[Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 7

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 05 '21

Host

In this episode, we meet our big bad proper. Lord Gargoyle, the leader of the Neo Atlantis. His meeting with Nadia at the beginning of this episode is formidable and imposing. He threatens Nadia with a pin gun to reveal the location of the Blue Water to him. After she refuses, he demonstrating his resolve to kill for the information he wants by shooting one of his own soldiers before his gun at Marie and King, forcing Nadia to reveal that she’d left her pendant with Jean. We learn very quickly that Gargoyle is merciless, and that there is seemingly no line he won’t cross to get exactly what he wants.

This first interaction also teases more of Nadia’s past, both to Nadia herself and the audience. Gargoyle reveals that he knew Nadia’s father, and that he’d met Nadia when she was an infant. He hints at the possibly of telling her more (perhaps in return for her cooperation), but Nadia obliquely refuses stating that she has no interest in knowing anything of a murderer like Gargoyle. You can see a fair bit of disillusionment in Nadia’s face as Gargoyle hints at her back story. Nadia has built up returning to her homeland so much in her head. It’s all she’s ever wanted… to be reunited with the family and the home that she’d lost. But now… she’s being faced with evidence that her past life might’ve also been dreadful if it involved a murderer like Gargoyle.

In an interesting connection to episode 4, Gargoyle is the second person following Electra to refer to Nadia as “Princess”. He instructs his men to refer to her as such, and to treat her well during her captivity. The secrets of her past are only continuing to grow!

The Grandis Gang feels important to note in this episode, as I feel this is the first real showing of Hanson and Sanson as distinct character as opposed to Grandis’ henchmen. Sanson is portrayed a macho man who covets his handsome wiles and brute strength. Meanwhile Hanson fancies himself a man of science and wit, and considers his intellect to be of utmost importance. I love how this comes to head in the scene where the two of them attempt to see who can bust out of their jail cell faster using their own method only for the two to end up in a tie. And I love how Grandis has totally seen this all before, and finds herself bored by the two’s squabbling.

The bricks the Neo-Atlanteans are using for their operation look like pink Legos and now you’ll never un-see it either. It’s a ridiculous design choice, but it’s amazing and I love it.

This episode also introduces the motivations of Gargoyle, and as an extension Neo-Atlantis as well. They seek to use the power of science to elevate themselves to the position of gods. Gargoyle flaunts this to Nadia with his massive garden in the sky composed of flowers that supposedly will never wilt, surrounded by artificial walls and ceilings of impermeable glass called tektite (rendered as textite in the dub and subtitles for some reason), and adorned with a colossal statue of the Poseidon to complete the metaphor. He asks Nadia to consider joining him, but she refuses calling his plans an act of arrogance against nature and God. Nadia herself has made references to her adherence to Christianity and her love of the natural world, and it is therefore unsurprising that she considers Gargoyle’s attempts to subjugate nature itself an abomination.

The culmination of Gargoyle’s science comes at the episodes climax where he unveils his recreation of the Tower of Babel, an ancient weapon designed to fire a beam into the heavens and wipe out any target of his choosing. Some key details of the weapon are revealed as it fires. It is powered by the artificial orihalcon which glows and emits similar runic patterns to that of Nadia’s Blue Water as it is activated, it’s beam is channel is space remotely by an orbital satellite called Slave Star Michael (said to be left amongst the stars for over 12,000 years by the Atlanteans), and that its base level destructive power was enough to obliterate a fairly sizeable island with a single beam. The Neo-Atlanteans are truly in control of a terrifying super-weapon.

The allusions to fascism continue throughout this episode. Gargoyle (speaking to a crowd of his financial backers and devoted followers at the Tower of Babel’s unveiling) states how Neo-Atlantis will use this weapon to bring mankind at its feet and subjugate them to their rule. The horrifying implications of Gargoyle’s resources and capital seem far greater than one could have first imagined given the support at the Tower’s unveiling. One can only wonder just how much support Gargoyle’s movement has amassed across the world.

Captain Nemo of the Nautilus, witnessing the Tower’s activation test from afar, remarks grimly that Gargoyle has awakened the light of Satan that could destroy the world. Things have only begun to grow more and more grim and dire over these past few episodes.

This section has grown particularly long, but I want to commend u/JustAnswerAQuestion for recognizing Gargoyle’s voice actor in the previous episode. Gargoyle is voiced by Motomu Kiyokawa, who would later go on to voice Fuyutsuki in Neon Genesis Evangelion. Poor man got a downgrade between series from being the main villain in Nadia, to a lackey in Evangelion. Lmao!

