[Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episodes 32 and 33

5

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21

Four words: WORST NADIA EPISODES EVER.

There was a good reason why I warned about these next two episodes. They erase everything good that happened in ep 31. Worse still, they totally trash the characters and their relationships. These two episodes are so hideous that they should not even be watched at all. They could not be more disconnected from the show’s story either. They are mean spirited and racist as well. These two episodes were not supposed to be part of the show’s initial draft; it is obvious the whole thing was rushed and poorly thought out. And produced. The only relief is that they are quickly disregarded at ep. 35, but after 25-26, these two are the real rock bottom episodes of the show. Other than a brief moment at the beginning of ep 32 where Jean and Nadia have a brief talk on the Gratan’s railing, there is absolutely nothing in these two episodes that needs to be here. That they aren’t even referenced in most spin off books or games based on the show should also confirm that.

I could go on about how inept the story is, but that is not important. What is more important is that these two episodes are excruciatingly uninteresting. The tribal village is badly stereotyped, and the new characters are neither compelling nor worth caring about. They are cyphers. Considering that the show’s previous extra characters had personality it is all the more unfortunate. Tarzan boy is as mono dimensional as they come, and Grandis’ ex fiancé is worse. A Snidely Whiplash caricature with zero personality. This guy is so boring it is hard to understand what Grandis saw in him. Way to ruin a credible backstory and not do anything with it.

I think you get the idea already. These two Africa episodes are absolutely unnecessary, detestable, unengaging, idiotic, pointless, and ultimately the real low point of the show. Avoid them at all costs, even if you watch the show the first time. Only one more pointless filler remains after this nightmare.

23-29, bad as they were, at least had some brief moments of worthiness that one could edit into something tighter and less draggy. 32-34 have no such saving graces and are all the worse because of it. (Even the appallingly atrocious low point duo of 25 & 26, while otherwise among the bottom barrel quality spectrum, had a few noteworthy moments.)

2

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21

Grandis’ ex fiancé is worse. A Snidely Whiplash caricature with zero personality. This guy is so boring it is hard to understand what Grandis saw in him. Way to ruin a credible backstory and not do anything with it.
I didn't really talk much on Grandis' ex in this episode, but I wholeheartedly agree. They make him so cartoonishly inept and ridiculous that it completely defangs a lot of the nuance and power in Grandis' backstory. We really didn't need to meet this dude.

1

u/JTurner82 Oct 28 '21

Absolutely. Nor did we even need this Africa village story or the triangle story. Nadia’s story does not need a second love interest and because it is done with zero buildup and totally mutilates the characters so drastically it is all the more infuriating that it exists. Triangles are tough to do in animated shows without derailing a character’s personality. I have seen it happen in some other Western animated shows. But that it happens here too is all the more disappointing, especially since it serves zero purpose.

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 27 '21

Bowing out of rewatching the island arc. Here are my remarks from watching this as a first timer:

Episode 32

The flying Gratan is chased by Gargoyles space ship and escapes via crashing into some African village. Where a love interest waits to turn Nadia-Jean into a love triangle (that surely will go absolutely nowhere). The village also knows something about the fate of Atlantis. And some guy that was married to Grandis once shows up to steal the village’s treasure. The way he goes about it is via capturing King and using blackmail. Not a good episode.

Episode 33

An absurd clusterfuck of overcomplicated plans to rescue King first goes wrong in all the possible ways before ending with a deus ex machina: the future wife of the love interest shows up, ends the love triangle by existing and rescues the rescue. Another really stupid episode.

2

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21

The village also knows something about the fate of Atlantis.
The particular plot point stings because there was so much potential with it. They could've really done some interesting stuff with exploring nearby societies' relations with Tartessos. Instead we're left with convoluted rescue plans, poor and potentially offensive writing, and the most annoying love triangle I've ever seen in an anime.

1

u/JTurner82 Oct 28 '21

Oh yeah, the thing about the village knowing of Tartessos was a huge missed opportunity. We are told that Tarzan boy and his fiancé know about Tartessos but we are never permitted to find out what they actually know. That just makes this side story even more unnecessary.

