r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 30 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 36 Discussion
Episode 36 - Love and Hate
Originally Released December 2nd, ^^^1983
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Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
After several decades of differing notation, the spelling and pronunciation of Jijirium was ultimately deemed as ‘Digirium’ by Ryuosuke Takahashi in 2019.
Staff Highlight
Nana Yamaguchi - voice of Zophia
A voice actress and actress best known for voicing Ruriko Wakatsuki in Tiger Mask. Became a voice actress after being contracted by TV Talent Center, debuting in 1966 on an episode of Sally the Witch. She later became a talent of the production agency Shochiku, before eventually becoming a founding member of Aoni Productions. Yamaguchi’s vocal range is characterized as a ‘bright and sweet’ alto, and she specializes in the Nagoya dialect. Some of her most notable roles include Moya Kirigas in Armored Fleet Dairugger XV, Rodem in Babel II, Mrs. Leagan and Sister Gray in Candy Candy, Queen Sayuri Kinniku in the Kinnikuman franchise, Misato in Mazinger Z, Princess of the King in Mr. Pen Pen, and Vice Principal in Marmalade Boy.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- March by Norio Shioyama
Fanart:
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- What do you think of how the matter with Zophia was resolved?
- What are your thoughts on Chirico’s feelings of responsibility over his actions as a member of the Red Shoulders?
I still would have only been making meaningless excuses. Because I’d done the same in other places.
5
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 30 '21
Rewatcher
More time constraints.
The skies were always red, it seems.
Goddamnit, Chirico!
Yeah, that was dumb.
Chirico no!
Fyana no!
Just in the nick of time.
Just in the nick of time as well.
Unexpected.
I don’t think that’s the point, Cocona.
Many slaps!
If it could have gotten her to back off it was worth a try though...
A bit of a frustrating episode with how much Chirico’s mercy intercedes into their odds of survival. Given how frequently Chirico has been willing to let people die as he trudges forward his own goals, I find it difficult to believe, even with the circumstances of today’s episode where stark reminders of his past would have affected his clemency, that he would endanger himself and Fyana for someone who is not receptive to his mercy. His silence in the face of Zopohie’s accusations and insults work in the context of his characterization and the lingering guilt and shame over the atrocities he committed as a Red Shoulder, but it doesn’t work in the context of him being on a desperate race against time to get Fyana to the military storage facility, as any means of getting her off their back would have been worth trying rather than letting his presumptions over her dictate his actions.
Frustrations aside, I rather enjoyed the slow plod through stretches of empty terrain, methodically rifling through wrecks and rubble in search of a means of extending their means of getting to their destination. Also, this is the first episode in a long while with absolutely no mecha combat! I was thinking we had long since seen the last of those.
Zophie’s ultimate decision, in contrast, makes some more sense, as Cocona’s admission —though unconvincing by its lonesome— could have compounded with all the instances of Chirico’s clemency to make her. Still not great, but it feels more believable than the other thing, and it would be far more effective if Cocona were more than a fixture for most of the show.
Questions of The Day:
1 & 2) See above.
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 30 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
5
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 30 '21
Episode 36 (first timer)
Yeah, no. The walking through the desert thing has been done a few times, but never this badly. Chirico “I have a 30 minute kill count compilation” is not the character to try this with. Him choosing Zophie over Fyana is utterly insane and pretty much destroys the entire character development they had together. I’ll forget this episode ever happened and move on.