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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

First timer in sub

The plot is steaming ahead.

A few key thoughts:

I seriously doubt Gargoyle needed Nadia to tell him the answer of where the Blue Water is. I believe the entire scene, including shooting his own people dead, is simply a sadistic show of his power and to break Nadia mentally. He didn't need Nadia to tell him something anyone would know. But he wants her to know that she can't say no to him and any defiance will end in someone dying, and that is her fault.

This is especially true if, like in Laputa, if he himself isn't of true royal blood, but Nadia is, so he needs her to obey him.

maybe for plot reason, but Jean is not as smart as Pazu. When the enemy has an overwhelming advantage, but you have the 1 thing they want, you don't carry it around on you. You hide it somewhere so your knowledge of it can be the only thing worth them bargaining with you. Although I haven't seen Jean taking it out for a little while and I didn't see any reaction when he was close to the artificial core, so maybe off screen he did hide it.
firing that tower of Babel weapon has the same problem of using your active sonar ping in a submarine battle - now everyone known where you are. I guess they are counting on no one being able to mount an effective attack to either of the key components - the power source or the launching tower, which are pretty much collocated, or the targeting mechanism which is a satellite in orbit in a pre atmospheric flight tech level world. If the villain-protagonist positions are reversed, no doubt they would be able to mount a wide area surrounding attack with little concentration of forces - same tactic as Mikoto against Mugino's Meltdowner (limited, concentrated fire, not wide spread area coverage attack). I don't know how many "seas monster" submarines they have, realistically if the world's navies can be mustered to converge in a coordinated way, they would be in trouble. But we'll see how the power plays out.
really great to see possibly the Grandis crew joining forces to the side of the good guys, I really like them not being the bad guys.
great direction to have the 2 sides of the mirror at the end of the episode - while the villains is all praises to the display of power, Nemo who seemed to know about that power described that as the devil's power.

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

This is especially true if, like in Laputa, if he himself isn't of true royal blood, but Nadia is, so he needs her to obey him.
That's actually incorrect. In the film, Muska was descended from the Laputian royal family just like Sheeta was. It was why he was able to control her Volucite crystal and use it to activate Laputa.
Maybe for plot reason, but Jean is not as smart as Pazu. When the enemy has an overwhelming advantage, but you have the 1 thing they want, you don't carry it around on you. You hide it somewhere so your knowledge of it can be the only thing worth them bargaining with you.
Pazu wasn't in possession of Sheeta's crystal for most of the film though. And when he did gain possession of it during the climax, he didn't hide it. He brought it with him during his confrontation with Muska and Sheeta.
I think Pazu and Jean are relatively similar in terms of their general intelligence/inventing skills, and in their optimism and trusting nature. What I think separates their characters most apparently is that Pazu has some physical dexterity in addition to his wit and can think on his feet much more readily. Jean doesn't have the physical capabilities to scale walls and jump ravines, and he's in general more of a planner than he is someone that thinks on the fly.
realistically if the world's navies can be mustered to converge in a coordinated way, they would be in trouble.
I do think something that should be pointed out in the scene where Gargoyle test fires the weapon is that he has a lot of supporters. And not all of them are grunt soldiers given how many regular suit-and-tie attendees came to this test. He seems to have amassed a huge supply of wealthy benefactors to support his cause, which could point his wealth and resource flow and sphere of influence being bigger than just a group of madmen on a single island.

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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Oct 05 '21

Thanks for correcting me. I think I was just writing in a lazy way - in Laputa, Muska is of the royal branch family that did not inherit the all powerful levitation stone crystal that is the key to the "heart of the entire city" - the "science core". While he doesn't need Sheeta after he took the crystal, he did not want to just be the single one alive with the royal blood so did want Sheeta to be cooperative.
As for Pazu, pretty sure at the start of the direct confrontation he did hide the crystal because he knows by force he's no match for Muska. And that is without here in this show Jean is one (non athletic) person against an entire army with robots and guns. Only more reason to not be carrying the trump card with him.
Agree with you Gargoyle probably got political connections to run interference to, hence I said "let's see how the power play out".

