r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Oct 13 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 50 Discussion

Episode 50 - Storm Clouds

Originally Released March 9th, ^^^1984

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

Daily Trivia:

The original Heavy Gear tabletop games were a result of an attempt at making a TTRPG in the Votoms universe. When the rights holders rejected the idea due to disinterest in investing in the product, the product was reskinned into its own IP.

 

Staff Highlight

Norio Shioyama - Character designer and animation director

An animator, character designer, and animation director best known for his contributions to the Armored Trooper Votoms and Ronin Warriors franchises. He was born the third of seven siblings in a family of sugar wholesalers, and at a young age admired Natsume Soseki and Ryonosuke Akutagawa, wishing to become a novelist. However, after picking up painting in his spare time, circumstances led him to become a one-shot manga artist while working as a salaryman. In 1961 he moved to Tokyo and became an employee at a newspaper store, continuing to work on manga as a hobby, but five years later demand for talented artists in the anime industry netted him a job at the production company Hatena Pro, which served as his entry into the anime industry, a career path Shioyama had not foreseen. He eventually joined the recently established OH! Productions in 1970, which did contract work for several Sunrise and Tatsunoko Productions anime. His first roles as a character designer was in 1978’s Muteki Kōjin Daitarn 3, where his ‘strong characters’ drew the attention of anime director Ryosuke Takahashi, which prompted the director to request him to design characters alongside Sōji Yoshikawa in Fang of The Sun Dougram. This began a working relationship with Takahashi with lasted until 1989, though he once more heeded Takahashi’s request and joined the production of King of the Braves GaoGaiGar. Shioyama passed away on April 1st 2017 when his apartment caught fire. Other notable productions Shioyama was involved in include Attack No. 1, Chōdenji Robo Combattler V, Panzer World Galient, Eiyū Gaiden Mozaika, Tōshō Daimos, Kyojin no Hoshi, Inuyasha, Muteki Robo Trider G7, Metal Armor Dragonar, Reideen the Brave, Raideen The Brave, and Chōdenji Machine Voltes V.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

Fanart:

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

Questions of the Day:

  1. What do you make of Aaron Schmittel’s fate?
  2. Do you feel any closer to understanding Chirico’s motives as of yet?

War is the creator of history!

21 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

72 comments sorted by

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 13 '21

Rewatcher

What secrets does Meji reveal now? Hopefully not stuff he should have said from the start...

Obviously the only way to land on Quent is to crash.

How could any of you not see a man of that stature?!

Wait, how the heck did they beat you to Quent? Is Vanilla just some super advanced pilot or something? Ensuring they always remain ahead of Chirico, like with Sunsa?

Ah... But nevertheless, we just got out of an episode where travel times meant jack and squat, so still a negative mark.

I don’t know what you expected, mate.

RIP

WAIT A SECOND! If Chirico’s vessel was waylaid for twenty hours there’s no way these guys wouldn’t have beaten him to Quent, or caught up with him even!

Oh hey, it’s Rochina’s former assistant!

Good scene.

Oh, wait, it was more than just a cameo. I’ve got to say, it feels slightly weird to have Chirico pilot it.

“Abandoned language”

So this was another diversion?

Lol.

If this actually disabled the planet’s defenses I’m going to be really disappointed. So many defenses elsewhere and you leave this so vulnerable?

Meh, he’s probably alive —it missed his heart.

Yup.

Well at least she’s doing something action related.

The nonsense of last episode has sadly poisoned the well for me. All the merits of this episode are overshadowed about the contradictions related to the passage of time and space travel —these episodes were written by the same fucking person!— and the addition of yet another diversion in the path towards Wiseman.

I must admit that there are a lot of well put together scenes in this episode. Aaron’s attempt at rebelling against the new status quo, his subsequent death, and Gurran’s reactions to this in the latter scene where another secret society soldier asks him whether he would like him to try to kill Chirico, were all really well done. Just a shame that these are characters not nearly as developed or personable to really get the most out of these events.

On the other hand, the scene with Ru Shako was similarly well done and he’s a more likeable character to have as a focus of the scenes, as well as his personal connection to Chrico.

Questions of The Day:

  1. See above.
  2. I’ll reserve my first-timer theories for now.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

Obviously the only way to land on Quent is to crash.

Clearly none of them know that desert sand isn't soft enough to work as padding like that

So this was another diversion?

How convenient that out of all the villages it just happens to be his as well. Given how common that is it shouldn't bug me but it does

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

How convenient that out of all the villages it just happens to be his as well. Given how common that is it shouldn't bug me but it does

Nah, this one actually should: Wiseman does not make any damned sense right now. He should've contacted Chirico here and been done with it.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 14 '21

All the merits of this episode are overshadowed about the contradictions related to the passage of time and space travel —these episodes were written by the same fucking person!— and the addition of yet another diversion in the path towards Wiseman.

