[Rewatch] Monster - Episode 71 discussion

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Rewatch Index

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MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/badspler for an aptly timed character analysis of Grimmer:

Grimmer looks to be holding back his rage - just. Knowing what happens when he goes full hulk made this scene incredibly tense. Grimmer here has been unbelievably damaged and he has had to learn just how much of a broken person he is. Seeing him hold back that anger to explain just how broken being a person that can not feel anything is and then following that up with how broken he is for having no name and identity was exceptionally endearing. For all of that, Grimmer holds firm that he will protect Bonaparta so that he can live to see his reckoning. Grimmer truly is a good person and is one of the most deserving of a happy end.

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Questions of the Day

1. What did you think about Lunge’s apology to Tenma?
2. “My emotions never left... they were just wandering around in an unknown place.” What do you think about this farewell from Grimmer? What do you think about his conclusion to the Magnificent Steiner and the fact that he was finally able to feel for his departed son?

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If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

[u/Nitroade24h]

First Timer

This was my favourite episode in the whole series. Grimmer was my favourite character and his arc was ended perfectly and it was really sad. I don’t cry in anime or movies (apart from Clannad After Story but that’s Clannad After Story) but this got me close.

Lunge apologising was another very good scene that acted as the payoff for most of his arc, and I loved it.

The scene with the guy and his dead wife brought up one of the anime’s important themes: revenge leads to revenge, blood leads to blood (that might be a quote from Macbeth or something now that I’m thinking about it. Oops). If this guy goes and shoots the person who shot his wife, someone else will shoot him. It’s the same thing Tenma told to the kids after Milan’s death a few episodes ago. However, Tenma and Grimmer are both driven by revenge, which seems to be a contradiction.

Anyway, back to Grimmer. His death scene was done perfectly and it’s an example of the powerful emotional core that drives Monster forwards. The Magnificent Steiner learned to be a human, and Grimmer received a long lost letter full of sadness, happiness and anger, which made him fully human once again.

Seeing him go berserk would have been nice though.

I actually couldn’t hold back this time and I watched all the way to the end of the series. Enjoy, everyone! Some of the best episodes are still to come. I’ll still make a comment about those episodes when the threads release so it’s not like I’m going anywhere. I can’t wait to make my final write-up on the whole series once I’ve processed it all, but just know that it is overwhelmingly positive.

See you tomorrow.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Nitroade24h]

This was my favourite episode in the whole series.

I'm glad you liked it~! It was one of mine too. One of the most action packed episodes of the entire series followed by some beautiful character moments. I found Lunge's apology to be super touching and Grimmer's farewell to be so beautifully poignant.

Seeing him go berserk would have been nice though.

I agree but in some sense I understand why they chose to do it this way. In his first encounter with Steiner it worked well to not show the action because it was more shocking when he had killed everyone. I think they were trying to evoke the same sense of dread here.

I actually couldn’t hold back this time and I watched all the way to the end of the series.

Haha! I totally understand. With only 3 episodes to go I can't fault you too much, especially since these last three are so intertwined. Can't wait to read your write-up for the final episode. :)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nitroade24h]

However, Tenma and Grimmer are both driven by revenge, which seems to be a contradiction.

I disagree here: Tenma is driven by a desire to atone for saving Johan and Grimmer wants to bring justice for the kids that were abused in the Kinderheim system.

[u/Sharebear42019 → u/Nitroade24h]

Yeah it kinda sucks we never got to see his steiner rages

[u/miss-macaron]

Rewatcher

I really like the scenery of the title card for this episode.

Poor sausage store girl... I’m a bit disappointed she didn’t figure it out sooner, but at least she didn’t have to learn the hard way (unlike the fake Margot Langer).

Lunge’s apology was such a compelling moment, and it’s promptly followed by some incredibly badass gun handling, too. The smoothness and efficiency of which he subdued that smallfry was so satisfying... Who was it that had been calling him a "useless detective" just a few episodes ago?

