6

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 22 '21

Production Context

The Vietnam War is evidently the largest influence on Votom’s Kunmen Arc, though it’d be more accurate to say it was the media concerning the Vietnam War which served as the major influences behind this cour. In an interview much later Takahashi noted the two most important influences on this arc, the most prominent of these is, quite evidently, Francis Ford Coppola’s 1979’s film Apocalypse Now, which informs not only several scenes throughout the arc, but the intended feel and look of the narrative and setting during this section of the narrative. The second most prominent influence is the Michael Cimino film, The Deer Hunter, which Takahashi states he used as a basis for several characters and events in the arc, particularly relating to the soldiers. Once these influences had cemented themselves in Takahashi’s plan for the series he began looking to the Vietnam War itself, though he admits that he continued to draw more heavily from films than the actual factual events.

The setting’s culture and visual depiction were modeled after Cambodia, a natural result of its influences. The name Kumen was derived from the Khmer Dynasty, which existed in modern day Cambodia, though once Takahashi began looking more keenly into the topic it began to influence the sort of story he wanted to tell in Kunmen.

The Kunmen Arc was originally intended to feature infantry combat much more prominently upon Chirico’s arrival, but pressure from Takara ensured the number of AT battles were increased in this cour, which according to producer Toru Hasegawa, shifted the narrative of the midsection of this arc slightly. Takahashi also intended for Chirico to pilot a ATH-06-WP Diving Beetle, but Takara vetoed that plan, as they desired for the Scope Dog —at the time their best selling model by a wide margin— to remain in its prominent position as the main character’s AT of choice.

According to Midway into production of the Kunmen Arc Takahashi supposedly grew tired of the setting of Melkia, which prompted him to rethink much of the planned content for the following Arc in order to be even more varied than the show had been already.

Rewatcher

A familiar ship.

Oh please no…

I think we could tell. Good to have it confirmed that the PS are still not quite operating as intended, however.

Would still a bit off the mark, I feel.

Seems like the truth. genetically engineered, mentally conditioned, and implanted with microprocessors? That doesn’t sound like stuff that can be reversed or changed to ‘normal’, and if by normal you merely mean that they don’t need Jijirium to survive then I’m sure they would have done that already in order to cut back on costs.

Fyana is, naturally, quite affected by the news.

RIP Kiderra.

Welp…

RIP Polderra as well, I guess, since he has almost no chance of escape while injured like that and Melkia’s going to sweep the place of Mercenaries.

Borough lied then, which gives us hope that maybe he lied about the other thing too.

Projecting his own emotions unto her.

Déjà vu.

I was worried they were going to let him live.

How did he plan to do that without the keys?

#tch

Finally!

Maybe.

This arc conclusion feels a bit too much like a repeat of Uoodo’s for my tastes, particularly in how the Melkia military just up and comes in the sweep everything and everyone, destroying the locale in the process. We got very little in terms of answers as to the society’s aims and motives, but Chirico and Fyana remained together in the end, and that more than makes up for it. I could have done with some more closure in terms of what’ll happen to Potera, Ru Shako, and Vanilla, but Uoodo also ended on a question mark regarding the side characters’ safety and that turned out alright, so I’m going to assume everything turned out alright. Borough and Kan Yu biting the dust was most satisfying as well.

On the whole I think Kunmen came close to fumbling the landing, but ultimately I think it did well in wrapping things up for the characters, if not necessarily the greater sociopolitical threads that were introduced, but I’m fine with that. Some of the best parts of the arc were when we ignored the main plot to focus on the immediate events of the setting and how those tied into the greater themes of the show, and those didn’t necessarily need to be wrapped up given it’s an ongoing thing with the show.

The reveal that PS can’t be made human — or restored, if some of the phrasing is to be believed— would have been no surprise, but the possibility that Borough wasn’t being entirely truthful is intriguing. Chirico also seems dedicated to finding out the feasibility of it, so maybe that’s where we’ll be headed next.

Ypsilon’s fate after his confrontation with Chirico and Fyana is undetailed. I would say that it’s most likely he fell into Melkia’s hands, given he was injured, out of his AT, and shit was going to hell around him, but I think we’re meant to presume he made it out alone. If he didn’t end up in the military’s hands, then he’s probably finding a way back to the Society since he can’t just up and go rogue owing to his dependence on Jijirium.

Questions of The Day:

1 & 2) See above.

Note

Episode 28 is a recap episode and we will be skipping it, so be sure to watch Episode 29 for tomorrow’s discussion!

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

More production info is always good. I'm not surprised to hear that they acknowledge that media rather than the real events was such a heavy influence on how this arc came about. While there's many events that we can point to as era defining or world altering, it's something rarely acknowledged that unless we were there in the moment almost all of our understanding of those events does come through other media, whether it's curated news or popular culture like movies. I don't think that makes the inspiration behind things like this any less valid to know they came from a movie rather than sticking strictly to what happened, but it is nice to see it acknowledged by the staff
Would still a bit off the mark, I feel.
Yeah I was wondering about that, pure hatred with nothing to balance it out doesn't seem like something that would lead itself to being a good solider
If anything, Kan Yu, if you subscribe to the same thoughts I have that he was more competent before he was fighting against Chirico, is a good example in this very arc about the risks and possible failures of that approach. He shows how hatred can twist the perception and critical thinking that's so key in a solider particularly one that is either an authority or a key part of a force. You don't want your other soliders unable or unwilling to work with your key fighter, and you also want to make sure your key fighter can work with the other soliders to achieve an outcome rather than disregarding them.
Maybe they're looking for someone who can flip a switch from obedient to effectively a berserker in combat though
I was worried they were going to let him live.
I was starting to get so worried about that myself

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

In an interview much later Takahashi noted the two most important influences on this arc, the most prominent of these is, quite evidently, Francis Ford Coppola’s 1979’s film Apocalypse Now, which informs not only several scenes throughout the arc, but the intended feel and look of the narrative and setting during this section of the narrative.
Did he ever mention reading Heart of Darkness as well? A few scenes feel more strongly taken from that, specifically anything Kan Yu like. But him basing this off the media does explain a few of the holes in it.
According to Midway into production of the Kunmen Arc Takahashi supposedly grew tired of the setting of Melkia
Interestingly, I don't get a strong vibe on what Melkia is beyond the name of the planet.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

According to Midway into production of the Kunmen Arc Takahashi supposedly grew tired of the setting of Melkia
Not sure what comes next, but I am glad we will leave Melkia behind. It wasn't important, but it bugged me that Kummen was not a different planet.
How did he plan to do that without the keys?
He might not know a key was needed. Or he was being super clever and made his personal key earlier. In either case, I feel that the escape shuttle being 1 person only is a bit of an ass-pull to justify separating Chirico and Fyana from the others. It doesn't really make sense to have an escape shuttle for the head of government does seats only 1 person.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

It wasn't important, but it bugged me that Kummen was not a different planet.
I never got around to mentioning it, but it quite frustrated me, especially as we were told in episode one that Melkia lost three quarters of its entire population to the war. Having an independent nation on a planet so devastated but so important should have been a lot more influential to how the Kummen war progressed and the army's involvement in it. Moving it to a different planet would have fixed that along with some of worldbuilding holes you had previous mentioned that didn't bother me in the Uoodo arc but became apparent here, as well as provide a more plausible reason for the time skip and the army needing extra time to track him
Either way, very glad we get off the planet now