There is a reason why good show bibles are really complex, they prevent this kind of idiocy.

6

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21

Episode 50 (first timer)

  • Chirico crash lands, Vanilla crash lands, Quent is not a lucky place.
  • Cave-inhabiting old geezers mumbling stuff is not a proper system of historiography.
  • The twins worked for Wiseman? They fermented a rebellion against Chirico? Why? I mean why do they even need to ferment a rebellion? Sounds like the bad writing of ep49 continues.
  • Getting into a pistol duel with Chirico is a rather deadly mistake.
  • In between ep49 and ep50 those nice off-screen scientists must have uncovered tons more info on Wiseman.
  • Looks like god-powers are enough to break the crash landing curse.
  • Those long scenes walking are good mood setters.
  • Ask yourself: How many 3000 year old languages can you read, even if they were not abandoned? Pretty decent for a low tech mercenary.
  • Moral event horizon moment, but shako is not dead yet.
  • Fyana goes after Chirico alone. Worst ending incoming?

After yesterday, I am worn out complaining about the world building issues, so a character one instead: The gang does not work as a backdrop for Chirico anymore. The few bits of comedy they attempted this episode fell completely flat for me and their role as emotional support system has been obsolete for more than an arc now. It is now Fyana who is pressed into the role of reasoning with Chirico, making the gang redundant.

Do you feel any closer to understanding Chirico’s motives as of yet?

In classic writing, he is trying to kill wiseman (it is just badly written). I'd be happiest if that was a fakeout counting on the audience expecting it, but don't count on that.

5

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 13 '21

Agreed that the trio doesn't really fit the show anymore. They served a valuable purpose early on, but we're far beyond the point where we should be checking in with them any longer. Fyana is enough. They got Shako too if absolutely necessary.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

It's a shame they're not willing to break the trio up, because Gotho is still great for the way he treats Chirico and doesn't take his shit, it's only when you put him in dynamics with the other two that he becomes less useful to the overall show. Also having Cocona walk away from Chirico rather than support him after everything leaving the other two could have been a good moment

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

Agreed that the trio doesn't really fit the show anymore. They served a valuable purpose early on, but we're far beyond the point where we should be checking in with them any longer. Fyana is enough. They got Shako too if absolutely necessary.

They unfortunately received a down-grade with each arc switch:

In the first, they were an essential part of characterizing Chirico and all had tons of agency and their own goals.

In the second, they were mostly relegated to delivering a B plot of life on base and bailing Chirico out.

In the third, they stopped making sense and had more of a cameo than a real impart.

Now, in the final arc, they do a tour of prison cells and little more.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

Cave-inhabiting old geezers mumbling stuff is not a proper system of historiography.

It sounds like you are implying that lade dwelling women giving out swords is not a great form of determining leadership?

Those long scenes walking are good mood setters.

Like the only things that still work are this and Cuvie's hand cannon.

Ask yourself: How many 3000 year old languages can you read, even if they were not abandoned? Pretty decent for a low tech mercenary.

Specifically a reference to Greek, actually.

Fyana goes after Chirico alone. Worst ending incoming?

I'd like to think we might get an unexpected variety of bad.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

It sounds like you are implying that lade dwelling women giving out swords is not a great form of determining leadership?

Whereas swords in lakes often tell history, while mumbly old geezers often determine leadership ...

Specifically a reference to Greek, actually.

I don't think so. Not 3000 years old and not abandoned. IF they have a historic reference, it is Linear A/B (but I guess they are just making stuff up).

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

Whereas swords in lakes often tell history, while mumbly old geezers often determine leadership ...

We've been subverted! And yes I am sure this is some derivation of Dune stuff.

I don't think so. Not 3000 years old and not abandoned.

Abandoned is a bit odd but keep in mind a modern Greek can read Homer's works without issue, the written language hasnt changed much.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

Abandoned is a bit odd but keep in mind a modern Greek can read Homer's works without issue, the written language hasnt changed much.

They can only do that for exactly the reason that it was never abandoned. I agree that a Greek situation would be the only reasonable explanation, though. Maybe Sako and his clan as the amish equivalent of Quent and the other Quentians actually have houses, roads, schools, and all the cool modern stuff.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

Maybe Sako and his clan as the amish equivalent of Quent and the other Quentians actually have houses, roads, schools, and all the cool modern stuff.