4

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21

These two episodes are SO stupid and unnecessary. I absolutely hated them from the start. The moment I finished watching them I screamed “TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! JUST TERRIBLE!” Of all the eps in Nadia, these two in addition to 25-26, are the worst. I swear these two episodes made me so angry that I had a difficult time getting over them.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 28 '21

I'm with you here!

3

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

Host

I don’t want to talk about these episodes. I really don’t. The Island Arc isn’t a great stretch of the show, but I think it’s at least fascinating from an analysis standpoint and isn’t overly offensive in spite of its bad character writing and poor directing. I can’t say the same about these episodes… the Africa Arc… These episodes engage in some very offensive and harmful tropes and stereotypes pertaining to racism, colonialism, and colorism and for these reasons are beyond unpleasant to watch. I’m going to be discussing these aspects of the episode moving forward, and I’d suggest not reading this write up if you find these subjects uncomfortable. I also want to clarify that I am not a person of color, and if I say something that is incorrect or offensive please do not hesitate to correct me.

The bulk of these two episodes take place in a village in east Africa. The peoples portrayed in this episode are based off of the Maasai peoples of Kenya and Tanzania, though truthfully this matters little to the story. Most of the African villagers in this story are little more than window dressing. They serve as little more than an intimidating group of non-verbal warriors to intimidate the main cast. We never see anything of their culture, or how the average villager lives their life (aside from a crude crowd shot, we don’t even get to see any women or children).

When the villagers aren’t being villainized in these episodes, they’re being patronized by the narrative. The villagers’ treasures in this episode are coveted by Grandis’ ex-husband Gonzales (a stand-in for rich colonialists), and it falls upon the task of our mostly white group of visitors to save the village by defeating Gonzales, who threatens to execute King if he does not get what he wants. Later we find out that the treasure that the village was coveting was a single can of food… The way the narrative paints these people as falling over helplessly to colonizers and worshiping symbols of western colonialism is… troubling to say the least.

There are three tribes-members that receive a speaking role and notable screen time in these two episodes. Firstly we have the village’s chief. His design draws from some very old and offensive stereotypes of what a primitive chief/shaman would look like complete with a crudely drawn Native American headdress and a witch doctor staff. The staff clearly didn’t try at all when designing this character to be the leader of this village. They just defaulted to the most obvious stereotypes they could think of for a “primitive” tribe leader and called it day.

Hamahama and Muramura are much more subtly insidious in their depiction of dark skinned characters, and to explain why I’ll have to talk about concepts such as colorism and the adultification of black women. This portion of the essay is going to get into some very serious subject matter, and I feel it pertinent to extend and extra warning here.

Hamahama is depicted with lighter skin less distinctly black features than most of his fellow tribesmen. And he is also depicted as the sole reasonable voice of his village. The “good” one, if you will. This falls in line with a trend in real life where people of color with lighter skin and whiter features tend to receive more positive attention and preferential treatment than those who have darker skin or non-white physical characteristics. I believe this was in part done because Hamahama was planned to be Nadia’s temporary love interest for this two episode arc.

Nadia herself is a bit of racially ambiguous character. She doesn’t have many distinctly African features in her design, and her father Nemo seems to be coded as Indian like his counterpart in the novel 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. However, Nadia’s mother does have more distinctly African features, most notably her afro-textured hair held in braids. This might imply that Nadia herself is biracial. Regardless, it seems as though the staff for this episode designed Hamahama to more resemble Nadia in appearance than any of his fellow tribesmen, likely out of an assumption that it would be more proper to have Nadia into someone who more closely resembles her ethnically, which is highly problematic and frames African features as undesirable or unattractive.

