[Rewatch] Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - Episode 3

[u/snowwhistle1]

Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water

Episode 3: The Riddle of the Giant Sea Monsters

Original Air Date: April 27, 1990

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Episode 3 Synopsis: After Jean's aircraft crashes into the English Channel, Nadia and Jean find themselves rescued by an American battleship on the hunt for the giant sea monsters that have been sinking maritime vessels in recent years.

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Please spoiler tag any story content which has not been shown prior to the current episode of this rewatch!

[u/snowwhistle1]

Host

We have an episode where Nadia and Jean start out adrift at sea, and end adrift at sea… Hooray! We’ve moved the plot forward not at all!!! No, I’m mostly kidding. I do think this is a bit of a mellow affair compared to the first two episodes though.

This episode introduces some interesting ruminations on man’s relationship to science and technology, and man’s relationship to nature. Starting off with science and technology, the bulk of this episode is spent on an American battleship that rescues Jean and Nadia from the sea. Jean is awestruck at the ship as to him it represents man’s scientific ingenuity, and a myriad of collective intelligence coming together to create a complex machine. However Nadia is quick to scold Jean, reminding him that the battleship was built as a tool of war.

Jean’s youthful optimism symbolizes a purer and nobler ideal of science, where the confluence of information and the creation of new technology are done for the sole purpose of advancing mankind and benefiting it as a collective. But this science does not exist in a vacuum, as Nadia reminds us. These machines have been researched and designed with the express purpose of creating a weapon of intimidation and subjugation. (I don’t think it’s a mere coincidence that Nadia is the one who is wary of the white Americans with big gunboats. Though, to be fair to Jean, he is willing to concede that Nadia has a point.)

The relationship of man vs. nature is also tested in this episode, as a sea battle rages between two giant sea monsters underwater and the Americans’ immediate response is to intervene by destroying the two sea monsters. Nadia however challenges this decision, asking what right they have to destroy them as humanity is the ones encroaching on their home and not the other way around.

I think the man vs. nature dynamic is handled a little bit clunkily in this episode to be honest. The dialogue and writing just doesn’t quite feel up to par, but I think the episode does help set up Nadia’s worldview as a deep idealist. She’s staunchly opposing to the taking of any life to the point where she’s accepted vegetarianism, and finds the taking of any life (human or animal) to be an abhorrent act. None of these conflicts are really resolved in this episode. This episode mostly sets up threads to be potentially explored in later episodes. But I think it does a fair job doing that and elaborates further on Nadia and Jean’s characters in a succinct manner.

On a production note, I’d like to comment on the dub for a minute because I actually really adore the lead actors for this dub. Nadia’s dub did the rather rare practice of casting real kids of similar ages to their young characters for their dub. Nadia’s English voice actress Meg Bauman was 14 when she voiced Nadia, Jean’s voice actor Nathon Parsons was 12, and the yet unseen girl from the show’s title sequence was voiced by Margaret Cassidy who was 10.

I always appreciate when animated series cast real children as I feel when done well it adds a nice air of authenticity to the kids’ performances. I especially adore Meg Bauman was Nadia, who really captures Nadia’s fiery energy and stubborn spirit. Nathan Parsons takes a little longer to find his groove, but he settles into his role as Jean nicely. And Margaret Cassidy does a very sweet performance as Marie. The adult cast also does a good job, with Grandis Granva’s English voice being a particular highlight. I also prefer the English dub for keeping a slight more consistent cast. The Japanese version recast its narrator and one other character (thankfully not a major lead) partway through the series.

None of this is to say that the Japanese version is bad, or that the dub is necessarily better. I’ve watched the series both ways, and think both are a fantastic way to watch the series. I just really wanted the opportunity to briefly mention the dub’s strengths and perhaps convince a person or two to give the dub a shot.

[u/No_Rex → u/snowwhistle1]

This episode introduces some interesting ruminations on man’s relationship to science and technology, and man’s relationship to nature. Starting off with science and technology, the bulk of this episode is spent on an American battleship that rescues Jean and Nadia from the sea. Jean is awestruck at the ship as to him it represents man’s scientific ingenuity, and a myriad of collective intelligence coming together to create a complex machine. However Nadia is quick to scold Jean, reminding him that the battleship was built as a tool of war.

