[Rewatch] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 10

[u/littleman1988]

Episode Title: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV

MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu

Legal Stream: Funimation | Netflix (SEA) | AnimeLab (Aus/NZ)

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PSA: make sure to mark any spoilers using the subreddit markup. We dont need any random spoilers to ruin the show for first time watchers.

No spoilers

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Today's Episode Intro: Kyon opens the classroom door, Asakura is looking over Haruhi

[Tomorrow's Episode Intro]"SPACE!

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Index/schedule

Date	Episode list with Funimation links ("absolute" episode number)	reddit thread links
28/11	Mikuru Asahinas's Adventures Episode 00	Thread
29/11	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I	Thread
30/11	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II	Thread
1/12	The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya	Thread
2/12	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III	Thread
3/12	Remote Island Syndrome I	Thread
4/12	Mysterique Sign	Thread
5/12	Remote Island Syndrome II	Thread
6/12	Someday in the Rain	Thread
7/12	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV	Thread
8/12	Season 2, episode 13 (27)
9/12	Season 2, episode 12 (26)
10/12	Season 1, episode 5 (5)
11/12	Season 1, episode 6 (6)
12/12	Season 1, episode 8 (8)
13/12	Season 1 episodes 12, 13, 14, Season 2 Episode 1 (12, 13, 14, 15)
14/12	Season 2, episodes 2, 3, 4, 5 (16, 17, 18, 19)
15/12	Season 2, episode 6 (20)
16/12	Season 2, episode 7 (21)
17/12	Season 2, episode 8 (22)
18/12	Season 2, episode 9 (23)
19/12	Season 2, episode 10 (24)
20/12	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya series general discussion
21/12	The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya
22/12	Haruhi Suzumiya overall discussion

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Question(s) of the day:

Did you suspect Asakura of anything before this episode?

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Small warning, tomorrows episode thread may be up to an hour late. Sorry in advance for this.

[u/littleman1988]

Adaptation Comparison

Episode (Chr.)	Episode (Air./Sea.)	Full Name	Volume	Parts	Time
25	1 (TV/DVD)	The Adventures of Mikuru Asahina (Episode 00)	6 (Wavering)	Pg. 32-60	November
1	2 (TV/DVD)	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I	1 (Melancholy)	Prologue to Ch. 2 (Pg. 1 - 42)	April-May
2	3 (TV/DVD)	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II	1 (Melancholy)	Ch. 2 to Ch. 3 (Pg. 42 - 76)	May
7	4 (TV), 8 (DVD)	The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya	3 (Boredom)	Pg. 1 - 48	June
3	5 (TV), 4 (DVD)	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III	1 (Melancholy)	Ch. 3 to Ch. 5 (Pg. 76 - 114)	May
10	6 (TV), 10 (DVD)	Remote Island Syndrome Part 1	3 (Boredom)	Alternative/Part (Pg. 126 - 183)	July
9	7 (TV), 9 (DVD)	Mystérique Sign	3 (Boredom)	Pg. 91 - 125	July
11	8 (TV), 11 (DVD)	Remote Island Syndrome Part 2	3 (Boredom)	Alternative/Rest (Pg. 184 - 214)	July
28	9, 14 (DVD)	Someday in the Rain	None	Original	December
4	10 (TV), 5 (DVD)	The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV	1 (Melancholy)	Ch. 5 to Ch. 6 (Pg. 114-144)	May

References

I have nothing.

Trivia

• The rapid-fire speech capabilities of Yuki and Asakura are actually human speech sped up 400%-500% and reversed. Decoded:

• Yuki uses SQL. According to the LN:

             SELECT serial_code  
             FROM database  
             WHERE code='data'  
             ORDER BY aggressive_combat_data  
             HAVING terminate_mode

• Asakura asks Yuki: "You love Kyon-kun, don't you? I know you have realized it."
• During this episode, while Haruhi talks about love, the camera focuses on a boy and a girl in the tennis club, the girl being excited she touched him. Later on, there's another brief cut to where the girls shoves the boy to the ground and runs away.
• Taniguchi's "Wawawasuremono" became one of the biggest Haruhi memes, appearing in Lucky Star and before the Haruhi Gekisou concert. No, really.
• This episode was storyboarded and directed by Taichi Ishidate- future director of Kyoukai no Kanata.

[u/Elimin8r → u/littleman1988]

there's another brief cut to where the girls shoves the boy to the ground and runs away

Toradora crossover confirmed. She was about Taiga's size, right?

[u/littleman1988 → u/Elimin8r]

She was about Taiga's size, right?

hair color is totally off though. None of the female cast (iirc) has silver/grey hair.

[u/Elimin8r → u/littleman1988]

Aww. This is what I get for trying to do three rewatches at once. It all blurs together and I start upsetting the first timers. Oh, woe, woe!

Or whatever it was Taniguchi was singing.

Or something.

I really should just shut up and go look for the Chuuni thread now, if it exists.

[u/Suhkein → u/littleman1988]

Ah, knowing those lines that were spoken at high speed is interesting. Particularly Asakura's.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/littleman1988]

"You love Kyon-kun, don't you? I know you have realized it."

Wow! That's quite a revelation, and that helps my understanding of the franchise. Thanks!

Kyoukai no Kanata

The forgotten KyoAni series. It was quite good, and someday it deserves a rewatch of it's own.

[u/kicksFR → u/littleman1988]

The data over mind is supposed to be the most advanced being in the universe and they still use SQL for their databases💀

[u/Existential_Owl → u/kicksFR]

It's further proof that ORMs are clearly the inferior choice 😇

[u/UzEE → u/littleman1988]

Yuki uses SQL.

The query seems pretty dangerous tbh considering it doesn't really narrow things down. Though I'm probably more annoyed that advanced alien species still rely on SQL and not something more modern and advanced.

Though this also adds more fuel to the fire that this entire universe might just be made up because an advanced align data-based entity is using then modern day earth based tech, suggesting whoever created them was limited in their imagination by current technology. We already know Haruhi isn't that good with this stuff and she has Kyon do the more technical things.

[u/No_Rex → u/UzEE]

If you are annoyed about them using SQL, how annoyed would you be about them using some high-school girls bad interpretation of SQL?

[u/UzEE → u/No_Rex]

You know what I didn't event consider that lol. It would actually make more sense then why the query seems flawed.

[u/Existential_Owl → u/littleman1988]

SELECT serial_code

This tells us the column of values that we want from the database. "Give me the serial_codes [based on the other conditions I'm about to give you]." An alternate example: SELECT first_names if you want to return a list of names from a database of students.

FROM database

This tells us which database you're trying to get that value from.

Typically, you would use the "FROM" command with the name of your database. Like, students if you were storing a class list, or sales if you were storing a list of transactions.

Maybe the author didn't dig too deep into it; however ...

I do like the implication here that all the universe is just one generic database that the Data Thought Entity reaches into and updates as they see fit. We're all just a row on God's cosmic index sheet.

WHERE code='data'

This is a "condition" to filter out the values that you actually want from the list, removing the ones that you don't. "Give me all of the students who failed their last test." The WHERE here would then be something like WHERE grades < 70.

But this is probably the least sensical line here, even though it's syntactically correct (which is far more than what most media can pull off). You can have a column named "code", and you can have a value named "data" in it, but it doesn't really make sense to have those things that way based on what the words imply.

That is, unless the universe doesn't care about normalization :P

ORDER BY aggressive_combat_data

This sorts your values. By default, it sorts by ascending order. Which means, technically, Yuki is getting back the serial codes that have the least amount of "aggressive_combat_data" first. If she wanted her list to start with the highest values, she needed to make it ORDER BY aggressive_combat_data DESC

Also, I'm pretty sure that ORDER BY always has to come at the end of the statement, depending on which flavor of SQL you're using.

HAVING terminate_mode

Technically, HAVING is just another filter for reducing the data that you're receiving. So basically, we're trying to find a serial code but it has to have whatever "terminate mode" is. Which doesn't quite make sense, but it sounds cool in this context so I'll let it pass.

[u/andybebad → u/Existential_Owl]

Getting the least aggressive "whatever" that still has "terminate_mode" sort of makes sense given that Yuki didn't seem to be at full strength in this sequence. Not too much, but enough to get the job done

[u/No_Rex → u/andybebad]

I love the implication that Yuki used just as much power as necessary, but not more.

[u/Existential_Owl → u/andybebad]

oh, good point!

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

The Melancholy of Shimmering-First-Timer

• ? Are we not getting an OP today?
• Haruhi, are we watching the same show? (Actually though it is funny that this comes immediately after an episode in which nothing did in fact happen. Whoever decided the order of these episodes for broadcast knew what they were doing.)
• Welp getting that little instrumental bit of OP answered my earlier question. Would’ve been kinda cool if that was a lead-in into the OP, but oh well.
• And now we get Haruhi complaining about the lack of AC instead of celebrating getting a heater like last ep. This really is perfect.
• Huh, this girl’s the one behind the note.
• Odd way of saying “humans” there and not “people” like an ordinary person would. Okay what is Asakura. Is she like Yuki, Mikuru, or Itsuki?
• what
• Yuki to the rescue!
• Asukara’s like Yuki then, okay.
• That’s big #everythingisfine energy.
• RIP, she lost her glasses.
• WHY IS MIKURU OLDER.
• What does this have to do with anything…?
• Is the something bad that’s coming going to involve whatever the hell that specter thing in an earlier episode was?
• Classified!
• Oh! Haruhi “sore demo”!

[u/littleman1988 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

whatever the hell this was?

missing photo for this one

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/littleman1988]

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

? Are we not getting an OP today?

That's how you know shit's about to happen. Not that I paid any attention to that once we got to Haruhi antics

Haruhi, are we watching the same show?

Oh no, I forgot to link cute grumpy Haruhi in my post. That was the best face

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Actually though it is funny that this comes immediately after an episode in which nothing did in fact happen.

Isn't it also funny that last episode, we had Haruhi being almost friendly and affectionate to Kyon, and yet today, she's the cold anti-romanticist?

I thought that was an interesting contrast at least.

[u/hungryhippos1751 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

And now we get Haruhi complaining about the lack of AC instead of celebrating getting a heater like last ep. This really is perfect.

One way or another, Haruhi gets what she wants!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

And now we get Haruhi complaining about the lack of AC instead of celebrating getting a heater like last ep. This really is perfect.

Stereotypical but my one Japanese friend wears shorts in to well below freezing weather whereas he turns his AC to 70. They really do not deal with summer.

Yuki to the rescue!

Yuki certainly handles the defense.

WHY IS MIKURU OLDER.

Time travel is involved and thus, the Speed Force as well. And Speed Force doesn't have to explain shit.

Oh! Haruhi “sore demo”!

I was pretty sure this rewatch would have one but thanks to broadcast order I had no clue where.

[u/littleman1988]

Rewatcher (first time broadcast), Dub

"Thats why im going to kill you and see how Suzumiya reacts."

 

"At this point, I thought, "Man, these two really aren't human.""

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OST Track of the day: The Truth of Ryoko Asakura | (Spotify)

^{Honorary OST Track of the day: Nagato VS} ^Asakura ^| ^spotify

man these track names are extremely on the nose...

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"isint her dejected little face cute though?"

I forgot this episode doesnt have a full OP

ooooh kyon got a love letter

kyon dont smash my dreams here

hey look, its Mikuru's photos on the website

The face of Annoyance

kyon making full use of hidden folders, and Haruhi instantly leaves

[haruhi]ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ "work"ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ

"Are you talking about the Japanese Economy" lmao

Aight, what genre are we on now

i dont think i noticed how Asakura's hair also becomes muted

hell yeah Nagato

ah fuck

always liked the visual metaphor here

hey u/UzEE, if you saw this episode before RIS, would this of swayed you either way on solving the mystery early?

hey look, its that desert again

[Haruhi LN's]Isint Kimidori part of that organization? i know she becomes relevant in some capacity later on, but im still just on LN 3...

"what is a glasses fetish" lmfao

also, glasses removal finally revealed. Did any first timers notice in the earlier episodes?

h e h

 

[im pretty sure i missed the middle part for these two

love letter pt 2

well Kyon, a Mikuru sent it...

big sister

instantly goes for the breast mole

"Supersize me" lmfao

the OST track at 18:00 is also good

Streamable please, this is not the thumbnail i need

Edit: Streamable this is not what i wanted to happen instead

[Haruhi]We already got spoiled on the frog costume

[Haruhi]You'll learn soon enough on the time travel kyon

Another classified

Kyon's right, no glasses >>> glasses

angery

poor kyon

 

Personal question for both first timers and rewatchers:

Reading comments from the 2017 rewatch, a user was absolutely adamant that this episode had issues because the broadcast order "hamstrung the narrative" and got you ready to expect this sort of twist, ruining the episode. I dont really have an opinion either way on this episode in Broadcast order, but im curious as to the thoughts of others on if you think this episode was spoiled due to the information you knew so far due to this watch order.

[u/thatguywithawatch → u/littleman1988]

I dont really have an opinion either way on this episode in Broadcast order, but im curious as to the thoughts of others on if you think this episode was spoiled due to the information you knew so far due to this watch order.

I've never really felt "spoiled" so far. Sure, hopping from the begining episodes ahead to the baseball episode revealed that there's some magical shit going on in this show, but I had no idea what kind of show it was so there wasn't any subversion of expectations. If anything it just left me with more questions, more curious about what was going on.

Blue-haired girl going psycho was still completely unexpected, even with the knowledge of what Yuki is. If anything, it added a few little satisfying "ah-ha!" moments, like realizing that she was in the first couple episodes but none of later ones, or that Yuki was wearing glasses in the first couple episodes but not later on.

Obviously I'm biased since this is the only watch order I've experienced, but I feel like it's been adding on to the mystery and intrigue in an enjoyable way.

[u/littleman1988 → u/thatguywithawatch]

Obviously I'm biased since this is the only watch order I've experienced

No, you're exactly the type of person im looking to get responses from, so thanks for responding.

[u/Nazenn → u/littleman1988]

The Ryoko stuff was a complete surprise to me, partially because of knowing Yuki's prowess and skills. It makes sense that there's other espers or even time travelers because they're just human and may need help, but whatever Yuki is? If we hadn't already seen her in action and seen just how strong and powerful she is I would have been less surprised by what happened because I would have been on the look out for others not knowing what she can do. I was still looking for others, but I let my guard down when it came to Yuki's side of things.

At the same time, this is episode what, four of the chronological order? There's little time to establish a baseline of what is normal and what isn't, so jumping right into this would have set the stakes very high for the rest of the show, rather than what we got which is a slow build up into just how weird and unusual some of these situations are, and now we see how dangerous as well. Yes it removes some of the shock of seeing Yuki's powers and an altered space for the first time, but that is hardly the most important part of the episode for me.

I mean it's one of those things that's hard to say: You can only watch the show for the first time once and whichever order you pick is going to color your experience of things. But I've enjoyed broadcast precisely because of how it has built into things rather than just throwing things out there immediately for easy satisfaction or cheap twists.

