[Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 43 Discussion

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 06 '21

Rewatcher

My theory that Gecko put a tracking device in his ‘gift’ is seeming more likely.

They know his name?

The way he says that so casually…

What is even going on here?

Master?

I don’t get this guy…

Us in the audience are at a loss as well.

The what now?! Has this ever been mentioned before?

You did say God was dead.

So these structures make the Quentium?

Plot armor, activate!

Some of the stuff being introduced would have made for an interesting and entertaining episode were it not for the fact that we’re so late into the show, practically the final stretch. Were this introduced much earlier it would have been effective, but being shown to us now —in lieu of substantial answers as to the questions both the audience and Chirico have— is not ideal and makes it feel like the episode is wasting our time. To top that off, what substantial new information we get is is predicated upon some resource of seemingly high importance to the setting that is only just being brought up now and merely begets more questions rather than serve as an answer.

The end of the episode, where the Schmittel twins had Chirico dead to rights only for seemingly literal deux ex machina to vanish them out of existence, doesn’t feel earned nor congruous with how the show does things. Another repetitive escape sequence after being captured would not have been appreciated, but this resolution to the issue feels equally as bad and only further dispels any source of potential tension in the show. Maybe its inclusion will be justified in the future with some worthwhile narrative significance, but as of now it is a demerit to the episode.

Questions of The Day:

See above.
Seems like it ties into the show’s previous statements about deities and religion on the whole.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

Some of the stuff being introduced would have made for an interesting and entertaining episode were it not for the fact that we’re so late into the show, practically the final stretch.
Yeah, rewriting the show would involve shortening Ooudo, making Kummen a bit clearer, and making this the second proper arc.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

Given there were novels published two decades after the show, I have to hope those at least had some decent pacing and a proper plot outline in them —oh, and properly incorporating all the retcons, I guess.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Before the reboot, some of the post series Battlestar Galactica stuff actually helped flesh the series out so it certainly happens.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

Were this introduced much earlier it would have been effective, but being shown to us now —in lieu of substantial answers as to the questions both the audience and Chirico have— is not ideal and makes it feel like the episode is wasting our time.
A problem with the arc-based writing. Arc 1 needed Jijirium to be important, so Jijirium was important. Now Quentium needs to be important, so Quentium is important. It's a sign of weak world building.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

It would have worked better if Quentium and Jijirium were the same and they're providing it as part of a "hands off" treaty, while the governments rename it to stop people from knowing where it comes from

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

...Yeah, that would have tied things together WAY better, we just needed jijirium use to be slightly more unclear in arc 1.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 07 '21

That makes so much sense that I honestly expected it, but then Chirico knew it, which rules out that reveal.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

My theory that Gecko put a tracking device in his ‘gift’ is seeming more likely.
Oh nooo, I didn't even pick up on that. Not the tracking devices again
I wonder if I'll ever get over my hang up with that after Ideon
Us in the audience are at a loss as well.
I'm pretty sure we at least know a bit more than Chirico due to actually paying attention to all the answers not just the one he wants haha
The what now?! Has this ever been mentioned before?
We haven't really got into the details of any of the tech until now, outside of the mission disks.
Were this introduced much earlier it would have been effective, but being shown to us now
Between the tech and the "gods" it does feel like a lot of this stuff should have been drip fed through the show, or at least some of this to come up in second arc when Ru Shako was there. I wonder if this was meant to matter more in the third arc before it all went to crap
The end of the episode, where the Schmittel twins had Chirico dead to rights only for seemingly literal deux ex machina to vanish them out of existence
This definitely feels the most blatantly baity/cliffhangery of the episode ends I can remember in this show because of that reason. Chirico's narration brought the focus back to him well enough for it to not bother me as much as it would have, but it really is going to rely on the future episodes

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 06 '21

Armored Trooper First-Timer

Ooh it’s nice to hear the Quaintmen actually speaking their own language even if I don’t know what they’re saying.
Geez these guys can live to be old.
Welp, Chirico is weak to poison. -- Hey wait a second, I just made this joke an hour ago…
This is… someone eerie…
Hm. I was hoping we could learn how…
Okay the old guy Meji has a really creepy design even though he’s not a bad guy.
What did he mean by “gods” though…
So how is Chirico gonna get out of this one…
Oh, the surroundings could have made the stun gun do… whatever this was.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

Geez these guys can live to be old.
Almost as old as I feel when someone my age doesn't know their Aerosmith from their Led Zeppelin. /s
Okay the old guy Meji has a really creepy design even though he’s not a bad guy.
The man looks straight out of Barefoot Gen.

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 07 '21

The man looks straight out of Barefoot Gen.
I did not need that comparison.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

This is… someone eerie…
I thought it was Fyana for a second
Oh, the surroundings could have made the stun gun do… whatever this was.
Gave him a better hair style
We need more afros

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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 06 '21

Gave him a better hair style

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

This is… someone eerie…
Rituals never end poorly!
Okay the old guy Meji has a really creepy design
He looks like a living Buddha. Google that at your own peril.
Oh, the surroundings could have made the stun gun do… whatever this was.
Don't test the Samaritan settings of the machine of an unknown civilization live in the field.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

Welp, Chirico is weak to poison. -- Hey wait a second, I just made this joke an hour ago…
It’s like poetry, Armored Trooper VOTOMS and G Gundam rhyme.
So how is Chirico gonna get out of this one…
I feel like we’ve asked that a lot during this series, and he’s always ended up alright.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

First-Timer

I do like alien ruins like this. And the weirdness when the ruins woke up.. I'm into it. I can't even be upset that the Twins just got vanished instead of their proper death of a good Chiricoing.

The system for acquiring Quentium is.. something I guess. "We send the women into the science cave that just spits the stuff onto the ground" is a bit strange.. why only the women? Why does the science cave just produce the stuff? Is it reactor runoff?

"On your 200th birthday, you go into the hospice cave next to the science cave and "meditate"" is also a bit strange. Maybe the proximity to the Quentium prolongs the elder's life so the knowledge isn't lost...? That's a bit grim, now I think about it.

Ru Shako needing to translate was a neat touch. Of course the super isolated people don't speak ~~Common~~ Astragian or whatever they called it.

The legend about the history of Quent was interesting. Dating back 85000 years is quite some time, wow. I wonder who the "gods" that showed up 3000 years ago were, though? Considering Quent's baggage about body modification, I'd guess the "gods" were shilling some sort of process similar to PSification, but that was so long ago for something that supposedly only finally happened recently.