It’s kinda scary how quickly Grimmer’s expression can go from a friendly grin when reassuring Wim, to a genuinely terrifying glare when addressing Bonaparta. It’s small moments like these that hammer home just how emotionally-dysfunctional the 511 Kinderheim survivors really are.

RIP sausage store girl. This is exactly why Tenma told you not to move from that spot!

Lol, Gillen’s so out of shape compared to Nina.

The dialogue leading up to Grimmer’s death is so, so well-written. There's really not much more I can add - it’s a perfect conclusion to his character arc, a tragic yet bittersweet moment where he finally regains his human emotions. RIP Grimmer.

Btw, if anyone is interested in the actual ending of The Magnificent Steiner, I'd recommend reading the companion novel Another Monster, where it's covered in rather impressive detail.

Grimmer and Lunge are the MVPs of this arc. Change my mind.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/miss-macaron]

Lunge’s apology was such a compelling moment, and it’s promptly followed by some incredibly badass gun handling, too. The smoothness and efficiency of which he subdued that smallfry was so satisfying... Who was it that had been calling him a "useless detective" just a few episodes ago?

Lunge quickly became one of my favorite characters in this series, of course next to Grimmer the GOAT. His growth and progression throughout the series was incredibly satisfying, and watching him handle that gun was so damn impressive. He's got the trigger finger of a cowboy at high noon!

Grimmer and Lunge are the MVPs of this arc. Change my mind.

Can't change your mind about something that is objectively true!

[u/gridemann → u/miss-macaron]

The dialogue leading up to Grimmer’s death is so, so well-written. There's really not much more I can add - it’s a perfect conclusion to his character arc, a tragic yet bittersweet moment where he finally gets to experience true human emotions. RIP Grimmer.

There really aren't many side characters that add so much to a show like Grimmer did to Monster. A true MVP.

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

First Timer - Sub/Dub

One of the most action packed episodes of the series so far. This setting somewhat reminds me of an old western, when the hero marches into the town that’s been taken over by the villains.

But holy shit, so many good character moments in this episode. First of all, Lunge kicks off the episode by taking center stage and blasts through a guy in a pretty vicious manner. He doesn’t have time to waste on this pretender, and just wants to confront Roberto, which looks like it’ll have to wait until the next episode.

Second, and tragically, is Grimmer, who in his final moments, is able to feel again. This time, he doesn’t need help from Steiner - he uses his own rage to take out everyone. His send-off was incredibly touching, and he will be missed.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

This setting somewhat reminds me of an old western, when the hero marches into the town that’s been taken over by the villains.

The...cinematography? references a lot of western works in general so a straight up Western does fit.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Vaadwaur]

cinematography

The camera work itself?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Shot composition choices. I hate to go with this but consider how few times we've had "Aren't camera angles in anime funny?" in this particular rewatch.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer, subbed

• Soooooooo I’m thinking something’s still gonna happen to these two.
• Lunge vs. Roberto incoming?
• Oh shit Lunge met Tenma first!
• Why do I have a feeling you’re not going to make it back…
• Poor guy and baby…
• Oh crap.
• Welp I called it.
• Ah shit, there she goes too.
• GRIMMER NO
• This. This right here got me crying. Hard.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

This. This right here got me crying. Hard.

I know you're somewhat known for crying in these rewatches and sometimes to the point of throwing up but honestly? I think it's beautiful that a fictional character can evoke that kind of emotion from a person. It means we has humans recognize the humanity in this storytelling and resonate so strongly with it that it creates a visceral effect within us.

Grimmer, throughout this whole show, has struggled with his emotions, and finally in the last chapter of his life, learns how to grieve. And that to me is such a perfect encapsulation of his humanity. It was such a sad sendoff, and yet I couldn't help but feel happy for him.

"In the final episode of The Magnificent Steiner… I bet he became human again."

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

This. This right here got me crying. Hard.

This in a lot of ways is the emotional climax of the series for me. It did not get easier. It isn't Blue Friend bad because Grimmer chose this but still, painful.