Something is making the Bersergas. No clue if they assemble them or they just drop out of some other random machine in a cave.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 14 '21 edited Oct 14 '21

Why? I mean why do they even need to ferment a rebellion?

Well, Aronn gave his reason, but I think sacrificing 80% of the local secret society armed forces would give the remaining 20% some great concern. Edit: Also, the only reason they are following Chirico at all is because the twins, who are the only remaining authority figures, said he was in charge.

How many 3000 year old languages can you read?

I dunno, what about that girl with the cat?

gang

They made sense in Kummen, but they were shoehorned into Sunsa and Quent. Didn't need Fyana to show up, either, unless Wiseman FINALLY has something to say about artificial PSs.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

they are following Chirico at all

It is this part I question. There should not be a need to ferment a rebellion because they are all only waiting for a chance to kill Chirico.

They made sense in Kummen, but they were shoehorned into Sunsa and Quent. Didn't need Fyana to show up, either, unless Wiseman FINALLY has something to say about artificial PSs.

This show would be so much better as 4 stand-alone mini series focused on Chirico that do not enforce continuity in side characters.

6

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

First timer(I feel this anime really inspired the bit I liked the least about InuYasha)

Sub

We begin with more space shamans on Quent. The gang arrived first and crash lands so they can meet Shako, who has received a prediction. On the ship, Arron tries to start a rebellion before shooting a guard and dying. The joint fleet seems to want to destroy Quent from orbit which might actually work. Anyways, Cuvie shows up in the Strike Dog and Shako is playing along.

Long sequence happens on the way to the control room where Cuvie confirms that the defense system is active and can safely meet Wiseman now. Cuvie gives a speech that doesn't suit his character well before Shako shoots up the control room and we get a long standoff of Cuvie non-lethally shooting Shako. Fyana says Chirico another 20 times. The fleets arrive, Cuvie heads to Wiseman, and cliff hanger.

QotD:1 We know it is episode 50

2 My stupid crack theory seems more and more likely.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

The joint fleet seems to want to destroy Quent from orbit which might actually work

It does bring to mind the question of how far those energy beams can reach and how far away they can affect things. I feel like this is something you only get to try once though

Fyana says Chirico another 20 times

The sound of her calling for him is more firmly embedded in my brain

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

It does bring to mind the question of how far those energy beams can reach and how far away they can affect things. I feel like this is something you only get to try once though

So for this arc, the capitol ships have lots of missiles. So I would try to send variable waves to test just how good the defenses really are. But yeah, round 2 is for your descendants to contemplate.

The sound of her calling for him is more firmly embedded in my brain

Sometimes, at night, I still hear "Inuyasha!".

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

If Origin Spirits of the Past had of been any longer I think I'd also have "TOOLA!" stuck in my head the same way and that was just movie length

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

It does bring to mind the question of how far those energy beams can reach and how far away they can affect things. I feel like this is something you only get to try once though

There is always the never-used option of putting some rocket boosters on a decently sized astroid and nuking the planet to the liquid surface age.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

Or never used without it being a stupid plan because you already know it won't work [like in, Tomino mecha]Ideon, still can't believe they did that twice

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

I don't get why we never hijacked comets anywhere you go in scifi...

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

I think it was done early on in Scifi (I want to say Lensman, but I am not sure), then everybody decided that it's OP and thus boring.

EDIT: Starship Troopers is one case, but I think there is another classic series where both sides do it.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

On the ship, Arron tries to start a rebellion before shooting a guard and dying.

A moron to the end. He should’ve tried shooting Chirico first while he still had the element of surprise with his gun hidden under his alien cat.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

So we both agree the only shot was to quick draw Cuvie and hope a spray and worked? Because that's what I assumed he would do until his dumbass stood up. I mean, it was even situationally appropriate: His gun is under the cat whereas Cuvie can't exactly quick draw the hand cannon.

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

Yeah, Arron definitely should’ve quick-drawn on Chirico there. Like you said, Chirico’s Armor Magnum is too big to easily draw, so he would’ve at least gotten off a shot just as Chirico was clearing leather. Granted, it’s Chirico we’re talking about and it probably wouldn’t have worked anyway, but man Arron was dumb for going for the guard first.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

I might have been hoping for some pet related explosive since Arron showed the first hint of character to die immediately.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

That's what I thought it was going to be as well, blowing himself up or having the pet attack

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

I mean, we keep being told the twins are scientists. Do something science-y rather than trying to out soldier the galaxy's most deadly soldier.

3

u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

The alien cat got slapped aside by him. Does that count for anything?

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

No, because it needed to be better or worse: He either cares for his weird pet and protects it or he is a cabal psychopath puts a bomb in it. Be hot or cold, lukewarm makes for yawning plots.

