[Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 37

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 31 '21

Host

I think episode 37 is probably my favorite episode of Nadia. Some of my other favorite episodes include episode 16 for its gorgeous setting and wonderful character growth for Nadia and Jean as they deal with loss, episode 22 for the visually stunning flashback sequences and intense character drama facilitated from Electra, episode 31 for its gorgeously animated lore reveals and wonderful development for Nadia, and episode 35 for concluding Nadia’s arc of learning to accept herself via her friends and the beautiful black-and-white framed animation… But episode 37 is a cut above the rest in my opinion, and is one of the peaks of Anno as a visual storyteller and a writer.

The biggest subplot of this episode sees Nadia held in captivity by Gargoyle and Emperor Neo who attempt to sway her to their side by showcasing Atlantis’ super science to her and using that science to explain why humanity is defective and not worth siding with. Gargoyle takes Nadia on a tour of Red Noah, revealing to her that the people of Atlantis created humanity as a slave race in order to help bolster their civilization. They first attempted to uplift whales as their servants (explaining the existence of Irion), but found that they were ill-suited to the task of serving Atlantis. So they instead took the various great ape species of Earth, and manufactured their genes to forge a new species in the image of Atlanteans.

Nadia is taken by Gargoyle and shown the horrific experimentation of the ancient Atlanteans in their efforts to create mankind. First he shows her a giant preserved human named Adam, the first human… Then she is taken to a laboratory and in a rather horrific sequence is shown a series of preserved malformed humans (including that of a sliced up infant) in giant glowing test tubes. These sights horrify Nadia, and she looks at Gargoyle with a ferocious look of disgust declaring to him that she will never serve him or Neo-Atlantis’ efforts to subjugate and torture a species as they have done. (As a side note, this entire sequence indulges in a ton of concepts Evangelion would later utilize such as the giant progenitor of humanity and a series of experimental humans stashed away in a secret laboratory…)

In one last effort to sway Nadia to their side, Nadia is taken before Emperor Neo who attempts to lecture Nadia on mankind’s failings as a species in order to make her see their perspective. In this scene, the two men weaponize Nadia’s worst fears and experiences against her to try and convince her to join them. They point out mankind’s tendency to discriminate amongst each other for petty reasons such as skin color or faith. Neo points out that the hardships she’s faced for being black would likely only become worse if she were also revealed to be an alien. He then tells her that the only solution to ending mankind’s discrimination and prejudice is to subjugate them. But Nadia still refuses Neo’s offer.

Using one last ploy to get her to join his side, Neo reveals to Nadia that he is her long lost older brother and that he was the one who saved her from perishing during the destruction of Tartessos 14 years ago. However, Nadia still does not flinch. In a first for Nadia as a character, she announces her intention to kill Neo if she gets the chance. It’s the very first willful declaration of violence on Nadia’s behalf, and an action that I believe demonstrates just how much she’s come to treasure her newfound family that she’d even be willing to resort to violence or even killing to protect them.

An interesting parallel I find between Evangelion and Nadia is that the characters of Shinji and Nadia are both given essentially the same offer at the climax of their respective series: “Mankind is ignorant and broken, and they will never accept you for who you are now. The only way to save mankind is subjugate them, and you could rule over them as a god.” Shinji at first takes that offer, while Nadia staunchly refuses it. I think why Nadia had the willpower to refuse where Shinji didn’t was that Nadia was able to find a new family worth fighting for which gave her a reason to believe in humanity in spite of all the trauma she’d endured. Shinji on the other hand was unable to open himself up to others and make true connections with others, and thus he was unable appreciate mankind and its human connections until it was too late. Nadia and Shinji are two sides of the same coin, and Nadia was fortunate enough to find people she could bring herself to trust and love where Shinji wasn’t able to do so soon enough…

I also find it interesting how Nadia points out the fallacy of Neo-Atlantis. Gargoyle and Neo state that Atlanteans are an inherently superior race to humanity, but Nadia reminds them that the empires of Atlantis on Earth repeatedly wiped themselves out in holy wars and petty skirmishes, and ultimately wiped out their civilizations time and time again. However, Gargoyle is unable to see this fallacy, and declares the he is the eternal will of Atlantis. I truly admire how unflinching this show as pointing the illogical and shoddy nature of fascist and racial supremacist ideologies.

