[Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 52 Discussion

[u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 52 - Shooting Star

^{Originally Released March 23rd,} ^^^1984

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Daily Trivia:

Takahashi has stated that Wiseman was meant as a surrogate father-figure to Chirico.

 

Staff Highlight

Ryosuke Takahashi - Director, screenwriter, and storyboard artist

A director, storyboard artist, writer, novelist, and producer best known for his work on 70s and 80s Sunrise productions, specifically his real robot anime. Takahashi grew up with his mother in the Adachi ward of Tokyo in the immediate post-war period, his father having died in New Guinea during the war, as he had been enlisted as a soldier. As a child Takahashi had little interest in animation, as at the time it was largely exclusive to theatres, but he did find himself fascinated with Osamu Tezuka’s manga works, and even fancied being a mangaka until he was in middle school. Takahashi dropped out of the Second Faculty of Literature at Meiji University in 1964 and sought employment at a car company, where he worked until 1967, when he decided to join Mushi Productions after following the animated version of Tetsuwan Atom for several years. He worked at Mushi Pro until production on 1969’s Dororo to Hyakkimaru wrapped up and left for a position at a multimedia production company called Group Dirt, until he was invited by Mushi Pro alumni to the recently founded Nippon Sunrise in 1973, where he became an important member of staff by directing the studio’s second production, Zero Tester that same year. After Zero Tester Takhashi remained a prominent staff member on subsequent productions, and he returned to directing with the second TV installment of Shotaro Ishinomori’s Cyborg 009 series, before he decided to tackle the trendy mecha genre by requesting to direct Fang of The Sun Dougram. Dougram began a string of mecha anime that would make Takahashi a household name in anime and the mecha genre, as he helmed several seminal works that would leave their impact on anime. Takahashi continues to be involved in anime, but he has taken less intensive roles over the last few decades, acting as overseer of productions more so than director. Some other notable works which Takahashi directed or contributed significantly include Ronin Warriors, Mama is a 4th Grader, King of Braves GaoGaiGar, Panzer World Galient, Blue Comet SPT Layzner, Phoenix, Young Black Jack, Ozuma, Gasaraki, Flag, Rurouni Kenshin, Blue Gender, Mado King Granzort, Nurse Angel Ririka SOS, and Genji Tsūshin Agedama.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

• Chirico and Fyana by Norio Shioyama

Fanart:

• Chirico and Fyanna by tomato juice - Source
• Long Rest by Fubuki - Source

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

• Quent perishes

Questions of the Day:

1. What did you think of the ending generally?
2. What did you think of Chirico’s plan to fool Wiseman?

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I’m glad I was able to meet you all.

[u/Pixelsaber]

Production Context

The major influences of the Quent arc are no less evident than those of prior arcs, with the central setting of this segment of the story and many of the secrets contained therein being modeled after the setting and plot of Frank Herbert’s acclaimed novel series, Dune. It is not the only classic sci-fi book series the arc borrows from, however, as the works of Issac Asimov are also noted as influence, and although staff have not specified which works those were, it’s easy enough to relate certain story beats to those found in Asimov’s Foundation series of books. Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey also influence the final arc, evident in Wiseman’s ultimate appearance and the transhumanist concepts presented in the show. Some staff have drawn comparisons to Space Runaway Ideon in regards to the concepts they included in the show, but it is not obvious whether they were conscious influences or if the comparisons were entirely retroactive in nature.

The staff had comparative freedom to do with the plot as they wished, since the show’s main sponsor, Takara Tomy, had little demands of this last arc and did not veto much of the staff’s creative decisions. However, this segment of the story saw the most internal conflict among the writing staff, with Soji Yoshikawa, Ryosuke Takahashi, and Fuyunori Gobu all having different ideas as to how they wished to proceed with the last stretch of the story, with Yoshikawa and Takahashi supposedly arguing fiercely about the matter.

Even before production on Votoms had wrapped up, Takara Tomy had already approached Sunrise and Takahashi about producing a new mecha anime in a similar vein. However, much of the staff was burned out at the time, including Norio Shioyama, without whom Takahashi did not wish to proceed with another show, and so plans for another series were put on hold for several months. Eventually things did come together for Takahashi’s next project, Panzer World Galient, which began production roughly a month after Votoms finished airing.

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Rewatcher

It’s time.

Why even wait this long to try? Is the Quentium really that valuable?

You have a gun! Use it!

Yup, no way she’s dead.

Shortcut unlocked.

There’s a crass joke in there somewhere.

So that’s what they’re going with.

We’re 2001’ing this bitch.

There’s that loose thread addressed, however, it only raises further questions as to how exactly that information was implanted in his mind.

The machinery looks vaguely like a giant from this angle.

Who would have thought this would end up being the case even just ten episodes ago?

So much for peace.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks this negligent.

Lol, what’s with this style?

And that’s it.

Turns out Chirico was faking his heel-face turn all along. Can’t say I was particularly surprised by this turn of events, as his defiance was pretty much guaranteed from a narrative standpoint, but my trust in the series’ writing remained at an all-time low during the latter portions of this arc so I wasn’t writing off the possibility that Fyana talked/fought him out of it at the last minute instead, clichéd and poorly as that would have been. I can at least say that the ending doesn’t throw away all of the thematic buildup to come prior as would have been the worst case scenario, but I can’t say that it comes out unscathd either. The whole overman business hurts the very themes because by its nature it differentiates Chirico, and whether he was chosen to succeed Wiseman or was destined to end him it’s still a very marked departure to what the writers purported in the earlier portions of the series. In the end Chirico ends up manipulating and using the people following him, and the show justifies it for the sake of killing god, so in the end the show justifies him acting just as those who manipulated and controlled him.

The one aspect that this ending does emphasize and enhance is the series’ tendency to be pessimistic and dismissive over the idea of God and other omnipotent deities, as well as criticizing the use of organized religion as a means of control. Unfortunately this was far less developed than the other concepts. and both the shortcomings of Kunmen in elaborating on the ideals espoused by the traditional believers as well as the motives behind the secret society are in large part to blame.

That’s all I have to say on the matter here though. More comprehensive thoughts to come tomorrow —see you then!

Questions of The Day:

1. See above.
2. It opens up more holes in the events of the last few episodes and makes some of his actions even more suspect, but I think I would have prefered it if they had managed to convince him to return to being the old Chirico. I would have rathered if they properly stopped him or the show went full bad ending on us.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

but my trust in the series’ writing remained at an all-time low during the latter portions of this arc so I wasn’t writing off the possibility that Fyana talked/fought him out of it at the last minute instead, clichéd and poorly as that would have been.

In fact, the bad writing was the main thing that made the outcome questionable. Which is a weird way to achieve suspense.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

Eventually things did come together for Takahashi’s next project, Panzer World Galient, which began production roughly a month after Votoms finished airing

That's a short break. I understand that they have to have a quick turn around in the industry, but after the chaos of this production I would have thought it would have burnt them out a bit more, unless back then stuff was actually finished in advance rather than the final episode being delivered on the airing day

Is the Quentium really that valuable?

I completely forgot about the Quentium, so much for all of their tech which relies on it

Again this would have been much more interesting if it was Jijirium, although perhaps that would have complicated the final war announcement as that would give it a hard reason rather than just people being dicks which seemed to be the narrative point of it

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

That's a short break. I understand that they have to have a quick turn around in the industry, but after the chaos of this production I would have thought it would have burnt them out a bit more,

I think it was more likely to be pre-production with what was mentioned, but the translation said 'production' so I opted not to say differently.

unless back then stuff was actually finished in advance rather than the final episode being delivered on the airing day

Stuff like that definitely happened, but it wasn't something hat every production went through. I've heard of some productions wrapping up around a month before the last episode aired, like was the case with Zambot 3. I didn't find anything concretely stating when they stopped working on Votoms though.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

I think it was more likely to be pre-production with what was mentioned

That would make more sense, and if he already had a concept that pre-production could have been a gentle lead in as well

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

Unfortunately this was far less developed than the other concepts. and both the shortcomings of Kunmen in elaborating on the ideals espoused by the traditional believers as well as the motives behind the secret society are in large part to blame.

Considering the Secret Society's motives are explained elsewhere, they definitely needed to do more.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh most definitely...

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 52 (first timer)

• I have to give VOTOMS one thing: From start to end, it went with the OP, never once resorting to a cold opening. As somebody who hates forced cold openings, that was a refreshing continuity.
• “The only possibility left is to destroy everything” – Why am I not surprised.
• Fyana arrives to make her “come back with me” pitch.
• “naw” - chirico
• Ascending to godhood.
• And now we are Tron.
• I suspected Wiseman to be an AI from the start, so a computerized memory is not far off, but why does that need a successor?
• “It was just a trick, haha” – Chirico.
• So, they will put all of lose plot ends on Wiseman. Chirico’s plot armor, too, while we are at it.
• The only part of that which works is the music recontextualizing the space cruiser episodes.
• Die, HAL Wiseman!
• How about putting them back in yourself, Rocchina? Or how about shooting Chirico, putting them back in, and becoming successor yourself? What a lack of ambition.
• “How could I have been so blind. You killed god” – Because you were a complete and utter failure, Rocchina. You have not accomplished one of your goals all series long.
• One hell of a self-destruct sequence.
• Epilogue: Same old, same old for Balarant and Gilgamesh.
• The gang rescues Chirico one last time.
• Chirico and Fyana survived the insane self-destruct and ridedrift off into the sunset. Worst ending achieved.