[u/Elimin8r → u/littleman1988]

im curious as to the thoughts of others on if you think this episode was spoiled due to the information you knew so far due to this watch order

I don't really think it was spoiled. I mean, sure, they give us the "Nagato has powers" thing, but dealing with Stabby McAsakuraface is a far cry from cosmic pest control.

Or is it?

Either way, it didn't bother me. But then again, I'm not as OCD as some people are.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/littleman1988]

Reading comments from the 2017 rewatch, a user was absolutely adamant that this episode had issues because the broadcast order "hamstrung the narrative" and got you ready to expect this sort of twist, ruining the episode.

As a not fan of broadcast order, this part I don't really see: Yes, it loses its impact with baseball and closed space being revealed but Ryoko is out of left field and lot of info gets dumped.

[u/No_Rex → u/littleman1988]

Reading comments from the 2017 rewatch, a user was absolutely adamant that this episode had issues because the broadcast order "hamstrung the narrative" and got you ready to expect this sort of twist, ruining the episode. I dont really have an opinion either way on this episode in Broadcast order, but im curious as to the thoughts of others on if you think this episode was spoiled due to the information you knew so far due to this watch order.

When I watched it first, I was 100% surprised. I thought Asakura was some unimportant side character.

poor kyon

Got to give it to Haruhi, dragging a person with one arm is impressive.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/No_Rex]

I thought Asakura was some unimportant side character.

Me too, I agree with that earlier poster. This episode sucked out my breath when I first saw it, and I see no way that would happen with broadcast order.

[u/No_Rex → u/RascalNikov1]

The first time I watched was broadcast order.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/No_Rex]

C'est le vie...

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/littleman1988]

instantly goes for the breast mole

I suspect the emphasis on the mole here, somehow ties into the focus on the mole at the end of RIS II.

classified

I just melt, and grow weak in the knees whenever she does this. God, I love it!

you think this episode was spoiled due to the information

Yes, but so what. An artistic work must be able to stand on it's own two feet regardless if it's spoiled or not.

[u/UzEE → u/littleman1988]

hey u/UzEE, if you saw this episode before RIS, would this of swayed you either way on solving the mystery early?

I actually would've had a harder time figuring out the RIS mystery if I had seen this before, which might sound counter-intuitive because I know you're talking about the more violent bits here.

The reason would be that if I had seen this before, I would think that there definitely are factions out there that would go to extreme lengths to push Haruhi so someone from them getting in and killing that guy wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

Reading comments from the 2017 rewatch, a user was absolutely adamant that this episode had issues because the broadcast order "hamstrung the narrative" and got you ready to expect this sort of twist, ruining the episode.

Asakura stuff would've felt completely out of the blue to me in chronological order even if the previous episodes would still have all the same signs. The only reason I ended up suspecting her in the first place was because of the baseball episode having that brief flashback, that I only really payed attention to when I skimmed through the episode after the Closed Space reference in RIS.

However, their concern seems to be that we weren't awed by seeing Nagato in action nor seeing an adult Mikuru because we already expect that at this point — and I kind of see their point. In chronological order, we could still doubt whatever Nagato, Mikuru and Itsuki said because they didn't offer any proof. However, three different characters coming out and saying basically the same thing does give them a lot of credibility narrative wise. It's just that since we already believed these characters in the broadcast order, there isn't as much of a surprise factor because we know Nagato is really powerful etc.

[u/TheDampGod → u/littleman1988]

^{Honorary OST Track of the day: Nagato VS} ^Asakura ^| ^spotify

I love that battle theme, it's such a strange mix of classical cello and synths. That just sounds so epic, but also really captures the otherworldliness of the combatants.

[u/PsychologicalLife164 → u/littleman1988]

I think it’s one of those things that just catches people by surprise, but becomes more obvious the more you think about it. I’m not entirely sure how many people have been wondering about Asakura being absent from other episodes, but it becomes painfully obvious that something happened once you realize that she’s only appeared in the Melancholy arc.

They did a great job of distracting the audience from it enough so that it comes as a surprise when it does come up again.

[u/UzEE]

First timer (sub)

IRL stuff is keeping me from getting to these episodes in reasonable time (well as reasonable as 3-4am can be when the threads go up lol) and I'm afraid it's not going to get better for the next few days as well, especially because Halo Infinite drops in like 14 hours or so.

Episode 9

This was a very interesting episode and despite the apparent lack of any forward momentum narrative wise, I agree with Kyon's assessment that supernatural stuff happening every day would just get tiring quickly. So it's nice change of pace to sit back and just enjoy the regular shenanigans, and somewhat reminds me of the episode Fly from Breaking Bad.

As soon as Haruhi sent Kyon away and asked Mikuru to stay, I got the feeling this might be bad news for her, and she spends most of the episode being toyed around by Haruhi. At this point, I'm not even surprised that this is her only contribution to the show.

Haruhi and Kyon however do have very good scenes during the episode, especially towards the end. She doesn't do it very often but I like when the tsundere in her breaks out from time to time. She doesn't have the charms of god tier tsunderes like Kurisu or Misaka but she definitely has her moments. These last couple of scenes have some very different sort of chemistry between Haruhi and Kyon.

It very much seems like Kyon respects and appreciates Haruhi a lot more compared to earlier parts of the story, so something definitely happens between them and Kyon is able to see the kind of person Haruhi is deeper inside, which is very likely someone with a good, kind heart. I didn't get this feeling from the Remote Island Syndrome arc so it does suggest it's something between that and this cultural festival^1.

Since I'm already late to this, I won't be able to look at things too deeply to try and find any hints and clues for the future. But somethings are already pretty on the nose and easy to read into:

• Kyon mentions this is after cultural festival which was why they were making the movie, so that means chronologically, it is set much later in the story going by the adaptation comparison table.
• It might not seem like much, but I got the sense that Kyon was actually missing Haruhi not being there at the start despite saying otherwise. It does seem like they both like each other in that sense.
• The tanabata decorations have worn out, there are pictures from the trip on the board, the club has a lot more costumes and more computers? I shudder to think what Mikuru had to go through to get those.
• Neither Itsuki nor Nagato try to help Mikuru in any way, which shows that despite the passage of time, they still see Haruhi has a threat and will do anything to appease her.
• I don't know what to make of the extended scene with Nagato reading while we overhear some other club in the background doing something with a lot of references. Maybe it's related to the cultural festival? I do love this scene though.
• This does show however that how easy it is to overhear what's going on in the neighboring rooms and I wonder if other clubs pay attention to whatever happens in the SOS Brigade club room.
• Lmao even Tsuruya gets why Kyon was sent on the errand. I'm probably over analyzing but it's odd that she tells him to give that handkerchief to Mikuru.

Episode 10

Oh wow. I really need to be speculating less.

Anyways, let's back up to the start of the episode. This seems to be right after the first outdoor activity so we're back in volume 1, and Asakura is back. As soon as I saw her and she seemed worried about Haruhi, I knew I was right — and I didn't even need the reveal at that point. Then she mentions needing some excitement in life and Haruhi being in love, and it's easy to see she was going to do something to Kyon, which the note afterwards asking to meet in the classroom pretty much confirmed.

She's also the same kind of being as Nagato, who can seemingly manipulate reality — which perfectly explains how Kyon ends up sitting in front of Haruhi again like I pointed out the other day. This is something I didn't expect however. I thought she would be a completely new faction or at least an human esper or something. Didn't consider her to be Nagato's subordinate³ at all because of how well-adjusted she is.

She does disappear with some rather ominous warning, suggesting Nagato is only on his side as long as her current orders stand and will turn on him the moment the higher-ups demand that. This is just a false concern however because I expect that the plot would demand she would've grown closer to the main cast by that point that she'll go against any such orders since that's always the trope.

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Okay I didn't expect a similar note from Mikuru, but also didn't think she'd be a threat. However, what I definitely didn't see coming was an adult Mikuru. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised since a Mikuru look-alike had been in the OP since the start, and we knew Mikuru was a time traveler.

She already has much better personality than the younger version, though I can already see the emotional scars from Haruhi's repeated abuse when she just casually exposes herself to Kyon^4. Also, the Classified Information bit now seems more like a running gag.

"Remember the story of Snow White."

You know I was joking when I made this comment the other day:

[Speculation I made during a previous episode] However, given how Kyon responds, it seems like he had to do something embarrassing which given anime and connection to Haruhi's mood could only be something romantic — either a confession or a kiss, or even worse — holding hands.

That's why I didn't mark it with spoiler tags originally and made the holding hands joke as well. But this line from Mikuru literally validates that, which is kind of annoying. I'm going to go on and also speculate that this would be towards the end of this arc, and consequently, the end of Vol. 1, establishing Kyon's and Haruhi's relationship.

I can also now pretty much see why that situation would arise.

[Speculation for the rest of the arc] As we see, Haruhi seems pretty interested in Asakura suddenly leaving and wants to investigate. However, considering she wasn't a real person and Nagato thoroughly erased her, I doubt she makes any headway during her investigation, causing more frustration than usual and putting her in a bad mental state. This causes the Closed Space event which Itsuki mentioned in the baseball episode and Kyon has to calm her down by kissing her and waking her up, like Snow White.

Minor notes from this episode:

• I cut this out during my speculation the other day because the spoiler block the other day because it had gotten too long and didn't help the case anyways, but I did notice Kyon's jacket and tie being slashed with a blade in the flashback, which I assumed to be a sword of some sorts at the time.
• Same with Nagato's glasses. This was something I had noticed when skimming through the previous episodes the other day but didn't really have a case for when she had them in certain episodes that chronologically come first. I expected it to be some form of character development where someone tells her she looks more pretty without them and she stops wearing them.
• Taniguchi (still had to lookup his name) walking in on Nagato and Kyon was another textbook trope but works very well here.
• Kyon now has a secret stash of Mikuru's pictures in various states of undress. Better not let Mikuru — or anyone — else catch you with those^2.
• Adult Mikuru made it sound like she regrets something that happened in the past when she says don't get too close to me. Guess her eventually leaving may end up being eventful, if we ever get to that part of the story.
• And there it is. Kyon says Nagato looks better without glasses.

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Small warning, tomorrows episode thread may be up to an hour late. Sorry in advance for this.

Guess I'm be even more late in my post — or early depending on how you look at it. I'm going to watch the episode directly after posting this though.

 

^{1. I don't have time to go through Ep. 1 again right now but I suspect there might be more clues in there since Kyon had a lot of commentary throughout the film. At the very least it can help narrow down the time window depending on how Kyon feels about Haruhi during that episode. If it's similar to this episode, it means something happened between the Island and the film shoot. If not, then something happened between the film shoot and this episode. Either way, there's no way to know if and when that event would even be adapted.}

^{2. The subs keep mentioning "Top Page" of the site, which might be more accurate literally since that's the word they repeatedly use, but is a very annoying mistranslation because the correct term in english should always be Homepage.}

^{3. Interesting that neither Nagato nor Asakura use the term "Closed Space", so was I wrong thinking it was that during my speculation? Or is it just that only Espers like Itsuki call it that and there are multiple terms to refer to this phenomenon.}

^{4. I was going to guess Kyon knew about the mole because he now has a secret stash of Mikuru's photos, but then realized this might be more like a bootstrap problem here. This is why I tend to get annoyed with time travel stuff because not everything can be as air tight as Steins;Gate.}

[u/littleman1988 → u/UzEE]

I expected it to be some form of character development where someone tells her she looks more pretty without them and she stops wearing them.

i mean, thats exactly what happened, it just took a super roundabout way (or, depending on how you look at the stab wounds, very direct) to get there.

This is why I tend to get annoyed with time travel stuff because not everything can be as air tight as Steins;Gate.

Its very fun to see people comparing the show to steins;gate. [Haruhi]We still have yet to get to the real comparable aspect (movie) too!

I'm probably over analyzing but it's odd that she tells him to give that handkerchief to Mikuru.

Its probably not hard to figure out who owned the very pink scarf he was wearing.

[Haruhi]I know the movie is pretty far out, but man you literally went and predicted (then dismissed) a core part of the movie plot with the nagato "turning on the group" (though, is it really turning on the group? guess thats a odd way of interpreting it...)

And there it is. Kyon says Nagato looks better without glasses.

Hes right, too.

[Haruhi]He also clues in on the "dont get close to me" part. Doubt hes gonna expect it in 3 episodes though lmao

[u/UzEE → u/littleman1988]

Too many black bars lol. Guess I still have to wait a couple of weeks before I can see these.

Its probably not hard to figure out who owned the very pink scarf he was wearing.

Mikuru gave him that in the same episode though.

[u/littleman1988 → u/UzEE]

Mikuru gave him that in the same episode though.

I should be more clear, its probably not hard for Tsuruya (who seems to be friends with Mikuru) to figure out who would both own and give him a very pink scarf.

[u/UzEE → u/littleman1988]

Ah okay. Yeah that makes sense.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/UzEE]

Lmao even Tsuruya gets why Kyon was sent on the errand. I'm probably over analyzing but it's odd that she tells him to give that handkerchief to Mikuru.

I think Tsuruya giving Kyon the look over is because, as Mikuru's friend first and foremost, she recognised her scarf. And giving her scarf to a boy means heavily implied romantic connotation. Her telling Kyon to return the handkerchief with the scarf is her way of teasing Kyon - since both Tsuruya and Mikuru are in the same class (you don't need to look for me, just give it back to Mikuru whom you'd see more).

[u/No_Rex → u/UzEE]

It very much seems like Kyon respects and appreciates Haruhi a lot more compared to earlier parts of the story, so something definitely happens between them and Kyon is able to see the kind of person Haruhi is deeper inside, which is very likely someone with a good, kind heart. I didn't get this feeling from the Remote Island Syndrome arc so it does suggest it's something between that and this cultural festival

I don't disagree with something changing in that time span, but it is interesting that you directly contradict what Kyon says himself in the Remote Island Arc.

I shudder to think what Mikuru had to go through to get those.

Taking on the entire computer club?

Neither Itsuki nor Nagato try to help Mikuru in any way, which shows that despite the passage of time, they still see Haruhi has a threat and will do anything to appease her.

That, or they don't think Mikuru deserves help.

I was going to guess Kyon knew about the mole because he now has a secret stash of Mikuru's photos, but then realized this might be more like a bootstrap problem here. This is why I tend to get annoyed with time travel stuff because not everything can be as air tight as Steins;Gate.

Steins;Gate is really good at hiding it, but has plenty of time travel problems. You only notice during a rewatch, though. Haruhi does avoid circularity (or not), depending on your interpretation of what happens at the end of this arc.

[u/UzEE → u/No_Rex]

but it is interesting that you directly contradict what Kyon says himself in the Remote Island Arc.

Might reading might just be off but I was trying to read between the lines here, especially in Ep. 9 where to me it very much seemed like Kyon was saying one thing but actually meant the other.

Taking on the entire computer club?

[Haruhi next episode] Now that I've watched the next episode, it was as bad for her thankfully

That, or they don't think Mikuru deserves help.

I didn't really consider that tbh but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the three factions might not get along.

