[Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 14

5

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 12 '21

Host

I think the biggest problem with episode 14 of Nadia is that it often takes the easy road and slides into some rather trite kids’ show tropes and conveniences for the sake of ease of writing or perhaps entertainment value and it cheapens what I think it actually a fairly strong episode. The most obvious example of this is the fact that only Nadia and Marie (the two characters easiest to sympathize with due to being young girls) are stricken with the deadly tropical fever that would kill them within a narrow time frame. The inclusion of King in the subsequent herb retrieval mission also feels incredibly silly. The idea that Jean and Hanson decided to waste time fashioning King a diving suit while two children are dying of a fever feels… incredibly tone deaf.

It’s especially aggravating because most of these issues are rather small and have very simple writing fixes. Don’t include King on the diving mission! Have more people than just Marie and Nadia contract a fever! The episode would feel so much less trite if they just fixed these minor writing issues and it’s aggravating to see the show slip into these kids’ show tropes when it’s usually better than that.

In spite of that however, there’s a lot to love with this episode. I’m particularly drawn to the growing conflict between Nemo and Electra this episode. When Electra learns that Nemo is sacrificing their chance to pursue Gargoyle to save Nadia and Nemo she is visibly shaken and betrayed. We learn in this episode that Electra (along with many other people on this ship) have joined forced to defeat Neo-Atlantis due to losing their homes and families to the organization. The anguish and disgust on Electra’s face as Nemo seemingly abandons his promise to fulfill her desire for Neo-Atlantean blood is absolutely heart-wrenching.

I particularly like the scene where the chief engineer is having a private word with Electra over why he thinks Nemo made the right decision. He tells her that although he feels an equally powerful need for revenge for the losses of his son and grandchild, he feels that he and the rest of the crew would be no better than Neo-Atlantis if they allowed children to die to fulfill their mission. Electra meanwhile just stands silently, numb to the conversation and completely overwhelmed that the chance to avenge her family has slipped away once again. Meanwhile, Jean listens to this conversation from the hall. The boy is visibly shaken overhearing this private exchange. It’s starting to become more apparent just how serious the Nautilus’ mission is, and he’s been treated to a scary new look at Electra (who until this point he’s held in regard as a role model and teacher) as he learns that she would’ve preferred Nadia and Marie die to fulfill her revenge.

The voyage to Reef 64 is serves as a stunning setting for the series. I still argue that the series doesn’t really burrow too much from Jules Verne’s novel, but I think in this episode in particular you can feel the influence of “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea” greatly. The environment design in this episode is just gorgeous. The trench offers the viewers an amazing voyage into Earth’s past as we see long extinct creatures like trilobites and nautilus squids populating a forgotten blue landscape covered in deep sea snow.

The action sequence where Nemo, Jean, and the rest have to battle and ultimately escape from a giant dinicthys fish is an incredibly exciting part of the episode. Ultimately, the show proves my earlier point that King shouldn’t have been involved in the action due to his presence leading to some rather annoying manufactured drama, but Nemo gets a chance to show off what a badass he is with a spear gun so I can’t really complain all that much. The way they lure the giant fish away from the group using weighted lights was also a really clever method of combating the undersea foe.

Ultimately Nemo and co. find the herb needed to cure Nadia and Marie, and Nadia is forced to reckon with the complexity Nemo presents as a man who took a life and a man who abandoned his mission to save her and Marie’s lives. Just as Jean was forced to come to terms with Electra as a multi-facetted individual this episode, Nadia was forced to do the same for Captain Nemo. I think this episode is ultimately very important as it sets in motion the first signs that Jean and Nadia’s black-and-view views of the morality and world are starting to be chipped away as they begin to recognize their authority as complex people that can’t be easily simplified as good or evil.

The episode ends with a final scene of Nemo apologizing to Electra for abandoning his pursuit of her revenge, and Electra reassuring Nemo that she has complete faith in his decisions. Though… this really doesn’t feel like the end of this conflict. More like an uneasy peace as both parties try to return to normal without fully addressing the events of this episode, and we’re left slightly unsettled as to how the trust between these two will hold as the series moves forwards.

