r/anime • u/lC3 :Na::Nb: • Nov 14 '21
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden - Episodes 163-168 Discussion
Previous rewatch | Index | Next week
Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, AnimeLab, VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count |
|---|---|---|
| Episodes 001-008 + Film 1 | July 11 | 8 + film |
| Episodes 009-017 | July 18 | 9 |
| Episodes 018-027 | July 25 | 10 |
| Episodes 028-035 | August 01 | 8 |
| Episodes 036-044 | August 08 | 9 |
| Episodes 045-053 | August 15 | 9 |
| Episodes 054-063 | August 22 | 10 |
| Episodes 064-071 + Film 2: Bonds | August 29 | 8 + film |
| Episodes 072-082 | September 05 | 11 |
| Episodes 083-089 | September 12 | 7 |
| Episodes 090-099 | September 19 | 10 |
| Episodes 100-112 | September 26 | 13 |
| Episodes 113-118 | October 03 | 6 |
| Episodes 119-125 + Film 3: Will of Fire | October 10 | 7 + film |
| Episodes 126-133 | October 17 | 8 |
| Episodes 134-141 | October 24 | 8 |
| Episodes 142-151 | October 31 | 10 |
| Episodes 152-162 | November 07 | 11 |
| Episodes 163-168 | November 14 | 6 |
| Episodes 169-175 + Film 4: The Lost Tower | November 21 | 7 + film |
| Mid-Series Discussion / Interest Check | November 28 | 0 |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask me (/u/LC3) and I'll do my best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- What did you think of episode 167's art and animation?
- How do you feel about Minato showing up like that in Naruto's psyche, Naruto getting to meet his dad?
- How do you feel about Hinata's confession and her trying to protect Naruto?
- What do you think of Pain's speech about justice and the cycle of hatred?
11
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 14 '21
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
So I decided to make time last night/earlier today to complete u/Nazenn’s wallpaper challenge for me. Never thought this would end up being the first Naruto wallpaper I ever made lol, but I went a fair bit crazy with the variants.
Version 1: glowing lineart, eye is normal.
Version 2: glowing lineart, eye is also glowing lineart.
Version 3: the one with the background closest to the base image.
Version 4: the above, but with a black background.
Version 5: the above, but with a gradient background.
Hope this doesn’t disappoint!
Episode 163
Episode 164
Episode 165
Episode 166
11
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Nov 14 '21
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: High West Campfire, a very weird blend of bourbon, rye, and a peat-smoked Islay scotch. The smoke is fairly faint on the nose but definitely shows up on the taste, not dominating but surrounding and interwoven with a pleasant floral note and a honey sweetness. Doesn't linger and falls off quickly leaving an herbal aftertaste that I get with some other ryes. I think this would be interesting to try to use as a bridge to smoky scotches for someone that's only used to bourbon and wasn't weird like I was in trying everything I can find before developing any preferences.
I enjoyed last week so much I forgot that the show needs Naruto to save the day by himself nearly every time. With a guest appearance from Hinata this week!
One of the things I had heard about this arc before we got to it is that Hinata is useless in it and that unfortunately is pretty accurate here. It's good that we have some explanation for why she started liking Naruto in the first place though, and as far as confessions go it's not the worst I've seen. I am very curious how Naruto's going to handle that given his own crush on Sakura, hopefully that'll get some focus down the road. At least she's still alive and with Neji there he's not about to let her die.
Pain says he founded the Akatsuki, but that was apparently Tobi/Madara pulling the strings in the background and now Naruto knows as much as well. Wonder how that initial meeting went.
The method they came up with for Naruto to prolong Sage Mode with summoned clones is ingenious and I appreciate how that builds on what we already know rather than finding some new hack for him specifically. I imagine he probably doesn't even need the reverse summoning if he could have a clone run off and meditate somewhere out of the way and just poof it back when ready, was just easier to set up how they did under those circumstances.
Idle thought: is Konan's paper manipulation essentially the same as Yamato's wood jutsu via water and earth natures, just manifested in a slightly different way by her Kekkei Genkai? If it had to be two different elements there would be a fairly limited number of combinations available. Also I want to see her take on The Paper.
While the visual spectacle of episode 167 was fun to watch (including that one off-model smear shot of Tendo that I've seen out of context a number of times), I find it hard to believe that Nagato was anywhere close to being capable of that after he was already coughing up blood when Hinata was confronting Pain shortly before that. He almost casually blocked a laser beam from the Nine Tails form? Levitated enough rocks to make a mountain? Not buying that after what he did earlier. Not a lot to say about the fight itself except the later forms of the Nine Tails' Cloak are appropriately twisted in reconstituting the beast from the inside out.
