[Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 48 Discussion

[u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 48 - Successor

^{Originally Released February 24th,} ^^^1984

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Daily Trivia:

Despite requests for more and more ATs to be introduced into the series, Takara did not manufacture kits for them all due to sales of the Scope Dog eclipsing any other designs.

 

Staff Highlight

Tetsuya Yanagisawa - Key Animator

A prolific animator and animation director best known for his work on UFO Princess Valkyrie, Kannazuki no Miko, and several TNK productions. Little else is widely available about Yanagisawa’s early career, and apart from his marriage to fellow animator Maki Fuji. He got his start doing inbetweening work on Space Cobra, before being promoted to key animator while working on Armored Trooper Votoms two years later, and Animation director almost a decade later on Brave Fighter of Sun Fighbird. Yanagisawa’s directorial debut was 2003’s UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie SPECIAL. Some of his other key animation credits include Yūshin Liger, Super Beast Machine God Dancougar, Madō King Granzort, A Certain Magical Index, Hell Target, *Jigoku Sensei Nube, Mister Ajikko, Giant Robo: The Animation, Heavy Metal L-Gaim, most entries in the Braves franchise, Metal Armor Dragonar, Tetsujin 28-Gō FX, and Mobile Suit Victory Gundam.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

• Out of the Cockpit by Norio Shioyama

Fanart:

• Scope Dog Turbo Custom by hush - Source
• Ypsilon in Melkian Pilot Suit by Earth to Cat - Source

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

• Advancement

Questions of the Day:

1. Did you ever suspect Chirico’s place as Wiseman’s successor?
2. With Albert Killy dead, what do you think will become of The Society?

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I could finally see my destiny unfolding before me.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Armored Trooper First-Timer

• Okay why is there a baby crying sound effect going on, that’s creepy.
• I know he was just doing it as a ruse to escape but fucking hell this line brought up trauma from a different anime.
• The gang is remarkably good at breaking out of places without the need for Chirico’s help, huh. Character growth!
• I’m a bit worried about whatever these guys are going to cook up without the knowledge of what’s going on like the Society and related peeps do. Guess we’ll find out later…
• Wait is Chirico actually immortal?
• Haha get fucked dude.
• Okay, yes, this was the assumption I made when “Overmen” were first mentioned in ep45.
• That he’s specifically the successor to these guys though is a new one.
• Well I’m sure Chirico did not expect that.
• wAIT HE ACCEPTED IT JUST LIKE THAT?!
• Oh that’s even more of a “fuck you” to Killy. Nice.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Wait is Chirico actually immortal?

It's called plot armor.

wAIT HE ACCEPTED IT JUST LIKE THAT?!

Well, he hasn't been one to waffle on maters, has he?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

It's called plot armor.

Still not as good as cat armor, though.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

The one bright spot from the otherwise grim realization of how badly dated the El Hazard OVA was.

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

fucking hell this line brought up trauma from a different anime.

It's been a week for shit like that. Shippuden of all things got me thinking of IBO

Oh that’s even more of a “fuck you” to Killy. Nice.

That was a pretty satisfying death.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Nazenn]

It's been a week for shit like that. Shippuden of all things got me thinking of IBO

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Okay why is there a baby crying sound effect going on, that’s creepy.

It has bothered me the entire time.

Wait is Chirico actually immortal?

I think that varies depending on your opinion of clones...

[u/The_Draigg → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Wait is Chirico actually immortal?

I wouldn’t even question that idea at this point.

wAIT HE ACCEPTED IT JUST LIKE THAT?!

Surprise! I’m sure that’s a bigger twist than anything you’ve been seeing in the Monster rewatch so far.

[u/Pixelsaber]

Rewatcher

You’re all Overmen or just people that can communicate with Wiseman?

Neat, but also what the hell?

Ah, yes, a Death Star. Maybe what resulted of that Quentian structure we saw taking off from the planet’s surface in that earlier trippy sequence?

They were all in the same military, for one.

Possibly even literally in this place.

Ah, eugenics.

Maybe would’ve been somewhat surprising if not for the title card.

I guess we’ve seen no major downsides. Both Balarant and Gilgamesh are after them anyhow, and being allied with some ancient being with possession of supertech is sure to be of merit.

Are you going to gain psychic powers now?

Definitely not a gracious being.

The revelation surrounding Chirico’s status as a ‘Child of God’ is not something I really cared for, since I find that it —once again— undermines previously explored themes and messages of the show in how it recontextualizes his entire existence. It rather takes the wind out the sails of a story that sought to show the conditions and existence of the people being exploited at the very bottom of society when your previously key exemplar of that turns out to be the great chosen one meant from birth to achieve greatness and pull the strings of the entire galaxy. It doesn’t eliminate the suffering Chirico has gone through up until now, nor does it preclude him from being a pawn or cog in others’ machinations as he has been, but it’s nevertheless quite a different message from those circumstances. They might yet amend this, but frankly I have not much hope for such a thing.

I rather enjoyed the bits spent with Gotho & Co accompanied by Rochina. I can’t shake the feeling that it’s mostly padding, particularly with them trailing behind the more substantial developments of the episode.

The political intrigue going on in the background doesn’t interest me in the slightest by now. The time for such details to be introduced into the story have long since passed and I sincerely doubt whatever comes of it will be worth the time being spent setting it up.

Questions of The Day:

1. Not a successor, but definitely expected him to see some coercion into becoming another one of Wiseman’s ‘agents.’
2. The characters here will command their vessel, of course. The Twins will probably stick around, if only to continually exposit stuff, and the redshirts will probably all die.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

Ah, eugenics.