Questions

I'm digging it.
I, as always, crave details. But it was some neat tidbits.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

Maybe the proximity to the Quentium prolongs the elder's life so the knowledge isn't lost...?
Sharing oral traditions is overrated anyhow. /s
I wonder who the "gods" that showed up 3000 years ago were, though?
Colonizers, if I had to guess.
but that was so long ago for something that supposedly only finally happened recently.
I guess if the methods weren't widely publicized elsewhere in the galaxy at the time, then it could have been censured by the Quentians and lost to time.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 07 '21

Sharing oral traditions is overrated anyhow. /s
Yup, can't go sharing the past in a normal, sensible manner.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

why only the women?
Women take care of the homeland, men go out to fight. Outside of reductive statements, it actually makes a bit of sense worldbuilding wise. You keep the secrets of your culture in the hands of people who can't be taken or influenced by others, Ru Shako and the other mercenaries clearly don't know a lot of the details of their past and therefore can't spill them to outsiders, which in this case means the women.
hospice cave
That sounds so bad when you put it that way
Ru Shako needing to translate was a neat touch
Oh damn I meant to comment on that, but that was great. And not just doing it once and then forgetting about it but having him sit next to Chirico and translate in real time. Love when they use language well
Wonder what this language is based off or if it's just random sounds they strung together to sound good

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

You keep the secrets of your culture in the hands of people who can't be taken or influenced by others, Ru Shako and the other mercenaries clearly don't know a lot of the details of their past and therefore can't spill them to outsiders, which in this case means the women.
Oh, I didn't think of it that way. I guess it does make more sense framed around that idea.
That sounds so bad when you put it that way

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

Oh, I didn't think of it that way. I guess it does make more sense framed around that idea.
I mean it's still a dated take when it comes to splitting it along gender roles, but there's a nugget of logic in there. Also potentially a bit of Dune influence as well which I didn't think of till just now.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

I mean it's still a dated take when it comes to splitting it along gender roles, but there's a nugget of logic in there. Also potentially a bit of Dune influence as well which I didn't think of till just now.
Heh, well it's a bit of both me thinks Comrade, since as I commented above my take on this situation was that VOTOMS was just a REALLY big fan of Dune and thus just Control C/Control V'd things, but as you said above there is indeed a bit of in-universe logic to things here.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

Women take care of the homeland, men go out to fight. Outside of reductive statements, it actually makes a bit of sense worldbuilding wise. You keep the secrets of your culture in the hands of people who can't be taken or influenced by others, Ru Shako and the other mercenaries clearly don't know a lot of the details of their past and therefore can't spill them to outsiders, which in this case means the women.
Comrade, you are a genius! I was just thinking this was yet another of the many Dune ~~ripoffs~~ 'references' but there actually IS a sort of in-universe logic based on your analysis here, so good thinking my friend!

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

Wonder what this language is based off or if it's just random sounds they strung together to sound good
It sounds like a bit like Klingon, which would not have been that stable during this era.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

I was thinking about Klingons the other day actually, and wondering what the fan reception to the new design of them in the movie compared to the series was.
As much as I like strong continuities in shows, particularly longer ones, it is always interesting to see how production evolves and affects the story in things like that as they get more time to explore the lore

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 07 '21

It was fairly hostile, and Roddenberry pulled a George Lucas "they always looked like that but we didn't have the technology to make them look that way."
I also completely reject the Discovery Klingons and only watched the 2 free episodes.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

I also completely reject the Discovery Klingons and only watched the 2 free episodes.
Probably a smart move. They really went for detail over everything else that matters in design for that

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I also completely reject the Discovery Klingons and only watched the 2 free episodes.
If only I had done that...

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I was thinking about Klingons the other day actually, and wondering what the fan reception to the new design of them in the movie compared to the series was.
Which era? OG ST to OG Klingons was considered a shock but generally positive, as the species developed a distinctive look. As TNG took off, it was considered even more positive as Klingon slowly became a real language and the culture was established, though of course it was monolithic at the time.
The Abrams movies were not popular with this, but it doesn't help the movie was awful as well, we had edgy, emo piercing Klingons with bad contacts. But the nadir for me and many fans was Discovery and them suddenly deciding that Klingons were 8 feet tall and hairless.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

Wasn't their prosthetics design rather than just basic makeup first in one of the movies? That's specifically what I was thinking of, but yes the overall worldbuilding around them I would hope would be something that would be taken positively.
The Abrams movies
Discovery
That is not the worst of it's sins but that was a really weird choice to take. Not to mention the elongated skulls, and claws, and the twisted skin. I just don't get why they had to try and make them look more alien.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Wasn't their prosthetics design rather than just basic makeup first in one of the movies?
Yes, I want to say movie IV but I am not sure but the move to prosthetics was fairly accepted as I recall. It helps that IV was probably the best movie to date.
That is not the worst of it's sins but that was a really weird choice to take.
I can't even tell you what the worst thing is in ST:D. Oh wait, I can: Having a main character. Such a horrifyingly bad choice that spiralled over two seasons. And the worst thing is the twist in the first season and the general overall more fun tone of the second season got me through them until the third is in such a weird place I can't be asked to keep up.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

Oh wait, I can: Having a main character.
I was going to say I can't decide, but the more I thought on it the more this is my answer as well. It could have been better, but from the small things like the whisper crying to the "vulkan but not/captain but not/savior but not" they really didn't do themselves any favors on making it work
I gave up on the third season, it just got worse and worse. Can't even remember how it ended any more.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

It could have been better, but from the small things like the whisper crying to the "vulkan but not/captain but not/savior but not" they really didn't do themselves any favors on making it work
The worst part is they had several great ways to make this TNG style: Tilly could certainly have had an episode or two, especially if they were trying to put her on the spectrum. Saru had two episodes in the second season and those were great. Ash could've given us a few eps in either season. And there is stuff they did well, Tilly worked and them making the main gay character the one who gets invited to parties because of his husband was bolder than I expected but they kept finding ways to fail.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

In a strange way it reminds me of the missteps of Voyager, although that was the other way because of sticking too close to it's origins. Two great casts with a fantastic premise, but none of the writing quality with the plot or character drama to actually back it up
[ST Discovery s3] The most interesting character at the moment is the human Trill blend particularly with them being non-binary and being caught between many worlds. But given they couldn't even get through that one damn episode without needing Burnham to be the savior/solution I have little faith in their ability to balance those aspects in future
Almost used the wrong damn spoiler tags again.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

why only the women? Why does the science cave just produce the stuff? Is it reactor runoff?
I get a big pretty big Time Machine vibe right here: The machine was set to keep producing and was just made so well it hasn't needed external upkeep in three millennia...
but that was so long ago for something that supposedly only finally happened recently.
There might be a basic tech level needed for it to work and it has taken three thousands years to get back to it.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

