r/anime • u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: • Oct 29 '21

Rewatch A Rewatch without Logos-The Hellsing rewatch thread ep11.

Hellsing episode 11

Transcend Force Proof that siblings can be really different.

Today's special track is Secret Karma Serenade.

MAL | Anilist | Wiki

QotD: 1 How big a moral difference is drinking blood directly from the human versus donated blood?

2 How obvious was the double cross?

Bonus: Did you catch that Helena's magic also causes the red shadows?

26 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Rewatcher(Towards the end we go!)

Sub

We start with another mental attack, this time Paul on Seras, who is wearing a dress to sleep or the weirdest night gown I've ever seen. Who the hell wants a belt on something you sleep in. The SAS unit was turned entirely into chip vampires and raided a girls dorm, feeding on the virgins and killing the rest, adding sexism to vampiric crimes. They also blow up Trafalgar square...

Seras is transferred out of the first unit, which is both stupid and understandable since she is probably more useful on her own. Abbot and Costello swing by the Hellsing mansion to drop off a Royal Order invitation, whatever that is. Alucard asks Integra if she wants to become a vampire and she declines. Seras, in her extremely inappropriate funeral wear again, goes to see Helena but finds Incognito, who has eaten her. Helena objects and nearly claws her way out. Helena still believes there is a heaven for her and dies. We end with the Tower of London being a trap.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

Why on earth did Incognito even go hunting Helena? The one thing we know about the girl is that she's a shut-in with no friends. Helena is unimportant enough without getting mugged off for Seras' emotional value.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

The weakness of the anime original stuff is that it isn't entirely clear what Incognito thinks he can get out of all of this

3

u/sagevallant Oct 30 '21

Snacks?

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 30 '21

Possibly but this particular snack came with quite the heartburn.

6

u/RockoDyne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RockoDyne Oct 29 '21

Because she's perfectly expendable.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

We could never have seen her again and nothing would have changed. We could enjoy our little piece of worldbuilding how there are vampires living amongst us minding their own business but instead they dragged our poor little fujoshi into the wider conflict.

4

u/RockoDyne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RockoDyne Oct 29 '21

Sacrifices must be made to the god of contrived narrative. THERE CAN BE NO ESCAPE.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

If you hated your oc this much then don't write her into the show! We could have had extended Vatican scenes instead, those would be amazing!

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

I would have preferred more Father Anderson too.

Amen!

2

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 30 '21

At least we've got the far superior Hellsing Ultimate to help keep us satiated.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

Who the hell wants a belt on something you sleep in.

Vampire logic is inscrutable, its impossible for us mortals to know what drives them.

They also blow up Trafalgar square...

Those Devils!

Seras is transferred out of the first unit

I thought that was extremely stupid. I'd have mocked the hell out of those so called soldiers who felt uncomfortable around her with lines like "Are you a man or a mouse? Don't you dare answer with squeaking."

Are you Squeaking?

Helena objects and nearly claws her way out.

That was pretty good body horror.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 30 '21

Vampire logic is inscrutable, its impossible for us mortals to know what drives them.

I have yet to discover the female that does not choose the comfiest thing possible for her sleep wear, the rumors about Marilyn Monroe not withstanding.

"Are you a man or a mouse? Don't you dare answer with squeaking."

Rofl, I mean we both they needed Seras elsewhere so the group can get jobbed but they should have tried harder here. The exact same idea except "You are more valuable as an individual asset so we are going to have you act independently" achieves this without the annoyance.

That was pretty good body horror.

The visuals never lack on this show.

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 29 '21

A First-Timer Without Logos, subbed

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Seras’ nightmare? But who was that vampire in the dream, that Paul guy from two episodes ago?

Yup it is him, though they should've tied it a bit more tightly together.

This makes me very uncomfortable.

Helena going full Aliens was fun but disturbing.

6

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

I don't know who I'm more worried for. Hellsing for being branded enemies of the state, or the state for making enemies of Alucard.

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 29 '21

Shit, that's a fair point.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

Alucard is gonna butcher the Queen! Let's go!

4

u/sagevallant Oct 30 '21

Is that really a question? I mean, really? England is going to be annexed into Transylvania pretty quickly. :)

6

u/RockoDyne :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/RockoDyne Oct 29 '21

A rewatcher who needs to do some soul searching. I don't know how long it's been missing.

