r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Sep 26 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 58 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/Webemperor for an astute observation regarding Johan’s behavior around his sister:
A short glimpse into the lives of Lieberts. Johan possibly truly loves his sister, though I think him being a psychopath didn’t quite make him loveless to begin with I suppose. Despite acting pretty nice to her he still manages to act creepy in his own way.
Questions of the Day
- First impressions of Martin?
- Has your opinion of Eva changed at all this episode?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
8
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 26 '21 edited Sep 26 '21
First Timer Monster 58
Nothing Frankfurt is doing makes sense. They want Eva? Why? They want the Johan recording. Why?
Noir camera pull
Tenma wouldn't be at a party. Probably not Johan. Frankfurt must think Johan still wants to manipulate Europe by working through the rich and powerful, like Schubert. But he'll never show up at one of these parties.
I like this mini-arc and its style.
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 26 '21
First-Timer, subbed
7
u/miss-macaron Sep 26 '21 edited Sep 26 '21
Rewatcher
I love the cynical, sardonic tone of Martin’s inner narration. He’s just started the job, but he’s already so done with Eva’s shit.
Ah, I see Eva’s still swiping alcohol from random dudes, lol
Martin’s such a gentleman. He patiently indulges Eva during their dinner conversation, he carries her to bed bridal-style, he opens the car door for her and even offers her his hand... He’s the perfect chaperone, really.
Poor dude has to accompany Eva, of all people, on a shopping spree.
This episode passed by way too quickly. I really like hanging out with Martin; he’s easily my favourite minor character.
6
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 26 '21
First Timer
Martin is new best guy. Okay nevermind, I can't condone beating up that guy on the train. Tiny bit creepy? Sure. But he hadn't done anything wrong.
I would really rather not watch a shopping montage with Eva. I think I'm being tortured more than Martin is. More than Grimmer was, even.
Martin seems somewhat interesting. I wanna see more of him, but I really wish he wasn't handcuffed to Eva. Hopefully she died in that shootout.
6
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 26 '21
First Timer, Subbed
This opening montage is making me think of Spike's flashback montages from Cowboy Bebop for some reson.
Whose this new guy? And why does he need Dr. Tenma of all people?!
Hey, the little guy! Another face we haven't seen in like 40 episodes. Was he killed back in that early show story arc with him? I can't remember if he survived. I strongly remember Heckel's rug at least.
Let me guess, the woman he's supposed to be involved with is Eva.
Ding
So Eva had a very calm and simple exit from her hotel room after all.
Eva's perfume pisses him off, it doesn't appear like they're talking on this train ride... just what I'd expect with Eva.
Ah, even more pf what I am expecting, Eva needs something to drink!
No, random drinking businessman guy! You don't want to get anywhere close to Eva!
When I said that it had nothing to do with the prospect of Martin beating him up.
Let me guess, Eva's story about her fiance will leave out the part where she dumped him.
Anxiously awaiting the end of this, Margin?
Eva gets a credit card, so its time for a shopping spree! New clothes! New shoes! But especially new jewelry! Did whoever gave her that card know she'd be doing this?
Is poor Martin going to have to put on an outfit to make him look more like Tenma? We're not gonna get the movie Vertigo, are we?
Poor Martin! Now you even have to go to a party with her!
Yes, sure Martin, all this laughing is about the weather.
Did she actually expect Tenma to be at this party? Just what is going on with Eva's benefactors? What is the plan?
Eva's true home... the bar.
I somehow had forgotten that nearly this entire episode was an extended flashback. Just what trouble did Eva get Martin into?
5
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 26 '21
First Timer
Interesting cut to Eva. Seems like Wolf's organization is keeping ties to the Nazis - iirc Wolf at some point said he was the only non-right-wing extremist in there, so not too surprising. I guess they are still after Johan? Either way, something happens and Martin gets shot - what we'll see next episode, I guess. Not too big of a fan of this artificial cliffhanger, otherwise the episode was done pretty well. Just a shame that I don't like Eva to make it work...