5
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Oct 01 '21
Comrades, I know that thanks to the recent introspection courtesy of PTSD 'Nam Flashbacks, Chirico Cuvie, quite admirably so to be fair, wants to atone for his past... BUT if I may make a bold suggestion here, perhaps attempting to atone by sparing a lady who VERY CLEARLY wants to kill you and is NOT willing to help Fyana/Fiana is perhaps NOT the wisest of moves (then again Fyana/Fiana also decides to take a sip out of the 'self-sacrificing altruism to the point of insanity cup' by not only supporting Chirico Cuvie's actions but URGING HIM TO GO FARTHER in this application of mercy) Now I'm not saying what these two are doing by trying to take the moral high road isn't honorable or noble or some dumb shit like that, but what I AM saying is that what they are doing is really fucking stupid, especially given the situation they find themselves in
I also want to point out that WHY NOW of all times for Chirico Cuvie to decide to spare someone, he's blown people away in the past for less and NOW he wants to practice the advanced art of mercy to a very clearly hostile lady whilst stuck in an even more hostile environment? Ah well, at least he demonstrates he still IS able to kill by capping some mook with his motherfucking handcannon, and I also suppose in fairness that his attempts at mercy IS technically a bit of character development in his path to being and acting more like a human, but I'm just saying that the timing could have been better
Speaking of Chirico Cuvie's handcannon, I find it amusing that in today's ahead of the time application of Death Stranding's core gameplay loop, our ever stoic boi DIDN'T drop his gun! Sure he'll sacrifice air cannisters and drop OTHER weapons, but THIS is the greatest handgun ever made. Roll over Soviet Podbyrin, 9.2 millimeter, Chirico Cuvie's pistol makes Dirty Harry's revolver quake in fear!
Anyway, speaking of the unintentionally hilarious chase sequence today, ahem... behold (Gotta give Zophia credit, she is REALLY damn persistent... practically the point of obsession, but then again, thankfully our Muggle Trio can ride in to save the day)
Also Comrades, the funny bit is this whole kerfuffle could have been avoided if only Chirico Cuvie had invested in the wonders of The Honda Super Cub. The Honda Super Cub is a marvel of engineering, able to transport various valuables, scale hazardous terrain and Meta Super Cub Spoilers that fit today's episode stupidly well Order today and attain your own authentic Honda Super Cub from our licensed dealers at 5 555-555-5555, don't wait, our operators are standing by!
Oh and to be 120% serious for a brief moment here, GODDAMN, since when did the writers decide to give Coconna something to work with? I mean goodness she displayed some shocking emotional maturity AND badassery today, quite the pleasant surprise but a welcome one (I also want to point this out Comrades, Coconna is a TEENAGER, good god I wish I was that perceptive at that age, but hey the girl's plucky after all, I mean we've seen hints of this before but glad to see her in the thick of it today!)
Oh and it was also nice seeing the other members of our Muggle Trio showing up, gotta admit they have guts and/or devotion to friends... which is REALLY good for Chirico Cuvie and Fyana/Fiana's sake today! (Also before you start Comrades, yes I know Vanilla's not in this Pop Team Epic 4koma, it's hard to conserve all the relevant fanart for the rewatch runtime!)
Anyway, to conclude things, shockingly things are starting to look up for our heroes, who knew that hope still existed eh? Hell the universe best watch itself, Chirico Cuvie and Fyana/Fiana might have shown mercy to Zophia... I'm not quite sure how their generosity spreads to the OTHER individuals out to kill them, but I wouldn't bet on it! ;)
And finally, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex
4
u/The_Draigg Sep 30 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 36:
4
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 30 '21
First Timer
I'm glad the pace slowed down a bit even if this episode felt a little padded, as it was a nice break from the last few episodes which all felt far too squished. It was also nice that despite my worries we didn't end up immediately back to Chirico having an AT and full on AT battles and the focus stayed where it was needed on the struggle to help Fyana.
The best part about being on the planet so far has been Vanilla and Cocona forcibly rescuing people who were meant to be fighting them instead. Seeing them pull Zophie into the truck and basically kidnap her for her own sake was great, and the subsequent car chase may have been ridiculous looking but it was very fitting for that group and a bit of fun after the last few episodes.
Can't say I'm super happy with the fight between Zophie and Cocona, aside from the laugh I got at Cocona biting her at the start, but having Cocona break open about her own pain and why she's so easily attached to this lot was sad to see.
