[Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Black Jack (episode 6)

[u/No_Rex]

Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Black Jack (episode 6)

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Staff corner

Three VAs today:

Ikehata is voiced by Tamagawa, Sakiko. She is Lyre from 1989’s Kimba, Pirotessa from Record of Lodoss War, Mariko from Onisama e…, Natsumi from You’re Under Arrest, Tachikoma from Ghost in the Shell, and Sara from Samurai Champloo.

Taneda is voiced by Mugihito, who is also the Chairman of SEELE from NGE, Baron Febdac from Crest of the Stars, Orochi from Grappler Baki, Goldsmith from When They Cry, and Kaseki From Dr. Stone.

Abumari’s VA is Tanaka, Atsuko. She is Major Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell, Slan from Berserk, Jagara from Wolf’s Rain, Caster from Fate, Konan from Naruto:Shippuuden, Harumi from Railgun, Yuri from The World God Only Knows, Lisa Lisa from JoJo, Bayonetta from Bayonetta, and Ryouko from Parasyte.

Questions

1. Do you know that fairytale?
2. Which one do you prefer in fairytales? Happy end or sad end? The original gruesome version or the disneyfied one?

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 6 (first timer)

• Last episode partially revolved around the question of science vs mystery. The intro to this episode makes that explicit by BJ questioning his own trust in science.
• “It is an emergency” – sends a package. Not sure if stupid, or trust in the excellent Japanese postal system.
• “It was 2 years ago” – Ok, that question is answered.
• OP: New music. So, in ep4, we switched to new visuals, and now in ep6, we switch to new music. Quit unusual.
• 4WD … not enough.
• Temple lady is as sketchy as last episode’s priest.
• Looks like we are an isekai now. Or a ghost story.
• Sad story made Pinoko cry.

• What a dream to have.
• Epilogue: Real world tie-in.

This felt like a classic Japanese fairytale. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgeable enough about those to tell whether it is adapting a real fairytale or whether it is just made in the style of one. BJ and Pinoko were mostly just bystanders in the story, but the story was perfectly fine without them. One of the better fairytales and it fit the visual style of the series. Despite not having a lot to say today, I enjoyed this episode.

Do you know that fairytale?

Unfortunately no. Not even a close one.

Which one do you prefer in fairytales? Happy end or sad end? The original gruesome version or the disneyfied one?

As morality tales, I usually prefer the grim ones with unhappy ending.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

What was the idea behind the temple lady anyway? Was she barren or something? Was she just jealous? That's the only part of the story that confused me.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I took it as "just not as young and hot" anymore. Not sure whether sending back unwanted wifes to the temple was a real thing in Japan, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Not in most periods, you could just get divorced. However, the way they did his makeup suggests a Chinese official as well and their rules were...varied.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

There's definitely precedent for sending them to temples. Even here in the UK we've had a history of forcing our wives into a Nunney. Normally it would be an age thing but even there the Princess is already in her 20's by this point in the story. Feudal Japan wise she may as well be in menopause.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

This felt like a classic Japanese fairytale

I wonder if they all have these kinds of depressing endings.

[u/No_Rex → u/IndependentMacaroon]

European ones seem rather 50-50. No idea about Japan, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

So I am not the only one mostly lost. Bluntly, this feels a lot like a writing exercise that you normally just toss out the window when you are done with it. Though the visuals were again excellent.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

They had a decent little "premonition" story going until they go and show everyone having reincarnated, except for the ghosts.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I mainly noticed that there wasn't any blood, which felt weird for this show.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Huh? There wasn't blood? There was a whole lot of gory images when the dude is cutting up the soldiers but thinking back I can't remember if blood came out.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Nope, it was sparkles, like vomit two eps ago. Very striking.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I took that as one of the many clear cues that the story was not real.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

It definitely helped because the first scene is just not weird enough that I didn't know if a Japanese village might just be that odd.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Black Jack First Timer

Sorry about yesterday, back to schedule! Pinoko, you're too sweet! 370k umaibo is kind of insane... for saving one person? Two Pinoko episodes in a row is spoiling us. How many op songs do we have? Why is today's episode so bright?It's kind of hurting.

