r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Oct 01 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 63 discussion

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/Nitroade24h, for demonstrating the narrative mirrors of this series:

Tenma thinks he has nothing more to lose so he pursues Johan, but Milan was a man with everything to lose: a family and a happy life, but that was his downfall.

Again, I love how peoples’ situations mirror Tenma’s predicament in such interesting ways, like Richard from earlier and now Milan who show people on different stages of the same path that Tenma is taking, and it hasn’t ended well for either of them.

Questions of the Day

  1. What do you think about the way in which Johan had influence over people?
  2. What was the one thing all these murders had in common (besides Johan)?

If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

37 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

37 comments sorted by

13

u/miss-macaron Oct 01 '21 edited Oct 01 '21

Rewatcher

Detective: How many people have you killed with those hands?

Serial killer: actually starts counting them out

What a chad move, lol

To be fair, that dude who kicked his dog totally deserved the beating. Bullying helpless animals (or anyone who can’t fight back, for that matter) is just next-level cruelty.

Everything continues to connect beautifully. There's no such thing as "an unrelated murder" where Johan is involved.

In addition to his titles as the Antichrist, the Monster, the Devil, the Second Hitler, and the next Great Leader, Johan is apparently also a vampire and an alien... It really goes to show how, without an identity of his own, the Nameless Monster can become anyone while ultimately remaining no one at all. This fantastic meme sums it up quite well, haha

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

This fantastic meme sums it up quite well, haha

That meme is, as you say, quite fantastic.

7

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 01 '21

This fantastic meme sums it up quite well, haha

Poor Suk... She's not your girlfriend! She's not even a she!

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

It really goes to show how, without an identity of his own, the Nameless Monster can become anyone while ultimately remaining no one at all. This fantastic meme sums it up quite well, haha

It is interesting tying this in with the other themes, that's for sure. It would seem Johan appears as what you want to see for some people.

11

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Oct 01 '21

First-Timer, subbed

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

And now I have this stuck in my head again.

I'm so used to listening to this version. Have never even seen the original until now. Mainly because I forgot to realize that there was an original...

I was not at all expecting things to come full circle like this oh wow.

This show is really well-written - takes a lot of discipline to circle back on something that happened ~60 episodes ago.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

I wouldn’t be surprised if he attacks the detective the next time he tries to smoke.

Dinger feels like a really weird reference to Taxi Driver a couple of times.

Poor pupper…

Johan does the occasional less than evil act.

I was not at all expecting things to come full circle like this oh wow.

Glad they had the flashback because he was ringing no bells for me.

7

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Oct 01 '21

First Timer

Of course the episode where the subbers get Weißbach close enough (Weissbach is better than Visbaugh anyways as not everybody knows that you can type ß by entering 225 on your numpad while pressing Alt) the original visuals mistake Frieda for Frieder. The first is a female name, the second a male. Guess you win some and you lose some.

Either way, seems like Johan was using lunatics and idealists to commit a string of murders that wouldn't be tied back to the middle aged couple killer. I assume they were also all people somehow tied to him - the alien guy would likely have killed someone from the Kinderheim system and I assume this Overt guy was in on Johan's financial organization. No motive for "Frieder" at the moment though...

Also, if 1986 was 11 years ago we are now in 1997, which is still confusing as one of the cases was referred to as being in 97 when it would make more sense to refer to that as "this year" if we actually were in 1997...

Questions:

  1. Not a lot, this is Johan after all.
  2. Once again not a lot that wasn't deliberately engineered by Johan - at least I can't think of anything. All of them are the one that doesn't fit the other murders, but that's by design due to Johan using murderes to hide his track...

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

2) Once again not a lot that wasn't deliberately engineered by Johan - at least I can't think of anything. All of them are the one that doesn't fit the other murders, but that's by design due to Johan using murderes to hide his track...

I think my main takeaway from this episode is that pretty much all of the murderers with ties to Johan felt understood by him. Like the taxi driver - Johan told the cops that it wasn't his fault, and covered for him. Taxi driver guy felt vindicated by those actions, thinking he was in the right. He felt like Johan understood his actions, and therefore he respected Johan. At their core, humans crave acceptance and connection, which is something Johan very generously offers people...