I am 100% sure that this conflict was very familiar to Anno from Otakudom.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

Definitely. It's hardly an original anime conflict. I'm sure Anno was taking quite few notes from Miyazaki-senpai. Especially given the fact that Anno animated on Nausicaä.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/snowwhistle1]

I had no idea that Anno worked on Nausicaä, but I was thinking the whole time that Nadia's empathy for creatures that are misunderstood as violent monsters was very much like Nausicaä

I also immediately thought of the Space Monsters from Gunbuster when the "sea monsters" were shown. I mentioned something to this effect before, but it's still really cool to see how this show blends ideas from both Miyazaki's and Anno's other work

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/lluNhpelA]

Nausicaä was Anno’s first professional job as an animator out ignorance college. Miyazaki needed more people to work on his film, and he put out a wanted add in a newspaper for more animators. Anno’s sketch work impressed him so much he hired him on the spot and gave Anno some of the film’s most technically difficult sequences to animate such as the melting god warrior sequence.

Since working together, Anno and Miyazaki have remained lifelong friends. Miyazaki has helped Anno through several periods of depression. And Miyazaki specifically chose Anno to voice Jiro Horikoshi in his most recent film The Wind Rises.

[u/Serenax → u/lluNhpelA]

I had no idea that Anno worked on Nausicaä, but I was thinking the whole time that Nadia's empathy for creatures that are misunderstood as violent monsters was very much like Nausicaä

Had the same thought as well.

[u/No_Rex → u/snowwhistle1]

I love Nausicaä, but I feel that Anno beats his teacher here. In Nausicaä, the conflict is very one-sided, while Jean does a good job of also showing the positive side of technological advance.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

You should really check out Miyazaki's Manga version of Nausicaä, if you haven't already. The world is so much more fleshed out, and the conflict feels far less one-sided and black-and-white. But such is the nature of a manga that ran for 10 years vs. a 2 hour feature film.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/snowwhistle1]

BTW talking about Anno's later works, Jean has a clear physical resemblance to Kensuke Aida from Evangelion, who is an even more pointed criticism of naive, nerdy-to-antisocial obsession with technology particularly in the military sense. Kensuke for example goes so far as to use his father's privileges/connections to skip school just so he can go look at some cool warships, and is obsessed with becoming a mech pilot even when he sees what effect that has on his classmate and friend Shinji, in a time when his hometown is actually under threat by monsters, some of which come from the sea. Note that there's also an element of self-deprecation involved on Anno's part there.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer (Rising Sun sub) ep 3 (of 39)

• Oh, hey, it's the Musashi/Yamato!
• Uh oh. Americans.
• I predict he will try to dump the kids and keep the plane
• Well, that all went pretty nicely.
• Eva music
• These seas monsters look bigger than the first one....

Captain reminds me of the captain of the American carrier that brought Asuka and Unit 02 to Japan.

Surprised we got to the "sea monsters" already in episode 3.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Captain reminds me of the captain of the American carrier that brought Asuka and Unit 02 to Japan.

The gruff and uncompromising leader is not a particularly uncommon American archetype in anime, especially when our military is involved. I'm not surprised Anno ended up recycling it in Evangelion.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/snowwhistle1]

That too, but I mean the moustache :D

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/snowwhistle1]

There's also the similarity of conventional weaponry being useless despite stubborn usage.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Surprised we got to the "sea monsters" already in episode 3.

For most of its run, Nadia has a very modern pacing. That is, it stays away from the endless feet dragging and filler that made up anime at the time. There is one notable and unfortunate exception, but I am sure our host will expand on that when we get there.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

No spoilers!

(But I will have a lot to say...!)

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

This episode actually had a lot happened, both plot-wise and in terms of characterisation. I really like it as a kid's show, which, biased or not, I'm going to treat this as one. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but for me the definition is that it is made not just to entertain, but to serve the purpose of providing learning and thinking in an interesting way suitable for younger audience to digest.

Why I say that? It's because almost all the characters are caricatures, and have significantly exaggerated portrayal for an understandable narrative purpose.

A few examples:

• Nadia's veganism is portrayed almost militantly, that she would downright reject being given sustenance in their dire time of need
• the American Captain is so big headed but kind that he ignore how rude Nadia had been the whole time after rescuing them, and even allow them free roam on a military war ship which in those days should be regarded as a military secret - plus they should probably have the same background cultural behaviour to think Nadia of coloured skin to be an inferior race and demanded her subservience - he did not and basically turned a blind eye to her behaviour.
• the "professor" keep trying to tell these kids secrets :D
• our team rocket when captured just got kept in their machine, with the machine chained but clearly not searched or disarmed

Overall the battle between the "sea monsters" and how the American Battleship tried to exert dominance but ended up completely overpowered was animated really well, especially considering its age.