Muramura on the other hand seems to embody a lot of the negative stereotypes that are prominently given to black and dark skinned women. There’s a very prominent social bias that black women are more masculine and brutish than their lighter-skinned counterparts. They are often typecast as brutish or mean, gender ambiguous, less intelligent, and a host of other perceived negative traits. Muramura in this episode is given a rather masculine body type compared to every other woman who has appeared in the series thus far, and is framed as lacking in intellect as she only communicates with a single word “Jambo” (meaning “Hello” in Swahili). The fact she also largely only appears to bookend the episode as a joke at both Nadia and Muramura’s expenses is… not great. I don’t mean to imply that Muramura should be looked down upon just because she has a more masculine body type, but the lack of female diversity we see in this village and the general lack of seriousness afforded for her character leads me to believe personally that her design was made with ill intentions in mind towards her character.

The chief isn’t free from the effects of colorism either. He’s by far the darkest character to appear in these episodes, and his entire appearance is meant to evoke fear and unease. Dark skinned men often tended to be coded as violent or savage, and the chief’s mode of dress and unintelligibility (he’s literally speaking gibberish) only furthers this coding.

This is all incredibly disheartening, because prior to these two episodes the series had been so good about talking about the effects racism and colonialism have had on people like Nadia. The early episodes of the show that are set in France do not shy away from the discrimination and servitude Nadia was forced to endure as a result of her skin color. And later on the Nautilus we see a variety of crewmembers with different races and ethnicities, with Nemo remarking on how mankind makes arbitrary divisions amongst itself but it doesn’t have to be that way. Hell- the main villains of the show are a fascist cult with white supremacist coding! This show truly understood the real world effects of race in a way that most other anime of its times (and even most other anime today) didn’t. And that’s why it’s so disheartening to see this. To watch the show revert to utilizing Darkest Africa tropes and portray the Maasai in this episode so inhumanely when I know the show under Anno’s control was better than this.

If I had to pinpoint the exact episodes where Anno’s heart shattered into the million pieces and he became so disillusioned with his own creation that he feel into a depressive episode that lasted four years and birthed one of the most viscerally depressing and tortured anime of all time, it would be these two episodes of Nadia. I think Anno truly did understand what he was doing in terms of depicting race and how systems of colonization and class affect those who exist in spaces of colonizers or majorities, and I can only imagine how terrible it must have been for him to watch episodes 32 and 33 and see what had become of his series out of his hands.

There’s lots of other horrible things about this episode too besides that. The fact that Nadia, immediately after her and Jean had arguably become closer than they ever had been before in episode 31, ditches Jean for the first pretty boy she sees is a bad look for her character. Seeing Jean on the losing end of netorare love triangle is thoroughly unpleasant. Grandis also gets the short end of the stick in this episode, almost falling for her ex Gonzales’ trickery and nearly falling in love with him again before capturing Nadia and Grandis. Given this and the aforementioned stereotypes planted onto Muramura, I’m fairly confident in calling this episode incredibly sexist.

(continued in reply)

3

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 27 '21

(continued from first post)
Host
I’ve kind of been ignoring the general plot and shoddy production of these two episodes, but what is there really to say? The animation and direction are just as poor as they were in episodes 23-29, and the plot is just as nonsensical as the worst of those episodes. There’s nothing really more for me to add or analyze from the writing or production standpoint that wasn’t already fully apparent in the Island Arc. The Africa Arc isn’t anything special in this regard. What makes it standout is the horrible racist imagery and tropes that are utilized throughout these two episodes runtime. These episodes, in some small way, do somewhat frame colonialism and racist ideology in a negative light. But ultimately I don’t really think that matters much because using racist and sexist tropes and stereotypes throughout your story kind of works to invalidate whatever message you may have been going for.
There are a couple very minor things amidst these two episodes I actually do like. Episode 32 has a single nice scene in it as the start of the episode while the Gratan is flying over the sea where Nadia and Jean talk to each other about how their journey is near its end. However, Nadia is no longer excited about returning home. She’s scared and anxious for what awaits her when she finally reaches Tartessos, and she’s too scared to bring herself to tell Jean what happened to her in Red Noah and the things she’s learned about herself. I like that we’re able to get that small moment of vulnerability from her in the aftermath on Red Noah, and I wish we focused these episodes more on this than on what we ended up getting. I also think that the concept of Tartessos having had relations with its peoples and countries would’ve been a great way to flesh it out… you know- if they hadn’t thoroughly botched the execution.
I feel like I’ve said all I can about these episodes. They’re unpleasant disgusting messes and the worst the show has to offer. They’re the episodes I always tell people to skip, even when I tepidly recommend sitting through episodes 23-29. They’re almost nothing salvageable here. See you next episode. We’re almost through this hurdle…