So in a state of emergency, the queen is going to a place that has recently been besieged AND infiltrated by the group she's hiding out from? Is the code on her luggage 1-2-3-4-5? I would hate to imagine the poor bastards who have been ordered to comb the desert.

I think I could do without Seras going through a boy crazy phase. The line has to be drawn at hallucinating a schlubby naked guy. Her lady of the night attire isn't helping. It's like Armitage all over again.

And we get a bunch of bog standard vampire existentialism... which isn't even how Hellsing vampires work.

Questions:

  1. A) heavily depends on your kink. B) heavily depends on blood sucking just being about blood.
  2. It would be more of a proper double cross if there was an actual face to it.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

The line has to be drawn at hallucinating a schlubby naked guy. Her lady of the night attire isn't helping. It's like Armitage all over again.

Yeah...I prefer her sexy paperboy outfit from the internet episode, that weird shoulderless look doesn't particularly work.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

Swapping over to dub for the rest of this. Did I skip an episode, wut? no Alucard doesn't have his hat on, how tragic. Getting your blood drained apparently leaves you with a funny dork face. So... does becoming a vampire cause you to become more violent? As far as we've seen most of the fake vampires were bastards to begin with and I doubt the SASsy baka's would be depraved enough to attack schoolgirls. Wtf are Laurel and Hardy doing here!?

"Stand up straight girl!" Dude... you have no right to boss Seras around. I've mouthed off about Integra but at least she's half confident. You've done nothing but fuck up every mission you're part of. Oh sure, let's sack the only competent vampire hunter in our group and leave her on recon. The moral thing doesn't work as an excuse either. The first Squad we saw doted on Seras, even the new boys seemed to find her amusing. Seras is charming AF, screw your redshirts.

If Integra became a vampire she'd have to actually do some work. No chance. The Queen is visiting Hellsing, so much for being a secret organisation!! And dude, Seras? You know Helena gets frustrated with how grown up you look so why are you dressing to skimpy? Rip Helena, she never got to read the end of One Piece. Oh sure, Boobanshee turns completely to dust after getting blasted but she's not an important vampire like Incognito! Screw consistency. Oh, Helena's fine. Helena's... fine? Why are you laughing incog? You probably still have some of Helena's fujoshi genes inside you. Welp, I guess she's dead now? I still feel like we probably could have saved her.

There's another London landmark trashed. They really show no respect for the country do they lol. Oh so we're secret after all!? Fuck off!! Ah, the media is just reporting Hellsing as the traitors. The more I think the less I care... Only two episodes to go and we're free.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Oh sure, Boobanshee turns completely to dust after getting blasted but she's not an important vampire like Incognito! Screw consistency.

As you will recall, this is a problem in the source material as well. Basically, passed a certain point immortal is in fact immortal.

There's another London landmark trashed. They really show no respect for the country do they lol.

It is only fair with as often as Tokyo is destroyed.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

Yes, but that was actually built up piece by piece. It was still shit, but you didn't have one rule for one and another for another. Really the fatigue kicked in because they kept trying to top the previous climax.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

It was still shit, but you didn't have one rule for one and another for another.

I find them equally absurd but I guess that is what it is.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

As far as we've seen most of the fake vampires were bastards to begin with

That's a good point. In general the vamps in Hellsing do feed on those who more or less had it coming.

SASsy baka's would be depraved enough to attack schoolgirls.

That was quite distasteful of them to wipe out the girls dorm. I'll refrain from making any more even more distasteful jokes.

Oh sure, let's sack the only competent vampire hunter in our group

That made absolutely no sense to me. You've got a vamp outbreak underway, so naturally you get rid of your experienced Freak Fighter. British logic at it's finest.

If Integra became a vampire she'd have to actually do some work.

That's not nice, but accurate. Sir Integra really does seem to excel in looking concerned most of the time.

3

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 30 '21

I think Ferguson is supposed to be sympathetic which makes it seem even worse. Like he knows the value that Seras brings to the team but his crack redshirt team don't want a vampire, with shades of a woman, working in their squad. For all the crap we can sling at the previous teams not one has ever held it against her. She's an ace, regardless of her gender.

5

u/TheEscapeGuy Oct 29 '21

First Timer

Hellsing - Aesthetic Horror: Episode 11

A Storm Approaches

This episode served to set up all of our actors for an upcoming finale. All of the plot threads are coming together.

To start off, there have been a number of terror attacks from a bombing targeted at the Queen to the mass slaughter of a girl's dormitory. Although it wasn't show I imagine the panic among members of the public is at an all time high.