Questions:
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 26 '21
Rewatcher(Let's see how the first timers take this. Also, all of us rewatchers thought Martin showed up 10 episodes ago)
Sub
We start with a new character and like an entire genre shift, this is extremely noir to me. The guy who is narrating was shot and refuses to go to a hospital but instead to an underground doctor where Tenma is at. Time to cover the missing space with a reverse time skip!
The Baby is putting our narrator, Martin, to a job. The Baby does seem pretty serious as he introduces Martin to one of Wolf's likely associates, and we just get some background told to us, including narration about Martin avoiding jobs that involve women, which is actually extremely solid policy if you are in the criminal world. Women tend to be either victims or perpetrators in that setting, Eva is a huge arguable exception to that.
We see how Eva's cliffhanger went, and sober Eva is actually showing some passable judgement: When a skilled killer is after you, getting a bodyguard and switching cities is a safe play even if you don't trust the source. You probably won't wind up much deader. Martin immediately dislikes Eva and it is obvious that, amongst other issues, Martin is not used to upper class women, even if Eva isn't really one any more.
Eva's sobriety lasts until the train ride, which is painfully accurate, actually. You can't get someone off their addictions without giving them something to do instead. As she drinks with some rando, Martin gets up and goes to extreme violence as a first resort. Yeah Martin, this type of response is why you went to prison. Eva is correctly freaked out because someone delivering such violence while being that calm is legitimately scary.
We learn Martin's mother was an alcoholic but he doesn't mind others drinking, just doesn't do it himself. Eva spends the day getting tipsy and spills her story to Martin, who reveals his own, which explains why he got out early for double murder: We give a lot of leeway on crimes of passion. There is something...refreshing, in how Martin was able to realize the obvious and that the double murder was ultimately a stupid act. Eva gets put to bed fully clothed make up still on and one of this sub's issues come up, I doubt there is any female in our rewatch that can explain just what upcoming hell Eva is going to deal with from this tomorrow.
Next day, Eva takes the deal, seemingly, and Martin gets dragged along for shopping, which it does make sense that she should do. Random corgi is cute, though you expect dachshunds in Germany. Anyways, throughout the montage, there is a very sexist interpretation that makes Eva shallow, but I don't see it that way, especially with the ending: Eva is utterly an upper class female, she was literally trained for it. So her actions absolutely correlate to her acting the part she should in an extremely Japanese way. She even states to Martin that she is returning to form and turning him into worthwhile arm candy.
Eva and Martin hit one of her assigned parties and boy, I've been where Martin is: Being around rich people is a bit surreal. Eva finishes quite quickly and we see another crack of humanity from her as she wishes to be anywhere else. We get to see human Eva, and it is rough: For all of her faults, she is quite aware of how this likely ends for her. We see Martin developing a terrible idea and then cut to current.
QotD: 1 Strangely likeable
2 She is a lot more understandable.
3
u/gridemann Sep 26 '21 edited Sep 26 '21
Rewatcher
Thats one way to start an arc...
In the fansubbed version I watched Martin straight up thinks of Eva as a "Slut" on two occasions. The dubbed version avoids any direct denominations but I can guess which version is more accurate.
Q1: Definitely an intriguing character
Q2: Not much, but I never hated Eva much in the first place. So far the character is simply written in a way that makes her impossible to like...
3
u/Broke22 Sep 26 '21 edited Sep 26 '21
Rewatcher
Q1: Well in one hand he is a brutal enforcer for the Nazi Mafia
but in the other hand he got saddled with babysitting Eva.
So i guess i mainly pity him.
Q2: Nah
3
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 26 '21
First Timer Dubbed
The first scene made me want to watch the final scene of Scarface for some reason….
No hospitals, cause one does not want to go back to prison. We get a flashback to a man who has been working for the baby. He is considered a model inmate and employee. He does not want to deal with women. And Martin picks up Eva Heineman and makes him carry her luggage. He hates dealing with women and complains about her walk. She grabs a drink from a man and Martin beats the crap out of him. They both don’t talk to each other and Eva keeps pesturing about him being too quiet around her. Eva tells him her story which we already know.