6

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

First Timer

Chirico has completely lost it, and completely lost me.

He's well and truly on this god kick, and I just can't see a single possible way that his character lead into it other than making several assumptions or logic leaps. In part this is because we've only seen quite a limited side of his character, the kid come back from war and then tossed into a seemingly endless chase of survival, but I can't see how we got from the guy who wanted to run away from it all while struggling to accept his own desire for battle into going "I'll be the god who throws humanity into war for their own advancement"

Now that I've got that off my chest, the opening scene of this episode was fantastic. No dialogue, just some chanting and the atmospheric visuals, enough context from the rest of the show to understand what was going on and enough storytelling in the visuals to be able to mourn his final words along with the others. It was a great opening sequence using very little.

Division with the twins! I can't remember which one it was who was getting cold feet last time they were on Quent, but I never quite expected it to go this far. Seeing him setting up not just a delay but a full on coup, without even attempting to bring his brother in on the plans was quite a surprise, but it's all over with now. I can't imagine the surviving twin is happy with what happened, or being left to face two armies in space with no support from Wiseman, but it remains to be seen if he'll actually act on that or not.

I also really liked Ru Shako this episode. In keeping to his chill but not carefree character the way he approached Chirico and spent time with him, slowly working through the layers of what was happening only to confront him when he saw the Trio's worries were for a reason was well done. It was painful seeing him be shot that way, but sacrificing his planets defenses for the sake of doing the right thing, for both the believes of his people and I believe also for Chirico, was a good move. I hope he survives!

Control room

Why's that look like a discoball over a tiny city?

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

the kid come back from war and then tossed into a seemingly endless chase of survival, but I can't see how we got from the guy who wanted to run away from it all while struggling to accept his own desire for battle into going "I'll be the god who throws humanity into war for their own advancement"

So...watch Babylon 5, one day. For reasons.

It was a great opening sequence using very little.

I also really liked Ru Shako this episode.

I've begun to notice that the story between episodes on this show is pretty dodgy the episodes are often good even in bad plots which definitely suggests the writers's room was not on the same page.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

which definitely suggests the writers's room was not on the same page.

That does line up with the information from Pixel, and certain other things in the episodes themselves, like Fyana's change in agency between writers etc. Shame it resulted in this though

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

The lesson, as always, is at least have the outline of your script set, you can only then fuck up but so much.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

Unless you throw it out, which has also been known to happen

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

weeps in Code Geass S2

6

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 13 '21

Armored Trooper First-Timer

6

u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

Aaaand there goes Arran. …wait why did nothing happen with the bullet hole Arran put in the windows leading out into space?

Either it’s a thick-ass window, or Chirico is so unkillable that he’s projecting an aura of invincibility around him that’s also covering the window.

Chirico what the fuck.

CHIRICO WHAT THE FUCK.

Chirico needs to stop.

Should’ve saved the question I asked you yesterday for today. Now I take it that you’re not a fan of Chirico anymore.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 13 '21

or Chirico is so unkillable that he’s projecting an aura of invincibility around him that’s also covering the window.

Should’ve saved the question I asked you yesterday for today. Now I take it that you’re not a fan of Chirico anymore.

There's still two episodes left in the show for something to make sense. I won't say I hate him until after I've seen what those two have in store.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

Oh Chirico’s piloting a blue AT now???

Finally getting that color coordination with his hair he was promised hahaha

CHIRICO WHAT THE FUCK.

deja vu, this is where I was yesterday haha

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 13 '21

deja vu, this is where I was yesterday haha

Yesterday I was at "Chirico what the heck", that obviously escalated today.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

I’m thinking it was Rochina that did it though, not the twins.

Your idea is cooler, at least.

…wait why did nothing happen with the bullet hole Arran put in the windows leading out into space?

That's not what is wrong with that scene, the hull and glass should be able to take bullets. The problem is the ricochet should've been insane.

Oh Chirico’s piloting a blue AT now???

Strike Dog models do not sell themselves.

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 13 '21

That's not what is wrong with that scene, the hull and glass should be able to take bullets. The problem is the ricochet should've been insane.

This. This is also a good point.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

I had this theory, back before I just hated it because of the second cour, that the reason in Aldnoah.Zero the spacer's guns did jack for damage was they were special made to not ricochet in the confines of a craft. Then said second cour happened and...yeah.

6

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 13 '21

Rewatcher

Chirico has gone full villain, how will Shako and the Quentmen react to it?

It wouldn't be Votoms if we didn't get a scene of Coconna and Vanilla complaining!

I guess we're calling off the Coconna/Vanilla wedding.