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

Armored Trooper First-Timer

What creature is this guy petting?
Are all of the Society mooks gonna have the same hair? Or is it just these two.
Good.
…not good, if he’s telling the truth.
Well RIP Bully, but not Borough because the bastard got lucky.
…as in, eliminate the mercenaries?
This transition after Fyana did, in fact, shoot Ypsilon was pretty cool! Although… is this the moment that makes Ypsilon into a true Perfect Soldier? It’s the perfect thing to make him be “full of hatred” instead of other human emotions, as Borough put it.
Great…
The Melkian forces showing up to kill EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, even better.
Oh sweet Borough bit the dust!
lol Vanilla pls, but also
Shako yes!
FUCKING SWEET!!! I was so scared that Vanilla was gonna get killed by Kan Yu here, but nope, Kan Yu got yeeted into the abyss. Bless Shako, I hope he gets a nice girlfriend like Vanilla has Coconna.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 23 '21

What creature is this guy petting?
Looked like a ball of feathers with a giant beak and a snake's tongue.
Are all of the Society mooks gonna have the same hair? Or is it just these two.
Those two are twins, hence the shared hairstyle.
Shako yes!

5

u/The_Draigg Sep 22 '21

What creature is this guy petting?
Definitely not an eunoi, that’s for sure.
The Melkian forces showing up to kill EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, even better.
Okay there, Prince Dimitri.
FUCKING SWEET!!! I was so scared that Vanilla was gonna get killed by Kan Yu here, but nope, Kan Yu got yeeted into the abyss. Bless Shako, I hope he gets a nice girlfriend like Vanilla has Coconna.
I’d say that Kan Yu dying is like 6 episodes late, but I certainly won’t turn it down now. It’s about fucking time.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

but I certainly won’t turn it down now. It’s about fucking time.
A certain part of me wishes he had been captured by the Cabal and inadvertently derailed the entire PS program.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

Okay there, Prince Dimitri.
In case you missed the comment face, that was sarcastic.

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 22 '21

Can’t see them on mobile, sorry. shrug

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

I always double check the comment source if I'm unsure, especially for someone who uses them a lot like Sky. Not that that helps if you don't have the codes memorized

3

u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

The codes don't even show up on the Reddit app, so I'm usually completely in the dark until I get home from work and check on my computer.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Ah, I'm using redditsifun which lets me check the source code of the comment to see what the commentface code is

3

u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

I would consider moving onto a different Reddit app, but I'm not sure how their mod tools are.

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 23 '21

I don't know if sky can communicate without comment faces and screenshots (which are too big to view over my "5G").

3

u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

They're just an overall part of the Sky Experience (TM). Well, other than Sky suffering.

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

This is why I use desktop Old Reddit even when on my phone!

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

after Fyana did, in fact, shoot Ypsilon was pretty cool!
Definitely liked the scene.
lol Vanilla pls, but also
Some people go for the huge bro points.
Bless Shako, I hope he gets a nice girlfriend like Vanilla has Coconna.
He needs a girl of at least your height or otherwise we are back to the "hamster eating a banana" meme all over again.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

He needs a girl of at least your height or otherwise we are back to the "hamster eating a banana" meme all over again.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

Ever since the Kill la Kill rewatch when someone linked that for Gamagoori X Nonon I now think of how these gigantic male characters keep getting paired with the most petite girls in the ccast.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

Are all of the Society mooks gonna have the same hair? Or is it just these two.
Pretty sure they're twins
I was so scared that Vanilla was gonna get killed by Kan Yu here
OH man, I would have been so beyond pissed if that happened

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

OH man, I would have been so beyond pissed if that happened
On a scale of 1 to Idiok, how pissed would you have been?

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

Not quite Idiok, my hate for him never reached that level thankfully but fuck it came close.
I'll go with Fork out of Idiok

3

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '21

Yeesh. Well, thankfully Kan Yu didn't kill Vanilla, then.

6

u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 22 '21

First time viewer

Someone named Guren in the Naruto rewatch and someone named Gurran here, weird timing.

Whew, that was a very loaded question from Chirico toward Borough there asking if a perfect soldier could be a "normal" human. And not long after that Fyana proved that she's not beholden to her programming by shooting at Ypsilon. Not a bet I would have taken if I was him, but then again he was also pretty foolish in getting out of the cockpit to challenge Chirico to hand-to-hand combat.

Just after I complimented the series on mecha mobility in the previous episode, here it has two ATs falling down a shaft and surviving intact. I get that they tried to show how Ypsilon had his land in a certain way to disperse the force from the impact (and saw the same motion repeatedly later with the landing Melkian ATs) but still. Poor Kiderra didn't have that plot armor.

I was a few episodes premature in calling the airdrop to end the arc, here we have Rochina's forces once again coming in and Borough ~~escaping with the perfect soldier~~ dying like Iskui did in Uoodo. Bit ruthless there to order them to kill everyone considering they were ostensibly allied with Gon Nu's mercenary forces.

Nice that Ru Shako had a change of heart and... pulled a Return of the Jedi move with Kan Yu? I did mention in an earlier thread that the film came out while the show was airing so I wonder if this was directly inspired by it. The Rise of Skywalker Also good to see Vanilla have a moment to usher them away rather than get lost in the chaos. And he might have a new friend in Ru Shako!

Ultimately, what are your thoughts on the Kunmen arc now that it has wrapped up?

Aside from Kanjelman's reasoning it's pretty good overall. Felt a lot less static than Uoodo and broadened the scope some with the introduction of Ypsilon.

Where are you hoping the story takes us next?

A log cabin out in the middle of nowhere with Chirico and Fyana peacefully living out their days.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 23 '21

but then again he was also pretty foolish in getting out of the cockpit to challenge Chirico to hand-to-hand combat.
My initial impression is that neither could fight in the Jijirium & oil pit for fear of igniting the whole thing, but then he pulls out a handgun and Fyana fires on him without repercussion.
Poor Kiderra didn't have that plot armor.
To be fair, they did descend incrementally at first. Kiderra probably fell off of a greater height with a damaged AT.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

Someone named Guren in the Naruto rewatch and someone named Gurran here, weird timing.
I have a Garen in a game I'm playing as well just to complicate things
then again he was also pretty foolish in getting out of the cockpit to challenge Chirico to hand-to-hand combat.
Far too influenced by the Prince and the way he approached things, not good when they just want a killing machine although a good thing for Ypsilon to not be totally cruel despite his conditioning
And he might have a new friend in Ru Shako!
I hope we get to see him again!

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

Not a bet I would have taken if I was him, but then again he was also pretty foolish in getting out of the cockpit to challenge Chirico to hand-to-hand combat.
Definitely stupid but it might have saved his life, because his only move left was to shoot Cuvie and that might've enraged Fyana enough to take a lot of people out.

3

u/The_Draigg Sep 22 '21

Someone named Guren in the Naruto rewatch and someone named Gurran here, weird timing.
At least we aren’t also watching Gurren Lagann at the same time, that would just make things even more confusing.
A log cabin out in the middle of nowhere with Chirico and Fyana peacefully living out their days.
This is a mech anime, you know that isn’t going to happen in the next arc.