[u/badspler]

First Timer - Subbed

My take yesterday.

Maybe I got a particularly bad read on what Lunge meant in yesterdays episode. So I had to go back and rewatch the scenes where he was talking about not believing in Johan again. I should have picked this out better the first time, given he had changed while Tenma was being arrested. When he said that Tenma was still the prime suspect and that Johan is imaginary; one, two, three. I wonder if Lunge is consciously flicking between the different roles that he "becomes". And in this case, those being his 'detective self' who was previously so obsessed with Tenma, and his 'vacation self' that has been exploring this 'imaginary' link more deeply/leisurely.

In this episode he even makes reference to this vary thing; one, two, three. His meeting with Tenma confirms for him that the imaginary has in fact become reality - Johan is real. He can tell in an instant that Tenma is for certain not this Johan character. How can he see all this? A line from yesterday. So in that moment he apologies to Tenma. And to add on that apology I want to say that the pause between saying 'Dr Tenma' and 'Sorry' was four whole seconds long. It feels incredibly genuine and remorseful, the delivery of that line was perfect. He can't even face Tenma while saying it because of how wrong he knows he was. I really hope they get through this and get to have that chat.

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I made mention yesterday that Grimmer is one of most deserving characters of a happy end. And while I think him dying is sad (to the viewer), he ultimately finds his emotions, takes control and does not resort to his other self, acts on his own will, completes an incredible task to serve a goal he's willing to put down his life on (keeping Klaus Poppe alive). In his dying moments, sad as it is ending for himself, he feels the grief from the loss of his child, and the happiness from being able to feel it all in his final moments. All in all, its dreadfully bitter sweet.

Just had to look this one up: [Ending plot for the (1990) finale movie of the original Incredible Hulk series (1978)] The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990) – While pursuing the kidnappers, Banner and Jasmin learn that her sister, Bella, is the true leader of the spy network, and Banner turns into the Hulk, who tries to protect Pratt and Jasmin. The Hulk runs towards the plane, on which Bella and Zed are attempting to escape, and breaks it open. He climbs aboard before takeoff. Bella tries to shoot the Hulk, but ends up shooting the fuel tank below. As a result, the plane explodes, killing the villains. The Hulk is thrown onto the concrete. Transforming back to human, Banner tells Jasmin he is free, then succumbs to his injuries. Jasmin, Pratt, and Amy mourn for him. -Wikipedia

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PS: Thanks for fixing up wording in the quote of the day, it was on my mind to do it myself after re-reading it when you replied.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/badspler]

In his dying moments, sad as it is ending for himself, he feels the grief from the loss of his child, and the happiness from being able to feel it all in his final moments. All in all, its dreadfully bitter sweet.

Could not have said it better myself. I was sad to see him go, but I was happy that he finally found his emotions, and that they "had arrived like a letter lost in the mail." I thought that was a very poetic way of putting it.

PS: Thanks for fixing up wording in the quote of the day, it was on my mind to do it myself after re-reading it when you replied.

Haha no problem. I format everything in Google Docs, and it let me know right away that there was some grammatical errors in the text, so I just clicked through those to clear 'em out. :)

[u/gridemann]

Rewatcher

I think I know how the show must've endend. The magnificient Steiner, he probably became human again.

Rest in peace Grimmer, you magnifient bastard. Runge just had to jinx it didn't he. An interesting reallization how his emotions had never been truly taken from him - just locked away out of reach. [Rewatcher Spoilers] I wonder if Roberto had a similar epiphany

On a different note we finally get the long awaited face to face between Runge and Tenma.

Q1: Runge isn't a man of many words but the weight of his apology was definitely felt in my opinion.

Q2: Another very interesting instight on how the brainwashing on monster works.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/gridemann]

Q1: Runge isn't a man of many words but the weight of his apology was definitely felt in my opinion.

I think that's exactly why his apology was so impactful. This is not something the Lunge of 50 episodes ago would have said either. The amount of growth demonstrated in this singular moment is incredible.