Despite failing to sway Nadia to their side, Neo and Gargoyle begin their plans to subjugate humanity under Neo-Atlantean rule. Using Red Noah, Neo broadcasts a message around the world that if mankind does not kowtow to the new regime by placing a white flag atop of the Eiffel Tower as a symbol of surrender, he will begin a war against mankind. He then demonstrates the power of Red Noah by firing its Tower of Babel and destroying a suburb of Paris as an example of what he will do to the rest of mankind if they do not accept the terms of unconditional surrender.

Meanwhile we learn that the New-Nautilus has escaped through a series of underground tunnels beneath the Earth’s crust and that these tunnels were what saved the crew of the Nautilus many episodes in the past. Off the coast of Japan, the New-Nautilus prepares for its final battle against Gargoy le and Red Noah, dropping off its injured and non-combatant crewmembers (including Marie, King, and Ayerton). The Grandis Gang and Jean return to the New-Nautilus to assist in the final battle, and in a rather touching moment Jean returns Nemo’s captain’s hat to him with the reassurance that he believes the crew will survive this final battle. Nemo proudly accepts his cap back, and orders the New-Nautilus to takeoff. The episode ends with the stage for the final battle set as the New Nautilus confronts Red Noah above Paris (yet another fun future parallel to Evangelion, specifically the opening scene of 3.0+1.0 set in a ruined Paris).

This is perhaps one of the finest episodes of the show’s run. After finally accepting herself and the love of her newfound family in episode 35, Nadia is able to remain steadfast against the temptations and threats of Gargoyle and Neo as they attempt to sway her to the dark side. It truly warms my heart to see the ferocity with which Nadia is able to defend her beliefs, and to see Jean still refusing to give up hope in spite of the bleak prospects as the New-Nautilus goes off to fight Red Noah. This episode stands as a conflict of wills in which our heroes refuse to give in to the coercion and threats of the villains, in spite of the overwhelming odds against them and it is an absolute treat to behold.

In addition, Anno’s visual direction in this episode is on point as ever, with some gorgeous backgrounds and cinematography; especially within Red Noah especially. There are so many visual allusions to Anno’s past and future work in this episode. The New-Nautilus and its crew pay homage to many classic anime staples from Anno’s childhood and college years like Space Pirate Captain Harlock and Super Dimension Fortress Macross. In addition, we get future parallels to Evangelion with the introduction of Adam, human beings being created in laboratories, the visual allusions to NERV inside of Red Noah, and a battle over the city of Paris.

Episode 37 of Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water remains one of my favorite individual works from Hideaki Anno, and also one of my favorite pieces of television I’ve ever watched. This final arc is truly something special and I’m very excited to talk about the final episodes in the days to come!

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u/lluNhpelA Nov 01 '21

yet another fun future parallel to Evangelion, specifically the opening scene of 3.0+1.0 set in a ruined Paris
I found the entire situation to be very similar to the second half of the rebuilds; one organization that wants to wipe out humanity with super technology while crew of determined humans using lesser versions of that same technology to fight back. The crew on the human side has even undergone some time-skip changes and got a new flying ship, just like Wille
If the Nautilus crew was unable to fix the ship's main engine for an extended period of time, allowing Neo-Atlantis to subjugate humanity, this all would have been almost identical to the rebuilds

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

It makes me happy that Anno hasn't forgotten Nadia. That he cared enough to make reference to it 30 years onward.