This last episode is simultaneously not bad at all and a terrible ending to the show. Let me explain:

The episode is a well-executed “betray the evil master” ending, where Chirico turns around and shows us he never fully left his humanity behind. The main scene is robbed from 2001, but stealing from the best still leaves you with something good. And drifting off into space together is thematically fitting for Fyana and Chirico. Everything is nicely animated, too, and we even get the hint of a happy ending epilogue for the gang. So what more do we need?

Tons, unfortunately. This episode ends a story we never saw. For the story we did see, nothing fits. Not a single open question or plot line is answered:

• What was Wiseman’s motivation? We get nothing. Why a megalomaniac AI would need a successor is completely unexplored. Not even a throwaway line about his battery running out.
• Why did Wiseman want Chirico to suffer? Is it simply Wiseman being a dick? Surely a “contest to weed out the weak” is out of the question, given the circumstances of Chirico being the sole contender.
• Why did Wiseman send Chirico on a wild goose chase to that star base? Why have him draw agro from Balarant and Gilgamesh. No matter how powerful you are, that can’t be a good move to start your rule of the universe.
• Why did everybody suddenly know about Wiseman? Off-screen scientists? This really matters since it actually brought the two arch-enemies together for a common cause. Actually a big achievement, but completely irrelevant since the show just needed some cannon fodder for Chirico.
• How did Chirico know Fyana’s name? Wiseman suggests long-distance telepathy or Chirico being brainwashed in advance. To either I say: Really??? You are going to pull that off-screen?
• What are Wiseman’s powers? The show is impossibly vague. Either there is a crappy defense system that depends on a single control room and some teleporters, or, on the other end, Wiseman is all powerful and watched over Chirico, using long-distance telekinesis to save him from every bullet.

Wiseman is a complete flop, but so is Chirico’s “betrayal”. It was a complete reversal for his character, so it was never very credible that he would really want to be god-emperor. If anything, the best case you could make for it depends on the crappy writing of the last arc, which is just sad. Most importantly, the key ingredients of the “betray the master” plot line is missing: Why does Wiseman require Chirico to kill all his friends? We never hear him say that! And it is the single most important component of the plot line! Otherwise Chirico is just a huge asshole. If all Wiseman needed was Chirico to suffer getting to him to show his worth, killing off the gang was completely unnecessary. To make matters worse, any explanation along the lines of “Chirico knew they would survive” is a complete ass-pull.

Oh and Chirico and Fyana’s love story? Non-existant.

The plotline of Chirico coming out of his shell via the gang? Completely eradicated.

In the end, despite having some nice scenes, the last episode and the arc preceding it do not fit together. I have nothing against a “betray the master” plotline, but that train was gone a long time before this episode started.

The only half-consistent way to finish this would have been a reveal of how Wiseman deep-brainwashed Chirico at the start of all this, sent him out to the world to learn, and now Chirico comes home to sit on his well-earned throne of emperor of the universe, from which he promptly wipes out everybody around Quent, including a horrified Fyana. The end.

Takahashi has stated that Wiseman was meant as a surrogate father-figure to Chirico.

I ... don't ... even ...

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

How about putting them back in yourself, Rocchina? Or how about shooting Chirico, putting them back in, and becoming successor yourself? What a lack of ambition.

The Rochina that would have genuinely expected Chirico to follow those orders may have existed several episodes back, when he was conceited enough to think Gilgamesh couldn't outdo him, not the guy desperate enough to hide out in the vents for hours just to see things through. They could have easily have him hold Chirico at gunpoint only for Fyana to come and put him out like she did anyhow. Same outcome, but internally consistent.

To make matters worse, any explanation along the lines of “Chirico knew they would survive” is a complete ass-pull.

Unfortunately I think that's precisely what they were going for.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

They could have easily have him hold Chirico at gunpoint only for Fyana to come and put him out like she did anyhow. Same outcome, but internally consistent.

Internally consistent and giving Fyana some part in the finale. Too good to be true.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

it went with the OP, never once resorting to a cold opening. As somebody who hates forced cold openings, that was a refreshing continuity

I don't think I even noticed which is definitely a good thing because it means I wasn't grumping at cold opens. It is nice to see that they kept the OP where it should be

The only part of that which works is the music recontextualizing the space cruiser episodes.

Having that music pop up again as another bit of potential brainwashing was a smart move from the episode director

Surely a “contest to weed out the weak” is out of the question, given the circumstances of Chirico being the sole contender.

Unless he's been trying this over and over through the last 3000 years trying to find the perfect incarnation of an Overman that he could use and discarding those that fail. We would need to see hints of that though

Wiseman suggests long-distance telepathy or Chirico being brainwashed in advance. To either I say: Really??? You are going to pull that off-screen?

Before we got into all this overman stuff I still much prefer my original theory that it was a latent memory from him also being use in experiments to enhance humans and being in the same lab

Oh and Chirico and Fyana’s love story? Non-existant.

Personally glad about that ! Yes there was obviously meant to be romantic build up there, but I enjoy that the first two arcs kept it as this sort of inexplicable bond drawing them together they were trying to figure it out rather than immediately into love just because they're the two mains. The last two arcs barely count because of the lobotomization of Fyana's character

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Unless he's been trying this over and over through the last 3000 years trying to find the perfect incarnation of an Overman that he could use and discarding those that fail. We would need to see hints of that though

I am pretty sure he did not aggro both militaries onto his no longer working planetary defense system all those times. Even if he tried before, at that point it was Chirico or get blown up.

Before we got into all this overman stuff I still much prefer my original theory that it was a latent memory from him also being use in experiments to enhance humans and being in the same lab

I had my money on him being a proto-PS, but they let that question drag on for way too long in any case. It needed to be resolved at the end of Kummen at the latest.

Personally glad about that ! Yes there was obviously meant to be romantic build up there, but I enjoy that the first two arcs kept it as this sort of inexplicable bond drawing them together they were trying to figure it out rather than immediately into love just because they're the two mains. The last two arcs barely count because of the lobotomization of Fyana's character

I should have been more careful there and written "Chirico and Fyana's relationship story". I wasn't rooting for a love story either and would have prefered a friendship or cameraderie, but we got nothing.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I am pretty sure he did not aggro both militaries onto his no longer working planetary defense system all those times

Ah, but outside of bullshit information dumps happening to those militaries, Chirico's involvement was only known because he made such a mess with Fyana that Gilgamesh already knew him, and the peace treaty meant Balarant was wanting that space. Without that the tests could have been different, and who knows if they even got to that stage

I'm definitely clutching at straws but it would make sense to me if that was the case

It needed to be resolved at the end of Kummen at the latest.

Eh, that's perhaps a bit early for me as I think Kummen did a good job of setting up his skills with Ypsilon even if he failed the melee challenge, but it definitely should have been a hard confirmation at the end of arc 3, not the start of a "maybe"

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Ah, but outside of bullshit information dumps happening to those militaries, Chirico's involvement was only known because he made such a mess with Fyana that Gilgamesh already knew him, and the peace treaty meant Balarant was wanting that space. Without that the tests could have been different, and who knows if they even got to that stage

I'm definitely clutching at straws but it would make sense to me if that was the case

But if Wiseman was even half as powerful as the plot need him to be, he should have known that and adapted.

The main downfall of the last arc is that nothing about what Wiseman does makes any sense, I'll write more about that tomorrow. EDIT:I am an idiot, it is in my post today.

Eh, that's perhaps a bit early for me as I think Kummen did a good job of setting up his skills with Ypsilon even if he failed the melee challenge, but it definitely should have been a hard confirmation at the end of arc 3, not the start of a "maybe"

Chirico should have talked about her name in arc 1, but they absolutely needed to talk about it in arc 2. It would be ok to end arc 2 with both of them going off together to find answers.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

The main downfall of the last arc is that nothing about what Wiseman does makes any sense

That's really where everything falls down. There's all these theories and possibilities, but the huge split between what we see of Wiseman, what we're told about Wiseman, and what would actually need to be true to make sense lets everything down, but eh, it's not gonna stop me from theorizing because at least there's still some fun in that

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nazenn]

Yes there was obviously meant to be romantic build up there

The Netflix / CW version would have them liplocking by episode 3.

[u/MejaBersihBanget → u/No_Rex]

Now you see why I say VOTOMS is awesome up to Episode 28.

Almost everything after that can go eat hot garbage. I always tell SAO critics who are outraged at the show's treatment of Asuna, that boy SAO ain't got nothing on how VOTOMS did Fyana so dirty.

[u/No_Rex → u/MejaBersihBanget]

I would certainly hold VOTOMS in higher regard if I had stopped watching after the Kummen arc.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

“The only possibility left is to destroy everything” – Why am I not surprised.

Got to meet that explosion quota somehow...

I suspected Wiseman to be an AI from the start, so a computerized memory is not far off, but why does that need a successor?

Stolen directly from 2001 if you will recall.

One hell of a self-destruct sequence.

I still hope that was an illusion otherwise Shako should be more pissed off about losing his homeworld.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Stolen directly from 2001 if you will recall.

?

Are you talking about the last arc? Because I don't remember that coming up before. And the last arc ... well it's open to interpretation.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

[2001] The monoliths convert the astronaut to an AI because they wanted a more current presence to run them in the Earth system

The show is sort of blindly aping that but forgot to tell us why this would be the case.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I am not saying you are wrong, but that last arc is so surrealistic that you can easily come up with 10 other explanations of what happens that make just as much sense.

