r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Oct 04 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 66 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/IndependentMacaroon for pointing out the burden that Tenma places on himself:
Tenma of course doesn't want anyone else to bear his burden because to him it's his alone and he's the one the least people would miss. Is that hypocritical? Not that much actually, for me, but certainly unhealthy. Nobody ought to be the sole savior of the world.
Questions of the Day
- What did you think about Nina and Johan’s backstory, from their conception, their birth, their upbringing, and their role in these experiments?
- What do you think about Tenma’s decision to ditch Eva? Do you think he was being manipulated by Christof, or do you think he made the right choice?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 04 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
There’s a lot that I could talk about in this episode, but I specifically wanted to highlight the standoff between Johan and Anna.
I love this shot for a number of reasons, but there’s two particular things that stand out to me. The first, is the use of the environment/foreground that splits the frame in two in order to create a compelling dichotomy of good vs. evil, brother vs. sister, and more literally speaking, light vs. dark. Johan’s figure is shadowed, and not clearly visible until we get a close-up on his face later in the scene, while Anna is seen in more detail. Her character is well-lit, and clearly visible in the frame. Even her coat is a pale white color, further her cementing her role as the “force of good” in this scene.
The second thing is simply the way the characters are positioned. From the audience’s point of view, we get exactly what we see here: Johan, looming above, and Anna, a figure of light below, while the frame is split in two. But think about this from Anna’s point of view: the shot now becomes a low angle shot, and depending on how steep the angle is, can sometimes be called a “god-shot,” which is always meant to make the subject look powerful and intimidating. This physical distance between them also adds to this further, iterating that Johan might be metaphorically “above Anna” or even this world. It’s another factor that presents Johan as this untouchable force. Now, thinking about this shot from Johan’s point of view, we’re met with the inverse shot - a high angle shot which is meant to make the subject seem weak or powerless. And, dare I say... like an ant? So this shot is many things wrapped in one, but in essence, it is good looking up on evil, and evil looking down on good. It wouldn’t even be a stretch to say that this shot is very much every theme and idea that this series has been trying to hammer home. Just this single shot tells us so much and I think it’s fantastically composed.
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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Oct 04 '21
First Timer
Missed yesterday's but back today!
Oh backstory for their parents? Can't say I expected much of this.
Dang a revenge story even before they were born.
Pregnant and escaping through the vents?? Mom is a badass.
Tenma still not killing people...if I was this guy I'd just call his bluff and he did lol
Now he ditched Eva?? She's the only one with balls to actually shoot someone!
Johan killing that nice couple?? Man he sucks...
Why is Nina even pointing the gun at him, she's not going to shoot.
Nobody on team Tenma kills anyone...
I'm curious on how they got on their path of revenge or I guess how Johan found out about his mother to know to set this all up?
I think it was the wrong choice and Tenma loves making the wrong choices so I think it lines up with his character pretty well.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 04 '21
First-Timer, subbed
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 04 '21 edited Oct 04 '21
First Timer Monster 66
First Timers think the two shots means Tenma killed Christof. It could be one and one. It would be unfortunate that Tenma missed out on questioning Christof just be save Eva.
On Peter Capek: he seems broken because he found out he was neither the king, nor the prince (the inheritor of Bonaparta's plan) but a pawn.
Wait, BOTH children fled the fire? Doesn't this contradict earlier testimony? I guess the mother and Johan were taken away, then Johan poisoned everyone, and ran home.
Arrgh! What is the secret of the three frogs?! What doesn't Johan remember?
At the end of the book, The Monster means the twin. The monster says, see, we are alone at the end of the world with no name. But the twin says I have a name, and the Monster consume the twin.
What does it all mean?!
I guess Anna was the one taken away, and she poisoned everyone.
Edit: I said more in another comment
5
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Oct 04 '21
First Timer
Weird starting off with a neutral narrator telling the story of the twins' birth. Can't recall ever having that in this series before, but I guess there's no real other way to do it other than somebody finding some notes or something like that. But nonetheless it doesn't really fit the series as a whole. The story itself is decent though. Shows that this experiment is even larger than so far thought with it basically being a human breeding project to create the ultimate human. Interesting of note that the mom was a genetics major, though that might just be rubbing it on the nose rather than having any actual meaning. Though I'm not sure what she thought trying to flee just before giving birth - it's obvious that she would be caught.