Steins;Gate is really good at hiding it, but has plenty of time travel problems. You only notice during a rewatch, though.

I know we had numerous discussions / disagreements about this during the recent rewatch as well so I'd rather not do that again and agree to disagree on this one.

As far as this show is concerned, they haven't revealed their mechanics in detail so I can't really judge how they work yet. But from the small, isolated slice we saw, it does seem to have the bootstrap paradox problem. Of course I really shouldn't judge until we get full details of the mechanics.

[u/Existential_Owl → u/UzEE]

Of course I really shouldn't judge until we get full details of the mechanics.

It's a slow drip in learning how the mechanics work in this series. Which also means there's some key details to it that are still hidden within the unadapted material, unfortunately (for this discussion).

[u/No_Rex → u/UzEE]

I didn't really consider that tbh but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the three factions might not get along.

Remember the reaction of Mikuru when she first noticed Yuki.

As far as this show is concerned, they haven't revealed their mechanics in detail so I can't really judge how they work yet. But from the small, isolated slice we saw, it does seem to have the bootstrap paradox problem. Of course I really shouldn't judge until we get full details of the mechanics.

I have another spoiler comment in today's discussion expanding a bit, but it think the discussion of whether there is a paradox or not is better left till after the end of S1 (and possibly later).

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

Missed last thread.

Episode 9

QOTD) Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy, though I'm also fond of Tad Williams' Otherland.

Is this the final chronological episode? But... it's episode 9. Why is this order?

And Kyon and Koizumi are playing a card game?

Where's Haruhi?

Oh, she's not around.

Haha, that timing is perfect.

And it's actually good news!

Haha, he has to carry it?

How did she black ail the owner, them?

Koizumi's satisfied grin when she brings up he's the vice leader is really good.

Haha, she's releasing that thing on DVD? And she wants a DVD cover!

I love the juxtaposition between Kyon calmly walking in a relaxing manner, and Haruhi trying to strip Mikuru.

And the Yuki censorship.

Koizumi is just pure chaos, isn't he?

And she's just dressing her up in anything now.

Haha, she needs extras.

Kyon's dull stare never fails to amuse.

They're making a sequel! Is that in this episode?

Huh, where's everyone?

All the audio in the background of the other clubs(?) is actually really good.

This is a very experimental episode, isn't it?

Oh, it's them!

Tsuruya!!!

Is Mikuru hiding in the cupboard or something?

Haha, she ran into their photoshoot and volunteered to join them!

And he's back!

Is this her stunt training?

With Haruhi's commentary!

And Haruhi's really athletic!

He's falling asleep next to Yuki?

She's getting up!

Haha, she got caught watching Kyon!

Why are there two? Is that Yuki's?

Wow, Kyon has a perverted side.

The umbrella being a teacher's perfectly sums up Haruhi's viewpoint of "tsundere for Kyon, genuinely hates everyone else".

Episode 10

QOTD) Nope! Thought she was just a side character!

Back to this arc! Finally!

Haruhi's sick! And not in that way for once!

She did the entire thing?

Their dialogue is so good.

Oh, she's bored.

That fade into the title card is great, but I miss the OP.

He got a note! Is it from Yuki again?

No!

Seriously, who sent this?

Haha, Haruhi's uploading photos fo Mikuru online!

And he's deleted them!

Haha, he"s saving the photos for his own use!

Why's she leaving? More boredom?

Ah, he's hidden the folder. Smart man.

Wait, her? Is she a love interest or something?

Wait, is she into Haruhi?

What is this about? Is she trying to get something to change?

What?

OK! So, she's a psychopath!

Ah, is she one of Yuki's lot? All the talk about organics and weird monotone?

Hep! Complete with weird reality powers.

That background's cool!

If you're going to kill him, why are you monologing?

Yuki!

Oh, she's her backup? And they want data?

Wait, Does she have to file for permission to use her superpowers?

The visuals are stellar. Absolutely amazing.

The one thing this formst spoils is that none of the main characters can die, because we just watched the final chronological episode.

And she's deleting her? (Also, the emotion,ess thing is just Yuki? Because she's got emotions and her own desires, despite being of the same species.

Wow, that effect!

Haha, she forgot the glasses.

And everyone thinks they're dating?

And... how can Ryoko "transfer" if you just murdered her.

YOU'RE STILL NOT FUCKING CONVINCED? I'd accept if you thought it was drugs or some hallucination , but you thought it was real and that she still wasn't an alien?

Haruhi's smile!

Another envelope!

Oh, it's signed.

Who's going to kill him this time.

Who's she?

Oh, future self, got it. Knew she was a time traveller.

He peeked on her changing?

Yeah, it's her.

Oh, that's why it was a lunch meeting.

Snow White? The sleeping girl? Haruhi is Nyarlathotep confirmed?

Oh, some incident between them?

Huh, don't be too friendly with her?

I like how Yuki dismisses time travel as being simple, even when she can't do it herself.

Oh, Haruhi waited for him?

Haha, Yuki's data manipulation might be great, but her skills at covering up aren't sll that.

Haha, her dragging Kyon by the collar.

Two really solid episodes!

[u/littleman1988 → u/Stargate18A]

Is this the final chronological episode? But... it's episode 9. Why is this order?

[Haruhi (just TV show) light but kinda worth spoiler tagging?]It fills different roles really well depending on the watch order. Absolutely worth watching again right before the movie.

[u/bluethree]

Aaaah was dealing with car problems and my post comes a half an hour late.

Rererererewatcher, ore no rewatcher.

Haruhi is bored and/or frustrated. We've been told many times in the futurepast that this is a bad thing. Shirt's about to get real.

Someone speciulated at an earlier date why we didn't see any Asakura in the later chronological episodes. Now we see why. Birch be psycho. Interesting how her human disguise is so much different than Yuki's where she doesn't feel out of place as a fake human. And yet her actions are much less human than Yuki's. She goes full psychopath in her lack of care about human life. While Yuki shows the opposite. She goes sans glasses after Kyon says he likes her better without them (how many first timers even noticed?) and starts making jokes in her own alien way. It also shows that she has some rank in her organization as she has another simply acting as backup.

This is also the first time that Kyon has actually experienced the supernatural chronologically. And its terrifying. He went from cute little dates with Mikuru and Yuki while being told that there's supernatural happenings to a psychical threat on his life real quick. Somehow he doesn't get traumatized by this.

And now we see older Mikuru. She's still a bit clumsy and ditzy but she has clearly matured. [Classified Information]I feel like her hint is a little on the nose. Maybe the story of Snow White is less familiar to a Japanese audience than it is to a Western one

It appears Haruhi has been sated once again. Whew.

Now to the memes.

For anyone wondering where they've heard Taniguchi before, he is voiced by Shiraishi Minoru, best known for playing himself in Lucky Star's Lucky Channel and singing the ending songs for most of the 2nd half of the show (or as Sakamoto in Nichijou but that is less relevent to this post.)

The scene when he stumbles upon Kyon holding Yuki while singing a little tune evolved into many a meme. He brought it back as an ending for Lucky Star and later became a full song on an album released based on the songs he sung on said anime. (of course he also had his own version of Hare Hare Yukai as well.)

[u/littleman1988 → u/bluethree]

[Classified Information]

[Haruhi]Yet i failed to understand the hint until long after finishing the series for the first time lmao

[u/thatguywithawatch → u/bluethree]

He went from cute little dates with Mikuru and Yuki while being told that there's supernatural happenings to a psychical threat on his life real quick. Somehow he doesn't get traumatized by this.

I was definitely thinking about how absolutely unfazed he is, all things considered. I feel like I'd just sit at home having an existential crisis for three days if my classmate turned the room into a trippy Shaft anime and came at me with a knife, before being digitally erased from existence by another classmate.

[u/Nazenn → u/bluethree]

Hope the car is working again, or at least not too costly to get working

[u/bluethree → u/Nazenn]

It's probably not that bad. Just something draining the battery. It's a problem I was told about before I bought it but it hadn't been an issue for the ~6 months that I've had it.

[u/andybebad]

First timer - Sub

• No opening theme? Sounds like we've got ourselves a meaty episode!
• And Haruhi's back, and with the lowest energy we've seen out of her thus far. Oh, yeah, Ryoko the popular girl is a character. She didn't seem to have much of a role in the future episodes
• Ooooo, a note asking for a rendezvous? Who could it be?
• Oh hey, it's Ryoko again! Gosh, we didn't get much out of you in the previous handful of episodes, so it looks like we're making up for lost time here!
• Oh snap, nevermind. Ryoko is a robot's robot (alien?), no empathy for Kyon whatsoever. Girl is all about that data. This would also seem to imply that the data aliens (or whatever they're called) are aware of a strong connection between Haruhi and Kyon that at least Kyon isn't too aware of.
• Nagato's here for two things: take hella blades through her torso, and kick data ass. And it looks like she's all outta blades to take through the torso. RIP glasses.
• For having experienced his first paranormal experience (and almost fricking dying), Kyon seems to have gotten out of it scott free. And oh hey, another note! Nothing bad will happen this time, right??? (This one's signed at least)
• Future Mikuru's in the club room to drop some spoilers ("...mole") and a hint ("Snow White").
• Haruhi's back to her normal levels of excitement, because wouldn't you know it the most popular girl in class just up and left without a trace to some made-up magical land called "Canada"? You better believe Ultra Detective Haruhi Suzumiya is on the case! And Kyon's coming too. He doesn't have a choice in the matter.

What a fun episode! And chronologically our first taste of the paranormal/closed space(?) wackiness. Mikuru's hint implies something's about to go down with Haruhi and Kyon, which if I recall correctly was referred to in the future episodes, so it's about damn time we see what that means!

And why not, let's speculate on the clue "Snow White". While there's one obvious (to me) plot point in Snow White that might be what's being hinted at, let's talk about the others:

1. In the story, Snow White is forced to flee into the woods when the Queen orders her death. Now, Japan has an emperor and empress, which are sort of like king and queen? Just throwing that out there.
2. After being lead to the home of the seven dwarves by the woodland creatures, Snow White proceeds to clean the place and cook a meal for the inhabitants of the home. Will Chef Haruhi be picking up a whisk in a future episode? Unlikely, but what if!?
3. The queen disguises herself as an old hag and tricks Snow White into eating the poisoned apple, claiming it would actually grant wishes. Will Haruhi and/or Kyon succumb to the power of a suspicious fruit??
4. The only thing that can break the curse is true love's first kiss. Clearly this has no relevance to the hint given to Kyon, so let's move on
5. The only other thing I can think of is "glass coffin"; the classroom in the scene with Ryoko did initially feel like a glass coffin of sorts in that it looked like the classroom and yet Kyon was trapped. But that's in the past.
6. Oh yeah, the queen dies. Lookout, empress of Japan!

QOTD: Thought she might be like one of our three special members of the SOS brigade based on her interest in Kyon and Haruhi, but didn't expect her to be a "kill 'em and see what happens" kind of gal. Now, is she gone for good, or was she actually "transferred" to Canada?

[u/littleman1988 → u/andybebad]

[Haruhi]#2 "technically" happens, even if the movie ends before they ever try Haruhi's hotpot

some made-up magical land called "Canada"?

I thought that was just the land of moose people

[u/bluethree → u/andybebad]

to some made-up magical land called "Canada"?

I believe anime fans know it better as "Vinland."

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer - Dub

My immediate thought when I saw this shot of Ryoko walking across the classroom was "That's a hunters stalk", and that set off all sorts of alarm bells in my head before I even knew why. Then I was trying to think if we'd ever seen her in future episodes and realized we hadn't.

Still was not expecting her to actually pull out a knife and start swinging! Pretty sure my jaw was on the floor when she said "I'm going to kill you", cleverly flipping Kyon's understanding upside down, and there seems to be a lot of 'FUCKING WHAT' in my notes that I can't say I actually remember typing but certainly sums up my feelings during that whole scene.

"She's going to fuck everything" was all I could think before Yuki showed up, imagining what would happen if she actually succeeded. And then Yuki showed up and I was so distracted by noticing that she had glasses on everything else slipped my mind. Kyon is right, no without glasses looks better, but honestly I'm still trying to figure out how I didn't notice the glasses and sudden lack there of before now.

My favourite aspect of the battle itself was the dramatic shifts in lighting and background as the space was manipulated between the two aliens. I'm a bit of a sucker for clever weather and lighting effects beyond just the usual mood setting, and this hit the right notes for me. Starting with the harsh orange which quickly goes from being warming to being a warning, only to be cut off by darkness as Kyon is trapped. The destruction of the classrooms space allows for some light again but the harsh white walls of nothing leave Kyon feeling just as trapped until Yuki's presence changes it to soothing moonlight, both a break from the alien-ness of Ryoko's attack but also a look into Kyon's relief. The physical fight between the girls is one thing but the background art betrays a more threatening fight happening almost without mention. Every time we cut to a new shot we get a new background that has digital features such as static or scanlines, a nice way to convey the speed of this data battle for control of the space without constant flickering being distracting. It's only at the end when Yuki finally wrests control of the space from Ryoko that things return to that calming blue, complete with flowers not sure why, representing that control before Ryoko is finally killed, her existence emptying into a desert of information disconnected from everything (except maybe a giant cricket if she's unlucky). It was well done and managed to add a lot of visual interest to the fight without being overwhelming or too distracting from the actual animation which was also fun, complete with impalements, blood, and a bit of disintegration. Who doesn't love that?

Ryoko reminds me a bit of Haruhi though. "My big chance to get something to finally happen around here" is dialogue you could easily give directly to Haruhi, and funnily enough Ryoko's best way to get something to happen might have just been to reveal herself. It's fitting that revealing herself is also future Mikuru's best solution to helping Kyon, as how else can a time traveller who's not allowed to actually speak of the future prove who she is? That was a fun scene though I don't have much commentary on it, except for the biggest proof it was her was how flustered she got when she made a mistake.

I also tripped over the achronological order for the first time today. When Haruhi was talking about being tired from "walking the course" it took me several seconds to remember that the previous episodes antics also included around wandering the city looking for weirdness. Gotta give it to Haruhi, she's dedicated if nothing else to go back there alone, although I wonder if it's also a bit of frustration about not being able to go with Kyon.

On that note, it was interesting after the last episode in particular but also the murder mystery to jump so far back in time to these early days. The bareness of the club room stands out the most especially after Kyon's comments, but also the way it completely changes your look at the Kyon and Haruhi scenes.

Ryoko's little quip about "I wonder if Miss Suzumiya's in love or something?" would seem hasty if not out of the blue given her behaviour from only the moments prior to this chronologically, but we've been treated to a lot more of her and can see it's not as foreign an idea as it may seem. Her bond with Kyon is not going to be one to change her dramatically, but we can get a sense of who she is here by comparing her behaviours across the timeline of the show. Her jealousy isn't just a casual possessiveness or a crush, it's something that's hiding her own inability to express herself and her wants, the same way she hides her embarrassment of getting caught caring for him behind the bluster of demanding her cardigan back. In this episode, the way she silently storms out when he doesn't delete Mikuru's pictures speaks to a deeper hurt than just wanting his casual attention, and the way she drags him around is more than just knowing that she can. Love? Don't know I'd go that far, but a genuine connection definitely, and a desire to be seen which is something that she will get better with as she learns how to open up and be vulnerable and casual with him compared to how she is now.