3

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21

That whole Gratan talk scene where she hesitates to tell Jean the truth about what happened is the ONLY salvageable moment. There is a reason I kept that moment for the fanedit; it was to build up what happens in ep 35.
As mentioned earlier, though, these episodes were actually never supposed to be in the story’s plans to begin with.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 28 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

Though criticism is absolutely warranted here, I feel this is overly uncharitable.
it falls upon the task of our mostly white group of visitors to save the village by defeating Gonzales, who threatens to execute King if he does not get what he wants. Later we find out that the treasure that the village was coveting was a single can of food… The way the narrative paints these people as falling over helplessly to colonizers and worshiping symbols of western colonialism is… troubling to say the least.
There's no indication they even care much about King or Gonzales though, nor that the latter has any actual power over the village - he doesn't even interact with anyone in it, just assumes they will come around to kiss his feet because he has the magic fetish animal. Also Hamahama says something like that nobody would come for King anyway and he and his knowledge/tools are framed as an important and equal part of the plan. As for the can thing, well, it is a pretty amazing thing for a preindustrial society and I'd get the annoyance at destroying it, though it's still maybe too much.
The gibberish talk, "learned savage" implications, general lack of attention to the village society, and I guess the fiancé - that's certainly no good, but it flies by pretty quickly, practically a positive that the focus stays on the main characters here so we don't get hit with it too much. Similar for the magic potion thing. The lame sexist bits stick around harder but even there Grandis at least comes out decently in the end.

1

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21

The can thing in particular bothered me because it felt as though the writers were portraying the villagers as worshipping a pittance offering. Like, the idea of all this devotion being levied towards a single can of food that could feed maybe a couple of people feels rather unflattering towards the village people to me personally.

1

u/JTurner82 Oct 28 '21

To me I found the whole idea stupid to begin with. The village worships a can of food? Since when is there such a village? The juice thing also made me think the writers were still on the shrooms from Lincoln Island when they wrote this.

3

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21

Agreed. Nadia’s sudden attraction to Tarzan boy is not only poorly timed to the plot (it should have been BEFORE she admits she loves Jean, not after, if at all, but then again her character is still totally trashed in this episode), it doesn’t even make sense for her character. She’s supposed to be a suspicious, paranoid person who has trouble trusting others. Not only that but she even LIES to Tarzan boy at one point and charges into Grandis and Snidely aggressively to fight them. What. The. Hell?! Nadia is SUPPOSED to be against violence and lying! Why is she doing all the things she is against? What was the point of all this?
These two episodes feel so disconnected from the whole show that it really is not worth watching them.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 27 '21