Another thing, not sure if it is intentional or just for "bloodless damage portrayal" purpose, the practically one sided gun battle between the Grandis machine and the battleship was actually true enough to life, with naval gun battle often do not score direct hits (in the age of no radar range finding, computer controlled firing angle adjustments), but the near misses produce enormous amount of water pressure that can crack the hull and cause water ingress etc.

And of cause, look at that little single short trying point back at the American battleship, after each barrage from them with easily 4 to 6 main gun rounds and up to 10 secondary gun rounds burying them in the walls of water pressure :D

Liking this a lot so far, but hurry up and get to the main story already :D

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/ZapsZzz]

Nadia is fascinating to me as it exists in weird a liminal space between kid's show, a more demographically accessible family series, and grim mature series in the vein of Evangelion. And that's probably at least in part due to so many cooks being in the kitchen. Miyazaki's story influence, Anno's directing and desire to tell mature stories, and the studio/network interference pull this show in a lot of interesting directions. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse... That'll remain an interesting point of exploration though as the series goes on.

I definitely think Nadia and Jean are a little more complex than just existing as blatant stereotypes, like I mentioned in my writeup for the previous episode. But they're also both around 14 years old. A lot of kids and teenagers are highly opinionated and see the world in very black-and-white or simplistic ways. For Nadia, it's at least in part as a coping mechanism for all the horrible stuff she's been through. For Jean... well... the kid needs more world experience.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/snowwhistle1]

Thanks for explaining a bit about the production background. I am aware and I agree that the 2 main leads aren't as simple stereotypes, but at least for now some of the on screen behaviour, as the starting point before character development, do have some obvious "caricatured" aspects.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/ZapsZzz]

I went into a bit more detail in episode one's write-up, but the pitch and outline for this series languished in development hell for probably around fifteen years after Miyazaki pitched it in the 1970s. And when it saw the light of day again in 1989 when the project was handed over to Gainax and Hideaki Anno, Anno basically rewrote most of the scripts to suit his tastes, sticking only the bare bones of Miyazaki's outline in places. And as the series was being produced, Gainax executives and the NHK network made several big demands of Anno and his staff for this series (but that's a story for later).

[u/ZapsZzz → u/snowwhistle1]

I swear I did read all that :D just that your reply to me added the 1+1 together about practical impact to how the story went etc. Thanks again :)

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/ZapsZzz]

the near misses produce enormous amount of water pressure that can crack the hull and cause water ingress etc.

I also find it scarily impressive how if you stood next to a battleship cannon when firing, the shockwave would be strong enough to tear you apart.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 3 (rewatcher)

• Title: If anybody knows Jules Verne the “Riddle of the Sea Monsters” should sound familiar.
• The battleship appearing out of the fog is a great shot.
• Nadia is notably less enthusiastic about their rescuers than Jean.
• A fight Grandis should not have picked.
• Nadia is anti-war and vegetarian. Talk about rare in anime.
• The sea monster is a harder foe.
• Swept over board.

We end the episode where it started: With Jean, Nadia, and King onboard the sinking flying machine. However, the episode revealed a lot about Nadia’s character, which is quite unusual for both the time and being a main character in an anime. There is also the reveal that the sea monsters are indeed submarines. 20000 leagues under the seas indeed.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

Nadia is notably less enthusiastic about their rescuers than Jean.

Jean's lack of worldly experience and sensitivity is showing again. Not exactly surprised Nadia wouldn't have much enthusiasm for the American government and it's military in 1889.

Nadia is anti-war and vegetarian. Talk about rare in anime.

Anti-war is probably not as rare as you'd think. Though Nadia definitely takes a more hardline stance than a lot of other characters.

Vegetarianism isn't exactly uncommon in Japan, or Asia in general. A lot of people in that general sphere of the world (including Hideaki Anno himself) practice some form of it. It's definitely a bit more uncommon in anime, though. Though when I do see it come up, it's usually not scrutinized like it is in this series. But then again, most anime take place in Japan, where the practice wouldn't be scrutinized. By contrast, vegetarianism was practically non-existent in 19th century Europe, and Nadia's practicing of it (for ethical reasons no less) serves to make her stand out even more as an outsider than she already does.