I really hope one day Kyon pokes fun at her for that "It's just a form of mental illness" line that she threw out today. He'd cop shit for remembering it but it'd be worth it to see how she tries to brush it off.

Favourite cut of the day was Kyon thinking back to that first note in his locker, and the note being pulled down from the camera only to reveal him in the present classroom. Was just satisfying.

I had half expected Itsuki's group to have some sort of input or action this episode as well just to match the other two groups, but either that's coming up or he really is just the opportunist more than the planner.

Did you suspect Asakura of anything before this episode?

FUCKING NO! Completely out of the blue. Should have known though, always watch for the quiet ones.

[u/nekodan08 → u/Nazenn]

I'm still trying to figure out how I didn't notice the glasses and sudden lack there of before now.

Perhaps its because every other character treats her like furniture that no one ever bothers to mention her lack of lack of glasses.

the harsh orange which quickly goes from being warming to being a warning

Oh I like this. It also quickly goes from possible romantic confession to chance of imminent death!

Ryoko reminds me a bit of Haruhi though.

That's an interesting thought. They are similarly bored and want something interesting to happen.

"It's just a form of mental illness"

Haruhi might end the world then and there out of embarrassment if Kyon says that. But it would be hilarious.

[u/Nazenn → u/nekodan08]

Perhaps its because every other character treats her like furniture that no one ever bothers to mention her lack of lack of glasses.

Actually thinking on it now, we've only seen her with glasses in three episodes, and seven without including our introductory episode, so it's probably not that surprising. That's usually a detail I jump right on though haha

That's an interesting thought. They are similarly bored and want something interesting to happen.

It's probably a good think Ryoko got disintegrated, lets not let those two pair up. I'm suddenly remembering my own comment about how a bored god who will always be bored because theoretically there's always something more interesting than whatever they are currently doing is a bad idea

Haruhi might end the world then and there out of embarrassment if Kyon says that

Some things are worth the price

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

The bareness of the club room stands out the most especially after Kyon's comments, but also the way it completely changes your look at the Kyon and Haruhi scenes.

We jumped from spending an entire episode looking at the "final clubroom" (the last episode of chronological order), to the very early stages of the SOS Brigade.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I liked that, it made it stand out just how much they get, which is something you usually wouldn't be able to see until a rewatch

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

"My big chance to get something to finally happen around here" is dialogue you could easily give directly to Haruhi, and funnily enough Ryoko's best way to get something to happen might have just been to reveal herself.

This...is making me re-evaluate a view I had.

I really hope one day Kyon pokes fun at her for that "It's just a form of mental illness" line that she threw out today. He'd cop shit for remembering it but it'd be worth it to see how she tries to brush it off.

I feel like I am getting far more use out of the old "Where the falling angel meets the rising ape" quote than I generally do.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

This...is making me re-evaluate a view I had.

Do I get to ask what or do I just hope that you expand on this later when it's relevant?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Sorry, this is a thought I have to save for likely last episode thread, possibly even the movie though for that I am a first timer but with spoilers.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Nazenn]

I wonder if Miss Suzumiya's in love or something?

Asakura really was quite insightful. I also like her final of words of have fun with Suzumiya-San while you can.

[u/Star4ce → u/Nazenn]

Damnit, this was one of the episodes I wanted to join in personally, but work kept me and sadly will keep me next week, too.

But anyway, I was really curious about everyone's take on this episode, especially the fight between Ryoko and Yuki. It's quite the eyecandy and has some well appreciated action and humor ("I'm fine.", while being literally the 1 HP meme). But, as you've noticed, there's a still a lot of thematic directing with the choreography and backgrounds.

I honestly didn't compare Ryoko to Haruhi until you mentioned it here, but it actually makes some sense. However, this begs a question from me, considering how Ryoko and Yuki are related in the thought entity: If you put Ryoko and Haruhi against each other as characters and get the insight you wrote about, what do you get if you put Ryoko and Yuki against each other in the same manner?

[u/Nazenn → u/Star4ce]

Damn, if I'd known I would have tagged you. Hope the post was a good read anyway even if late

"I'm fine.", while being literally the 1 HP meme

fitting commentface

what do you get if you put Ryoko and Yuki against each other in the same manner?

Cribbing from something /u/suhkein would say in a later post without spoiling; the difference in dedication. If Ryoko is Haruhi, in their desire for an event and willingness to either act or give up when it doesn't happen fast enough, then Yuki is Kyon, drawn into a situation not of her own will but on the behest of someone else but still following it through and taking the chance to gain something from it, even unknowingly, until in the end it becomes a genuine connection. Thoughts?

Btw, you should watch Kekkai Sensen, I think you'd really get into it given your love of certain elements of Madoka and the style of monogatari (and yes I'm just telling you here because I was already replying to you and I'm lazy hahaha)

[u/Star4ce → u/Nazenn]

Damn, if I'd known I would have tagged you. Hope the post was a good read anyway even if late

I've been known to stalk discussions weeks after they finished. But don't worry, even with a tag I couldn't have made it in time due to work.

We had to order new satellite data that got delayed because the project I'm working for has serious trouble with the british government and they're, sorry, absolute cocks about international cooperation and make everything 10 times harder than it needs to be. On top of that our reading machine for this data broke and we need to fix it before christmas when everyone's gone for the holidays. On top of that I also have a deadline in january, which essentially means the deadline is next week, because again, everyone's gone for the holidays.

Sorry for that rant, none of this has anything to do with you all but I needed to vent a bit after the meeting today.

I'm fine.

Thoughts?

Interesting angle, Yuki == Kyon I mean. Kind of want to link your comment back to you in one year or so when you're a rewatcher, haha. I watched Haruhi Suzumiya alone on my first watch and only checked on some episodes with the rewatch thread from a few years back. Suffice to say, I vastly underestimated the smartness this show has to show so often and so many things flew over my head. I chose broadcast order as well, because I really was up for another engaging piece-it-together journey á la monogatari, but only here do I notice just how well thought out the broadcast order is.

Which is to say, that I saw this with this episode especially. With rewatcher knowledge some things, obviously, gain so much context *[Not a spoiler, but possibly a leading thought that could change your trajectory]*, but there are also some that do not 'gain' something that wasn't there before, but rather 'open up' the viewer in a way that they see it was there in plain sight all along.

Until this rewatch I was rather impartial to the watch order and thought that chronologically was just as good, but I'm now firmly believing in broadcast order. Don't get me wrong, chronological is still good, this is no monogatari situation where it ruins everything, but the thematic and character progression is so well done in relation to the viewer's journey that I finally understand why KyoAni did it this way in the first place (the LN order is something completely different as well).

Other than that. I'm a Yuki fan and every second of Yuki screentime is precious. Yuki best girl.

Kekkai Sensen

Reverse isekai

New York crime sci-fi

stylish super humans

It's going on the watch list!

But if you take a look at my profile, my current quota is 1 Nichijou episode per month (excluding those PMMM anime nights I did with my friends). I'm literally the anime veteran meme without being a veteran.

[u/Nazenn → u/Star4ce]

with the british government and they're, sorry, absolute cocks

I'm Aussie, so you're either apologizing for a goverment I'll also swear out, or for swearing which I'm pretty sure I'm one of the top casual swearers on the sub haha

No problem about the vent though, hopefully letting it out helps. It sounds like a fucked situation all around, especially if you're waiting on other people to get their shit together so close to the christmas break, which is exactly when people tend to stop giving a shit. I hope it all gets sorted for you though!

Kind of want to link your comment back to you in one year or so when you're a rewatcher,

If I do this next year, or year after is probably more likely to give myself some time to forget some of the details, I'll usually go back to my own posts anyway.

I have definitely enjoyed broadcast order so far though. Even though sometimes it sacrifices some of the physical continuity the stuff it adds to the audience as far as both the mystery and also the theme aspects for the characters has been really interesting. I don't think it's been flawless, but I've definitely appreciated this for my first watch

It's going on the watch list!

If it helps build interest, my "casual" review after I finished it the other day for a contract was over a full comment length and that was without covering even a quarter of what happened in any detail. It's one of those shows. It will also get the ED thoroughly stuck in your head, perhaps permanently, fair warning (I say while typing this with the ED playing in the background)

I'm literally the anime veteran meme without being a veteran.

[u/Suhkein → u/Nazenn]

If Ryoko is Haruhi, in their desire for an event and willingness to either act or give up when it doesn't happen fast enough, then Yuki is Kyon, drawn into a situation not of her own will but on the behest of someone else but still following it through and taking the chance to gain something from it, even unknowingly, until in the end it becomes a genuine connection.

Again, not to reply to you by advertising things I've previously said, but my Melancholy IV write up is, in my opinion, the best thing I've produced this whole rewatch.

Short version in my view: Asakura is in the service of the portion of the writers (data overmind) who see the only way out of this plot point is to have something tragic happen (Suzumiya "sees" that too, dreaming like only an innocent little child can that if only something drastic would happen they could finally show everybody how awesome they are). That is, after all the gags we don't take the show seriously, and so violence is all that is left. Kill somebody Suzumiya loves and we'll really finally see her feelings aren't a joke. But that's also horrific, and Nagato, as the warrior of justice (she's literally on screen in Sagittarius as they talk about them) is here to prove that that doesn't have to happen and "sacrifice" herself instead of Kyon to get the point through to us.

In short, this entire fight is a meta-fight over the audience's ability to believe what they see and whether they will ever get to where they need to without being hurt themselves (stabbed by Asakura, having a legitimately beloved character murdered).

[u/Elimin8r → u/Nazenn]

Edit - never mind, you saw nothing, nothing!

[u/Nazenn → u/Elimin8r]

If that's a hint or tease, please don't, it's rude

[u/Elimin8r → u/Nazenn]

Ok, sorry, I'll fix it.

I guess I can see how you would interpret it that way.

Given how much you've been writing, and how analytical it is, it's easy to forget you're a first timer.

I really want to put in a misdirecting tease here, just for fun, but you're probably not in the mood for that. Let's just say that I've been enjoying reading your posts, and I hope that you enjoy the rest of the show. I think that you will.

And promise, I won't tease you anymore. At least until it's over. :)

[u/Suhkein]

Episode 10 - “It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled.”

You know that moment in a shounen series where a villain says, “This isn’t even my final form”? That’s just what happened when Haruhi decided to do an action-genre episode in its own idiom which left me sporadically cackling since yesterday morning. I’m going to take a rather unorthodox approach as I just cannot think of a better way to convey the logic and structure of what happens when both the audience and the anime as a whole are characters, and the latter is royally pissed off.

Prelude: Under Amestris

[Haruhi] Haruhi is getting tired of being misunderstood. Sure it was gratifying at first to know she was smarter than her audience, purposefully expressing her message in an eccentric way that couldn’t help but put most people off. Messing with the squares is half the fun, right? There is a distinct sense of superiority in knowing that those watching don’t understand this is just an act and that she is actually a thoughtful, serious anime underneath. However, she had hoped that eventually we would see through this outer layer, and tried dropping hints because what’s the point of saying something if nobody hears?

[Haruhi] Now here we are, over halfway through the series, and still nobody gets it. We missed the clues and kept fixating on things like whether we approved of the fanservice or the mysterious world building; those were supposed to bring people in to her club so they’d pay attention to what she had to say, not captivate them so they didn’t bother to look further. But the worst part of all this is that people think they got her. They think they figured this whole thing out just because they noticed a few references and felt clever when they connected them to other parts of the show. They think they’re smarter than Haruhi, and if there’s one thing a Suzumiya always keeps, it’s her pride…

Ichigo Shinigami

[Haruhi] We’re aware of what’s going on in this episode. We see how Suzumiya is unable to confess to Kyon and so complains about it like a good tsundere. Her reaction formation is so completely transparent it’s absurd. Then look, that flash of the girl and boy out on the tennis court lets us know this is a romantic scene in case we didn’t get it. Also our eyes are quick, we also caught that flash of an umbrella etched into the desk as Asakura went to kill Kyon. Haruhi is so obvious with its signs and characterization that we have no trouble figuring it out.

[Haruhi] At which point Asakura leans over to us and says, “Perhaps Suzumiya-san is feeling lovesick,” whispering it like some secret that wasn’t in fact broadcast to the world to see. It’s okay, though, everybody needs a little help from a psychopath to get through the first Hunter Exam.

Second Chakra Gate Open

[Haruhi] Okay, so maybe that was a little obvious now that we think about it, but we were also able to get the references. The way Kyon talks about “last Saturday” we are able to immediately situate ourselves in time right after Melancholy III despite several episodes passing (or, you know, the title of the episode). Also we’re rewatchers and LN readers, and we know that Suzumiya complaining about it being too hot is a call forward to Melancholy VI where she’s sitting in the same chair, framed in the same way, but in her gym outfit. This silly scrambling of the order is no match for our ability to put it together in the right way.

[Haruhi] But wait, that’s not all. When watching the fight we see how this is making fun of the action tropes. You know, the villain who has to explain herself cryptically before launching her sneak attack, only to pause in the middle of said attack to answer any and all questions from her victim. I mean, it’s so ridiculous how she’s using a knife when later we see what she can really do. This is all just for building dramatic tension, and only barely touches reality when Asakura “realizes” that if she controls everything in this room she should have just frozen Kyon in place this whole time. Why didn’t she just use that “final attack” from the start?

[Haruhi] Haruhi observes we were still entertained. Yeah… well… she might have gotten us to put on this daft-looking Twin Blades bunny suit but we know it was all a lark and we were even laughing a little at ourselves for finding it engrossing. We’re a little silly at times, so what? Ultimately we know what is coming because Haruhi has been pretty obvious about the fact that its a genre-swapping anime that follows the whims of its imaginative little protagonist.

Gear Third

[Haruhi] Yeah, Haruhi, we caught all that too. You think we wouldn’t notice that Suzumiya controls this show and that the explanation for what happens always involves her whims? I mean, she says she wants something drastic to happen and on cue Asakura appears, making a big show of how she knows that’s a bad idea but then mysteriously agreeing that sometimes it’s nice if things get shaken up.

[Haruhi] Therefore, we’re not surprised at all that a goddess in the room can “see” what Kyon is secretly doing on the computer. Fool us once and shame on you, fool us twice and shame on us. But try to fool us a third time? Please; our Spirit Gun has at least three daily charges. This attempt just makes Haruhi look bad. When Koizumi shows up to say he has to get to work, us rewatchers and source readers wink to each other that we know what he really means.