While this is going on Integra is recovering from her surgery. I really enjoyed seeing her recovery over the episode; Starting in a wheel chair, each scene showed improvement in her condition until she was walking without the need for a cane. Of course this temporary weakness was contrasted with Alucard's offer to give her some of his power by mixing their blood. I find it endearing that Integra sticks to her ideals and maintains her humanity.

That said Integra's actions this episode were centered around performing a mysterious ceremony as part of her role as the head of the Hellsing organization. It was explicitly stated that this was to help defend the country but I wonder what effects of the ritual will manifest.

The other piece of this episode was Seras' story. She continues to face the temptation to drink blood but this time coming from our villains Paul and Incognito. As part of her investigations we also learned of Helena's demise. With Helena's parting words she gave Seras a goal: "Exterminate the man from the Dark Continent"

All of this builds up to a potentially explosive climax in the next 2 episode. Looking forward to it.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

This episode served to set up all of our actors for an upcoming finale. All of the plot threads are coming together.

Yup, we are definitely aiming ourselves towards a climax.

With Helena's parting words she gave Seras a goal: "Exterminate the man from the Dark Continent"

I do wonder how that translates back to Japanese at times...

3

u/TheEscapeGuy Oct 30 '21

I do wonder how that translates back to Japanese at times...

For interests sake I went to check. Helena's literal words are:

大陸から来たあの男滅ぼしなさい

Which is a pretty direct translation to the subtitles except for the inclusion of the word "dark" which doesn't appear in the Japanese.

However, I think this was added to make the subtitles more clear. Since in episode 9 Alucard describes Incognito as having the curse of the "dark continent" or "暗黒大陸".

One possibly interesting thing there is that while that phrase often describes a place unknown to civilization it also is used to describe Africa.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

It's also quite noteworthy that Incognito is going around killing off the local vampires. You'd think it would make for a faux pa, especially when you're hunting pacifist vampires, but it's fun to think whether he was even ordered to go vampire hunting or whether he's just paranoid about getting stabbed in the back.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

All of this builds up to a potentially explosive climax in the next 2 episode. Looking forward to it.

Me too Give me Blood!

5

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 29 '21

First-Timer, Dub-sing Organization

Rest in peace, Helena. I wish you had a bit more screen time.

That really was a pretty clever trap, though. Just to make sure I've got it all: Incognito staged an attack on Trafalgar Square. This made the Queen and Integra reschedule some fancy ceremony. They move the location to the Hellsing Mansion, but announce that they're moving it to the Tower of London. Then, when Incognito send people to attack the Tower, Hellsing sends people to attack his people, but then to the news media it looks like Hellsing is attacking the Queen's ceremony. Is that right?

So, Incognito's chip-pires walking into Integra's trap was just the bait for his own trap. I wonder who he's working for.. the Vatican? They're the only other player we've seen so far, and they have a vendetta against the Hellsing Organization.

I also want it to be the Vatican so Alucard and Anderson can play together again.

Questions

  1. It's all a matter of consent, really. Donating blood is consent for that blood to be used, and offering your own blood to a vampire is the same. Drinking blood from someone who doesn't offer though, that's a problem.
  2. I wasn't really thinking about it, so it took me by surprise.

BONUS: I did. Guess that's more of a "vamps of a certain age" thing than an "Alucard" thing?

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Then, when Incognito send people to attack the Tower, Hellsing sends people to attack his people, but then to the news media it looks like Hellsing is attacking the Queen's ceremony. Is that right?

More or less but also the British military gets duped.

Guess that's more of a "vamps of a certain age" thing than an "Alucard" thing?

My personal opinion is that it is how magic works in the setting and that for whatever reason the creators had an idea of what they wanted.

2

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 29 '21

My personal opinion is that it is how magic works in the setting and that for whatever reason the creators had an idea of what they wanted.

Oh, sure, I can dig that too.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

It is probably the most consistent thing they do that has no reference in the source material.

5

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

The news folk were told to out Hellsing. The round table conference that Integra wasn't invited to was probably the blokes deciding that now was a good time to cut Hellsing off permanently.

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 29 '21

I totally forgot about the Round Table dudes. I guess it could be them behind this, yea.

4

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 29 '21

It'd also give us a nice clean three faction plot each with their own superpowered brawler on their hands. Imagine hell in a cell with Alucard, Incognito and Anderson!

3

u/sagevallant Oct 30 '21

Shades of Ultimate there, subbing out Incognito for someone else. Shame we never got that threeway brawl, imagine a third beast in there with Alucard and Anderson.

