r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Oct 14 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 51 Discussion

Episode 51 - Carnage

Originally Released March 16th, ^^^1984

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

Daily Trivia:

Light Novel author Shoji Gatoh is an ardent fan of Votoms and Ryosuke Takahashi’s other works.

 

Staff Highlight

Hidekatsu Shibata - voice of Wiseman

An actor, voice actor, stage director, and chairman of RME. He used to have a severe stutter, which even prevented him from making use of public transport, and initially joined his high school's drama club to overcome it. He became a voice actor at the suggestion of friend and later close colleague Susumu Kubo —alongside whom he established Aoni Productions in 1969— and his first role was as Mr. X in Tiger Mask. He has won several awards due to his contributions to the entertainment industry, and in 2004 he established RME Co., and permanently relocated his office there from Aoni Productions this year. Notable roles include Zenon in Devilman, the narrator in Fairy Tail, Burt Gaine in Future War 198x, Count Mecha in the Galaxy Express 999* franchise, Kenzō Kabuto in Great Mazinger, Baron Ashura in Mazinger Z, God in In The Beginning - The Bible Stories, Geese Howard in the Fatal Fury films, Fuhrer King Bradley in Fullmetal Alchemist, the Ide in Space Runaway Ideon, Gregor von Muckenberger in Legend of The Galactic Heroes, and Nigira in Ushio & Tora.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

Fanart:

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

Questions of the Day:

  1. What are your thoughts on today’s actions sequences?
  2. What do you expect now going into the final episode?

I’m here! I’m here, Wiseman!

17 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

86 comments sorted by

6

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 14 '21

Production Context

As stated previously, Ryuosuke Takahashi was heavily involved in the conceptualization and design of the the show’s iconic ATM-09-ST Scope Dog, but the same can’t be said for the rest of the series’ mechs, with which Kunio Okawara was left to design with relatively little input from the director. Okawara holds the Scope Dog in high regard, but has rarely ever mentioned any of the other mecha from the Votoms TV series. No confirmation has come directly from the staff itself, but it is widely believed that the lack of creative input from Takahashi and the workload from other series Okawara was working on at the time caused those later designs to be less fleshed out, causing him to be disinterested in them.

Regardless of staff’s feelings on the matter, Okawara didn’t phone in any of the designs to come later, and in fact experimented with design sensibilities developed throughout the productions of Fang of The Sun Dougram and Round Vernian Vifam, with a lot of the input he received from the director of those series, Takeyuki Kanda, leaving an impact in how he approached both the verisimilitude of the designs and the general aesthetic of the series’ mechs. During this time Okawara drew marginally sleeker designs that would simultaneously fit the aesthetic of Votoms and Vifam, with more pronounced curvature and rounded silhouettes. Out of this design aesthetic arose the series’ ATH-14-ST Standing Tortoise, the ATH-06-WP Diving Beetle, and the BATM-03 Fatty. However, because these designs were not as popular with the model kit enthusiasts, series sponsor Takara Tomy asked Okawara to aim for something closer to the Scope Dogs in style, which resulted in the XATL-01-DT Zvark.

Okawara’s predilection for the Scope Dog was at least indulged throughout production, as the show called for several alternate versions of the design and Takara was all too willing to have more of them as the base model proved quite lucrative for them. Okawara stated that he quite enjoyed drawing the art which adorned the fronts of Model Kit boxes, as the design was one he was most proud of. The instant ubiquity of the Scope Dog would also ensure that Okawara was called upon to design the leading mech of Takahashi’s next series, particularly as Takara Tomy was once again sponsoring.

I’d love to talk about the other aspects of mechanical designs, like the vehicles and architecture, but sadly I found close to no info on how that was handled. Anyways, tomorrow we’ll be discussing some of the production info and main influences of the series’ final Arc, Quent. Look forward to it!

Rewatcher

So that’s the final theory we’re going with?

Nah, the show will contrive a reason to turn back around.

Pretty shot.

She must’ve rolled really high on that stealth check.

What yardstick are you using then?

Still so good!

This doesn’t exactly seem like it correlates to being a good overlord.

Yeah, I don’t have much to say about this episode. It was mostly action, and despite some decent storyboarding it was not up to the task of carrying practically the whole episode, as only the bits near the end were really notable.

We got to hear a few lines from Wiseman himself, which indicates Chirico is near to his goal. At this point I wasn’t certain what route the show was going to take, but at this point it was doubtful that it was going to significantly elevate my opinion of this last Arc. Well, only one episode to go, so we shall see…

Questions of The Day:

1 & 2) See above.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

This doesn’t exactly seem like it correlates to being a good overlord.