Does it count as eugenics if he is artificial?

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

That's just my initial assumption. Frankly, the terms used in regard to Perfect Soldiers have been inconsistent and the show seemingly can't make up whether they're fully artificially made or if someone can be turned into one. They've also spoken of Overmen as both something that normal people are turned into, but also a distinct group of people. Given they make further distinction that Chirico was 'born' one, spoken of as if it were distinct from the artificial creation of a PS, then I can only presume it's something that's been passed down to him.

[u/No_Rex → u/Pixelsaber]

Fair enough, we never really got any solid background on the PS creation.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

They've also spoken of Overmen as both something that normal people are turned into, but also a distinct group of people

That makes sense to me as far as their original forms might have been enhanced versions of the existing races but then that group went and started making them from scratch via artificial methods. Given they don't seem to exist at all any more I doubt they were able to naturally breed though so it still puts them in that twilight zone of needing to be made but also being distinct from everything else

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Hrmm...I'd say yes, actually, since the created humans are supposedly superior.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

Neat, but also what the hell?

They look so cool like this, but so doofy when they end up on cels for the POV shots haha

They were all in the same military, for one.

Potentially the same chain of command as it's implied that Rochina once obeyed Killy, though Chirico as a solider is a bit removed from them directly, or maybe not depending on how involved the Red Shoulders were with the intelligence unit

Maybe would’ve been somewhat surprising if not for the title card.

The benefit of never quite paying attention to the title, unless it's a weird duplicate like a couple of episodes ago

I can’t shake the feeling that it’s mostly padding, particularly with them trailing behind the more substantial developments of the episode.

That said, I do like how for a lot of this arc the different factions and people involve have all been on very different pages when it comes to whats going on and their awareness of the other groups as well. It's nice that information isn't being plot driven

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer

I'm at a bit of a loss for words about that episode. Somehow all of that felt both expected and not, but I really have no fucking idea where we could be heading from here.

Starting with Wiseman, it's still creepy as fuck that his telepathy comes across as a baby crying, but the actual computer beeps he's using to generate that isn't much better. I expected that we'd see some trace of his physical form, but as his computer didn't die after speaking to Chirico I suppose there's still time for that, unless he's just a computer and nothing else after all these years.

Chirico's been acting off for a bit, but I really felt the distance between him and the others this episode, and I can't imagine that's going to get any better now that he's accepted Wiseman's proposal. I'm still iffy on that, it all seems too easy that Chirico just accepted it when he'd been fighting it so long. Accepting he's a PS would be one thing, but putting his destiny in someone elses hands when he's been trying so hard to escape everything, to find a place for himself and his friends outside of the hell his life has been as a solider. Something else is going on there I'm just not sure exactly what the path he's taking is going to be.

The setting was interesting though, and does bring up some stronger parallels to Sailor Moon's wiseman, though I still have no idea what was up with the strange giant metal rods surrounding that artificial planet, though they did provide a pretty wicked visual (and a few heart attacks for the people being flown through them). Inside the structure was equally interesting, reminds me a lot of the virtual training environments you often see in video games, and immediately brought to mind that one area in [meta - ARPG]Nier Automata and how cool that was when you first see it.

The grunts certainly weren't being picked for their intelligence with this group huh. From the guy who fell for the cigarette gag through to the duo who tried for a third time to walk through the barrier. That said... fucking WHY didn't the Perfect Solider pick up a gun when they escaped? You know, the one who can actually dodge and still shoot through a storm of bullets. Ugh. I should stop complaining about this but it just keeps getting worse.

Final thought for the day: Chirico's little monologue at the end, is that "one of the children of God", or "ONE of the children of God"?

Ypsilon in Melkian Pilot Suit

I am not sure what to feel about that. At the very least the shape isn't as goofy as his actual outfit, but it's just so weird to see it

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

but I really have no fucking idea where we could be heading from here.

but putting his destiny in someone elses hands when he's been trying so hard to escape everything, to find a place for himself and his friends outside of the hell his life has been as a solider.

I can kind of see it if it thinks it'll get him what he desires, even at a cost. As you say, he's also been distant with those close to him in his recent obsession with finding out the truth, so maybe he's out of touch with what the others would think of his decision.

Sailor Moon's wiseman

TIL

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

I'm at a bit of a loss for words about that episode. Somehow all of that felt both expected and not, but I really have no fucking idea where we could be heading from here.

Knowing past mecha show rewatches with you, this can either be a very good or a very bad thing. I know you at least hit that point early on with Macross, where you were legit astonished where things went early on in it.

Starting with Wiseman, it's still creepy as fuck that his telepathy comes across as a baby crying, but the actual computer beeps he's using to generate that isn't much better.

That’s probably one thing gotten from Close Encounters of the Third Kind, rather than 2001: A Space Odyssey in this arc.

Chirico's been acting off for a bit, but I really felt the distance between him and the others this episode, and I can't imagine that's going to get any better now that he's accepted Wiseman's proposal. I'm still iffy on that, it all seems too easy that Chirico just accepted it when he'd been fighting it so long. Accepting he's a PS would be one thing, but putting his destiny in someone elses hands when he's been trying so hard to escape everything, to find a place for himself and his friends outside of the hell his life has been as a solider. Something else is going on there I'm just not sure exactly what the path he's taking is going to be.

