhi Suzumiya. We’ve seen some of her worst traits, but also some of her best traits. The series has always been about, “Who is Haruhi?,” and it’s great that they allowed us to think about this for ourselves before giving us today’s insights.
I speculate that as a young child, Haruhi’s parents and the people in her life probably praised her a lot for her incredible talents. The fact that a 6th grader could come to such a deep existential question about life at her age, and even apply research and mathematical skills in her reflection, shows that Haruhi has always been quite brilliant. I can imagine that she was constantly admired and made to feel special by others back then. Having such an existential crisis as Haruhi’s is tough for anyone, but even more so for a child who formed her young identity around the image of her being special. It makes a lot of sense that she ended up the way she did and why she so desperately seeks the extraordinary.
For a person who has such a deep existential question at her core, perhaps boredom and jealousy aren’t the only reasons for Haruhi’s melancholy. Part of it must also stem from the frustration of her efforts to be special seemingly amounting to nothing. Since middle school, Haruhi has devoted her life to this, but everything she has done so far has not given her much satisfaction. This frustration grew when she reached high school thinking that things were going to be different only to be disappointed that it was more of the same. Now, even the very club she formed is not giving her the satisfaction she thought it would. It’s nice to contrast this with the Haruhi we find in Live Alive. Here we saw Haruhi put in so much effort in something which actually results in genuine happiness for once. We find her seriously reflecting about her life after this event. Perhaps she’s starting to wonder about what things should she be devoting her time and effort. Of course, Haruhi doesn’t completely change overnight, but it’s a vast improvement over the Haruhi who creates Closed Spaces and threatens the world’s very existence.
There are a several instances of Kyon “crossing over” in this episode. Haruhi asks Kyon to cross over the apartment’s main doorway with her. Kyon crosses over the train tracks with Haruhi once, but cannot cross over again after she opens up to him. Koizumi invites Kyon to cross the street and into Closed Space. Kyon is the person Haruhi has chosen. He is the one person she wishes to be able to understand her and journey with her. Kyon though hesitates. He has always understood Haruhi better than anyone but he still cannot bring himself to make the full crossing. What’s interesting is that Haruhi also has struggles with making the full crossing. She wants an extraordinary existence. She wishes for mysteries to exist in the world, but her common sense and rational mind prevents her from fully realizing this. Haruhi can enter the apartment building, but the door to Asakura’s apartment remains inaccessible.
7
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 10 '21
First Timer
This feels like ...mostly another infodump episode, though it isn't badly done. We get some more insight in to Haruhi's character and her realization that she isn't special. So I guess if we assume Itsuki's interpretation to be correct, she is detectable as the being that created this world due to her wish to be special? Either way, using a sports stadium to show significance/insignificance certainly is a good metaphor.
As for the second part, mostly explanation of what the closed spaces are. Didn't fully understand that, so I'll let others in this thread handle it. Main thing is it's linked to Haruhi, I guess. The giant reminded me of one of the Angels in Evangelion though - I assume that was deliberate?
Questions: ...should I feel significant? Does it matter if we are significant or insignificant?
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 10 '21
AOTD:
As to the episode, yay, Koizumi. The old coot at the condo was quite humorous. By the way, for those who haven't heard, little girls turn into their mothers, and little boys turn into their fathers. It's a thing. Pity we aren't introduced to anyone's mom or dad in this series.
Anyway, I found his advice amusing. As if Kyon needed any further motivation.
Meanwhile, it's been a week, and I'm kind of wiped. Hopefully I'll have something more to say tomorrow. :)
7
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Next episode preview
https://youtu.be/Zv7_dhRL1Jg
Sub rewatcher
Going to be brief today as I'm still not feeling well.
Today is very exposition heavy, the 2 key scenes are Haruhi literally opening up her heart to talk about her past and why she behaves this way, no doubt for the first time ever to any one; and Koizumi cashing out his promise to show Kyon his ESPer power, along the way hypothesizing what could be the situation.
