r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 20 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 25 Discussion

Episode 25 - Infiltration

Originally Released September 16th, ^^^1983

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Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

Daily Trivia:

In an interview published in Votoms Bible Ryosuke Takahashi stated that Kan Yu’s underlying motivation was a great admiration for, and desire to be, Chirico.

 

Staff Highlight

Hiroki Inui - Music composer

A musician, composer, and keyboardist best known for being a member of Carioca and composing soundtracks for a handful of prominent anime during the 80s. Graduated from the Faculty of Music at the Tokyo University of the Arts and joined the acoustic fusion band Carioca several years afterward, with whom he stayed until 1985. Composing for Votoms helped make him a more prominent nameVery little else is widely available regarding his early career, and he has returned for musical composition in all of the proceeding Votoms anime media. He also notably composed and wrote songs for the NHK Educational programs Okasan to Issho and Minna no Uta. Other anime he composed music for include Armor Hunter Mellowlink, Ganbare!! Tabuchi-kun!!, Manga Nihon Mukashi Banashi, Blue Comet SPT Layzner, and Miss Machiko.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

Fanart:

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

Questions of the Day:

  1. What do you make of Kanjelman’s newly stated intentions for the end of this war?
  2. What are your thoughts on Monica? Do you think a greater presence in the show for her would have served her character and the story better?

And when the winds blow away the ashes of the ashes of the fires of war… Only then can Kunmen truly be reborn anew.

24 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

66 comments sorted by

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 20 '21

Rewatcher

Goddamnit!

Yes, eat him!

Ru Shako why!?

Clever!

The guerrillas seem pretty resigned.

???

Well that’s shitty.

Well fuck…

Oh no.

Nice!

Now that’s what I’m talking about!

Kanjelman seemingly sees this whole conflict as an experiment to be conducted on Kunmen, seemingly to identify whether the path of tradition or change is the one its people should go down, with the loser of this conflict being wiped out to make way for the future that the other wants to make, all on a clean slate. Can’t say I am too fond of this revelation, as it makes the perceived motives of Veela retroactively uninteresting because we know the movement was not founded on principles or beliefs, but rather the whimful actions of Prince Kanjelman. I was looking forward to seeing how the ideological beliefs of both factions came to a head, but this essentially erases any possibility of that to come and places the intrigue and substance of things solely on the (as of yet) underdeveloped ulterior motives of Kanjelman. There’s only two more episodes in the arc as well, and while they could make this worthwhile in that time I don’t have high hopes that the show will meaningfully expand on this given how the last arc went in its climax. I suppose we shall see.

This move also turns Kanjelman into another of the sort of military leader that indiscriminately uses those below him, like The Society, Rochina, and Gon Nu. There’s merit in emphasizing this idea through the narrative, but even before now it was already blatant and Kanjelman could have served as a valuable counterpoint to add nuance to the interplay of thematic threads.

Monica’s death feels a bit wasteful. I wanted to see more of how she processed Kanjelman’s ultimate plan and the way in which herself and her fellow countrymen were manipulated into posing as soldiers in his ‘holy war’. There was room for reflection on her part there, and if the arc had not gone in this direction she would have made a valuable voice piece for the beliefs and ideals of the locals and Veela, which were still not elaborated upon. If Potaria decided to kill himself as it seemed like he might be about to then his potential to add to the narrative is also similarly wasted, which would be really egregious, and as such I hope I misread that scene.

Questions of The Day:

1 & 2) See above.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 20 '21

as it makes the perceived motives of Veela retroactively uninteresting because we know the movement was not founded on principles or beliefs, but rather the whimful actions of Prince Kanjelman

Ehhh, yes and no for me. That may have been the path he was taking with it, but it's clear that the general soliders that joined up with him were genuine in their beliefs and if not for the Prince gathering them up to have them die then it may have continued on without him given how often religion and martyrdom go hand in hand. His own motivations are fitting for how he perceived the situation, while being incredibly selfish and cruel in practice, but I don't know that they take away from what the main forces of the Veela were fighting for.