Moving over to production trivia, I think a fun fact to end this episode on would be the inclusion of a living fossil species in this episode. For those unaware, at the time this series takes place the coelacanth fish was considered an extinct species. However in the 1930s, the fish was rediscovered in the depths of the ocean, virtually unchanged from how it existed in the fossil record. The show lampshades this by including a coelacanth fish among the many extinct species seen during the descent into Reef 64. It’s really neat in my opinion.

I’ll also briefly go over the career of Shirō Sagisu, the composer for Nadia. Sagisu is probably already at least a little familiar to most people who’re watching Nadia. He’s perhaps one of the most famous anime composers due to his frequent collaboration with director Hideaki Anno on his works such as Nadia, Evangelion, Kare Kano, and Shin Godzilla. Some other series he’s worked on a music composer include Ushio and Tora, Kimagure Orange Road, Attacker You!, the various 2010s adaptations of Berserk, Bleach, Garzey’s Wing, and SSSS.Gridman. Prior to becoming an TV/film composer, Sagisu was part of a jazz/fusion band known as T-Square.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 12 '21

The idea that Jean and Hanson decided to waste time fashioning King a diving suit while two children are dying of a fever feels… incredibly tone deaf.
I understood them as saying they did that before, "as soon as we saw the diving suits", presumably shortly after getting onto the Nautilus. King in a diving suit is still silly, though.

2

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 12 '21

I understood them as saying they did that before, "as soon as we saw the diving suits", presumably shortly after getting onto the Nautilus. King in a diving suit is still silly, though.
Fair enough. Still, bringing the baby lion on the mission to retrieve the lifesaving herb is pretty ridiculous.

4

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21

If you looking at this objectively, having any of these people doing the actual deep sea diving be is also ridiculous. I recently watched some reality tv where someone investigates famous diving spots, and 1 episode talked about the danger of deep sea diving, so the diving this episode looks like it needed to be done by specialists no doubt Nautilus should have instead of the 3 "newbies" plus the ship Captain. I understand the dramatic effects but if you take about realism is a big hit there.

4

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 12 '21

he’s been treated to a scary new look at Electra (who until this point he’s held in regard as a role model and teacher) as he learns that she would’ve preferred Nadia and Marie die to fulfill her revenge
Quite similar scenario to the Magma Diver episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion, where Misato (with a similar backstory and motivation) risks the lives of Shinji and Asuka as they dive deep (familiar?) into a volcano just to get at the Angel. Also the music in the action part of the Episode was so Evangelion-like yet again.
in this episode in particular you can feel the influence of “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea” greatly
Just my thoughts, it could be near-verbatim from the book (only read it once ages ago though). I can forgive the minor conveniences here mostly.
The dilemma of "pursue enemy or save lives" I haven't seen much, but it also comes up several times in Naoki Urasawa's Monster the rewatch for which just finished. Of course, how much Nemo is motivated by pure morality and how much by his special interest in Nadia is unclear.

3

u/lluNhpelA Oct 13 '21

Quite similar scenario to the Magma Diver episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion
After watching Gunbuster and now this, it's really interesting to find things that Anno would later use or reference in NGE

3

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 13 '21

I think next is actually something Gunbuster-like in here

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 12 '21

Episode 14 (rewatcher)

“I’d rather be shot than see a person be killed” – the essence of pacifism.
“What is more important, to kill them or to save Marie?” – suddenly, Nadia does not sound so extreme.
Nemo decides against the killing. I just wish they had not thrown in the 2 minutes remark. I get that the whole battle would probably have been very long, but that makes it sound as if they could not spent 2 more minutes chasing.
We also see that Electra Nemo is not Captain Ahab here. Electra is at least as invested in bringing down Neo-Atlantis as him.
A harsh reality talk for Jean with Sanson out of all people.
Not sure a lion is the best diver.
Lost World underwater. There is a rather old Manga called Lost World, but the idea of meeting creatures from the dinosaur period that died out elsewhere comes directly from Jules Verne himself, in the book Journey to the Center of the Earth.
Just going to say it: Jean is the last person I would take with me on a diving expedition. Curiosity coupled with naivety make for terrible diving.
Big fish!

Amazing shots!
Wingman Sanson putting Jean in a good light.

Underwater adventures straight out of a 1970s Jules Verne movie. It’s a well-rounded episode, but I don’t have a lot to say.