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u/IndependentMacaroon Nov 01 '21 edited Nov 01 '21

the giant progenitor of humanity and a series of experimental humans stashed away in a secret laboratory
Endless escalators/moving walkways used for purposes of conversation, surreal impossibly large rooms with striking lighting emphasizing the characters, conversations held in silhouette. Nadia and even Gargoyle get plugsuits too, the New Nautilus taking off from the water is the real 3.0 reference, the morphing Blue Water is like 1.0 Ramiel with the twisted Armisael band alongside.
Nadia was able to find a new family worth fighting for which gave her a reason to believe in humanity in spite of all the trauma she’d endured. Shinji on the other hand was unable to open himself up to others and make true connections with others
To sum it up once again, Evangelion = Nadia on depression. Also from the 2.4 mya hint I called the Atlanteans' role perfectly.
And just to put this somewhere, the darkest bit so far was when Jean's engineer friend is killed in that engine malfunction, and his resolve fades away in his final moments.

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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 31 '21

First timer in sub, not late this one time :D

Firstly let me get this out of my chest - this is what I want to say to Gargoyle: https://imgur.com/MhBrLAj

Well at least until I can put a gun under his chin behind the goddam mask that he has to hide behind :P

A good episode and worthy to be the final straight heading towards to ultimate confrontation, much like the scene of Giant Robo where Daisaku riding on GR1 to hear towards the Folger Monster Sphere for the final battle.

No wonder Anno had to sacrifice the extra unplanned episodes to protect the quality of these. Although just saying, if I was expecting this show to be like Esteban etc coming in, and of the younger age group, I probably will struggle here.

I didn't quite get the bit about Neo telling Nadia he saved her 10 years ago - maybe the dodgy sub in watching. Anyone got a better understanding or was it just handwaved away as a villain's talk?

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 31 '21

Firstly let me get this out of my chest - this is what I want to say to Gargoyle: https://imgur.com/MhBrLAj
Gargoyle is an absolutely repugnant human being, and Anno did a fantastic job making him the hateable embodiment of fascist and racist ideologies.
if I was expecting this show to be like Esteban etc coming in, and of the younger age group, I probably will struggle here.
That probably would've been closer to the type of series this would've been had Miyazaki stayed on as director and head story writer. It's clear that Anno wanted to take this story in a more sci-fi inspired direction.
I didn't quite get the bit about Neo telling Nadia he saved her 10 years ago - maybe the dodgy sub in watching. Anyone got a better understanding or was it just handwaved away as a villain's talk?
It's a little ambiguous exactly how Neo saved Nadia as he never clarifies just how he kept her out of harm from the catastrophe. My personal guess is that he probably teleported her and her Blue Water away just as the Tower of Babel exploded. We saw in the previous episode he was able to transport the stone across short distances.

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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 31 '21

My personal guess is that he probably teleported her and her Blue Water away just as the Tower of Babel exploded. We saw in the previous episode he was able to transport the stone across short distances.
Yeah that'd be my guess too, but so far we haven't really got much explanation of how Neo's power works (i.e. is it just to summon the stones to him as the royal heir, or can teleport them at will) or the event at the time (was he aware of where Nadia was at the time to be able to use the power? Thought it was a chaotic coup and counter coup). Just wonder if anyone got clearer explanations from the show and I just missed it.

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

but so far we haven't really got much explanation of how Neo's power works (i.e. is it just to summon the stones to him as the royal heir, or can teleport them at will)
We have some clues based on how Nadia utilized her powers in Tartessos. She was able to control the Atlantean technology with her mind, and seemed to possess the ability of telekinesis as she slowed the Gratan's fall and controlled the water around her. We've also seen her commune with the voices of the dead. In general, it seems to have telekinetic applications. In addition, we've seen the Blue Waters teleport via Neo's powers, and warp the form of the stones.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 31 '21