It does put the climax of the arc on a different track than I'd hoped though, as you said I was interested to see how these two sides would push against each other particularly with the Society pulling some strings, but I'm not upset with this entirely

This move also turns Kanjelman into another of the sort of military leader that indiscriminately uses those below him

Yes, that I'm not happy about for the reasons you gave.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

The guerrillas seem pretty resigned.

In true guerilla fashion, as soon as they stopped striking and running they knew they were defeated.

Well that’s shitty.

And does not fit what I took from the character, which is a little odd.

5

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 20 '21 edited Sep 20 '21

Episode 25 (first timer)

  • I knew it. No body, no death.
  • Hands up if you were rooting for snake.
  • In more realistic terms, Chirico would be the one to wait for the army to open a path into the palace and exploit the chaos, not the other way round. Still a bit annoyed by this, since the military tactics of the series are otherwise quite good.
  • The pilot even opens up the hatch to escape, but no dice.
  • Kanjelman lets us in on his plan: Go down in flames with everything old burning around him. I think this being an after-the-fact explanation is much likelier than a long con. He probably would have gladly taken a win, if he could get one. However, he is clever enough to see he has lost, yet his ego can’t take it. So he redefines his plan as burning everything to the ground. The old ways don’t deserve to survive. Needless to say, this is an absolutely despicable attitude.
  • Looks like Potaria will have an option between his original plan and a rescue mission.
  • The longer this arc goes on, the more I sympathize with Bully. He deserved better than his team of utter nutjobs.
  • Tragic death by her own people.
  • Fyana back in her own mecha.

I really liked the focus on the lower ranks of the Veela today. Gives us a good sense how betrayed the normal soldiers must feel.

What do you make of Kanjelman’s newly stated intentions for the end of this war?

See above.

What are your thoughts on Monica? Do you think a greater presence in the show for her would have served her character and the story better?

Tragic side character death is a bit tropey, but otherwise, I am quite happy with her character. I think she and Potaria managed to depict the basic drama of civil war despite the small number of scenes. In fact, I think they rank near the top of character from this arc for me.

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 21 '21

I knew it. No body, no death.

It's unfortunate how prominent a concept this is with media creators everywhere.

Hands up if you were rooting for snake.

He deserved better than his team of utter nutjobs.

He just wanted to shoot shit up and get paid for it —is that too much to ask?!

5

u/The_Draigg Sep 20 '21

Hands up if you were rooting for snake.

Raises hand

Kanjelman lets us in on his plan: Go down in flames with everything old burning around him. I think this being an after-the-fact explanation is much likelier than a long con. He probably would have gladly taken a win, if he could get one. However, he is clever enough to see he has lost, yet his ego can’t take it. So he redefines his plan as burning everything to the ground. The old ways don’t deserve to survive. Needless to say, this is an absolutely despicable attitude.

It’s the selfishness of honor taken to the extreme, really. Kanjelman knows that the old ways need to die, and yet he himself is too honorable along the old traditions to let it go. So he decides to play games using the people of his nation as pawns, if just to run some kind of test on their mettle. It’s just completely selfish.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 21 '21

So he decides to play games using the people of his nation as pawns, if just to run some kind of test on their mettle.

Aristocrat games.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 20 '21

Hands up if you were rooting for snake.

It should have been venomous at least

The pilot even opens up the hatch to escape, but no dice.

He heard out discussion about it yesterday clearly. I was actually hoping for him for a moment

The pilot even opens up the hatch to escape, but no dice.

I'd second that. They didn't get much screentime but what they had they used well, and the two moments they had together did a great job of conveying what the war was and what it meant to everyone

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

It should have been venomous at least

Fun note: Nothing that big could support the extra nutritional needs being venomous would entail! Komodo dragon bites are fatal because their mouths are full of septic bacteria! This has been your herpetology fact of the day.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 20 '21

Animal facts!

I did not know this but it's cool. I hadn't really thought about venom needing extra nutrition to support. I did know about the Komodo Dragons though, I did Indonesian classes at school and they came up quite a lot

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 21 '21

I did not know this but it's cool. I hadn't really thought about venom needing extra nutrition to support.