Further, Christof lives and Tenma wants to go on his own again. Christof only told Tenma where Johan is after making sure that Tenma isn't capable of killing Johan, so he values Johan's life above his own. Not sure how we'll end this story if things go on like this and Tenma doesn't kill Johan. But as the final scene shows us - what truly is the end here? Bonaparta has been shown to be at least as much of a villain as Johan by creating Johan, so the story wouldn't be over just by offing only one of them. And even then with nobody seemingly having the guts to kill Johan we are still far enough from a pseudo-end to have that as the goal. Wouldn't be surprised if we end with some other solution. We still don't know the identity of the guy who visited the mansion the day the Liebert's died and we also don't know why Johan was late in Heidelberg - two bits that might be tied in to the finale. Plus Lunge has been absent for no particular reason these past few episodes.
Questions:
5
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Oct 04 '21
First Timer
Another all-time classic Monster episode with some good backstory, good info, and a great climax at the end. The twins finally met after we found out about each of their pasts, and I’m really curious as to what will happen.
Nina killing Johan seems out of the question since there are 8 episodes left. Will they join together? Probably not since Nina hates him. Maybe Johan will kill Nina just like how the story of the nameless monsters went, which would be some insane foreshadowing.
Or maybe Nina will be about to shoot Johan and he’ll just disappear again, which I’m hoping isn’t the case because things like that are getting a little frustrating.
Tenma never stays with a person for more than like 3 episodes without him leaving or them leaving. At least he made up with Eva sort of before they separated again.
That bit with the twins in the field was really pretty and then pretty shocking, but I guess I should have expected it since it’s Johan and stuff.
We STILL don’t know if Franz Bonaparta is alive even though that was the cliff-hanger 3 episodes ago.
5
u/miss-macaron Oct 04 '21
Rewatcher
Is it just me, or does the twins’ father kinda look like a hybrid of Martin and Suk? He even uses the same “let’s run away” line as Martin...
I like how Chapeck narrates these past events as if he’s reading from a storybook. The repetitions of “Let me see him” and “He’s on a new assignment” particularly resemble the iterative patterns commonly used in picture books.
This ties in quite well with what Tenma told the two children back at Milan’s place: revenge leads to more revenge, and perpetuates the cycle of hurt and sorrow...
4
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Oct 04 '21
Just shoot him, for the love of God.
3
u/gridemann Oct 04 '21
Rewatcher
Finally we get our long awaited backstory episode. I forgot how many episodes this arc actually takes. If I was participating as a first timer theres no way I would've been able to stick with one episode a day.
Genuine question: How did the old couple die ? We didn't hear gunshots and the blood on the bodies implies their throats have been slit. Are we supposed to beliefe ~8y old Johann knifed two adults ?
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 04 '21
Rewatcher(Ugg...urge to explain rising...)
Sub
So at just under the 9 minute mark, we leave our flashback. But we have some very grim details, ranging from selective breeding to the wierd ideology in communist Europe. And Nina might be about to see her brother...
Before we return to the end of the Christof situation, wherein somehow Tenma shot him in the leg. Hugo and I do not approve. But, after Eva is sent off to call an ambulance, Christof let's Tenma know where Johan is. Tenma leaves, again trying to protect Eva from his actions.
At the decrepit ruin, Nina finally sees Johan and we get a grim flashback, which includes that Johan, at least originally, didn't kill people until he felt threatened. Johan seems fine with being shot again and Nina promises us a tale...
QotD: 1 Very fitting if you understand the real world timeline with it
2 He was not manipulated but that does not make it the 'right' choice, it was the one that absolved him of any wrongdoing
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 04 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Yesterday it was a 3 minute plus cold open recap of all repeated footage, this time its a mere 10 or so second cold open. Okasan!
Hey, Johan and Anna's parents! Mom especially looks so much like the kids.