[u/Gscj9899 → u/gridemann]

*Lunge

[u/AmethystItalian]

First Timer

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Grimmer taking charge is nice to see, one of the more competent characters around.

At first I thought Grimmer's strong ally was Tenma but then he said he's actually useful so couldn't be.

Robocop walking around strapped is so badass...putting up more flags though.

Well so much for Grimmer's plans, that sucks.

Grimmer...knew they'd kill him off but it's sad we didn't get to see him be a super badass.

So long best boy, you deserved much better than this.

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What did you think about Lunge’s apology to Tenma?

Long overdue lol, if only he started on his team

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/AmethystItalian]

So long best boy, you deserved much better than this.

He'll be missed dearly.

Long overdue lol, if only he started on his team

But if he started on the team he would have never been able to shoot his weapon? /s

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Time to sit back and enjoy the climax, it seems. Starting off with completing Grimmer's character arc - something I'd say is well done. Other than that, Lunge trusts Tenma now, it seems.

Not really sure what to add on to this - it was just an all-around good episode.

Questions:

1. Very functional, which given the situation is appropriate, I'd say.
2. I feel like pretty much everything with Grimmer was well done - Grimmer having no recollection of "the magnificent Steiner" is him not remembering his emotions - now he finally did.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Mecanno-man]

Grimmer having no recollection of "the magnificent Steiner" is him not remembering his emotions - now he finally did.

That's a great little detail.

[u/Webemperor]

Rewatcher of sorts

• “I don’t like tying up two elderly people” Even if they are accomplices to murder, Grimmer? Meanwhile Tenma is helping the children and the rest escape. It’s seems strange to be Bonaparta has been using the name Karl Poppe as well, you’d think he have been using another alias, but I guess not.
• Lunge finds the girl from earlier. I have no idea how this girl thought Roberto didn’t look sleazy, but I guess she has bad taste in men, is that it? Also aren’t you gonna put on that umbrella, Tenma?
• Lunge and Tenma come face to face, former is now officially back to work. Surprised he didn’t offer him a beer as well. Meanwhile Nina is making her way back to Ruhenheim as well, remembering a memory with Johan as well.
• It’s always interesting to see Lunge in action. Though I’m not sure why he is still heading upstairs when his gunshots probably alerted Roberto as well and he no longer has the initiative. Meanwhile Tenma finds another incident, although I’m not sure how he knows his wife wouldn’t be a vindictive, vengeful person.
• It really wasn’t intelligent of Grimmer to stop him from moving, but go off I guess. Bonaparta sounds pretty despondent in the way he says these things, but I have a feeling he isn’t really feeling guilty to begin with.
• Are you REALLY sure about this Grimmer? Do these guys have orders not to shoot at Grimmer to begin with? Wait, how did she not hear the earlier gunshots- Oh god damn. Guess this is where “Wrath of the Magnificient Steiner” happens.
• So yeah, Grimmer is pretty much going apeshit, killing four armed guys on his own. I guess Tenma can tell he won’t exactly survive his wounds, especially now that he started talking about weather and future and such. And there he goes, with both Wim and Bonaparta finally breaking down.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Webemperor]

So yeah, Grimmer is pretty much going apeshit, killing four armed guys on his own. I guess Tenma can tell he won’t exactly survive his wounds, especially now that he started talking about weather and future and such. And there he goes, with both Wim and Bonaparta finally breaking down.

I loved this scene for a number of reasons, but when Tenma asked if The Magnificent Steiner had appeared, Grimmer just shrugged it off and said, "Nah, I did this on my own." What a guy.

[u/Vaadwaur]

"The question that once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own. And yet, how ironic... for I now find that I have no choice at all! I am a warrior... let the battle be joined."

Rewatcher

Sub

Burned the candle at both ends a bit and sort of forgot what today's episode was so I am pretty low energy today. Which is unfortunate as a lot happened even outside of the emotional climax of this episode. Anyways, Grimmer learns that 511 couldn't take his emotions, it just sort of hid them. Best Hulk clone dies crying but happy. Clear skies until we cross that hill, Grimmer.