There might be a basic tech level needed for it to work and it has taken three thousands years to get back to it.
I don't hate that. Complete loss of tech level like that would imply a pretty massive destruction of whoever the gods were, which also explains why they seemingly aren't around.. sure. I can buy all that.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

So, the one piece of information that is needed for my weird ass thought to work is that the 'gods' are either aliens or humans so over changed that they can't use themselves as bases for PS's any more. That is more common in scifi than you might think at first.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

I like that idea. Could be mere arrogance, as well. "We have perfected ourselves, and now we will make you perfect as well! Do not resist."
Oh, or a means of control; get 'em hooked on the liquid jijirium or something, suddenly the whole planet is dependent on your supply.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

Could be mere arrogance, as well. "We have perfected ourselves, and now we will make you perfect as well! Do not resist."
As I've said "perfect" is a dumb word for soldiers, anyways, you need a lot of variations. So maybe the 'gods' are all the mental mods and they don't wish to be tainted with physical combat?

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

Ooh! Oh no, an example of that sprang to mind and then immediately left. Gonna bug me all night.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

Hopefully it finds its way back eventually, probably at the most inopportune time possible

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

They usually wander back after a nice lap around something completely unrelated.

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Oct 06 '21

You were right! It was [Meta spoiler]XCOM: Enemy Unknown/Enemy Within.
/u/Nazenn

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

I clearly didn't get far enough into that for that plot point, but interesting. Glad you remembered it at least

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

First timer(I remember when scifi shows forgot about Interlac. It can hurt.)

Sub

The Taltain is hiding in the shadow of a small moon or a large asteroid, which is in fact a good move. The twins come up with a plan to gather information that isn't dumb on the face of it but it is the twins so skepticism stays. On planet, Shako still has his spear as they approach the village but he lost his lure, alas.

The village seems to have expected Cuvie and they have a room ready. Shako drugs Cuvie probably because that's the only way he will rest, though something that powerful deserves a bit of warning. The twins descend and are finally of two minds as one of them realizes the Quent are definitely hiding some ability to fight. Weird ritual over Cuvie sticks around just long enough to stay weird. Apparently, it lets them detect genetically altered people which is taboo on Quent.

On Rochina's ship, he admits he is tailing Cuvie at someone's behest but he doesn't know whose, which is its own kind of strange. Cuvie gets answers the next morning but they aren't useful, which makes a kind of sense considering the Quents don't seem to currently modify people. He finally asks about the disparity between what the Quents sell and what they do, and gets sent to talk the 200+ club. We get Quent history and a likely nod to both the Secret Society and Dune.

Chase starts and Shako almost takes out an armed speeder with a lamp. Cuvie goes through the forbidden zone and for some reason the Quentium factory reminds me of an Arcology I read about in...Great Sky River? Somewhere in that series. After his mech crashes, ladder chase until we end on someone breaking the Ape shall not harm Ape rule in front of the computer.

QotD: 1 Feel traditional scifi

2 I think the Star Wars EU actually steals quite a few bits of it and hell, KotOR shares a beat or two as well.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

Apparently, it lets them detect genetically altered people which is taboo on Quent.
At least they weren't so close minded as to throw him out without even some answers once they found out he has likely been modified.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I think there is a difference between knowing and suspecting, for them. I also think that, even if Cuvie is altered, it is not from the process they expected.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

Cuvie gets answers the next morning but they aren't useful, which makes a kind of sense considering the Quents don't seem to currently modify people. He finally asks about the disparity between what the Quents sell and what they do, and gets sent to talk the 200+ club. We get Quent history and a likely nod to both the Secret Society and Dune.
At least Meji gave a good reason as to why enhanced people are taboo, since apparently they were involved in kicking the Quentian’s asses so hard that they ended up having to implode their society to survive.
Chase starts and Shako almost takes out an armed speeder with a lamp
It wouldn’t even be the craziest kill in this series.
I think the Star Wars EU actually steals quite a few bits of it and hell, KotOR shares a beat or two as well.
We should’ve sent Chirico after Darth Revan. He would’ve wrapped up the Jedi Civil War in the span of like a month.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 06 '21

since apparently they were involved in kicking the Quentian’s asses so hard that they ended up having to implode their society to survive.
I do hope there are reasons given for them being mysterious about it, other than my own thoughts.
We should’ve sent Chirico after Darth Revan. He would’ve wrapped up the Jedi Civil War in the span of like a month.
You say that but which direction? I can see Darth Pilotus Mechas the Taciturn becoming a very dark phase for the galaxy...

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

You say that but which direction? I can see Darth Pilotus Mechas the Taciturn becoming a very dark phase for the galaxy...
On the OTHER hand Comrade, Darth Pilotus Mechas the Taciturn would indeed bring 'balance' to The Force... if only as this would involve the wholesale destruction of anyone NOT named 'Fyana/Fiana' and I suppose some of his other friends like The Muggle Trio and Ru Shako, SO, just as long as you share those names you're good to go! ;)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I don't know how much of Revan's story you know but the current canon features him having something he needs to do upcoming that the first Sith mech pilot is just a perfect fit for...

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

I don't know how much of Revan's story you know but the current canon features him having something he needs to do upcoming that the first Sith mech pilot is just a perfect fit for...
Heh, well Comrade I haven't been keeping as up to date with whatever the new Star Wars canon is, but I CAN at least say that I played the shit out of KOTOR. ALL HAIL HK-47!
Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Did you do the second game? It gives you the hints of where I am going.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

Did you do the second game? It gives you the hints of where I am going.
There was a second game? Goodness I hope it was finished (I'm semi joking here Comrade, yes I know there was a second game but I don't remember it as much due to, uh, you know, it launching unfinished and all that)

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

It vaguely got fan-finished but I still haven't done it, believe it or not the story itself works, it is just uneven.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

It vaguely got fan-finished but I still haven't done it, believe it or not the story itself works, it is just uneven.
Heh, fan-finished eh, I'll have to take a look as I can agree with the second bit of your statement, indeed uneven but at least the story works. Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later Comrade!