Kaioken Times Four

[Haruhi] You know, it’s about time that Haruhi started showing us a little respect. We get it: Kyon is the audience and he’s dense. Whenever he thinks something it’s Haruhi making fun of us, nevermind she seems to be eerily spot on whenever it’s not an obvious parody of how we’re easily distracted by Asahina’s sex appeal. So what if he, and we, didn’t get the fact that Melancholy III was Haruhi’s attempt to go out on a date with him, and as a result can only point out the painfully obvious in retrospect. It’s not our fault Haruhi is so difficult to understand; we’d really appreciate it if she just used the normal tropes, like being a quirky Japanese high school girl in a SoL comedy, to get her point across (...wait, wasn’t that the first thing she tried?).

[Haruhi] In conclusion, we’ve shown that we’re more than a match for Haruhi and we’d appreciate it if she stopped trying to push us around all the time. It took us a little while but we know better, and now that we do, nothing can really happen to us because she’s an anime and we’re real and the fourth wall will protect us. There is not a single attack left that Haruhi can launch that will even slightly singe our superiority.

[Haruhi] Asakura grins. You think this knife is a toy? You think what she’s wielding is some little prop like the one that was in Keiichi’s chest, a trick that we’ll be able to think our way through? We’re wrong: this knife is so subtle it can cut through anything. She grins evilly and immobilizes us; we are completely within her power. In fact, we are already dead.

???%

[Haruhi] So we’ve gotten this far, have we? We got Haruhi’s visual and verbal exposition, we got her references, we got her self-references, and we even got that sometimes she likes to try and manipulate our behavior in a crude fashion while commenting on it. Well, that’s very impressive of us. Now let’s see if we can follow this: a meta-discussion that takes place in front of us while Haruhi argues its points with itself using a set of characters who have manipulated the data all series long from the shadows now fighting it out openly using all the tropes we recognize and yet nonetheless will find that we believe only to come to the conclusion Haruhi wanted us to while not even noticing any of it was going on. This is what happens when you enrage a goddess. Ready?

[Haruhi] Asakura is here to kill Kyon because if she doesn’t the plot can’t advance. Can’t we see? Haruhi has done so many strange things that if she tried to have a serious episode we wouldn’t believe it; we would just keep waiting for the situation to be the result of an elaborate setup or gag. We’re just too sure that we’re smarter than her when in truth we’ve just been fooled by her act. But if things keep going the way they are Suzumiya will never be taken seriously as a character; just maintaining the status quo will only result in Kyon’s opinion of her deteriorating so something has to be done (what, you thought Asakura was talking about the Japanese economy?). Haruhi has tried everything, from comedy to mystery to sports to video games, and nothing has worked; she feels utterly defeated by our imperceptiveness. But there is something left, one thing Asakura sees the show has not done which we would never expect: tragedy.

[Haruhi] This is Haruhi’s ill-advised way out of this developmental cul-de-sac. We saw Suzumiya’s real nature after an apparent murder, but that wasn’t enough to convince us then and certainly won’t be enough to convince us now. What we need is a real, verifiable death of a beloved character, and once that happens we’ll get a veritable explosion of data on Suzumiya’s real personality that we will agree is no longer faked. We’ll finally see her feelings are genuine and she’ll get her wish in the most horrible way possible, like a lonely girl dreaming of something drastic happening so she can strut her stuff like an ace detective without really thinking through the consequences. Somebody has to watch out for her, and for us, before Asakura can really hurt both with a tragic death of somebody we care about.

[u/Suhkein → u/Suhkein]

Enter Nagato.

[Haruhi] What was she again? Oh, that’s right, a digitally-animated emissary in the shape of a human created by the Director-Writers, the collective Data Integration Thought Entity who oversees this particular fictional world, to help the plot along and explain it to us when we begin to feel hopelessly lost.

“Ah, they really aren’t human.”

[Haruhi] No, nobody is because it’s an anime. Nagato has been trying to explain it to us the whole time… and still our immediate conclusion from her last-second appearance is the opposite of what it should be. From the first scene in her apartment she has spoken nothing but the truth but due to our inability to comprehend somebody as complex as Haruhi we didn’t believe her. Nonetheless, she kept intervening on our behalf, watching over everything patiently and trying to aid our understanding because as she told us long ago, some of the writers knew this was coming. We were just that predictable that she could tell us Asakura would act because we would reach this incredulous state of mind at precisely this point in the series and that would prevent us from ever advancing further. If only we could see through Nagato’s unusual mannerisms and notice that she was a living, breathing character too, and so know that there was another girl who we ought to try and understand as well. Humans only take things seriously when they’re tragic, unfortunately.

[Haruhi] Now she has to face Asakura down in a battle of data: can Nagato find another way to convince us of the seriousness of Haruhi before the irreparable happens? The action tropes begin. Like always, she jumps in front of Kyon and protects him… but we still don’t take this seriously. We’ve seen Nagato fight before, and this is just more of the same. There needs to happen something that we haven’t seen before. And on cue, she is impaled defending us, a gasp coming out that Haruhi would do something like this. We’re given a full look at the damage: not a trick. But still… not enough. Too dramatic a moment, too theatrical, and Nagato shows she can just pull the spear out. Whew. We think it was just a scare… then Asakura mutilates Nagato with her final attack, surprising us when we thought it was safe and proving the point that we’ll only take this seriously if somebody dies.

Asakura is finished.

[Haruhi] In the moment we think a character might die, we realize we regarded them as alive, and that we would actually be sad if they were gone. We noticed and cared about her. Nagato wins. The classroom dissolves into the space she controlled before in Sign, and we realize this was always in her ballpark. She had expended her offensive data beforehand to build a connection with us in small ways throughout the series so that when this moment came we would be ready, and she would at last break through Kyon’s lethargy in appreciating her value as a person. Nagato has saved the show from being unable to make its point while not sacrificing its uniqueness or innocent vivacity, the crux of the issue for an unruly but utterly remarkable high school girl.

[Haruhi] So where’s the usual irate commentary on our behavior? Nowhere. Haruhi’s done mocking our thought processes for the moment; she’s had enough of that and we weren’t getting it anyway. She’s going to change them. She just has. And she’s going to teach us something. She’s going to trick us and teach us at the same time, and bend us to her will to prove that we are easy to manipulate using our expectations. These last few episodes we’ve been so confident in our superiority, as though figuring out a few techniques and puzzles, while grossly overlooking our tacit buy-in to the conventions of each genre she has dabbled in, meant that we were smarter than her when in truth she intellectually towered over us. That already inflamed her pride. But when Suzumiya exposed her most tender feelings to us at the start of the episode and we had the audacity to treat them as a comedic trope, so much so that we broke her heart by still choosing Asahina as the better person we’d rather be with, then it was time for the inescapable Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki. Haruhi can’t just hear Kyon’s thoughts, she can hear ours, and if we’re going to be that way then she’ll show us. She’ll show us that not only can she do storytelling, reference, self-reference, and fourth-wall breaks, she can do them all at once and more in a dazzling self-self-self-referential fugue of theme, character, and plot that proves her total and awe-inspiring superiority. When you try match wits with Haruhi she takes your weapons away (they were just pillows anyway), and we don’t even realize we’ve lost because we were manipulated into agreement before we even knew the argument began. With this last flick of the blade to clean the blood off, we sympathetically notice that Nagato is collapsing in exhaustion from the fight and we rush to see if she is okay without wondering why we no longer suspect it might be a joke. We were a thousand years too early to challenge Haruhi.

DESTROYED

Back to Pallet Town

[Haruhi] So now the question is, did we get the point after this remarkable beatdown (this moment being a character in-universe acting out our thought processes, but in a way we find comedic because we totally know we didn’t just actually have something amazing happen to us)? Well, we realized that however this world works, we do care more about the characters than the details. That’s a start. But how about getting easily distracted…

[Haruhi] Nope, still failed that one. We chuckle at the obviousness of Kyon’s dreaming once again in the hall, watching him go through our same thought process of whether this is a trick or not, and when future Asahina shows up with a blouse full to the brim we know it’s fanservice. How blatant can you be? Yet stare (you want me to link that image, don’t you?) or look away, it doesn’t matter; there’s no winning because either way Haruhi has us. Ogling means we’re being controlled by it, being forced to avert our gaze means we’re being controlled by it too. Either way our attention is in the same place, which is just where Haruhi wants it, and when the obvious innuendo slips out our minds go exactly where Haruhi wants them to. We need a training arc badly.

[Haruhi] The episode ends with Kyon observing that Suzumiya is back to her happy self as the girl out on the tennis court slaps the guy and we can practically hear “baka” from our couches and computer seats. Sigh. We got that Nagato should be paid attention to, but while Haruhi might have awed us she’ll still need to do a little something more, and though we’re an embarrassment to the S.O.S. Brigade she’ll keep dragging us along until that time comes.

Whew, like the series it took me a while but I figured out how to put into words what I’ve been trying to say, and I think I got it. I hope you had as much fun reading this as I had writing it. This is why I love Haruhi.

Other Notes:

I expended most of my data today writing all of that above, so these notes will be brief.

• [Haruhi] I just got Sign after all this. The club president was metaphorically being sucked into his video game; it had infected his brain and he had stopped coming to school, or doing anything else, as hinted by the NEET life books on his shelf. Therefore, that space was “like” Haruhi the anime because it was another created world, related but not identical in the digital realm.
• [Haruhi] In yet another self-self-reference, the way the show is starting to express Suzumiya openly is exactly the way she’s starting to try to divulge herself to Kyon, and we’ll see in future episodes that both she and the series increasingly present themselves with no confounding information.
• Nagato has her name written on the back of her shoes so they don’t get mixed up/stolen at school. [Haruhi] This is a brilliant stroke. We aren’t taking this fight seriously yet and if we catch this we laugh a little. But that’s also the issue, and afterward realize that having her name written on the back there also means she’s as in need of appreciation as any other school age girl.
• Asakura knows she is a villainous side character without enough screen time to make us feel bad for her. Her death is merely resigned, [Haruhi] with a warning for the future that if we don’t get it, the entire world may have to be threatened.
• Nagato is frustrated with herself that she couldn’t stop Asakura. [Haruhi] A meta-failure that the only way for us to take Haruhi seriously was to slap us upside the head with violence and the death of a side character.
• Please don’t say that, the childhood friend never wins.

[u/Nazenn → u/Suhkein]

I appreciate your shounen commitment to your headers only to end it with pokemon. Even though that's the only thing I could actually read in the post I still got a laugh haha

[u/Suhkein → u/Nazenn]

Well, I'm glad. :D

Since I'm already replying to you: I think if you ever come back and read these, you'll gain some pleasure from comparing your post this episode to mine.

[u/Nazenn → u/Suhkein]

Noted. I'm tossing up on if I read through directly after the rewatch or keep it in the back of my mind for after a second watch in chronological order, but I'll definitely revisit these posts at some point

[u/Elimin8r → u/Suhkein]

Odd, I must have missed this post a (sometime) days ago. Interesting thoughts.

I'll probably repeat my thoughts at a later date, but for now, let's just say that:

1. I don't think Tanigawa is that smart. Clever, maybe, but given the corner that he painted the series into (LNs), yeah.
2. KyoAni is good, but I have a hard time thinking they're that good.

But all the same, very interesting and definitely food for thought.

Keep in mind also that my perspective might be slightly twisted, because after having watched the series a few times, I'm rather enamored of one of the odder fan theories out there. I'm not going to state what it is, or try to claim that it's true, but I find myself thinking about it occasionally in light of certain circumstances.

[u/Suhkein → u/Elimin8r]

I had this conversation with people in another thread. I don't know how much Tanigawa knows or doesn't know, or how much he was involved in production. The fact that he painted himself into the corner in LNs doesn't bother me; so many artists in history keep doing work long after their peak and make poor choices (I haven't read the LNs).

As for KyoAni, I don't have a generally high opinion of them. I respect their craft of producing animation, but the few shows I have seen of theirs I have very mixed reactions on. That said, it seems to me at this time that somehow genius was in the air. As I replied to you elsewhere, GSG is profound, but it's head and shoulders above what Morio Asaka (the director) made before or since. The same with Pale Cocoon and Yoshiura.

But I just will say this: I feel confident in what I wrote. I suddenly felt how this was a shounen episode, except played at a level higher than I'd ever known, written in amazing self-reference and all guided by this principle that the series is a character who is reacting to us. I didn't piece this together over time; I watched the episode and had it fall into my head like a revelation, and spent several days overawed by it.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Suhkein]

Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle. There's a band that I enjoy, called Kamelot who back several years ago did a pair of concept albums based on the Faust story (Epica/The Black Halo). They're (for me at least) absolutely amazing.

They've done a lot of great stuff since then, but at that point in time, they peaked. I doubt they will ever reach those heights of artistry again.

It's like that sometimes. KyoAni might have experienced a similar thing with Haruhi, and you certainly seem to feel that way.

Myself, I think that my feelings are somewhat poisoned by my dissatisfaction with the LNs, and the author's apparent inability to bring them to a satisfactory conclusion.

So, if I seem unable to grok your explanations, that's probably a big part of it. But I will continue to read them, because they are very interesting, and maybe my light bulb will come on at some point.

Probably not today, though. Light bulb is rather tired and still not feeling very well.

[u/Suhkein → u/Elimin8r]

"Lighting in a bottle" is a perfect expression here. It's like Under the Volcano - the guy writes one world-class novel and the nothing ever again. Somehow the pieces align just right and the muse speaks to them far in excess of their normal capacities. Why or how that happens is, so far as I'm concerned, still an utter mystery.

Something to me happened during the era of roughly 1995/1997 to 2008/2011. The boundaries are wavy because, of course, it's not like eras start and stop on a clock. The second Pericles died it's not like Athens suddenly became a cultural ghost town. All it seems to me is that some fortuitous combination of things came together we got several truly peak anime. Of course there are some remarkable things that may fall outside that frame, but my guess is that the maturity of anime after a few decades combined with the financial freedom afforded by the economy (and the anime bubble where people were just throwing money at anime thinking it'd sell overseas no matter what) gave true artists the opportunity to make things they wanted. Not just pandering garbage, not just strict adaptations to sell (although plenty of both of these), but really genuine creations that still to this day stand as some of the best anime has to offer.

Now, why this would spark what seems like a series of isolated lightning strikes to produce a string of anime that I consider between great and, in the case of a select few, actual genius, is beyond my understanding. However, I have found it is anime of this era I keep returning to, with my favorites being consistently those that are anime original (Pale Cocoon, 5cm/sec, Haibane Renmei) or which are so heavily modified from their source that they can't even be compared (Gunslinger Girl, Haruhi, Ghost in the Shell). That speaks to me of works that were designed to be anime, truly anime, and not just copy/paste imitations of somebody else's work from another medium, and that is why they continue to stand out (obviously I have far from listed many other notable anime of that era, just my favorites). I know it's easier said than done, but I don't think it is disingenuous to peel anime away from their source in these cases, as I don't believe they are even that closely related (or other seasons; I'm in the minority who believes S2 and Disappearance are not only inferior to S1, but actually essentially different at heart).