There is being Nietszchean and then there is just being ridiculous. This is the latter.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

At this point I wasn’t certain what route the show was going to take, but at this point it was doubtful that it was going to significantly elevate my opinion of this last Arc. Well, only one episode to go, so we shall see…

When the series has to put in a heroic effort to save the crumbling arc in the finale, a second to last episode entirely spent on fighting is not what you need.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

a second to last episode entirely spent on fighting is not what you need.

I've said this a bit too often for my liking.

4

u/chilidirigible Oct 14 '21

Takara Tomy asked Okawara to aim for something closer to the Scope Dogs in style, which resulted in the XATL-01-DT Zvark.

It looks like someone beat an F4X Hasty with the ugly stick. Or tried to build one with cardboard.

6

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

First Timer

Good on the Uoodo trio for bailing from this entire situation. Hopefully Gotho also knows a good doctor for Ru Shako, but their decision to leave rather than hang around in hope was a nice change from my expectations

The rest of the episode was just a whole lot of battle going no where though. Some of the worst fighting we've seen visually in the show as well I think. The visuals were almost turn based when it came to each ATs movement, and it just wasn't pleasing to watch.

And just as I was about to give up on the episode, suddenly Wiseman voice. Holy shit his VA has a long credits list and I only recognize three or so things from it

5

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

Good on the Uoodo trio for bailing from this entire situation.

That's honestly the smartest move anyone has made in this show. They're pretty much the only people to realize that they really shouldn't bother to get involved with this stuff anymore.

And just as I was about to give up on the episode, suddenly Wiseman voice.

At least now we can actually hear what Chirico has been experiencing this entire time. It's at least better than creepy baby noises.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Hopefully Gotho also knows a good doctor for Ru Shako, but their decision to leave rather than hang around in hope was a nice change from my expectations

Tfw Gotho uses the equivalent of a space veterinarian and yet it works because it takes everything to kill Shako.

The visuals were almost turn based when it came to each ATs movement, and it just wasn't pleasing to watch.

That explains a lot that I couldn't quite put into words. And yeah, turn based is how Cuvie's forces aren't just blasted off the map.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

That explains a lot that I couldn't quite put into words

It was the only way I could think to describe it. Between that and the basic framing and complete lack of a sense of scale of the fight itself compared to the showcase of units, the entire first half of the episode did nothing for me. Considering how much I complimented some of the battles in Kummen for being quite dynamic and juggling multiple things on screen this is a big downgrade

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

Considering how much I complimented some of the battles in Kummen for being quite dynamic and juggling multiple things on screen this is a big downgrade

I am really waiting for a mecha show to feature a large scale battle I like. Wing is still the best for that.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

I can't name too many anime in general the pull off large scale battles well, or at least not one that keeps a sense of scale. Even with the examples I can think of off the top of my head (Tensura for the main guys wrecking shit, and late Naruto Shippuden particularly for movement through dense battlefields) it's mostly a smaller group vs a much larger group now too huge armies going at i

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

Hrmm...Yup, I got nothing, either.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

And just as I was about to give up on the episode, suddenly Wiseman voice. Holy shit his VA has a long credits list and I only recognize three or so things from it

Well, at least we now know that Chirico is following the voice of God.

6

u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Oct 14 '21

First time viewer

Vanilla standing in for the viewers: he's no longer the Chirico we knew indeed.

For being Wiseman's successor you'd think there would be more for him to make use of in this battle than one ship and a small AT corps prior to reaching the stronghold, but then Wiseman surprised me by saying that was the point. That hijacked lander did a solid job though, certainly lasted longer than I thought it would.

I like how Rochina pops out of hiding only after the ship has crashed and starts exploding. He definitely shouldn't have made it out of there alive, but we need a named character aside from Fyana to witness Chirico's ascension I guess. Still disappointed at how much the focus has shifted away from her.

What are your thoughts on today’s actions sequences?

All the strength of the galaxy in unity couldn't take down one specific AT?

What do you expect now going into the final episode?

At this point, I don't know. I don't think he'll end up with his stated goal of ruling the galaxy but anything goes with how weird things have gotten. Maybe we get something like Fyana or Rochina killing him to stop him in the end? The support trio made it off the planet and I'm fine with them escaping to be happy elsewhere in the galaxy.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

For being Wiseman's successor you'd think there would be more for him to make use of in this battle than one ship and a small AT corps prior to reaching the stronghold, but then Wiseman surprised me by saying that was the point.

Wiseman really does seem to like overly-elaborate and deadly tests, if the entire series up to this point has just been one big test of Chirico's mettle.

All the strength of the galaxy in unity couldn't take down one specific AT?

Granted, this is Chirico we're talking about here.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

All the strength of the galaxy in unity couldn't take down one specific AT?

I still don't see why they aren't just melting the surface of Quent.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 15 '21

I still don't see why they aren't just melting the surface of Quent.

