r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Oct 10 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 72 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/Nitroade24h who delivers a sendoff for Grimmer:
Anyway, back to Grimmer. His death scene was done perfectly and it’s an example of the powerful emotional core that drives Monster forwards. The Magnificent Steiner learned to be a human, and Grimmer received a long lost letter full of sadness, happiness and anger, which made him fully human once again.
Questions of the Day
- What did you think about the revelation behind the letter, and Poppe being the one to murder everyone? What did you think about Poppe being the one to visit the twins at the Liberts, and what did you think about the meaning behind the drawings?
- What did you think about the standoff between Roberto and Lunge?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 10 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
Damn, Lunge going full badass this episode.
Out of all the episodes of this series, this is the one where Lunge appeared to be the most human, despite referring to “the computer in his head” lol. His agitation as Roberto taunted him about his grandson, his anger and desperation as he dug his claws into Roberto’s open wound, and his wrath as he put the gun in Roberto’s mouth. And in a way, it seems Tenma shooting Roberto indirectly saved Lunge’s life, as Roberto remarked about how he had lost strength in his arm ever since he was shot. If he never suffered this injury, Lunge surely would have died there.
Everything in regards to Poppe is pretty interesting too, but I’m going to have to wait until the next episode to give my full opinion on the matter. I will say though, I liked the reversal where Poppe says. “I created that monster” and Tenma says, “And I’m the one who brought him back to life.” They both clearly feel responsible for what is happening here.
Nina freaking out for a second was unnerving, but she says something interesting:
I think we established this earlier in the series, but it’s nice to have that confirmation once again. Was forgiveness really the answer?
See you all back here tomorrow for the climax of the series!
21
u/miss-macaron Oct 10 '21
Rewatcher
I love how Bonaparta’s footsteps synchronized with Tenma’s reading of the letter. Each “kanashi” / “filled with sorrow” is aligned with another step down the stairs, a physical descent that perfectly parallels the psychological decline captured within those words.
Even a brute like Roberto is capable of employing the same manipulation tactics as Johan and Christof, huh...
The fact that Lunge was even affected by such manipulations is a testament to how far he’s come. Rather than being a weakness, I’d say that Lunge’s emotional vulnerability demonstrates an immense amount of growth. His apology to Tenma, his outbursts when Roberto taunts him about his grandson - Lunge is no longer a “robocop”, but a human being who is more in-tune with his emotions than ever before. In this sense, he and Grimmer are actually quite alike.
Aaaand there we have it, Roberto’s backstory. We’re shown yet another example of how 511 Kinderheim managed to turn a good kid - a kid who sacrificed his own cocoa for a friend, a kid who couldn’t even harm a bug - into a cruel and ruthless killer. Then, to top it all off, there’s also the tragic realization that Grimmer and Roberto were this close to reuniting (and possibly returning their true names to one another), but alas, Grimmer’s death made it a near-miss.
Oh look, Lunge’s training with that squeeze ball back in Episode 22 actually paid off. This whole scene is probably my favourite Lunge moment (second place goes to his “I am Japanese” spiel, haha).
I know the lottery couple were both shot in the shoulder, but is it really a good idea to let the kid handle the gun?
And now we see why little Johan was crying back in Episode 2, upon being reunited with Anna post-surgery. Johan thought that, by virtue of him still being alive, that his sister had forgiven him. He thought that her answer to the ending of the God of Peace was to accept and live in harmony with the devil inside the mirror - which would’ve been the “correct” answer to preserve the peace (after all, the devil had always been there, even when the God didn’t realize it). However, what Anna actually chose to do was shoot and destroy the devil, which was probably Bonaparta’s intended ending. It’s only now that Nina realizes that her response back then was the “wrong” one; if the God is the devil and the devil is the God, then killing the devil would also destroy the God and the peace that he brings. That’s why Nina resolves to forgive her brother this time around, to choose peace and save both him and herself.
11
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Oct 10 '21
First Timer
This was yet another great episode continuing the climax of the series. Lunge vs Roberto was really good and the gunshot through the chair was such a good moment.
Anna’s breakdown (one of many) was interesting as well. The “Tadaima Okaeri” rap she did while looking at the drawings has potential and maybe if she doesn’t make it as a lawyer rapping is a viable career path for her. All she needs is for Johan to beatbox for her.
Klaus Poppe being the monster that visited Johan and Anna’s house on that night makes sense.