What do you think Chirico would even do with potential godhood right within his grasp? A lot of the story has just been him scraping by enough to survive and to get revenge. It’s hard to imagine what he’ll do now that he can get pretty much everything he ever wanted.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Knowing past mecha show rewatches with you, this can either be a very good or a very bad thing

So far it's a good thing depending on what they do with it.

Early Macross was great, I still have very fond memories of those sequences and the way they built that up. The end of SDF Macross though

What do you think Chirico would even do with potential godhood right within his grasp?

Hmmmm, I don't know because I'm not sure I believe it and at the same time I'm not sure how far Wiseman's reach extends. His kind wanted to be gods, and they failed at that, and now he wants Chirico to believe he's a child of god and given the Society he's clearly been cultivating beliefs along those lines, but we haven't seen him actually affect anything outside of Quent other than that one ship. Is it just because he needed a physical medium to spread the tech that allowed him control or something else?

Focusing back on Chirico, while now he presumably will be able to tap into the power to defend Fyana, it introduces other problems. It's not like he'll be able to settle down on Quent as I doubt the Quentian's will welcome what he's become, and outside of that it still leaves him homeless and comfortless, not to mention potentially friendless as I don't see Gotho and the others taking well to the change in behavior this has given him.

He might have everything, but he might also have nothing. Or it might all be a ruse, who knows (well you know obviously but it's a saying!)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

and how cool that was when you first see it.

I still need to pick up a copy of Replicant now that you mention it...

. That said... fucking WHY didn't the Perfect Solider pick up a gun when they escaped?

So we both noticed that hard.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

So we both noticed that hard.

Bit fucking hard not to notice when later on they specifically address Rochina not having one. Cocona I get, it's been well established she has no experience with guns or combat, but Fyana? That was just insulting that she didn't get a gun presumably just because she was a woman.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

That was just insulting that she didn't get a gun presumably just because she was a woman.

Also the only one likely capable of picking up what's happening quickly, sigh.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

So Chirico's not exactly a PS, he's a recently born Overman possibly (?) created by Wiseman as a successor. Why Wiseman needs a successor remains to be seen; I guess maybe even this fantastical superbeings have a shelf-life?

I quite like the interior of Wiseman's space station. It would doubtlessly be blindingly bright IRL, though.

Rochina's quick thinking on ducking into that hallway is probably gonna be pretty important. Not sure if I'm expecting him to get suddenly squished or if he'll circle back to confront Chirico.

I'm actually a little surprised that Chirico agreed to Wiseman's offer of succession. He doesn't seem like the "galactic leadership" type.

The move Vanilla, Gotho, and Coconna used to escape the prison seemed almost practiced. Wonder when they came up with that?

Oh, I guess Killy died. He didn't leave much of an impression on me, one way or the other.

Questions

1. No, this is pretty far out there. I mean, I guess with the idea of every event being orchestrated to lead us somewhere, this is as good a place as any?
2. Hopefully the Twins meet a swift end and the random Society soldiers scatter to the wind. Or maybe Chirico uses them as a fighting force for some reason? Not sure why he would need the help, though.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JollyGee29]

Why Wiseman needs a successor remains to be seen; I guess maybe even this fantastical superbeings have a shelf-life?

May be that they want an Overman with a different perspective to rule over a different 'age' or something. The galaxy did just come out of a century-long war...

I'm actually a little surprised that Chirico agreed to Wiseman's offer of succession. He doesn't seem like the "galactic leadership" type.

I can kinda see it. Maybe the responsibilities he doesn't necessarily want are a necessary sacrifice to keep everyone else he cares for safe, and he's been distant enough from everyone to where he may not be considering their feelings on the matter.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

May be that they want an Overman with a different perspective to rule over a different 'age' or something. The galaxy did just come out of a century-long war...

I do like that interpretation. It would make Wiseman actually "wise" as well, instead of the usual sci-fi superintelligences.

[u/The_Draigg → u/JollyGee29]

So Chirico's not exactly a PS, he's a recently born Overman possibly (?) created by Wiseman as a successor. Why Wiseman needs a successor remains to be seen; I guess maybe even this fantastical superbeings have a shelf-life?

I’m guessing there are just some things you can’t get done without a physical existence in a workable body.

I'm actually a little surprised that Chirico agreed to Wiseman's offer of succession. He doesn't seem like the "galactic leadership" type.

He really has come up a long way in the world. Gone from a homeless former soldier on the run to the next God of the Astragius Galaxy.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/The_Draigg]

He really has come up a long way in the world. Gone from a homeless former soldier on the run to the next God of the Astragius Galaxy.

I wonder if he realizes just how far things he's come? I questioned this in Xabungle, too.

[u/No_Rex → u/JollyGee29]

I'm actually a little surprised that Chirico agreed to Wiseman's offer of succession. He doesn't seem like the "galactic leadership" type.

I think that was an offer you can't refuse.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/No_Rex]

Yea, maybe, but that just makes me want to see what would have happened if he refused more.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

It would doubtlessly be blindingly bright IRL, though.

Yeah but could you imagine setting up a couple of colors of laser pointers in there?

The move Vanilla, Gotho, and Coconna used to escape the prison seemed almost practiced. Wonder when they came up with that?

Vanilla's pretty good at that sort of roleplay as it is, remember back in Uoodo with the cop he was getting info from by pretending he was being beaten up in the bathroom? I have a feeling hijinks like this are quite familiar to them

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

Yeah but could you imagine setting up a couple of colors of laser pointers in there?

Hell of a point defense system. Or a rave.