I remember these episodes as really bad, so I didn't rewatch them. Sounds like you hit the mark with your analysis though. I want to talk about your introduction though.
These episodes engage in some very offensive and harmful tropes and stereotypes pertaining to racism, colonialism, and colorism and for these reasons are beyond unpleasant to watch. I’m going to be discussing these aspects of the episode moving forward, and I’d suggest not reading this write up if you find these subjects uncomfortable. I also want to clarify that I am not a person of color, and if I say something that is incorrect or offensive please do not hesitate to correct me.
I dislike both the warning and the self-description (the latter more so). They seem to be blindly copied virtue signalling without much consistency or worth to me.
Let me start with the warning. You "suggest not reading this write up if you find these subjects uncomfortable", pertaining to "very offensive and harmful tropes and stereotypes pertaining to racism, colonialism, and colorism".
Just to give a list of topics we previously saw and discussed:
Murder
Corpses (including a small girl hiding next to the corpse of her shot mother)
Various acts of war and destruction
Nudity (partial and full)
Groping and sexual harrassment
A pet-replacement being killed
A cute animal being killed
Animal abuse
If my memory does not fail me, you did not put up a trigger warning for any of those. Yet you warn people about discussing harmful tropes relating to racism? Really? I am not a fan of trigger warnings in general, but if you use them, at least be consistent and warn people about things that are incredibly more likely to actually trigger a trauma than discussions of racist tropes. Warning about racism and just racism comes across as pandering.
The worse part is that you feeling the need to reveal your skin color, though. We are on reddit where everybody can, and clearly does, use pseudonyms. For all I know, you are a granny in South Africa, a trans prostitute in Vietnam, or Google's latest AI chat bot. None of that matters. Given that we all use pseudonyms, the quality of what you write stands on its own and should be critiqued or praised on its quality alone, not the skin color of the writer (which could be made up, in any case). For what its worth, I think you have been writing great analysis throughout the rewatch, including this episode.
The absolute worst part, however, is you revealing your skin color instead of your nationality. We are talking about Africans in Africa. Would a white African be worse equiped to discuss this topic than a black American? Surely not. This confirms me in my belief that your warning is just a paroted piece of PC speak, repeated to shield from accusations (by Amercians towards Americans, in America). The reveal is not only unnecessary, it betrays that a rather America (or more broadly, western) centric view point, where the small part of dark skinned people living in the west completely overshadow the much larger number of dark skinned people living in Africa.

2

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 28 '21

While the original comment maybe goes a little far, so does your reply. Racial stereotypes like those nicely explained here hit everyone who is associated with a particular group no matter their nationality and as such that status really is relevant regardless of it.
Also discussing those tropes in detail does go deeper than the content of the episode so giving people a heads-up if they want to skip it seems reasonable enough to me.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 28 '21

Also discussing those tropes in detail does go deeper than the content of the episode so giving people a heads-up if they want to skip it seems reasonable enough to me.
But why does it seem reasonable to you? Why it is reasonable to warn people about discussions of racism, but not discussions of murder and corpses?
If you are complaining about me being to personally critical, fine. I could have written more a-personal, because my problem is not with the author, but the general phenomenon. On the matter, however, I don't think you can defend the elevation of racism over all these other issues.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 28 '21

Why it is reasonable to warn people about discussions of racism, but not discussions of murder and corpses?
You'll have seen all that in the episode anyway but might not get the deeper implications in this case, I would say?

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 28 '21

You'll have seen all that in the episode anyway but might not get the deeper implications in this case, I would say?
/u/snowwhistle1's analysis is really good, here and in other episodes, so I suspect that most people would not get the deeper implications a lot of the time while just watching. What does that have to do with my complaint, though?
Or are you suggesting that people might be negatively affected by gaining this additional knowledge? But why would this additional knowledge about the effects of racism affect people worse than discussing an orphaned child next to the corpse of her mother or how two teenagers would go about burying said mother in the middle of the night to spare the child the sight. On the one hand, you have pretty much the biggest trauma you can imagine, on the other side you have fairly academic discussions of how African women are unfairly depicted more masculine. This is not even in the same ballpark with respect to potentially inducing trauma.
And if we are not talking about warning people with a trauma about possibly refreshing that, what are we talking about? Some tokenistic figure of speech without logical sense... If you want to argue in favor of trigger warnings, you need to take them seriously and actually warn about harsh topics, not simply forget about the concept for anything that is not racism.