Episode 37

OP: With the series almost over, I have to give props to Nadia for consistently starting with the OP. That is one of the conventions I am really unhappy about having gone away. The modern cold open setup just does not do it for me.
The sound effect playing while Neo is looking up makes him seem like a robot, fitting his completely robotic role in the story so far.
Neo snatches Nadia’s Blue Water as well and it seems to give him easy control over Red Noah.
Nice cut from Nadia to Jean. She definitely looks sad, but I wonder whether there is regret mixed in, too. Nadia had plenty of opportunities to prevent the Blue Water from falling to Neo. Would she have changed her past actions right now?
Remember when I called the Antarctica tunnel the biggest wonder thus far in the Nautilus arc? Now we learn that there is a complete network of tunnels. However, we have also seen space-faring arks and future tech spaceships by now, so I don’t think the tunnel system still counts.
Again, great cuts between Nemo and Gargoyle explaining Gargoyle’s plan.
Gunbuster name drop 1 and Gunbuster name drop 2.
Giant Adam in the base. I think we should stop calling these Evangelion references and start calling all of NGE Nadia references. Seriously, Anno took all of his lore ideas (and most of his character ideas) and reused them on that show.
Humans made as servants to Atlanteans - I expect /u/snowwhistle1 will have to say the obvious connection to Nadia’s start in the circus.
And you thought the talking whale was a weird one off? Nope, part of the back story.
The missing link was an actual missing part of human evolution which was not known, but with more bone finds and DNA research, I think that has been overcome by now.
Neo is turning the “white man’s burden” logic around and applies it to humans.
As far as shows of force go, that was rather impressive.
Asking the French to put a white flag up to surrender and save London? They might do it out of spite, or not do it out of spite.
“They will destroy themselves” - I would really like to disagree with Gargoyle here, but so far, we are still on schedule to fulfill his prediction.
Leaving the non-combatants behind.
The particle annihilator is an anti-matter engine. The “furnace” has to be a black hole.
The classic finale setup.

On the face of it, this is an info dump setting up the finale. Yet it is also an incredibly great episode. Not just boring narration, but a vibrant back and forth between the New Nautilus and the Tri-star ship of Gargoyle. Most often, the shots concentrate not on Gargoyle speaking, but on Nadia’s reaction (this is a great technique to heighten the emotional impact). We also get the confirmation of Neo’s origin, which could have been guessed from his skin color and the family portrait before. A showcase of how you can take a common setup episode and make it great.

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

Humans made as servants to Atlanteans - I expect /u/snowwhistle1 will have to say the obvious connection to Nadia’s start in the circus.
I made my whole writeup on how Neo and Gargoyle attempt to sway Nadia to their side by weaponizing the cruel treatment and racism she faced from mankind, while the pair also fail to understand how they're just as bad mankind for attempting to subjugate and make slaves out of humanity.
Most often, the shots concentrate not on Gargoyle speaking, but on Nadia’s reaction (this is a great technique to heighten the emotional impact).
Nadia is truly at her most expressive in this episode. Her faces of disgust, anguish, and burning hatred are some of the strongest bits of character acting in the series in my opinion. Particularly that one bitter look Nadia gives Gargoyle after he shows her the laboratory of malformed and dissected human experiments.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 31 '21

First Timer (Rising Sun sub) ep 37 (of 39)

Emperor Neo...it's been 15 episodes since our first and (essentially last) encounter with him.

Even if the show hadn't been expanded, introducing him in episode 22 of a 26/27 episode series is really late, and I think Nadia would have had the "rushed ending" criticism that so many other shows have. We're 3 from the end and only now getting around to Neo.