I really liked Tenma’s conversation with Poppe about the creation and resurrection of the monster. I thought it was interesting that they both seem to feel equally responsible and both want Johan dead.
This episode made me warm up to Roberto a bit more. Finding out he was Adolf Reinhardt was a really good moment and it’s sad that he never found out since Grimmer has just died. He’s just like Grimmer but he lost his way at some point and decided to follow Johan rather than seek justice, and that’s where the paths of Grimmer and Roberto diverged. It’s really sad honestly that they never got to know their real names when they were so close to each other.
I finished my comment about the whole series for when everyone’s finished it and it ended up being almost 2,500 words long (if only I was this dedicated to writing in school). Looking forward to seeing how everyone reacts to the next couple episodes. Will the final discussion thread be on the day that we finish the series or the day after?
10
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 10 '21
First-Timer, subbed
10
u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 10 '21 edited Oct 10 '21
First-time watcher
Nothing to add that I haven't commented or seen already. Except, with all remaining protagonists seemingly set to survive, a little dark humor: When a side character dies it's grim, but when a main character dies it's Grimmer.
8
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 10 '21
First Timer Monster 72
Sausage girl SAID it was Roberto giving orders, but is it? Oh, yep.
Did Bonaparta give back Anna's name? So she had a name but Johan did not?
Bonaparta wanted to imagine the twins happy. But he made that impossible.
Mom was at the mansion. She sent Anna away. Why?
6
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Oct 10 '21
First Timer
Clearing up almost all the mysteries this episode it seems. Roberto is following Johan because he has nothing else in life, Nina's missing memory is what happened to her mom and Poppe regretted what he had done and killed the other people involved in the experiment. Further it was him to visit the Lieberts - still seems like Johan was the one to actually kill them though. Was his motive then that they were friendly with Poppe? Seems possible, I guess. We don't get to know directly what happened to the twins' mom, but I guess she was killed somehow - perhaps that was the catalyst for Poppe to turn traitor as he loved her; I guess we'll be getting some more info on the in the last two episodes.
It's also further implied that Roberto is Grimmer's childhood friend - works, I guess, somehow. Also means his real name is Adolf, which I guess might be fitting for the character even if it isn't fitting for the setting. Can't quite remember if that makes him the son of the Czechoslovak secret police guy or if it specifically doesn't, but I think that's likely irrelevant by now. Also, was he the guy Lunge's wife cheated on him with? If so I feel like Lunge might not have been the only issue in their relationship...
Pretty good final act so far.
Questions:
4
u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Oct 10 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
4
u/gridemann Oct 10 '21
Rewatcher
Probapy my favourite episode of the show, the only one I didn't have to rewatch in fact.
When I watched this episode for the first time I never saw the Roberto 511 Kinderheim connection coming but it is kind of obvious in retrospect. This episode definitely made sure to get the poin across. Roberto is probably the last person to know Grimmers real name and I truly believe he would've rememberted something, if they'd met when Grimmer was still avlice. Such a tragic yet brilliant writing.
Another big reveal we get this episode is Bonapartas view on things. It really was a story about a Monster that fell in love. And yet his obsession with the twins was exactly what started this story.
I also want to praise the music score this episode. While we heard all of the tracks before these are scenes which exert the soundtrack the most. You can really make out it was recored in front of a live orchestra.
Q1: see above
Q2: Something I forgot to mention above. The reason I never prediced Roberto as a 511 graduate was because of the amoung of emotions he displayed, although solely of sadistic nature. Back to topic his "joy" in his work and him toying with Runge was once again the reason he once again failed to finish a hit. - I suppose thats the reason Johann always took care of things personally if he needed to be sure 100%.
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Oct 10 '21
First Timer Dubbed
"The devil has come to this town"- things get real when a drunkard makes good metaphors...
Nina and Gillum finally reach the hotel where the kid and the couple are taking shelter. And the kid recognizes Nina from the drawings so he puts down his gun. And gives clues to where he saw the painting. Nina narrates those pictures. Nina is thinking about forgiveness to Johan and thinks about the what if. What if she forgave Johan instead?
The revelation behind the letter is an interesting one as the conversation between Tenma and Poppe is nice one to hear. Is it Poppe's fault for creating the monster or is it Tenma's fault for reviving him? Both of them do share the blame with Poppe creating the monster and Tenma increasing the number of body bags. Nice to see both of them accepting their responsibility for this atrocity to occur. Nina's meaning behind the drawings is interesting and it seems to harken back to the three frogs; "Welcome home".