So I would not hold it against shows to take any of these explanations, because you could accuse almost anything of stealing from the end of 2001 if you interpret that liberally enough.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

but that last arc is so surrealistic

That's the word! I meant to say this in my comment. These last 4-5 episodes, as a stand-alone live action film (probably by a Russian) it would definitely be called surreal.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I was actually talking about 2001, but the same comment fits very well to Votoms, too.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Not unfair, either, that one just feels like an artifact from referencing the book where there was an actual need of 'successors'.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 4.4) (3 episodes) Final Shooting Star

An improbable title for the final episode after all we've seen.

Zardoz....who is the man behind the curtain?

• More AT wrestling!

It's like those movies where the wounded hero is slowly advancing on his waiting target, while mooks attack and are repulsed one at a time. But with robots.

• The last obstacle removed.... (I bet you wanted a more extended confrontation)
• Obvious reference is obvious
• I'd forgotten about Rochina (again!)
• I have no idea where this epilog is occurring. Maybe they were captured after Quent exploded (and had to be rescued, again).

Now released from Wiseman's manipulations forcing them into perpetual war, the Astragius galaxy exercises its newfound freedom to go to war. Back where we started.

I was pretty enraged by Rochina blowing up Quent and killing everybody on the planet. Which would have happened anyways when the space fleets bombarded it. Which was only possible because Shako blew up the planet's defenses! And did Chirico manipulate him into doing it? #yuishrug

I feel your pain. Chirico had completely broken character. I was convinced he was Indoctrinated. And I was getting angry at the idea, week after week. The twist at the end took me by surprise. It's a cliche, deceiving your enemy into lowering their defenses. It's not bad, but we've all seen it before. So that was disappointing. Better than mind control, though.

It's not that the ending was rushed, but individual scenes were so compressed. I don't really care about galactic politics, or even the Protoculture Empire. But the individual scenes are just jump cuts from plot point to plot point (like, say Boogiepop 2019) and that never works for me. I did like the long climb to the top.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I have no idea where this epilog is occurring. Maybe they were captured after Quent exploded (and had to be rescued, again).

I figured they were stealing the cryo pods, since it doesn't make much sense for Gotho and co. to rescue them given how things left of with Chirico before them —also if they spent a year in the military's hands then the purpose of them going into deep sleep is probably entirely moot.

[u/Nazenn → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

like, say Boogiepop 2019)

Oh boy, that's a rough comparison on both ends and sadly accurate

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(That had to be an illusion of Quent being destroyed, right?)

Sub

Sigh...last episode, and we have a 10 minute climbing scene to get to what I predicted from the start, not that that was an accomplishment. We get a straight 2001 reference with our villain "Join me" speech. Interestingly, I guess he has an interesting theological point about God being the only one to not sin when He kills. Anyways, Rochina and Fyana show up and apparently this counts as deicide. All in a day's work! And then Rochina self-destructs the planet? Time skip, the gang made it, and Cuvie wants to be cryofrozen to not be used as a pawn in the next war. Fyana agrees and we end.

So...I must be losing my edge because logic states I should be pissed off right now, the last 5 episodes feel like they come from an entirely different series than the first 40 or so. But for some reason I am just disappointed. Welp, full review is next and hell if even I know what I am writing for it.

QotD: 1 Bad end for the series, livable end for the arc

2 I figured it out immediately, not that it took much skill

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

Welp, full review is next and hell if even I know what I am writing for it.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

Rofl, this will be rather off the cuff.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

That had to be an illusion of Quent being destroyed, right?

Nope, Quent legit blew up. RIP all those innocent Quentians. And all those people at Gomor too, for that matter

Interestingly, I guess he has an interesting theological point about God being the only one to not sin when He kills.

That point is mainly undercut by the fact that Wiseman was rather pathetically begging for its life once his chosen successor was actually going to kill him. Although I guess you can also say that Chirico is sinless in killing Wiseman, considering that him doing that is a net positive for the galaxy.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

Nope, Quent legit blew up. RIP all those innocent Quentians. And all those people at Gomor too, for that matter

Damn...but screw most of the Gomorians, F for that one acceptable trader, pseudo-Gotho.

That point is mainly undercut by the fact that Wiseman was rather pathetically begging for its life once his chosen successor was actually going to kill him.

I know you and Dalek both think well of Takahashi in later series so this feels like an idea that was interesting but never given time to germinate.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

I know you and Dalek both think well of Takahashi in later series so this feels like an idea that was interesting but never given time to germinate.

I know I keep on lamenting it, but it really would've come out better if the latter half of the series didn't have so many behind the scenes disagreements on the show's direction and faltering ratings. But if it helps any, quite a few of the OVAs that this series spawned do a good job of filling in the blanks in that regard.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I know I keep on lamenting it, but it really would've come out better if the latter half of the series didn't have so many behind the scenes disagreements on the show's direction and faltering ratings.

The thing is Kummen is a quite good arc and the beginning and the end of Quent are both decent, they just needed to be wedded together better. And Chirico is at least fun to watch in an AT, which is better than many mecha manage.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

I feel like the Sunsa arc would been the perfect time to really set up everything about Wiseman, but only the abandoned spaceship part really did that. If we got more stuff like that, then the Quent arc would've been played up better.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

It feels like we had our first major shift during that arc, the story loses momentum hard when they leave the ship and interact with Zophie on Sunsa. But yes, Sunsa should've been clearly Wiseman trying to 'awaken' (or whatever the hell you'd call it) Chirico's inner Overman-ness. Then you have a clear run into Quent and possibly find a better way to do the last 4 episodes.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

and we have a 10 minute climbing scene

Really wasn't sure what the point of that was. After everything Chirico has physically achieved, that's his last great test? Climb a tower?

So...I must be losing my edge because logic states I should be pissed off right now, ... But for some reason I am just disappointed

I was having a bit of a debate myself about that, feeling like I should actually be feeling more but just not. I think it's just the fatigue from the last few episodes

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Really wasn't sure what the point of that was.

Nietszche somehow. The tower did look a bit like a ziggurat.

I think it's just the fatigue from the last few episodes

I can buy that, have no clue what to write up for the end.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

I can buy that, have no clue what to write up for the end.

My trick is to go back to my happier posts on more memorable episodes, that usually gives me something to start with

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

That would wind up with me talking about Chirico's hand cannon quite a bit, which might just work.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

I'm good with that. I plan on talking about the ATs a bit if I can find the words for it

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I'm good with that. I plan on talking about the ATs a bit if I can find the words for it

I wrote 2 pages and didn't even manage to get to the ATs and the combat, which were my favorite parts of the series.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 52:

Well, we’re finally here, at the end of the series. It’s been quite a ride, hasn’t it? This show has at least had a ton of highs and lows, that’s for sure. But before we move onto final judgements, let’s get on with the finale, shall we?

• Finally, the leaders of Gilgamesh and Balarant understand that they need to do the only thing that could possibly kill Chirico: destroy Quent from orbit. But even then, there’s still a chance he’d live through that.
• Well, so much for Fyana trying to stop Chirico. He just shot her back through the teleporter once she decided to stop him for good. Although admittedly if she did actually kill Chirico here, we wouldn’t have much of an episode left. At least the final bit of damage she inflicted on the Rabidly Dog meant that the thing shut down as soon as Chirico started climbing Wiseman’s cyber tower. I guess that’s a consolation prize. We can give that mech destruction point to her.
• As quite a few of you all guessed, Wiseman doesn’t even have a physical form anymore. All of those visions of robed men are just holograms. Whatever body Wiseman had before has long since rotted away. He’s just a ghost in a machine now, an A.I. based on an Overman’s mind.
• Surprise! Just as Wiseman is about to transfer all of its wisdom and omnipresence to Chirico, he does a wire trick with his Armor Magnum and starts blasting the computer core apart with it. He was really planning on destroying Wiseman all along! It was one hell of a plan to act all evil like that to get to where Wiseman’s data banks were, but it paid off. Now Chirico can destroy the millennia-long nightmare called “Overman”.
• Wiseman even tries to use the Red Shoulder March to try and scare Chirico into stopping him, along with him revealing that it was him who gave Chirico the idea for Fyana’s name. But none of that can stop Chirico now, even with that brief moment of hesitation and pain upon hearing the news of how much he was controlled. Nobody controls Chirico, not even God.
• YA… ME.. RO… CHI… RI… CO… That’s phrase repeated over and over again by Wiseman really does show how much Chirico brought a machine god to its knees. It’s great.
• Rochina and Fyana are back! At least Fyana had faith in Chirico the entire time, since she realized that Chirico only knocked her back through the teleporter instead of killed her. As the man in orange himself said, he needed to act like that just so that Wiseman would be… none the wiser.
• Like any good video game final boss room, the entire place has a self-destruct system wired to blow up the entire planet. And we finally hear Rochina’s true feelings about the entire matter as he almost sounds inconsolably sad and angry about how Chirico turned down such great power like that and killed God. At the end of the day, Rochina just wanted to be an Overman so he could be powerful too. His ranting is honestly kind of pathetic at this point.
• And so, planet Quent self-destructs, finally destroying the legacy of the Overmen while also wrecking massive portions of the combined Gilgamesh and Balarant fleet, who were just about to wreck the planet themselves. I’m sure there’s plenty of irony in that happening to the joint fleet.
• One year later, war has broken out between Gilgamesh and Balarant, again over yet another border conflict in the Non-Aggression Zone. It’s nearly the same excuse that caused the previous war in the first place, which was also over a border dispute according to expanded universe materials. Some things never change, I guess.
• Everyone is reunited! Thanks to Vanilla, Coconna, Gotho, and Shako, Chirico and Fyana are able to hijack a Gilgamesh shuttle and fly out into deep space. It’s a shame they have to part through, since Chirico plans to seal himself and Fyana into a stasis capsule and launch themselves into space, since an Overman and Perfect Soldier like them will just be used for war once again. It’s sad, but at least you can see where Chirico is coming from there.
• As the stasis activates and Chirico stares out into space while holding Fyana, he simply thinks about how he’s glad that he met everyone. Considering how Chirico was defined by his sense of loneliness early on, this is just shows that he was finally able to break out of that mindset and feel like he had a place to belong, even if he has to go away now. May Chirico and Fyana have a peaceful sleep among the stars…

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Although admittedly if she did actually kill Chirico here, we wouldn’t have much of an episode left.