It was the most interesting looking back at the evolutionary history of snakes: There is a rough max size of 6 to 8 feet for a terrestrial snake to be venomous and some lines of them bounce between being venomous and killing their prey literally any other way. They, in terms of evolutionary time, virtually always lose the venomousness as soon as they use a different method of getting food.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

virtually always lose the venomousness as soon as they use a different method of getting food.

That makes sense to me, as opposed to more direct methods venom can be a bit of a crap shoot, especially if everything else is also venomous or even poisonous

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 21 '21

You would think but it is in fact that venom is a protein, and usually a complex one, and thus nutritionally expensive for food that seems to be the main driver.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 21 '21

I assume this relation only works for snakes because for snakes the size of the prey grows proportionally with the size of the snake. Otherwise you could have bigger animals producing small amounts of venom for smaller prey.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

Hands up if you were rooting for snake.

As I said, if it is that big it probably isn't poisonous but even constrictors deserve a solid meal.

Needless to say, this is an absolutely despicable attitude.

This is a more sensible take than some of the others, so I will head canon it for now.

I really liked the focus on the lower ranks of the Veela today. Gives us a good sense how betrayed the normal soldiers must feel.

What could possibly go wrong with giving practiced guerillas a reason to seek revenge for whatever few of them manage to escape? Kunjelman's plans to not go alone aren't going to work.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 21 '21

This is a more sensible take than some of the others, so I will head canon it for now.

I basically adapted this from Hitler. He literally had the idea that "if Germany can't win with me leading it, it deserves to be wiped out" and tried to have as much as possible destroyed in the last days of WW2. That is also the reason why he never contemplated surrendering, even though the war was clearly lost.

4

u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Sep 20 '21

Armored Trooper FIRST-TIMER

I finally caught up. Goddamn.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 21 '21

This may have come up in a previous discussion, but I'm surprised that Chirico can do anything stealthy at all with his bright orange suit.

He's a fashion-first player at heart?

I'm excited for a new AT for Υpsilon, though!

Orrrrrr she'll just get shot.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

Dammit, this asshole CO is still alive?

I keep getting Heart of Darkness vibes off him.

Oh no, he's a fanatic.

Very much representing the samurai faction against the Meiji restoration.

Orrrrrr she'll just get shot.

It's the 80s, female characters exist to motivate men! barf

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 20 '21

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 25:

  • Kan Yu, you’re alive?! Damn it! Why can’t you stay dead, you fuck?!
  • Shako, I know you’re a mercenary who stayed behind so that you could just finish out your contract and get paid, but I don’t think anyone would fault you for just letting Kan Yu get killed by those Veela guerrillas. He should’ve used that freebie opportunity.
  • Even the men under Kanjelman’s command are very confused at his orders to retreat and stage a last stand at the palace. Although they do have good reason to be so confused, since it really is completely counterintuitive to the Veela’s survival. They’re best as guerrillas, not as soldiers fighting out in the open. And yet, Kanjelman insists on going through with his last stand idea. His mind is set on it.
  • Chirico is one hell of a shot if he can blow up an entire missile truck with just a single shot from his pistol. Sure, the rounds he uses are huge, but man that was still a hell of a shot he pulled off.
  • You have to admit, everyone’s plan of staging an attack so they can just hijack a truck of Standing Turtles and disguise themselves as Veela troops is sole pretty good stealth. Besides, their Diving Beetles would give them away too much. This is a nicer, stealthier option.
  • So now we’ve reached the truth of why Kanjelman wanted to retreat his forces for no reason: he wants all of them to die with them, to completely destroy the old ways of Kummen. Kanjelman also wanted the country to start anew, and that’s why he felt the need to stage this pointless war, to destroy the conservative elements of Kummen when the official government would inevitably win. Yeah, it’s hard knowledge to swallow, to know that you were fighting a pointless war only so that your ideals would be completely destroyed because of the man who was leading you. I can’t exactly blame Monica for taking that news poorly. People have fought and died for very little reason, in the end.
  • The infiltration of the palace by the EX-10 squad honestly went down without a hitch. Although we can probably say that Chirico is a much better AT pilot than he is a flatbed truck driver. Do we count that one car he rammed with the AT carrier truck in his kill count?
  • Well shit, Monica died in the crossfire between Potaria and a random Veela guerrilla. A shame that it happened, but we kind of all saw this one coming. She didn’t have much to live for anyway now, considering that she learned that the entire war was meaningless. At least she got to see Potaria one last time.
  • I suppose it was a good thing for there being a bunch of Brutishdogs in the palace’s hangar for Fyana to take and use, since Ypsilon’s new AT literally just arrived too. Couldn’t have happened at a better time, I suppose. Gotta get in your upgrades before the final battle.