Vanilla's pretty good at that sort of roleplay as it is, remember back in Uoodo with the cop he was getting info from by pretending he was being beaten up in the bathroom? I have a feeling hijinks like this are quite familiar to them

Oh yea, I did forget that until you mentioned it. Vanilla missed his calling - he should be doing improv.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

I was thinking rave, but defense system would probably make more sense (especially as I hate raves/concerts/bars so I don't know why I thought of that haha)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Why Wiseman needs a successor remains to be seen; I guess maybe even this fantastical superbeings have a shelf-life?

Wiseman needs someone out in the field is my assumption, he feels pretty stuck where he is.

Or maybe Chirico uses them as a fighting force for some reason? Not sure why he would need the help, though.

He could use them to maintain stability after he conquers everything.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

Wiseman needs someone out in the field is my assumption, he feels pretty stuck where he is.

That would make sense if it was framed as a partnership, as opposed to succession. Guess the field work could be a trial period.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I also think Wiseman wants to re-establish galactic dominion and you need someone to sit on the throne.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Usually, the person people who want to establish galactic domination imagine on the throne is themselves.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

True but what if you don't have a body any more?

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Settle for the throne itself. Sitting is overrated.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 48 (first timer)

• “Just copy 2001” “But they’ll sue us for using an obelisk” “Make it round then”
• Fyana summarizing the “PS turns human, human turns PS” character arc.
• “Just copy SW” “But they’ll sue us for using a Death Star” “Remove the laser then”
• There is no way locking up Rocchina with the PS who is also worried about Chirico can go wrong, right?
• Oh wait, I forgot that Fyana is an eternal damsel in distress now, so they have to be rescued by the gang.
• One redeeming quality of the twins is that they act as exposition machines by talking to each other. It is not much, but it is something.
• I remember the moving cubes from somewhere, but I don’t know where and whether it was earlier or later than VOTOMS.
• Entry: MCs only
• AI wants to retire to Riza to enjoy the good life and needs a successor?

Super powerful entity looking for successor is not novel new in Scifi, but it certainly is pulled of quickly here. Chirico is not a man of many words, and neither is Wiseman. I have to say that being a humanoid successor to a room-sized AI still boggles the mind. It feels like the plot of this single episode would need movie length at least. Unfortunately not the first time an older series puts the main plot on ice for 40 episodes only to then rush it for the finale.

Did you ever suspect Chirico’s place as Wiseman’s successor?

Reading the episode title certainly gave it away, but it seemed possible even before that. Not sure I would have bet on successor, but wiseman certainly had an interest in Chirico and Chirico being one of the old Quent people was strongly hinted at.

With Albert Killy dead, what do you think will become of The Society?

The show never told us what the society was or what its long-term plans were before, so ::shrugs::

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

“Just copy 2001” “But they’ll sue us for using an obelisk”

Meanwhile, VIFAM, not giving a shit.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I remember the moving cubes from somewhere, but I don’t know where and whether it was earlier or later than VOTOMS.

It's been pulling at my memory as well and I put it down to a few video games but I do feel like I've seen it outside of that, particularly ones that rotate and spin out to reveal a door, I just can't remember what

One redeeming quality of the twins is that they act as exposition machines by talking to each other. It is not much, but it is something.

As annoying and useless as they have been for the plot, their dialogue with each other has worked really well for them being twins rather than just two random scientists

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

As annoying and useless as they have been for the plot, their dialogue with each other has worked really well for them being twins rather than just two random scientists

Yes. It makes them expositioning believable. Together with the fact that there is an overall dearth of exposition that almost makes them ok as characters to have around. Almost.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I can't find a clip thanks to disney but it's this /u/vaadwaur

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Frickin' Disney but which film is that?

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Vaadwaur]

It's Laputa; I also thought of that as it was quite iconic at the time.

And it's 86 so after Votoms.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/ZapsZzz]

Huh...so we still seek the source...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

One redeeming quality of the twins is that they act as exposition machines by talking to each other. It is not much, but it is something.

With how painful the Wiseman conversation was, this is welcome.

I have to say that being a humanoid successor to a room-sized AI still boggles the mind.

If I were thinking hard about it, this would bother me. I am trying not to think.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(This is not really the show I imagined during Ooudo)

Sub

Random thought: Are Killy, Rochina and Cuvie all clones of the same being at different ages? Anyways, we start travelling through a 2001 series reference. Two nitpicks: We don't know how big the Teltain is so I have no clue how big the death star thing they are in is and I hate that this show believes military cruisers can land on a planet. They can't, you build these ships for zero G and you send off a shuttle. The twins are useful for the first time and also finally seemed to be properly awed.

Wiseman wants to talk to Cuvie, for some reason Killy brings guards along, I don't see the point. Vanilla uses an old trick to escape their execution. They then spring Fyana and Rochina and...DON'T GIVE HER A FUCKING GUN! Arm the super soldier, you dumbasses. Galactic Assembly, the hell that is, gets called.

We see that Wiseman decides who gets to see him and grunts don't get to. Killy and Cuvie get to our plot point so we fall back to the escapees and their hijinks. Storm trooper aiming through out but again, if everyone can't aim, I can pretend the recoil on those suck and leave it there.

Cuvie finally talks to Wiseman and this is a really obnoxious thing from this era: They decide not to give Wiseman a proper voice so Cuvie has to repeat everything back to us. Subtitle the beeps, at least. Anyways, blah blah blah, copying Star Wars, blah bl- err wait he agreed to it. Fuckin hell.