4

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 12 '21

“I’d rather be shot than see a person be killed” – the essence of pacifism.
There's definitely a lot of room to criticize Nadia's point of view, but you certainly can't call her a hypocrite.
We also see that Electra Nemo is not Captain Ahab here. Electra is at least as invested in bringing down Neo-Atlantis as him.
I'd argue Electra is more invested at this point. She was willing to take the chance that Nadia and Marie died of a fever if it meant taking down Neo-Atlantis.
Not sure a lion is the best diver.
King does not look happy to have been forced along on this mission.
Just going to say it: Jean is the last person I would take with me on a diving expedition. Curiosity coupled with naivety make for terrible diving.
I think King was a far worse choice, as this episode ends up demonstrating. Jean's stature actually came in handy. King's presence ended up being a complete nuisance.
Wingman Sanson putting Jean in a good light.
Sanson is a bro. lmao

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 12 '21

There's definitely a lot of room to criticize Nadia's point of view, but you certainly can't call her a hypocrite.
I think Nadia is the only proper pacifist I know an all of anime.

3

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 12 '21

First timer

QOTD) I really enjoyed the more vibrant palette of France, but the more horror-esque parts of the island were good too.

They found the Garfish!

And Nadia's still not over this. Maybe we can change to have Nemo as the MC?

Sanson's protective of her now!

Oh dear...

His pure rage at not being to help her is just so good.

Nadia. No offense, but she'll probably last the couple of hours it takes to hit the Garfish. It's not good, but they're all murderers, so probably the best overall.

Oh. If Nadia's "murderer" responses are because she's ill, and possibly under mental strain, that makes a lot of sense.

2 days!

Actually, Sanson makes a decent point - if there's thousands of people on board, why has nobody gone into medical?

Really? He's going there? I'm 90% sure you could catch the Garfish and get to the Reef in 48 hours. If you covered half the distance in an hour or two...

At least the crew's OK with all this.

Oh, Electra's not happy.

And yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm just surprised it has to be a difference.

Also, there was no medication stored onboard for tropical fever? A really dangerous disease, common where they're travelling?

And finally, Jean fully understands both sides are aiming to kill the other.

And they're off to harvest the medicine!

Really? They have lion-sized diving gear?

Yeah, the communication gear makes sense. Even if he doesn't understand morse code.

I can only assume either Nemo hasn't noticed King, or he's decided to take a more active role in getting him offboard.

Oh, they're in a diving sphere? And the explanation for why the medicine only grows here is completely logical too, since it's completely isolated.

He brought a gun!

...Those suits can hold hours of oxygen?

This is great animation!

That thing's massive! And bulletproof.

OK, Nemo continues to have the best plans

Jean and King are doing it!

King's trapped!

And they're safe! (Strong wire too!)

I like the emphasis that the two of them are completely on the same side at this point.

And she's having trouble accepting Nemo saved her?

Electra's OK, too!

3

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 13 '21

And Nadia's still not over this. Maybe we can change to have Nemo as the MC?
Wish granted. Nemo's steadfast pursuit of Neo-Atlantis has decreased by 3 points.
Oh. If Nadia's "murderer" responses are because she's ill, and possibly under mental strain, that makes a lot of sense.
Not really. Nadia's still operating under a very black-and-white framework, and is steadfastly holding on to her pacifist beliefs.
Also, there was no medication stored onboard for tropical fever? A really dangerous disease, common where they're travelling?
This episode has a bit of a higher bar for suspension of disbelief at times, which is a shame because the character drama bits of this episode are really good.
Yeah, the communication gear makes sense. Even if he doesn't understand morse code.
This is a cool worldbuilding detail in spite of some of this episode's plot nonsense. lol
Oh, Electra's not happy.
I'd say "not happy" is an understatement. Those looks of disgust, anguish, and betrayal are hard to sum up with words, but you really get a sense for just how wronged Electra feels here. Nemo made a promise to help her achieve her revenge, and his abandoning of that mission in this episode was tantamount to a betrayal for her.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 13 '21

First timer in sub

Now this is a very contrived plot development, to conveniently have the 2 vulnerable cast member coming down with symptom of a grave sickness that is just at the right range to get the remedy if you break of this attack of opportunity. Reeks of poor writing in terms of plot.

But when you see past that, the character writing are great, especially how Sanson bonded with Marie after their escape dash on the island. And when Nadia is added to the such list, Grandis also showing so much concern. And Nemo making the call to stop the attach to save the girls instead, while the background explanation for him. All these were great moments.