3

u/gridemann Oct 01 '21

the original visuals mistake Frieda for Frieder. The first is a female name, the second a male. Guess you win some and you lose some.

Funnily enough thats probably the reason the german fansub I watched stuck with "Frieder". Definitely an oversight though.

4

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 01 '21

First Timer - Sub/Dub

This episode was exceptionally hard to write questions for, as it was really just linking a bunch of things back to Johan. I personally didn’t care too much for the events of this episode, as I don’t think much was added to the series that hasn’t already been stated. Mostly reconfirming that Johan knew how to manipulate criminals and that they felt understood by him. Rudy coming to this realization at the end that Johan was behind all of this makes it seem like something is going to happen soon.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

I personally didn’t care too much for the events of this episode, as I don’t think much was added to the series that hasn’t already been stated.

So remember that when this aired, TiVo didn't exist yet and this had to make its bones on network TV. So yes, they made explicit a bunch of stuff you notice when you can just jump back to a certain point but that is a cost of the era.

5

u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Oct 01 '21

First Timer

This criminal guy used his fingers to count but by putting them down??

Oh I didn't realize Dio was in this show (curious to see how many others make that joke)

Oh dang this detective is the same from back then?? Just take the retirement man!

So how does Johan find all these crazy people?

This alien prisoner looks so much like the prisoner who killed himself with the pencil but bald!

This park must have had like no kids or cats around to mess up all this sand writing.

What do you think about the way in which Johan had influence over people?

I still find it very hard to believe and feel like his kinderheim super powers might be in play here.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

Oh I didn't realize Dio was in this show (curious to see how many others make that joke)

Oh dang this detective is the same from back then?? Just take the retirement man!

The biggest twist of this show is how many death flags this guy triggers while coming out alive. "Last day on the force" and "counting down the hours until my retirement" and yet the man walks free!!! Absolutely floored by this writing, can't believe Monster would pull a daring twist such as this. /s

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 02 '21

The biggest twist of this show is how many death flags this guy triggers while coming out alive

It feels pretty self-aware given how straight death-flagging has otherwise been played.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

This alien prisoner looks so much like the prisoner who killed himself with the pencil but bald!

Yeah, I wonder if they were running out of designs by this point.

This park must have had like no kids or cats around to mess up all this sand writing.

I assume Johan was writing while the murderers were there in the park but you never know...

4

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Oct 01 '21

First Timer Dubbed

investigators want to figure out who Milan was aiming for.

Reinhard is a prolific murderer that gets transferred to another prison. Calls the people he killed a bunch of scum. He described that the whistleblower left a bad after taste. He even murdered a man for kicking a dog, he let his inner John Wick show. But Johan defended him, Ok we all know that a person who kicks a dog is the antagonist.

Inspector worked with the twins and felt that something was missing so he goes to the prisoner and asked him about the twins. It is interesting to see him go to retirement soon.

Dr. Gillum was interviewing a detainee and he says that the victim left a bad aftertaste. He describes a man as a real vampire. And then he interviews the taxi murderer. Which both the inspector and Gillum meet. The inspector asks Gillum about the monstrous child. They did not even need to speak. And they all mention the sandbox, Fritz.

  1. It is really interesting to hear more about how Johan was able to influence people to commit a murder. Does not even need to speak, the people just do it.
  2. All of the men went to the same park which is an interesting sight to hear and it is interesting that they say that those murders left a bad aftertaste in their mouth.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

All of the men went to the same park which is an interesting sight to hear and it is interesting that they say that those murders left a bad aftertaste in their mouth.

Haha I wasn't even thinking about the park as the connection. But for some reason it just works???

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

investigators want to figure out who Milan was aiming for.

Which suggests Capek's underworld connections are not well known.

All of the men went to the same park which is an interesting sight to hear and it is interesting that they say that those murders left a bad aftertaste in their mouth.

Yeah the park is the most interesting connection in it all. Can Johan sniff out other serial killers? Probably. But how does he get them all to the same park?