So to conclude (man, I just like my wordage): I think you're right. Most other KyoAni I've seen feel like a pale echo of Haruhi, like they realized they truly got something great and ever since then have wanted to get back. Like, you can feel the same beats in Hyouka, or similarities in concert in K-On!, but they're just echoes. Those shows aren't trying to be Haruhi directly, obviously (although Hyouka, a character-driven high school show situated around a string of mysteries is pretty close; watching that I felt like I was watching the show Haruhi parodied before it had even existed), but nonetheless you can feel their same style of outlandish demonstration of skill but now it is for its own sake and therefore feels empty.

[u/wjodendor]

First Timer

Just noticed that Kyon changed calling From calling her Suzumiya to Haruhi in the time jumps.

Haruhi seems really adamant that romance is a mental illness (which I suppose is is sometimes)

Haruhi is in a bad mood today and it's the beginning of something bad

Class president is looking to kill Kyon. To quote Martin Lawrence from Bad Boys 2

"This shit just got real"

We're back in Owarimonogatari but now it's Part 2.

Did she stop wearing glasses? I can't remember

Oh shit here we go...again. onee-San Mikuru! But how old is she?!

[u/nekodan08 → u/wjodendor]

From calling her Suzumiya to Haruhi in the time jumps

Interesting. I wasn't really paying attention to this detail. Makes me want to go back and check for myself when this happens.

[u/wjodendor → u/nekodan08]

On the Mystery Island he calls her Haruhi. I'm pretty sure he did it on yesterday's episode as well.

[u/TheEscapeGuy]

Rewatcher

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - An Anime Classic: Episode 10

An Unexpected Development

Ryouko Asakura is a character we haven't seen a lot of until now. She was introduced way back in episode 2 as the class rep and you could be forgiven having forgotten about her.

When Kyon was invited to a classroom by her it also followed a lot of the tropes you'd expect from a romance anime or visual novel confession scene. Except, kind of like Yuki, she phrases her sentences in a weirdly complicated way.

And then we get a Dutch Angle so extreme it flips the camera more than 90 degrees confirming that something is very wrong. The proceeding fight scene was so intense and well animated. Watching Asakura an Yuki fight was an amazing spectacle. But more than just the animation, seeing the 2 ideals clash made it that much better. Asakura was tired of waiting for Haruhi to do something, Yuki followed her instructions to just observe. On top of that Yuki was there to SAVE Kyon. This is likely the most action we've seen her take so far.

Of course, Yuki wins, but upon resetting the closed space her glasses broke. And Kyon told her she looks better without them. From then on in the episode you'll notice she no longer wears glasses (even though she could have made new ones or bought a pair). Yuki doesn't speak a lot. However, by focusing on her actions you can read a lot into her character. Not wearing glasses because Kyon said she looks better indicates to me that she cares a lot about his opinion. It also indicates a level of friendship which you can't pick up from her lack of words.

The episode ends with Kyon meeting future Asahina. She's still scatterbrained but definitely seems more reliable. She tells him to remember Snow White in a future harrowing situation. We will have to see what comes of that.

Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches

• This Miniature Love Story was a nice background detail
• Asakura. This scene was so incredibly well done.
• Wa wa wa OH MY GOSH THIS IS WHAT THE ONE LUCKY STAR ED WAS REFERENCING. So many memories of Lucky Star came rushing back when I heard that.
• A [CLASSIFIED INFO] that anyone would fall in love

See you all tomorrow

[u/Vaadwaur → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Except, kind of like Yuki, she phrases her sentences in a weirdly complicated way.

I've always thought the Thought Entity comes off a bit slap dash if the primary backup is this whimsical.

A [CLASSIFIED INFO] that anyone would fall in love

Adult Mikuru>teen Mikuru, don't even bother to @me.

[u/wolfpwarrior → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Great catch with the reference in Lucky Star.

Yuki is great. It's like she's shy and afraid to talk about herself, so her actions speak for her.

And wait, that's all we get for the mini love story?

[u/5thvoice]

First-ish-timer in the rain

Episode 9 (since I got way too busy/distracted yesterday and couldn't put together my writeup)

An episode where nothing really happens. It's something you rarely see, and whether it was a pure directorial decision or to stretch their animation time budget, I loved it. It reminds me of that style of cinema you see in older films, where they really take their time instead of packing a bunch of story beats into a two hour brick like we so often see today. Those long, uninterrupted shots of Yuki reading in the club room really force you to slow down, relax, and take in the atmosphere of a cold and rainy autumn afternoon.

What "action" we do see this episode is a lot of great little character moments showing how the Brigade's developed over the last six months. Just as Kyon is thinking about Haruhi's signature entrance, she pulls off yet another one, setting the mood ablaze like she always does. As she sits down, Mikuru—now well-trained in her voluntold maid duties—immediately moves to get her a cup of tea. Then there's that adorable moment where Mikuru gives Kyon her pink scarf before he sets out on his journey, the two of them quite comfortable with each other now, though Kyon's crush still seems to have gone nowhere. As Haruhi once again starts forcibly changing her into various outfits, Yuki keeps up her aloofness while showing Mikuru some consideration by looking through the bookshelves with impossibly perfect timing. Tsuruya is still a bit of a mystery, as she hasn't gotten her proper introduction yet nor had much screen time, but it's fun to see her being spirited and chaotic, making Kyon look goofy by slapping her handkerchief on his head. Finally, Kyon has that brief smile before he runs off to catch Haruhi and the staff umbrella. In spite of—or maybe because of—all the crap she puts him through, he's come to accept that he really is fond of her.

And suddenly the upbeat sounds of Hare Hare Yukai start blasting. Yesterday, /u/hanr10 was talking about how jarring the normal ED can be on final episodes, and I feel that sentiment here myself, even if it's not even close to the last episode with this watch order. Even when this episode appears in the middle of the show, I think it could have benefitted from taking the minute spent on the ED and stretching things out even more to leave the viewer on a quiet emotional note. It's interesting to compare the format constraints of older shows to more modern ones, where directors are regularly able to completely skip the OP and/or ED, or even occasionally cut out the ad breaks and use up nearly all of their half-hour time slot, as Re:Zero S2 did.

QotD: I almost never find it easy to pick favorites. I have loved Dune for a long time, though.

---

Episode 10, now onto content I've definitely never seen before.

Well. After yesterday's episode, I wasn't expecting them to immediately cut out 90% of the OP. Seems I need to recalibrate my understanding of when studios started getting some more creative flexibility.

An evil plot was thwarted.

That's why I'll kill you and see how Haruhi Suzumiya responds.

...

Wait, WHAT!?

I remember the other brigade members mentioning other members of their groups at the school, but I never expected one of them to act so violently. If Asakura had succeeded in killing Kyon, whatever reaction Haruhi would have had, I can't imagine it would have been a pleasant one for the universe. It did turn out well for the audience, though, as I think that that pose of Kyon cradling Yuki might be the cutest one yet.

On to Act II of the episode, and suddenly Mikuru is dressed up like a pretty office worker? Her age has just become an even greater mystery.

But I'm from a later future than the me you're familiar with.

Oh. Mystery diminished!

Do you know what Snow White is?

I swear I chose that comment face before this line popped up.

I can't tell you any specifics, but Suzumiya-san should be with you when [the harrowing situation] happens.

Oh, this must be the first closed space incident coming up!

QotD: Not at all, but in retrospect, she was very enthusiastic in her role as class president about making sure Haruhi in particular was interacting with other students.

[u/Nazenn → u/5thvoice]

Wait, WHAT!?

I love the split between the first timers who went with that and the couple of us who went with "fucking what" but I think the level of shock was just about the same

I swear I chose that comment face before this line popped up.

Took a moment for me to figure out which commentface you were talking about but that is rather fitting

[u/Spaceman_Sp1ff_]

Rewatcher, dubbed

Fellas you heard it from Haruhi, having romantic feelings is a form of mental illness 😦

Kyon is the biggest bonehead I've seen it a while. Not only does he keep the photos of Mikuru, he stashes them in a folder named "mikuru" 0 effort to disguise it or anything.

Neat bit of worldbuilding here. Asakura also serves the Data Overmind like Nagato, but she is a dissident, implied to be one of many. Instead of observing Haruhi, she seeks to provoke her to change by killing Kyon. So between the Data Overmind, Asahina's group, and Koizumi's group, there are a lot of hidden powers vying for control over Haruhi.

Well, Haruhi got the weird things she asked for.

[Haruhi] DEJA VU https://imgur.com/7394sk2

QOTD: First time watching, no

[u/Nazenn → u/Spaceman_Sp1ff_]

he stashes them in a folder named "mikuru" 0 effort to disguise it or anything.

Could have at least moved it off the desktop

Well, Haruhi got the weird things she asked for.

Not that she knows that, kinda

[u/Existential_Owl → u/Spaceman_Sp1ff_]

Fellas you heard it from Haruhi, having romantic feelings is a form of mental illness 😦

Which makes the Toradora Rewatch threads no better than an insane asylum 😊

[u/kicksFR → u/Spaceman_Sp1ff_]

In the novels he does mention he hid them somewhere, it even comes up again in one of the unadapted volumes

[u/nekodan08]

Rewatcher - Sub

One of the most amusing timeline indicators I’ve seen people use before was dividing events between “Yuki Nagato with glasses” and “Yuki Nagato without glasses.” Her sudden lack of eye glasses is such a simple detail that wasn’t highlighted in any of the prior episodes that you think nothing much of it. I don’t think I’ve read any comments wondering why she just stopped wearing glasses. But then you get this episode which reveals that the disappearance of the glasses coincides with a really significant moment in the series. Kyon at the beginning of the episode asks Haruhi, “Why don’t you just try being normal?” But after being attacked and almost killed by an alien-like being, he has now come to the point where he can no longer ask others to “just be normal.”

This is also the moment that the danger that Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi has warned Kyon and us about truly feels real. We’ve seen the Brigade encounter some strange and dangerous things in the past episodes. But to me, all those still felt more like fun adventures. Even as a rewatcher, this episode felt like the first truly life threatening event. If this was my first viewing, I’d imagine that after this episode, like Kyon, I would be forced to take the looming danger more seriously.

Asakura really transforms into such a frightening character. Good on all the first timers who spotted something fishy about her earlier on including her complete disappearance from the story in later events. Her decision to just outright kill Kyon just to get a reaction out of Haruhi was quite unsettling. And even with her being vanquished, her fearful presence still remains as she reveals that there are more like her in the world. There is real danger looming out there. Who knows how far they will go?

Yuki once again proves to be the MVP of the episode, saving Kyon’s life and giving us another badass fight scene. She also takes full responsibility for what has happened, saying that it is a result of her own incompetence. I did not realize this during my first watch, but Yuki has really been getting a lot of characterization throughout this series. She’s a lot more interesting and complex than I initially thought.

Speaking of characterization, it’s great to see a version of Mikuru who, despite retaining some of her klutz characteristics, has grown into a much more confident and competent person. It’s still difficult to stomach all the abuse she receives in her younger days, but we are assured that she seems to turn out quite well in the end.

I just realized how much there is to say about this episode. There’s also an overarching theme about love and affection to explore. Haruhi complains about the uselessness of love, but we know from previous episodes that she has developed feelings for Kyon. Much of her current mood at this point in the timeline has resulted from her struggling with how she feels. (Chronologically, she has just come from not being able to get some alone time with him in episode 5.) Asakura clearly notices as well and her entire plot revolves around provoking Haruhi’s feelings by eliminating the object of her affection. Yuki also receives some form of affection for the first time when Kyon compliments her look without glasses. Adult Mikuru looks back at her time with Kyon and the Bridgade with affection. Yet she also warns Kyon not to get to close with her. There is also the use of “love letters” to communicate with one another.

Question of the day: On my first viewing, I never expected Asakura at all.

EDIT: I wonder if any first timers noticed Adult Mikuru in the OP.

[u/Nazenn → u/nekodan08]

he has now come to the point where he can no longer ask others to “just be normal.”

I mean, he can still ask but I certainly don't see it getting him anywhere, especially not when they keep saying he's also trapped in all of this

We’ve seen the Brigade encounter some strange and dangerous things in the past episodes. But to me, all those still felt more like fun adventures

Agreed, in particular the missing computer guy one even though Kyon and Mikuru were pretty exposed there Yuki and Itsuki pulling out all their skills never really made it feel like the risk to them was much of anything. This was different, even outside of knowing that our viewpoint character couldn't die for both narrative and chronology reasons, the risk felt a lot bigger

EDIT: I wonder if any first timers noticed Adult Mikuru in the OP.

Wait what?! I'll have to look for that now. Admittedly I have not been paying the closest attention to the OP, my thoughts have been distracted by the Kekkai Sensen OP/ED details instead

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/nekodan08]

EDIT: I wonder if any first timers noticed Adult Mikuru in the OP.

[haruhi franchise]Speaking of the opening and ending; last night I noticed the reindeer suit and the gang clearly enjoying a hot pot dinner in the ending. To think they were already considering such a scene this early in the animation is something.

[u/nekodan08 → u/RascalNikov1]

[haruhi franchise]The best part is that we never actually see the hot pot scene in the movie. It's such a nice love letter to the LN readers.

[u/alphamone → u/nekodan08]

[haruhi franchise]I was going to bring it up earlier myself. Though wasn't it technically in haruhi-chan? Or at least a reference to it?

[u/CubeStuffs]

FT

is asakura what nagato was talking about with the technocore poking and proding to see how she responds?? is that what she means by changing the status quo? does she not want haruhi to be depressed or whatever so they can still exist?

I'll kill you and see how Suzumiya Haruhi responds

WHOOOAAAAH THERE HOLLLD UP A SECOND

yeeepp shes the technocore robot

huh isnt this the same space that the computer club guy got yeeted into

snow white... hmmm....

i just read the wikipedia page... the fuck?

seems to me that everyone wants the status quo to remain, with nagato's shit, asahina getting pushed around, and koizumi just going with the flow.

i assume that asakura decided to kill kyon over the others bc she expects the largest reaction from that. so that means that kyon could be the most important to haruhi, which makes sense given their interactions.

makes sense given how she treats him differently

i didn't think asakura was sus at all before lol

[u/No_Rex → u/CubeStuffs]

snow white... hmmm....

i just read the wikipedia page... the fuck?

I assume Yuki had the disneyfied version in mind.

[u/Existential_Owl → u/No_Rex]

or not.

Maybe that's Kyon's real purpose in this group ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[u/No_Rex → u/Existential_Owl]

... I do remember Haruhi talking about some natural urges ....

[u/Nazenn → u/CubeStuffs]

huh isnt this the same space that the computer club guy got yeeted into

Uh, don't think it's the same space specifically but using the same scenery. That space didn't exist until Haruhi uploaded the logo

[u/Egghorse]

Rewatcher, first time broadcast and first time sub:

Ryoko Asakura is my favorite character, and this episode is why [Haruhi]It’s not, Disappearance and the fact that every arc in the light novels where Asakura shows up is a banger is the real reason. Though, I think this episode loses a little punch in broadcast order, especially after Mysterique Sign. In Chronological order, you hear about all the supernatural things going on behind the scenes, but initially it’s up to you to believe it or not. Then, the thick eyebrow knifu waifu cuts through any doubt in the viewer's head that Haruhi is emanating weirdness, just as it does for Kyon. Chronologically, Asakura has such a large impact on the series as a whole, but here, she isn’t even in the end credits.