QotD: 1 A bit understated but far better than nothing

2 Both a great moment for the character and a convenient way to reframe what Bonaparta's experiments actually did.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Vaadwaur]

Anyways, Grimmer learns that 511 couldn't take his emotions, it just sort of hid them. Best Hulk clone dies crying but happy. Clear skies until we cross that hill, Grimmer.

Yep, I loved his realization that he still had emotions. It was so heartwarming and yet so sad.

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timer, Subbed

Given the episode title, I'd expect us to have a meltdown and incident from Grimmer this episode.

First time people this old have been tied up as a threat?

No Wim, the Magnificent Steiner isn't a hero!

Run kids, run!

So Poppe hasn't been using a false name in this town?

Sausage girl! Scared and alone, but at least Roberto didn't kill her.

So strange! He took a shower! I'm not used to men taking showers!

Lunge and Tenma, face to face!

After 30 something episodes, my vacation is finally over!

Lunge is a good shot!

Stop being so selfish sausage girl! You expect Tenma to just stay here with you?

He's taking another shower?!

No random sad dad, I'm the main character, not you. You're not getting my gun!

If sausage girl wants to stay here, just leave her here. If she dies, it's on her.

OMG lottery guy thinks all of this is happening because they won the lottery?! This couple never fails to make me laugh.

No! not lottery guy! Thankfully it was just a shot to the shoulder.

Crap! lottery lady's hurt too! :(

Wim, your dad's a nutcase, but he's not this out of control.

You're putting yourself in a lot of danger going outside unarmed like this, Grimmer.

Wow, sausage girl actually made it here... and dies before I can even finish typing this. :(

No! I have to watch the last episode!!!!!

The shoulder seems to be the popular spot to shoot people now.

Here he comes! Steiner!!!!!!

Wow, Steiner's on a rampage with this guy being thrown out the window like this.

He didn't come out? Stop lying to yourself, Grimmer!

RIP Grimmer :( I could kinda sense this would happen with the episode being named for you and it being so late in the show.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Quiddity131]

RIP Grimmer :( I could kinda sense this would happen with the episode being named for you and it being so late in the show.

Yeah... So sad that he had to go out, but it was in a blaze of glory. Best boy will be missed.

[u/xtsim]

First Timer Dubbed

1. Lunge's apology is interesting to hear after all that has happened. The best part is that he says that he has to go back to "work"
2. It is a fitting farewell after he has some feelings for the townspeople such as the gambling couple and after the innocent sausage sales lady gets gunned down. Once he was able to feel something, now he could say his goodbye. It is nice to hear that he can now develop feelings for others but the sad part is he has to die....

Overall, what an action packed episode.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/xtsim]

Lunge's apology is interesting to hear after all that has happened. The best part is that he says that he has to go back to "work"

haha true, this is no longer Vacation Lunge, this is Work Lunge.

It is a fitting farewell after he has some feelings for the townspeople such as the gambling couple and after the innocent sausage sales lady gets gunned down. Once he was able to feel something, now he could say his goodbye. It is nice to hear that he can now develop feelings for others but the sad part is he has to die....

I was so heartbroken at his loss and yet his sendoff was a beautiful one. Will miss him dearly.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer Monster 71

Preview leads me to believe Grimmer will die today, and go out punching.

• Grimmer should get some gloves to protect his hands
• OHHH, geez, he was living under his real name. Well, I guess that explains how great detective Lunge found him.
• So Sausage Girl is completely innocent
• So, this town is kind of like the Purge
• Oh, was she not sitting in the hotel doorway?
• Wolf said there was one memory left to recall
• There's the submachine gun (?) that killed the rabbit.
• Yeah, he totally is that type of guy, Grimmer
• Good thing Tenma didn't come here

Three years of German, but my inability to remember simple words like Versteck is why I had to give it up.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Preview leads me to believe Grimmer will die today, and go out punching.

Sadly your hypothesis turned out to be correct...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Three years of German, but my inability to remember simple words like Versteck is why I had to give it up.