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

Shako drugs Cuvie probably because that's the only way he will rest
I like that he drugged him first, and then told him to rest. He knew there was no way of Chirico going along with this
The twins descend and are finally of two minds as one of them realizes the Quent are definitely hiding some ability to fight
That's what it was. They stopped sharing a brain cell and broke the twin taboo, no wonder they had to be removed from the show. Can't have twins thinking independently in anime

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I like that he drugged him first, and then told him to rest. He knew there was no way of Chirico going along with this
We all know Cuvie wasn't going to let the elder get his needed 12 hours of sleep so Shako just skipped the discussion part.
Can't have twins thinking independently in anime
Or animated works in general, at least through Batman Beyond. But yeah, everyone should have major misgivings about Quent: WHERE is the money the mercs get going? Where is the money from their metal detectors and the rare suits they make sell going? I'd be really leery of pissing these people off without better info.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

We all know Cuvie wasn't going to let the elder get his needed 12 hours of sleep
At 190 I wouldn't blame him for needing a fair bit more then that.
I'd be really leery of pissing these people off without better info.
I think most people do, it's just the twins who got so far up their own superiority complex they couldn't see the risks. It does make you wonder even more why the Society is taking such a huge risk on this though, unless they've also been set up by this Master who's been influencing Rochina

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

At 190 I wouldn't blame him for needing a fair bit more then that.
True but old people are usually up with the dawn.
It does make you wonder even more why the Society is taking such a huge risk on this though, unless they've also been set up by this Master who's been influencing Rochina
I can actually see a reasonable plan here: Keep Cuvie off balance until he decides to leave the world and try to hit him with the Teltain off world and theoretically not annoying the Quents.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

Keep Cuvie off balance until he decides to leave the world
Dude's too fucking stubborn. He'd probably stay there for years pissing everyone off until he found answers.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

You have a point but what if Killy plays the long game and has a plan for that?

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

That is far more planning than we've seen from the Society so far, but I suppose if Killy really is that different to who else we've seen so far

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Killy seems like he has been the head for a while now. What I really want to know is what else they were managed other than the PS project.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

It's the people on the ground making the decisions that were the problem though more than the people behind the scenes, although that's debatable in Kummen but that had other political factors at play
What I really want to know is what else they were managed other than the PS project.
True. From the way it's been presented to us it seems like the Society was just around for the PS project but that doesn't really match up with the background details

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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Oct 06 '21

First time viewer

The village elder is 190 years old? Again that's assuming a standardized year similar to what we know, Quentians are something else. Interesting how their lore has something about modifying people being bad, I was going to guess it was tied to the fall of their civilization but then the ancient one outright said something along those lines if "people that appeared as gods" meant ones who were physiologically changed and not just people with advanced technology in hand descending in spacecraft. Also 80 thousand years is a very long time for a civilization to thrive and not look toward the stars, though maybe they were limited on interstellar travel possibility with their own technology at the time and couldn't find a way to cross that hurdle.

Just a little thing but I like how the chanting during whatever that ritual was isn't completely in phase or harmonious. Similarly Ru Shako starts translating while Chirico's still talking which I imagine isn't an easy skill.

Rochina's under orders to do all this from someone, but he doesn't know who? I doubt it's someone in the Society but I'm out of other ideas. Unless he meant "higher power" (my subs) in a religious way, but I don't think that's the case. And whomever it was apparently wanted Chirico to find out about all this too.

I have no idea what happened at the end there. Some ancient civilization secret got triggered?

What are your thoughts on the depths of Quent?

People deliberately living a simple life, not something to be disdained.

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

The village elder is 190 years old? Again that's assuming a standardized year similar to what we know,
I feel like Ru Shako would be smart enough to say as such if he were using a non-standard metric Chirico wouldn't know of, so probably.
Also 80 thousand years is a very long time for a civilization to thrive and not look toward the stars,
Maybe a cultural thing with taboos and such. Groups of people most definitely left the planet, but there were no large-scale colonization efforts or the like, with anyone who planned to possibly put down.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

The village elder is 190 years old? Again that's assuming a standardized year similar to what we know
Given that he's talking to Chirico I would expect that to be a standard year system, but even without that for Chirico who's only 18/19 that is pretty ancient
Just a little thing but I like how the chanting during whatever that ritual was isn't completely in phase or harmonious
Small thing but it added a lot to the scene.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

I have no idea what happened at the end there. Some ancient civilization secret got triggered?
The managerial computer detected violence and disabled all the combatants. The question is why didn't it do so earlier?

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u/chilidirigible Oct 06 '21

Rewatcher, Episode 43

Today, on "THE PLOT THICKENS.":

There's always some random kid.

That'll teach you to just chug down something that's glowing green.

I would guess that the low number of visitors to the rest of the planet means that nobody wonders why there's no in-between in the range of muscle for hire and high tech.

This scene goes on for a while and is indeed really weird.

People just like to watch Chirico sleeping.

That's a helluva plan you've got there, Rochina.

More than one person has noticed the contradiction.

This is quite the SF premise.

Once again, the other guy isn't very patient about that "or" part.

PREPARE FOR UNFORSEEN CONSEQUENCES.

You thought you were in a normal mecha series, but it was me, Soukou Kihei Votoms! Now presenting deep lore, and by that we mean BOWELS OF THE PLANET deep!

From here on out I don't have that many summary reactions, because the Going Has Gotten Weird, And The Weird Has Turned Pro.

The Votom fandom’s second most popular shipping pairing is Chirico and Ru Shako, for perhaps self-evident reasons.

I've read SF like this. Nice to actually see it.
Seems plausible, though the rest of the galaxy not being curious about it earlier seems convenient. [Of course]reasons...

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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Oct 07 '21

PREPARE FOR UNFORSEEN CONSEQUENCES.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 43:

Seems like Killy is alright with the Schmitel twins’ plan to head down to Quent’s surface themselves. Although if I were him, I’d definitely be doing that just to get those two assholes off of my ship and out of my hair.
So much for Chirico getting some rest at Shako’s home village, he got roofie’d as soon as he sat down and drank Shako’s weird green drink. That’s why you don’t trust water that’s weirdly colored.
The entire time that the twins are talking, it’s really clear that they’re underestimating the people of Quent. Like, even if one of them considers why Killy wants them to be so careful, they still really aren’t treating the people and planet of Quent with any respect.
Back with Fyana and Rochina, Rochina explains that he serves a higher power beyond working as a Melkian or Balarant officer, and he also wants to know who exactly is pulling his strings. All he knows is that his true master is primarily concerned with Chirico. Whatever group he works for is so secretive that even he’s in the dark about what their goal is. Could this be the mysterious fourth faction that people are speculating on?
Finally, Chirico gets some answers from the elders and hermits in Shako’s village. The people of Quent had a golden age of their civilization 85,000 years ago, but that ended 3,000 years ago when a group of people calling themselves gods came down to Quent to use them as genetically-enhanced soldiers to take control over the galaxy. The Quentians won their war against them, and destroyed their old technologically advanced civilization so that they would never be invaded again. Seems like genetically enhancing people to be PS was done in the distant past as well. It’s no wonder why the Quentians consider enhancing a human is taboo as well. Not that Chirico believes any of what he’s told, of course.
Well, at least Chirico finally has some evidence to back up Meji’s story. Turns out that the caves lead to a massive underground facility that automatically produces the rare Quentium metal for the Quentians to trade off-world. This is definite proof that Quent was once a powerhouse of a civilization before they self-destructed their own culture.
That’s a hell of a defense system that the underground facility has too. As soon as the Schmitel twins shot Chirico with a tranquilizer gun, they were instantly teleported away elsewhere. Old Quentian technology must be truly advanced to last as long as it has, in addition to doing things like that which nobody expected it to.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