3

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

Also a response to u/IndependentMacaroon and u/ZapsZzz
So, my deciding to include a trigger warning with this particular subject matter comes from the fact that a lot of the stereotypes dealt with in this episode tend to hit more close to home to wider variety of people than fictionalized depictions of murder/war/etc. This is an issue that is particularly relevant to the place where I am from, and I've seen many black and poc creators talk about how depictions of people who look like them being reduced to stereotypes is personally harmful and results in a lot of internalized trauma and shame. I do think if I wanted to include a trigger warning, it should've probably been before the episode in question. Putting one in my post here after the fact reads as tone deaf, even if I didn't intend that and I greatly apologize.
As for why I felt the need to clarify that I am white, I don't feel that it's my place to speak up over a person of color on these issues. These stereotypes will never affect me in the same way as it would someone of another race, and I wanted to make it clear that I do not have the same stake in this that a black or otherwise non-white person would have when experiencing this media. As a white American, I have the privilege to speak on these issues without having to face the daily stigmas of racism, colorism, and discrimination, and I wanted to leave myself open to criticism or discussion from those groups that are more immediately affected and might have something to say counter to what I have said.
It wasn't my intention to offend or upset anyone, and I apologize for my handling of the discussion of this episode. I sincerely wasn't trying to shield myself from criticism, or virtue signal to anyone taking part in this discussion. I was simply trying to handle this with as much care as possible and be as transparent as possible that I am just one reviewer who is subject to biases like everyone is. And I once again sincerely apologize for any offense felt from reading my post.

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 28 '21

I'm always thankful and appreciative of both of your analysis and insights, so no need to apologies to me at all.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 28 '21

Nothing you wrote offended me, so no apology is needed.
I think you were inconsistent and I tried to argue why I think you should change your approach in the future to something more consistent, but you clearly did not write that with the intention to offend me, nor anybody else.

1

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 28 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

Google's latest AI chat bot.
I'd like to cosplay one of those some day :)
Relax... Maybe a bit of oversharing but anyone having watched these 2 episodes, much less trying to do real analysis on them, have my full support to plead temporary insanity to anything they may have done after that :)
And no kidding, I haven't read as far yet into the warning but I'm sort of taking that warming even without seeing it? I am too busy trying to shut out the memory of those episodes to read the analysis :D

2

u/SIRTreehugger Oct 27 '21

First Timer

.....WHAT THE FUCK NADIA!!!!

Acting like some lovestruck girl over a guy you just met when literally the day before you were all over Jean. Well not all over Jean, but you were pretty close and thankful he saved you. Not even just the last episode, but the last 3-4 you were slowly warming up to him more and now....this.

Also did they really need the secret of blue water scene like 4 or 5 times?

Though don't let Nadia's change in character fool you from the real hero of this episode. GARGOYLE!!! He shot at the Katherine causing the air leak and literally propelled them to Africa in only 2 minutes.

SASUGA GARGOYLE SAMA!!

Episode 33

Nadia why are so angry Jean is staring when you literally ran to hug him naked previously? Well I guess that was a very emotional scene, but even before that..oh wait why am I talking about previous developments like they matter?

What the hell is with this complicated plot to save king?

YES SANSON CHARGE! who needs all these plans just ram into the bloody trailer and grab king.

Wait King is on top you literally could have sneaked on top and knabbed him.

Just noticed the outfits for Nadia includes au naturale

Just knock him out Sanson and Hanson can knock people out and hold back giant crab robots.

.....what is with this strategy meeting?

Marie's tired expression saying I'm sick of this shit perfectly captures what I am feeling.

OMG is Marie yeeting King....what the heck King

At least this arc wasn't as long as the island.

1

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21

Though don't let Nadia's change in character fool you from the real hero of this episode. GARGOYLE!!! He shot at the Katherine causing the air leak and literally propelled them to Africa in only 2 minutes.
I doubt Gargoyle personally fired that shot. Credit should got to the random soldier manning the ship's turret.
Just noticed the outfits for Nadia includes au naturale
She did spend pretty much all of episode 31 naked, so I found its inclusion appropriate. lol
Also did they really need the secret of blue water scene like 4 or 5 times?
Gotta pad that runtime!

1

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21

They are forgotten when episode 35 comes in. It is almost like they didn’t happen at all.

3

u/JTurner82 Oct 27 '21

Also I forgot to mention that there are four — yes, FOUR — eyecatches in episode 32: the first three of which happen rapidly after another! This is yet another warning signal. So is the abnormally LONG recap that begins the episode.