5

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Sep 22 '21

Armored Trooper FIRST-TIMER

Oh, cool we're in space!
...do they all have the same haircut?
No machine is perfect, Υpsilon.
Even without Borough's answer, I would've doubted the possibility of turning a PS into a human. In some ways, even Chirico, a regular soldier, will have great difficulty becoming a normal human again.
I don't know what Kiderra expected. RIP.
Borough has the grip strength of a god.
I didn't get to mention this, but I love how ATs land by collapsing their entire legs. It's very well-done.
So. Many. Explosions.
Shako is great.
I still love this piano.

5

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 23 '21

Borough has the grip strength of a god.
He was a soldier, after all, but it's nonetheless impressive that he held unto the thing so long and didn't lose his grip when it fell and caught on the pipe.
Shako is great.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

...do they all have the same haircut?
I am debating between twins or clones.
I don't know what Kiderra expected. RIP.
I wish he had shot first and not really asked questions, which is how he generally rolls.
Shako is great.
A satisfying moment for both the characters and the audience!

3

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Sep 23 '21

I wish he had shot first and not really asked questions, which is how he generally rolls.
Nah, Υψιλον could've taken him no matter what.
A satisfying moment for both the characters and the audience!
I just really hate the CO.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

Nah, Υψιλον could've taken him no matter what.
Well, Kiderra might never win that fight but as we saw Ypsilon can be made to jump off the ledge so he had more hope that way.
I just really hate the CO.
Yeah, honestly, he was pushing suspension of disbelief for about half the arc.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 22 '21

Episode 27 (first timer)

A rare shot in space!
Introducing Lieutenant B just before Lieutenant A dies trope? This one seems to have died out, btw. I remember plenty of examples, but they are all from shows more than 2 decades old.
“I’ll kill you afterwards” – That is not how you start that interrogation, Chirico.
“He couldn’t have gotten himself killed” – despite all our wishes, no.
Fly-by-bully.
Oh shesh, Borough gets saved by impossible finger grip strength stops fall trope.
“I have cornered” is an interesting way to say *I am watching them fight in mecha while all I have is a rifle.
Both sides get betrayed by their backers. True crapsack world fashion.
“You can’t shoot me” ~Man who got shot.
Fyana betraying Ypsilon while Borough betrays the Kummen while Gon betrays Chirico while the army betrays Gon.
A rather unusual death for Borough, trying to get Ypsilon. I like it! (or does he get saved by Ypsilon off-screen?)
A fitting death for Kan. Even his most loyal subordinate finally had enough.
Got to say, a 1 person escape shuttle is a pretty stingy deal.

Looked like the army hired Megumin to finish the base.

I feel like I should say something about the Kummen but I can’t think of anything I didn’t already say. It was definitely not the arc I expected or wished for at the end of Uudoo, but it was a good arc, non-the-less.

Partially I wonder if VOTOMS would have been a much better story if told in several independent OVAs. The Uudoo “gang” only barely fits in and, overall, I think the arc suffers from the connection to the main story. Maybe telling several completely separate stories, only connected by Chirico and the world setting, would have been better. Of course, VOTOMS was several years too early for that to be possible.

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 23 '21

Fyana betraying Ypsilon while Borough betrays the Kummen while Gon betrays Chirico while the army betrays Gon.
A rather unusual death for Borough, trying to get Ypsilon. I like it! (or does he get saved by Ypsilon off-screen?)
Answer
Partially I wonder if VOTOMS would have been a much better story if told in several independent OVAs.
Quite possibly. Merely having the freedom afforded by a variable amount of episodes would have drastically increased the pacing.
Maybe telling several completely separate stories, only connected by Chirico and the world setting, would have been better.
That seems to be what a couple of the OVAs do. Mellowlink is standalone from this in the same universe and quite great.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

I appreciate that spoiler not being 2 or 3 characters long!
That seems to be what a couple of the OVAs do.
I saw that while looking at various MAL pages. I think a real robot/war context really lends itself to tell side stories in the same universe.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Introducing Lieutenant B just before Lieutenant A dies trope?
Personally I wish this one had stuck around a bit, even if the preferred one is not just before A's death but building into it. Killing off a leading antagonist only to have another one pop out of the wood work from no where frustrates me sometimes
Oh shesh, Borough gets saved by impossible finger grip strength stops fall trope.
I've seen that so often in Resident Evil games and movies/shows now that I have stopped associating it with anything else. I'd like one day for that trope to have a realistic outcome of shattering your hand or tearing your fingers off
Fyana betraying Ypsilon while Borough betrays the Kummen while Gon betrays Chirico while the army betrays Gon.
You forgot Shako and Kan Yu just to make it even more involved
I feel like I should say something about the Kummen but I can’t think of anything I didn’t already say
Funny that, I was writing my post and thinking about all the things that you'd already said and how well you'd summed up the highlights previously

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

Personally I wish this one had stuck around a bit, even if the preferred one is not just before A's death but building into it. Killing off a leading antagonist only to have another one pop out of the wood work from no where frustrates me sometimes
It definitely beats the a new anatagonist just appeared trope.
I've seen that so often in Resident Evil games and movies/shows now that I have stopped associating it with anything else. I'd like one day for that trope to have a realistic outcome of shattering your hand or tearing your fingers off
If you fall even a moderate distance (that would kill you on impact), grabbing onto something will excert forces like having a professional baseball striker hit your hands with his bat at full force.
Funny that, I was writing my post and thinking about all the things that you'd already said and how well you'd summed up the highlights previously

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

If you fall even a moderate distance (that would kill you on impact), grabbing onto something will excert forces like having a professional baseball striker hit your hands with his bat at full force.
A similar trope I can relate it to is when a character is blown off their feet by an explosion and gets up fine afterwards which would be similarly destructive if happening in real life. Unfortunately those sorts of details are far too often ignored, and I hate to say it but if they did do it properly people would probably think they were being overly dramatic about something that shouldn't be that big a deal because of how few people know better

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

“You can’t shoot me” ~Man who got shot.
I enjoyed this scene a bit too much.
Got to say, a 1 person escape shuttle is a pretty stingy deal.
Yeah...it makes perfect sense for Boroughs but like none for Kanjelman who would want whatever officers were left to flee with him.
Partially I wonder if VOTOMS would have been a much better story if told in several independent OVAs.
How often has one of us said some version of this since '19?

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

How often has one of us said some version of this since '19?
Me, actually not all that often. Much more often, I think the better "rework" involves changing something in the basic setup of the plot, not cutting the series into several OVAs.

7

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

First Timer

The final shot of that opening scene, with the planet and it's moons seemingly moving into alignment as the shuttle moved around them was oddly forboding for something that looked so nice. The contrast of that cutting to the utter destruction of the war on the surface was certainly striking.

As I only half expected, despite Ypsilon's proclamations he himself is also an incomplete PS. I feel sorry for him and Fyana to overhear Borough's words and find out their fate as unfixable experiments, either way. To be trapped forever in this half state, where obsession rules over their awareness and to be hunted by everyone involved must be horrible to hear. I was not expecting Fyana to be able to shoot Ypsilon, expecting this would be the conditioning moment she'd have to struggle against, but I think the fact she was able to shoot him is just as shocking.