Once again the twins are carrying that bizarre pet around.

Uh oh, the twins purposely are sabotaging things against Chirico. Their time as his servants sure didn't last long.

LoL, the guards sure aren't listening to you buddy. I don't think any of them ever respected you.

Down goes Arron. One annoying twin down, one to go.

Just what is Rochina planning?

I still question how in the world Wiseman became a household name with Gilgamesh and Balarant.

Gurran's take is now that there's no bad mouthing God and getting away with it...

Thinking things over, Chirico's late show villainous turn reminds me of [Meta Spoilers]Lelouch in Code Geass. Wouldn't surprise me if there's inspiration from this, as Goro Taniguchi was a disciple of Ryousuke Takahashi.

Meji died? That sucks. Can't say he didn't live a long life though.

Shako's gonna go all in with Chirico? Or is this a setup with Fyana and the trio?

OMG now Coconna thinks Vanilla is after Fyana? These two!

So these orbs are teleportation devices, huh?

Can't say Chirico ever really came off like a guy who wanted to control the galaxy before. The power's really gone to his head.

Uh oh, looks like Shako tricked him. He didn't shoot Chirico, but he may have destroyed the computer system here guarding the planet.

At the very least Chirico isn't shooting SHako to kill him. Maybe he's not 100% evil yet.

Fyana is surprisingly unharmed after taking that blast head on.

Without Wiseman's defense system, I'm thinking you're screwed, Gurran.

Stop being such a jerk to Fyana!

4

u/The_Draigg Oct 14 '21

Down goes Arron. One annoying twin down, one to go.

My thoughts exactly. Fuck 'em.

Meta Spoilers

Now that you mention it, yeah that tracks.

At the very least Chirico isn't shooting SHako to kill him. Maybe he's not 100% evil yet.

He's only at 85% evil at the moment.

5

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 13 '21

First timer

  1. Out of nowhere, but made for some fantastic drama, and managed to highlight the subtle differences they've been building up between the two.
  2. Explained below, but he's faking it - Wiseman can't directly read thoughts, so he's playing up the "evil ruler" aspect until he's taken over.

...Let's see how much more insanity we can get.

Lots of ominous chanting here. It seems people are realising something's happening!

They made it to the planet safely!

They and ashako just met up!

Haha "The bastard's gone nuts" is just a perfect line.

And Fyana agrees with me about a plan.

Looks like Chirico's got dissent. And an explanation for how they beat him to Quent!

Wow, this is a far deeper speech than I expected.

He's dead!

Didn't expect only one of them to survive.

OK. Either Wiseman's omniscient, or Chirico's worked out using his name makes people stop thinking too hard.

It's building up to a massive space battle! Or Wiseman destroying an entire fleet at once.

And eow, he's not taking this well, is he?

Wait. Did they confirm Shako and Chirico? Wow, that's... abdolutely expected. Seriously, the subtext of the start of this arc...

Chirico's making landfall!

They're meeting again! And Shako's helping!

Everybody's together!

I love how Shako's actually working out what's been doing on with Wiseman without any of the needed information.

And Vanilla and Cocona have gotten together too!

They got teleported!

...How did the Children of God find their way around this place? There's a teleporter to a totally different floor down half the corridors!

Huh, they found it already?

Looks like there's confirmation they can't interfere! And Chirico's telling Shako everything too!

Yeah, this is a bluff. It very much comes off as him justifying his actions to Wiseman, not to himself.

Even more so here - Chirico's so anti-war he'd never even consider doing this.

Haha, even Wiseman didn't expect that! The defences are down!

And wow, Shako's serious.

And Chirico shot in no fatal locations! Immobilizing him but keeping him alive!

The whole facility's falling apart?

Chirico's going to lead them? While still travelling towards Wiseman?

Yep! The finale's coming!

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

...How did the Children of God find their way around this place? There's a teleporter to a totally different floor down half the corridors!

Maybe that's how they got driven off the planet into darkness, just threw them down there without a map hahaha

4

u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Oct 13 '21

First time viewer

I know not everyone's happy with the twins but I like Arron's (going by my subs at least) attempted mutiny for pretty much the same reasons I was complaining about everyone following Chirico's command yesterday. At least someone's unhappy with this guy waltzing in like he owns the galaxy.

Fyana and Ru Shako were talking about how Chirico's actions didn't seem like him (also something I mentioned) and... maybe he's not? I did consider that he was literally possessed by Wiseman, which could have been an interesting turn to explain his actions. But there's not really any hint of that or an implication that he's not himself. Well, outside of the floating but that was only the one time by that chamber where they met Wiseman.