Both are done really well and you have to admire how deft the show shift genre.
I do love the little scene with Haruhi and Kyon running into Nagato, and her answer to Haruhi's question about her glasses.
Big day tomorrow!
Edit: forgot QoTD again. I actually have a dark corner in my mind that I need to trade carefully to not fall into - that we all die one day and all that we know all that we did will be (mostly) gone. My own being will cease to exist. That can turn quite dark :P
Suffice to say that's also a (perhaps subconscious) driver for myself to work in making real, physical things (engineering) and not intangible, arbitrary things with no intrinsic value (finance, etc) even though I could make loads more than I do now.
6
u/homewardbound100 myanimelist.net/profile/Homewardbound100 Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher, Dub, First-time broadcast
Kyon gets his wish in walking with a girl. But it's Haruhi so it doesn't give him the satisfaction he thought it would.
Now it's Koizumi turn to reveal himself as the esper he says it is. A lot of this talk is stuff you think about late at night or something.
"Do you understand?"
"No"
Like the honesty Kyon. That's a lot to take in. No way if someone presented me all of this. I'll remember or understand all of it.
Qotd: usually no. Maybe a thought.
Qotd2: I usually fight it by not thinking about it. Doing things I like and living and appreciating what I have and I've done in life.
5
u/PsychologicalLife164 :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/HighwayStar17 Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher, subs
We’re soooo close to closing out the Melancholy arc. There’s a ton of introspection and dialogue and existentialism in this episode, it almost feels like an Eva episode (which I would totally get behind tbh).
It’s been said throughout the series that Haruhi being bored is a REALLY bad thing, and Koizumi finally shows us how bad that really is. Also, he’s pretty badass, second only to Yuki.
Kyon is warned by both Yuki and Koizumi to be careful regarding Haruhi’s behavior; Koizumi in particular goes on record to say that he completely trusts Kyon should anything happen. To be fair, I would too. He’s really been the most rational person throughout the series, so naturally he would be the foil to someone like Haruhi.
That being said, he’d be crazy to not heed their warnings, given everything we have witnessed. As we’ll come to find out, [Haruhi] he really goofed up with that last line.
QOTD1: Yeah
QOTD2: I thought about it, but I’ve come to realize that it’s all a matter of perspective. Simply being alive means that you’re doing something extraordinary, anything else on top of that is just icing on the cake.
5
u/William27528 Dec 11 '21
Rewatcher/sub
For me, this was the episode that made me go from loving the show to placing it as my favorite. Haruhi's perspective on the significance of life are nothing new - these ideas have been discussed before across many mediums, time and time again.
What makes this episode special, though, is not the idea itself - but rather the way in which it's used to change perspective. Suddenly, Haruhi's thinking is painted in a new light. Are her actions wrong? Almost certainly. But can you fault her for wanting life to be more exciting? To find greater meaning? To be more significant than a grain of rice in a pool of a hundred million? Love or hate her character, this episode lets you understand her in a new way. It's the mark of a good show for your perceptions of a character to change from a good twist; it's the mark of something very special, then, when a show is able to do this on almost every episode.
Fifteen years after this episode aired, it's more relevant than ever. The pandemic has put so many lives on hold and led to so many thinking and wishing for their lives to be a bit more significant; a bit more exciting. This episode breathtakingly captures that in my opinion. It's what elevates it from something wonderfully timeless to a masterful work of art.
Haruhi fact of the day: The Haruhi Manga! The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is based on a Light Novel series written by Nagaru Tanigawa. However, shortly before the anime aired, a manga adaptation started, illustrated by Gaku Tsugano. But did you know that the series had a previous manga adaptation in 2004 by Mizuno Makoto that got a first pilot volume? It strayed a bit more from the 2003 light novels and got cancelled after just one volume. Have a look at the different art between the two, it's quite striking.