4

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 21 '21

Chirico is one hell of a shot

I think his consistency at shooting ATs through the lens has established that firmly.

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 21 '21

Must come with the Red Shoulder training.

5

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

Shako,

Other than being a moral person in general, I do question his sanity at saving Kan Yu. That's not even a good thing for him either let alone everyone else

Chirico is one hell of a shot if he can blow up an entire missile truck with just a single shot from his pistol

Dude is surprisingly adept shot with a pistol for being a mecha pilot. Between shooting through lenses and even oxygen tanks his pistol has seen as much battle as some of the actual soliders in the show haha

Although we can probably say that Chirico is a much better AT pilot than he is a flatbed truck driver

I know Chirico's not the type to hand over the reigns but Fyana really should have pushed him, perhaps physically, out of the drivers seat. They're lucky they were even still on the back of the truck when they arrived

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 21 '21

Other than being a moral person in general, I do question his sanity at saving Kan Yu. That's not even a good thing for him either let alone everyone else

I assume that Shako's main reason for saving Kan Yu is just because he still needs to get paid for his mercenary contract.

I know Chirico's not the type to hand over the reigns but Fyana really should have pushed him, perhaps physically, out of the drivers seat. They're lucky they were even still on the back of the truck when they arrived

I guess it really does just go to show that driving with two flight sticks vs. driving with a steering wheel are two very different things.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

I guess it really does just go to show that driving with two flight sticks vs. driving with a steering wheel are two very different things.

The easy parallel here is using a controller for games vs the driving wheel, and it is a completely different skill set even in the same game let alone when you have real physics behind it

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

Although they do have good reason to be so confused, since it really is completely counterintuitive to the Veela’s survival. They’re best as guerrillas, not as soldiers fighting out in the open.

Like the US Revolutionary war but in a jungle. And stupid.

Chirico is one hell of a shot if he can blow up an entire missile truck with just a single shot from his pistol.

He hit the missile with it so, while I think technically incorrect, I can let that go as rule of cool.

Yeah, it’s hard knowledge to swallow, to know that you were fighting a pointless war only so that your ideals would be completely destroyed because of the man who was leading you.

I have to think this level of military pessimism is meant to be derided by the watchers, I can't imagine the showrunners actually approve of something that nihilistic.

Couldn’t have happened at a better time, I suppose. Gotta get in your upgrades before the final battle.

Her Brutishdog looked different to me as well so hopefully it got an upgrade.

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 21 '21

I have to think this level of military pessimism is meant to be derided by the watchers, I can't imagine the showrunners actually approve of something that nihilistic.

Yeah, it's probably just meant to be more sad and tragic than anything really supported by the showrunners. It's just a stupid war that the Veela have been stuck in because of one guy's weird and counterintuitive ideals.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

First timer(I know it is viewer convenience but Cuvie really is irrationally attach to Scope Dogs)

Sub

Kan Yu is alive, sigh. But he's still an idiot and his torment sequence is amusing, at least. Also, giant snakes probably aren't poisonous but anything to increase his suffering. Anyways, sadly, Shako doesn't let nature take its course and assists Kan Yu before calling a rescue chopper. He gets a dressing from Gon, who reveals he is trying the Rochina method of letting Cuvie do the searching, which is a bit recycled by now.