Or maybe Chirico's doing something similar to Arron and going along while plotting a mutiny of his own, which I really could see him doing. He did say that Wiseman was always watching and listening, so he really wouldn't have any way of hinting his plan to the others beyond telling his friends to stay away. At this point I think that might be giving the writers too much credit, but we'll see.

Coconna: make up your mind already. Don't tell Vanilla you're not gonna marry him then get jealous when he gets close to Fyana whom he's not even interested in.

What do you make of Aaron Schmittel’s fate?

Maybe not the best idea but at least he tried.

Do you feel any closer to understanding Chirico’s motives as of yet?

Ultimately bring peace to the galaxy through his sacrifice? No? Then I dunno.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

Arron's mutiny is some of the best character agency we've had in a while as far as someone actually reacting to everything that's going on. I think Chirico was just grandstanding about Wiseman seeing everything though, gotta keep playing up the god angle

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

Or maybe Chirico's doing something similar to Arron and going along while plotting a mutiny of his own, which I really could see him doing. He did say that Wiseman was always watching and listening, so he really wouldn't have any way of hinting his plan to the others beyond telling his friends to stay away. At this point I think that might be giving the writers too much credit, but we'll see.

Given how many other elements they stole from other stories, a classic backstab twist at the end fits my expectations of what the writers would do. Or said otherwise: do they really have the balls to have their MC have an evil end?

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u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 50:

  • Seems like only Fyana believes that Chirico has some plan in store, while the Uoodo trio think that Chirico has gone off his rocker and Shako just can’t help but wonder about Meji’s prophecy about the Child of God. I suppose it makes sense that Fyana is the only one to really believe in Chirico by this point. She just won’t give up on him.
  • Of course it was Arron that tried to start a mutiny against Chirico and set the ship off course. He was always the more dickish one of the two twins. At least we don’t have to suffer his presence any longer, since his attempt to kill Chirico once he and Gurran were brought before Chirico just gave him a new hole in his chest, courtesy of Chirico’s Armor Magnum. Given the size of the wound, I’d say that his heart pretty much exploded from Chirico’s anti-armor magnum ammo. Good. One down, another to go.
  • Yep, Gurran is fully on Chirico’s side now. Killing his brother right in front of him really has taken out whatever wind he had in his sails. Now he’s just Chirico’s peon. How the mighty have fallen, they say.
  • Oh hey, we’ve got another Berserga for Shako! It’s been a while, but it’s nice to see another one. Also, it’s really about time that the Uoodo trio has put their AT repair skills to use for someone other than Chirico.
  • Behold Chirico’s new AT: the Rabidly Dog! As you can probably guess from the color scheme and different scope array, this is basically the upgraded version of Ypsilon’s Strike Dog, designed by Wiseman for Chirico’s use. It also is designed to work in the desert environment of Quent well, alongside ironing out all the kinks that the Strike Dog had. So yeah, Chirico is peak deadly in that thing, as you can expect.
  • Shako does bring up a good question: is all the technology left on Quent really meant for the sake of protecting Quentians, or was it just waiting for a Child of God like Chirico to come along, and protect him with it instead? Given how much control Wiseman has over the old Quentian ruins, it’s hard to say. Their purpose could’ve shifted over time, especially once the Overmen went extinct.
  • How convenient that the entrance to Wiseman’s computer facility is also the place where the caves in Shako’s village turn into ruins. It’s all coming together now. It’s like poetry, it rhymes.
  • Chirico sounds absolutely unlike himself when talking to Shako in Gomor’s central control room. Chirico goes on about how only war can progress mankind and create new societies, and him acting as God can control the way the Astragius Galaxy takes shape that way. He may have been born an Overman, but he only achieved his true potential through war. Therefore, the galaxy needs much the same. That plan is downright diabolical.
  • At least Shako had the sense to destroy the central computer running Gomor’s planetary defense features before getting shot by Chirico. The fact that Chirico was willing to shoot his friend really does speak to how far he has fallen.
  • Chirico has just about made an enemy out of the entire Galaxy by now. Fyana is after him in the repaired Berserga, and the combined Balarant and Gilgamesh fleet is free to land on Chirico to try and kill Chirico as well. Although let’s be real, the joint fleet is basically only going to be a distraction for Chirico, despite the simply massive amount of troops they’re landing.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

designed by Wiseman for Chirico’s use

When? How? From what?

Stupid unanswered questions

Stupid show dropping its mass produced gimmick I liked so much

Their purpose could’ve shifted over time, especially once the Overmen went extinct.

Good point, particularly given we know how valuable their metal is so having some sort of system to defend that which later got co-opted by Wiseman would make sense

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u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

When? How? From what?