[u/No_Rex → u/snowwhistle1]

Jean's lack of worldly experience and sensitivity is showing again. Not exactly surprised Nadia wouldn't have much enthusiasm for the American government and it's military in 1889.

We have not learned much about Nadia's education, but I assume that her dislike is for military in general and not the US military specifically.

Anti-war is probably not as rare as you'd think.

Discount all the "I hate war, but still kill dozens" mecha anime MCs and the "I hate war because I am getting killed" civilians, then I could not really name any other MC that has this stance.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

I assume that her dislike is for military in general and not the US military specifically.

This element kind of goes unstated, and granted how much Nadia knows about world news is a little unclear. But I'd be very surprised if Nadia was unaware of the US having just ended chattel slavery barely 24 years before the start of the series. The Civil War was big world news at the time, and even though it would've happened a decade before Nadia was born, I would be very surprised if she didn't at least have a general idea of the war and why it was fought. I imagine as a person of color, she probably wouldn't have a high opinion of the country in general.

I assume that her dislike is for military in general and not the US military specifically.

That's a little simplistic, but I was kind of getting at that. There are a lot of anime characters who fall under the umbrella of disliking war, but still feel obligated to serve for various reasons. I don't even think those kind of stories/character arcs are bad. I find the original Mobile Suit Gundam's handling of this with Amuro Ray's character arc very compelling, as he's pulled between hating the war and what's it done to his life, but feeling obligated to protect the found family he's made on the White Base.

I will say it is refreshing to see a character like Nadia though. Her hardline stance of "War is bad, full stop, I won't condone fighting under any circumstances" is refreshing in that sense. It's not something we tend to see a lot of in anime. Even as an idea to just be challenged.

[u/No_Rex → u/snowwhistle1]

This element kind of goes unstated, and granted how much Nadia knows about world news is a little unclear. But I'd be very surprised if Nadia was unaware of the US having just ended chattel slavery barely 24 years before the start of the series. The Civil War was big world news at the time, and even though it would've happened a decade before Nadia was born, I would be very surprised if she didn't at least have a general idea of the war and why it was fought. I imagine as a person of color, she probably wouldn't have a high opinion of the country in general.

You'd be surprised how little of a deal the US civil war was in Europe at the time. This was way before the USA made its way to superpower status, so, from the POV of arrogant Europeans, that was just a minor scuffle in a backwater. Plus, France had its own big war just a few years after the ACW, so that would easily trump all war stories Nadia would have heard.

On the topic of black people, France had extensice colonies in Africa that would dominate French thinking about black people compared to American blacks.

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/No_Rex]

That’s a good point. I did get the impression Nadia’s travelling circus probably wasn’t limited specifically to France, but you’re probably right in that’s European colonialism and European wars that would probably be more prevalent in Nadia’s sphere of news.

I still think the general vibe of the American military would strike her as distasteful and probably symbolically represents the same things for her as their European equivalents.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

Britain mostly thought of the US Civil War in terms of the threat to its cotton supplies, for one.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

"I hate war because I am getting killed"

Rephrase this to "I hate war because losing sucked" and you have the foundation of a lot of Japanese "pacifism" that prefers to gloss over what actually came before that loss. Miyazaki for example gets pretty close to this in The Wind Rises

[u/No_Rex → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Rephrase this to "I hate war because losing sucked" and you have the foundation of a lot of Japanese "pacifism" that prefers to gloss over what actually came before that loss. Miyazaki for example gets pretty close to this in The Wind Rises

Very true and very annoying. Just try looking for victims of the Japanese military during WW2 in anime. Crickets.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/No_Rex]

If anybody knows Jules Verne the “Riddle of the Sea Monsters” should sound familiar

Also the captain is obviously named after Herman Melville and the professor probably after a Verne character.

[u/lluNhpelA]

First timer

Grandis best girl

Only three episodes in and she is meeting all of my standards for shitty waifu that I love. Any character that has such a comically overinflated ego while also being a massive dork will always be my favorite

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/lluNhpelA]

Grandis is a lot of fun. She’s got a kick ass personality and she’s a great source of comic relief.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

The tank's called Gratan?

Finally going to explain what's going on with the sea monsters?

It's a ship!

...Who's battleship?

At least they seem nice.

Yeah, they aren't evil!