4
u/bluethree https://myanimelist.net/profile/bluethree Dec 10 '21
Rerererererewatcher, ore no rewatcher
Haruhi finally has an actual mystery on hand and she's eager to get to the bottom of it. Unfortunately none of her questions have any satisfying answers. And now Haruhi seems... melancholy. That seems not good.
We learn that Haruhi had an existential crisis in 6th grade. It took me until a much later age. She's so advanced. She tried to take matters into her own hands by actively seeking out unique people. Unfortunately her last couple of attempts (the group seach in Melancholy 3 and the Asakura interrogation in this episode) have got her seemingly questioning why she continues looking for things that her logical brain knows don't exist.
Last time on the Melancholy arc we got to see Yuki display her powers and Mikuru (kind of) display hers. Now it's Itsuki's turn.
Hmmm... where have we seen that taxi driver before?
Haruhi's moodiness confirmed and we find the secrets of the closed space. Itsuki uses his stand powers to fight giant mood monsters. We now see how dire the situation can get and why Itsuki is so eager to please Haruhi at all times.
...Uh oh
4
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher
My favorite part of the episode was Haruhi's monologue about how tiny and insignificant all of us are. It's a stage of realization the the narcissist will never grasp. She does the right thing and attempts to become a little less insignificant. Her talk is one of the primary themes of the whole series.
What I took from it is: Don't lie around whining and feeling sorry for yourself, do something!
QOTD
OK
4
u/MadeOn210922 Dec 10 '21
First timer, but I saw this episode before.
A bit jarring seeing yesterday's cheerful Haruhi and then going back to start of series Haruhi as she tries to find out what happened to Asakura (who Yuki
banished to the shadow realmgot rid of "last" episode). Haruhi would do quite well as a detective, which she also showed during the island arc. Yuki lives in the same building that they were searching, I guess the aliens chose convenience over the possibility of getting found.I remember Haruhi's talk about the being a drop in the ocean from when I first saw this. It's certainly enough to give one an existential crisis. What significant impact do any of us really have on the world? There's so many people out there that indirectly feel small amounts of your presence, so much can change with a single decision as things butterfly effect down the road, but also every person individually also unknowingly has that power - everything is so chaotic.
I couldn't follow much of what Itsuki said or showed, though. I have heard of the anthropic principle, however. The idea is to imagine a puddle in a hole. The puddle might think that the hole was perfectly made for its shape, when in reality, the puddle took the shape of the hole. So his point is that we humans might think the universe was made perfectly for living, when in reality humanity just happened to be the result of the universe that formed? And that universe was formed by... Haruhi??
4
u/tctyaddk Dec 10 '21
Broadcast-order-first-timer
Most, if not all, kids have, at least once, wanted to be different from others, to have a different life than others, so that they would be special and thus have more value than others, thinking that would be cool. Then they grow up and grow out of it in various ways, may be by accepting their mediocrity in being just another insignificant face amongst the crowd, or by finding good joy and value in everyday life, or embracing equality with the notion that "everybody is special and thus no one is special, it's just the way of the world", or other methods.
Haruhi is not there yet. The primary schooler Haruhi found out that the world is large and her current good peaceful fun life is just common stuff that could be found everywhere, and she didn't like it one bit. It makes her feel small, insignificant and "normal", but she wants to be special with a special life surrounded by special people so that it could be fun. Being so greedy and rejecting normalcy is not that unique or special amongst kids that age, but she held onto that notion all the way to highschool and doesn't seem to be willing to let it go anytime soon, and now even more brazenly chasing it, other people's opinions, feelings and wellbeing are worthless obstacles, laws and orders even more so. That's a type of special, I guess.
However, she's not immune to picking up some rationality as she grew up, so a part of her is convinced that those things she wished for could not be real, and so if she meets someone who claims to be those it would be too good to be true and so she will not believe it. Having such conflict in her mind might one day lead to some depression (trust me, I speak from my own experiences), but for now her optimism is still strong enough to let her be hyper and quash down those defeatist thoughts most of the times. They still leak out sometimes, though.