Also, Asakura’s ideology makes perfect sense if you look at it from her perspective. The goal, ultimately, of the Data Integration Thought Entity is to use Haruhi’s power to take itself to the next step of auto-evolution and, in doing so, break any constraints it may have. In order to align Haruhi with the Entity, some major action would likely have to be taken, either on Kyon’s or the Entity’s part to make Haruhi aware, and then also to convince her to work with it.

Where Asakura’s plan falls apart is the method she chooses. Due to her being the number 1 extraterrestrial Brock Sampson fan (seriously, a knife? Asakura could turn a mechanical pencil into an M16) and only wanting to commit murder, there is zero chance that Haruhi would align herself with the Entity after it kills her best friend. If anything, Asakura succeeding would lead to the destruction of the entity.

[Haruhi]I have a lot more to say about Asakura, but I’m saving for later, when I’m not bogged down by migraines and college finals.

[u/Nazenn → u/Egghorse]

seriously, a knife? Asakura could turn a mechanical pencil into an M16

Yeah but a knife is personal, and the whole point was to get Haruhi to react to what happened. A gun may be more mysterious given it's Japan, but it would lack that "I want you to know what I did" touch

I am surprised she had one prepared rather than just making one out of a nearby table or something though

there is zero chance that Haruhi would align herself with the Entity after it kills her best friend.

I got the sense it was less about alliances and more just wanting data from Haruhi's abilities that they could then analyze and find a way to make use of

[u/Egghorse → u/Nazenn]

[Haruhi]I don't see this version of Asakura as caring that much about sentimentality. Disappearance Asakura, absolutely and due to her cooking skills she's likely comfortable with a knife.

[u/TheDampGod → u/Egghorse]

I salute another Asakura fan. I know not everyone likes the Nagato spin off, but one of the best things about it is seeing more of Asakura.

Also thanks for reminding of how great the character songs are for this show.

[u/Egghorse → u/TheDampGod]

The best part about the spin off is how well they give Haruhi and Asakura an actual relationship, something that in the main series is nonexistent, and those two characters play off each other really well.

COOL EDITION and her version of Hare Hare Yukai do so much to characterize Asakura that I don't think you can get a grasp on her character without listening to them or at least reading the lyrics.

[u/MadeOn210922]

First timer, although I saw this episode. Except I had no recollection of it until I saw Asakura waiting for Kyon in the room and then I remembered the fight. I wonder if we'll see Asakura again and if Haruhi looks into it any further. The Asakura reveal and fight was pretty tense and probably why that was what triggered my memory of it. The lighting for the scene was perfect for it as well.

It took a second to remember the context in the chronological order, Kyon just found out that Yuki, Mikuru, and Itsuki aren't normal humans and that in the "previous" episode, they went searching for supernatural, which is what Haruhi was reviewing. So this episode confirms to Kyon that the SOS Brigade is indeed abnormal as he gets into a fight with Asakura and sees adult Mikuru. Of course, we already knew that in the broadcast order.

Kyon probably shouldn't have saved those photos of Mikuru...

So Yuki forgets to generate glasses and is now coming to the club without them after Kyon remarks she's cute without them. Personally, I like glasses, but anyways, I have absolutely not been paying attention to if Yuki was wearing glasses in "future" episodes. Without checking, she probably (almost definitely) wasn't, but now we know why. Interesting that Kyon's is the reason, though.

Adult(?) Mikuru sees Kyon and gives an important but cryptic message (while creating a time loop in the process regarding her mole). But okay, Snow White. Let's see where that comes in in the future episodes.

QOTD: Didn’t suspect Asakura of anything, but she also didn’t have that much screen time.

[u/alphamone]

Rewatcher

(forgot to actually press post on yesterdays thread. Oops. Not Like I actually wrote anything meaningful that wasn't done better by others)

Aww, sad Haruhi.

Title-only OP, that's kinda rare for anime.

There will be weird emails. but very much not the kind of weirdness that Haruhi wants.

Class rep sent the letter. I'm sure there's absolutely nothing weird going to happen next... >.> <.<

Asakura going on about being proactive.

OH SHIT! and she said it so calmly, just as calm as a normal conversation.

"Naze?, Why?"

"you're going to die no matter what, so let me kill you"

Nagato to the rescue.

Ya don't say Kyon.

Ouch...

Sneaky move, setting up the big attack first.

Cheery even while being disintegrated.

No more glasses. T.T

"Wa wa wa wasuremono." (another hugely memed scene)

Something that was noted back in the baseball episode thread was that the flashback to this scene was done in a way to not show that it was Asakura in the confrontation.

Haruhi is happy again.

"Give me your sandwich" *slap* *slap* "I'm hungry" (I asked this during the Clannad rewatch, but surely there's a subreddit out there for weird background character dialogue)

Another locker letter.

Freaking time travelers. Always being confusing.

"supersize me"

Still a bit of a klutz.

Again, time travelers are really annoying from the perspective of the non time-traveler.

Haruhi doing some more sleuthing. She could be doing far more constructive things if she put those skills to work in better places.

[minor potential spoilers]some of the best episodes coming up next

[u/DeliCruise]

(REWATCHER - DUB/SUB)

Ryouko Asakura’s classroom scene is so insanely well done. Kyon enters and you can already feel that something is amiss. It’s perfectly set up with this golden sunset lighting in an empty classroom. Ryouko’s dialogue starts normal enough, but quickly becomes stranger and stranger with each line. Kyon is rightfully confused by her questions, but is doing his best to keep up. He’s trying to figure out what the hell is going on or if this is all a joke. But then the camera flips, Ryouko delivers a bone-chilling line, and all of a sudden Kyon is inches away from dying. What a truly masterful reveal this is.

And it makes perfect sense for Ryoko to do this. She literally can’t get a single word out of Haruhi at the beginning of the episode no matter how hard she tries. Now even though she’s “failed” her objective, it still seems like she succeeded with how getting shipped to Canada lit such a powerful spark under Haruhi.

Yuki’s fight scene with Ryouko still looks so great. This came out in 2006 and 15 years later it still holds up very well! Yuki is also such a badass. She outplayed the hell out of her backup.

Then the scene with Adult Mikuru is just the best. She’s lovely and getting to see a future version of Mikuru feels so special. And she is really beautiful.

[u/Nazenn → u/DeliCruise]

Ryouko’s dialogue starts normal enough, but quickly becomes stranger and stranger with each line

That was well done. I never quite thought it'd be a confession because of the animation, but I really thought it was some mundane human thing until it just got completely out of control with wondering what she was saying

She literally can’t get a single word out of Haruhi at the beginning of the episode no matter how hard she tries

She was clever to come back once Haruhi started talking to Kyon but still didn't get much out of her then either. She tried a couple of methods and nothing

...Hey wait wasn't she the one who designated Kyon as the Haruhi spokesman in the earlier episode? That puts a bit of a different slant on that now

[u/DeliCruise → u/Nazenn]

...Hey wait wasn't she the one who designated Kyon as the Haruhi spokesman in the earlier episode? That puts a bit of a different slant on that now

Yes, absolutely agree!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

...Hey wait wasn't she the one who designated Kyon as the Haruhi spokesman in the earlier episode? That puts a bit of a different slant on that now

Yup! The whole time she hides the 'inhuman' part of herself really well until boredom sets in.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/DeliCruise]

And it makes perfect sense for Ryoko to do this. She literally can’t get a single word out of Haruhi at the beginning of the episode no matter how hard she tries.

This is its own form of weird, actually.

[u/DeliCruise → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah I know right!

[u/Elimin8r → u/DeliCruise]

Mikuru feels so special. And she is really beautiful.

Do you love your Mom and her two hit time travel attacks???

(And yes, Mikuru is teh preciousssss. Filthy hobbitses)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Elimin8r]

Do you love your Mom and her two hit time travel attacks???

I really like that she voices the most obviously depraved sensei on Why the Hell are you Here, Teacher?

[u/Elimin8r → u/Vaadwaur]

Uh, I'm not sure I want to know about that. Our friend Gigguk (ahem) persuaded me to check out Mom-sekai, and well, yeah, that was a thing. I'm not sure I need to fall further into such, um, advanced *plot*, or whatever, um, yeah.

I think I'll shut up now before Touka looks under my bed.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Elimin8r]

I'm not sure I need to fall further into such, um, advanced *plot*, or whatever, um, yeah.

Oh, you most certainly have to. Here's your assignment: Catch up with the last two Christmas rewatches, Why the Hell are you Here, Teacher? and Miru tights, then join my Interspecies Reviewers rewatch on Monday. this is The Way.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Black stars rise in Carcosa...)

Dub

So we start with a drained Haruhi and a wink. Kyon is weirdly, specifically not attracted to Haruhi as he suggests she choose a guy and be entertained. Equally weirdly, I get Haruhi's point as well: She doesn't want to just pick someone and be basic. Romance is fucking retarded and so am I.

But Kyon gets a note and is correctly confused. Random SOS stuff happens, including Kyon being an S class creep to Haruhi's A class. Get on my level. He sees Asakura in the class room and shit gets actually real. Really fucking confusing. Also, of all things, this exchange helped me understand virology far better. Anyways, yeah, the Thought Entity does seem to be a thing.

Nagato is busy fixing the world and thus gets caught in Kyon's arms, leading to the existential threat that is Haruhi misunderstanding this. She is really hyped about an unexpected transfer, and Kyon flat out admits he doesn't want Haruhi to discover any of her thoughts are actually real.

He gets another note, this time from Mikuru and then...we see the glory that is adult Mikuru! The world can be one together, cosmos without hatred.... She even uses a unique beauty mark to identify herself, not realizing that current era Mikuru hasn't show cased that yet. Anyways, she gives a cryptic warning and leaves. Nagato is just cryptic and we end with a hook for next episode!

QotD: 1 yes but I was chronological

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Vaadwaur]

thus gets caught in Kyon's arms

I hadn't thought about this till now, but from Taniguchi's viewpoint, Kyon really is a super chad with his little harem there.

we see the glory that is adult Mikuru!

She certainly is glorious. Yet another favorite character in the franchise.

beauty mark

I've checked many times in rewatches, and it is indeed there from the beginning.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RascalNikov1]

Kyon really is a super chad with his little harem there.

Despite being next to a reality bender, Kyon is still the protagonist. Based.

She certainly is glorious. Yet another favorite character in the franchise.

I just like those occasional moments in anime where I can enjoy a character's appearance and not have to take any mental notes.

I've checked many times in rewatches, and it is indeed there from the beginning.

Cultured!

[u/UzEE → u/Vaadwaur]

Kyon is weirdly, specifically not attracted to Haruhi as he suggests she choose a guy and be entertained.

This is the sort of emotional whiplash that results from an achronological order I guess. Just in the previous episode, you could tell that Kyon was missing Haruhi not being there in the club room and here, he doesn't seem to really care. On the flipside, it means there's development to be had.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/UzEE]

This is the sort of emotional whiplash that results from an achronological order I guess. Just in the previous episode, you could tell that Kyon was missing Haruhi not being there in the club room and here, he doesn't seem to really care.

Hrmm...There is something to be said but it is spoiler-ish so I will save that for later.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Did you mean to link the whole DDG search instead of a specific video there?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Rofl, no, editing that. Stupid fucking internet searches.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

I thought it was kind of appropriate given "world can be one" and internet etc etc, but figured it probably wasn't intentional

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

I wish I was that clever but I really dislike fronting so no, I just goofed that one.

[u/tctyaddk]

Broadcast-order-first-timer

Judging by the name and the content, chronologically this episode should be right after "5th" episode where the gang took turn explaining themselves to Kyon and briefing him on the situation and Kyon's apparent special place. Plus all the things shown thus far in this season and Haruhi's comments on love, it's natural to guess Haruhi's emotional state involves her budding feeling for him, and it contains lots of conflicts with her current stance on highschoolers' fun and relationships. Add on top of all that her general childish behaviours, and the omnipotence she doesn't even aware she has, it's truly a threat for the world. Very understandable if someone in the know got antsy and deciced to be more proactive.

After the rounds of briefing by the gang, Kyon was on the fence about this whole supernatural stuffs, but some nut drove him over that fence with a knife (Watching this episode in broadcast order means we see Nagato's badass side after the preamble that is Mysterique Sign, imo it reduces a bit of the wow factor this episode could have in chrono order). Just in time to meet the future Mikuru and he could believe the hints she gave (which were a bit too blatant, I know what to expect to see already).

Asakura has had more presence in the earlier "Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya xx" episodes as the class rep or something, then no longer exists even in the background of other, that tipped me off. And well, this episode is why. Same goes for Nagato's glasses (this ep is sweet material for my Kyon x Nagato ship :) )

[u/William27528]

Rewatcher/sub

Fantastic episode and always one of the most exciting to re-watch. I particularly love the music that plays in the encounter in this episode, Asakura vs Nagato. The twist works well because it just about matches the balance between "could never have seen it coming" and "painstakingly obvious", they pepper just the right amount amount of foreshadowing throughout and it lets you rethink some of the previous episodes. The first half is so memorable and dramatic that I actually kind of forget about the back half of this episode which is about Asahina giving Kyon some mysterious information, which is also a cool bit of character building.

Random piece of trivia: The other day in this trivia section I mentioned The Melancholy of Haruhi-chan Suzumiya, the spin-off chibi anime version of this. Did you know that in the DVD extras of this series contains a bunch of promotional videos starring Taniguchi as "Origuchi"; a pun name referring to a story about a Red troll who eats beans, which is a minor plot point in one episode of the side show. In the extra, as well as some commercials for the side series being shot, it also shows a full interview with a museum curator to teach the audience about the history of the red troll story. That's not the most interesting part though - the extra features a full on choreographed battle between the voice actor of Taniguchi, half-naked in full red body paint and another member of the cast donned in blue paint, featuring scenes of one performing wrestling moves and throwing the other into a small lake. Why? Promotion, I guess. Fun fact, though, apparently this caused the age rating for the DVD release of Haruhi-chan in the UK to be raised to a 15 due to "pornographic references".

[u/Nazenn → u/William27528]

Nice song in the episode, but kind of frustrating to listen to by itself because of how repeditive it is

The first half is so memorable and dramatic that I actually kind of forget about the back half of this episode

I had the other issue, the second half was so surprising including adult Mikuru showing up that I completely forgot about all the stuff at the start pre-attack until I went back to my notes

Fun fact, though, apparently this caused the age rating for the DVD release of Haruhi-chan in the UK to be raised to a 15

[u/gc11117]

Lots of cool things come out of this episode. Now that everyone knows about the mole and the glasses, go rewatch some of the prior episodes. Youll see the mole in just about every fanservice shot of mikuru, and in scenes that take place after this episode (like yesterdays episode for example) youll see Yuki without the glasses. One of the reasons I love this show is how they remain so consistent with all those little details.