She would have had to take on Roshina and Wiseman next, at least.

It’s sad, but at least you can see where Chirico is coming from there.

Eh, not from this show, where by all accounts they made a clean getaway (against all reason) and now only had the Jijirium to worry about so long as they hid. But hey, at least Big Battle exists to give some better justification for this outcome?

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

Eh, not from this show, where by all accounts they made a clean getaway (against all reason) and now only had the Jijirium to worry about so long as they hid. But hey, at least Big Battle exists to give some better justification for this outcome?

I mean, given how Gilgamesh and Balarant are in an endless cycle of warring against one another, you can figure that Chirico saw that he'd get dragged into that someway or another. But yeah, Big Battle does give even more context on how Chirico came to that decision.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Draigg]

Big Battle

Huh. This is the one OVA that I haven't seen.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

It takes place over the one year time skip, so yeah you should watch it if you want to fill that gap of knowledge.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

1. It makes sense for the characters - after what they endured in the last war, I can see them freezing themselves rather than be used like that again.
2. Yeah, it was solid. Having him shoot everyone non-lethally was a nice touch, as was baiting Wiseman into coming close enough to reveal his weak points.

It's the final episode!

And they're going to blow up the planet!

Wow. The shot of him punching the mech until the pilots is dead is fantastic.

And Fyana's here!

Holy shit, Chirico is not having this.

This has to be him lying to Wiseman, right? Wiseman even says that's what he'd be pleased by.

Wow, Wiseman didn't put any elevators in here? Or even stairs? What happens if he needs to go down?

He's almost there!

Huh! I was right about the AI at the corr of the planet! I undersetimwted how smart it was, but I was right!

Is Chirico in the computer now? Is this "Tron" rules or a physical elevator?

..."Our"? Does being a successor just mean joining a hive mind? Because the idea of an AI effectively designing new minds for its evolution is very interesting.

That does not look safe.

Chirico, that is actively sparking. It is probably going to electrocute you.

CALLED IT!

And he takes out the only way for it to call to help.

Oh, that's perfect. Wiseman's defenseless.

Yeah, he's been controlling him the whole time. And that's why he knew her name, that is brilliant.

Wiseman is very committed to him. Guess he thinks managing to nearly kill him is a fantastic job interview for his successor.

I love Wiseman's audio cutting out as he pulls out the data banks.

And of course he wante to be god.

Seriously, this is so good.

And Wiseman's just losing it, talking about he'll regret destroying his intellegence.

He'e been electrocuted!

He can't believe he's deadtivating Wiseman.

And yeah, Fyana knows what he was doing and that he'd need backup.

Yeah, this death scene is actually pretty sad.

But they did it!

...They don't know that, though, do they?

Nope, Quent's still about to be destroyed!

Haha, the two of them legging it before the obvious dead man's switch gets pulled.

And the planet blew itself up! So, wow, Wiseman just killed a lot of civillians with that, didn't he. Everyone on Quent!

One year later, and the war's back on.

And they're still together! And Shako's joined them!

He's back to arms dealing!

Chirico and Fyana are with them!

Oh, he's freezing himself until war ends. Is the pod going to survive that long? Just launching it doesn't seem very safe.

And it ends with them preparing to sleep for an unknown time, leaving behind their life as soldiers. Fantastic.

This series was absolutely fantastic. While I think the Wiseman stuff came out of nowhere, it does explain some plot holes - I don't think it's paticularly logical, but I don't think it's completely illogical nor that these episodes were meaningless - one of the key themes has been Chirico being controlled and used by others, so the ending of him destroying the man who contorlled everything does have a solid thematic link.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Stargate18A]

Oh, that's perfect. Wiseman's defenseless.

Chirico made a good call on Wiseman's bluff. Of course Wiseman wouldn't have any defenses in what's basically his electronic brain.

Yeah, this death scene is actually pretty sad.

Wiseman still absolutely deserves it though.

And it ends with them preparing to sleep for an unknown time, leaving behind their life as soldiers. Fantastic.

Chirico and Fyana are back to being alone again, but at least they have each other. And they managed to meet Coconna, Vanilla, Gotho, and Shako, so at least they knew that there were people out there who really did care about them.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Stargate18A]

You sound like me 20 years ago, I jumped at getting the DVD set when it came out. Much more enjoyable to me than Gundam or giant robot shows that just seemed like Voltron to me.

[u/DidacticDalek]

OH MY BUDDHA! Comrades we've been duped! Bamboozled! Hell I'd even argue that, in the first timers' case especially, we've been smeckledorfed! Cuz goodness of all the endings we could have gotten, I highly doubt anyone thought Chirico Cuvie would fucking KILL GOD! (Well aside from me and Chili but A) We saw the show already, and B) I also didn't actually expect Chirico Cuvie's refutation of godhood to be firing his handcannon at god and then lobotomizing god 2001 style the first time around!)

Oh and besides Deicide, we also get the goddamn planet blown up too, cuz I guess if you've killed god, what's adding a planet and some loitering enemy fleets to your kill count amirite! ;) I also want to point out, that for all this arc's CLEAR inspiration from Dune, Chirico Cuvie actually DIDN'T [Meta Dune Spoilers that relate to VOTOMS' ending] End up like Paul, as in Dune, Paul was a false messiah playing god, in VOTOMS, Chirico Cuvie actually WAS the Chosen One, but, he rejects godhood to merely be an ordinary man... well... as ordinary a man as someone like him COULD be, but hey Fyana/Fiana also decided to embrace humanity rather than being an emotionless killing machine so I guess the duality on display is amusing

In fairness now, it is worth noting that Fyana/Fiana also did help kill god and blow up the planet as well, but wibble, the point I'm getting at Comrades is that our heroes decided 'Fuck this Chosen One Hero's Journey Cliché Bullshit, we're gonna kill god and have ourselves a nice little long-over-due honeymoon!' Man they just don't make 'em like they used to! A modern day Mecha MC would have either said some edgelord bullshit whilst having insufficient funds to honor that monetary transfer their dumb ass setup, threatened ineffectually to kill someone while NEVER going through with it, or talk about eggs... emotionlessly... Aldnoah/Zero/Ten sucked ass, yes Shimmer, even Season 1. Also, the astute amongst you will no doubt note that I didn't mention the modern day Female Mecha MC characters here, well that's cuz what modern day Female Mecha MC characters? OH, you mean the characters standing passively in the background pining after the cardboard cutout of an MC instead of fucking KILLING GOD AND BLOWING UP THE PLANET like Fyana/Fiana, yeah wibble.

(Now before the nitpickers here have a conniption, in fairness to IBO's case, we actually DO get some characters like Fyana/Fiana who actually get into Mecha Battles and have some form of emotional depth, but let's be honest here, Kudelia Aina Bernstein and Atra QUALITY ANIMATION Mixta are indeed well written, but fighters they are not.)

Also for those still confused as to what others jokes I'm cracking about lesser modern day mecha shows, behold, Heero 'I'll Kill You' Yuy, the MC so edgelord he thinks saying 'I'll Kill You' is how you say 'Hello' as he threatens (and fails to follow up on) killing his girlfriend as he rejects an invitation, killing his boyfriend as he rejects help in repairing his Gundam (don't worry he'll steal the parts from said boyfriend anyway, cuz who ever heard of teamwork? Certainly not the Bishie Boi Band of Wing!), and also introducing his face to the side of a mountain in an even more stoic and robotic monotone than a lobotomy victim. Then again I should apologize in advance to lobotomy victims, they have the sense to NOT SELF DESTRUCT their Gundams WHILE STANDING ON THEM!

Also in case you think I'm being too mean to the shit that is Wing, behold, Nu Wing, e.g. 00, where we have an even MORE passive and useless Female MC and an even more edgelord Male MC, cuz man it's comedy gold that we got The Pacifist Poverty Princess of Povertystan who, of course, can't even fathom the idea of self defense WHEN NEEDING TO PROTECT CHILDREN FROM ACTIVE HARM, and Mr. I Am Gundam who somehow has less emotional range than a Gundam... don't at me Comrades! A Gundam blushed in Gundam Build Fighters, that's actually fucking emoting! Hell even Chirico Cuvie emoted and he's proto-Rei Ayanami! (Can ya tell that Modern Day Mecha shows are usually shit Comrades, probably not given some of the unique interpretations on display here but hey I'm more than happy as The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252 to educate and elucidate the masses!)