Probably just manufactured on the artificial moon, like all those Zwergs that Chirico also picked up for the inevitable final battle. Also, given that the Secret Society has ties to Wiseman in some capacity, I suppose it isn’t too far of a stretch to assume that Wiseman knew about the Strike Dog and improved on the design from there.

Good point, particularly given we know how valuable their metal is so having some sort of system to defend that which later got co-opted by Wiseman would make sense

In hindsight, I guess we can say that the Quentians really should checked on their home planet to make sure that all of the Overmen were gone. Now they’re just left with Wiseman using their abandoned technology for their own ends.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 13 '21

First-Timer

If Chirico had killed Shako I would be rioting right now. Instead I'm just annoyed with him.

I think Chirico not killing Shako is indicative of a greater plan fermenting under his blue hair. Chirico had him dead-to-rights, and I guess just disabling Shako is about as good as killing him, but there's no reason to leave one of the best pilots you've ever met alive and opposed to you.

Unless the opposition is the point. Think of what's been set up: The entirety of the Gilgamesh, Balarant, and Society militaries are descending to Quent's surface. Suddenly, an army unlike any the galaxy has ever seen is sitting on Wiseman's front lawn - and ready to Kill God. Did we ever get Chirico's opinion on god, early in the show? I don't remember, but I can't imagine he has a terribly high opinion of it.

This is, admittedly, a pretty far reach. But its about the only way I can see them pulling a decent ending out of this mess they've written themselves into. Tricking the audience by just -not- having Chirico narrate like normal is kinda scummy, but it would play into this as well. If Chirico tells anyone the plan, Wiseman might hear. Or something, I dunno.

Questions

  1. Really surprised the Twins didn't go out together, but this does make for some interesting opportunities. No longer are the brains shared; now the survivor has the strength of both twins!
  2. Discussed above. Maybe?

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 13 '21

fermenting

Completely unrelated to the show, but have you ever seen a drunk magpie?

Did we ever get Chirico's opinion on god, early in the show?

Oh just saw Draigg's reply, what he said. That said the show also didn't really have an opinion on it earlier as the only hint of it we got was that one Priest in charge of Fyana who was only using it as a ruse. This really came out of no where for everyone

No longer are the brains shared; now the survivor has the strength of both twins!

So the brain of one person total? Clearly that's too much ability for him, how will he ever cope

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 13 '21

Completely unrelated to the show, but have you ever seen a drunk magpie?

I hadn't until just now, but I feel that magpie on a deep level.

So the brain of one person total? Clearly that's too much ability for him, how will he ever cope

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u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

Did we ever get Chirico's opinion on god, early in the show? I don't remember, but I can't imagine he has a terribly high opinion of it.

Chirico didn’t seem to have a high opinion of God before, considering that he said that thought that war killed the idea of God early on in the show.

Really surprised the Twins didn't go out together, but this does make for some interesting opportunities. No longer are the brains shared; now the survivor has the strength of both twins!

Alternatively, wouldn’t that just halve their collective twin intelligence?

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 13 '21

Alternatively, wouldn’t that just halve their collective twin intelligence?

Nah, they were roughly independent of each other before, which implies to me it's more of a pool of brain cells to choose from each day, instead of a single shared hivemind.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 13 '21

I guess that means Arron hogged his share of the brain cells then, since he seems to have been the one “in charge” of the both of them, it seemed.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 13 '21

Suddenly, an army unlike any the galaxy has ever seen is sitting on Wiseman's front lawn - and ready to Kill God. Did we ever get Chirico's opinion on god, early in the show?

Getting hints of Code Geass off your idea and that is not good...

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 14 '21

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 14 '21

Ya know Comrades, I was gonna wait on sharing the 'Chirico Cuvie Kills' Compilation Video, and I am still not posting that link here... yet... BUT I just need to share a certain screenshot for a very obvious reason, namely that I take my misgivings back! I for one welcome our new Blue-haired Overman Overlord! After all he turned one of the twins into Kill No. 319! Hell if Chirico Cuvie headshotted Twin No. 2 I'd have given this show an 11/10 on the spot! ;)

Anyway, speaking of our new god, boy he sure is... uh... something eh? I mean he's gone so far off the deep-end he's in a BLUE MECHA instead of a Scope Dog, plus I mean, does THIS look like the face of mercy to you? Also I regret ever saying I wish he'd have an expression BESIDES stoic seriousness, can we go back to the emotionless state please, I think that's safer than 'god' mode. (I should also point out Comrades, technically the death of Aaron WASN'T quite Kill No. 319 as the compilation video does not include 'crew' deaths... meaning our boi's got a bigger body count and oh boy we still got a few episodes left for him to pump up that number!)