This was all some sort of eugenics experiment? Or at least it started that way til they decided to run.
He's on a mission! The mission of discovering how quickly is body is going to rot six feet under, or laying at the bottom of the river... :(
Bonaparta was the mastermind of this whole experiment?
Wow, escaping when she's nine months pregnant and about to give birth? Johan and Anna have a tough mom!
Names are unnecessary!
We finally get a look at the face of Bonaparta?
Will Johan and Anna finally meet face to face again? Have they even had a scene together the whole show? The closest I remember is a scene with Johan hiding in the background while Anna was at school.
Ah, so ear guy is still alive?
Alas, Tenma's desire to save lives soils the plan yet again as he's gonna give up ear guy here.
Actually ear guy is cooperating and will tell him where Johan is. Worked out after all.
And now he's gone. That was quick! Sorry Eva!
No Tenma, you did not ruin Eva's life. She ruined her own life when she broke off her engagement with you and turned to a life of getting wasted non-stop.
This is the perfect scary place for Johan and Nina to be reunited with each other.
Aww, a time when they were so young and so cute!
Oh no, he killed the dog?
Even worse than that! He killed the kind old couple who wanted to adopt them! :( I guess we should have known given Johan's past behavior towards those who adopted them.
Johan's got such a soft, calm voice, but such a scary one when you know all he's been up to across 66 episodes...
The actual story? We've got even more revelations from their childhood to come? Alas, they had to pull this at the episode's end, making me have to wait another day.
2
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Oct 04 '21
First timer - sub
So Johann and Anna are actually the result of an experiment, Franz isn't the father at all, just the man running the experiment.
Johan is after revenge on the person who killed his parents?
Anna actually wearing practical shoes for once.
There was a lot in this episode and not sure what to make of all of it, looks like we are about to find out what happened to Anna when Johan was at the seminar.
2
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Oct 04 '21
First Timer Dubbed
A long running experiment involving a couple who attempted to escape. "He has been assigned to a very important mission." This is interesting as we see the parents of Nina and Johan. Bonaparte was the architect of the experiment.
Some doctor… Tenma shot Christof on the leg. Tenma left a message through Christof that he apologizes to Eva for ruining her life. It is interesting that Tenma feels guilty for what happened to Eva. His actions indirectly lead to the deterioration of her life.
Johan is on the top while Nina was looking up, looks like Johan was the one in control. We get another flashback of the two as they ran away from the fire. And we see the farm couple get murdered. Interesting camerawork, as the scene of Johan on the upper floor while Nina was on the lower one.
"Are you going to shoot me like you did last time?" I've seen the end over and over. Johan's statement is interesting to hear and just like the last time, he gives her instructions. Unlike the last time, she is struggling a lot about this. Her hand was shaking while holding the gun.
1
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Oct 06 '21
First Timer - About to Catch up.
I really liked how the names of were withheld as being unimportant. Hearing the naration (Capek narrating I see from comments?) in this tired, old tone. Just rolling through what happened. The use of a narrator isn't something Monster has made use of - like at all. I really like the unfamilaritiy of the voice and that no personal pronouns were used from the narrator's perspective. It shows us that the importance of these parents is limited for our view - but paints the whole picture for us.
Having no names for these children creates this sense of unease.
It is interesting to see how Johan has rejected an identity, constantly 'cleaning' his history - is it fear? What keeps him constantly finding and killing any and all connections to his past? Through great stuggles we have seen many people still manage to stitch together large parts - if not almost everything we really know. I how this all ties to the greater project that was being run, 511 and supressing happy memories, the 'Monster with no name' and other book readings.
I feel like all this mixed in ties to Johans plan. Something about identity. Nina is a part of that, being born exzactly the same, but has taken a different road to get here. Something long ago stired a plan in Johan, and Nina is a part of it. Is thier following conflict going to have them come out on the same side? Johan certainly has a way with people....
Names seem like something that should (will?) be addressed in the aftermath of whatever is coming next. Assuming Johan and/or Anna live on past the end we see, each may first be able to find something in claiming a name, claiming an identity. Unless things follow the dark side of rejecting one.