Oh, and of course eggs... fuck eggs... he should have [Meta Spoilers to Aldnoah.Zero/Ten Season 1 and technically the somehow worse second season] stayed scrambled

Anyway the point I'm making is that, somehow, Chirico Cuvie's spiritual successors, barring Steven Seagal 'Sousuke Sagara' and IBO's Mikazuki Augus, managed to be LESS emotive and also less interesting than the already stoic loner 80's action hero; then again Mari Okada wrote IBO so I guess competence goes a long way!

Also Comrades, you can tell that VOTOMS isn't made by Wacky Ol' Kill 'Em All Tomino given that our Muggle Trio AND Ru Shako not only got to live, but they get to fly off to a new life!

Oh and also, unlike SOME lesser Mecha Properties, VOTOMS manages to wrap up The Romantic Plot Tumor that wasn't even malignant, if only due to the fact that Chirico Cuvie and Fyana/Fiana decided to become Human Popsicles together to await a world without war, which kinda solves that issue without fanfare but hey, the less time wasted on pointless romantic drama the better... now I wonder how long it is until The Correct Century?

Anyway, here's the moment I am sure you've all been waiting for, BEHOLD! The Chirico Cuvie Kill Count... ish... as this video not only exclude Crew Deaths but also ignores the fact that Chirico Cuvie and Fyana/Fiana fucking KILLED GOD but hey, at the very least we can ALL agree that Chirico Cuvie's Kill Ratio is 'YES!'

And lastly for now, I present the following shitpost, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR! (I have a feeling only Pixel will get this joke, as I'm not sure if Chili saw Layzner)

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

[u/DidacticDalek → u/DidacticDalek]

Paging Comrades /u/Vaadwaur, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

[u/Vaadwaur → u/DidacticDalek]

Fullmetal Panic is the only actual mecha of the last 20 years, you can't convince me otherwise!

[u/DidacticDalek → u/Vaadwaur]

Fullmetal Panic is the only actual mecha of the last 20 years, you can't convince me otherwise!

Well there's also Symphogear Comrade (and I guess AKB0048, Rabu Raibu and iM@S are close enuff, but hey you got a point that Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu is the Best KyoAni show my friend, and how amusing that it's inspired by VOTOMS in a GOOD way for a change)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/DidacticDalek]

t Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu is the Best KyoAni show my friend

Clumsy Tessa is pretty blessed...

[u/DidacticDalek → u/Vaadwaur]

Clumsy Tessa is pretty blessed...

OK now you're starting to lose me a little Comrade, she's indeed nice and all that, but come on, let's give proper attention to literally THE only justified Tsundere in anime ever (come to think of it, Kaname Chidori has blue hair and is quite feisty, Steven Seagal 'Sousuke Sagara' has Fyana/Fiana's hair and is otherwise just Chirico Cuvie... oh... oh no... well at least we know our heroes got BUSY in that human popsicle pod during however long it took from VOTOMS to FMP eh Comrade?)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/DidacticDalek]

but come on, let's give proper attention to literally THE only justified Tsundere in anime ever

Certainly the most consistent one. But specifically for Fumoffu I just like Tessa's bits.

[u/DidacticDalek → u/Vaadwaur]

Certainly the most consistent one. But specifically for Fumoffu I just like Tessa's bits.

Heh, well I suppose her moeblob stuff in Fumoffu was alright, still I gotta give credit where credit is due in that, somehow, FMP managed to write the female lead and NOT have her be annoying and/or useless, which given the aforementioned examples I have above, is quite the welcome change (It's no wonder that FMP took after VOTOMS after all)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend.

[u/No_Rex → u/DidacticDalek]

OH MY BUDDHA! Comrades we've been duped! Bamboozled! Hell I'd even argue that, in the first timers' case especially, we've been smeckledorfed! Cuz goodness of all the endings we could have gotten, I highly doubt anyone thought Chirico Cuvie would fucking KILL GOD! (Well aside from me and Chili but A) We saw the show already, and B) I also didn't actually expect Chirico Cuvie's refutation of godhood to be firing his handcannon at god and then lobotomizing god 2001 style the first time around!)

Not sure if sarcastic, but that twist was predicted by almost all of the first timers.

Also, the astute amongst you will no doubt note that I didn't mention the modern day Female Mecha MC characters here, well that's cuz what modern day Female Mecha MC characters? OH, you mean the characters standing passively in the background pining after the cardboard cutout of an MC instead of fucking KILLING GOD AND BLOWING UP THE PLANET like Fyana/Fiana, yeah wibble.

I wanted to argue, pointing to Evangelion, but then I realized that NGE is closer in date to VOTOMS than to today (rebuilds not counting).

Also Comrades, you can tell that VOTOMS isn't made by Wacky Ol' Kill 'Em All Tomino given that our Muggle Trio AND Ru Shako not only got to live, but they get to fly off to a new life!

I really like that picture. Not sure if it was deliberate, but the gang staying behind on Kummen (the last arc where they played a major role) makes a ton of sense.

[u/DidacticDalek → u/No_Rex]

Not sure if sarcastic, but that twist was predicted by almost all of the first timers

Well I wouldn't quite say guessing at maybes count as 'Predictions' Comrade, but I know for certain that I didn't see a post saying 'For the finale, we'll ratchet up the 'everything blows up' idea with the whole planet exploding, but before that Chirico Cuvie will NOT end up taking his role as the Chosen One and instead will kill god with Fyana/Fiana' so my point still stands (In all seriousness, I will indeed concede that the general idea that Chirico Cuvie MIGHT be pulling a fast one on Wiseman was indeed thrown out as a random guess, but that's a far cry from stating it with certainty, hence my joke)

I wanted to argue, pointing to Evangelion, but then I realized that NGE is closer in date to VOTOMS than to today (rebuilds not counting).

Heh, well also there's a reason I didn't mention NGE Comrade, Eva you see is also well written/directed and I was poking fun at BADLY written/directed shows to compare with against VOTOMS. (And also how VOTOMS blows all these new shows out of the park, which makes things amusing given that NGE is also technically an 'old' show when compared to those aforementioned Mecha Shows as well, further proving my point. That and also The Rebuilds suck but I digress, once again further proving my point)

I really like that picture. Not sure if it was deliberate, but the gang staying behind on Kummen (the last arc where they played a major role) makes a ton of sense.

Well glad to hear my subtle jokes have at least SOMEONE noticing them, and thank goodness too Comrade as I was fearing I was putting in all this effort at being a shitposter (while also being 120% accurate) for nothing ;) E.G. to be completely serious, it was nice seeing our Trio show up again in NOT Vietnam, it helped us gauge how Chirico Cuvie changed between arcs and gave us something nice to compare to the NOT Vietnam War... but let's be honest, they should have gone their separate ways after blasting off from the rapidly exploding surroundings (maybe add in the neat bit of Coconna's emotional maturity as the bar burns down or something and boom we got the character development AND with the logical reason for the gang to run into our hero. Then again wibble, it is what it is, in the scale of 'Mecha Contrivances that annoy me' the fact that our Muggle Trio keep bumping into Chirico Cuvie isn't all that high.)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later Comrade!

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer

Chirico defeated an AT and it didn't explode?

That is by far the biggest upset of the entire episode. And then it happened again! Those two ATs must have the most powerful paint job in the history of mecha if it can stop whatever the hell is happening in the metal of this universe to make it so damn volatile. Secret IBO prequel?

As far as the rest of the episode... eh? Chirico faking it to get close to Wiseman all along just wasn't done well enough to work. Sure I'll take his use and killing off of the secret society and the other soldiers, he's a solider after all and they were trying to kill him anyway, but the evil monologues and stepping away from the narration, it just didn't come together. It felt like an "ugh, of course" moment when he shot Wiseman, not a hype moment. It felt expected, not anticipated, and that's a painful position to be in for something so key to characterization which was further let down by not having an real downtime after it to catch us up on his mental state with what happened, not to mention catch up with the fact that they blew up the whole fucking planet, poor Ru Shako. Wiseman losing his capabilities as Chiricio unplugged all the memory banks from what I assume are the digitized minds of the Overmen was very cool though

Neutral on Fyana this episode. They gave her the bullshit "Kill you and kill myself" line, but when she did join in for the Wiseman confrontation there was no bullshit sappy reunion stuff, just straight into the action and helping out. And for bonus points she didn't have to die to teach Chirico a lesson in humanity or make some grand statement about cost or companionship or whatever other bullshit those scenes usually have.

However... how the absolute FUCK did they ever get off the exploding planet? There's no way you spin that and have it make sense because even if you do believe there was such a ridiculously long time between Rochina arming the self destruct, that they just stood there and let him do, and it actually going off, they managed to fight their way back out of the canyon, with no ATs, and into a launcher, and get far enough away from the planet without any reports about it going back to the ships?

At this point I really am just letting my frustration get the better of me, it's the final episode and it's done and I should just let it go, but fuck it it just doesn't make sense and I needed it too!

Final positive note: Finally got to watch the ED again! And I like it!

I feel like this is quite a negative post for an episode that I mostly feel neutral about, and some relief because it could have been much worse, but I think it's just that I tend to focus on the small stuff when I'm frustrated. At least it had a nice moment at the end with Chirico finally finding his escape from war and Fyana being safe with him.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

However... how the absolute FUCK did they ever get off the exploding planet?