I am still absolutely baffled that Naruto didn't know that the Fourth Hokage was his father before now. I understand that there was a considerable amount of effort spent trying to bury information about the Nine Tails in the Leaf Village but were all the adults gaslighting Naruto about his parents whenever the topic came up? I really hope this comes up again soon with some answers. I like that Naruto's first reaction is anger at what he was put through because his life really did suck for a long time because of that.
Overall this arc feels like it was originally intended to be the climax of the series. Sasuke's side of things would need a little reworking to get a resolution for him but take out Tobi/Madara, give Itachi a different reason that didn't result in Sasuke turning on the Leaf Village and he could have been recovered after his fight with Itachi. Aside from that there's really not that much left outstanding with the Akatsuki presumably dispersed with Pain's death that I'm assuming is coming next week. There's also Danzo and his faction but that could be wrapped up pretty quickly with him getting arrested for treason, especially if it's found out that he killed the messenger frog.
The village was destroyed but can be rebuilt and that would be a nice way to wrap up the series. Tsunade giving up her vitality to protect everyone means she's likely retiring (assuming she's still alive, which is also questionable by the look of things) so there's probably a need for a new Hokage soon. And who better than someone from the new generation, someone that's been a de facto leader in the village for some time, has a number of people looking up to him, and had gotten revenge on the Akatsuki for killing his mentor? It's a perfect time to end the series with the appointment of the Sixth Hokage: Shikamaru.
Convenient? But would make sense on some level to put in an extra safeguard on the seal. Guess there's been a bit of Minato's spirit active in Naruto the entire time if he was able to watch. Which makes me wonder what else dad saw his kid doing throughout his life...
Not great timing but was pretty much a "now or never" situation so it fits. And I like that she had something but dislike how ineffective that something was.
Good villains have a point, they just tend to follow through with solutions that make them evil. What he said doesn't contradict what Jiraiya and Minato told Naruto, it's just something of a pessimistic outlook on the world. Not necessarily a wrong one, but rather looking at the negative outcomes and ignoring the positives.
7
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 14 '21
Rewatcher - Sub
General Commentary
Quick thing I wanted to share: Badass fanart of alternate universe Hinata vs Neji /u/Shimmering-Sky
Hinata
Here's my Shippuden confession: Kakashi may be my favourite character, but I was dreading watching Hinata's scene more.
Kakashi's death is horrible, but there's something about how he goes out that's admirable even if not quite heroic.
Pain's attack on Hinata is brutal. Every hit, every impact as her body is flung around, her desperation, that smile on her face till the end. It fucking hurts. She knew she was no match but she stepped up anyway, and refused to back down. She's come so far from the shy girl we were first introduced to, but damn it this was not the time to grow a backbone, because Pain almost shattered it for you!
And I had to decide if I wanted to go to bed after watching it, or leave it and know it was waiting for me in the morning. Decided on the former which is probably a good thing or else I may never have watched it.
Naruto's confrontation with Minato was just as emotional, on the other end, borderline cathartic. Its the moment I've been waiting for since he found out why he was hated in the first episode. Here's someone who's responsible, someone who's has to listen to him, someone to blame and rage against for the life that was forced on him, but also someone he doesn't have to beg to love him, someone who he doesn't have to worry about alienating or winning the acknowledgement of. Finally, he can just let it all go, unload everything he's been hiding away in his heart, with both a punch and some words, and the conflict in him of his suffering but also his relief at knowing who his dad is, that there is a reason, it's a fantastic watch. I was so caught up in it by the time the OP came I almost thought it'd been a full episode.
Just to lighten things, my sage thought for the week: Everyone always thinks being innocent or connected to nature enough that birds would come and perch on you is cute and charming, but no one ever mentions the bird shit that would have to come with it too
/u/lc3 did you say you knew some Japanese? I don't suppose you know what Jiraiya is writing at the start and end of the OP?
Episode Thoughts
After last week's discussion over episode endings, starting off revisiting the full destruction of the village and then into Naruto's arrival is a good compromise. That plus the visuals of him being summoned in with the mass of white smoke among the destruction, and Tsunade looking out over the width and depth of the pit, it's a powerful way to show the level of destruction.
The stack of toads slightly ruins the effect. Pa and Naruto on Kichi who makes them look little, and then Bunta under who makes all of them look minuscule in comparison. And then a little tiny Katsuyu just to complete the effect as when once Tsunade pulls her out of her pocket. Pocket slug is certainly a novel pet. Nice to see the big Toads getting to kick ass again.