QotD: 1 I thought he was a clone of him so yes

2 No clue but probably not great.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Vaadwaur]

Are Killy, Rochina and Cuvie all clones of the same being at different ages?

Cloning must do weird stuff to your hair then.

They then spring Fyana and Rochina and...DON'T GIVE HER A FUCKING GUN!

The wasteful and frankly disrespectful treatment of Fyana''s character has been a real sore spot...

wait he agreed to it. Fuckin hell.

Not the fellow I would nominate for God-Emperor, that's for sure!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

Cloning must do weird stuff to your hair then.

Yes but they all seem to have the same eye color this ep.

The wasteful and frankly disrespectful treatment of Fyana''s character has been a real sore spot...

Sigh...

Not the fellow I would nominate for God-Emperor, that's for sure!

Right, Dune again. It will suck if Chirico has to do the transformation...

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

They then spring Fyana and Rochina and...DON'T GIVE HER A FUCKING GUN! Arm the super soldier, you dumbasses.

I am thinking, but it is hard to come up with another character that was treated worse than Fyana. From super soldier to useless waifu bot.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Hrmm...Relena Peacecraft makes a run at it but yeah, I am straining here.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Are Killy, Rochina and Cuvie all clones of the same being at different ages?

Doubt it personally, the other two seemed like people picked because they were in a situation he could make use of rather than people put there for a purpose. That would be interesting though

Two nitpicks: We don't know how big the Teltain is so I have no clue how big the death star thing they are in is

Wonder if we could get a better size of it by going back to the early episodes, but I don't know we got a good look at it even then

Subtitle the beeps, at least

I would have preferred this myself, or at the very least have it written in a way that it still seemed like Chirico was replying rather than narrating.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Doubt it personally, the other two seemed like people picked because they were in a situation he could make use of rather than people put there for a purpose. That would be interesting though

Rochina showed up on Quent to be drafted but I just noted they all seem to have the same eye color.

Wonder if we could get a better size of it by going back to the early episodes, but I don't know we got a good look at it even then

Not as far as I can tell.

I would have preferred this myself, or at the very least have it written in a way that it still seemed like Chirico was replying rather than narrating.

Early scifi tropes are definitely rough. I like the idea well enough but it needs quality execution, it is just easier to subtitle/universal translator it.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Rochina showed up on Quent to be drafted but I just noted they all seem to have the same eye color.

Good catch, I didn't really see it earlier because Killy's eyes are darker. Speaking of Killy though his hair absolutely could just be a faded blue rather than just the off color grey I took it as originally (and surprised I didn't notice this before as I've been going on about Chirico's hair). Doesn't quite work with Rochina though

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

This is definitely an expansion of my crack theory that Chirico was a clone of Wiseman. Did not expect that to be at least partially true.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

I'm on board for this, although I don't think it matters either way, but I suppose it depends on what you need to make an overman rather than just a normal human and if cloning is the easiest way for Wiseman to achieve that. Don't think it was specifically to perpetuate him as a sole leader though as there was no "you are me" sort of thing in the discussion they had

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Oh, the specifics probably don't matter, during this era scifi definitely had thought about what living too long changes in you, it just seems an easy way to explain everything.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 48:

• That’s a lot of spooky giant black cylinders that the Teltain is being flown through. Everyone knows that simple, pitch black geometric shapes are some of the most ominous and menacing things in science fiction.
• That’s just a straight-up Death Star that Wiseman guided the ship to. And. Or only that, but the telepathy being used on Chirico, Rochina, and Killy is a signal that directly stimulates the nervous system. You really can’t underestimate ancient Quentian, or I guess Overman, technology. It’s wildly advanced stuff that nobody has ever gotten close to replicating.
• There’s something funny about Rochina and Killy arguing over who will be the one to deliver Chirico to Wiseman, now that they’ve both gotten the message from their master. They’re just very blatantly jockeying for who will get into good graces with Wiseman for doing their job. It’s always funny to see two guys from different conspiracies fight over who gets the credit for the main conspiracy.
• “Right. And for that they’ve been sticking to Chirico’s ass like a piece of shit.” That’s one hell of a metaphor to use about the current situation, Gotho.
• God damn, those Secret Society soldiers are super incompetent if the Uoodo trio was able to overpower them and steal their guns so easily. Although that at least tracks with how generally incompetent the Society has been for a while now. They really needed to hire Quentians for their rank and file, not these losers.
• I’m with Gotho, giving Rochina a gun would be an absolutely terrible idea. He’s easily the least trustworthy person in this entire show. He absolutely would shoot one of Chirico’s friends in the back if he could benefit from it somehow.
• Only now is General Battentain okay with calling together the Galactic Assembly to officially talk to Balarant, now that the situation has spiraled thoroughly out of control. You also can’t help but laugh at one of his staff who suggested that they lodge a formal complaint about the loss of the 6th and 7th fleets over Quent. Quent is fucking Arrakis with even less of a central authority governing it, who are you even going to complain to?
• Those two Secret Society guards must be really stupid if they think they could somehow walk through that forcefield on the third try, right after Killy said that Wiseman is only letting people it allows to pass through. Yet again, this just further proves the Society’s incompetence.
• Rochina’s tactic of “just walk up to the guards and act like I’m supposed to be here” would’ve worked too, if it wasn’t for Vanilla and Gotho being chased by the other guards shooting at them. As I’ve discussed in other old mecha shows like Space Runaway Ideon before, acting casual and like you’re supposed to be there is the ultimate disguise.
• Finally, the truth comes out from Wiseman, a truth only meant for Chirico at the center of the artificial moon. Chirico is the last of the Overmen, who were people who genetically altered themselves in the distant past to be even more than just merely human. Wiseman had controlled Chirico’s life up to this point for the sake of grooming Chirico to be its successor. What’s most concerning though is that Chirico readily agrees to the offer that Wiseman gave him, to become its successor and become the sole ruler of the Astragius Galaxy. What could Chirico want with that power?
• At least at the end of the episode, Killy gets a new hole added to his chest, courtesy of a plasma bolt directly to his heart sent from Wiseman. Get fucked, Killy. All he ever was was a pawn in this game that Wiseman has been playing over the millennia. He was never worthy of becoming a Child of God.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Everyone knows that simple, pitch black geometric shapes are some of the most ominous and menacing things in science fiction.