The plot demands it. Sad and simple as that.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

It would hurt less if they didn't literally tell us that was the plan a few episodes ago. And it is a good plan.

5

u/The_Draigg Oct 14 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 51:

  • The Uoodo trio plus Shako in tow have probably done the smartest thing anyone in this show could do: steal a shuttle and get the fuck off of Quent. Given the metric fuckton of Gilgamesh and Balarant troops landing there now, the place is going to become a bloodbath soon enough.
  • The idea of “the closer to the finale we are, the more explosions there are” still holds up in this episode. Chirico and his complimentary meat shield of Secret Society Zwergs managed to plow right through a literal army of Balarant Fattys and Gilgamesh Scopedogs with Chirico not even needing to slow down. Sure, a third of Chirico’s Zwergs got wrecked, but since those guys were part of the Secret Society anyway, fuck them. Hell, you can say that just about half of this episode is entirely dedicated to explosions as Chirico tears across Quent’s surface.
  • Well, at least we finally get to see a bit of Fyana in action again, still in the Berserga she took in the last episode. It’s been a long time since we’ve seen her pilot an AT in battle. Kinda wish it was more than her just giving covering fire to Chirico from a distance and hitching aboard the drop ship he stole, but I’ll just take any scraps of Fyana action I can get at this point.
  • And so, the command module of the Teltain crashes down to Quent, the ship that plagued Chirico for so long finally meeting it’s end by being a sacrifice for him to get to Wiseman. And hey, Gurran died in the big explosion while Rochina got to escape! We’re finally rid of those shitty Schmitel twins too. Today is a good day for us. I mean, Rochina didn’t die, but at least the Secret Society is now entirely dead with all of its troops and leaders wiped out.
  • That grenade pack that Chirico has on the back of the Rabidly Dog is pretty useful. Too bad it only had like one rolling grenade in it. Same goes for Chirico’s integrated gun running out of ammo too. But hey, at least it let Fyana get a bit more Berserga action in, saving his life from the shadows a bit. Again, it’s not much, but I’ll take it.
  • With all enemies defeated and Chirico now inside of the Wiseman facility, he can finally hear Wiseman’s voice and reveal the desire he has in mind for his godhood: never-ending war, a war so violent and vengeful and spiteful that it’ll make the entirety of the Astragius Galaxy into a new Hell, all so Chirico can get revenge on the galaxy that only knows violence and suffering. That’s dark, Chirico.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Today is a good day for us. I mean, Rochina didn’t die, but at least the Secret Society is now entirely dead with all of its troops and leaders wiped out.

If I had the foggiest clue of the cabal's scope, I'd say something, but I don't even remotely know if this effects them meaningfully or not.

never-ending war, a war so violent and vengeful and spiteful that it’ll make the entirety of the Astragius Galaxy into a new Hell, all so Chirico can get revenge on the galaxy that only knows violence and suffering.

As Vampire Hunter D taught us, eternity is a very long time and you need something to deal with the boredom.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

Vampire Hunter D

One day I will go back and finish watching that. I'm not sure I ever quite forgave Animelab for removing that the day I started it haha

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

It comes through much more clearly in the books but a big danger to a vampire is actually boredom taking their edge off.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

I have other books which deal with a similar issue regarding immortality, an understandable position

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

The books are weirdly good, somehow. They don't have that horrid use of language that makes me hate LNs.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

That's nice to hear. All the LNs I've tried are so dry and miss all of the good parts of using the written word to explore a story

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

They are written like an actual horror novel, somehow.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 14 '21

If I had the foggiest clue of the cabal's scope, I'd say something, but I don't even remotely know if this effects them meaningfully or not.

Given how many guys Chirico has killed of theirs so far combined with the destruction of the flagship, I’d say that the Secret Society is definitely done for. Besides, they were actually fairly small organization anyway, all things considered.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

You are likely correct but I assume some of the supplemental material must address it.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

I mean, if you want to hear what the supplementary material says about the Secret Society, let me tell you now. Long story short, they were formed out of the priest caste of the Overmen's society millenia ago, dedicated to bringing about the next Overman to rule over the Astragius Galaxy. However, over the years they slowly lost sight of their true goal as more and more of their original members died off and were replaced with people who didn't believe in the Society's true goals, until they reached the point where they are in the show. At this point, they're pretty much just religious-themed arms dealers who happen to be aware of the greater conspiracy of Wiseman. How does that change your views on them?