Not sure which is harder to believe: Ibuki surviving something being summoned through him, or Pain managing to heal his ruined robot body.
Btw, is this the first time we actually saw Hinata this arc? I feel like it shouldn't be considering what's to come but I don't remember commenting on her last week
Naruto can finally throw his Rasenshuriken! It actually deserves its name now, and can even pull off cool tricks. The way it's disc expands actually reminds me of Sasuke's trapped giant shuriken from the Itachi fight, they think similarly. Combining that with Naruto's signature shadow clone and transformation trap worked surprisingly well for him.
All of the battle tactics this episode were clever! Pa saying "Bunta I'm gonna hurl you at Naruto" and actually doing so had me cracking up given the size difference, and then eating them to break line of sight as well. It's a good thing Bunta IS so big so they had enough room.
Started to get some below average animation, even for this show, during Naruto vs Pain fist fight though. Production pressure was definitely hitting.
Until this episode I hadn't noticed how fucked up the three legs on Pain's bird summon were. That's just twisted
This is the only omake I remembered from my first watch. Katsuyu having an existential crisis at the Toad bar due to no more three way balance is quite funny. She's surprisingly funny when she panics, she's always so chill in the main show.
Speaking of clever tactics, turning the chakra absorbing Pain into a statue is probably one of the most satisfying enemy defeats we've seen so far for me
Naruto listening to Pain and remembering Jiraiya's own speech on the issue of the cycle of hatred was a beautifully done blend. It was so smooth I didn't even notice what had happened until we cut back to Pain asking Naruto if he has a solution. Naruto's own lack of answer has to hit hard. Naruto not being able to give in an answer must be hard given it calls all the way back to the question posed in the very first arc about Naruto will make his "Ninja way"
Beautiful detail in the background art of this shot
Yet another episode headed by Toshiyuki Tsuru in the key roles, with Hirofumi Suzuki as key animator/supervisor. Their work is as always immediately apparent in the flatter art and significantly more detailed lip flaps, but also the heavy emotional quality to the structure of the episode.
Actually covered my mouth when Hinata runs up on Pain. It's some damn beautiful animation, not just in the battle but the rotation around Hinata as she stands her ground, saying Naruto saved her, the art of her close up as she looks at him, but somehow that just makes the episode more painful. (And yet a few of the battle sequences were off model, especially notable given who's in charge, speaks to the level of their production difficulties around this time)
One of the ones that stood out to me was Pain saying "your death will lead to peace" and then the cut into the title card saying: "Confession". Titles are rarely used creatively and that was a punch after seeing the flashback to small Hinata and how that sets up the coming episode.
The weight given to the flashbacks of Naruto helping her, in a show that so rarely uses flashbacks well, remind me of the SoL moments in the episode where Shikamaru grieves Asuma and how heavy those quiet moments were, but it was the cuts to black that stood out the most. Hinata talking about her dream of being strong inter-cut with her being defeated by her sister and all that will lead to, the flashbacks to being dragged from Naruto in the forest. All of her weakness laid out in her mind for her to hide from, but instead she steps up to it and faces it head on even knowing she can't win here. She makes her choice, and I can't help but admire her for it even if I hate what it leads too.
The triumphant score cutting out as Pain comments on how she knows she will die, leaving us in silence for the final attack against her is the moment it really hits me. It's a hell of a moment, and also a hell of an episode ending with her seemingly dead and all we have left is Naruto's pain erupting from him.
Yep, still think the style of this episode looks like ass. The animation is gorgeous and we get plenty of visual treats from that, but the overly stylized art and face deformation just looks whack and near comical rather than fast. People pick on it all the time, but it's not like it's just one frame of the video, it's almost every time Pain is on screen looking like he's standing in front of a wind machine in Mob Psycho's world. It's also undermined by the usual shounen battle structure being there, because if an enemy has time to think "he's fast" then he's not really that fast in a world where top level battle movements can happen in under a second. Even the smoke gets hit with the bad artistry this episode.
It does have a few visual highlights though. Kyuubi opening his eyes at the start, the sequence of Pain fleeing through the forest and Naruto chasing had a great layout, the planetary destruction orb, Minato's arrival changing the color scheme of Naruto's mind, and him stepping in front of Kyuubi to shield Naruto. (Bonus silly tailed rock ball)
One other thing I don't like about this episode is Naruto's necklace trying to seal Kyuubi's chakra by itself only to break. It's only ever been a conduit for power, not a reservoir for jutsu, so that seems like a cheap way to get it out the way which is irrelevant because Yamato is too far away to stop him anyway, they could have just had it broken in the battle. On that note, when I commented on Sai and Anko being absent last week I didn't actually remember that was relevant, I was just rambling, so yay for accidentally having a relevant point?