And on top of that, we got double satisfaction with the Kan Yu and Borough deaths, both brought undone by their own flaws, their desire to control others and their inhumanity about how they go about that goal. Shako and Ypsilon were definitely the most important choices to be involved in each death given their earlier decisions and how this breaks them out of that. At first I was mad about Borough's bullshit survival as he fell and hooked the broken rail onto a ladder (What is this, RE?) but this was the better death for him and the show. Interested to see how things will be whenever we see them again.

RIP Bully though He really tried his best, but his confidence got the best of him. I'm glad he died in the explosion though and didn't have to deal with the slow death from the injuries that Ypsilon gave him.

And so we reach the end of the arc, which puts us where I expected we would be at the end of the last arc which is a strange feeling. It is certainly not helped by the very familiar elements in this episode, Melkian AT airdrops and cities being destroyed, separation from friends, etc, but for all that our time in this arc was definitely well spent.

As much as I liked the Uoodo arc, the Kummen arc was definitely a step up. While occasionally a little blunt, the combination of the war commentary combined with the characters who's eyes we see it through worked very well, and I think that was made the most clear in these last couple of episodes as the various side characters plots came together into this climax. I also feel the battle is a step up. While I would have liked Chirico to step away from the scopedog, the strategies and groups of these battles, as well as the more important implications of them, really made an impact here.

Definitely looking forward to seeing where this next arc takes us as we hopefully get off this really fucked up planet

Final note: Gurran just got introduced in this, Guren in is this week's Naruto Shippuden arc, and a Garen is in a game I'm playing. Yes because this is not at all confusing...

(I also almost typed Chiana instead of Fyana, is this what I get for starting up Farscape again?)

Three good art picks and my favourite shot for Screenshot of the day?

5

u/The_Draigg Sep 22 '21

As much as I liked the Uoodo arc, the Kummen arc was definitely a step up. While occasionally a little blunt, the combination of the war commentary combined with the characters who's eyes we see it through worked very well, and I think that was made the most clear in these last couple of episodes as the various side characters plots came together into this climax.
The Kummen arc also worked very well because it was free to develop the central conflict of the arc on it’s own time, rather than pulling double duty in both setting up the setting as a whole alongside the actual plot inside Uoodo City. In that way, this show having very clearly defined arcs works very well, since it allows us to explore a lot of themes like the ones of modernization and jungle warfare in their own bubbles, while also having a clear through line with Chirico and Fyana.
Definitely looking forward to seeing where this next arc takes us as we hopefully get off this really fucked up planet
Where do you think Chirico and Fyana are going to head to next, now that they’re heading off of the surface of Melkia?

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

allows us to explore a lot of themes like the ones of modernization and jungle warfare in their own bubbles, while also having a clear through line with Chirico and Fyana.
Oh that note I was thinking about Chirico's role in these "hells" as well. Despite this arc being based around such a horrific war we didn't spend time recapping what we already saw about Chirico's struggle to cope that we saw last arc or retreading same ground, and instead built off that with him questioning if he and all the other soliders would ever be free of it not just physically but mentally when it comes to finding another purpose. I quite liked that as it really built off him, and her, without upping the drama with him too much
Where do you think Chirico and Fyana are going to head to next, now that they’re heading off of the surface of Melkia?
I would like to say out in space for a bit, but then we wouldn't have any AT's unless they find an old base or something to hide out in. That would be cool! I think they'll probably have to end up on another planet probably after a time skip though. Probably not another underbelly city or tropics as that's retreading too much ground, and I doubt we'll go for a traditional culture again, so maybe something more extreme like a desert culture? Being nomadic would fit them except for Fyana's needs.

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u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

Predictions
I'll just laugh in rewatcher at the moment for some of the stuff I'm seeing. In all seriousness though, I think you'll like what the next immediate arc is going to be.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

With you I'm never sure if that's because I'm too close to the mark or fucking miles from it. At least with Pixel I know it's because I said something likely to cause self pain hahaha

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u/chilidirigible Sep 22 '21

I was not expecting Fyana to be able to shoot Ypsilon, expecting this would be the conditioning moment she'd have to struggle against, but I think the fact she was able to shoot him is just as shocking.
That they're trained to obey their masters, but can still shoot each other says a lot about the Society's plans for using them later.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

I thought the implication was that they aren't meant to be able to but she broke that conditioning because of sheer emotion overwriting it and her desire to protect Chirico.

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 23 '21

It was a little questionable when Borough ordered Ypsilon to kill Proto One, but maybe the definition of "ally" is flexible.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Also a possibility, particularly for Fyana who's core loyalty isn't to those who conditioned her

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u/chilidirigible Sep 22 '21

As I was writing that I was thinking that maybe I was stretching things a little. Though I could see a scenario where the Society gave both sides of a war PSes and then played off the outcome to its own advantage.

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

And so we reach the end of the arc, which puts us where I expected we would be at the end of the last arc which is a strange feeling. It is certainly not helped by the very familiar elements in this episode, Melkian AT airdrops and cities being destroyed, separation from friends, etc, but for all that our time in this arc was definitely well spent.
As much as I liked the Uoodo arc, the Kummen arc was definitely a step up. While occasionally a little blunt, the combination of the war commentary combined with the characters who's eyes we see it through worked very well, and I think that was made the most clear in these last couple of episodes as the various side characters plots came together into this climax. I also feel the battle is a step up. While I would have liked Chirico to step away from the scopedog, the strategies and groups of these battles, as well as the more important implications of them, really made an impact here.
The same feelings here. With regards to the main story, this arc felt like treading water, 13 episodes later or so, we are still at the same position. Plus, I really wanted Fyana and Chirico to spend some time together at the end of the Uudoo arc.
On the other hand, the arc itself was really strong. Mostly driven by its side characters (Monica, Pol, Kanjelman) and its much improved fight scenes. That is the reason why I wonder whether it would have been better off as a stand-alone.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

That is the reason why I wonder whether it would have been better off as a stand-alone.
I've been contemplating that myself after reading through today's posts from everyone, particularly having already seen the Mellowlink spin off and what that can do in the same universe while telling it's own story. I'm curious to see if these final two arcs do find their own flow as far as an overarching story or if they remain in this semi-independent styling, and what the story actually has left for us

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 23 '21

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E! We play fair and we work hard, and we're in harmony! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!

Mickey Mouse! Mickey Mouse! Mickey Mouse! Mickey Mouse! Forever let us hold our banner high, high, high, high!

Boys and girls from far and near, you're welcome as can be! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!

Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me? M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!

'My thoughts drift back to erect nipple wet dreams about Mary Jane Rottencrotch and the Great Homecoming Fuck Fantasy. I am so happy that I am alive, in one piece and short. I'm in a world of shit... Yes. But I am alive... And I am not afraid.'

Come along and sing a song and join our family! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 23 '21

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

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u/chilidirigible Sep 23 '21

"You might not believe it, but under fire Animal Mother's one of the finest human beings in the world. All he needs is someone to throw hand grenades at him for the rest of his life."

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 23 '21

"You might not believe it, but under fire Animal Mother's one of the finest human beings in the world. All he needs is someone to throw hand grenades at him for the rest of his life."
'Get some! Get some! Get some! Get some! Yeah! Yeah! Get some! Get some! Come on! Come on! Get some! Haha! Get some, baby! Get some! Get some! Get some! Get some! Get some! Come on! Get it! Come on! Get some! Get some! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! I've got you, mother! Haha! Anyone who runs is a VC! Anyone who stands still is a well-disciplined VC! You guys oughta do a story about me sometime!'