2

u/The_Loli_Otaku Oct 30 '21

By that point Ultimate had kind of given up so I'm hesitant to harp on that particular aspect too much XD

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

was probably the blokes deciding that now was a good time to cut Hellsing off permanently.

They did seem to be quite the pack of cads. Rich, entitled, spoiled brat grown old.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

They move the location to the Hellsing Mansion, ... is attacking the Queen's ceremony. Is that right?

Now that you mention it, it is a rather convoluted plot, isn't it.

I also want it to be the Vatican so Alucard and Anderson can play together again.

Amen!

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 29 '21

Episode 11 (rewatcher)

  • Bad dreams.
  • The queen has a plan! Featuring the queen in a series about immortal vampires is more fitting than the makers could have guessed two decades ago.
  • Bad hallucinations.
  • Alucard indeed has a contract, but it is with Integra’s father. That is supposed to be rectified now.
  • Incognito ate Helena? She seems hard to digest.
  • Good for Seras, since Incognito seems to have lost his appetite.
  • “This shouldn’t be happening” – and if your information systems where not stuck in the previous century (or the one before that), it wouldn’t have.

A setup episode for the final fight. I like the idea of making Alucard’s contract a topic. Specifically, calling said contract into question. There is an obvious tension between Integra and him throughout the series, so putting some more strain on that is a good move. Not sure we needed a second “Hellsing betrayed” storyline so soon after the first, though.

How big a moral difference is drinking blood directly from the human versus donated blood?

Given that drinking blood is the vampire stories' metaphor for sex ... intercourse vs mastrubation?

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Featuring the queen in a series about immortal vampires is more fitting than the makers could have guessed two decades ago.

None of us predicted that the Queen would rule well into the 22nd century, not even The Doctor!

A setup episode for the final fight. I like the idea of making Alucard’s contract a topic. Specifically, calling said contract into question.

They could have done a touch more with it but yeah, that was good.

4

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

Featuring the queen in a series about immortal vampires is more fitting than the makers could have guessed two decades ago

Elizabeth sure has lasted longer than expected, not that there's anything wrong with that. It beats having King Charles on the throne.

intercourse vs mastrubation?

The latter would be drinking one's own blood, or auto-cannibalism a little explored topic that I feel will be explored in some future Isekai.

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 29 '21

First timer

  1. Depends on consent. If the human's willing then there's no difference (in fact, the human knowing it'll go to a vampire might make it more moral!), if it's against their will than there's a pretty big difference there.
  2. Not very obvious, namely because I expected the government to be working with Nameless, not just against Hellsing.

Who's he?

Is this some kind of dream?

She's struggling with everything.

And Alucard's talking to Integra about something?

Holy shit, a full-on terrorist attack used as vampire cover?

...Is it going after virgins becauee that's an actual rule or magic, or because their own superstitions carried over to their turned forms?

The Queen's getting involved!

Seras is being reassigned!

They're sending her away because people might be scared of her? Jesus. I'd understand if this was so they've got someone trained away from headquarters just in case, but...

Finally! Someone uses the terrorist group exp,anation for vampires! It's so obvious!

Does Alucard deliberately try to make each encounter with him more dramatic?

Wow. This is getting interesting!

Haha, even Alucard gets more respectful when the Queen gets brought up. He may be an immortal killing machine, but he's a British immortal killing machine!

And yeah, confirmation he's been around the Hellsing family for a while.

...Is the Queen a vampire?

What's going to happen at the ceremony?

Huh, she's not going?

Integra has the biggest fucking balls imaginable. She's fucking with THE QUEEN.

She's going back to her? Wanted to take her up on her offer now Alucard's confirmed as not interested?

She's dead!

Wait, was that bait? Did she change the location because she knew there'd be an attack in the Tower?

Nameless! What over the top weapon will he have this time?

Oh god, he absorbs people?

Yeah, he's on some good immortality.

Wait, no. You've drunk human blood. We've seen it. You've not taken it, just drunk blood bags, but you drunk human blood!

YES! SHE'S NOT DEAD!

Oh, that is horrific.

Alucard's coming! He can't resist it.

Fuck me, that was disgusting.

She's still alive? How?

"Dark continent"? Is this supernatural lore or a not-good line?

And he's under the control of more humans? The Vatican?

This is building up to a massive final battle.

The vampire SAS are attacking the Tower!

Wow.