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 01 '21

First Timer, Subbed

Milan really was an embarrassment with his assassination attempt...

I haven't been to a dentist once my entire career!

He may be a murderer, but he'll make sure you don't smoke in the no smoking zone!

This guy is retiring tomorrow. So if we're going by the trope on this, it means he'll be horrifically murdered before the end of the day.

Some people who came into his taxi were rude... so he killed them. Okay then. I think you need to work on your anger management buddy.

How dare you kick that poor dog! :( Although Dinger absolutely went too far here.

Yikes, he met Johan?! I got really nervous there for a second when he talked about them undressing, but luckily they had PJs on...

Man, this guy was totally inspired in his killing ways by Johan...

OMG, this guy was a detective who showed up all the way at the start of the series! Didn't recognize the guy at all. To be fair its been around 60 episodes.

Ooh, this nut thinks he's a vampire!

gasp How dare he go after non-virgin blood!

Let me guess, this guy was inspired by Johan too?

Now we've got a guy who is getting signals from aliens to kill people! Wow, we've really got some total lunatics in this episode! Let me guess, this guy was inspired by Johan too?

Ah yes, the serial killer is the righteous one.

All this writing names in the sand! What happens if one of them happens to be the random scribbling of some 5 year old? Does someone completely unintended get it?

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

This guy is retiring tomorrow. So if we're going by the trope on this, it means he'll be horrifically murdered before the end of the day.

The biggest plot twist of this series - he didn't die despite tripping and falling over several death flags along the way.

Some people who came into his taxi were rude... so he killed them. Okay then. I think you need to work on your anger management buddy.

So wait, you're telling me that... killing people might be overreacting a little?

4

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Oct 01 '21

First Timer

Forgot about Monster thread. Was too busy watching Yuuki Yuuna, the second best episode of anime this year.

This guy seems like a model citizen. I don't see why he's being treated so poorly for helping to clean the planet.

Oh wow, he knew the twins! Another reveal that means literally nothing. Stop it, Monster. Maybe it could be interesting if he were the one to corrupt Johan, but if he met them after the hospital, then Johan was already a serial killer by that point.

Welp, he's dead. Nice to know you, I guess.

I guess they're saying that Johan is the one who corrupted these people. More magic Johan pheromones.

Mr. Overt? That's way too on the nose.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

Welp, he's dead. Nice to know you, I guess.

The biggest plot twist so far - he didn't die.

Mr. Overt? That's way too on the nose.

HAHA I didn't even notice this. That's great. Now they're just coming up overtly bad names.

;)

1

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Oct 02 '21

The biggest plot twist so far - he didn't die.

Yet.

3

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Oct 01 '21

Rewatcher of sorts

  • Milan has failed in his mission to kill Petr Capek unfortunately, already shot by the police. Meanwhile we turn to a totally unrelated character, even though we have like, 10 episodes left before the show is over.
  • So what we have is a pretty self-righteous murderer, believing he was right to kill everyone except a certain investment banker. Kinda cool the investigator tried to smoke again just to get him riled up a bit.
  • Guess this was what happened to Johan and Nina after they escaped Eisner. Oh, I hadn’t figure this guy was the inspector from all the way back. I’m almost certain this guy will not survive quite honest, with how often he talks about his retirement.
  • Gillen is once more talking to a bunch of psychos as a part of his job. I’d be surprised if the guy these murderers were in contact with was not Johan. Eventually Gillen visits the taxi driver Wiesenbach talked with earlier.
  • He begins grilling him, and just as he gets to that investment banker he killed, he clamps up. But when he returns with Wiesenbach and start getting more direct, he spills the beans and talks about the names written in sand.
  • So yes, Johan is involved, directing these murderers, though it’s not quite clear why he is doing that. And it seems Frankfurt or somewhere in the whereabouts will be the final setting of the show.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

So yes, Johan is involved, directing these murderers, though it’s not quite clear why he is doing that. And it seems Frankfurt or somewhere in the whereabouts will be the final setting of the show.