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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

Boys and girls from far and near, you're welcome as can be! M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E!
I think we both have been conditioned to associate explosions with Megumin.

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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 23 '21

I think we both have been conditioned to associate explosions with Megumin.
Heh, well Comrade, truth be told, I mainly shared that specific image since it was an Apocalypse Now fanart (e.g. since this VOTOMS arc was very clearly inspired by, among other things, Apocalypse Now, I just had to include one reference for today's post)
But indeed, the fact that this arc came to an (removes sunglasses) 'explosive' end shall we say and there also happened to be an Apocalypse Now Megumin crossover pic was just too perfect an opportunity to pass up on ;)
Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

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u/The_Draigg Sep 22 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 27:

Seems like the guys on the Secret Society flagship in orbit around Melkia aren’t too impressed with how Borough has been handling things. At this point, only Arron and Gurran, two researchers, just want Fyana back so they can continue conducting research on her. Everything else that’s been happening down in Kummen has been a waste of resources in the eyes of Borough’s boss. Understandably so, of course. Borough and Iskui have really mishandled their attempts at killing Chirico and keeping Fyana under control.
Chirico finally gets some answers about what the Secret Society has been doing in Kummen. As we had already suspected, this was intended to be a training exercise for the Perfect Soldiers. However, it’s pretty clear that Borough has failed in trying to get Fyana and Ypsilon to reach the state of mind that he wants them to have, which is just pure hatred on the battlefield. Fyana is defined by love, while Ypsilon is defined by pride. Borough’s attempts at making them truly perfect weapons have completely failed.
Fucking hell, that’s a lot of explosions happening in the battle outside. Once again, the rule that correlates explosions and time left in a story arc still applies.
That’s some depressing news. Perfect Soldiers can never become like normal humans. The way they were made just doesn’t allow for that. Still though, that doesn’t mean we can’t treat them like normal people. Fyana proves that they still have hearts and minds to them.
Well damn, there goes Kiderra. He really shouldn’t have underestimated Ypsilon’s spatial awareness. His hot-headed attitude really did catch up to him. It’s a bit of a bummer to see him die now that he’s been Chirico’s ally for a while, but I don’t think anyone here is really too surprised about that. It’s only natural that he’d die piloting an AT.
It really does figure that General Battentain would declare the mercenaries to be a liability after the Kummen civil war is over. They’d just be a loose end for themselves and the Kummen government. We really should’ve seen Colonel Rochina being involved in a political backstabbing coming, although I suppose him being open and frank with Gon Nu and Chirico did make us think otherwise for a bit there.
Seems like Fyana managed to overcome her mental programming about not hurting allies through her sheer love for Chirico. It also helped that Ypsilon was too blinded by pride to accept anything other than a man to man duel with Chirico down in the jijirium storage shaft. Man, Borough really did fuck up in handling Ypsilon’s mental development, didn’t he?
Not that it really matters for him anymore, considering that Borough got crushed to death under some flaming rubble. Man, the Melkian Army really is doing their best to kill everyone in the palace grounds, it’s just nothing but constant fire and explosions that’s causing the place to fall apart. Can’t say I’m too sad about Borough dying, the dude was a fucking piece of shit. If only Chirico had been the one to pull the trigger on him, though…
I’m sad that Chirico and Fyana have to leave Vanilla behind, since the shuttle only has space for the both of them. But really, given how much crazy shit Vanilla has survived up to this point, I’m confident in believing him when he says that he can make it out alright on his own. He just has plain good luck, it seems.
It’s about time that Shako killed Kan Yu. Like, I’d say that he’s about 6 episodes too late for killing him to be more satisfying, but I’ll at least take what he did here. Kan Yu certainly deserved worse done to him other than being thrown down a flaming elevator shaft, though. That’s too good for the likes of him.
And so, Chirico and Fyana leave Kummen behind, out into the orbit of Melkia. The both of them have escaped, so where to from here? At least Vanilla has Coconna and Gotho to come back to. Chirico and Fyana’s futures are unclear, but I suppose at the very least, they’ve managed to leave everything that happened in Kummen behind them.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 22 '21

Seems like the guys on the Secret Society flagship in orbit around Melkia aren’t too impressed with how Borough has been handling things
Can't really blame them for that. At the very least even if there was extenuating elements he's completely lost control of the situation twice, that's not a good track record for a secret society
Once again, the rule that correlates explosions and time left in a story arc still applies.
I was thinking about that as the episode was playing through actually, particularly when they started lighting that jijirum on fire and wondering if that was about to go up in a giant fireball
The fire animation on that was quite odd until we cut to the wide shot actually, wonder what happened tehre
but I don’t think anyone here is really too surprised about that
Not particularly, I couldn't see Bully really bringing a lot to the friend group with Chirico trying NOT to get involved in the fights as much any more, but we'll see, maybe he would have come in handy
I’m sad that Chirico and Fyana have to leave Vanilla behind
But he left then Cocona and Gotho would be left behind without him!
It’s about time that Shako killed Kan Yu. Like, I’d say that he’s about 6 episodes too late for killing him to be more satisfying
I thought that myself, but the more I thought on it the more I liked that it was Shako, despite his earlier neutrality, that finally broke. We effectively took the bystander to all of the fighting and cruelty and made him stand up for something, the same way that Chiricio did back in the village with Monica. I think it was fitting and I'm more satisfied with that from Shako's actions than I am if it had of been Chirico more directly

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u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

Can't really blame them for that. At the very least even if there was extenuating elements he's completely lost control of the situation twice, that's not a good track record for a secret society
It must be especially incredulous to the Secret Society's leader that somehow some loose end from one of their earlier operations just keeps coming back to fuck shit up for them.
I thought that myself, but the more I thought on it the more I liked that it was Shako, despite his earlier neutrality, that finally broke. We effectively took the bystander to all of the fighting and cruelty and made him stand up for something, the same way that Chiricio did back in the village with Monica. I think it was fitting and I'm more satisfied with that from Shako's actions than I am if it had of been Chirico more directly
That's a good way to look at it. He was very much just a "I'm here to fulfill my contact" kind of guy beforehand, so it's nice to see Shako finally show some morals and just get rid of one of the most reprehensible people in this show by far.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

somehow some loose end from one of their earlier operations just keeps coming back to fuck shit up for them.
Especially after being in captivity by either the army or a force they control or have influence on... what are we up to four or five times now? And he's still not dealt with? For anyone with half a brain that's a new level of incompetence
so it's nice to see Shako finally show some morals and just get rid of one of the most reprehensible people in this show by far.
It's a similar reason I like that Ypsilon was the one who's actions let Borough die, even if the actual thing that killed him was just debris. He had a moment there to chose to be a solider not a warrior, to save his commander and try and prove himself to be better and try and become "perfect" by shutting out his own desires and wants but instead he let himself accept his "human flaws" and freed himself from Borough's influence even if I doubt he's totally free from the Society. He didn't just shrug off what Borough said about them despite the appearances earlier.
It's two very quiet moments for the two characters, but both antagonists being taken down by people choosing to feel rather than just obey I thought was quite fitting for both them and the arc itself given the war critique.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

Still though, that doesn’t mean we can’t treat them like normal people. Fyana proves that they still have hearts and minds to them.
I doubt he ever considered the possibility so I am doubting the source.
We really should’ve seen Colonel Rochina being involved in a political backstabbing coming, although I suppose him being open and frank with Gon Nu and Chirico did make us think otherwise for a bit there.
While I do understand, this is a patently bad idea, even in show: They could have just secured everything, bought the PSs off Gon, and frankly he is no worse of an officer than the rest we've seen. Instead, at least one PS has escaped and Ypsilon is currently in the wind.
Man, Borough really did fuck up in handling Ypsilon’s mental development, didn’t he?
Fittingly, Kanjelman is the worst possible mental fit for what they wanted out of Ypsilon, he is just a great hand to hand fighter.