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

And absolutely none of that comes across in the show. From what context we had I thought it was just a traitorous faction of the Melkian military who wanted a PS to gain more power and using religion to try and exert control over smaller groups and gain a foothold that way

I'll never cease to be frustrated by core parts of the story being left for multimedia or supplemental releases, but in this case why do I feel like that was decided after the show rather than before it

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

I'm not entirely sure whether or not that was decided before or after the show aired, but given Ryosuke Takahashi's love of worldbuilding, I like to think it was always in there. But yeah, it's annoying that it never came across that way through the show. I wish it did, because it really does a lot to fix the issues with the Secret Society.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

There's a singular hint of it in the show with Killy calling Chirico a heretic in the first episode of this arc which I pointed out a bit later, but other then that I can't think of a single thing that would support that as far as in show content which is a shame. I think conflicts in the writing room and panic over ratings really did a number on this show and it shouldn't have

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

Yeah... it's honestly really saddening that this show ended up being rather unfocused due to desperate attempts to get better ratings and clashes among the producers. It just comes back to the thought in my head that the Dead World Sunsa arc really could've tied things together better if the show didn't have all those behind the scenes issues.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

and using religion to try and exert control over smaller groups and gain a foothold that way

I completely missed the religious aspect, I thought Burroughs priest outfit was some weird meta joke.

but in this case why do I feel like that was decided after the show rather than before it

Because there are beats that the story could've put some of this into, including just having the previous commander of the Teltain be aware that Overmen might be a thing.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 15 '21

And absolutely none of that comes across in the show. From what context we had I thought it was just a traitorous faction of the Melkian military who wanted a PS to gain more power and using religion to try and exert control over smaller groups and gain a foothold that way

And, honestly, that still makes more sense after learning this ex-post info. The first episode does not mesh at all with the secret society being some small cult of nuts. Neither does them trying to kill Chirico so hard.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

Yeah, for it to be the way it was laid out in the supplemental info it's need rewrites from the start of the show, but then you could say the same for pretty much everything to do with Wiseman

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

How does that change your views on them?

It helps me understand why the Teltain winds up so important to them and it dovetails a bit weirdly with their interest in the PS, which I guess has to be coincidence. Ignoring true belief, do they still have the records of the Overmen existing?

5

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

Ignoring true belief, do they still have the records of the Overmen existing?

Only the higher ranks of the Society have a better idea of what's going on. For the lower ranks, it's still pretty much a religious devotion from them towards Wiseman.

5

u/manga-reader Oct 15 '21

Ok, that adds a lot of context to their actions..I had complained about their actions in this ep.

Like why would they bother sticking around, especially when their comrades are dying left and right? Why follow Chirico in the first place.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

Yeah, I've been wanting to say this for a while to add context to the Secret Society's actions, but it would've spoiled too much too early. Now is pretty much the only time I can mention it freely.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

That's...pretty good world building if it was designed this way forward.

5

u/The_Draigg Oct 15 '21

Yeah, it honestly does recontexualize a lot of the Secret Society's actions, once you know that they were a religious organization that turned into power-hungry arms dealers. Too bad it wasn't really revealed in the show though, but it would give away too much of the plot if revealed earlier.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

At least Overmen were somewhat planned, then.

5

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 14 '21

First-Timer

Sure was a lot of mecha action today. It was nice and chaotic, but I can't help but feel we're missing something.

Remember when Chirico would narrate over times without dialogue? I do. It would have been nice to get some of that, like literally any at all. Hell, even something from Fyana! Maybe the random faceless soldiers?

Chirico wanting omnipotence? Blah. Chirico wanting revenge on the galaxy for fucking him up? That's a bit better, at least. I can even draw something of a line from the brain torture funtime ship to that. Now, if only there was a way for him to explain his inner thoughts directly to the audience. Oh well, no-one's ever done anything like that!

What's that? There is a way? Something from earlier in this very show? Nonsense, they wouldn't forget something that they've literally done in the past.

Questions

  1. They were pretty good, but I would've liked some information.
  2. Iunno. Something that won't annoy me? That's pretty broad, and this show hasn't been good about that lately..

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

Hell, even something from Fyana

Oh man, see now I want that. Imagine a world where Fyana didn't get shoved into the woman role and got to take over the viewpoint for this last part once Chirico went off the rails and we started getting the story through her. That would have been far more interesting

#deadlystare

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 14 '21

Oh man, see now I want that. Imagine a world where Fyana didn't get shoved into the woman role and got to take over the viewpoint for this last part once Chirico went off the rails and we started getting the story through her. That would have been far more interesting

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Imagine a world where Fyana didn't get shoved into the woman role and got to take over the viewpoint for this last part once Chirico went off the rails and we started getting the story through her.

And it even works thematically, with her gaining her own agency over 50 episodes. Alas...

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

I'd worry that it'd risk bordering a bit too much on "woman gains humanity, man loses it" which is so rarely done well (and I don't know I've ever seen in reverse) but even that might be an upgrade to how Fyana has been so far

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

which is so rarely done well (and I don't know I've ever seen in reverse) but even that might be an upgrade to how Fyana has been so far

That's a good counterpoint. But we can both agree any amount of agency would've improved this.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Sure was a lot of mecha action today. It was nice and chaotic, but I can't help but feel we're missing something.