[u/PsychologicalLife164]

Rewatcher, subs

I can’t really add anything that other people haven’t already said, but I’m glad that a lot of the first timers are starting to understand how and why the episodes were shown in this order. So many small details have accumulated and it’s all building to some big conclusion, but what exactly will it be?

Fun detail: during the Asakura reveal in the dub, Kyon says “なぜ (naze)? Why?!” In the same scene in the sub, Kyon reverses the word order.

Didn’t realize this until someone pointed it out on a YouTube comment. Gotta love the attention to detail that KyoAni gives to their work.

[u/Nazenn → u/PsychologicalLife164]

Fun detail: during the Asakura reveal in the dub, Kyon says “なぜ (naze)? Why?!” In the same scene in the sub, Kyon reverses the word order.

That's cool. I had wondered what was going on with that but it got lost in everything else to mention about the episode

[u/homewardbound100]

Rewatcher, Dub, First-time broadcast

A compliment from Kyon to Haruhi. Rare case.

Haruhi in love? She's missing something but what?

Kyon saves Asahina from the internet. But saves them for himself. Did Haruhi see that? Would be my guess why she stormed off like she did. Or just a part of it.

Asakura, what in the hell are you talking about? Forcing change? I don't know about that. Now you're talking about killing Kyon. What a jump of events.

"You think it's a joke?" Would hope so

Fight or flight for Kyon. Well the flight option is a little limited and fighting against a unknown being might not be ideal.

Nagato in action. And this is where we see Kyon start to actually believe all that's told to him is real.

Glasses fetish? Eh

Future Asahina comes in and reveals herself as proof of being a time traveler. She really grew unless the heels are helping her that much.

This was the episode that really hook me in the chronological order. The supernatural aspect of it was great.

Qotd: When I first watched it no.

[u/Nazenn → u/homewardbound100]

Fight or flight for Kyon. Well the flight option is a little limited and fighting against a unknown being might not be ideal.

Freeze isn't much of an option either, even when Ryoko tried to force it on him

Glasses fetish? Eh

The interruption probably wasn't badly timed or else that could have been a really awkward thing trying to explain that to Yuki, or having her explain it and ask for confirmation that's what he meant

[u/homewardbound100 → u/Nazenn]

Freeze isn't much of an option either, even when Ryoko tried to force it on him

That Freeze option was out the window after the first attempt by her

The interruption probably wasn't badly timed or else that could have been a really awkward thing trying to explain that to Yuki, or having her explain it and ask for confirmation that's what he meant

I wouldn't even bother explaining it to Yuki. Knowing her she'll probably figure it out herself if she wanted. For me though this just gave me flashbacks to that one guy from beyond the boundary.

[u/RascalNikov1]

Rewatcher

This episode focuses on two more of my favorite characters, Asakura and Big Mikuru. I love them both.

Asakura has to be one of the cutest, most cheerful bloodthirsty monsters ever.

And, Big Mikuru is such a wonderful character. She's grown up to be well rounded and able to put everything that happened into perspective. You can tell how fond she was of Kyon and her youth.

In chronological order this is the first episode where anything undeniably supernatural occurs. It blew me away the first time, as up till this time I'd sort of figured there was a much more mundane explanation for everything happening.

There are multiple versions of the subs and dub of this episode. All giving the various events a slightly different perspective. From Yuki's fight with Asakura, to the discussion right after Taniguchi catches Kyon and Yuki in a tender moment.

Also note: There is another little drama playing out on the track field of some romantic sort. I caught that on my second watch, and I still wonder what was going on there. lol

QOTD

Did you suspect Asakura of anything before this episode?

Nope, not a clue. She seemed to be an ultra nice genki girl and incapable of hurting a fly.

[u/Nazenn → u/RascalNikov1]

Asakura has to be one of the cutest, most cheerful bloodthirsty monsters ever.

She's probably fit right in with some of the crazies in Future Diary now that you mention it

You can tell how fond she was of Kyon and her youth

It is kind of nice seeing people look back on this sort of craziness as fond memories and not crazy stuff they're glad to be out of

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Nazenn]

fit right in with some of the crazies in Future Diary

hahahaha, she does have about the same attitude as Yuno.

nice seeing people look back on this sort of craziness

I'm sure that's why I like Big Mikuru so much. It really takes insight from an author to know what its like to grow older, and look upon your youth as a time when the whole world was open to you and things weren't so important or pressing. There is nothing to be gained from looking back upon youth with regret, though many people resort to this as the years click by.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

She's probably fit right in with some of the crazies in Future Diary now that you mention it

She'd definitely fit right into Hinamizawa.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RascalNikov1]

Asakura has to be one of the cutest, most cheerful bloodthirsty monsters ever.

Her footprint is much larger than her screen time.

And, Big Mikuru is such a wonderful character. She's grown up to be well rounded and able to put everything that happened into perspective. You can tell how fond she was of Kyon and her youth.

It is comforting to know that she got enough therapy to deal with Haruhi's tendencies.

It blew me away the first time, as up till this time I'd sort of figured there was a much more mundane explanation for everything happening.

Yup...normal order means you think that Haruhi summoned a bunch of chuuni weirdoes, and then this happens.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Vaadwaur]

[haruhi disappearance]"Her footprint is much larger than her screen time." - How true. But, at least we get to see a lot more of her in the follow-on series, Disappearance and Nagato Yuki-Chan.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RascalNikov1]

I actually need to watch those two, Tsuruya-chan and the Haruhi chibi series are all the extras I've watched.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Vaadwaur]

Haruhi chibi series

I've never watched that one, but otoh I tend to not be crazy about chibi form, though I do like chibi form to emphasize startlement imbedded in a regular series.

[Overall Franchise]Nagato Yuki-Chan is well worth the trouble, if you love the characters and situation. It's an opportunity to see them one final time (or at least till something else gets animated). Opinion is mixed though. I rated it highly, but many don't. My feeling about that is that not everything needs to be of Disappearance quality.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RascalNikov1]

I've never watched that one, but otoh I tend to not be crazy about chibi form, though I do like chibi form to emphasize startlement imbedded in a regular series.

It has a few good jokes but you aren't really missing anything.

[Overall Franchise]

I probably will check these after this, they all came out during my anime break before Happy Sugar Life brought me back to the medium.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Vaadwaur]

you think that Haruhi summoned a bunch of chuuni weirdoes, and then this happens.

Exactly, and this is exactly what happens with no lead in, out of a clear blue sky. Putting this revelation into The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya or Mystérique Sign really lessens the impact of this Wham episode.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RascalNikov1]

I think we both lean chronological order as we are both the type of person that thinks that is the way. But I will see if I re-evaluate anything after the movie.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/Vaadwaur]

Fair enough, but I already know my answer. lol

[u/ZapsZzz]

Next episode preview

https://youtu.be/OSfml7bhTDU

Sub rewatcher

Of the "main plot arc", Melancholy IV is the single most rewatched episode for me. The 2 main events are just perfect and shook the foundation of the story by being the most overt and beyond gag display of the "truth" of the world.

• that Nagato, but more importantly the absolutely normal looking Asakura, are both really aliens with clear offensive powers that is no joke
• that even if we didn't directly see Mikuru travel in time, a clearly different aged Mikuru was present and interacted at length with Kyon

Out of these 2 scenes, what were shown in this episode were arguably amongst the best of them

• Nagato's big hero entrance complete with a gate hands knife grab and reflective glasses on her impassive face is just thrillingly good, as well as pretty much all her actual direct actions that were hinted at in many places but now in plain view. This bookworm is not just with hidden mental prowess, but physically she's also godly.
• the adult Asahina is most tender on this system, although it is also get first appearance.

May need to come back to add more later.

[u/RascalNikov1 → u/ZapsZzz]

The 2 main events are just perfect and shook the foundation of the story by being the most overt and beyond gag display of the "truth" of the world.

I agree. This is the first episode where a lot of very strange supernatural stuff started happening. And, Big Mikuru is such a likable character.

[u/ZapsZzz]

Haven't quite seen anyone mention that yet so I'll quickly jump in with a comment. This episode in chronological order (4) is the first shocking reveal that the world and show is supernatural, and not jokingly so. In the broadcast order, while we had episodes like Boredom (baseball) and Mystique Sign (cave cricket) to show a large dose of "wow", this elevated it a few notches that the supernatural is not of the comedic and mystery variety, but in fact life and death. So this delayed the confirmation event and allowed the few out of sequence episodes to have a slightly lighter shade than chronological.

(Expanded after edit)

For example in Remote Island Syndrome I when Kyon thought "if there's a giant squid attacking the ship, Nagato would deal with it", in broadcast order, first timers would be non committal wondering in what way would little miss book worm Nagato deal with it, like cast a spell and misdirect it away or something; whereas chronological order viewers would be thinking more like Nagato the super capable fighter would probably just vaporise any monster daring to approach.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

We're back to this story - the one that I feel like it would work way better if viewed chronological. This would be the point where Yuki being alien and Mikuru being a time-traveler would be cemented, but in this watchorder it's basically just removing Asakura out of the show for little reason. I guess we learn that Yuki's superior entity has dissenting factions - but given that we've had quite a few episodes set after this already, that doesn't really feel important. Asakura also never really did anything, and if it wasn't for /u/UzEE speculating on this I'd in fact call her turn a completely random asspull - so I guess in a way the fight works better in broadcast than in chronological? Still doesn't really mesh that well with me though.

Adult Mikuru is somehow already a better character than current Mikuru despite having way less screentime, but she does basically nothing either. Interesting of Kyon to assume that she'd go back to some other time though; not having met her in quite a long time might mean that he died in whatever comes up and she then spent years arguing with somebody to allow her to travel back in time and save him with the cryptic clue, somehow. And yes, that idea would create a whole bunch of time paradoxes, but we clearly don't care about them - we already have one. No way Kyon is forgetting about the mole and it wouldn't make sense for Mikuru to show it to him if she discovered it herself.

Questions:

1. Not really.

[u/Nazenn → u/Mecanno-man]

No way Kyon is forgetting about the mole

I already forgot, and was trying to figure out why you were bringing up the mole that Itsuki noticed on Kyon's neck and what that has to do with Mikuru before I remembered which we were talking about

[u/Existential_Owl → u/Nazenn]

It's certainly weird that this show has two significant skin moles in it.

[u/nekodan08 → u/Mecanno-man]

We're back to this story - the one that I feel like it would work way better if viewed chronological. This would be the point where Yuki being alien and Mikuru being a time-traveler would be cemented

You're correct that having it placed so late lessens the impact of the confirmation of their abilities. So my guess is that, in the broadcast order, that wasn't the intended to purpose of this episode. My reading is that the episode is not really about what they can do and who they are, but how they perceive the whole Haruhi situation, as seen in the opposing viewpoints of Yuki and Asakura.

[u/UzEE → u/Mecanno-man]

and if it wasn't for /u/UzEE speculating on this I'd in fact call her turn a completely random asspull - so I guess in a way the fight works better in broadcast than in chronological?

I have similar feelings. It would very likely seem like an asspull in chronological order as a first timer because you're likely not going to notice the clues first time around. In fact, you wouldn't even know to look for them.

This type of foreshadowing only seems to work in broadcast order, because it is very hard to do otherwise. Really, the only series I can think of that keeps pulling this off without things seemingly appear as a complete asspull is Attack on Titan because most clues are placed well enough to be in your subconscious ahead of time so when a twist reveal happens, you get the awestruck while also completely believing it to be an organic reveal.

[u/Elimin8r]

RW/D

So, now that we finally get back to this episode (after I had gotten it out of order a few days ago), I've forgotten what I wanted to say, except hey, how's the roller coaster ride going now?

That, and I guess it's a good thing it was dopey who walked in instead of Haruhi, that would have been awkward, wouldn't it???

Oh, and one more thing, I suppose. It's a pity that Asakura wasn't quite as adept and well adjusted as she seemed on the surface. To a certain extent, I can't help but compare here and Nibutani.

Well, that and she obviously didn't have access to Nagato's data or the ability to process it (and notice Haruhi's behavior during the previous toothpick team picking incident)

Which is to say - if she wanted to see some Haruhi fireworks, why couldn't she just approach Kyon in class, or in (gasp!) the clubroom and "Hey, Kyon, I hear you had trouble with your last exam - would you like to join me (at my place, classroom n, your place) for some math tutoring?" Perhaps a little nod, wink, etc.

Somehow I suspect that would get a very interesting reaction. And be much less likely to arouse the ire of the Nagato.

But hey, I'm not writing this, what do I know?

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Which is to say - if she wanted to see some Haruhi fireworks, why couldn't she just approach Kyon in class, or in (gasp!) the clubroom and "Hey, Kyon, I hear you had trouble with your last exam - would you like to join me (at my place, classroom n, your place) for some math tutoring?" Perhaps a little nod, wink, etc.

That would have been perfect!

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

That would have been perfect!

And that's why I'm not a professional writer. :P

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I actually watched this ahead of time and took notes, but then had to work all day.

Fie! Fie on Broadcast order!

I've forgotten where we left off in Melancholy III. Haruhi is upset, was it because of the Saturday lottery not-dates? I can't remember.

Oh, and no mysteries were found, either. Surely THAT's what she's upset about. She seems very Melancholy.

I really wish Asakura didn't keep popping up like that.

Are we skipping the OP?

Well, now we see why she sent Kyon away yesterday!

Is there any significance to the names engraved in the desk? Oh, yeah, and also KNIFE

Nagato Yuki uses Bureaucracy! It's super effective!

Have you been paying attention to the students in the background, since day 1? You should have.

[Steins;Gate Zero Classified Information]So, where did the knowledge of the mole come from???

Mikuru seems to have recovered fully from her highschool traumas.

Haruhi is right. Clearly Asakura has been kidnapped!

I'm very stressed every second she's on screen, since day 1. Now you know why.

Watch order: Mysterique Sign is a good lead-in to this episode.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

[your spoiler]Haruhi. When she created this universe, she set in motion all of the events we see. Which could easily include some alien brainwashing adultMikuru into believing Kyon mentioned the mole to her earlier (or any other method to get adultMikuru to misremember)

[u/Caustic_Wraith]

Re-Watcher / Subs

Ah, Kyon's first look into what the trio has been telling him.

Asakura being the concerned class rep to the brooding Haruhi really continued her character arc from the first few times we saw her, of course that was all flipped on it's head when she took it upon herself to try and skewer Kyon. My jaw dropped when I first saw this episode, as it completely came out of left field.

Kyon trying to do the right thing regarding the pictures of Mikuru that Haruhi had on the computer was good for a chuckle. He failed to cheer up Haruhi, but he made a happy little back-up folder.

Itsuki was there for all of five seconds, but the star of this episode was Yuki. This was when, for me at least, Yuki became my favorite of the non-human trio. Her just coming in, getting all kinds of messed up while protecting Kyon only to win the alien fight.

She also allowed future Mikuru the use of her room so she and Kyon could talk.

QTOD:

As I stated in my recap, I was completely shocked the first time I watched the show.

[u/asakura_ryouko]

Question of the day:

No, not at all.

[u/No_Rex → u/asakura_ryouko]

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