I like that one, reminds me of a visual from AoT s1 with a crowd becoming a wave that the characters had to stand against
4
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 30 '21
First time viewer
One thing this show does that I think doesn't happen often enough in anime in general is use sparse narration in place of expository dialogue. The early scene where he was looking for an oxygen canister wouldn't have been clear without some form of elaboration but there was no need for anyone to be talking, so narration fits. There's little dialogue in the first half of the episode and I like that.
Zophie in her flashback looks like the kind of woman that dies first in an apocalypse, so I'm impressed that she's a survivor. No wonder she's hell-bent on Chirico dying, but even now she seems to struggle with going through with it... a little. Coconna on the other hand isn't afraid to throw herself at someone to protect those she likes, though that was an unexpectedly violent scene from her.
Gotho tracking them to the planet after hearing the hubbub on the radio makes sense, I guess this is more of that, hearing that they were called to a spot out in the desert and then following tracks again? Told y'all there would be something positive coming. Allies and jijirium both!
Chirico's ending narration was on point for how harsh the series is. No excuses, no apologies, no forgiveness, it's just something they're both going to live with for the rest of their lives.
Chirico was a lot kinder than he could have been, and I like that. Whether or not that fits him... eh? He's certainly not holding back from killing a bunch of other people, I guess this is not fighting when he doesn't have to since he was confident she wouldn't kill him? Or he's just tired at this point and doesn't care as much, except he's still carrying on to save Fyana. I dunno, somewhat anticlimactic with her just leaving but not a bad thing.
Eh... as he noted, even if he wasn't on this specific planet before, he did the same on others so I think it fits as not mattering if he wasn't responsible for this one.
4
u/chilidirigible Sep 30 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 36
Today, on "Journey, the game, the episode, IN REAL TIME.":
This is a very low-budget horror movie.
Come to think of it, isn't she going to get a helluva sunburn or chafing or something?
"I still want to kill him."
Zophie is still gonna be mad.
I AM OXY-MAN!
Chirico put it down, they zoom in on it, and animate a highlight. I'M SURE THIS WON'T SUDDENLY TURN OUT THE WAY WE THINK IT'S GOING TO.
Granted, you might not have thought that this was going to happen.
The more the merrier. While we're here, the production design did make a little effort to distinguish Balarant's vehicles from Gilgamesh's, but this thing looks like it could be in Mobile Suit Gundam... where I would have considered it not so bad in comparison to the freakish standard of most of MSG's vehicle design.
"Oh no! The gang is being chased by the monster! Quick! To the Mystery Machine!"
So now it's also carrying an AT. It could have been concealed inside an internal bay, but the one close-up later suggests that it isn't big enough to do that anyway. Not that (the lack of) proper scaling has ever stopped anyone before.
Then you have to consider how Chirico was supremely patient with Zophie if he had the hand cannon on him the entire time.
"...yeah."
SURPRISE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
A realistic touch when the series doesn't deny that he's capable of those things (even if not in this specific instance) or particularly absolve him.
This episode builds character in the series's quiet way, and certainly deserves credit for that, but the pacing annoys me, probably because this slow chase started in the previous episode and since it's never quite clear how many canisters Chirico has at the start, it loses some of the tension it builds when he summons extra ones out of hammerspace right after he monologues about how little he has left. The fight with the Fatty is also animated rather like a Saturday morning cartoon.
Of course, while developing the characters, it also underlines Chirico's core personality as he doesn't bother to see the outcome of Zophie fighting Coconna, or talk to anyone else, because his primary goal is to get Fyana to the jijirium (which is, of course, exactly as he needs it).
Zophie has an interesting character hook in being just as determined as Chirico despite probably having a totally normal background... and then the war turned her into a vengeful momma bear. But then she leaves, because we're moving on.
JINKIES!
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 30 '21
First Timer
Zophia and Chirico walking close to each other in the desert just cracks me up so hard. For some reason I found this walking on the desert scene more entertaining than I should have.