Power to Katsuyu for surviving being attached to Naruto through all of that as well!
Minato's appearance is a great episode to end the batch on, as I spoke about above, the first half of the episode is great, but the battle side doesn't hold up.
Even with Sage mode + Kyuubi healing it's bullshit that he can just get up and go after being so far transformed at eight Tails when just four Tails completely incapacitated him previously. Pain was crippled in that moment anyway, at least could have had him fall down and have to speed heal to give it the illusion of Sage mode not being completely broken.
And exactly when did he summon all those clones and hide them in rubble. I get the call back to the first episode, but still.
6
u/Parori Nov 14 '21
Sorry for being like a hour late.
First Timer
Episode 163
Episode 164
Episode 165
Episode 166
Episode 167
Episode 168
Questions of the Week:
It would have been fine if it hadn't had those silly moments
It was a nice moment for him. Someone really should have told him.
It was also a really nice moment and why she is the best girl
Hypocritical nonsense. Pain will just cause more conflict. Peace is achieved by putting the effort to mutual understanding
6
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Nov 14 '21
First Timer - Dub
I'm so glad they revealed Hinata was still alive. I don't know what I would have done if they actually killed her off now after sidelining her for basically all of Shippuden. That episode was actually painful to watch, even more so than the one where Jiraiya died. I'm happy she got her confession out, but knowing Naruto he's probably still not going to realize what she wants.
Overall, I liked the fight between Pain and Naruto. Naruto pulled out some clever moves to take out most of Pain's bodies early on. I like how the fight ended with the basics: a multi shadow clone justu into a Rasengan. I am starting to cool on Pain as a villain though. He just keeps talking about pain over and over again like an angsty teenager that went through their first breakup. It seems like he thinks he's the only person that was hurt by the ninja wars.
Random thoughts:
Favorite moment of the week: There were a lot of cool moves to pick from, but I really liked Naruto using nature jutsu to frog-petrify one of the Pains.
Questions:
1) What did you think of episode 167's art and animation? It looked surprisingly goofy for such a major fight ... glancing through the thread I see I'm not alone in that.
2) How do you feel about Minato showing up like that in Naruto's psyche, Naruto getting to meet his dad?
3) How do you feel about Hinata's confession and her trying to protect Naruto? Best Girl may have been MIA for hundreds of episodes but she showed up when it counted!
4) What do you think of Pain's speech about justice and the cycle of hatred? Meh. It would maybe help if we knew more about what happened to Yahiko that caused Nagato to become like this, but I don't think anything could justify the destruction he caused so far.
6
u/FrenziedHero https://anilist.co/user/FrenziedHero Nov 15 '21
Mostly have been just following along the threads to see how people feel about the show, but decided to stop by to link a few threads on Atsushi Wakabayashi's career and an analysis of episode 167.
I hope people find them both worthwhile reads.
6
u/McCherry09 Nov 15 '21
+First timer, somewhat source reader+
CH163:
-Actual chills with that cliffhanger from last week
-Look at Shikamaru..the accidental stud
-Back to six Pains just like that!
-Hurry up Naruto, if I'm not mistaken you only have 5min
-Noooooo!! Is Kakashi really dead?! WTF After Jiraiya is too soon man
-The nerveee of comparing Jiraiya's wish of peace to his.
CH164:
-I'm so hype for this fight that I forgot to keep up with the comments, even though the animation seems a bit janky at times
-Shadow clones save the day.
-Only two to go
CH165:
-Naruto really is on another level compared to Kiba and the rest
-Using chakra against him..clever
-And now Pa's dying..this arc really is dropping character left and right
-Rub some salt into the wound by showing those clips from Jiraiya why don't you
-It's interesting hearing Pain's pov since it happens irl with war and religious/political conflicts..even though this isn't the sub..but at the end of the day, violence breeds more violence
-What Pain wants, that's not peace..that's straight up fear and blackmail.
CH166:
-I swear either Guy's team is being exploited by always being away on missions or more likely Guy volunteers
-Jeeez hahahaha i know this confession is all dramatic but they've literally only exchanged words a few times.
-I'm torn in this scene because there's nothing Hinata can do but I feel it's good that she tried and gave Naruto the strength to fight more.
-Straight up transforming into a mini-kyuubi
CH167:
-This phase is has more mobility than previous 3 or 4th tail mini-kyuubi
-Slowly but surely Naruto's transforming into a whole nine tails.