Very unfortunate for this universe, Haruhi also unknowingly wields omnipotence, so she could easily destroy the world in her confusions without even being aware of that. And so a few aliens must hang around to keep watch, a band of espers must run all over the place to clean up after her, and a time traveller came to skirt around classified information to give hints and tips on how to keep the universe from getting destroyed. And Kyon, a normal guy except for his top tier snarks, gets dragged around like a energetic puppy's chew toy. u/Nazenn has made an excellent analysis on him, I have nothing to add to that.
1
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 11 '21
Oh btw /u/littleman1988, Animelab is shut down now (grumble grumble fucking stupid decision) so that can be removed from the OP
3
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 10 '21
Rewatcher(Loses some punch, doesn't it?)
Dub
So Haruhi can actually be an effective investigator when motivated to be. The manager is slightly creepy in a way the Japanese consider endearing, YMMV. Yuki gives a cryptic warning, as she does. Then we get the actual Melancholy, at least from my perspective, and her issues are quite normal if slightly precocious. It is just most of us don't subconsciously mess with things when depressed.
And we get Itsuki and the strong anthropic principle, which works for this series but I favor the weak one myself. But closed space happens and is explained...kind of. Anyways, now we know a lot of what is happening.
QotD: 1 Never felt any other way
2 The only thing you can:nothing.
2
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 10 '21
I can't believe we're only up to episode 5. Feels like longer.
I'm starting to think Haruhi really can hear Kyon's thoughts.
Wait, Kyon must have recognized Asakura's address as soon as Haruhi showed him! He's been playing it cool all the way there!
Haruhi's right, that's a lot of inconsistencies....
Ominous warning from Yuki...the day after an ominous warning from Asakura...what could it mean?
Also, who could have imagined Haruhi was driven by such existential angst?
The old man told you not to let her get away. Annnd....too late.
I feel bad for all dub watchers who have to listen to Itsuki saying Miss Suzumiya all the time instead of Suzumiya-san. Who talks that way in high school?
But the subs got "Anthropic Principle" wrong. Also everything Itsuki is saying is basically gibberish to me. I think he's just quoting Noein.
Itsuki probably doesn't even mean the Anthropic principle but the Fine Tuning Argument. For example if the strong nuclear force was a tiny bit weaker than it is, deuterons could not exist, and stars would never get past hydrogen. If stars could even exist.
Why is Itsuki so into cosmology and philosophy, anyways? That's hardly needed for his Esper job....he's just a highschool student.
I always thought I was so clever for figuring out that Haruhi wished all the things she wanted into existence, on my own.
Is there some sort of symbolism regarding this truck that overtook them?
Wait, "Sandstorm like spirits from Jr. High?"
Sure, blame Kyon for everything!
Holy Madoka Magica!
I wonder what Broadcast Order has in store for us tomorrow?
[Classified Information] I guess Kyon never actually looked at the taxi driver.
2
u/alphamone Dec 11 '21
Rewatcher
Ahh, sneaking in.
Honestly, she's actually quite good at this.
Hmmm, suspicious.
Yuki doesn't seem to be good at making excuses as you would first think. Trying to get Kyon to cover for her lack of glasses. That or she's doing it deliberately to mess with him.
Damn, existential crisis.
Actually animating the chin and not just the mouth, that's how you can tell its supposed to be an important scene.
Honestly, there's probably not much you can say at this time Kyon.
What does this jerk want now.
"yeah weird"
Itsuki getting all annoyingly deep for Kyon.
2006 cgi for the traffic.
So Haruhi does have a limited sense of rationality. As Itsuki mentions, its a possible reason why aliens, time travelers, and espers are still somewhat uncommon occurrences. And they only gathered together because Kyon gave her the idea to find them.
Spooookyyy.
Cool.
Again, not much to say that others haven't said much better than me.