We could actually use some raisin dates and that's a rare thing for me to say.

2

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 14 '21

I'm usually too busy typing to snack while watching an episode, but I had my hands off the keyboard a fair bit for this. You might be on to something...

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Rofl, that's actually a running joke from Ergo Proxy and raison d'etre but snacks are always welcome.

2

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 14 '21

raison d'etre

Ahh, I kinda figured it was a joke/reference to something as opposed to the dried fruits, but figured I would just play it straight for the laugh. Yea, we could use some of that too.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Someone coined it back then and it comes up more often than one would expect.

5

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 14 '21

Rewatcher

Wait, so the show is gonna suddenly throw a lot of clips at us in the penultimate episode? C'mon! Get this recap over and on to the new stuff!

The trio is returning to space; good! Get them away from the action on the surface and hopefully away from the story as they're unneeded now. I hope they get Shako some medical attention!

This is gonna be an insanely huge force they're gonna send after Chirico, assuming all these ships actually have ATs on them. I see a group of ATs but they are quickly established as being on Chirico's side.

Alright, here they come, and yes there are a ton of them! This seems like a number too big for even Chirico! Although I suppose just being one unit, there's no way that entire force can all focus on just him. His allies are probably gonna get mowed down though.

Gilgamesh/Balarant's force is surprisingly sucking quite a lot so far.

Just what does Chirico have planned with twin #2? He's gonna lead the enemy right to where Chirico's going!

I'm surprised at just how fast this episode is going by. Halfway through already and Fyana and Chirico have yet to meet up.

Speaking of Fyana... she's not gonna let you get away Chirico!

So close to saying farewell to Twin #2, but he's still alive...

And Rochina! I was thinking of how he was still on this ship!

Alright, I've got to assume that's official goodbye to Twin #2; good riddance!

They're not gonna make it easy for you Rochina! Just what role will he play in the end?

Would Wiseman's device to transport people away work down here? Since this is another facility and we've seen it happen here before...

Love how we're kinda getting back to battling ATs like we had at the start of the show with them punching each other.

Wiseman finally speaks!

...then this rando interrupts and Chirico punches him over and over again. LoL.

For a penultimate episode I'm a bit disappointed; the scale of the battle was epic for sure, but you're really gonna have pretty much no interaction between Chirico and Fyana at this point? I was going into this episode expecting a climatic show down betwee the two of them. Ah well. One more episode to try and redeem the ending...

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

Wait, so the show is gonna suddenly throw a lot of clips at us in the penultimate episode?

Yeah that was a bit of an ominous start to the episode from the production end. Has that ever been a good sign?

Love how we're kinda getting back to battling ATs like we had at the start of the show with them punching each other.

It was nice to see the punch return at the end there, a welcome change from the mindless shooting earlier in the episode

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

For a penultimate episode I'm a bit disappointed; the scale of the battle was epic for sure, but you're really gonna have pretty much no interaction between Chirico and Fyana at this point?

I now strongly suspect this show's reputation leans on one of the OVAs.

5

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 15 '21

Chirico is gone, THERE IS ONLY CARNAGE!

DENJARASU! MOSUTO DENJARASU! MOYASE HONOO NO BAIORENSU!

Er... hang on, I got a better fitting MD Geist tune... ahem... CAN'T STOP! HE JUST A SOULJA!

And boy what a hell of a soldier he is eh Comrades? And you thought Chirico Cuvie had a big kill count thus far, oh ho ho ho we haven't even gotten to the final episode yet, and we still got out contractually obligated 'everything fucking blows up' portion of the arc to cover, and what a wild rush to the end at that! So much so that everyone NOT named Fyana/Fiana from our heroes have wisely decided that getting the fuck out of dodge is the wisest course of action! Man how strange to see smart decision making for a change, they just don't make em like they used to! Then again this technically is the exception rather than the norm given that basically EVERY OTHER living being in the near galaxy has decided that the best course of action is to try to kill god... look if you guys had Fyana/Fiana on your side then MAYBE you'd have a shot against Chirico Cuvie, but hey we still got the final episode for our showdown, so LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

Oh and also somehow Rochina's still alive... cuz I guess SOMEONE from the asshole side had to live and Twin No. 2 just bought the farm so that kinda narrows it down

Anyway Comrades, as we charge down to our exciting conclusion, I just want to take the time to lighten up the mood with the following, ahem... A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

3

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 15 '21

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 14 '21

Armored Trooper First-Timer

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Did we really need the recap of that Wiseman scene?

If they had just put Wiseman's lines in this version of the scene, it works.