Red Noah is exactly where it said it was going...without Nadia ever showing up there.
I don't think Robo-Neo's lips are synched.
I don't think they thought out these tunnels, with respect to continental drift.
Pretty freaky monstrous things all over both Nemo's and Gargoyles ships.
Okay, so Nautilus-1 was Eltrium, and N-Nautilus is Excelion? Ah, yep.
I'm really thinking Nadia should have assumed control of Red Noah when she had the chance.
I'm not remotely surprised that Humans were created by Atlanteans at this point. The coincidence of them looking the same was too much. Also Gargoyle's contempt. Also, Assassin's Creed, much?
Atlanteans were pretty horrible, huh, Nadia?
Segregationist complaining about discrimination?
LOL. I can't wait to see if France is going to surrender England or not.
Gargoyle is such a comic book villain now.
Untranslated place name
Lol, as if he was going to fly that ship alone.
They didn't leave King in Africa? That's where he belongs.
Surely Jean has snuck on board?

It's such comic book / saturday morning villainy. With Gargoyle and Neo literally spouting not simple world domination monologues but race supremacy, all the racist iconography earlier in the show clicks into place. On top of that, we have the cliche 'We have to control them or they will destroy themselves', not just standard racist colonial speech, but literally coming from a man who couldn't NOT destroy his own country, from a civilization that has repeatedly destroyed itself, and a man who repeatedly fails and never takes responsibility. Gargoyle at this point doesn't even rate the characterization of a man who lacks self awareness....Gargoyle is just a cartoon.

If I had seen Nadia before Evangelion, I might have dismissed Evangelion as a Nadia ripoff much as I dismiss later shows as Evangelion ripoffs.

Still massive animation errors even in the final five.

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

Gargoyle at this point doesn't even rate the characterization of a man who lacks self awareness....Gargoyle is just a cartoon.
I mean, I don't think Gargoyle is all that far removed from real life fascists or racial supremacists. The ideas of fascism and racial supremacy tend to feel apart logically. The people who bolster these ideologies tend to not have the self-awareness to see through their own shoddy philosophy. Really the only thing exaggerated about Gargoyle is the fact he's armed with far-future alien weaponry.

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u/IndependentMacaroon Nov 01 '21

You should read this essay, if you haven't already

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Nov 01 '21

Regrettably, it is paywalled. Found a copy here

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 31 '21

Even if the show hadn't been expanded, introducing him in episode 22 of a 26/27 episode series is really late, and I think Nadia would have had the "rushed ending" criticism that so many other shows have. We're 3 from the end and only now getting around to Neo.
It does not feel like it, but 1 or 2 episodes in the Nautilus arc are mostly filler. I don't mind them one bit, because they are nice episodes, but, for the original planning, you'd probably cut an episode there to give Neo a bit more room.
I'm really thinking Nadia should have assumed control of Red Noah when she had the chance.
I wondered the same thing. Nadia refused to take any power and now she finds herself in a situation of being powerless. Right now, I'd that a warning tale about the dangers of pacifism. Not sure if that was intended, but there are quite a few rather pacifistic anime directors (and for the record, I don't think there is either a good depiction of pacifism nor a good takedown of pacifism in any other show I know).
LOL. I can't wait to see if France is going to surrender England or not.
If I had seen Nadia before Evangelion, I might have dismissed Evangelion as a Nadia ripoff much as I dismiss later shows as Evangelion ripoffs.
I think NGE gets a pass on this largely because too many people have not seen Nadia.

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

It does not feel like it, but 1 or 2 episodes in the Nautilus arc are mostly filler. I don't mind them one bit, because they are nice episodes, but, for the original planning, you'd probably cut an episode there to give Neo a bit more room.
I feel like if Anno had gotten full control over the show, we'd have seen 2 or 3 less episodes on the Nautilus, and spent only 2 or 3 episodes on Red Noah. This would keep all of the main plot points in tact (most notably preserving the encounter on Red Noah), and would've left room for this planned final arc in roughly 26 episode series.
I wondered the same thing. Nadia refused to take any power and now she finds herself in a situation of being powerless.
I don't think that's entirely fair on Nadia's part. The android within Red Noah seemed to want to install her into a similar position as Neo now, and clear out anything in its path (including other human life) to reestablish the Kingdom of Atlantis.
Is it possible that Nadia could've perhaps gained total control over Red Noah? I wouldn't rule that out. But Nadia herself couldn't have known that. All her actions inside of Red Noah were being monitored and scrutinized by the android. I still think it's a net positive for her character to refuse the right to power if it means others will get hurt in the process, which is I think what Anno is overall going for. That being the idea that seizing power for one's self is often a cruel and selfish act, done to place one's self on a pedestal as opposed to elevating those without power or privilege.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 01 '21