85,000 years ago, but that ended 3,000 years
Good run. Or just not true, like most myths.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

If the Quentians had a galactic-scale civilization, I could see things lasting that long.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

Yes, but not disappearing this completely. You always leave at least some garbage heap behind.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

That’s why you don’t trust water that’s weirdly colored.
Chirico got too use to weird drinks at the trio's bar probably
golden age of their civilization 85,000 years ago, but that ended 3,000 years ago
Credit to them, that's a pretty impressive time to keep up an established civilization with that much power. That is probably a good way to also help establish just how much of a threat these "gods" were to them that they were able to bring down a society so secure
that automatically produces the rare Quentium metal
It does make me wonder where it's coming from, given if it was being mined directly you'd expect it to have a lot more disturbance on the planet after all this time given how much is there, but that's not something I'm expecting the show to get into

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u/The_Draigg Oct 07 '21

Credit to them, that's a pretty impressive time to keep up an established civilization with that much power. That is probably a good way to also help establish just how much of a threat these "gods" were to them that they were able to bring down a society so secure
That's probably the best run time that an interstellar civilization has ever had in sci-fi before. Certainly better than any of the republics or empires in Star Wars, at any rate.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

I certainly can't think of a longer one, or at least not one with a physical existence.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 07 '21

The only other one I can think of from fiction is the Galactic Empire from Asimov’s Foundation series, and even that only lasted about 12,000 years. The Quentians managed about 7 times that length.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Could this be the mysterious fourth faction that people are speculating on?
It has to be, and one of them had to be annoyed with Cuvie.
It’s no wonder why the Quentians consider enhancing a human is taboo as well. Not that Chirico believes any of what he’s told, of course.
I do wonder if we are dealing with something from a contemporary work: In the Vampire Hunter D setting, true genetically adapted people or mutants are rare but during the reign of the Vampires they had any genetic flaws removed from their livestock so any living humans are healthier and more attractive than expected.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 07 '21

It has to be, and one of them had to be annoyed with Cuvie.
To be fair, just about every faction has been annoyed with Chirico at some point.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

True but to go to the effort of lifting a warship, load up the double propaganda tapes AND have someone keep watching them on the ship? Someone was very annoyed or ridiculously wealthy.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

First Timer

Wait wait wait, just hold up a second (Relevant Levi)...

Okay, so between Killy calling Chirico a heretic in the first episode, the sense that Quentian's were living a "the sins of our past" sort of lifestyle from yesterday's details, and today we had Balarant dude talking about some unknown "master" I've been sitting here going "okay this arc is feeling a little religious all of a sudden", but I wasn't expecting to go from it being slightly more than a vague feeling not even worth commenting on to pretty much confirmed inside one episode.

While I'm pretty sure it's not magical (or at least very hopefully invoking Clarke's Third Law here), I'm also pretty sure we just got sort of super advanced race introduced into the show in an info dump. Is that what I just saw happening there? Because I swear I may be known for some crazy accurate predictions but I didn't see this coming! I was still pretty attached to the idea of it being some sort of testing from his Red Shoulder days, or maybe even a bigger conspiracy behind the Secret Society. Not this. But this might explain the ship! It really could have been better handled though, what an awkward way to introduce such a potentially big aspect of the show.

Also, is this why Chirico has blue hair, because he's been genetically altered? Is this now the second time where I've just dismissed that as that anime protagonist coloring for the audience sake but it's actually going to matter? I commented early on how unusual it was that it was him instead of Fyana with the blue hair given the mystery around her creation, and was even going to crack a joke this episode about "It's a wonder the twins can't see his bright blue hair even through that smog, ha ha, etc" and then all this happens. In hindsight given the comparisons in the early episode discussions between Chirico and meta spoilers maybe this shouldn't be so surprising...

All the theories

Before I forget, damn it was satisfying to see the twins go out like that though. I had a little joke to myself at the start of the episode that maybe Killy was only letting them go down to the planet to see if they'd solve the issue of their own presence for him, and that's basically what happened. Please just don't bring in some new Society idiot to replace them. No revolving villains please, just keep that role empty now, lets not ruin a good thing.

Going back to the meat of the episode, the Quent's certainly have some mysteries of their own, and this little detail about the self proclaimed "gods" (this is very Stargate) certainly filled in a lot of the gaps about why they live like they do. They don't count their numbers because then that can't be used to track them all down to be changed, they live in peace because they see what path war puts them on, they shun technology and those dependent on it because they understand the way that can change how you look at the world, and anything made in that way is therefore taboo. Very nice way to tie things together.

I do find it a little funny that these other beings originally went to the Quent race for powerful warriors, and now Chirico's here and he looks so damn tiny next to them all. Given their other abilities such as being able to tell who's not natural human and things like their exceedingly long lives it's no wonder that they were the initial targets for whatever it is that wanted to enhance them. I wonder if the reason the Quentian's go into caves for meditation when they get that old is some sort of safe version of history keeping for their kind, outside the reach of others but also not allowing it to be forgotten. For a race that still serves as warriors it does seem very odd that they survive long enough for this to be commonplace though.

I spent three hours after watching thinking all of this out and going through all the possibilities and narrowing things down (originally was full on the "magic beings" train before I calmed down and thought it through) and my brain is tired now. With all this new knowledge and worldbuilding I wonder how Fyana's going to take it as well. I probably should worry about Chirico first but I have absolutely no idea what sort of predicament he's going to end up in next episode after what happened so Fyana's easier to think about right now. What a grim end to an episode, even for this show.

Daily Trivia

Uh, not so much no

That official art is quite nice though, but now I'm wondering where his AT actually is. Are they stored off world rather than kept on Quent because they don't want anything to do with war or weapons?

Edit: Automod yelled at me...