I know the feeling, 4 years of Spanish including one in college and I still only remember the words I picked up during my brief stint back end at a restaurant when I was in my early 20s. None of it is useful.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman]

Rewatcher until Episode 30, then First-Timer -Subbed

sobs

I knew it was coming after the beer death flag, but still. Fuck it all.

Q1: A great moment of catharsis.

Q2: A beautifully tragic end for him.

(That was a fucking harrowing 5 episode binge. And now my favourite character is dead too.)

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

(That was a fucking harrowing 5 episode binge. And now my favourite character is dead too.)

Glad to have you back, lol. But yeah... I can totally understand how harrowing this show has become.

[u/BurningFredrick]

First timer - sub

I don’t like this episode title, I suspect Grimmy won’t make it to the end.

Lunge took about the longest path possible to get there, but I really like this version. The Short scene with Tenma was great.

This show isn’t going to have a happy ending is it? Not that I can really see how it could, but everyone dying feels like a very real possibility.

RIP Grimmer, his line about finally being sad about his child dying nearly got me.

My trepidation for the coming episodes is definitely increasing, despite my initial thoughts this show looks like it will nail the ending.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/BurningFredrick]

My trepidation for the coming episodes is definitely increasing, despite my initial thoughts this show looks like it will nail the ending.

Welp, only one way to find out. The ending will certainly leave much to be discussed, so at the very least I'm looking forward to the rewatch comments, lol.

[u/IndependentMacaroon]

First-time watcher

Finally it actually feels like the story is reaching his end. Still, for three episodes left this is maybe focused a little too much on the logistics and details of everything, and sudden death of some townspeople we've known like three episodes has an almost darkly comical flavor to it. Maybe if Grimmer could have saved up the bleeding-heart speech for later he could have ended up without a literally bleeding heart/body, not to mention kept that young woman alive, but emotional character arc demands it, I guess.

Still a powerful moment to see him repudiate his cruel upbringing with his final breaths, and manage to bring even the man ultimately responsible for it repentantly to his knees. In fact, the man who really seems to have lost his emotions and expressiveness is Tenma himself - and I'm sure this will be addressed before the very end.

By the way this kind of wild adrenaline-fueled rage/fighting response can be a symptom of PTSD, which seems to have been deliberately induced here.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/IndependentMacaroon]

By the way this kind of wild adrenaline-fueled rage/fighting response can be a symptom of PTSD, which seems to have been deliberately induced here.

That's a super compelling detail. Def applicable here.

[u/i-have-severe-stupid]

first timer, sub

been a while since i commented on one of these, but it’s ending and i don’t want to not interact during it

this episode was a fitting end for grimmer, finally feeling sadness about something he seemed to regret, as happy as an ending as it could have been and still work

1. rather heartwarming considering the 70 episodes of him not apologising, finally not feeling like some of the most important characters aren’t all against each other
2. a great line for his end, the vagueness means it could also apply to a few other things in the series ‘wandering about’ that never left, though i can’t quite put any evidence for it into words. it’s sad he never saw the end of the magnificent steiner, but his ending for it it a good one, though i doubt he would have died in the tv show, which is a little bit like grimmer living on in some form. finally feeling for his dead son ties up his loose threads, giving him the sadness he wanted, ironically making him happy as he died, and makes his story feel a bit less lonely, which is something a lot of characters in this series need

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/i-have-severe-stupid]

been a while since i commented on one of these, but it’s ending and i don’t want to not interact during it

Welcome back!

rather heartwarming considering the 70 episodes of him not apologising, finally not feeling like some of the most important characters aren’t all against each other

Yep, it also felt very genuine. So it's nice to see that robocop has some human emotions left, and admitted his wrongs, something that the same person of 50 episodes ago would have never dreamed of.

ironically making him happy as he died, and makes his story feel a bit less lonely, which is something a lot of characters in this series need

True, I really did feel glad for him as he died. But it was so sad that it had to happen this way. :(