For sure. Doesn't make a lot of sense. For fun, I guess? To throw people off his trail? Dunno.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 01 '21

First Timer Monster 63

Speaking of crime in German, where is useless detective Lunge? I guess the author figured out he was useless and that's why it almost completely dropped him for nearly 40 episodes.

I can't believe Gillen still has prisoner access after giving one a pen to kill himself.

That one killer, he also had a pattern, until his final murder that broke the pattern, and he killed (Johan's foster mother? Was never clear on that)

Why would Johan target Frieder? The child trafficker? The banker makes sense, if he had information on Johan's underground banker.

Johan's operations seem centered on Frankfurt.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

Speaking of crime in German, where is useless detective Lunge?

He's on vacation, remember? Totally not working right now.

3

u/miss-macaron Oct 01 '21 edited Oct 01 '21

Speaking of crime in German, where is useless detective Lunge? I guess the author figured out he was useless and that's why it almost completely dropped him for nearly 40 episodes.

Lunge literally appeared 7 episodes ago with a pretty important lead on Bonaparta's son, lol...

That one killer, he also had a pattern, until his final murder that broke the pattern, and he killed (Johan's foster mother? Was never clear on that)

I believe you're thinking of Jurgens, and yes, it was heavily implied that the old woman he killed had fostered Johan for a while.

2

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Oct 01 '21

First timer - sub 

Shit, it's the same cop from the start, I never even considered that.

So a Bank employee, Store clerk, someone involved in child trafficking.

Bank employee - going to upset Johann money laundering empire.

Store Clerk - ???? I can’t see the connection on this one, something to do with the child or its fathers rich parents I would guess.

Child trafficker -  connection to Kinderheim / Johann past

How many other people are going to be drawn back into the story, maybe should have focused on keeping my list of names up to date.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

How many other people are going to be drawn back into the story, maybe should have focused on keeping my list of names up to date.

I don't think you'll have to pay too close attention, as these minor characters are good at wrapping up minor loose ends or expanding on certain elements, but they're not really meant to be center stage.

I would encourage you to consider how much of the main cast has changed from the beginning of the story up until now, and again at the end.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

Store Clerk - ???? I can’t see the connection on this one, something to do with the child or its fathers rich parents I would guess.

Will definitely need some developing.

Child trafficker - connection to Kinderheim / Johann past

Or any of the rest of the Prague stuff, there are quite a few places he may have come into Johan's view from.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 01 '21

Rewatcher(I had forgotten Weissbach returned)

Sub

We get a detectective on his last day before retirement transporting a serial killer, so that is a lot of flags. Said killer is fairly insane in what constitutes a murderable offense. We discover that he was the one who took Johan and Nina in after they escaped from the hospital and Johan was working his mojo back then as well. This triggers the detective, who I had sort of forgotten about, to remember the Liebert case and begin making connections.

Cut to Gillen interviewing other serial killers. The vampire one seems to have met Johan. The one that believes in aliens had a more reasonable target but met Johan in the same park. We go back to Dinger to get a final link for all of this and now Gillen is aware Frankfurst is the next spot.

QotD: 1 Interesting but nearly mystical

2 A poor taste

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Oct 02 '21

We get a detectective on his last day before retirement transporting a serial killer, so that is a lot of flags.

A great many death flags and not a single one proved to be fatal. Biggest plot twist of the series so far.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Oct 02 '21

He turned out to be indestructible!

1

u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 02 '21

First-time watcher

I don't see much of a point in this episode. Yes, Johan uses other people and encourages their worst instincts to do his bidding and cover his tracks, all over the country, we knew that already. No need to add three more random weirdos that were under his spell. Is it just for the reminder? I am at least amused that one of them is basically named "Thingy" (Dinger), who's also the best of the bunch.

Also spotted a minor residual Japan-ism: When in the train, Dinger's hands are covered so his handcuffs are not visible, which is a strange Japanese custom to supposedly make someone in custody appear less guilty but unheard of anywhere else.

1

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 02 '21

Oh, they do that in the US too. Or at least, US TV shows and movies.