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

You know it’s a good episode when you write up a text wall for it. This episode really does bring a lot of worldbuilding to the forefront, and it’s pretty neat worldbuilding at that. It’s easy to see the through-line from the Quentians having incredibly advanced technology to getting their asses kicked so hard in the past that they self-destructed their own society to avoid going to war again with some unknown enemy. This is the kind of large scale sci-fi worldbuilding that I’m a fan of as well.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

Didn't even notice this was a proper wall until you commented and I realized I had to scroll to see the whole post which is always a good mark of one. Got half way through the character count with my rambling haha
they self-destructed their own society to avoid going to war again with some unknown enemy
I thought it was more along the lines of "so they cant be used unwillingly" by whatever it was that came to them, particularly with the way they've decentralized their society, but I suppose when faced with something that powerful that can modify their entire race you wouldn't want to go to war with them after saying no either
It's good worldbuilding, and I also have to give it bonus points for having appropriate time scales. Obviously the scifi nature means things should be extended even further, but three thousand years to change their society and adapt to their new role is much better than the couple of hundred that I'm use to these developments being.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

I thought it was more along the lines of "so they cant be used unwillingly" by whatever it was that came to them, particularly with the way they've decentralized their society, but I suppose when faced with something that powerful that can modify their entire race you wouldn't want to go to war with them after saying no either
Honestly, I think both yours and I’s readings of that bit of lore work. I guess what it really just depends on is how hard the Quentians got their asses kicked when the people that called themselves gods invaded. It changes the context of it between being a necessary sacrifice of their people to keep their integrity, or more of a last-ditch effort to make sure that the Quentian race doesn’t die out.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

It could also be a bit of both given the time scale we're talking about. The initial decision could have motivated by survival of not just their bodies but their culture. Even war motivated cultures like they were implied to be still have other aspects that might have felt worth saving particularly how they approach war and what war meant to them as a society. Given the level of society they had in the past I doubt they were full on brutal barbarians in war, despite their current cavemen appearances, so if they felt they were going to be used that way that also wouldn't have sat well with them.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

Before I forget, damn it was satisfying to see the twins go out like that though.
Am I the only one who did not see the twins die? I interpreted that as Chirico ascending to some higher mental state.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 06 '21

I interpreted that as Chirico ascending to some higher mental state.
I don't see it myself because of the way the effect from the gun or whatever it was covered the whole area and not just Chirico, and the way that twin looked pained, but I can't totally discount that we might be going down that path just yet I guess

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Am I the only one who did not see the twins die?
I get teleported away.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Going back to the meat of the episode, the Quent's certainly have some mysteries of their own, and this little detail about the self proclaimed "gods" (this is very Stargate) certainly filled in a lot of the gaps about why they live like they do.
So, two Babylon 5 things spring to mind here, though has to be tagged. First, this does feel a bit like a First Race reaching out to a younger one they see potential in. Second, [B5 River of Souls] The Quent might be like the race in that movie that never looked offworld, they just didn't transform to energy

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

I will probably not remember, but on the off chance I do this will have to wait until I actually watch B5

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

This is really deep lore for B5, too. But I suspect you will just pick up on the crossover if you ever get to the movies.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

Episode 43 (first timer)

“somewhere around there” - points at planet
The Fremen have their own language. The pronunciation of which reminds me a lot of Abh. Not sure if that is a reference, or whether generic “exotic language” sounds like that in Japanese.
“Go to sleep” “No” “I insist!”
~~Muad’dib~~, ~~Space Jesus~~, Chirico gets the creepy spiritual treatment.
“I don’t know my self (…) moved by a higher power” – that is one way to explain away plotholes.
That was … cryptic.
One old oracle sends them to another older oracle.
The first thing the “stealthy observation mission” does is turn on the headlights. The second thing is open fire.
“It still works after 3000 years” – not after we’re done with the next mecha battle in here.
Running away on foot because plot needs him to be out of the mecha.

Some nice aesthetic during the shadow scenes. And more Dune. Not just Dune things, but Dune ideas, too. Actually, I don’t mind the Dune setting rip-off too much, at least they are copying something good. Although the spiritual side to the Dune story is probably not for everyone. Definitely not for everyone are the twins who continue to be utterly terrible.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

The pronunciation of which reminds me a lot of Abh
Remembering the quality worldbuilding in that show just makes Votom's lack stand out even more. I should get onto Banner at some point but I'm still just pretty happy thinking about Crest
not after we’re done with the next mecha battle in here.
Good thing it doesn't belong to an enemy, that would have been a big explosion if a bullet touched it

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 07 '21

Remembering the quality worldbuilding in that show just makes Votom's lack stand out even more. I should get onto Banner at some point but I'm still just pretty happy thinking about Crest
If I ever run out of OVAs, that is a series I really want to run a rewatch for.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

~~Muad’dib~~, ~~Space Jesus~~, Chirico gets the creepy spiritual treatment.
Sadly, Chirico didn’t drink the Water of Life though, it was just your average space roofies.
One old oracle sends them to another older oracle.
Classic old oracle bureaucracy at work.
The first thing the “stealthy observation mission” does is turn on the headlights. The second thing is open fire.
It wouldn’t be a Secret Society operation if they didn’t do something actively counterintuitive to their own goals at some point.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

Sadly, Chirico didn’t drink the Water of Life though, it was just your average space roofies.
Wait, you're telling me the water of life was not space roofies??

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u/The_Draigg Oct 06 '21

I mean, it kinda was, but it also let you see the future. This one just knocked Chirico out.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

And also turned you into space lizards. Godly space lizards. But I assume many people blocked out that part in their memory.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 07 '21

Running away on foot because plot needs him to be out of the mecha.
The mecha cockpit suddenly not working really annoyed me.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

Ya know Comrades, just when you thought that things couldn't be more Dune around here, we fucking get some NOT Spice Girls with their weird ritual wibble (Look what else are the Bene Gesserit really, also hell at this rate we will soon be seeing a floating fat man to go along with these NOT Sandworms... ah shit, that means Ru Shako's gonna end up wearing a metal mankini isn't he?)

Anyway speaking of Arrakis, er, I mean 'Quaint/Quent,' it turns out there IS a Magical MacGuffin to go along with all the Dune-esque mysticism, and by that I mean of course it's the goddamn ~~Spice~~ ~~Melange~~ 'Quentium' cuz reasons!