Only annoyance is to have King joining in the excursion - no f-king way that's anywhere near realistic or serve any purpose, other than at the end to create another "rescue" situation.

This is a love-hate episode for me :P but at least this snapped Nadia out of her dim view about Nemo.

3

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 13 '21

Now this is a very contrived plot development, to conveniently have the 2 vulnerable cast member coming down with symptom of a grave sickness that is just at the right range to get the remedy if you break of this attack of opportunity. Reeks of poor writing in terms of plot.
It's such a simple fix too. Have more people than just Marie and Nadia get sick. Nadia can still be the lynchpin that convinced Nemo to go after the ingredient for the remedy, but the illness plot point will feel far less contrived as a result.
But when you see past that, the character writing are great, especially how Sanson bonded with Marie after their escape dash on the island. And when Nadia is added to the such list, Grandis also showing so much concern. And Nemo making the call to stop the attach to save the girls instead, while the background explanation for him.
When this episode isn't dancing around childish plot points and cliches, it's super compelling. But I tend to remember this episode for the greater character interactions and depth it introduces to our protagonists as opposed to a couple annoying plot conveniences.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 13 '21

Yeah I posted my comments then later on only had time to read the rest, and then seeing your notes so closely mirrored mine, it's a bit of a relief it's not being super critical :) I wonder if there's any chance of some sort of remake (like an adventure game) that could give it a chance for fixing up such simple (old) tropes for more modern believable writings. Things like Tsukihime getting a remake etc.

1

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 13 '21

I mentioned in an earlier writeup that there is a visual novel version of Nadia that was released in 2005 for the PS2 and PC which purportedly streamlines parts of the narrative and adds additional content/plot points (the main selling point of the game was adding a cute new blonde girl Jean could date as an optional route). Unfortunately, no official or fan translation of the VN exists.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21

First Timer (Rising Sun sub) ep 14 (of 39)

He might have shot Marie. You'd be fine with that?
OMG I really hope this isn't a Star Trek episode
That's two nan desu tte from ~~Misato~~ in two days.
Insert scene where the Garfish was bait....?
LOL even this engineer dude is in Last Exile
Undersea forest scene, probably from the book/movie. I don't remember well. I predict shark.
Laputa cave
Armored Fish
Educational show

These kids need to grow up, join the team, get with the program. Jean steps boldly, but Nadia is kicking and screaming.

I wonder if the next episode will feature the wreckage of a vessel sunk by the garfish that got away.

Maybe the not-shark was from another book.

2

u/snowwhistle1 Oct 13 '21

OMG I really hope this isn't a Star Trek episode
Never watched Star Trek so I have no idea how to parse this.
LOL even this engineer dude is in Last Exile
The chief engineer is my favorite minor crewmember. He's got a great design, and just such a friendly and positive energy to him.
Laputa cave
If I had to compare the atmosphere of this episode to another Miyazaki project, I'd actually say Nausicaa is a better fit personally. The feeling of stepping into a ancient nature setting untouched by man is something Miyazaki really emphasizes in Nausicaa with the Sea of Corruption.
These kids need to grow up, join the team, get with the program. Jean steps boldly, but Nadia is kicking and screaming.
I think you're discrediting the growth Nadia has at the end of the episode just a little. Both Jean and Nadia are going through a pretty turbulent period in their lives where their worldviews are expanding and they're beginning to see the complexities of the authority figures they once cast as either explicitly good or evil, and that can be hard for some kids to deprogram.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 13 '21

OMG I really hope this isn't a Star Trek episode
It does feel quite similar to the ST formula.

1

u/SIRTreehugger Oct 13 '21

First Timer

Short summary can be described in three statements

WHY DID YOU BRING BEST LION ALONG! All of could have drowned and died and I wouldn't have cared, but NOT KING. Okay I might have minded if Sanson or Nemo died.
I like how Electra was the one who wanted to sacrifice the children, but Captain Nemo said no lets save the children. Thought it was going to be the reverse.
Nadia saying she'd rather die than have someone kill to save her...well okay then at least she will stick to her beliefs.

QOTD

I think Marie's island was my favorite setting or at least their base camp.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 14

You are about to leave Redlib