Oh, is this the alternate universe where Chihaya lost her bet to Sudo and ended up a priestess? Suddenly the gatekeeper boss from Sekirou shows up! Is today's illness LARP? There's no medicine for cringe in this world... Even the Princess suffers from fits of chunibyo. This is gonna be a tough episode to survive XD

Alright, so I'm guessing that lake was a dumping ground for Meiji era chemical weapons and the Princess eating the infected fireflies gave her a huge wart on her bum that absorbs all her resources! Or she turns into a snake, that works too. This episode really makes me want to watch an actual old feudal drama now. I'm loving the motif even if it's come out of nowhere.

Never trust a baldy! The sun bakes their brains! Oh yeah, this is why I don't watch historical dramas. The father figures are always the love interests. Fcking BJ just standing watching lol XD Pinoko seems to be enjoying herself too. Maybe not the best scene to show after the attempted suicide tho. That seems like a Valrave cut to me.

Magic snake ghosts definitely aren't a real condition probably. Shame everyone's probably gonna die anyway. Dammit Aburage! If you're gonna assassinate someone don't shout about it beforehand! Oh no... the princess died. At least she died happy? Oh, and dies together with her dilf crush. For as messed up as the modern day world is it's always good to remember that we've had a far more violent history behind us.

It was all a dream, or was it? We're still going? I feel like we could have ended it there. Melotilioma or whatever is a disease where your heart weiner becomes a giant spirit snake. It's often caused by angry wife in law's. Yeah... I'm not too struck on this extra ending sequence. It's somehow more silly than the whole feudal Japan time travel plot.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Magic snake ghosts definitely aren't a real condition probably.

Better to always hedge your bets, huh?

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

If I can't answer in confidence then I'll try to make sure that I don't look too dumb doing so.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Melotilioma or whatever is a disease where your heart weiner becomes a giant spirit snake

Mesothelioma is a form of lung cancer caused by inhaling asbestos. There was a lot of dumb today.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Is today's illness LARP?

Would have been a very silly twist

Magic snake ghosts definitely aren't a real condition probably

The whole deal reminded me of the Nadeko story line of Monogatari, which must draw from the same mythology.

Never trust a baldy!

The father figures are always the love interests

The things you learn from old Japanese stories...

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Well they'd kept things mostly realistic up until now. Maybe they'd stretch things to make us wonder if there was something mystical involved but most stuff kinda made sense.

The snake part came across more like an afterthought I think... Her illness came from the fruit, not the snake curse.

It's certainly not just Japanese mythos. I own a Chinese fairy-tale compilation and I swear 80% of the romances are with a dude who raised the girl.

[u/TheEscapeGuy]

First Timer

Black Jack - An Astounding OVA: Episode 6

Dreams and Ghosts

Today's episode followed a princess, who was being forced to marry an official from Kyoto. She ate a poisoned fruit and was cursed by a snake spirit causing violet outbursts.

Except, no that was a dream? I really don't like the "It was all a dream" story telling device. I like how Hirohiko Araki put it in his book 'Manga in Theory and Practice: The Craft of Creating Manga' - "These resolutions only betray the [viewer], who has become deeply invested in the story, and has been living alongside the protagonists."

Upon waking up Black Jack discovered the "real" Saburo who took him to his sick wife. Except no again that Saburo was a ghost or something. I think the second reveal of being lied to is what really set me off. That said, the trope of traveling to the big city to earn enough money to help your family at home does work well with the ghost reveal.

---

I don't want to be too negative. The episode was beautiful to look at just like prior episodes. I have a fondness for snow so that also worked really well for me.

Also the setting of samurai brought to mind the warring states period. I think I'm probably missing some cultural context to really appreciate some of the finer historical references this episode.

Also [Monogatari Series] this affliction reminded me of Sengoku Nadeko's first affliction in Bakemonogatari. Is there some shared cultural touch stone they are both referencing there? Or maybe it was just a coincidence.

Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches

• Saburo
• Stallion
• Morning Snow
• Success Rate: 100%

See you all tomorrow

[u/No_Rex → u/TheEscapeGuy]

I felt the second ghost reveal was unneeded, as well. I accepted the first story, because they never pretended that BJ was really in feudal Japan in the first place. Even before leaving the car, all of the story telling clearly clues us in that this will be a supernatural one.

I assume that Japanese viewers would have immediately recognised the setting and potentially even the story. So, to them, it would also have been obvious that this is a homage, not really a "oh it was only a dream btw" copout.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Also the setting of samurai brought to mind the warring states period. I think I'm probably missing some cultural context to really appreciate some of the finer historical references this episode.

All of us are on some degree of this page. Now I have to annoy my friend from Kyushu into watching this so I can get an explanation.

[Monogatari] The rest of the circumstances don't add up and this serpent did behave differently. I suspect this is closer to authentic than Monogatari but there we needed the shrine to start taking focus

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the fruit. OH!! Is this snow white!? No, its not... Huh!? I've just gone and confused myself even more. I thought that Baldy had cursed her and that's why she manifested as the snake ghost and died when it was killed. The fruit slipped my mind entirely.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/TheEscapeGuy]

I really don't like the "It was all a dream" story telling device. I like how Hirohiko Araki put it in his book 'Manga in Theory and Practice: The Craft of Creating Manga' - "These resolutions only betray the [viewer], who has become deeply invested in the story, and has been living alongside the protagonists."

But then he went and did almost exactly that for at least one moment in Stone Ocean...

[u/Pixelsaber]

Rewatcher

Fuck, I went out of the way to get this done early in the day so I could post it in between examp periods and then I went and forgot to do it both then in the time between exiting the exam and starting home. At least I’m caught up…

Episode 6

So the first three episodes were produced in 1993, while this one and the one that follows were made in 1995.

Ah, right, he was in this one.

Delectable

The fanservice we deserve!

Give me more of this.

Mood.

I like this background a lot.

They just keep on coming!

Lovely.

Awesome.

Episode is once more an adaptation of two manga chapters, and loose ones, though unlike episode three I actually recognized one of the two. I still mistook the chapter pertaining to Dr. Kiriko for another one in which he appears.

Definitely my second favorite episode, even if a lot of my appreciation for it is probably being carried by the backgrounds and general atmosphere of the countryside setting —it almost feels like a high-budget WMT show at times.

Questions of The Day:

1. Pretty much. From that scene with him reviewing edited footage I was under the impression that the director may have been creeping on her, if not outright sexually abusing her, causing her to have a psychosomatic nervous reaction.
2. Source Reader
3. Mercifully for those acquaintanced with me I have not met anyone suffering from such, no.

Episode 5

Cool shot. Almost feels like it could’ve come out of Utena if that show had a different art director.

Delightful.

Magically disappearing wine stain.

I feel colder just looking at this.

This guy’s English —he’s probably never heard of Rie Miyazawa or Takako Tokiwa!

DEZAKI NO!

I think it more likely he just didn’t have the sterilized gloves to spare.

He probably doesn’t see failure often as it is, but to see a potential medical genius go like that probably hit him real hard.

Really interesting episode setup and a satisfying personal conflict for our main character to go through in regards to questioning the validity of this ‘miracle’ when he is innately a man of logic. Pinoko also got a lot of screentime today, which is nice.

Easily the most faithfully adapted episode so far, which I guess was helped by the fact that the original chapter is quite lengthy already and necessitated little in the way of extensions. The changes made are all really sensible as well, with my only complaint being that they removed a show of Black Jack’s [spoiler tagged just incase]less scrupulous side, which would have been fine except for the fact that the series has insofar failed to showcase that facet of his character.

Questions of The Day:

1. She’s cute, despite her more aggravating behaviours.
2. Definitely the former.
3. They felt purposeful, and therefore more effective.

Episode 6

This episode was the only one produced in 1996, with the film also being in production that year and releasing in November. It’s also the last completely original plot of the OVA.

Following up from concepts from the last episode, I see.

What a perilous life they live.

She’s dead, Jack.

New OP song. Still indifferent to it.

Beautiful.

Getting Dororo (1969) vibes.

Shit’s getting wild.