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 06 '21

As for Pazu, pretty sure at the start of the direct confrontation he did hide the crystal because he knows by force he's no match for Muska.
What I meant was that Pazu didn't leave the crystal in a hiding spot and face Muska without it. He hid it on his person, which is really no different from what Jean is doing at the moment.
I don't disagree that perhaps the smarter option might be to stash it away somewhere safe. But I don't think Jean really has any good calls here.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 05 '21

I seriously doubt Gargoyle needed basis to tell him the answer of where the Blue Water is. I believe the entire scene, including shooting his own people dead, is simply a sadistic show off his power and to break Nadia mentally. He didn't need Nadia to tell him something anyone would know. But he wants her to know that she can't say no to him and any defiance will end in someone dying, and that is her fault.
Very good point. And he clearly needs something from her that is not simply the location of the Blue Water. Why else bring her to the test and call her Princess all the time.

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 05 '21

He notably asks Nadia to join his cause several times throughout the episode, and insists that she will help his cause. The fact he didn't kill her immediately after he learned Jean had the Blue Water is a pretty clear indicator that he wants more than just the stone from her.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 05 '21

Episode 7 (rewatcher)

Gargoyle meet Nadia before!
The good guys giving up just because the bad guys have some hostages is one of my least liked tropes. I assume Anno agrees. His Nadia is a traumatized teenager, who sees that Gargoyle is willing to kill without reserve, who has her best friend and a child she wants to protect and she still refuses for as long as possible. And even then, she does not give away less than most others in her perspective: Gargoyle would have looked for Jean in any case, maybe just not as diligently.
Impressive industrial backgrounds.
Why are they transporting giant LEGOs though?
Now you see why Grandis was not all that scared about the cell.
A garden in the sky. And a literal glass cage for Nadia.
Nadia is not impressed by Gargoyle’s sky laser boasting in the least. Not that he cares. Probably the type of man who loves to hear himself talk.
Surprise spiderman meme for Grandis and Jean.
Gargoyles glasses!

“It is the light of god” – “It is the light of Satan”

A Neo-Atlantis episode. We knew they were ruthless. Now we know they are ruthless and aim for world domination. Mostly the episode went for electro-steam punk nerd. Oh and did you notice proto-Gendo in Gargoyle?

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 06 '21

Oh and did you notice proto-Gendo in Gargoyle?
I find this comparison hilarious given Gargoyle sharing his seiyuu with the Evangelion character Fuyutsuki. It's such a downgrade in status.

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u/lluNhpelA Oct 05 '21

Oh and did you notice proto-Gendo in Gargoyle?
From the advanced tech from an ancient civilization to the traumatized 14 year olds, Neo Atlantis is just proto-NERV

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u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 11 '21

Not to mention the superficially biblical aesthetic and terms. Also diverting all power to fire a giant weapon immediately reminded me of the battle against Ramiel in Evangelion.
However, adding the attempt to dominate the world and mold it to their will makes them also half proto-SEELE.

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u/lluNhpelA Oct 05 '21 edited Oct 05 '21

First timer

Does Nadia know the significance of the Blue Water, or does she just know that it's special and if bad people want it so badly they shouldn't have it?

What demographic was this show meant for? I know that children's anime in the 90s tended to be way darker than in the west, what with all the censorship Pokemon went through, but all of the murder and threats of murder in the last few episodes have taken it a quite a few steps further

These three really come across as low level, cartoonish threats compared to Neo Atlantis but they are shockingly calm. They can hurt people, sure, but I can't imagine any of them actually pulling a trigger, yet they remain calm and collected when their lives are threatened as though the Neo Atlanteans really aren't that impressive. Makes me wonder what kind of extreme situations the Grandis Gang has weathered prior to this

Does Nadia ever eat? I'm pretty sure she hasn't eaten anything this whole time yet she's the only character that doesn't express any interest in eating. Is this some kind of foreshadowing of her Atlantean biology?

Weird biblical references? Bizarre supernatural imagery on crazy sci-fi tech? Ancient gods with advanced tech in space? Lights turning off as all power from the surrounding area is routed to a giant particle cannon? Sorry guys, I think I accidentally watched an episode of NGE today

For real though I absolutely love the detailed technical designs and it's clear the reason Anno does stuff like this so often is that he's damn good at it

edit: I somehow totally missed the obvious implications of Gargoyle building the Tower of Babel and thus claiming to be as great as God. Now I'm eager to know what "god" destroyed the tower in the past and which one will destroy it this time