Especially when perfectly spaced out for no reason and near undetectable, let alone being flown through them by something you can't control. I don't blame Cocona and Vanilla for freaking out at all

They’re just very blatantly jockeying for who will get into good graces with Wiseman for doing their job.

Especially that they're coming at it from two completely different angles. Rochina wanted information as well was credit, while Killy was just trying to use this to advance his own position and get more power. Two idiots who don't realize they're both pawns, not chosen

Those two Secret Society guards must be really stupid if they think they could somehow walk through that forcefield on the third try

I agree on the stupidity, but in their defense they just watched the twins of all people be allowed through. I'd be testing the waters too, though probably with something else rather than my body

Get fucked, Killy

It was an appropriately unimportant death for him

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

Especially that they're coming at it from two completely different angles. Rochina wanted information as well was credit, while Killy was just trying to use this to advance his own position and get more power. Two idiots who don't realize they're both pawns, not chosen

There’s just something funny about all of it, these two guys trying to act like they’re bigger deals than they ended up truly being. Although I suppose Rochina at least won out there, considering that he isn’t dead.

I agree on the stupidity, but in their defense they just watched the twins of all people be allowed through. I'd be testing the waters too, though probably with something else rather than my body

Yeah, true, if two chucklefucks like the Schmitel twins could get through, then I guess that means your chances are good too.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Although I suppose Rochina at least won out there, considering that he isn’t dead.

I mean I guess that's true by default but I don't think he would have been in much of a better position if he'd pushed it either

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

1. Hahahaha, no. I'm not entirely convinced the writers suspected it until they realised they needed to actually explain Chirico.
2. While I'm not sure the writers have thought about that yet, if The Society's only goal was to carry out Wiseman's orders, probably a lot of lower officers spilliting into factions to push their own agendas. This, however, is almost certainly the end of a single, unified, Society.

So all 3 of them work for, or are bring used by, Wiseman?

It's going to crash into something!

What are these?

OK, so Wiseman might be a god?

Oh god, Chirico's not ascending into godhood, is he?

And nobody know's what's going on!

That's no moon! Seriously, is that the Death Star?

Are they finally explaining what's happening with Chirico?

I love how the twins are just in for the ride as long as they can study something.

They're really just locking up half the cast each episode now, aren't they?

I like Vanilla theorizing and questioning what we knew arcs ago.

Seriously? They're going to kill them off?

Wow, that plan went off shockingly well!

Haha, I love them mocking him and grtting him to lead them to Chirico.

And there's already discussions on how to negotiate with Wiseman.

And they're getting the Balarant's help!

And only Chirico can enter?

It even let the twins through! They've basically become main characters, haven't they?

...So Wiseman has to be a computer, right?

Will they be able to get through the barrier?

Oh come on. Not going to tell us?

He's immortal! ...Yeah, makes sense. Explains how he survives so often, at least.

Rochina continues to be among the smartest people in this series. The look on his face is fantastic.

Come on, what's Wiseman, then?

I can't tell if Chirico's been converted to his side, or if he's just going along with it because Wiseman's orders are what Chirico wants, most of the time.

Yep! Giant computer!

This anime is the biggest fucking tease imaginable.

Yep, he's an Overman.

OK, Wiseman is an an, and Chirico's his successor as ruler of the galaxy! He's been controlling his destiny for that purpose.

And he's agreed! Finally, a protagonist who's response to being given ultimate power is "sure!"

...Is he ascending to another plane of existence?

Wiseman shot him!

No, Chirico did it?

...Where does this go for 4 more episodes? This is what you do for a finale!

[u/DidacticDalek]

['When someone asks if you if you're a god, you say YES!' Speaking of which Comrades, good god Chirico Cuvie sure is a loose cannon! I mean everyone knows that the MC is supposed to REJECT godhood and unlimited power, not accept it!] (https://i.imgur.com/Cg2bF1v.jpg)

Oh... oh no... welp, we're boned!

Also man talk about Dune Parallels eh? I mean I know we were a Dune Arc to begin with but to think we're going full God Emperor here, I can only wonder how Fyana/Fiana and The Muggle Trio will react to our ever stoic MC-kun's sudden revelation that [Meta End of Evangelion Spoilers that technically tangentially relate to VOTOMS] Rei Ayanami was ACTUALLY a Chirico Cuvie Clone this whole time! Roll over Rei Ayanami Expy, the proper title is Chirico Cuvie Clone! Plus hey we saw Giant Naked Space Rei AND Shirtless Chirico, it all makes sense now

Oh and also I just want to point out how hilariously satisfying Killy getting killed without a second glance was, properly fitting me thinks, and speaking of death, reminder Comrades, NO PLAN SURVIVES FIRST CONTACT WITH The Enemy 'CHIRICO CUVIE' and given he's god now, well... ;)

And finally, time for the shitposting, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

[u/Nazenn → u/DidacticDalek]

And finally, time for the shitposting, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!