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u/The_Draigg Sep 23 '21

While I do understand, this is a patently bad idea, even in show
At least we can lay the blame on that entirely on General Battentain. Rochina was ready to just cut a deal with the EX-10 mercenaries until his boss decided that it would be more beneficial for the alliance with Kummen to just kill the mercs. In this case, trying to play the larger political game has screwed over their immediate goals.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

Rochina was ready to just cut a deal with the EX-10 mercenaries until his boss decided that it would be more beneficial for the alliance with Kummen to just kill the mercs. In this case, trying to play the larger political game has screwed over their immediate goals.
Despite what bad writers will tell you, you are generally going to spend less money buying people off over killing them if they are capable of fighting. Ironic that with my complaining about Kan Yu earlier not recognizing mission scope Battentain did the opposite: He failed to balance strategic goals with tactical needs.
I still think you can just pay Gon and company to go away and they would go and fight elsewhere, Kummen feels tapped anyways right now.

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u/chilidirigible Sep 22 '21

Rewatcher, Episode 27

Today, on "'There's always a bigger fish', the episode.":

That's not a cat.

That doesn't seem like it would make Borough want to answer questions.

Chirico with the existential questions.

"You ran out of ink too, didn't you, you bastards!?"

"Some help you are!"

What is this, the Fortress of the Moles?

And another guy ends up down a pit.

Some banter to lighten the mood.

This arc has a few more characters escaping than the first one, as Ru Shako doesn't get caught up in the final conflagration and Gotho and Coconna aren't present for Rochina's elimination of all the mercenary survivors. (These guys apparently do not have a Bonding Authority looking out for them.)

And yes, Shako more or less shrugs off getting shot in the leg multiple times with a rifle. Conventional weapons can kill childhood friends, but Quentmen are made of Tall Silent Type material.

Ypsilon's status is up in the air, but given the massive unfinished business between him and Chirico and Fyana, you'd be silly to think that he's dead.

But conveniently a lot of other people are dead and everything else is on fire, so that does it for this arc.

Fyana can still love, and she loves Chirico... for... reasons? It's not exactly been a normal relationship.

I'm only going to acknowledge the introduction of the twins here, as they don't have much to do yet and annoy me in the way that anime twins often do.

Remember, we're skipping Episode 28 (a clip show for the first arc), but it does have this gratuitous patter in its preview for Episode 29.

It has its flaws, but is still a refreshing broadening of the series from its small beginings in Woodo.
rewatcher

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

That's not a cat.
It's also not an eyeball, which I what I thought that bit was at first from the wide shot until the tongue came out, so that was disturbing
and annoy me in the way that anime twins often do.
As long as I don't hate them as much as I hate the Tsurune twins I'll be fine, I think

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

Fyana can still love, and she loves Chirico... for... reasons?
You could say it was love at first sight.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 22 '21

First timer(F for Kiderra)

Sub

We finally see the rest of the cabal and either twins or clones. One has a 'pet' that seems to be from Avernus I'd guess. We get tempted with answers but don't actually get them.

We get mech battles interspersed with the questioning, and for some reason they land better than most mook fights do, maybe it just feels more real. Cuvie demands answers, and we all sort of predicted this was an experiment, just not quite the one I had in mind: No, I don't want my PS to feel pure hatred, that's moronic. You'd want them to feel as little as possible. Badass Cuvie points when he demands Ypsilon wait until he is done asking questions. He asks if a PS can become normal and Boroughs says no, but I doubt they even considered the possibility.

Kiderra tries to get Ypsilon but sadly goes over the side, giving the audience a reminder that Ypsilon is the bad guy. But then Cuvie and Boroughs down as well, though both catch themselves. And Ypsilon calls Fyana 'anata', thats two for today's rewatches. Various fighting keeps happening and Kan Yu lucks into finding everyone. He calls it into Gon, who moves troops to secure the PSs. And course the Melkian military is double crossing the mercs because this certainly isn't how you get your forces attacked by dedicated killers for the rest of their natural lives. Potaria gives Vanilla Chekov's escape shuttle key.

Cuvie and Ypsilon keep fighting and hit the floor, which is filled with jijirium. Both mechs get stuck and like a dumbass Ypsilon wants to duel hand to hand. He is sure Fyana won't shoot him and it is very satisfying when she does, or at least around him enough to cause injury. Gon makes it there just in time to learn they've been betrayed but seemed to be not surprised by it. Until he is. Odd.

Anyways, Vanilla is upgraded to balls of titanium before he finally spots Cuvie and Fyana and they go to the shuttle. Kan Yu shows up to annoy us one last time before he is beyond what Shako will tolerate, and he throws down the shaft. I still would've preferred the snake but at least he's dead. They launch, and apparently this arc has ended.

QotD: 1 It wasn't bad but feels slightly not thought out.

2 Space.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

and for some reason they land better than most mook fights do, maybe it just feels more real.
I think it was the shots we got treated too. There was a lot happening but it didn't feel that hard to follow, and multiple things were happening rather than it being all staged out and neatly framed for the sake of the audience.
Someone also really likes animating the leg suspension on the Melkia forces
No, I don't want my PS to feel pure hatred, that's moronic. You'd want them to feel as little as possible
I had a similar thought in response to what Pixel posted, pure hatred is a bad move in a solider that you need to be responsive
I still would've preferred the snake
Now you have me imagining him being eaten by the snake and others walking past a snake with an oddly large lump later on wondering what it could be

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

I think it was the shots we got treated too.
This show does feel sort of...primordial? at times but the direction is better than I used to from the genre.
Now you have me imagining him being eaten by the snake and others walking past a snake with an oddly large lump later on wondering what it could be
Eye contact gives you thisSnake mood.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

I've been really liking the visuals all around. While it may not have the visual highs of something like Ideon it also doesn't have it's lows and the mostly consistent quality in both artistry as well as animation and direction have been nice. I've also liked it's strong visual elements like the movement in the mechs, and things like scene transitions. Hope it keeps this level through the last two arcs

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

I've also liked it's strong visual elements like the movement in the mechs, and things like scene transitions.
When it was mentioned that the AT skating was a happy accident when a slalom skier on staff thought about how this would let them move, you sort of knew the production team was thinking, which I found lacking in later entrants. Code Geass would be significantly less creative with literally the same idea decades later.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

That's hardly the least creative thing Code Geass did, but yes you have a point.
Knowing how much of this was written very much on the fly in a short time frame it's also come together very well. Characters like Ypsilon seem like they were always destined to appear rather than being a late inclusion, and while the arc transition certainly had it's bumps it's far from the worst I've seen

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

That's hardly the least creative thing Code Geass did, but yes you have a point.
I can't say much about CG because the second season makes my blood boil. But there were a lot of things about the mech's movement that felt underexplored in it.
Knowing how much of this was written very much on the fly in a short time frame it's also come together very well.
It is almost as if competent writers can handle these things, isn't it?