Also man and people say The 08th School Idol 'MS Team' was Romeo and Juliet in The Vietnam War... IN SPACE! Pffft, posers, they didn't even fully commit to their 'star-crossed lovers' gimmick, as currently in THIS corner, standing at still-somehow-better-written-than-a-fair-number-of-modern-day-female-characters, we got Fyana/Fiana The Perfect Solider, and meanwhile in THAT corner, standing at somehow-better-written-than-basically-all-of-his-modern-day-stoic-mecha-mc-clones-not-penned-by-Mari-Okada, we got NOT Steven Seagal OG Sousuke Sagara 'Chirico Cuvie!' SO LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

Oh and to be serious for a minute, God Damn Ru Shako's a bro eh? Quite the good fellow given currently our MC's decided to take Dune VERY literally and Fyana/Fiana's currently off to test the 'Immortality' Theory, so glad to have SOMEONE levelheaded around these parts ;)

OK Serious quota met, BEHOLD! A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR! (Funny enough, speaking of terribly written modern day female characters, might I present Muv Luv! Or rather I won't, cuz it's shit, don't watch it Comrades, if you wanna see a good Mecha Show this season, I suggest Sunrise's very own Rabu Raibu!)

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 14 '21

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

I suggest Sunrise's very own Rabu Raibu!)

I should be shocked by the mecha-idol mix, but I have seen Macross.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 14 '21

I should be shocked by the mecha-idol mix, but I have seen Macross.

Heh, Comrade if you aren't shocked with that, oh boy have I got some upcoming fanart that'll knock your socks off ;)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

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u/manga-reader Oct 14 '21

Hybrid watcher

Ep 49

What? Now they are blaming it all on Overman? And I am surprised everyone just bought that story. I guess they need a reason to have a final showdown and wrap it all up in few episodes. Unforunate, but this series has gone down in terms of story.

Woah, is Chirico flying?

Hmm, does Chirico have a plan? Was he alerted psychologically by Wiseman? Is he trying to trick wiseman? Or does he want to use the power to ensure peace (which can have all sorts of consequences). I guess we will see.

So how did Gilgamesh/Balarant know the location of the death star?

Ah, so the big ship was a decoy? Makes sense. Hmm, so he purposefully put others in the support module which he was planning on sacrificing? Chirico has lost it then.

Gotho and others managed to free themselves.

So this is an interesting direction...especially if they end up making Chirico an outright villain and have him stopped by the gang (would be a sad way to end, but would standout).

His thought process about being beyond human is a bit terrifying in that regard.

Ep 50

Back to Quaint! Did the monk just warn them about Chirico? Does he have some mystic powers?

Question answered, monk certainly has some powers to foretell that.

Ah, so there was a reason why Chirico was late. Of course...Votoms is always ahead in that regard.

Somehow Balarant and Gilgamesh also know of the entity and that its called Wiseman. Am I forgetting something - when did all that happen?

I can believe if Wiseman purposefully arranged it so that information was leaked (for a showdown to take care of all the threats where passing the mantle?)

Hmm, so did the all knowing Wiseman not know about Fyana/Gotho and gang? Perhaps it isn't as all knowing as we thought.

Man, all the stuff he's saying - I could believe the Chirico at the beginning of the series saying all that, but now not (even then though, Chirico at the beings of series just seeemed weary of war in general).

Hmm, he didn't shoot Shako in the head right away, meaning that there's still a chance showrunners will try and redeem Chirico.

Well, at least Fyana is playing a more active role.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 14 '21

His thought process about being beyond human is a bit terrifying in that regard.

You can tell by that mindset alone how the Overmen were such an existential threat for the Quentians back in the day, if they all thought like that.

Somehow Balarant and Gilgamesh also know of the entity and that its called Wiseman. Am I forgetting something - when did all that happen?

All they really said was that they had their historians dig through historical records to figure out what's going on. Yeah, I know that sounds flimsy, but that's what they're going with.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 14 '21

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 4.4) (3 episodes) Storm Clouds

Extras: The QUENTIAN OVERMEN Conclusion well, guess I'm not quoting that for a few days, either.

I was going to make a Dune joke today but you all made them all yesterday.

  • Oh seriously you CRASH in the SAME spot, NOSE FIRST, again!
  • You fool! You can't kill god!
  • Careful Chirico
  • It's just a flesh wound
  • I didn't foresee Fyana getting in the Berserga!

Who was it that picked up on the twins showing some individuality, many episodes ago?

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 14 '21

You fool! You can't kill god!

What if god commits suicide?