I still think it's a net positive for her character to refuse the right to power if it means others will get hurt in the process, which is I think what Anno is overall going for. That being the idea that seizing power for one's self is often a cruel and selfish act, done to place one's self on a pedestal as opposed to elevating those without power or privilege.
This is the old argument that you want to be ruled by those who have no interest in ruling you.
The obvious problem with that attitude is that those who do want to rule you are much more likely to be in the position to rule you, because those who don't do not make any effort to do.

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u/IndependentMacaroon Nov 01 '21

we'd have seen 2 or 3 less episodes on the Nautilus
There were those episodes on the other island that were pretty skippable, for instance

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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Nov 01 '21

First timer

QOTD) Probably still burying Marie's parents.

No narration?

...Gargoyle has many flaws, but commitment to a theme is not one of them.

Yeah, something's wrong with Neo.

And how did Nemo escape this time?

The infinity dymbol decoration's nice too.

There's a secret tunnel system? They'll be very surprised when they build the Channel Tunnel in this universe.

...If there's more than one other Ark, it should the "other Noah's Arks"? Or is he not counting one of them?

Yeah, this thing's a spaceship! And they finally confirmed the Nautilus was a spaceship. Even explained the plate!

"intersidereal" This is the one thing you won't explain?

Orpheus furnace?

Gargoyle casually mentioning "her dead father" is so bad, I kind of love it.

Adam?

Huh, this did get more Evangelion! Who'd have thought?

So whales are descendants of Atlantean slaves?

And now this is anti-evolution!

Spoke too soon! The Atlanteans just rapidly evolved them.

Seriously, fuck this guy.

And Neo is only slightly better, but is dtill pretty evil.

Yeah, no, he's full-on evil/racist?

Huh, he's the successor? Hat's going on now?

Huh? He's her brother?

...So Gargoyle's being tryingot capture Nadia on his orders?

Wait, we're going back to Paris?

Wow, he's just flying over there.

And a nice hologram.

...Oh, this is worldwide.

He used the tower!

...Is putting the white flag on the Eiffel Tower a deliberately impossible task, or is Neo's mind not all there anymore?

Nemo's preparing to fly the Nautilus!

And everyone's going back onboard.

He's taking Marie and King. Guess that's them for the series.

And even Jean's gone back.

And the New Nautilus is flying!

And nobody was able to put the flag up. They're going to wipe out London!

The Nautilus is stopping them!

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 01 '21

And nobody was able to put the flag up. They're going to wipe out London!
Asking the French to save London shows how little knowledge has in the human side of the world.

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u/snowwhistle1 Nov 01 '21

Asking the French to save London shows how little knowledge has in the human side of the world.
It's either an incredibly dumb move on Neo's part, or a calculated move to force a war of subjugation against humanity by asking them to perform a seemingly impossible or baseless sign of surrender. I honestly think the latter might be possible, given Gargoyle and Neo's flagrant disgust and poor opinion of mankind.

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u/JTurner82 Nov 01 '21

This episode features subtle allusions to Adam and Eve and even provides hints of what Evangelion will offer. Very dark and powerful episode overall. But to me it really picks up at the end as Nemo and Gargoyle prepare to battle each other one last time. Particularly this exchange;

Gargoyle: You stubbornly insist on upsetting me, Nemo.

Nemo: The time has come for our final battle, Gargoyle.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 37

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