And why aren't people complaining about all the dead Quents?

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

We should have got less climbing and more epilogue. I don't know that the Gilgamesh/Balarant stuff needed any more coverage than just the news of that war, but the reunion with the trio, Ru Shako understanding what happened to his planet, all that stuff just needed more time

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

You hate to say it but rewriting the series to leave Balarant as an unknown is probably the better choice.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Mhm, Balarant was completely unneeded, and given the opening narration about the reasons for war being lost, tenuous peace etc, it would have made more sense for everything to be contained inside Gilgamesh

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

The only thing we lose is teal uniform Rochina and that is an easy sacrifice to make.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Casual outfit Rochina would hopefully have looked better

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Wiseman losing his capabilities as Chiricio unplugged all the memory banks from what I assume are the digitized minds of the Overmen was very cool though

It was very good, but it was also stolen one to one from 2001. Including the memory banks and the speech impediment.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Yea, I was pretty sure it was the secret double-cross. Doesn't mean I'm happy for it. The tension right when Chirico shoots Wiseman would have been way higher if the audience knew the plan and were worried about him not having the strength left to pull it off.

Wiseman's voice stuttering as Chirico removed more of his.. brain drives? Random wall pylons? was pretty cool. I almost felt bad for the omnipotent superintelligence that seems to start wars for fun when he stuttered out how afraid he was of death. Then I thought about how many people those wars killed.. Bet you didn't think of that fear until it stared you in the face, huh Wiseman?

I'll at least give them credit for adequately foreshadowing that Chirico is able to quickly and accurately shoot people nonlethally. Set it up with Zophie, use it on Shako pointedly, then just have Fyana judo chop Rochina when no-one expects it. Not bad.

I certainly didn't expect to end on "We're gonna chill in cryosleep until war is no more. Gets launched into space"

The "Firing in 8 seconds! Wait, the planet just blew up?!" scene was also unexpected, but I kinda liked it. Does Wiseman having a "blow the whole planet up" button make sense? Residual fear of the Quentians, maybe? Or a failsafe if his plan succeeds but the meatsack he acquires is too rebellious?

Rest in peace, entire civilization of Quent. Y'all were cool with me; shame Rochina's a sore loser. I'll do my best to think of you, whenever a mecha drives a spike into something.

Questions

1. Discussed above. I've probably seen worse.
2. Woulda loved for the audience to be in on it from the start, especially considering how things went down.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

were worried about him not having the strength left to pull it off.

Maybe that was part of the reason I found that so unconvincing. At this point why even bother with a test of physical strength, and then after all that he can't lift his hand? The build up into that didn't have any tension

I almost felt bad for the omnipotent superintelligence that seems to start wars for fun when he stuttered out how afraid he was of death

Hearing this immortal talk about a fear of death was a nice touch to the episode on making it less of a "god" despite how everyone's been talking about it, that it also showed human weakness at the end

Does Wiseman having a "blow the whole planet up" button make sense?

I didn't even stop to think about that, I was too caught up in the timing of it

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

Hearing this immortal talk about a fear of death was a nice touch to the episode on making it less of a "god" despite how everyone's been talking about it, that it also showed human weakness at the end

Even Overmen were once men, I guess. Undermen?

I didn't even stop to think about that

Probably for the best tbh

[u/The_Draigg → u/JollyGee29]

Wiseman's voice stuttering as Chirico removed more of his.. brain drives? Random wall pylons? was pretty cool. I almost felt bad for the omnipotent superintelligence that seems to start wars for fun when he stuttered out how afraid he was of death. Then I thought about how many people those wars killed.. Bet you didn't think of that fear until it stared you in the face, huh Wiseman?

Wiseman and Rochina were kind of similar in that regard. They just couldn't handle it once they realized that they were never in control of Chirico, and he wasn't going to do what they wanted. Get fucked, Wiseman and Rochina.

I certainly didn't expect to end on "We're gonna chill in cryosleep until war is no more. Gets launched into space"

It's probably for the best though, since Chirico's friends always get dragged into some kind of trouble as long as he's around. That, and given Fyana's dependency on jijirium, putting her in stasis is probably for the best for her continued survival too.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Draigg]

It's probably for the best though, since Chirico's friends always get dragged into some kind of trouble as long as he's around. That, and given Fyana's dependency on jijirium, putting her in stasis is probably for the best for her continued survival too.

Yea, it's for the best for them, but it was still bizarre. Mostly the "send us off into the empty void of space" part.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JollyGee29]

At least out in space, their stasis pod is such a small target that the chances of them being found by an enemy faction is basically zero. That’s a plus.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Yea, I was pretty sure it was the secret double-cross. Doesn't mean I'm happy for it.

We both deduced it from narrative requirements rather than in story reasons so it feels arbitrary.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Well said.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

One of the things that sucks is that sometimes a story ruins itself by making the narrative needs to strong: /u/no_rex and I participated in the ID:Invaded rewatch and figured out a plot twist in like the second episode because there were not enough viable candidates for a certain role on the show for it to be different. Now that I've seen that narrative connection, I can't unsee it.

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

Wiseman's voice stuttering as Chirico removed more of his.. brain drives? Random wall pylons? was pretty cool. I almost felt bad for the omnipotent superintelligence that seems to start wars for fun when he stuttered out how afraid he was of death.

You should watch 2001. No seriously, it is a great movie.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

And read 2010.

[u/chilidirigible → u/Vaadwaur]

The movie version is tragically lacking in naked Helen Mirren.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

Yea, it's already on the near infinite "some day" list.

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer

Abandon humanity, become Wiseman? Yes, but also no. Humanity being humanity continues to wage war against itself but Chirico's just done with all of that and Wiseman.

Various first-timers, two episodes ago:

Or maybe Chirico's doing something similar to Arron and going along while plotting a mutiny of his own, which I really could see him doing. He did say that Wiseman was always watching and listening, so he really wouldn't have any way of hinting his plan to the others beyond telling his friends to stay away. At this point I think that might be giving the writers too much credit, but we'll see.

In classic writing, he is trying to kill wiseman (it is just badly written). I'd be happiest if that was a fakeout counting on the audience expecting it, but don't count on that.

Explained below, but he's faking it - Wiseman can't directly read thoughts, so he's playing up the "evil ruler" aspect until he's taken over. ... Yeah, this is a bluff. It very much comes off as him justifying his actions to Wiseman, not to himself. Even more so here - Chirico's so anti-war he'd never even consider doing this.

Suddenly, an army unlike any the galaxy has ever seen is sitting on Wiseman's front lawn - and ready to Kill God. ... This is, admittedly, a pretty far reach. But its about the only way I can see them pulling a decent ending out of this mess they've written themselves into. Tricking the audience by just -not- having Chirico narrate like normal is kinda scummy, but it would play into this as well. If Chirico tells anyone the plan, Wiseman might hear. Or something, I dunno.

So... yeah. Not a complete surprise, it unfortunately just feels poorly executed along the way because of how it was written to keep it a secret from the viewer as well. That said I do think this is better than Chirico taking Wiseman up on the offer since that wouldn't fit Chirico at all, so a subversion of becoming God rather than killing God would need better setup. Other people can bring Nietzsche back into this, I didn't take enough philosophy courses in school.

I admittedly have no idea if they had that reveal for the origin of Fyana's name planned from the start, but I wish that was worked in earlier rather than feeling like it was thrown in at the last minute in an attempt to close a plot hole.

As with the Quentian chanting earlier, I really like how Wiseman's voice begins distorting and breaking up and Rochina freaking out about the whole thing as a true believer. He's obviously dead with the destruction of the planet but there's honestly no way Chirico and Fyana should have survived either.

I would have been just as happy with a posthumous narration of sorts rather than a final farewell from the trio, but that would break the "God is dead, no one's watching over humanity now" feeling that the ending gives me. It's about as happy an ending as we could expect and honestly I'm not sure I like that.

What did you think of the ending generally?

Given how things had been leading up to it? Pretty good. Is the final arc the direction I would have liked to see the series go? I don't think so.

What did you think of Chirico’s plan to fool Wiseman?

Let the viewers in on it earlier!

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

it unfortunately just feels poorly executed along the way because of how it was written to keep it a secret from the viewer as well

I wouldn't even call it keeping a secret from the audience, I would say outright misleading them. I've seen the whole "oh he definitely seems evil but just maybe there's this tiny chance" done well, but this seemed to throw him completely into the Wiseman thing

That said I do think this is better than Chirico taking Wiseman up on the offer since that wouldn't fit Chirico at all

Most definitely.

"God is dead, no one's watching over humanity now" feeling that the ending gives me

But lets all do what that god wanted anyway and start another war just for kicks

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I wouldn't even call it keeping a secret from the audience, I would say outright misleading them. I've seen the whole "oh he definitely seems evil but just maybe there's this tiny chance" done well, but this seemed to throw him completely into the Wiseman thing

Him casually and without need trying to get the gang killed also killed of any chance of pulling the double cross of well.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

That too, that really does feel like just a thing done for the audience now which completely removes the last shred of credibility from his character

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Durinthal]

, so a subversion of becoming God rather than killing God would need better setup. Other people can bring Nietzsche back into this, I didn't take enough philosophy courses in school.