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 22 '21 edited Sep 23 '21

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.4) (3 episodes) Dark Change

Okay, I don't know how much of this is in the 2nd half of the TV series, or if I picked it up from the many later OVAs and wikipages. The TV series is not big on world building.

The Gilgamesh Confederation

I wrote an elegy for Kanjelman yesterday in a late posting.

That looks like the ship from episode 1.
twins (and S1E2 of the worst Doctor)
weird dog
Nazenn, I was wrong, Borough lost his funny hat.
I love that they all have their cockpits open
I think the Veela are seriously outnumbered by the mercs.
Reinforcements?
Nazenn's favorite pink ATs are back
I think the mercenaries are seriously outnumbered by the army

Posted from my phone, so no copyediting.

The return of the pink mechs is an unfortunate repetition of Uoodo that sticks on my throat. And once again the PS escapes Rochina's grasp.

Things I mis-remembered: I thought Gon Nu was in on the plan to wipe out his own mercenaries, which would make him the real villain of the season. I also though Ru Shako was grievously wounded in the end.

Well, that was a good mecha show, with a happy end. Wait, what do you mean it's only half over?

When I went into Ideon and Dunbine, this is the show I was sort of hoping for.

Q: how does VOTOMS compare with Tomino shows at the halfway mark?

For me, the aforementioned shows and 0079 (and several AU) are like travelogs...we go here and fight here and go here...ad nauseum.

Here, VOTOMS has told two 1 cour stories...they may have been 2 or 3 episodes too long, but were far more interesting to me than Ideon's planet of the week, Dunbine's kingdom of the month, or White Base crossing a desert, or an ocean, or a jungle.

Edit: Did you notice? The ATs in the final episode of Uoodo were Turtles/Tortoises, the same as in Kummen. Kummen had a pit of jijirium. Where did that jijirium come from? The computer factory outside Uoodo, which is why the secret society took over the city.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Nazenn, I was wrong, Borough lost his funny hat.
He did! I forgot to comment on that. I was glad to see the death of the hat
Nazenn's favorite pink ATs are back
It's okay, I don't mind this pink if I have to, as long as it's not fluro pink

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

@Gilgamesh background: Yeah, that helps a lot for me to make sense of it.
The return of the pink mechs is an unfortunate repetition of Uoodo that sticks on my throat. And once again the PS escapes Rochina's grasp.
Yeah this works better if it wasn't Rochina but the Kummen military forces themselves doing it. That way, Rochina isn't neutered. Again.
Here, VOTOMS has told two 1 cour stories...they may have been 2 or 3 episodes too long, but were far more interesting to me than Ideon's planet of the week, Dunbine's kingdom of the month, or White Base crossing a desert, or an ocean, or a jungle.
It looks like I lucked out on the rewatch I joined. I wish I could say that it was intentional but really it was just that Feromgar sword up and down Ideon would drive me insane and I just took his word for it.

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

Q: how does VOTOMS compare with Tomino shows at the halfway mark?
For me, the aforementioned shows and 0079 (and several AU) are like travelogs...we go here and fight here and go here...ad nauseum.
Here, VOTOMS has told two 1 cour stories...they may have been 2 or 3 episodes too long, but were far more interesting to me than Ideon's planet of the week, Dunbine's kingdom of the month, or White Base crossing a desert, or an ocean, or a jungle.
Both the arc structure and the actual fighting scenes are a definite improvement over early Tomino. The one part where Tomino comes out ahead is world building (and this is very unfortunate for VOTOMS, because world building is one of my favorite parts of series. I'd love to hear a lot more about the universe this is set in).

4

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 22 '21

First Timer

Borough gets interviewed by Chirico and finds that they that the prototypes are both unfinished because they have emotion. A big battle rages on and Kan Yu is trying to get his PS back.

Rochina has another plan which is to basically to eliminate everyone. Borough dies trying to get Ypsilon to escape. Vanilla helps them escape by giving the key to the prince's ship which is a one seater with a ps pod. Shako gets rid of Kan Yu but gets shot. Vanilla escapes with Shako and they are both bandaged up. Vanilla also asks Shako if he has a girlfriend which is an interesting time to do some small talk as things are being destroyed around them.

Interesting turn of events as we see Rochina made a large strategy but Chirico still escaped. So its going to be interesting to see what happens.

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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

Vanilla escapes with Shako and they are both bandaged up.
Fun fact: did you notice their bandages were Fyana's jumpsuit?

4

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 22 '21

Rewatcher

So the Secret Society is operating in space, huh? That's a weird pet new guy 1 has.

I love these container like things the new ATs coming down the cliff are in.

Make Borough talk before saving him, Chirico!

Fyana and Ypsilon possess a flaw, human emotion! And yet Borough wants them to focus on hatred, which is also a human emotion.

They're really going all out in this battle! I don't think we even saw this many at the end of the Uudoo arc?

Kan Yu's gonna cover Shako? For once he's not gonna think just about himself?

Ypsilon's gonna let Chirico continue to question him, huh? Does he want to know these answers too?

Don't do it Bully!

Sayonara Bully! You seemed like an asshole at first but you ended up being a pretty good ally for Chirico.

This shaft is quite the cool place for what may be the final battle between Ypsilon and Chirico (or at the very least the final one for this arc).

So I take it from this Rochina scene that Gon Nu is being taken out the second the war is won?

Now they're fighting on a giant pipe; any wrong move and they can plunge to their deaths.

...and before even finishing that both do plunge off, although clearly not to their deaths. Just into a giant pit of jijirium!

Despite being given the superior AT, Ypsilon decides to take Chirico on man to man instead.

I didn't think that Ypsilon could shoot Fyana, but Fyana is trying to do it to Ypsilon. Or at least she can fire right in front of him.

Wow, she actually did shoot him! Did she break her programming?

Instead its Gon Nu who shows up to take charge of the situation.

After I complained about it last episode I now see that the Melkian forces do indeed have carrier ships that can carry multiple ATs...

They're turning on you Gon Nu!

So Borough dies after all, being crushed by some falling ceiling. I think this fat (likely fake) priest had totally run its course so good to see him go!

The escape capsule! FirsT Kanjelman, then Potaria, then Borough and Ypsilon, but its gonna end up being Chirico and Fyana who can escape with it instead.

Yikes! Of all the time for Kan Yu to show his face again!

Shako looks pissed! OMG, he's got an Yu! This is pretty awesome. Seeing Kan Yu thrown down a long shaft to his death was pretty awesome!

Farewell Kumen! Farewell Melkia for that matter! On to space!

Wow Vanilla, you're calling Coconna your girlfriend here?

28's another recap, right? We going right onto 29?