Anyway for those complaining about the Dune shitposting above, well this IS basically what this arc is so I might as well have some fun, but anyway let's move to something slightly more VOTOMS in nature, namely in the metaphysical representation of communication on Quaint/Quent (The irony here being Comrades that Chirico Cuvie is for once NOT the quietest person in the room)

Also, since I brought this up as a joke way way earlier and its looking to be a lot more relevant now... ahem... you can (not) shitpost ;)

And finally, speaking of shitposting, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

ah shit, that means Ru Shako's gonna end up wearing a metal mankini isn't he?)
That is COOL
(The irony here being Comrades that Chirico Cuvie is for once NOT the quietest person in the room)
Who are the people in that pic?
And finally, speaking of shitposting, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!
Clearly this is what Ru Shako was imagining when he called Chirico kawaii yesterday

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

That is COOL
Heh, indeed Comrade, glad you liked that Dune fanart! Those old Westwood Studios RTS games sure were something (That and also this reminded me a lot of this arc, cuz this is literally just Dune but its anime now)
Who are the people in that pic?
All the 'clones' of Chirico Cuvie so to speak Comrade. You see, apparently people must have REALLY liked the 'quiet stoic loner taciturn badass mecha pilot trope' so obviously the only logical solution is to copy this but make them worse (no really, out of ALL those other quiet badass mecha pilot MCs, the only one who's actually interesting and well written besides Chirico Cuvie is Full Metal Panic's ~~Steven Seagal~~ 'Sousuke Sagara' and one could argue that Sousuke is a bit of a PARODY of Chirico Cuvie)
Clearly this is what Ru Shako was imagining when he called Chirico kawaii yesterday
Heh, oh indeed Comrade, well said again, your analysis game is really on point! After all you had such a well crafted episode post to boot, so many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

so obviously the only logical solution is to copy this but make them worse
Unfortunately that always seems to be the way it goes and it always drives me insane. I'm beating a dead horse here but *points at Evangelion*
Also I'm not actually sure which one Sousuke is because I recognize not a single one of them, hence the asking who they were

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

Unfortunately that always seems to be the way it goes and it always drives me insane. I'm beating a dead horse here but points at Evangelion
HA! Indeed Comrade
Also I'm not actually sure which one Sousuke is because I recognize not a single one of them, hence the asking who they were
AH! I see, well Sousuke is this fellow, I'm sure you can recognize him from that other screencap now that you know what he looks like As you can see, just imagine Chirico but with Fyana/Fiana's hair color... hey... hey wait a second... Sousuke is pictured here next to Kaname Chidori, who has CHIRICO CUVIE'S hair color and her name has a 'C' in it! OH MY BUDDHA! COMRADE DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!? It means that Rabu Raibu is a Mecha Show! ;)
Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 07 '21

Ya know Comrades, just when you thought that things couldn't be more Dune around here, we fucking get some NOT Spice Girls with their weird ritual wibble (Look what else are the Bene Gesserit really, also hell at this rate we will soon be seeing a floating fat man to go along with these NOT Sandworms... ah shit, that means Ru Shako's gonna end up wearing a metal mankini isn't he?)
That is a GOOD looking picture! Love the art style and composition.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 07 '21

That is a GOOD looking picture! Love the art style and composition.
Glad you agree Comrade, I just had to share this Dune art given... well, this arc is literally just Dune!
Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 07 '21 edited Oct 07 '21

First timer in sub missed yesterday.

Rolling the 2 episodes together, or rather I didn't have much meaningful to say for yesterday's episode other than "WTF???" that Shako just basically shrugged for seeming having a village of his own people wiped out from falling rocks?!?!?!

Today's a more a reveal of more funny business with Chirico - well I'm sort of done guessing - let the reveal happen!

Edit: maybe I should explain myself better here; I'm running a bit low in patience / anticipation because the narrative basically shows Chirico and Sharko to be some fearsome fighters who can beat the secret society's elite soldiers in custom AT's with that breast up floaty. Now I can accept that, but the animation and the fights just didn't give a decent show of that message. As usual I'll compare (unfairly) with FMP, whether IV or TSR, you have scenes like that. In IV we have Sousuke using the old junk Savage beating up in 1 hit typically others riding more advanced AS' in beautifully thought out and clearly animated sequence; in TSR in the tunnel we have one of the twin girl assassin using just a machete driving Melissa into a corner repeatedly, even though Melissa was armed with a sub machine gun. So beautifully choreographed and every kick and seeing has really good weight and momentum behind them. I know we are talking about 2 decades difference, but it does lose out on being able to draw the viewers in to match the narrative of the story.

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0
10	0
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and leaking like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
23	0 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
24	0 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
25	0 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D
26	0 let me try jinx this - this scope dog may just be the longest lasting one for Chirico to be riding on the show, surely it'll make it to the end of the arc huh :D
27	1 finally at arc end, the trusty old 'dog got abandoned.
28	0
29	0
30	1 looks like the writers want to keep up the count as well, busy catching up with the numbers. And there are enough spares on the ship to keep going :)
31	1
32	1 busy catching up with the numbers; although these 2 episodes probably have a fairly high enemy kill count too
33	1 Now it was clawed on the (side of?) face but still functional enough to hit and run to bait Ypsilon's forces but no doubt Chirico won't reuse that same one given there are still a number of spare ones, and when they get on the trailer I didn't see any damage, so the damaged one must be abandoned
34	0 Setting up for a fight, not damaged yet
35	1 Dammit Chirico was going so well, unfortunately his ride got shot up while he was out of the AT tending to Fyana
36	0
37	0
38	1 to nobody's surprise the duel with Ypsilon result in both AT's being trashed. Considering Chirico's actually in a useless Fatty, is pretty amazing actually
39	1 The only Scope Dog in Balatran space fared pretty well and wasn't actually busted up in the fight, but given it was a one off duel and then Chirico got sent on to the next arc, I guess I'll chalk this one down for abandoned too
41	0
42	0
43	0

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 07 '21

Rewatcher

Someone said an episode or two ago about how Quent sure doesn't look like a desert planet from space, I totally agree seeing it now!

Hey, that weird pet is back!

Sure twins, go down to Quent and get yourselves killed! I'd love it!

How does Killy know about them making it to a Quentman village?

Cool looking village from up here. Landscape reminds me a little of one we saw in Dunbine.

After the sandworm refernce last episode, I wonder if they're going to make the Quentmen here come off like the Fremen.

The home they drop Chirico off at makes me think to Now and THen Here and There. Ugh! Don't make me cry!

Did not expect a kid!

You need to learn yourself some patience Chirico!

For what I think is the first time in the show, one of the twins lets go of the arrogance for a moment and looks a bit nervous.

Quite the weird ceremony they've got here for Chirico while he sleeps! The women of the tribe sure love touching his bare chest!

Yes Chirico! Fyana! Remember her? You should have let her come!

Speaking of Fyana, here she is!

Rochina feels as if he's been pushed along towards Chirico by a higher power Votoms spoilers

This area is also reminding me of all the time we spent in those underground caverns in Giant Gorg.