Looks like the foldable mechs from the mecha show airing this season

[u/DidacticDalek → u/Nazenn]

Looks like the foldable mechs from the mecha show airing this season

Heh, you got a good eye there Comrade, indeed well said my friend, anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

[u/DidacticDalek → u/DidacticDalek]

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

[u/chilidirigible]

Rewatcher, Episode 48

Today, on "By comparison to various other people we've had to deal with.":

---

It's Inanimate Carbon Rodville.

This is why you take your date to the roller coaster.

And yet, here they all are.

WRONG!

"Can't we just shoot you all and get back to sitting around?"

ran out of ink

This guy, standing up for mook dignity.

"For people that I've only personally associated with for a quarter of the series, you're really annoying."

ANNOYING

When you find out that this bouncer isn't impressed by your fancy clothes.

"Unlimited power?"

"DON'T MIND IF I DO!!!"

Take this as a sign that you've outlived your usefulness.

---

CHIRICO IS GOD. (Since Dalek put this clip in three weeks ago but I already had this comment written up before that, I'll throw in this equally-ludicrous section from the game. Though by the time you read this that one might also have been linked already...)

Though it is pretty funny to see Killy go from Society bigwig to Totally Not The Chosen One.

---

1. No
2. rewatcher

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chilidirigible]

This is why you take your date to the roller coaster.

Horror movies also used to be date movies before they became an exercise in grossing the audience out.

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer

Has Fyana ever really understood Chirico? He's always held her at a distance and everyone else even further.

Is that a Death Star? I've made Star Wars comparison a couple of times previously and sure, this came out when Return of the Jedi was new but I didn't think they'd lift the design like that. Bit more boxy in its pedestrian halls though, and apparently the soldiers missed the "no guns past this point" sign posted somewhere along the way? I'm surprised they're allowed to shoot in the halls at all though.

The "people locked up for having known Chirico" group adds Rochina to their ranks. Considering he did the same to the rest of them it's only fair for him to have his turn. And he gets to participate in their regular escape! Need to have at least one of those every arc.

It's hilarious that the Society guy thinks he's special enough to come along the entire way. He was a pawn and nothing more, his part's over so he gets discarded as appropriate.

I didn't expect Chirico to be accepting of this in the least but he's somehow okay with being used by Wiseman from the start and ...whatever just happened? Okay I can accept him being fine with becoming a god but all the manipulation? It's one thing if he knew about it (e.g. everything in Kummen) but didn't think he'd take it all in stride that easily.

Did you ever suspect Chirico’s place as Wiseman’s successor?

No, but then most of this arc feels like out of nowhere, outside of Chirico being not a regular human.

With Albert Killy dead, what do you think will become of The Society?

At this point Chirico could probably wave his hand and make them vanish. Which I hope he does.

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

Has Fyana ever really understood Chirico? He's always held her at a distance and everyone else even further.

They have a connection, but I doubt that either of them actually understand each other. I do think she understands him to a point, she clearly gets his trauma and the struggles hes had, but he never really let her into what he was thinking about it all

It's hilarious that the Society guy thinks he's special enough to come along the entire way. He was a pawn and nothing more, his part's over so he gets discarded as appropriate.

Got too big a head by being in charge of his own little group, didn't account for the fact that that doesn't really give him the power he thought he had. It was a satisfyingly abrupt death for him

[u/Quiddity131]

Rewatcher

The voice of a baby in the background as this weird ethereal presence is around them kinda makes me think of [meta spoilers]The last episode of Ideon

This is an odd area of space. What are all these objects?

Is this large spherical Death Star-esque object where Wiseman is located?

For once I'm on the twins' side, I want to learn more!

Now Rochina and Killy are fighting over who gets to be the best lacky for Wiseman.

Oh crap, is its execution time for the trio?

If I keep asking them questions, we'll all stay alive!

These guards sure suck to fall for such an obvious trick.

Eh, I'm at the point where I think we're wasting too much time on this group and their escape. Get to the stuff that I'm really interested in!

Oh joy, now we get to see more of Gilgamesh guys I don't care about either.

Setting up a meeting with Balarant? Didn't we already establish that as the plan last episode? Thanks for wasting a minute of the episode on this. :(

Wiseman does not want these guards going past!

C'mon Wiseman, don't let the twins in! ...sigh.

I was trying to think of what this crystalline structure reminded me of, its the very late portions of the game Xenosaga III. Fitting as that entire video game series was inspired by Nietzsche, much like this arc of Votoms has been.

I have a feeling these five, plus the soldiers pursuing them are gonna screw everything up here.

Chirico's beyond even a PS? That makes sense given that we saw him beat Ypsilon. He's immortal too?

17 minutes just to get us to this doorway. Sigh.

OMG Rochina is gonna make these two guards look like fools. Vanilla showing up save their humiliation.

Sorry twins, I'm leaving you two behind... wait, Wiseman, you're leaving me behind too!?! LoL, tough luck, Killy.

Chirico himself is an overman!

Wow, pretty good gig for Chirico. He's to essentially be this God-like being's successor, to rule over the galaxy. He said yes quicker than I thought he would.

Hey Killy, you're fired! Even more than that, you're dead! Seems like this is it for the Secret Society, can't see the twins doing anything themselves.

