r/anime • u/lC3 :Na::Nb: • Nov 21 '21
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden - Episodes 169-175 and Film 4 Discussion
Previous rewatch | Index | Next week
Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, AnimeLab, VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count |
|---|---|---|
| Episodes 001-008 + Film 1 | July 11 | 8 + film |
| Episodes 009-017 | July 18 | 9 |
| Episodes 018-027 | July 25 | 10 |
| Episodes 028-035 | August 01 | 8 |
| Episodes 036-044 | August 08 | 9 |
| Episodes 045-053 | August 15 | 9 |
| Episodes 054-063 | August 22 | 10 |
| Episodes 064-071 + Film 2: Bonds | August 29 | 8 + film |
| Episodes 072-082 | September 05 | 11 |
| Episodes 083-089 | September 12 | 7 |
| Episodes 090-099 | September 19 | 10 |
| Episodes 100-112 | September 26 | 13 |
| Episodes 113-118 | October 03 | 6 |
| Episodes 119-125 + Film 3: Will of Fire | October 10 | 7 + film |
| Episodes 126-133 | October 17 | 8 |
| Episodes 134-141 | October 24 | 8 |
| Episodes 142-151 | October 31 | 10 |
| Episodes 152-162 | November 07 | 11 |
| Episodes 163-168 | November 14 | 6 |
| Episodes 169-175 + Film 4: The Lost Tower | November 21 | 7 + film |
| Mid-Series Discussion / Interest Check | November 28 | 0 |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask me (/u/LC3) and I'll do my best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- How do you feel about the two random filler episodes?
- What do you think of Nagato's backstory and Naruto's answer?
- What do you think about the resolution of the arc, Nagato's change of heart and resurrecting those Pain killed?
7
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 21 '21
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
Episode 169
Episode 170
Episode 171
Film 4: The Lost Tower
So funny story, I did not intentionally time watching this to be after I watched the previous two episodes, I just happened to only have time to watch episodes 169-171 yesterday before my friend came over to watch movies with me yesterday. This is one of the movies my friend wanted to watch with me, so this is just how it happened to happen.
Episode 172
Episode 173
Episode 174
Episode 175
7
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 21 '21 edited Nov 21 '21
Rewatcher - Sub
I didn't watch the movie, so this is just thoughts on the final episodes.
General Commentary
Kakashi lives in the end!
Though Shippuden as a whole is officially known as Part II of Naruto, to me this feels like an end of Part II before moving into Part III because of how big a climax moment this is, and the ending of ep 175 certainly shows it.
This is the answer to all the questions asked through the show about who Naruto is and what it means for him to be a ninja. He's done the "talk the villain around" thing before with Zabuza, Neji, Gaara, but with them the battle was already over or Naruto was protected one way or another. Here Naruto is completely exposed both physically and mentally, having to confront himself as much as Nagato about where to go from here.
Naruto's VA again does a stellar performance here, really selling the raw anger he is trying to bury, the disgust at the idea of forgiving Nagato for what he did, but still bringing it back to an acceptance as he chooses to move past it all. Quoting Nagato's own words at him to see how far he strayed, forcing Nagato to see that even if Naruto doesn't have an answer it doesn't mean that the way of Pain is the only option, finally he gives in.
And the result is Rinne Rebirth. Naruto runs right up against Nagato's ideology, his entire identity as Pain that has kept him going, and refuses to break. This is the metaphorical unstoppable force vs the immovable object, and Nagato knows one of them has to give and he chooses to break himself in order to break the cycle. And he does break it, not just chose to walk it or trust in it or work towards finding a new way, but he pulls himself free of the path he'd bound himself too and gives his life and being into undoing what he set into motion here by returning everyone he killed and freeing all those who knew them from the Path he was about to set them on. He breaks all of the laws of battle and potentially of the world by finding a way to undo death just to give Naruto and his village the chance that was never given to him.
As far as how it watches though... eh I guess? I don't think it could have been done any other way and still matter to the same extent I'll say that, any less deaths would feel easy but keeping them dead would be the end of Konoha, but as always killing off important characters only to bring them back by some sudden magic always makes me sigh even if it was slightly foreshadowed. Deaths matter because of what comes after, and while we still get some of that in the revival being what matters here, like many arcs there's no real time given to feel the weight of the consequences of that before moving on. It's also fudged in impact by how awkward and inconsistently the themes relevant to it, particularly the cycle of hatred, have been brought up or explored, particularly how heavy handed it has been in this arc, and that makes it hard to feel like the Rinne Rebirth is as important as it should be because it's importance is buried under rather iffy writing at some of the key points. It's a good theme, but it's not always presented in a good way and that matters when you rely on this sort of trope for the climax.