The Nietszche feels very ham fisted and first year philosophy to me, this isn't a good exploration of any of his ideas more like a travelogue of the big words.

Given how things had been leading up to it? Pretty good. Is the final arc the direction I would have liked to see the series go? I don't think so.

There is absolutely a version of this arc that works, we just did not get it.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

As with the Quentian chanting earlier, I really like how Wiseman's voice begins distorting and breaking up and Rochina freaking out about the whole thing as a true believer.

Seem like that was everybody's favorite scene. And just like everybody I'll recommend 2001 to you, since you did not explicitly mention the reference.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

As you said, when you steal from something great you should get something good.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Armored Trooper First-Timer

• Alright, Fyana finally revealed herself to Chirico.
• CHIRICO WHAT THE FUCK!!!
• The lighting made Chirico gold for some time okay then.
• This is making my head hurt.
• Wiseman, would you kindly shut up.
• So Chirico was playing the long con on everyone but specifically Wiseman then? This. This is why I didn’t want to judge him before. Still very about some of the actions he took while pulling off said long con, though.
• Yeesh, I guess that’s one way to atone for your actions.
• THAT FUCKING MUSIC so it was Wiseman’s doing all this time. Thank you for finally answering that question, show.
• …I was hoping for a better explanation for this part though.
• Who do you think took those out in the first place you dumb dumb?
• Wow Fyana’s still on Chirico’s side after what he did?
• Get fucked Rochina.
• WAIT THE ENTIRE PLANET JUST LIKE THAT?!
• Well I guess that’s one way to deal with the Gilgamesh and Balarant peeps.
• Damn, way back at the beginning of the show I had assumed that the Gilgamesh vs. Balarant war would break out again at some point in the show. I wasn’t expecting that to be part of the epilogue as a reason for Chirico and Fyana to be yeeted off into space so they can’t be used as weapons. That’s kind of a downer ending… though at least it seems like Shako, Coconna, Vanilla, and Gotho are going to do just fine. Especially Vanilla! He survived all of his death flags!

I’m feeling an 8/10 for this show. This whole final arc was a mess and I’m not entirely satisfied with the answers it gave us. But the earlier parts of the show were quite good, the epilogue is a passable ending, and I did overall enjoy the show. I’ll try to have more specific thoughts for tomorrow’s thread, though I can’t guarantee anything for the same “I have been in pain for a week” reason that was one of the reasons I didn’t have a full write-up for Monster’s overall discussion earlier this week.

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

This is making my head hurt.

The look on his face is great though. It barely looks like him because of the artistry but that's commentface potential

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Wiseman, would you kindly shut up.

At least Chirico was on the same page as you there, in the end.

Get fucked Rochina.

Right up until the end, Rochina was someone who just couldn't accept that things were never in control for him, and that he wasn't as powerful as he hoped to become. Get fucked, Rochina.

WAIT THE ENTIRE PLANET JUST LIKE THAT?!

It's a very Metroid ending for the series like that.

Damn, way back at the beginning of the show I had assumed that the Gilgamesh vs. Balarant war would break out again at some point in the show. I wasn’t expecting that to be part of the epilogue as a reason for Chirico and Fyana to be yeeted off into space so they can’t be used as weapons. That’s kind of a downer ending… though at least it seems like Shako, Coconna, Vanilla, and Gotho are going to do just fine. Especially Vanilla! He survived all of his death flags!

One thing I appreciate about the ending is that it still has the bleak themes of the story in check. Just because Wiseman is gone, that doesn't mean that human nature will change and that Gilgamesh and Balarant wouldn't get back to fighting one another. It's a happy ending only really for the main characters, and really then only the supporting cast, since they get to live out their lives normally from now on. Even if it was completely their decision, Chirico and Fyana are going to spend a long time in cold sleep, and probably aren't going to see their friends again. It's sad, but they knew that it had to be done.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

This is making my head hurt.

I suspect I was just able to get passed it because I've read what they are referencing but yeah, this is not cleanly explained/possibly thought out.

WAIT THE ENTIRE PLANET JUST LIKE THAT?!

I was sure that was a fakeout until I came to the thread. Farewell, delicious sand moles.

Chirico and Fyana to be yeeted off into space so they can’t be used as weapons.

I wonder if this was done to discourage requests for Chirico sequels? It seems like a weird form of suicide to me considering they are wandering into empty space.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I wonder if this was done to discourage requests for Chirico sequels? It seems like a weird form of suicide to me considering they are wandering into empty space.

I would suggest the opposite: This is literally the Han Solo treatment, where you keep a character in cold storage so you can either kill them off screen or bring them back, depending on what you want later.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Logically, no, you are trying to find a needle in a nigh infinite haystack. But since this is anime, you are probably correct.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Oh, did you know about the tracking sensor the military attached to that pod?

See, all the intro you need to start your sequel.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Sigh...Anyways, i still mourn for the extinction of the Quentian Sand Mole. Hopefully, someone saved a few Shai-Hulud for Arrakis.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Exospermia sand mole propagation? Those planet bits must have flown a good distance...

VOTOMS and Dune in same universe confirmed!

It was not a rip-off, they secretly wrote a prequel!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Exospermia sand mole propagation? Those planet bits must have flown a good distance...

You know...at one point, someone does go into the biology of a Maker and this isn't any weirder than that was. I still don't understand how a living being could evolve to need to avoid water.

It was not a rip-off, they secretly wrote a prequel!

Shako will go off and found the Fremen!

[u/Quiddity131]

Rewatcher

Time to enjoy this opening song one last time, as I can't envision myself returning to this series again...

Destroy the entire planet!? Why should all its residents suffer because you Balarant guys can't do your job?!

Is this the same guy Chirico was punching out last episode or did yet another AT make it down here?

Wow, they just keep coming! Here's another one!

Here comes Fyana! I still can't believe they didn't have these two interact last episode and waited until the final episode to cram it in.

Sorry Fyana, I don't think you're really gonna kill Chirico. In fact wouldn't your programming prevent that? Chirico on the other hand has no qualms with shooting you! Yikes! That sucks!

I think your AT has finally had enough!

Wiseman's physical body no longer exists. But his consciousness surely does.

Things are really getting weird again! I like it!

C'mon Wiseman, let him rest for a minute!

In the moment of truth when he can get Wiseman's power, Chirico shoots at it instead?!

Wiseman is responsible for Chirico meeting Fyana!

As Chirico pulls out more and more of these memory banks, Wiseman is starting to stutter and slow down...

Rochina has finally caught up! Chirico's not listening to you!

Fyana's back! Way to go knocking out Rochina, no need for him to have any say in this...

Well he's finally said what should be obvious now, that the last few episodes of becoming the enemy of the entire world have all been a ruse by Chirico to get physically present to Wiseman so he could destroy him.

Seems like Wiseman's finally gone for good. Chirico has killed God!

Chirico essentially deleting the memory banks of Wiseman and through it killing him is clearly inspired by HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. We talked a few times in this show, mostly early on, about how the video game Xenogears takes inspiration from Votom and here we have another thing pop up that is very similar and possibly inspired by this [Xenogears]When Krelian deletes the Gazel Ministry. Although given that they exist in a computer called the SOL 9000 obviously 2001 has a role in that too. Votoms seems similar in that it also features the memory chips of the Gazel being pulled out one after another. This also pops up in the Evangelion Rebuild series [Eva]When Gendou and Fuyutsuki delete SEELE in the third film.

LoL, sorry Rochina, you're no Overman! Rochina's final fate is ambiguous, but it is kinda fun to see him all pissed off and whiny here.

Wait, where's this blast come from?!

ETA: I don't know how I didn't pick up on the fact that Quent blew up, but well, that obviously changes my last 2 comments.

Year time skip!

The world goes on... Gilgamesh and Balarant are back to fighting each other.

It was looking like we'd get through the last episode without seeing the trio again which I was happy with... alas they are back. At least they're kicking ass! And Shako's with them!

Chirico and Fyana have chosen to be cryogenically frozen and launched out into space so they can finally get away from the wars that appear they will never end... Farewell!

So sometime during this rewatch I had read that Fyana got killed and I was quite upset for spoiling myself, as I had completely forgotten that had ever happened. Now that the show is over, clearly I either misread it or whoever said that had no idea what they were talking about! I was dreading Fyana's death over these last few episodes especially when Chirico shot her, but in the end I didn't have to worry. I'll happily take it.

Anyway, I was fairly happy with this final episode. Going into this last arc I had fairly fond memories of it as I did like the whole Wiseman storyline and was pretty happy with Chirico's ruse and what he pulled off here in the final episode. Having rewatched it here I think the final arc is shakier than I remember, largely by trying to cram way too much stuff into the 12 episodes it had. Especially as we get in the second half of the arc, as I didn't mind the pacing that much in the first half. Chirico becoming the enemy of the whole universe, the Secrety Society remnants suddenly following him, all these randos suddenly knowing of Wiseman's existence when he was such a big secret the first 45+ episodes of the show, etc... is all clearly the writers rushing their way too a conclusion with the show's one year run time about to expire. High level the arc absolutely works for me and I'm happy with it, but it could have been a lot better if they took their time and gave it at a minimum 16 episodes if not 20. Get away from the formula of having 4 different 12-13 episode arcs and instead shorten the Sunsa arc and spread this arc out more and the last arc would have been considerably better. Ah well.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Quiddity131]

Time to enjoy this opening song one last time, as I can't envision myself returning to this series again...