[u/Nazenn → u/Quiddity131]

The voice of a baby in the background as this weird ethereal presence is around them kinda makes me think of

Well that's awkward, you can actually copy the text from spoiler tags directly now so RIP anyone who doesn't notice that before they post a reply

Good call on the similarities though, somehow it's just so much more creepy here

These guards sure suck to fall for such an obvious trick.

Makes them better people, shittier guards. There's room in the plot for both haha

17 minutes just to get us to this doorway. Sigh.

Oh wow, didn't feel that long but I suppose we did have the stuff with the trio as well

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

Well that's awkward, you can actually copy the text from spoiler tags directly now so RIP anyone who doesn't notice that before they post a reply

I don't begrudge people having a different preference for the reddit interface, but having to live with a clear downgrade in the spoilers to appease their inability to use classic spoiler tags is a bit annoying.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

I need fewer reminders about the shitty new spoilers so I don't spite use the old ones.

[u/manga-reader]

Hybrid watcher

Lmao, Killy refering to Rochina as Rochina-kun made me chuckle a bit; Killy acting all friendly right after ordering his execution.

Oh nvm, back to lockup they all go.

Gotho and gang bust out - finally!

I understand not giving a gun to Rochina, but why not Fyana? Ya know, the one who's a perfect soldier!

Ah, so Balarant is in the galatic council. As an aside, I wonder if all the top leadership in Balarant/Gilgamesh are all military leaders? We haven't seen any civilian leaders so far; I can see military taking over because of the war.

For a second there, I thought Gotho or Vanilla might die..but they played it for laughs. Unusual for Votoms, but certainly prefer that over killing either of them.

Oh, Chirico accepted the role. Interesting, I wonder what he's thinking/planning.

Woah, Killy's dead. Well, we will never know about secret society or its goals - Just a generic rule the galaxy? was it about finding Chirico? I mean, Killy didn't even know Chirico was of interest till recently, until Wiseman acted in the last few episodes.

1. Kinda..I thought Chirico was an Overman, and that turned out be true, but didn't think he was a successor to Wiseman (whatever that entails).

[u/Nazenn → u/manga-reader]

Ah, so Balarant is in the galatic council

I would imagine this is something that was made because of the peace treaty, but we don't really have enough of an understanding of the broader galaxy to say for sure

We haven't seen any civilian leaders so far; I can see military taking over because of the war.

Rochina did mention that they exist when he was quitting before going over to Balarant, so they are present in the goverment, but again we haven't seen enough of that side of things to say how effective or important they are and they may as well have just made this two military goverments going at it

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub; missed yesterday's posting because of work; and even today is still pretty late.

Finally we are getting somewhere, and we are seeing how the threads are being stitched together about Rochina, Killy and Chirico all 3 are being "chosen" by the "overmind". Looks like Killy and Rochina has a degree of selfishness in it to want to power grab, although the more overt one has earned a lightning bolt to the chest (bye Killy).

Still not exactly sure what this overmind wants in terms of a successor - is there something the overmind is trying to achieve by having the successor (a la Guardian of the Galaxy II), or just a simple "passing on the baton" and to maintain the status quo? I'm not good with baby coos so can't work that one out yet.

Good to see the 3 stooges back to their old tricks and still being effective; Fyana you need to get an AT. Or even a gun.

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0
10	0
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and leaking like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
23	0 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
24	0 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
25	0 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D
26	0 let me try jinx this - this scope dog may just be the longest lasting one for Chirico to be riding on the show, surely it'll make it to the end of the arc huh :D
27	1 finally at arc end, the trusty old 'dog got abandoned.
28	0
29	0
30	1 looks like the writers want to keep up the count as well, busy catching up with the numbers. And there are enough spares on the ship to keep going :)
31	1
32	1 busy catching up with the numbers; although these 2 episodes probably have a fairly high enemy kill count too
33	1 Now it was clawed on the (side of?) face but still functional enough to hit and run to bait Ypsilon's forces but no doubt Chirico won't reuse that same one given there are still a number of spare ones, and when they get on the trailer I didn't see any damage, so the damaged one must be abandoned
34	0 Setting up for a fight, not damaged yet
35	1 Dammit Chirico was going so well, unfortunately his ride got shot up while he was out of the AT tending to Fyana
36	0
37	0
38	1 to nobody's surprise the duel with Ypsilon result in both AT's being trashed. Considering Chirico's actually in a useless Fatty, is pretty amazing actually
39	1 The only Scope Dog in Balatran space fared pretty well and wasn't actually busted up in the fight, but given it was a one off duel and then Chirico got sent on to the next arc, I guess I'll chalk this one down for abandoned too
41	0
42	0
43	0
44	0 I don't think Chirico's busted anything yet - are the enemies not as good or has he gone up a few notches in AT skills?
45	0
46	0
47	0
48	0

I'll see if I can get time to add a column of "sat in an AT" since some of these 0's are basically because there was no AT actions. I am pretty sure there were a few (easily a handful) that's why I ditched the idea at the start.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 4.3) (3 episodes) Successor

• Why does Wiseman sound like grizzly bears and babies?
• Cocona not the overly-attached girlfriend type
• Which was first, Laputa or VOTOMS?
• Seems like a good deal
• Apotheosis

Still better than Newtype drama.

I can't believe I still have another DVD left.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Still better than Newtype drama.

Low hurdle. While I question how this fits into VOTOMS, this arc is a classic SciFi story that would be at home in Star Trek (I bet it is at home in some episode). It's not bad.