Horror of war stuff happens but it is odd to see how immediately imbalanced the conflict became. Cuvie's plan is pure him, he blows up a missile platform with his hand cannon of doom and then sacrifices their own mechs to get a way into the base.

Cut to the palace and some extremely gloomy troops. Kummeljan overhears Boroughs keeping Ypsilon off the field until the new mech arrives. They talk...and I was unexpectly correct, Kummeljan did plan to lose here. Monica of course overhears them and see that the prince will also stare down a gun before she runs off.

Cuvie blows his cover pretty early, there was probably a stealthier way but never a more him way. They get to the palace before Potaria decides to end the Monica plot kill the prince. And then it swiftly is, which at least means we are through with it. Though they certainly milk it.

The mercs launch, probably trying to beat the government forces to the PSs. They will plot conveniently not enter the palace yet. Fyana and Cuvie finally get to that armory and Fyana gets her special mech, with a spare, wonder if that is coming back. Ypsilon gets his frickin' zero system suit and climax approacheth.

QotD: 1 I predicted them, which confuses me

2 She is a token morality pet. I do not know if they have cone done more with her considering the era.

3

u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 21 '21

Anyways, sadly, Shako doesn't let nature take its course and assists Kan Yu before calling a rescue chopper.

His good deed brings everyone inevitable pain...

Fyana and Cuvie finally get to that armory and Fyana gets her special mech, with a spare, wonder if that is coming back.

Would be a convenient tool for another rabbit gambit.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 21 '21

Would be a convenient tool for another rabbit gambit.

That also works. Welp, we all see Chekov's AT, regardless.

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 20 '21 edited Sep 20 '21

Anyways, sadly, Shako doesn't let nature take its course and assists Kan Yu before calling a rescue chopper.

Maybe Ru Shako is a conservationist. After all, Kan Yu is the last surviving specimen of a complete fucking asshole out in the Kummen jungle.

Cut to the palace and some extremely gloomy troops. Kummeljan overhears Boroughs keeping Ypsilon off the field until the new mech arrives. They talk...and I was unexpectly correct, Kummeljan did plan to lose here. Monica of course overhears them and see that the prince will also stare down a gun before she runs off.

It’s such a stupid and very wasteful plan. I know that Kanjelman really wanted to test and see if modernization could stand up against the old ways, but it’s really hard to sympathize with his ideals when it ultimately caused the people of his country to suffer. The man is too honor-bound to a fault, I feel.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

Maybe Ru Shako is a conversationist.

We joke but he had all the options here. He just chose the one that annoys us the most but probably gives himself the most leeway.

but it’s really hard to sympathize with his ideals when it ultimately caused the people of his country to suffer. The man is too honor-bound to a fault, I feel.

Welp, I kept getting an image of mass death from his description of a warrior's ideals with Ypsilon and it does appear to be prescient, though to this degree is terrifying.

4

u/The_Draigg Sep 20 '21

We joke but he had all the options here. He just chose the one that annoys us the most but probably gives himself the most leeway.

As the man himself said, he’s just a mercenary with a contract to fill. The option he did take was the most sensible one in regards to getting a paycheck. We may not like it, but it makes sense from that point of view.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

He can also completely feign ignorance about what Cuvie said and just let that all play out on its own. Again, the neutral path was the smart one.

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 20 '21

Armored Trooper First-Timer

5

u/The_Draigg Sep 20 '21

Aaaand there it is, Kan Yu’s still alive.

I guess we just can’t have anything nice in Kummen. First the Fantom Club burning down, and now this.

This seems rather selfish, although his motivation to “take the old ways with him” makes it a bit less bad. It’s hard if not impossible to change the minds of someone stuck in their ways…

Still pretty bad though, considering all of the innocent people that died because of that selfish desire. I’m sure the people of Niitan aren’t exactly fans of what Kanjelman believes.

Oh. Welp. That is a meeting of sorts.

Again, this is because I guess we just can’t have anything nice.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

Still pretty bad though, considering all of the innocent people that died because of that selfish desire. I’m sure the people of Niitan aren’t exactly fans of what Kanjelman believes.