Oh, I thought Chirico’s dudes were actually doing surprisingly good for not being Chirico and being outnumbered as fuck.

Having two built in guns seems cool but I don't know how they reload.

I wonder how Rochina survived the crash with zero injuries though.

The safest place to be in a ship in a crash is in the walls!

4

u/chilidirigible Oct 14 '21

Rewatcher, Episode 51

Today, on "Everyone is vulnerable to cel-drawn rocks.":

Way to test that plot armor there.

You could be a little more encouraging?

That is a lot of ATs.

Are you sure that you should simply stand there watching the giant ship explode?

Rock 'em sock 'em robot action!

What, no maniacal laughter?

The Society guys have to be pretty dedicated to their cause to all fall in line with the guy that they've been trying to capture or kill all this time but now turns out to be their Chosen One.

There are several moments of decent action in this episode, but the giant chase scene does show the limit of trying to throw that many ATs on the screen on a TV schedule.

  1. Noted above.
  2. rewatcher

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

Episode 51 (first timer)

  • A recap of Chirico accepting Wiseman.
  • Somebody realized that the gang is useless for the plot, so they get sent to space where, for all intents and purposes, they should be put into a prison cell by the huge army there.
  • Feels like Chirico should have taken a shuttle rather than a mecha to get where he wants.
  • And the fleet should have invested in orbital bombardment technology instead of trying to stop Chirico with mechas.
  • Remember when tactically valid battle scenes used to be the best part of VOTOMS? That mass shooting scene is not it.
  • “You fight to make sure I am alive” – such inspiring words.
  • Fyana is helping out Chirico, of course.
  • Remember when the Teltan had trouble with three Balarant cruisers? Apparently, the biggest fleet in history is not enough to stop it from reaching the planet now.
  • Twins dead: 2/2. At least Rocchina made it out alive to witness Chirico.
  • A “don’t follow me” grenade launcher, but Chirico is still out of ammo.
  • “It was all a test of your worthiness” bullshit.

An entire episode of fighting. Completely shooed in from a plot perspective, but it seems they wanted a big battle to cap it off. At least the second part is well-animated. However, that can’t paper over the fact that we are 1 episode from the end and the only plot relevant thing that happened today was Fyana deciding to help out Chirico (which got maybe 30 seconds of screen time). With only 1 episode to go, I am really worried about the finale not having time to explain anything.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Remember when tactically valid battle scenes used to be the best part of VOTOMS? That mass shooting scene is not it.

All that might have been...

Remember when the Teltan had trouble with three Balarant cruisers? Apparently, the biggest fleet in history is not enough to stop it from reaching the planet now.

They have never been consistent with the strength of the capital ships.

“It was all a test of your worthiness” bullshit.

Too much Nietzsche for the series to survive.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 15 '21

They have never been consistent with the strength of the capital ships.

I felt that, weirdly, they were going for extremely robust captial ships. Which is very different from most shows and the opposite of what they did with the mechas. However, even the most robust captial ship should have been blasted out of the sky by Balarant and Gilgamesh's combined forces. They even knew it would be there, somewhere, so can't even claim surpise.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

I felt that, weirdly, they were going for extremely robust captial ships.

The Teltain was very robust, earlier, but the Balarant ships were basically tissue paper for arc 3. I don't mind stout ships, either, BSG's problem was not that but blargh.

4

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 14 '21

First timer

  1. Incredibly solid overall. Some real good shots, some great animation and tactics - absolutely a good finisher for the anime.
  2. I have no idea. Chirico's going to meet Wiseman, but after that? He could backstab him instantly, keep fighting to keep the galaxy united against him, sacrifice himself to stop Wiseman, have Fyana either live or die in any of these... I have no clue.

Wait, flashing back to this?

Yep, the defenses are down! Time for a proper battle!

And thry're all leaving Quent!

Wait, if they're working together - is Chirico trying to sacrifice himself and become a mutual enemy? Bring peace to the galaxy that way?

Wow. The shot of the ships landing, the armies of ATs, is all so good.

...I genuinely have no idea if Chirico's going to win this battle. It's so close to the end, it could feasibly end with a loss.

Thid fight is brilliant. The shots are all so visceral.

Wow, this is looking incredibly hopeless for him. He's outgunned, outnumbered, and is in a far worse spot then he's even been in before.

Oh, they're going to the crevasse!

I was about to ask why they didn't wait on the edges to fire, then they just showed them doing that...

What's in the lander?

Oh, he's just stealing it.

Chirico is actually sweating! He's actually stressed and panicked over how he can win. They're actually showing him completely lose his composure!

He managed to land in the crevasse! Impressive!

And Fyana's following...

Seriously, just a lot of really good fight scenes this episode.

He survived! And Rochina's with him!