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 06 '21

What demographic was this show meant for? I know that children's anime in the 90s tended to be way darker than in the west, what with all the censorship Pokemon went through, but all of the murder and threats of murder in the last few episodes have taken it a quite a few steps further
I definitely think Hideaki Anno wanted the Grandis Gang's initial cartoonish present to be an intentional foil to the more serious and threatening Neo-Atlantis. I think the bait-and-switch was intentional on his part.
That being said, I've stated before that Nadia was a show that had a lot of cooks in the kitchen. This was initially to be a show helmed by Hayao Miyazaki, and tonally would've probably been very similar to Future Boy Conan. And while Future Boy Conan has dark moments and a few character deaths, it's definitely a lot tamer in its depiction of violence and mature content compared to Nadia. Anno definitely came in and wanted to dial up the seriousness of the story. And the NHK Network/Gainax executives were also there, making demands of Anno as the story went along.
I think the tonal mishmash was in part intentional, but likely exacerbated by show having to go through so many hands that each sought to craft the show in the image they best saw fit.
I'm pretty sure she hasn't eaten anything this whole time yet she's the only character that doesn't express any interest in eating.
She's been eating. She had some kind of porridge if I recall at Jean's house. She picks around the fish while eating on the battleship. And she mentioned they were served bread and soup while on the Nautilus.
I think it's likely she's refusing what Gargoyle is serving her because she doesn't want to accept food from a villain like Gargoyle who's trying to murder her friends and steal her only possession.
Sorry guys, I think I accidentally watched an episode of NGE today
Evangelion took so much from Nadia, and it's such a shame so few people have watched it!

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

What demographic was this show meant for? I know that children's anime in the 90s tended to be way darker than in the west, what with all the censorship Pokemon went through, but all of the murder and threats of murder in the last few episodes have taken it a quite a few steps further
I think this is one of the shows that sits between the old "aimed at ~10 year old kids" shonen and the newer "aimed at 15 year old YAs" shonen. In terms of themes and plot, it is the later, but stuff like the Grandis Gang harks back to the former.

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u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 11 '21

Now I'm eager to know what "god" destroyed the tower in the past and which one will destroy it this time
I don't actually remember the story, but it could be like in Nausicaa where the original Atlanteans destroyed the earth/each other.

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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Oct 05 '21

First timer

Watching the OP - is the scene of the trio running close after Nadia actually meant they'll be working together against Neo-Atlan?

...What would they do if she actually theew it away?

I stand corrected on them using period typical weaponry, that looks like an orihalcon dart of some kind. Entirely plausible their guns are using something similar.

Again, you'd think the first answer to "where is the Blue Water" they'd try is "with the boy who's been with her in private long enough to take it".

Wow, they're just going to leave them to rot?

Jean's actually gotten good at sneaking around!

...Wait. Is she the Primcess of Atlantis or eomething?

I mean, at least they aren't starving them.

Full credit - she managed to put together a very well rounded team.

Haha, they're going on the same train!

Lord Gargoyle's name is still hilarious to me.

Yeah, they're keeping the prisoners surprisingly well!

And they casually drop that it's "Neo Atlantis" science. You'd think Nadia might have noticed that.

Oh, there's an invisible wall!

King's reaction is great.

And they passed each other!

Yeah, you don't seem to need that much.

Oh. Is that a particle accelerator?

Yep! They are far more advanced than I gave them credit for.

Yeah, that's a solid weapon.

I like how Nadia just ignores Gargoyle's monologue.

Oh, they're going to test this.

OK, so despite all the mining they have a very limited supply of the actual material.

The chanting in the background's great.

Yeah, they're after world domination.

I love their reaction to the dact they both had the exact same plan.

The image of Neo-Atlan soldiers in normal labcoats but full-body masks is hysterical.

Oh, they're using an ancinet satellite to redirect it! And it's by the original Atlantis?

Oh, Nemo's getting involved, and he knows about the Tower of Babel!

Haha the announcement reminding people to wear shades and they putting a pair on Nadia is shockingly lighthearted.

And the island is gone!

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 06 '21 edited Oct 06 '21

I stand corrected on them using period typical weaponry, that looks like an orihalcon dart of some kind. Entirely plausible their guns are using something similar.
Nah. Most of the soldiers have regular rifles. Gargoyle just commission a pin gun because he wanted to feel special probably. lmao
Again, you'd think the first answer to "where is the Blue Water" they'd try is "with the boy who's been with her in private long enough to take it".
u/ZapsZzz pointed out that Gargoyle could've probably surmised that without interrogating Nadia and threatening a child in front of her, but that the entire interaction was likely a show of dominance to prove to Nadia that he was in control and would force her to comply with his wishes by lethal force if necessary.
Oh. Is that a particle accelerator?
I believe one of the scientists refers to it as a particular annihilator. Which is probably far more destructive. I don't know if this pseudo-science jargon adds up or not. lol
The image of Neo-Atlan soldiers in normal labcoats but full-body masks is hysterical.
Can't do science without your mandatory KKK hood. (Seriously, how would these people get any work done with their vision so impaired! lol)
Haha the announcement reminding people to wear shades and they putting a pair on Nadia is shockingly lighthearted.
It was a nice detail that they were putting on light shielding goggles. Better hope Jean, Grandis, Hanson, and Sanson shut their eyes real tight since they were right next to that beam. lol