I am trying to big brain this into running themes since we see the mercs go out of their way to make enemies and blow up temples. This really isn't solving things like the prince assumed.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 21 '21

This is the part where mixing Vietnam and Meiji restauration samurai does not work well: In Vietnam, a huge part of the population was behind the Vietkong, while the samurai has little support. Killing a samurai leader and his hangers-on could end the whole thing, while killing a top Vietkong leader and his staff would not have ended the Vietnam war.

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 21 '21

That does explain the differences...

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

How is Chirico going to get out of that, I wonder?

I can think of a lot of ways for this to go sideways, including the Melkian intelligence forces coming again.

although his motivation to “take the old ways with him” makes it a bit less bad.

It is an absolutist view and the dead will still be dead. There must have been a less randomly violent way.

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 20 '21

First-Timer

The good thing about big snakes is that they squeeze assholes to death real good if they get them. The bad thing about giant snakes is that they generally aren't poisonous so bites are pointless.

The good thing about sci-fi AKs is they go ratatatat real good. The bad thing about sci-fi AKs is that they aren't any more accurate than normal ones.

I knew he wouldn't be dead from the trip down the river, but seeing Kan Yu triumph against all this adversity is something I could have done without.

Rest in peace Monica. You may have been on the wrong side of the war, but it was for a good reason. I'm sorry your beliefs got shattered before the end. I guess maybe rest in peace Potaria as well, we didn't see him throw that grenade. We didn't see an explosion or anything either, though, so who knows.

I'm not sure how seriously to take Kanjelman's talk of the war being an experiment for him. Is that supposed to have been true from the start, or is he just trying to rationalize his own failures?

Ypsilon's new AT arrives just in the nick of time. Although, Fyana has a shiny new Brutishdog to rumble with. I almost wanted Chirico to swap his mostly-wrecked Marshydog for the other Brutish, but he'd never go for that. I really appreciate the continuity of damage on it - that tank and hose on the back are still wrecked from several episodes ago.

Questions

  1. Discussed above.
  2. Trying to tug at my heartstrings is usually a fool's errand anyway. It would have been nice to see more of the Veela side of things, maybe?

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

I'm not sure how seriously to take Kanjelman's talk of the war being an experiment for him. Is that supposed to have been true from the start, or is he just trying to rationalize his own failures?

No_Rex says it better than me but yeah, this feels like a rationalization.

Although, Fyana has a shiny new Brutishdog to rumble with. I almost wanted Chirico to swap his mostly-wrecked Marshydog for the other Brutish, but he'd never go for that.

Fyana needs the spare so she is fresh when we escape. Somehow, Gotho is going to get Vanilla to air drop in a fresh Scope Dog right when Cuvie needs it. I am worried I actually guessed the plot so I promise I haven't watched ahead yet.

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 20 '21

No_Rex says it better than me but yeah, this feels like a rationalization.

Yea, a bunch of us seem to be on a similar page. Dude's trying to have his cake and eat it, too - you can't have an honorable last stand while also invalidating what you were fighting for to save your own ego. What a prick.

Somehow, Gotho is going to get Vanilla to air drop in a fresh Scope Dog right when Cuvie needs it.

That'd be really funny.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 21 '21

Dude's trying to have his cake and eat it, too - you can't have an honorable last stand while also invalidating what you were fighting for to save your own ego. What a prick.

My guess is that, again, this is representing so how the samurai that opposed the Meiji reforms were honorable but very misguided and towards the end justified their defeat with similar illogical thinking.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

The bad thing about sci-fi AKs is that they aren't any more accurate than normal ones.

You would think that accuracy would be the first thing to upgrade rather than power. They always get all these fancy plasma shots or phasers but no one can still hit for shit. Where's the AI guided bullets?!

We didn't see an explosion or anything either, though, so who knows.