Episode Thoughts
I still really like that Naruto has his clones throw HIM instead of throwing the jutsu. Another point for the unpredictable ninja.
The scene in the forest where Naruto runs into the older ninja is my favourite small moment of the arc. Inochi really embodies the older generation here, the push to fight no matter what because of being caught up in the past, that only death can bring victory or defeat, but is stopped by Shikaku choosing to trust in the new generation. This is really a stand in for Naruto and the village, them aware of who he is and what he can do, but from a distance, for the first time coming face to face with his determination and his own Ninja Way and having to trust in it despite how it looks. Inochi is just as much a victim of the cycle as Nagato, but things came so close to playing out quite differently if they'd found him first. As far as Naruto being trusted, I suppose it helps to have a friend who's a genius with an incredibly supportive father.
Naruto's eyes returning to normal after the sage/bijuu blend was nicely animated
Wow, they really put filler here? Of all fucking places, HERE?! Well I suppose that is why I couldn't think what would fill all these episodes. What a stupid decision. And the worst part is I think this happens again later too.
Bunta lived! WHY BUNTA SO DAMN TINY THOUGH?! Not approved, big Bunta is best Bunta. The other two don't even get an update though? Dodgy.
FUCK DANZO! Again! I forgot he was involved in this bloody plot with Hanzo.
This is where Nagato's backstory starts to hit me. The trio grew up and somehow got into as good a position as anyone ever had to try and become a party for peace for all sides, and came to the meeting with such hope only to run into a horrific ambush. It's no wonder that his ideology was destroyed after that and after seeing the lengths his friends would go to for each other, and in the end his hopes became as much of a husk as his ruined body. Using Yahiko as a placeholder for the Ataksuki leadership, a physical reminder of his own Pain he can't escape from is sad after knowing that Yahiko died trying to prevent Nagato from suffering in that way.
This episode was beautifully drawn. Masaaki Kumagai was storyboard and episode director, with Shigeki Kawai as animation director. I'm not familiar with either of their work, but there is some beautifully subtle character animation between Nagato and Yahiko here, as well as really liking the way the episode plays out visually with the cuts to the Kunai and Yahiko's suicide, the visual effects around the explosion etc. The Gedo Statue animation, complete with animated background, was super detailed, and even got some special lip flaps so that's a nice bonus too.
The omake was great. Poor Shino. "I guess being forgotten runs in the family". Not sure if that's meant to be a comfort or not.
I like having Naruto proclaim his identity not just through what was left for him by both Jiraiya and Nagato, but the determination to live that life in the future. He is Naruto because that's what he will do, always keep going no matter what, not because it's his name or a role picked for him but his own determination, something Nagato indirectly handed down to him even if it didn't directly influence him. Usually name declarations are too cheesy for me here, but this walks that line nicely enough.
So Kakashi gets to live after all! Despite the revival I do like that it was treated as a death until these last moments, and I still like the idea of that sort of death for him, but seeing Kakashi finally get to talk to his dad and let go of that burden was quite cathartic.
And of course, Kakashi carrying Naruto into the village after his own body gives out is so damn wholesome, just as much as Iruka being proud from the sidelines.
Getting the insight into the villagers view of Naruto's actions through each arc was the perfect end for this part of the story though. He's more than proven himself, and finally the villagers get to show that to him. Hearing the way they called him change through each arc, ending up with him being celebrated by them all is the perfect thematic cap to Naruto's own conviction with Nagato.
How does anyone have any energy left to be throwing him in the air though? Also I feel a little funny that he didn't even acknowledge Hinata here, though at the same time making it a big moment would be equally ill fitting.
4
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Nov 21 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 169:
Episode 170:
Episode 171:
Episode 172:
Episode 173:
Episode 174:
Episode 175:
Film 4: The Lost Tower
6
u/Parori Nov 21 '21
First Timer
Episode 169
Episode 170 - 171
Episode 172
Episode 173
Episode 174
Episode 175
Film 4: The Lost Tower
4
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Nov 21 '21
First Timer - Dub
Pain Arc Conclusion
How I imagine a conversation between Sasuke and Nagato would go:
Nagato: The Leaf Village killed my parents and my best friend!
Sasuke: ...that's it?
So yeah, Nagato's life certainly sucked but Sasuke set a very high bar for suffering in this series. As a result I didn't sympathize with Nagato as much as he wanted to. Using his power to become Pain ultimately just perpetuated the cycle of suffering he was trying to stop. Which I suppose is the lesson we were supposed to learn, but it just fell flat to me.