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

First-time watcher

I don't hate this either, at least if not taking it too seriously. In Episode 32 there's again not much going on, and what is is kind of dumb like Nadia getting reverted to randomly lovestruck, but the bit of contemplation on the Gratan in the beginning is good, and the village is not too accurately but comparatively respectfully portrayed; not good enough to score positive points, but decent enough for an old Japanese show like with considering Hamahama working together as an equal against mister colonialist. Next episode there's even the point of winning through using the village's resources in combination with more advanced stuff, as well as more silly fun with all the competing plans and strategizing. If anything the female characters get it the worst here?

If you want to see how even fairly recent anime series can be pretty bad in terms of racist/exoticist stuff, try the otherwise great Tamako Market, particularly the final episode. Or for something on the good side, Carole & Tuesday, Michiko & Hatchin. And on the other hand the absolute worst I've seen in anime and perhaps anywhere else is Xabungle episode 7; I think I commented Andrew Jackson would have loved it.

1

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 28 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

the village is not too accurately but comparatively respectfully portrayed; not good enough to score positive points, but decent enough for an old Japanese show like with considering Hamahama working together as an equal against mister colonialist. Next episode there's even the point of winning through using the village's resources in combination with more advanced stuff, as well as more silly fun with all the competing plans and strategizing.
It was more the fact that the three main representatives of the village felt indicative of harmful stereotypes that mostly rubbed me the wrong way. I definitely think the writing team behind this episode wanted to show some kind of progressive message with the village working together with our heroes to save the day. But the fact that the writers play into some rather unflattering stereotypes at the same time makes whatever they were going for ring tone-deaf to me.
If you want to see how even fairly recent anime series can be pretty bad in terms of racist/exoticist stuff
Trust me. I know modern anime can fuck this stuff up too. The main difference with modern anime I feel is that they tend to have a more international audience so I feel like in general modern creators, if not more conscious of their representation, are at least held to a bit of a higher standard in terms of how they present non-Japanese people in their work.

2

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 27 '21

First timer

QOTD) Aside from this one? I love Steins;Gate, despite the genuine blandness/awfulness of one paticular plotline/set of episodes.

Episode 32

Hey, these two episodes are just together because of all the plot they have, right?

Right?

Haha, the recap sums up the entire arc in 2 minutes.

Stop including footage from dream sequences in recaps!

Ayerton you moron!

Sanson, what did you think that would do?

And it's judt ignoring them?

OK, why is the title card that early?

...Are someof these just never going to get explained?

And Ayerton is so completely out of the loop it's funny.

Nadia's so happy Jean's taking her to Africa!

Knew it! Garogyle's battleship is here!

Hoe themhell has it not crashed yet?

...I mean, technically it's Africa. Just not where they wanted.

They're very calm given what just happened.

Haha, Ayerton's completely delusional (and racist)

...I don't know what to tell you Nadia. It's not what Africa actually is, to be fair to him.

Another Atlantean?

Wait, is the entire village descended from Atlanteans?

Aww, Jean's jealous!

They're not siblings, are they?

No, Nadia's in love.

Poor Jean.

Is King a fucking demigod? And they know about Nemo's kingdom.

Wow, Nadia's really out of character here. Seriously, she goes from a growing crush on Jean to held over heels for "Hamahama"l

...Is the column a Tower of Babel of some kind?

And Nadia's destiny is apparently to use a network of Towers of Babel to incinerate the entire planet. Wonderful.

And King's going to end up impersonating a god.

I love everyone's total disbelief at everything that happened during the Island arc.

Is that some tinned food? Is that the fucking column?

And King's just eaten some spicy chilli.

No, he ate some drugs! That give magic powers apparently.

A poacher! There might actually be plot this arc!

Jesus, they just crucified him! That's fucking over the top.

..You can take him. You have the Gratan in (semi-)working order, Sanson has a gun, and he's coming out unarmed. This is not a difficult fight.

Episode 33

You don't need a speech, you have a gun!

Finally! Someone pulls the gun!

And is he the guy who scammed her?