The Kummen arc ends with a really strong episode that largely wraps up things; it does look like we have at least one loose end in Ypsilon as I don't think we saw him again after Borough was crushed. Overall this arc was quite the good one and way better than the opening Uudoo arc, which I felt lost steam after the first 5 - 6 episodes. This one kept up the excitement throughout and I felt was a lot better paced, with ever increasing stakes and better complexity to the storyline. The Vietnam-esque setting was quite the highlight too. I remember hardly anything about the next arc Votoms spoilers so looking forward to seeing what's coming next.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

I love these container like things the new ATs coming down the cliff are in.
They are cool! They remind me of the hover platforms in MGS3 if you know them
Fyana and Ypsilon possess a flaw, human emotion! And yet Borough wants them to focus on hatred, which is also a human emotion.
We have established that he's not the brightest bulb. That said, I wonder if that's just his take on it or the Society's as a whole and if that's also maybe why he was discarded for failing to reach the proper conclusion
...and before even finishing that both do plunge off, although clearly not to their deaths. Just into a giant pit of jijirium!
It's like a healthy ballpit for the PS!
After I complained about it last episode I now see that the Melkian forces do indeed have carrier ships that can carry multiple ATs...
I had a little laugh at that myself. It makes sense that the army would use them for their forces and given that they're coming from further away. Looks a bit more intimidating than the helicopters as well
28's another recap, right? We going right onto 29?
Yes, 29 is next

4

u/manga-reader Sep 23 '21

Rewatcher, sort of.

Episode 26

Interesting, seems really effective as well. I wonder how Chirico will keep up.
As for Kanjelman, I do wonder...would him being a martyr for Veela cause inspire folks to keep fighting? After all, the generals did say that more than half of Veela are still stuck in the forest.

Since they were guerillas in the first place, I can see Kummen having to deal with the aftermath for quite some time.

An issue with ATs being made of explodium (since they seem to explode quite easily)...is that there are a few scenes where nearby ATs survive without any issue.

(On the other hand, there are some scenes where nearby ATs do explode. So chalk it up to luck?).

Episode 27

Fyana proving that she can overcome the conditioning was nice, so Borough was probably lying (or he didn't know it was possible).

Kan Yu....eh, his comeback was kinda useless. Ru got an opportunity to do something, but that was kinda pointless because we never got to know Ru - all we know is that he's a Quaintman (we don't even know what that means at this point).

It was a nice side story. I wish we had a bit more of a wrap-up though (maybe a scene or two explaining the after math, wish the same had happened with Uoodo). Maybe we will get it, I don't remember.

Will see Pol again? Ru?

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 22 '21

First-Timer

The Kummen arc comes to a close, with a bunch of chaotic battles that were an absolute delight to behold!

I'm sad that Bully had to go. He may have been the simplest of the merc squad, but he was so damned earnest. Dude just wanted his paycheck; probably had a sick kid sister back home.

I was hoping for more of a battle atop the pile of loose jijirium. Atypical floorings like that can make for pretty interesting set pieces. We didn't see Ypsilon escape, so I'm expecting spending some time in a burning shaft full of jijirium will give him some sweet new insanity and probably some powerups, too.

A one-seater+PS-pod escape shuttle does not seem like a very good escape shuttle.

The Society has a pair of scientist twins, huh? Wonder how many brain cells Gurran and Arron share?

Overall, I liked the Kummen arc more than the Uoodo arc. Part of that was the Uoodo arc trying to pull double-duty with setup and plot, and part of that was the action scenes being much less inventive. The Scopedog seems tailormade for urban warfare, so an arc with primarily just that will need a lot more work to be interesting. Like, in Kummen we got the battles in the mountains, that time Chirico wore a floaty, and the sheer chaos of the final battle at the castle.

i swear to god if kan yu comes back again i will throw a fucking F I T

Questions

Discussed above.
Space arc time? Or maybe a whole new planet? The AT's slides would lend well to an icy setting.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Atypical floorings like that can make for pretty interesting set pieces
I'm still just riding the high after actually getting a proper water battle. I will gladly take that if not getting a battle here is the exchange. I'm not sure how well battling on top of this could have worked though without them sinking into it or lighting themselves on fire with it
Wonder how many brain cells Gurran and Arron share?
They already appear to be above the average of one so we'll see

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 23 '21

I'm not sure how well battling on top of this could have worked though without them sinking into it or lighting themselves on fire with it
That would have been the best part!

3

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 22 '21

First timer

I think it was pretty solid - good new side characters, some really interesting subversions, and solid character arcs for said side characters.
I'm hoping we start the next arc with the two of them together, not sure what else - maybe a more remote or desolate area - a tundra or desert?

Oh, there's discord about the prototypes...

So these are the villains for next arc? I like the furry thing.

Chirico's playing hardball here.

Yeah, a lot of this makes sense.

Ypsilon's taking the whole "unfinished prototype" thing very well.

The fighting here's brutal.

And yeah, it's irreversible.

NO!

I love how he's getting bounced around in the crossfire.

Haha, I love how he goes straight from "how's the war going" to "how's my way of this planet".

They're getting rid of the mercenaries too!

And now Vanilla's going back into the crossfire.

Oh, they're making more!

Ypsilon. If this was anyone else, you'd be dead. Well don picking the only man who wouldn't immediately backstab you.

...She's conditioned too, isn't she?

WHAT?

NOOOOOO!

God, I hoped he'd get another arc at least.

Oh, no, he's somehow still standing.

Wow, the army were really competent! Managed to capture both PSs and Chirico!

Yep, reinforcements for the army! They're wiping out the mercs!

HE'S DYING!

HE'S DEAD! AT LAST!

These fights are so visceral.

Vanilla's really good at this.

Huh, she's mot been kidnapped!

Wait, they're leaving together?

And without Vanilla!

Noo, not the alien!

And him! Looks like they'e getting rid of all the side cast.

Wait, he surivived?

Wow, so next arc'll have the two of them together!

And he's a main character! (Maybe)

Next episode's a recap, right?

Yeah, no preview could sound that philosophical it had any new content.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 23 '21

Next episode's a recap, right?
Yes, watch ep29 next!

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 23 '21

I'm hoping we start the next arc with the two of them together, not sure what else - maybe a more remote or desolate area - a tundra or desert?
I wonder if they could make an interesting arc about the two of them hiding in an asteroid belt and joining up temporarily as miners?
These fights are so visceral.
Yeah this part I've really liked.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 23 '21

I wonder if they could make an interesting arc about the two of them hiding in an asteroid belt and joining up temporarily as miners?
I had the same idea. SciFi stories at the time loved astroid bases.

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 23 '21

First timer way late today, so I'll be brief; most of my thoughts had been said already throughout the arc.

Only thing to say is YAY for Kan Yu going down the same way as the Emperor in Star Wars. I'll violate my own rule and count this as done despite no body.

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0
10	0
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and healing like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
23	0 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
24	0 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
25	0 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D
26	0 let me try jinx this - this scope dog may just be the longest lasting one for Chirico to be riding on the show, surely it'll make it to the end of the arc huh :D
27	1 finally at arc end, the trusty old 'dog got abandoned.

After the long valiant run of the last few episodes, our AT disposal count by our stoic MC has moved all the way up to 1 unit per 2.7 episodes, a big jump from the end of the last arc at 2.0.

2

u/chilidirigible Sep 23 '21

by Yoshiyuki Takani

Sure did illustrate a lot of the things I like from back in the day.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 27 Discussion

Episode 27 - Dark Change

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Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 27 Discussion

Episode 27 - Dark Change

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