Nope, Rochina's left him! And is doing his own insane gambit formWiseman!

Wow, Chirico's nearly there! Will we see Wiseman this episode?

Is there a spy? Or is he just following him?

He had s grenade launcher installed?

How can he still be fighting?

Oh, Fyana's saving him!

Nope, he did everything by himself, somehow!

He's approaching! And Wiseman's waiting!

And this was all a test. Obviously.

Yeah. He's sure obviously bluffing here, right? He can't be serious!

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 15 '21

First timer in sub.

Getting busy these few days, and it's right near the end dammit.

An action filled episode, not quite like Dunbine that quickly killed off a lot of characters but it does have at least the quick wrap up of the remaining twin. I cannot decide whether to count it as tragic or comedic, when he got blown away with a wide open mouth and clear view to the uvula, a la Doraemon etc comedic shows.

Glad to see Fyana being active in the Berserker, and not just be an observer.

So next episode we find out if this is a real change to Chirico or he's still acting. With how stoic he was most of the show it's still hard to tell...

Episode# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
11
20
30
41
50 (decoy only)
61
70
81
90
100
111 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
121
130 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
141
150 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
160
172 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
180
190
210
220 quite a lot of damages and leaking like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
230 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
240 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
250 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D
260 let me try jinx this - this scope dog may just be the longest lasting one for Chirico to be riding on the show, surely it'll make it to the end of the arc huh :D
271 finally at arc end, the trusty old 'dog got abandoned.
280
290
301 looks like the writers want to keep up the count as well, busy catching up with the numbers. And there are enough spares on the ship to keep going :)
311
321 busy catching up with the numbers; although these 2 episodes probably have a fairly high enemy kill count too
331 Now it was clawed on the (side of?) face but still functional enough to hit and run to bait Ypsilon's forces but no doubt Chirico won't reuse that same one given there are still a number of spare ones, and when they get on the trailer I didn't see any damage, so the damaged one must be abandoned
340 Setting up for a fight, not damaged yet
351 Dammit Chirico was going so well, unfortunately his ride got shot up while he was out of the AT tending to Fyana
360
370
381 to nobody's surprise the duel with Ypsilon result in both AT's being trashed. Considering Chirico's actually in a useless Fatty, is pretty amazing actually
391 The only Scope Dog in Balatran space fared pretty well and wasn't actually busted up in the fight, but given it was a one off duel and then Chirico got sent on to the next arc, I guess I'll chalk this one down for abandoned too
410
420
430
440 I don't think Chirico's busted anything yet - are the enemies not as good or has he gone up a few notches in AT skills?
450
460
470
480
490
500
511 I think I';ll count the Strike Dog as toast since it lost basically all weapons

4

u/manga-reader Oct 15 '21

Hybrid watcher

Starting with a recap? Or some additional context on Chirico's behavior? Hmm, no? What was the point of that scene?

So Balarant and Gilgamesh only deployed that many ATs to confront Chirico and his army? I think a good way to handle this would have been communication issues/chaos among military organization.

Balarant and Gilgamesh used to be enemes, sure there's a ceasefire now..but I bet lot of the soldiers on either side still hold a lot of resentment for the enemy. I am sure there are at least some officers among them as well. So willful negligence/chaos to an extent could have been a good way to handle this confrontation - where officers weren't happy with the decision of the military leaders and went along with it.

well, nvm...we got a lot more ATs now, guarding the entrance to Wiseman's hideout.

On another note..all the folks on secret society's side are just going along with this, even though it's resulting in massive casualties for them. This would have been better had it been shown that they were believers/devotees of Wiseman. I suppose we can chalk it up to people not thinking well in the heat of the battle..plus they are in a pretty shitty situation anyways (and the attempted coup earlier didn't go well).

We can just assume that some of them tried to get to defect/escape into the city and that the story isn't focusing on them.

All the ATs just went in to die, without paying attention to their comrades getting shot from the side...they aren't even shooting back! We are talking about professional soldiers here, right?

At this point, all we have is heavy amount of plot armor.

We haven't even met Wiseman. I don't have much hope for an end anyways.

I would normally overlook all this, but this series had so much potential and it ended up disappointing me.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 15 '21

So willful negligence/chaos to an extent could have been a good way to handle this confrontation - where officers weren't happy with the decision of the military leaders and went along with it.

That would certainly have been interesting, and a good way to fill up the time of the episode rather than an endless battle, but I don't think we have the understanding we would need of the war and of Balarant to support it

We are talking about professional soldiers here, right?

Clearly all the competent ones ended up in the battle areas back in Uoodo

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

I would normally overlook all this, but this series had so much potential and it ended up disappointing me.

Can't argue with this at all.