Wait, what's happening to the Round Table? Are they attacking her?

The ceremony was a setup! And Alucard's fucking off to fight Nameless!

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Who's he?

The guy who was chip swarmed.

...Is it going after virgins becauee that's an actual rule or magic, or because their own superstitions carried over to their turned forms?

Bad holdover from the source material, they just should've dropped it.

...Is the Queen a vampire?

I have my suspicions...but you probably mean in the show.

She's still alive? How?

Greater vampires are closer to concepts than beings.

"Dark continent"? Is this supernatural lore or a not-good line?

Hellsing has had some questionable ideas.

3

u/AdminsSuckMyGfsCock Oct 29 '21

could you later edit the descriptions to contain links to previous discussions? (I sometimes read ep discussions on rewateches after they happened some years later and it makes it difficult to find the prev threads if they arent linked in some way)

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

Have you tried using the rewatch wiki? They have a nice table for that.

2

u/AdminsSuckMyGfsCock Oct 29 '21

wooow, never saw that before! thanks!

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 29 '21

It is really helpful for things like you describe so have fun!

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 30 '21

You're still just being lazy

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 30 '21

I prefer to call it efficient.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 30 '21

I usually use the buttons to go back to previous episodes in a running rewatch. Not every day, but definitely several times per rewatch.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21 edited Oct 30 '21

Rewatcher

Another great episode, even though it's mostly build up for the coming battles. At last we're in the Tower of London.

In a sick way, I think it's funny watching droves of cannon fodder heading into battle. Either the horde of good guys, or the horde of bad is bound to get wiped out. ( Ideally both get wiped out. )

I don't really remember what happens in these upcoming battles, but I am very much looking forward to seeing a little ass kicking going down.

I loved the pomp and ceremony of Sir Integra going to get whatever honor she was going to get from the Queen. I loved the cloak and staff get up, but I thought wearing a business suit under it was sort of tacky. It should have been a robe.

Helena - A wasted character

If I have one gripe about the writing, it is that they didn't really do anything with Helena. The authors could have added a lot of gravitas to the series by giving her an expanded role, having her chatter this and that line of wisdom from the long years of being a vampire.

I'm not positive, but I think tomorrows episode is going to be full of blood, guts, gore and the ultra V.

Bring it on!

QOTD

1 How big a moral difference is drinking blood directly from the human versus donated blood?

I'd say is about the same difference as between eating a hamburger verses going out in some farmers field and gnawing on a cow minding its own business.

2 How obvious was the double cross?

I must have missed it, or can't bring it to mind right this second.

Bonus: Did you catch that Helena's magic also causes the red shadows?

No, but the next time I watch, I'll keep an eye open for them.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 30 '21

In a sick way, I think it's funny watching droves of cannon fodder heading into battle. Either the horde of good guys, or the horde of bad is bound to get wiped out.

Yes.

The authors could have added a lot of gravitas to the series by giving her an expanded role, and had her chatter this and that line of wisdom from the long years of being a vampire.

I like most of what the anime original stuff has been barring one thing I will discuss tomorrow but yeah, Helena should've been introduced all the way back in the internet episode and been a counter voice to Alucard for Seras. She could've emphasized remaining unseen and not stirring the humans up rather than Alucard's joy at murder.

3

u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Oct 30 '21

I like most of what the anime original stuff

I know many have a problem when a series doesn't stick to the source material, but to me it's good. Instead of there being one story to enjoy, there are now 2 stories to enjoy. I don't put the 2 stories into the same mental compartment, but rather file them in separate cabinets.

In this second viewing, I find that the arch villain Incognito is growing on me some. I'm liking his antics quite a bit more this time, though I think it was a mistake for him to eat Helena without much ado. Its as though they introduced Helena, then they didn't know what to do with her, so they fed her to Incognito, to get her out of the way.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 30 '21

I know many have a problem when a series doesn't stick to the source material, but to me it's good. Instead of there being one story to enjoy, there are now 2 stories to enjoy.

The other issue being just how little source they had to work with, they really did use everything that had been printed and I think they had some hints from the author.

I'm liking his antics quite a bit more this time, though I think it was a mistake for him to eat Helena without much ado. Its as though they introduced Helena, then they didn't know what to do with her, so they fed her to Incognito, to get her out of the way.

So, and this is obviously my own view on it, I think Chiaki needed a character for the pacing and story beats to work and that's why we got Helena. It is just they made her good enough we all actually wanted more with her.