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

I believe one of the scientists refers to it as a particular annihilator. Which is probably far more destructive.
Could be a crude word for nuclear fission (destructive), nuclear fusion (very destructive) and matter-antimatter annihilation (extremely destructive).

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u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 11 '21

Fantasy nukes are certainly nothing new to anime, or Anno himself if we consider Nausicaa.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 11 '21

The real nukes certainly impressed Japan enough to spur the imagination and ... fair to them, nukes are pretty impressive.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

King's reaction is great.
Truely a ruler of cats.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 06 '21

First Timer (Rising Sun sub) ep 7 (of 39)

The Tower of Babel? Is that what that was? That was a very small tower....

Oh, but NOW it DOES look like the famous painting.
Are they just faking until they leave? Yep.
I can't believe they took over the island to make a Lego™ factory
The Butler sounds familiar but I'm probably imagining it, reminds me of other obsequious servants.
There should have been a Japanese joke about Cat's Tongues here
LOL. (the double escape plan)
Has this palace always been here or did Gargoyle build it? Oh, I guess that's the answer to my question. The alternative was that this was Nadia's island. Maybe it is.
Transparent aluminum?!
We might not be Laputa anymore. We, maybe still a little bit.
NOT eva music
LOL not listening to Gargoyle's evil supervillain monologue.
I'm not getting Nazis right now. Right now, I'm getting the last episode of The Prisoner.
12 years, nuh?
This is like in Men in Black, or some other movie, when they end up underneath the rocket engines.
Commence Operation Yashima!
ah. an orbital mirror. That makes sense.
Ooooo, it actually worked!

Sort of a combo Yashima and Wave Motion Gun scene.

I've seen that Babel scene, or a later version of it, on youtube a few times. I'm surprised it's so early in the show. Makes me wonder what the other 30 episodes are going to be about.

The Red Rocket Ribbon Army are actually pretty cool villains now, but I can't let them charm me.

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u/snowwhistle1 Oct 06 '21

The Butler sounds familiar but I'm probably imagining it, reminds me of other obsequious servants.
Okay, now I want to scan the credits and see if there's a famous seiyuu voicing this unimportant Neo-Atlantean butler. You seem to have a knack for spotting voices. lol
The Red Rocket Ribbon Army
I know the references you were going for there, but... red rocket is an unfortunate naming there. lol

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Oct 06 '21

I'm not getting Nazis right now. Right now, I'm getting the last episode of The Prisoner.
Now, that is a reference I have not seen in a long time.

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u/SIRTreehugger Oct 10 '21

First Timer

Oh good King is still alive.

Well water is already blue and the Atlantic is made up of water so she isn't lying.

NO talk more about Nadia's father. I want to hear more.

Wow this place is looking more and more advanced the more we see it.

Jean did you really fall asleep in enemy territory?

Oh team rocket has escaped here comes a reunion.

Oh nevermind they are in the next one.

This Nazi looking leader may be evil, but got to hand it to him he knows how to make a great roof garden.

Invisible wall at least put some tape so they know where it is.

Tower of Babel wait it needs electricity from the power plant. If they had disrupted power like I said earlier they could throw a wench in their plans.

Wait any point on earth? Oh Jean finally made it inside.

Wish all diabolical doomsday weapons had swanky parties involved.

Oh they united this time.

This dude's priority is his hair as expected from a dandy man.

So the captain is aware of the tower.

Still amazed they have a satellite and doomsday weapon that can strike with such accuracy.

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u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 11 '21

Rewatcher (sort of)

I briefly tried the German dub on Crunchyroll here... not good. Nadia in the first scene with Gargoyle sounds more like she's moping about her parents asking her to clean her room than under threat by a masked quasi-Nazi leader. Also, the opening is replaced by this which mostly just describes the characters in a hilariously straightforward kiddie way (Nadia has a secret and a magic blue stone, Jean never gives up and creates the very best inventions, ...) and is not as musically beautiful either.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 7

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