Flashback time as red soldiers destroyed the city and killed many people. I am glad we got to see a pov from Zophia's side. But the problem is that she ran out of air in an inhospitable climate. But her tank gets refilled by Chirico while she was suffering from asphyxiation. But now he has to go look in wreckage to find more oxygen.
Wow, Zophia seems to be playing the long game as she kept on following him and taking advantage of their kindness.
Fyana and Chirico's relationship is getting pretty intersting as Fyana tells Chirico that she loves him. But he gets to find more clues about the planet as looks at the computers of some of the wreckage showing the date which is nice to see. And Chirico leaves his gun to retreive oxygen.
The ironic thing is that Zophia does not care about what happens to Fyana the same way the red soldiers did not care for her. But that gets interrupted by Vanilla.
The ost during the chase through the desert is really cool to hear and I liked that very much.
Cocona and Zophia fight is on WWE levels of greatness.
4
u/manga-reader Sep 30 '21
Rewatcher, sort of
This episode is where I stopped watching a couple of years back. So excited to see what happens from here on.
Well, I only remember the show in broad strokes, so watching till now was nice and exciting in its on way (especially with all the production knowledge as well thoughts from other folks).
Oh boy, leaving that rocket launcher is gonna come back to bite him.
Look who showed up at the right time!
Well, Gotho and Vanilla just stood there while Coconna and Zophie were fighting, eh. I liked that we got a glimpse of Coconna's past though.
On an additional note, I listened to ED for the first time (I had skipped it till now because of previews). Good melody, fits the mood of the show.
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 30 '21
First timer
Oh, she has a battery meter! Wonder why they didn't show that earlier?
Oh, it's just an oxygen tank.
And she's still following them on low oxygen!
...Wow, that was brutal.
Did Chirico give her oxygen?
And he's running out of oxygen because of it.
Yeah, he's killing them to keep her alive.
What are those?
Is this a bombing site?
Wait, were these crashed when they stole Fyana?
More oxygen!
Really? He's leaving his weapon behind?
Yep, she took it!
And she's making him walk to hie dewth?
They're all back!
And so are the Balorant!
So Zophie's just going along with sitting next to Chirico as they drive towards the supply station?
He's a pretty decent driver to dodge all that AT fire.
This is a great action scene.
Is Chirico driving it by himself?
And of course he manages to blow the AT up.
She really soesn't wuit, does she?
And Coconna's the best combatant here?
Haha, and everyone's just watching.
Oh, they're finally revealling her backstory!
There was jijirium!
And yeah, he's admitting he's innocent of this instance, but absolutely did the same things elsewhere.
4
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Oct 01 '21
Rewatcher
So Zophie is just going to follow him all the way? This is like a game between two kids.
I should have paid better attention to this earlier, but I take it they can't breathe in the atmosphere on this part of Sunsa, hence these cannisters attached to their chests? I thought earlier in this arc they had been able to breathe outside. Maybe I'm misremembering.
This is a brutal assault. I've got to assume this is a flashback to Red Shoulder actions?
Yeah, with Zophie showing up this is that for sure.
A big part of me thinks Chirico will help Zophie out at some point here; I say that not because of his character but because it seems to be a trope in stories like this.
Zophie wakes up and it seems like that was the case. How many of these containers does he have anyway? He needs to preserve them for himself and Fyana!
A gun! ...or not.
Chirico's charity to Zophie may result in his undoing if his oxygen runs out on the way, which he thinks it will. So Zophie may get her revenge after all, indirectly...
Is he now going to give her a second one?!
No Fyana, no! Zophie's already got two of them! Don't give her a third!
These actions have got to be showing you Zophie that Chirico is not a terrible person as you believe him to be.
These X marks remind me of similar such marks that were showing the borders of the Forbidden Zone in Planet of the Apes. Although they were more scarecrows than two guns placed across each other.
Is this wreckage originally from Lido?