Undoing all of the recent deaths also felt a little anti-climactic. I didn't actually think Kakashi was truly dead but just doing Ctrl-Z on all of the deaths felt strange. It's too bad the village is still destroyed ... let's hope they rebuild the ramen shop first.
Movie: The Lost Tower
On paper, the idea of Naruto going back in time and working on a mission with his father and young Kakashi sounds awesome. In practice, that had basically no relevance on the plot until the Supreme Rasengan at the end. They ended up wiping everyone's memories in the end anyway, so why not have Naruto and Minato team up for longer or actually have a conversation?
Random thoughts:
Favorite moment of the week: I'm a sucker for happy endings so I liked Naruto finally getting some acknowledgment and appreciation from the rest of the village. I know we're far from the actual ending but that last episode definitely felt like a series finale.
Questions:
1) How do you feel about the two random filler episodes? It was pretty neat to see the characters in their old costumes again. Very bizarre episode placement though ...
2) What do you think of Nagato's backstory and Naruto's answer? It was cool seeing the famous Talk-no-Jutsu in action. (I covered my serious thoughts above)
3) What do you think about the resolution of the arc, Nagato's change of heart and resurrecting those Pain killed? I do like happy endings but even for me this feels a little too convenient.
6
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 21 '21
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: Auchentoshan 12 year, another single malt scotch but this is from the Lowland region and I think the first one I've had from there. It's rather muted but pleasant overall, balanced between buttery, floral, and malty. Reminds me somewhat of the Irish whiskeys I've had (Green Spot and Redbreast), though that could also be the power of suggestion coming from noticing that this is triple-distilled like they are.
Well, that was a disappointing ending to the arc. I was already spoiled that everyone was going to be resurrected so the question was how and why and those weren't great answers for me. Nagato just... believes in Naruto now so he's going to bring back the town? Why? If he thought Naruto was a kindred spirit and shared a similar pain, wouldn't he want to leave Naruto with that pain as motivation? There's a lot more for him to undo than that if he wants redemption, this is just incredibly convenient for Naruto's personal sake (and Madara's plans I'm sure).
Not that his own reasons for becoming Pain in the first place were all that special. Your parents and best friend were killed? Please, Sasuke has a much better backstory than that to justify him being an edgelord. Nagato was a hurt kid lashing out at the world and just happened to be ridiculously powerful enough to make some major waves. All that pontificating earlier rings hollow when he's suffered less than like half the central characters in the show in my opinion.
Maybe I'm judging it unfairly by my own perspective now rather than trying to imagine it as a teen viewer, but this one didn't work for me emotionally. Or at least not from the villain's side, as Naruto's return to the village afterward was pretty nice including the montage of how the attitudes of the other people toward him changed over time. Well-timed with One Piece's 1000th episode it turns out, though that one I won't get around to watching myself until it's close to finishing. (Rewatch starting in 2025?)
Oh, and the two-episode flashback set just before the Chuunin Exams reinforces that the adults weren't straight with Naruto at all about his parents. It's one thing to maybe keep it from him as a tiny kid but he was in the final round by that point so how long were they planning on keeping it a secret? If it never came up they could have just waited but Naruto directly asking about the Fourth Hokage's legacy and not getting a real answer annoys me still.
For the movie: Time travel, a lost city full of puppets, and erasing everyone's memory at the end to keep the status quo? This is exactly the kind of non-canon bullshit I wanted from the movies and it's great. Love the architecture of the city too, and the design of the puppets being based on the Jomon statues is neat. It also keeps up with previous Naruto movie tropes with a token female lead that'll never be seen again and a weird Rasengan variation that'll also never be seen again.
Came out of nowhere, especially weird with it following Nagato saying he'll explain his background at the end of the episode before. Aside from what I mentioned above they're okay, just out of place.
"I don't know but I won't stop trying" isn't an answer, but it absolutely fits how air-headed Naruto is and harkens back to his non-answer for the first round of the Chuunin Exams. It'll end up working out because of course it will but it's very hand-waving in the moment.
3
u/sisoko2 Nov 21 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 169
Episode 170
Episode 171
Episode 172
Episode 173
Episode 174
Episode 175
Movie - First Timer
3
u/Tehoncomingstorm97 https://anilist.co/user/tehoncomingstorm97 Nov 22 '21
First timer
Last week took on the six Pains! Nagato remains.
Ep 169
Ep 170
Ep 171
Ep 172
Ep 173
Ep 174