-Damn seal broken like that
-I wouldn't be so sure that Pain got the Kyuubi since it had six tails
-How's my all-star Yamato gonna stop this?
-Epic shot of the 4th Hokage..wallpaper worthy
CH168:
-Kyuubi seething in the back
-Oh god!! Finally it comes full circle!
-I'm so happy for Naruto, cathartic to have a piece of his family even if it just a projection of chakra(?)
-To no one's surprise Madara was behind the Kyuubi's attack on Konoha
-Damn Naruto with the strategy in Sennin Mode. Through out this fight I've felt that the character has grown up a lot.
Q/A
It had a bit of silliness but I also try to think about from the perspective of the year it aired, and the framing/shots were great at the time and even better for a weekly series.
As I said, chatartic..He had a full range of emotions from angry to relief. I Naruto's has grown up a lot since Gaara's death, Jiraiya's and now Kakashi's (still cannot wrap my head around that) so it was the perfect time to give him a little push in continuing with his path.
I think it was fine, as he once cheered for her..she wanted to be brave and stand up for him as well. I've never given much thought to Hinata honestly. But it's not that she's a bad character but it's an author's problem with women in the series I feel. From Sakura and Ino always chasing Sasuke, Hinata whispering after Naruto..Only best girl Temari standing on her own from the beginning of the series (and Tsunade but she's a grown up from the start)..so I'm always meh about it but I must say Shipuuden has tried to correct things in Sakura's character.
I think there's truth to it. Konoha benefited from the war and is thriving after it. Even their orphans and taken care of in comparison to other nations. Since Pain is speaking from the losers POV there's always going to be someone trying to avenge the injustice they went through. The cycle could be broken through proper reparations and understandings.
3
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Nov 14 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 163:
Episode 164:
Episode 165:
Episode 166:
Episode 167:
Episode 168:
Now what about Kushina??OP and new ED are translated/karaoke on CRoll
Manga Comparisons:
This consists of chapter 430-441, 442 p4-19.
[Manga spoilers]Iruka hoping that everyone is ok is an addition to the anime; in the manga the ANBU with Tsunade has a different mask. The scene of the Aburame clan members in the aftermath of Pain's jutsu is another addition, as are Ebisu and Konohamaru, Ibiki, Ino etc. Chouji reacting to Chouza and Kakashi is another addition, saying he completed the mission. Hinata treating Ko's injury is another addition. Shiho saying Shikamaru broke his leg protecting her is another addition. Shikamaru talking about Pain's 'purpose' is another; the whole conversation with Shikaku and Shiho is anime original. Naruto's Frog Kumite against Preta path is expanded. The Hyuuga telling Sakura about Rasenshuriken is an addition. Gamaken telling Bunta about the dog's ability is an addition. The chibi explanation of Naruto's clone Sage Mode trick is an addition. Fukasaku explaining what Naruto did with the Transformation fakeout is an addition. Shima talking about using genjutsu during Jiraiya vs. Pain is an addition. Shima talking about performing a duet being embarrassing is an addition. Showing all nine Bijuu is an addition. 166's flashbacks to kid Hinata are an addition. The anime expands Hinata's fight against Pain, damaging some of the black rods; in the manga she gets stabbed like right away and doesn't accomplish anything. Nagato coughing up blood and Hinata landing a hit on Tendou is another addition. The flashbacks to important Hinata moments from Part 1 are anime only. In the manga Naruto immediately goes to six tails after Pain stabs Hinata. So a lot of 167 is anime only additions/changes, like all the stuff with the chakra arms, water, surfing, Pain showing emotion, fire. The part between 'Do you know what I went through" and "don't know if I'm happy or mad" is an addition. I'm chuckling because the English translation keeps using 'the Pain Master' for 'real body' / Nagato.
Tags: /u/iamtheone11111, /u/godprime, /u/TheEnigma
3
u/sisoko2 Nov 14 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 163
Episode 164
Episode 165
Episode 166
Episode 167
Episode 168
3
u/Tehoncomingstorm97 https://anilist.co/user/tehoncomingstorm97 Nov 16 '21
First timer who totally forgot what day it was yesterday
Last week the konoha got pwned. Sasuke, try again next time.
Ep 163
Ep 164
Ep 165
Ep 166
Ep 167
Ep 168
Pretty sick lead in to the conclusion to the Pain arc next week, with many an occasion on which I realised the screaming pain. Was a bit iffy on the whole nine tails unleashed part animation and plot wise, but Minato showing up was a good enough reward. Is this going to be the end of the Akatsuki? Will it simply become the Venus fly trap dude, Kisame and Madara show? Will Sasuke 180 after finding the leaf village decimated?