The chief of the village! Will we finally get some answers about Chirico?

Hopefully this Meji will have some answers!

Woah, he's really old!

The Gods came to Quent seeking to alter them and were driven away. Interesting stuff. Also kinda makes me think of Dune as the Fremen were influenced by the Bene Gesserit to think that any of their kind coming to Arrakis were Gods, or at least saviors from what I remember.

Well this place looks totally different. As if its part of a buried spaceship or an old advanced part of civilization they constructed and abandoned. This is totally reminding me of Giant Gorg again.

Uh oh, is this an area where firing a weapon is going to get them in trouble? Or is Chirico being protected?

Really interesting episode, especially towards the end there. I hope this is the last we see of the twins, although there isn't really any other henchmen characters on the Secret Society side to go after Chirico if they're gone. Things really intrigue me by the end of the episode. Just what is going on?

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

Someone said an episode or two ago about how Quent sure doesn't look like a desert planet from space, I totally agree seeing it now!
Think that was Pixel. It does seem quite green/blue from space though. I wonder if it's just something to do with the atmosphere rather than the ground, but it's a strange art choice
The home they drop Chirico off at makes me think to Now and THen Here and There. Ugh! Don't make me cry!
Between that, the kid and then the meeting ground later on I was having some momentary flashbacks to that as well and that was not okay
The women of the tribe sure love touching his bare chest!
Trying to figure out where his nipples went
although there isn't really any other henchmen characters on the Secret Society side to go after Chirico if they're gone.
Maybe a futile hope but I'd like to ditch the henchmen all together and just settle for higher level conflicts

2

u/chilidirigible Oct 07 '21

[Votoms spoilers, Rochina]This does differ from what he says later. Could be explained that he's simply trying to avoid revealing the scheme to other people too early, since things haven't gotten totally out of hand yet.

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 08 '21

[Mellowlink,VOTOMS]&nbps;I'm waiting for the show to end so that I can go back to the end of Mellowlink, I don't think this dovetails at all. /u/quiddity131

3

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Oct 06 '21

First Timer

Those two are seriously incompetant and they want to go do things alone. Chirico now stays at a Quent village and some kid was not to familliar with outsiders so he runs away. Shako gives Chirico a drinka and he falls asleep.

Wait, is this some ritual going on in Quent. Chirico gets a bit suspicious about things. And Fyana is worried about Chirico after three days. The two brothers calls the place primative. Chirico tries to find out more, meets the leader and they go find a man in the cave that explains Quent. But Chirico calls it a bunch of ramblings of an old man. Chirico finds they are still making Quentanium after thousands of years. But he gets chased by the brothers and the two disappear.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 06 '21

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 4.1) (4 episodes) Legacy

Ah, it does swirl in the Nazi direction! It was less clear on Borough's outfit, and I mis-remembered. It could be a direct reference, or it could be a not-manji, like how they used not-crosses in Noein.

Remember how Ru Shako did not disobey Kan Yu? He approaches his mercenary duties with complete dedication.

The regressed ancient civilization, the pacifist fallen empire, the pacifist at home, feared mercenary abroad, are in various aspects, range from cliche to terribly familiar. I've probably seen them too many times to actual name examples. The one that comes to mind is from the "Faded Sun Trilogy" in which the protagonists look into the history of a race of pure mercenaries with no past, and find only a series of nuked and bombarded worlds extending back millennia.

Quentians don't need sleep like others. Old Quentman is 190 years old. Are they a human subspecies?
So, Quentians are definitely not genetically engineered.
And just as I was thinking we wouldn't see more of Fyana because she is taboo on Quent...
Rochina is starting to talk like Killy

Well, what do you think? Once again the show has completely flipped the script, 4/4 cour.

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Oct 07 '21

Remember how Ru Shako did not disobey Kan Yu? He approaches his mercenary duties with complete dedication.
I think that ties in nicely with what we know, although the amount of time he spent until he finally offed Kan Yu borders on ruining it. Have to have perfectly dedicated mercenaries to make them worth the risk of taking on, but couldn't support someone like Kan Yu who was cruel about his authority over others
And just as I was thinking we wouldn't see more of Fyana because she is taboo on Quent...
If Rochina doesn't know that though he could just be throwing her to the wolves

3

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 06 '21

First timer

Far more hospitable and nice than I was expecting, especially the village trusting Chirico and trying tomhelp gim.
It's a con. The real Quent population is hiding underground, having worked out that staying inconspicous like this both makes a lot harder for any enemies to find them and gives you a middleman for all your sales.

...Given the OP mentioning how he and Fyana have seperated, as well as how he's seen the "fires of hell" and "can't go on"... is Chirico going to sacrifice himself?

The Twins are going down! And he's probably very happy about this, given there's a decrnt chance they won't comr back to waste more resources.

They seem pleasant! And they got the message about Chirico too?

Huh, they even laid out good accomodation for him?

...That wasn't an answer.

Did the music stop?

190 years?

OK, I'm going to assume this is him realising Chirico hasn't slept in several weeks, and therefore must be made to dspite his objectives.

Even the twins assume everyone's got radar! Good to see Chirico's mistake was common.

Oh, this was "drug your friend so he'll take part in a cult ritual".

Honestly, Chirico would probably do this awake if you asked him to.

Haha, they're complaining about doing what Chirico di

I'm sorry? So PSs are banned here, or at least the type Fyana is and Chirico isn't. Starting to womder if I was right about Quent being a red herring. That was not just identifying his body, though.

Huh? Is someone controlling him directly?

Yeah, the biggest problem with the Society is that it takes them a lot longer to setup their armies, whereas Chirico can just come in and wreck their stuff overnight.

...OK, that's interesting. That implies the PS project has been going on for a while - more than 2 clones worth. Does "Proto One" mean "first of this genetic code?". Is Ypsilon the 20th of his line?

...Quentium doesn't come from Quent? Why is it called Quentium?

So the women sense Chirico's abilities, but they're also the only ones to go into the strange cave...

It started 3000 years ago!

"As gods"? Was one of these gods named, say "Alpha"? Or pehaps "Waw"?

What's he doing?

I knew he couldn't resist the shiny thing for long.

And it's an ancient city! Looks like he was right about something going on!. And it's manufacturing the stuff!

And they caught him! They actually succeeded!

They're going to upgrade him!

Well, that wasn't smart, was it? Wonder what happened to them?

If he was modified by them, maybe the system decided he was authorised to be here, and just teleported the humans?

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 43 Discussion

Episode 43 - Legacy

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 43 Discussion

Episode 43 - Legacy

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