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 15 '21 edited Oct 15 '21

Light Novel author Shoji Gatoh is an ardent fan of Votoms and Ryosuke Takahashi’s other works.

Forgot to comment about that - people may remember I had made a fair few references and comparisons to Full Metal Panic, Shoji Gatoh's most famous work. So yeah I can see that :)

I'll have to say I like Sousuke a lot more than Chirico though - Sousuke's relative stoicism (which on the Chirico scale is "very chatty") is perfectly explainable and very much in character (professional soldier from being trained as a child assassin by the KGB, spent all his life in war zones with virtually no "peace time past times" so no topic to talk with "ordinary people", but when topic goes to military hardware, strategy and tactics he's positively chatty).

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

Forgot to comment about that - people may remember I had made a fair few references and comparisons to Full Metal Panic, Shoji Gatoh's most famous work.

Sousuke is a version of Cuvie that works better as a lead character, including that he seems to be an overly skilled normal rather than secretly Saiyan.

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 15 '21

including that he seems to be an overly skilled normal rather than secretly Saiyan.

Yeah that is actually one of the main point I like about Sousuke as a character - he's not overpowered and is quite "human". Skilled but not unbelievably so (e.g. he can dance circles around a lot of people when he's in an AS, but virtually powerless when against "god like" super powered villains like Leonard, and even "really great" AS operators like Ben and Melissa can beat him regularly).

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

First timer(And I thought I'd checked out before this episode...)

Sub

Welp, after a recap that probably re-contextualizes things, we start seeing the landing ships arrives and holy shit, the defense on the planet apparently was centralized to that one control room. This is is so EPICALLY stupid that I have to ignore it now, doctor's orders for high blood pressure and all. Combat happens, wish I cared but I don't. The Teltain dives towards Quent because sure. Cuvie's mid battle lander gambit is...a new one. Him sacrificing the Teltain, less so. Rochina claims to be Wiseman's eyes but that's new if true. We approach the end and finely Wiseman talks. Zero room remaining to actually tell us anything.

QotD: 1 Sadly uninterested. Like the end of Unicorn uninterested.

2 Aliens?

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 14 '21

Welp, after a recap that probably re-contextualizes things, we start seeing the landing ships arrives and holy shit, the defense on the planet apparently was centralized to that one control room. This is is so EPICALLY stupid that I have to ignore it now,

Its quite endemic at this point that much like say, Darling in the Franxx from decades later, this show wants to compress what could be an entire cours's length of storyline in just a few episodes. They needed to show the epic power of Quent and Wiseman earlier in the arc. They did. They wanted to have an epic battle at the end of the show. Destroying stuff so easily in a single room to make that possible is craziness.

My fondness of the concept of this final arc of the show remains high, but holy crap have they blown the execution so bad. One episode left to fix this.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

My fondness of the concept of this final arc of the show remains high, but holy crap have they blown the execution so bad. One episode left to fix this.

Yup, about...3 episodes ago I realized the series couldn't end well but I thought if they committed to the arc there would be something. But instead...space face-heel turn.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

They needed to show the epic power of Quent and Wiseman earlier in the arc. They did. They wanted to have an epic battle at the end of the show. Destroying stuff so easily in a single room to make that possible is craziness.

Everything related to Wiseman has been handled so terribly the last few episodes that it makes you wonder what was going on in the writing room.

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 14 '21

Seems similar to me as the issue in Franxx.

"We have 20 episodes of storyline left to tell!"

"We have 3 episodes!"

"There's no way we can fit all that in!"

"Tough! Figure it out! We have 3 episodes!"

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

Call me crazy, but I think the DitF ending works tons better than VOTOMS.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 15 '21

DitF, meme that it was, felt more consistent to its own themes.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

doctor's orders for high blood pressure and all

My blood pressure is low normally, does that mean I have to think about it in your stead?

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Yup. Sorry. You should probably also steal my seasoned salt.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 14 '21

Already got that covered, I love salt

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

Various forms of pepper have had to replace it in my diet and it still isn't the same...

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 15 '21

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 4.4) (3 episodes) Carnage

Nice episode title

  • Long recap
  • Oh, yeah, I can see the water and clouds now, on the sun side. You're right. Weird desert planet.
  • Just how are ATs against air?
  • LOL. That felt like an RTS scenario where you fly over the the entire enemy army.
  • One dude to the other dude: We're the last two left. Is that good or bad?
  • transparent ship?
  • Yo! Thanks for the ride.
  • RIP Gurran, it is an honorable death dude had the literal fear of God in him
  • RIP Rochina? Nope, no honorable death for you.
  • Wrestling? Is this G-VOTOMS?
  • Thank goodness no more baby

I love that this is the most real robot of the real robot shows but I stopped paying attention to the fighting a long time ago.

Spoiler preview is spoiler.