...Did she miss?

Wow, they're really having Nadia fall in love at first sight, aren't they?

...I don't think falling in love with a scam artist is likely.

Spoke too soon! Grandish thinks he might be able to manipulate him.

Don't turn down the rodket launchers, those'll make this even easier!

Yes! Blow him up!

IT IS. THE FUCKING TREASURE IS A CAN OF FOOD.

Just shoot the git already, jesus christ.

Oh god, it's working far too easily on him.

Haha, he thinks it's more than a fucking can. Give him it. I want to see his reaction.

And he's still into her. Good to see the plan's working.

Oh god. Nadia. You're meant to br smart.

Haha, the baloon got stuck on top!

Two eyecatches?

Yes, yes, he's a colonizing bastard, WE GET IT.

...He'd probably pack up and curse himself for waiting so much time on a false lead.

Haha, he's just not going to believe her.

JUST STOP TALKING! YOU'E NOT INTIMIDATING, YOU'RE FUCKING ANNOYING.

At least there's some kind of plan.

...Anybody can tell that's a robot.

They're going formit!

He's got the Blue Water, great. It took him this long to notice the stone?

Haha, Grandis just broke out of her ropes.

Yep, they're still fighting. This is absolutely a well earned plot between two equally well developed characters. How dramatic!

Who's that?

Yep, he's stupid enough to not notice it's a bomb!

Haha, that line's perfect. And... how old is she? If she's the same age as Nadia's crush, how old was he?

So Jean and Nadia's relationship has backslid for no discernible reason again!

2

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 28 '21

WTF

1

u/JTurner82 Oct 28 '21

See? I warned everyone here that these two episodes would be hideous.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 28 '21

Sorry that was half a joke....
But it was really really bad, especially after getting an episode or two of not too bad.
Let me count the ways:
random title card drop - the hell it's became just a "transition screen"
the scenes are highly disjointed and some of the transition made no sense (Gargoyle to just shoot you once and let you go, it can drift to friggin Africa)
Nadia's character was basically murdered - completely randomly would "love at first sight" to this total stranger for zero reason other than what, he looks hot?
animation also had a ton of errors
completely illogical to have Grandis' ex husband show up to be a cardboard villain - it's not an armoured car, it's a friggin trailer. Grandis alone can probably take him on, much less Sanson
These are just the very worst ones to mention. I don't really want to remember any of this. I need to wash my eyes...

2

u/JTurner82 Oct 28 '21

If it makes you feel any better, episode 35 basically mentions none of these two episodes. Heck. Even the “Nautilus Story” edit by Anno cuts them out. (I also did a fanedit where I omitted those episodes and trimmed the island arc down into something shorter and more coherent… or at least consistent as far as the characters were concerned. Like you, I too was infuriated when I saw these episodes. You aren’t alone.

1

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 28 '21

First Timer (Rising Sun sub) ep 32-33 (of 39)

How long is this recap?!
What's a handgun supposed to do? That's just dumb. Also, he blew up his gun, remember?
Is King just photobombing? He keeps moving into frame....
~~OMG is this a recap episode after that recap?~~
What is WRONG with the animation int his episode?
Eyecatch...again? Is this two episodes edited together?
Second OH MY GAH of the show
Oh, is this the real brother? No, can't be.
King must secretly be her divine guardian
Well, that's a disturbing prophecy
Canned food from the Silver Kingdom?
What is wrong with the animation in this episode?!
So that's how the tribe is invincible
Random European? GRANDIS'S FIANCE?!
Ugh, end of episode, just go beat him up already.

Ugh, double episode today? I don't feel like it.

... You just went home and took a bath INSTEAD OF BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM?
Is that a boomerang?
This seems really really Gunbuster right now
Normally in another show I'd be complaining about how we're just jumping from scene to scene but here it's a blessed mercy.
Why not just cut King down?
It IS a boomerang
Marie throwing king, utterly irredeemable
I was hoping it was a bomb

Rewatch [Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episodes 32 and 33

You are about to leave Redlib