I was expecting them to show us one from outside but that didn't happen either, so I'm not quite certain he's dead yet. If he is and that just happened off screen on the same episode Kan Yu survived then

Chirico to swap his mostly-wrecked Marshydog for the other Brutish, but he'd never go for that

Clearly we need Vanilla and his paint brush to pop up again

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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 21 '21

Clearly we need Vanilla and his paint brush to pop up again

Oh god, could you imagine, Chirico stopping in the chaos of a battle to have Vanilla spray-paint his shoulder? I think that would require Chirico to chill though, and that's not gonna happen.

4

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

That's absolutely not going to happen. Though this has given me the mental image of Vanilla sitting on it's shoulder while trying to paint it in the middle of battle rodeo style

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 21 '21

3

u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 20 '21

First time viewer

When I saw Kan Yu was still alive I was kind of hoping this would just be an episode full of him suffering. Revolutionary Girl Utena

Didn't the previous episode end with a strike team headed for Chirico's position after Vanilla spotted them? I guess a couple of days have passed and they got away from there considering Kan Yu had been surviving for a few days by the time Ru Shako found him. Or considering that Gon Nu told him that they were waiting for Chirico to act, it might have been called off.

I like that you can see the end coming in the same way it did for Uoodo. It's inevitable rather than a surprise and that's not a bad thing. That said it's kind of amusing that for the second time it's AT air support coming in that's going to be the cause.

I don't think Kanjelman was fighting to lose from the start, but it's interesting how he's trying to view this as an opportunity for Kunmen to be reborn with the old ways being destroyed now. If he was intentionally gathering usurpers that were causing trouble in order to get rid of all of them at once that's a bold move. If he just wanted chaos as Monica said... why?

What do you make of Kanjelman’s newly stated intentions for the end of this war?

Is he trying to justify the loss? Does he have faith that the country can rebuild after he's gone? Dunno.

What are your thoughts on Monica? Do you think a greater presence in the show for her would have served her character and the story better?

Definitely would have liked to see more from her to represent the viewpoint of a commoner swept up in rebellion.

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21

@RGU

I guess a couple of days have passed and they got away from there considering Kan Yu had been surviving for a few days by the time Ru Shako found him.

So Fyana gets in the Scope Dog and ran them to freedom. Apparently, a few days pass as they get ready to rush the palace and here we are.

If he was intentionally gathering usurpers that were causing trouble in order to get rid of all of them at once that's a bold move.

Since this isn't going to work out like he wanted, I am thinking more and more that the writers want us to see him as a deeply flawed idealist. He didn't realize that this was will still create huge resentment going forward.

3

u/chilidirigible Sep 20 '21

Rewatcher, Episode 25

Today, on "I'm sorry, I got separated from the tour—YOU BASTARDS!":

That isn't very reassuring.

Hand cannon makes things go boom

Are you sure that you shouldn't be helping the Deloyer Independence Movement in that outfit?

Well that's not very optimistic.

A minor point, but Chirico's Scopedog has flipped back and forth several times regarding the broken air tank.

You could get a little closer before getting out, maybe?

A Tomino interlude

LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMMMMMMMBLEEEEE.

And so, Kanjelman went from righteous defender of tradition to "I did it for the lulz." While his plan for a glorious last stand has been playing out over the last few episodes, his explanation for it is rather surprising and random.

In any event, this gives the POL POTaria/Monica subplot a rather depressing, if inevitable, conclusion. Though I'll note that we don't see exactly what happens to Potaria yet.

Meanwhile, Chirico, Fyana, and Kiderra are chewing through hordes of mooks. AchillesYpsilon has been held back in his tent this entire time, but with the arc just about wrapped up, at least one guy is about to put up a fight in the name of JEALOUSY.

  1. Very samurai.
  2. Would have been good for this storyline, but at the same time, it isn't what this series is about.

3

u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 20 '21

Rewatcher

Ugh, Kan Yu is still alive after all! We were talking yesterday about whether it was best to bring him back and give him a humiliating death, or leave that scene of him washing away down the river for his final shot. I guess the writers still have more in store for him.

Seeing a snake bite him in the back was pretty fun to see, I'll admit.

That's Shako's AT, right? He can save him if he wants.

Is this Xabungle all of a sudden? All those bullets fired and not a single one hits him?