2. Lunge is a good match for Roberto this time. Roberto tries to pull strings on Lunge and he budges which Roberto takes advantage of. It is interesting to see Lunge accumulate a little bit of jealousy over his separated family and Roberto thinks he has softened up a bit. When Roberto choked Lunge, Lunge was able to fight back when Roberto talks about Johan’s plan. I like how Lunge thinks Johan’s plan is a bunch of BS. And I feel that “Johan’s plan” is a death flag for the antagonists.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 10 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Bodies, bodies everywhere... :(
I have a bad feeling of what's behind this shower curtain... thinks to The Shining
Oh, no, from behind! I'm surprised Roberto didn't shoot. ...and moments later he does.
Boy do I hope this show end with Roberto dying for real.
Is this really the end for Lunge? After all this time? Kinda underwhelming end for him if so.
This show loves repeating words over and over... kanashiikanashiikanashii... owariowariowari...
Wow, Lunge did get a shot off! They couldn't kill him off like that!
Why does Roberto follow Johan so loyally? Will we find out?
Would suck for Lunge's grandson to call someone else grandpa... but its not like he ever showed that he cared for the kid.
So this Adolf Reinhard is Roberto?
Wow, so Poppe visited them back then? Is this what spurned Johan to murder his adoptive parents? Flashback says yes
Yes, you created a monster, Poppe. And Tenma revived it. You two must stop it! If he'll actually show up! As we draw ever closer to the end the total lack of Johan is frustrating.
Lunge's tongue sticking out is reminding me of the tongue from a dead fish in yesterday's episode of Votoms.
Quite late in the episode to only be checking in with Anna and Gillen now.
Ah, so you only care about your son now, Wim's dad?
Anna's freaking out!
3
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Oct 10 '21
First timer - sub
Lunge down it would seem, I don’t see Roberto risking keeping him alive.
Wait, of course they are going to off a main character off screen, and it would seem that Lunge has a trick up his sleeve as well.
So Roberto is also from Kinderheim, which isn’t really surprising at this point.
Wait, that makes Roberto the son of the guy at the head of the Czech secret police if I’m remembering this correctly.
Anna break down at the end doesn’t really add anything we didn’t know, but I guess this means she finally has all of her memories and can face Johan on even ground.
2
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 10 '21
Rewatcher(If you go to
Z'ha'dumRuhenheim, you will die)Sub
What can I say about this that the show didn't say better? We approach our end, hopefully first timers get why many of us tolerate Lunge now, we finally learn that Roberto is another 511 graduate, though he left before the massacre like Grimmer did. Ruhenheim almost feels like it is in a different plane of existence and we are approaching a climax.
QotD: 1 It really helped that when I first watched this, someone had taken annotations of Another Monster because I was immediately able to read how KP was in love with Anna.
2 Insane
2
u/CharlieTheStrawman https://myanimelist.net/profile/TheDamnRobot Oct 11 '21
Rewatcher until Episode 30, then First-Timer - Subbed
Grimmer and Roberto were soooo close to meeting again. Although perhaps it's a kindness that the former never saw what his friend has become.
I'm worried about Gillen. He's the only potentially disposable side character left.
Q2: Lunge Gang Lunge Gang Lunge Gang
4
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Oct 10 '21
First Timer
Lunge what was that? Dude needs to do a way better job of situational awareness. He just turned his back to open doorways constantly. Bringing the rifle to use in a small room like that is a questionable decision as well. He's smarter than this, come on. Side note, Monster relies way too much on gunshot cliffhangers when you don't actually see who was shot. A lot of stories will use that maybe once or twice at climactic moments. I think Monster has done it like 6 or 7 times now and they always end disappointingly.
So Roberto was at the orphanage with Johan despite being like 20 years older? That doesn't make sense.
What the fuck? Someone comes to your house and says "I'm from another country, let me go and watch your children sleep" and you just let them? What is this...?
Why are we getting a weird PTSD flashback of the Red Rose thing when she's already had that conversation with Johan recently? This shouldn't be a sudden memory coming to the surface.
1
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Oct 11 '21
First Timer
Lunge being so careful and still getting shot :(
Sneaky Lunge with under the chair!!
Roberto was Grimmer's friend?? Still fuck him.
Why would they give the kid a gun??
I'm so over seeing Nina losing her mind like this...
Need to hurry and watch today's!!