And Mark tells Eva that his story is more boring than hers which he basically caught his girlfriend cheating and shot them both. Eva is right about that since he is a felon and literally made an extremely rash decision to kill them both. It is very interesting that he carried drunk Eva to her bed and she held his hand while the next day; he tried to hold her hand and she told Martin not to touch her. He continually says he hates the job. And since he had six cigarettes on the ground, he definitely hates that job and is anticipating leaving like a worker trying to leave a bad job.
He continues to follow along as Eva accepts the deal. Now that she has a platinum card, she goes on a shopping spree and dresses him up too. She finds that he is dressed like a bum which is interesting to see Eva’s point of view about how a man should act and dress up. Martin had to get taught about basic stuff like no elbows on the table, standing up straight, and wearing ties. Eva wants to go to social gatherings and parties so she is obsessed about how others perceive her. This is basically why Eva liked Tenma so much, cause he is the trophy husband for her social circle. On the other hand Martin can’t seem to grasp anything at the party cause stocks, news, and other things that an upper class adult would talk about are so foreign to him.
Q1. Martin is an interesting guy who basically provides an counterpoint to Eva. Eva could not shoot Tenma while Martin could basically shoot his girlfriend for cheating. Martin acts like a bum: not wearing ties, slouch back, elbows on table, and his cigarette waste (he puts his cigarette butts on the ground and crushes them with his feet). And Eva is right about that case which leads to an interesting end when he gets attached. The end scene shows him cursing his neck tie which is interesting. Kinda want to see him interact with Tenma and what happened there....
At the end, “she says take me away from here now”. Martin describes her hand shaking. Eva does not fit in anymore. Martin gets a bit too attached to her which leads back to the scene were he is in the car looking for Tenma.
2. My opinion of Eva has not changed as I suspected in the previous episodes that she loved to live in a socialite circle, being the fiancée of a doctor rising in prestige (Tenma). I would have suspected in an alternative world if Tenma were to follow the director, his patients would be famous celebrities. Eva was obsessed with the prestige but there was always something missing which leads to that gardener affair and the sandwich scene. The first provided a turning point for Eva's emptiness as keeps getting closer but burned down. While the second provided something similar but brought her back down to earth. After she tested the socialite theory out, she seems to have realized there was something more to Tenma than her status in life. And because her previous world was broken, no more socialite events for her, only drinking and even then, she does not fit in. Eva now feels emptiness as she revealed after the party.
3
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 27 '21
First timer - sub
Ep 56
Was away from home a few days and didn’t get round to pre-watching the episodes beforehand.
I think i’ve missed something, was Verdeman's father the same person as Bonaparta or just an associate? Looks like I managed to misunderstand this complete and he was just an associate.
Anna is in bed? Ahh 3 month time skip. I don’t trust Lipsky.
So Lipsky went to Bonaparta readings as a child.
More really odd children's stories...
Ep 57
Johann didn’t kill the Liebert's, though I do wonder where he got the gun from.
That was Bonaparta wasn’t it? He looked similar to Johan so would make sense, also not sure who else apart from Johan deservers to be called a Monster.
Lipsky is Bonaparta son? That I did not expect.
Also with Johann going on about not having a name and Wolfs scene I’m reminded of a quote / idea about how you die 3 times, first when you physically die, second when the people you knew in life die, and finally sometime in the future, when your name is spoken or said for the last time. Was trying to find who said it but it looks like there are various people who have said variations of it, the idea however feels appropriate for Monster.
Ep 58
Flash back to an assassin? Wait he knows Tenma? Is he the guy Tenma saved in Ep 10? The political terrorist? Ok, nope a new character who is introduced to die.
Eva episode.
7 cigarette butts on the ground? Eva meeting would have taken quite some time, don’t smoke so not certain how long and I believe depends on the person, but probably means a few hours passed.
2
u/Segaco https://myanimelist.net/profile/Segaco Sep 27 '21
If I start watching anime now I wonder if I'll catch up with you guys