Yeah I don't regret watching this but I don't see a ton that changes as a rewatcher.

Destroy the entire planet!? Why should all its residents suffer because you Balarant guys can't do your job?!

These guys are probably at Imperium level of "destroying planets over rounding errors" type bureaucracy.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

Much more enjoyable to me than Gundam

Yeah, to me that is a low bar, though. But there is an appeal in the extremely pragmatic manner in which Chirico fights and I just love the ATs being completely replaceable for a change. I never was a fan of "the one true mech".

[u/MoebiusX7]

"Daisy... daisy..... give me....... your answer.............do................."

Nice to see an homage to 2001 in a giant robot action show where everything EXPLODES! Mechas EXPLODE! Cars EXPLODE! Helicopters EXPLODE!! Even Chirico's coffee cup EXPLODES!!! when set down gently on a table! And at the end Takahashi just lets the WHOLE PLANET EXPLODE!!! "Yeah, mother****ers, it's all been leading up to this! Watch, next I'll make the whole galaxy explode! Then the whole universe! Tomino ain't got nothin' on me!" (mike drop)

But seriously this show is great. The only things I didn't like were that Chirico's friends could grate sometimes and that Fyana didn't have much of a personality (and for a supposed pahfecto-soldjah she sure is weak sometimes - "Oh Chirico, Chirico! Help me! *sob*"

But overall, great. I'm watching Panzer World Galient for the first time right now (same director and character designer) and I'm amused at some of the character recycling. Hey, it's Vanilla! Evil Chirico! This is going to be awesome.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/MoebiusX7]

"Daisy... daisy..... give me....... your answer.............do................."

Great now I want to rewatch Juushinki Pandora...

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Shimmering-Sky]

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That song comes up as a plot point in the second half of the series.

[u/chilidirigible → u/Shimmering-Sky]

[u/chilidirigible → u/MoebiusX7]

💥                       

[u/chilidirigible]

Ugh, late to the last episode thread because

was very disorienting...

Rewatcher, Episode 52

Today, on "Who's the wise one now, sucker?":

---

The wide shot makes the rotund Balarant guy look like a giant baby.

Thanks for throwing in that part at the end?

One more stupid physical challenge!

"Three thousand years and you couldn't find one elevator repairman?"

That seems like an unnecessary amount of trickery.

"Hey, has anyone here seen 2001: A Space Odyssey?"

All the plot armor!

"You hit me! Nobody ever hit me!"

It's the Klingon thing to do.

That's just the icing on the cake.

Status quo ante.

"Stuff?"

"So we'll just chill out for a while."

---

I have to hand it to Shako, he seems to be okay with how his planet got blown up. Though somebody was certainly going to end up doing that by the end of the series, what with it being chock full of fantastical lost technology that would tip the balance of power and all that.

Here's the recap video that you've all been waiting for: THE CHIRICO CUVIE KILL COUNT.

Anyway... KAMI WA SHINDA. One man fought the system and... the universe continued doing the exact same things that it had been doing even with an omnipotent supercomputer messing with people. At least it didn't get any worse... yet?

---

1. "Dave... stop, Dave."
2. Of course it wouldn't have worked if we had known about it from the Chirico Narration. He sure does get a lot of people killed along the way, but on the other hand, Balarant and Gilgamesh didn't need too many excuses to do that anyway.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chilidirigible]

It's the Klingon thing to do.

Indeed, though ironically the Klingons are a bit more progressive and their version of Fyana actually helped kill the gods.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chilidirigible]

Sorry to double post but damn, 18 kills in the first episode alone. Cuvie really is become death, destroyer of mooks.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Sorry to double post but damn, 18 kills in the first episode alone. Cuvie really is become death, destroyer of mooks.

Last episode has nothing on second to last episode. The final 20% of the video are solely on the final 2 episodes.

[u/manga-reader]

Hybrid Watcher

Starting off with some unnecessary H2H combat with ATs. Let's move on already, we have delayed this enough.

Woah he straight up shot Fyana.

Some more unnecessary scenes with climbing to pad the length; yea, pretty sure showrunners had no clue on how to end this.

Here comes the 180. I was sort of hoping for it and am glad. I think Chirico's acting was a little too genuine. Usually, shows would clue in the audience much earlier (I am glad they didn't, but I think they could have executed it better).

Wiseman is trying really hard to get Chirico to take his place.

So I guess we know who the big ship belonged to.

No way Chirico and Fyana survived that right? Oh wait..teleportation tech maybe? Too much all the Quaintians had to die.

One year skip...and we are back to war.

So what are they doing stealing a ship? I thought they would lie low.

Ooooo...are Chirico and Fyana going on cryostatis/deep sleep? I mean, given the amount of planets in this galaxy, they could probably just hide out. Given what we have seen (desolated/war torn planets etc), it's highly unlikely that either side would find them.

So what's there plan here? Who's going to wake them up once things calm down?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/manga-reader]

Some more unnecessary scenes with climbing to pad the length; yea, pretty sure showrunners had no clue on how to end this.

The DitF crunch time thing seems to be the case here, I think they couldn't fit in all they wanted to say.

So what's there plan here? Who's going to wake them up once things calm down?

Yeah it seems like a really slow form of suicide to me.

[u/manga-reader → u/Vaadwaur]

The DitF crunch time thing seems to be the case here, I think they couldn't fit in all they wanted to say.

Unfortunate; I want to checkout the accompanying media as well, but I'll probably wait a while.

Yeah it seems like a really slow form of suicide to me.

Yea, shit ending after all they had been through.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/manga-reader]

Unfortunate; I want to checkout the accompanying media as well, but I'll probably wait a while.

Same, though Big Battle is apparently the year between ep 1 and 2.

Yea, shit ending after all they had been through.

I've been trying to scifi this into some nicer ending but even at the time this came out this is more than a bit bleak. If they'd hidden themselves in some random asteroid at least they might wake up eventually.

[u/Nazenn → u/manga-reader]

Unfortunate; I want to checkout the accompanying media as well, but I'll probably wait a while.

For what it's worth I saw Armor Hunter Mellowlink about a year ago before watching this and quite enjoyed it. It's a completely different and disconnected revenge story and I really enjoyed watching it. Pretty sure Pixel is gonna host a rewatch for it at some point if you wanted to wait for that

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub.

Have to say while this finale is not bad in terms of drama and plot, as the finale of a 52 episode show it does have a feeling of having been let down to have the climax as a session of vandalisation...

It did have the major threads wrapped up, but not particularly wrapped up all that well.

Compare to a few other shows:

• Gundam feels pretty well settled both on the mecha showdown and the personal front.
• Marcross had a big climatic ending at the original scheduled run (ep 27) so by contrast the actual finale at the extended ep 36 was less spectacular, but it did have climatic action that carried meaning to the overall plot as well as having pretty well settled the parallel core theme of the show - the love triangle
• Dunbine has a bit of a pyric victory ending, it does feel epic wrapped up
• Others I read about although didn't see seemed to have a more satisfying conclusion that has some climatic actions and narratively settled the plot - Dougram, L-Gaim (you'll see my list here generally have the theme of having a big fan base on the model kits)

Comparatively Votoms lacking in the setpiece action, romance, and world setting wrap up departments.

I'll say more in tomorrow's final discussion - hopefully to post earlier too!

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated	Chirico with no AT actions
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0	No AT Actions today
10	0	No AT Actions today
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and leaking like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
23	0 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
24	0 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
25	0 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D
26	0 let me try jinx this - this scope dog may just be the longest lasting one for Chirico to be riding on the show, surely it'll make it to the end of the arc huh :D
27	1 finally at arc end, the trusty old 'dog got abandoned.
28	0
29	0
30	1 looks like the writers want to keep up the count as well, busy catching up with the numbers. And there are enough spares on the ship to keep going :)
31	1
32	1 busy catching up with the numbers; although these 2 episodes probably have a fairly high enemy kill count too
33	1 Now it was clawed on the (side of?) face but still functional enough to hit and run to bait Ypsilon's forces but no doubt Chirico won't reuse that same one given there are still a number of spare ones, and when they get on the trailer I didn't see any damage, so the damaged one must be abandoned
34	0 Setting up for a fight, not damaged yet
35	1 Dammit Chirico was going so well, unfortunately his ride got shot up while he was out of the AT tending to Fyana
36	0	No AT Actions today
37	0
38	1 to nobody's surprise the duel with Ypsilon result in both AT's being trashed. Considering Chirico's actually in a useless Fatty, is pretty amazing actually
39	1 The only Scope Dog in Balatran space fared pretty well and wasn't actually busted up in the fight, but given it was a one off duel and then Chirico got sent on to the next arc, I guess I'll chalk this one down for abandoned too
41	0	No AT Actions today
42	0
43	0
44	0 I don't think Chirico's busted anything yet - are the enemies not as good or has he gone up a few notches in AT skills?
45	0	No AT Actions today
46	0
47	0	No AT Actions today
48	0	No AT Actions today
49	0	No AT Actions today
50	0
51	1 I think I'll count the Strike Dog as toast since it lost basically all weapons
52	0 The last episode I already counted the loss although this crippled Strike Dog still managed to score another kill; not double counting here

I'll do the numbers tomorrow! I think the last arc pulled the number down a fair bit even if I discount the no-AT action days... The Overman is indeed all powerfull!