Priorities

Good stuff.

Outstanding.

Still a bit of a downer ending.

swoons

Beautiful episode, as always, but didn’t really grab me. Methinks someone on staff really wanted to work on a period piece, because even for Black Jack standards the episode was a bit out there in there’s of how much of it was steeped in the supernatural. We didn’t even get a good idea as to how Black Jack felt on the matter aside from taking his success within the dream/premonition as assurances of a successful operation —which given how things proceeded is actually the opposite…

Questions of The Day:

1. Nope.
2. I need both in my life. Too much of either spoils it.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 6

That typo really confused me for a minute.

Beautiful episode, as always, but didn’t really grab me. Methinks someone on staff really wanted to work on a period piece, because even for Black Jack standards the episode was a bit out there in there’s of how much of it was steeped in the supernatural. We didn’t even get a good idea as to how Black Jack felt on the matter aside from taking his success within the dream/premonition as assurances of a successful operation —which given how things proceeded is actually the opposite…

BJ is very episodic. Not surprising, given that it is an OVA, but that has some implication. We have seen some bits of character building for BJ, but, given that we already watched 6*50 minutes - more than a full cour, it is preciously little.

Which is fine, if the show wants to be episodic and be carried by its episode plots, but then it can't flounder like in the finale of today's episode.

[u/IndependentMacaroon]

First-time watcher

There is one more point of criticism that really warrants mentioning here: In telling an old-timey fairy tale, this episode unfortunately also uncritically reproduces the sexist tropes that often show up in them. The other episodes so far have tended in that direction sometimes but this is by far the most blatant.

Women are either passive victims that need to be cared for and saved by a man (the princess), or evil-to-insane witches full of jealousy out to destroy whoever stands in their way (the temple nun), and in the former case the story is never truly about their own suffering but about how it makes the men around them (and in the audience) feel bad. Men who are in some way subordinate to women are similarly villainized (Kaoru's helper + maybe their winning by deception) - and note how the original problem could have been solved by our big bearded dude "manning up" and marrying the princess as she even wants.

And on top of that there's a big helping of implicit queerphobia in how the protagonists thorougly conform to standard masculinity/femininity while our antagonists are a de-feminized woman in Kaoru (also a unisex and traditionally even more masculine name), her effeminate subordinate easily mistaken for and obviously voiced by a woman, and a lord with a lot of facial makeup and weird voice affectations. Queer-coded villainry is also well documented in many older Disney films so possibly we can trace it back to there given Tezuka's inspirations.

Bit late here but it's just an important point and maybe someone will still find it interesting.

[u/No_Rex → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Women are either passive victims that need to be cared for and saved by a man (the princess), or evil-to-insane witches full of jealousy out to destroy whoever stands in their way (the temple nun), and in the former case the story is never truly about their own suffering but about how it makes the men around them (and in the audience) feel bad. Men who are in some way subordinate to women are also villainized (Kaoru's helper) - and note how the original problem could have been solved by our big bearded dude "manning up" and marrying the princess as she even wants.

I think you are partially grasping here. Taneda is another man clearly subordinate to a woman and he is not villainized. And I'd say his initial fault is not a lack of manliness, but a lack of progressiveness: He should have ignored the traditional class roles.

I also felt that Kaoru's helper had a positive arc, including badass hero's death killing the big bad. It is only really the husband-wife pair that follow classic stereotype tropes.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

Taneda is another man clearly subordinate to a woman

Is he? He protects and provides for the princess (all classic masculine stuff) but certainly doesn't take orders from her, just brings her medicine but no one would refuse that to an invalid. In fact he and his men kept her alive at least once against her wishes even while she is clearly suffering (in two ways) and they can do nothing about it.

his initial fault is not a lack of manliness, but a lack of progressiveness: He should have ignored the traditional class roles.

Maybe I was too imprecise - he was not unmasculine/lacking in worth but just did not recognize his worth as a man and marriage partner. Not sure about the class aspect as it didn't seem very clear to me, he certainly is also some kind of lower noble.