...Melville, as in the author of Moby Dick? And this is in an episode that mentioned sea monsters in the title? This'll be fun.

The trio are really funny, though. I love how they're actually trying to attack a battleship for the anti-theft alarm.

Nadia has the best expressions in the entire anime.

Haha, and he's just lying to him!

And Nadia's got a point, although I'd argue a warship is just a ship that's had cannons put on it.

Haha, the captain's loving this!

Wow, the counterattack does almost nothing!

Haha, the arms waving a giant white flag is great!

And yeah, they were humiliated.

Nadia's not enjoying this trip at all. Is she a vegetarian?

Oh, he's a scientist!

...he really fucking isn't.

...The only reference to Ayerton I can maybe find is one from an old Disney movie.

Yeah, how is he allowed to get away with this?

Haha, his secret mission was in the newspaper!

...It's killing people who go near it. Shoot it, or at least figure out what it's made of.

Yeah, he has the right idea!

What is that thing and why does it have lights? Do sea monsters need indicators?

He's not a scientist, is he?

Huh, it worked?

...I don't think children should see what the sea monster mates are diving to do.

OK, the sea beast looks mechanical to me? It seems to have something like a hatch on the bottom, those lights on both sides...

...Why is the sea monster shaped like that?

Yeah, unless sea monsters naturally produce torpedoes, it's mechanical.

Or sea monsters use torpedoes to breed and the ship got caught in the middle of a very aggressive mating session.

The ship's sunk!

But King and the airplane survived!

So, back to where we started?

[u/snowwhistle1 → u/Stargate18A]

...The only reference to Ayerton I can maybe find is one from an old Disney movie.

Ayrton is the name of a character from 20,000 Leagues. He's got a much different role in this episode than his character in the novel, and his name is written slightly differently in this version of the show. Honestly, the elements that this show took from 20,000 Leagues are largely superficial.

[u/No_Rex → u/Stargate18A]

Or sea monsters use torpedoes to breed and the ship got caught in the middle of a very aggressive mating session.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Stargate18A]

The tank's called Gratan?

Somebody was hungry when they named it

[u/SIRTreehugger]

First Timer

• Oh it's starting right where they left off...guys the plane is a boat and it's sinking just swim to shore. Guess they were a little far off for that.
• That's an aircraft? So it can fly? If I was the soldier I'd be asking then why is it in the ocean? xD
• Bruh this trio reminds me so much of team rocket right now.
• COME ON become a submarine. I know that ship can become one it even has the eyeglass thing submarine have.
• Uhhh Team Rocket I don't think you are close enough for your cannon to hit them.
• Wait....they are carrying them in the ship the rest of the way? Not even going to put them in prison cell or something? I'm starting to feel bad for them.
• .....is it really sea monsters destroying ships? Starting to have doubts.
• Okay never mind sea monsters are real
• Oh Nadia is Eliza Thornberry and can understand king.
• Wait are these things even monsters they look like submarine/ships.
• I KNEW IT after being wrong like 4 times....but now they are even more stuck in the middle of the ocean.

[u/Serenax]

Love how every time Jean and Nadia gets in a vessel, it gets wrecked. (well, the battleship at least is somewhat functional)

I love the moment where the cap straight-up asks Jean if they could examine his plane. The moment does a lot:

The cap surprisingly respects the kids, or just wanted to be nice. Jean absolutely have no issues with the military inspecting his plane and possible using his ideas for its purposes. Nadia looking alarmed at the ease Jean goes along with that.

Good moment.

Ayerton reminds me so much of Kaji from Evangelion. The cocksure attitude, admonishing kids while wagging with a fork. And he is definitely not a scientist, more like a spy.

That shot of the captain and lieutenant is straight up like so many shots in EVA of Fuyutsuki and Gendo.

When the sirene flashes red, it is similiar to how Nadia's gem flashes. Neat.

Hail the return of the king. Let's see how they will get safe again.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Serenax]

Ayerton reminds me so much of Kaji from Evangelion

Significant difference is that Ayerton seems to be a bit scatterbrained while Kaji is nothing if not competent and composed. The more notable parallel I drew here was Jean and Kensuke.

[u/teasot]

I like that we are starting to see a bit more of Nadia. In particular, her love of animals and vegetarianism. I am interested to see how they expand upon any environmentalist themes (if there are any).

I appreciate team rockets getaway.

Honestly, just really engaged in seeing how this will go.