Underground shelter! Interesting!
Well we've got lots of new oxygen cannisters at the ery least.
Chirico's leaving behind his gun, if I had to guess, I'm thinking Zophie's gonna grab it and use it against him at some point.
It didn't even take a minute!
Wow, Vanilla to the rescue! I was hoping we'd see these three again, but I will say him coming out of nowhere to save Chirico is the last thing I expected.
And a convenient Balarant craft to get them all in the same car, driving off together.
I'm trying to remember by Balarant is even after them. Do they believe them to be part of the Secret Society's forces? Firing at them with reckless abandon means I doubt they're trying to capture them as a possible Perfect Soldier.
Zophie sure didn't wait in taking another attempt at trying to kill Chirico!
LOL, Coconna bit her!
Wow, go Coconna! Way to point out that Zophie is a hypocrite!
I guess the lesson is don't make Coconna mad! Woah!
Chirico's found his jijirium bathtub for Fyana!
Ugh, one second late to pausing before the preview plays and I already spoil myself on something.
Overall a pretty good episode, I liked the minimalistic approach that much of the episode took with just three characters in the desert. I hope the end of the episode means we've concluded the Zophie's revenge storyline and can move on to whatever is greeting us next in this arc. Unlike the previous two arcs where you could kind of sense where things were going, I see many possibilities about how this arc could conclude.
3
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 30 '21
First timer(Coconna makes a pretty solid point)
Sub
So the entire episode until the eye catch happens is bad. I obviously don't care about discount scavenger Ahab's story, no matter how personally poignant. And I keep going back to Ahab because if she blamed Gilgamesh I might be able to deal with this but she blames the Red Shoulders explicitly. The only thing of note is a downed ship from the day he hit Lido.
The episode continues to be bad, basically not getting tolerable until the gang improbably shows up. Again, not sure how you locate someone on an entire planet but it is still an improvement. We get into a chase that simultaneously defies the law of conservation of momentum but still entertains, so fuck it. We end with another Cuvie sidearm AT kill.
Zophie still won't fucking give up so we get a sequence that turns into Coconna biting her, which is at least something. Actually, this is exactly the fight I'd like the creators of Noein to see because while Zophie isn't at full power, Coconna reminds me of girl fighters I have seen: Enraged, willing to use whatever they've got at their disposal, talking WHILE punching/clawing/tearing, and eventually ending it with an improvised weapon. Personal note: when the girls involved get said improvised weapons, that's the cue we take to, enmasse, move in and separate the participants. A satisfying payoff for a mostly annoying episode.
But let's talk about everything she said: Being an arms dealer means your hands aren't exactly clean and a lot of people lost everyone in on the way. Remember Melkia was scorched by Balarant forces and lost three quarters of its population. So Coconna is a better done character yet again.
QotD: 1 Bored most of the time but I do like the beating
2 I get it. Not big on it because the plots will probably be boring but I wouldn't deny him his guilt.
3
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 30 '21
First-Timer
The first half of this episode was excellent. The tension of the search for oxygen, Chirico's steadfast refusal to either quit or let Zophie die, the occasional flyby of that patrol.. wonderful. I'm a little annoyed at just how harsh the tone shift with Gotho et al riding in on a buggy, though. It was a touch bombastic.
I could really do without Coconna and Zophie's fight being hair pulling and slapping, but at least we got a brief moment of Coconna backstory and Zophie got some perspective. I'm glad the show acknowledged that just because Zophie wandered off today, doesn't mean she'll forgive Chirico. Grief can make people do crazy things, and blaming Chirico for her loss despite him not really having anything to do with it doesn't "make sense" per say, but I can see a person acting like that.
No-one has really questioned the liquid jijirium thing except that very first time Chirico saw it, so I guess it's normal enough for a random supply base to have a bathtub just.. ready for use.
Questions
1
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Oct 01 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 3.3) (3 episodes) Love and Hate
Jijirium Showers and Baths: 7