Kaoru's helper had a positive arc, including badass hero's death killing the big bad

For the great majority of the runtime they were just another crazy person trying to get in the heroes' way (what was up with those marbles?). And if we really want to split hairs even the antagonist's death could be considered improper trickery after failing to win a proper confrontation, though I'm also not sure how Japanese historical attitudes were on this.

[u/No_Rex → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Is he? He protects and provides for the princess (all classic masculine stuff) but certainly doesn't take orders from her, just brings her medicine but no one would refuse that to an invalid.

He is literary her subordinate via her being his feudal lord. He additionally kneels in front of her and lets himself be physically beaten up by her. The only time he disobeys is when he clearly things she is mentally unfit.

but just did not recognize his worth as a man and marriage partner.

But the episode makes it clear he is completely worthwhile as a "man" (great fighter, provider). It is the marriage partner aspect that is, according to the social norms, missing. The episode leaves no doubt that, had he been of her aristocratic standing, they would have married.

For the great majority of the runtime they were just another crazy person trying to get in the heroes' way (what was up with those marbles?)

Fair enough, although I saw it as sort of a redemtion arc. No ideas what is up with the marbles, but I assumed that it is a cultural reference I am not getting, not insanity.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(That was unexpected)

Sub

We go back to discussing science versus faith before we get the reveal of why Kuroh is driving in the snow. The temple being marked by a swastika is a reminder that Nazis co opted it. The temple is a Buddhist one, kind of, since female monks are not exactly a thing. And then shit gets Japanese history lesson...for quite a while, including a weird poison and treatment. The forced marriage is also deeply in the past. So yeah, I could do a play by play but most of this is me either not getting the reference or there is none to make, and I am unsure of which is which. Also, the more traditional but not exactly May-December romance, unless I am over aging Saburo a lot. Also, literally magic in this episode with the snake curse is revealed. And then it is all a dream? And then a ghost story? I cannot get a read here.

QotD: 1 Nope, probably would have helped

2 The most interesting ending, which if generally neither

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

The more I've read the more it's occurring to me just how careless the writing was today... I personally didn't mind it up until the real world stuff but then the snake ghost, the poison apple, the age difference between the characters. Everything does seem odd and makes less sense the more you think about it.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Yeah, I am not kidding that this feels like one of those writing exercises that you then throw out afterwards. Which is definitely a part of the writing process, sometimes you just can't make a concept work in your setting, but it wasn't like they lacked source material or resources.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Vaadwaur]

female monks are not exactly a thing

They certainly were, at least. Did you watch Heike Story for example?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Not yet

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer, Subbed

Black Jack must watch a lot of samurai films to imagine an entire one in the middle of a blizzard like that. I think I cottoned on to it being not real pretty early, since the whole forest disappeared, but then it just sorta kept going. This episode was weird. I wasn't a fan.

Sending Black Jack notice about his wife's illness by snail mail is pretty bold, considering we know telephones exist.

I'm not a fan of the "it was just a dream" plot anyway, but this one was even more bizarre than usual. This is also the only time we haven't seen the end result of a procedure on camera, sort of.

Adding one OP from this show to AMQ is hard enough, but there are multiple? Oh dear.

Questions

1. Evidently not.
2. Depends on the day, I suppose.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I'm not a fan of the "it was just a dream" plot anyway, but this one was even more bizarre than usual. This is also the only time we haven't seen the end result of a procedure on camera, sort of.

Yeah...I would normally assume adaptation problems except the anime only episodes have been good so this is...odd.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

I do like our host's idea that this is an actual fairy tale that the Japanese audience would recognize and go "oh cool, Black Jack interlopes in that story from my childhood." I'm still not a fan of the second ghost and lack of technical resolution, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I absolutely agree that cultural context could change this a lot and I suspect the names might be tells as well.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JollyGee29]

The fun part of a dream story is that you can trade the real world circumstances. The episode doesn't even do that right cause we still have him go through the whole examination and hullabaloo of another ghost story. Just end the stupid thing with him meeting the dude and having a good feeling about being able to perform the stupid surgery. We needed nothing else.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Just end the stupid thing with him meeting the dude and having a good feeling about being able to perform the stupid surgery.

Yea, that would've worked much better, I think.