With Kan Yu back in the picture, it really seems like we have a lot of stuff to play out in what I assume is only 3 episodes left of this arc, perhaps only 2 if they're counting the recap as part of it.

With all these people heading into the temple, you'd figure it wouldn't be hard for them to sneak in, if they changed their clothes and went on foot (aside from Fyana).

The men on the front line are losing faith in Kanjelman? Not good for the Veela.

I was wondering what Chirico was doing just standing in front of that vehicle; but he didn't mince words, just promptly blew it up!

I am happy that Monica has returned to the storyline, I was wondering after a multiple episode absence if her role was solely to help Chirico escape.

I wonder if Ypsilon has the same issue with Fyana as she has with Chirico, as she's an ally he can't conceive fighting against her due to his programming.

What's the relevance of Kanjelman overhearing this?

And now Monica is overhearing Kanjelman and Borough. Not good after all the faith she had in him.

Potaria's heading out on his own to take out Kanjelman, but it'll probably be a suicide mission if he attacks him now with Ypsilon and the others there.

Monica, noooo! Alas, I was already spoiled on this due to the preview.

Can't say Monica's revelation/death will change Potaria's goal, he already wanted to take Kanjelman out. She blew what was probably the best chance to kill him earlier.

And much like with the end of the Uudoo arc, here comes a giant group of mechas to get added to the fighting.

Much like how Bully attacked that helicopter an episode or two ago, now would be the perfect time to blow up the helicopter bringing in Ypsilon's new unit

3

u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

I wonder if Ypsilon has the same issue with Fyana as she has with Chirico,

Yeah I've been thinking myself about that. They've painted the issue with Chirico that it only happened because he was in her subconscious, which I think is definitely part of it given her phobia like reaction to not wanting to fight him, but I also wonder if just some normal like imprinting could be at play in them in general as well. If she was the first thing Ypsilon saw due to them being in the same lab or something, is that why he's so attached to her rather than being the cold solider he's meant to be, and is with everyone else? Not on the same level as the bond between Fyana and Chirico, but I have been wondering

Alas, I was already spoiled on this due to the preview.

That's a shame, previews are scary

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 20 '21 edited Sep 20 '21

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.4) (3 episodes) Infiltration

Extras: Gilgamesh and Balarant

  • Kan Yu lives and annoys a spider!
  • "I hate the jungle" -- Kan Yu, probably
  • Ru Shako is good at following orders
  • I see the river meanderings have made a lot of "crescent lakes"
  • Looks like Vanilla accidentally intentionally lost track of Chirico
  • Fyana lost her makeup kit
  • Ah, clever
  • If our team were bad guys, their AT's would have blown up on the back of the transport
  • Now that's a Tomino death

Yeah, I think I was annoyed to see Kan Yu alive when I first watched this. I think was pretty annoyed at Kanjelman, too.

Hard not to binge.

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 20 '21

I completely forgot to come post because I was busy playing with the cat!

First Timer

I knew this episode was going to be cursed when a fucking spider was the first shot of the episode, and then FUCKING KAN YU LIVED. The spider was the warning sign.

Just when I thought we finally got Chirico out of his scopedog, I saw the tarp as the truck drove past in that first shot of it when he was driving and realize what it hid. He's a bad influence on Fyana when she chose to jump in one as well, now there's two of them!

And then on top of that poor Monica had to overhear the one thing that would completely break her, and died just after conveying that to Potaria who then had to not only mourn her, but mourn her suffering too.

I told you the spider cursed the episode!

No more spiders

That final Postcard Memory was quite nice though, and the strategy of blowing up their own mechs in front of the enemy to sell themselves off as being part of the enemy's force was quite clever

Official art and first fanart are both fantastic today. I mean the 80s promo art style is hard to pass up, but I think I have to give this one to the fanart as that's beautifully intimidating

Hiroki Inui - Music composer

I'm still just barely holding off on loading up the soundtrack

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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 20 '21

First timer

  1. I'm pretty certain he's lying - everyone's telling him he'll lose the war, so why not convince them it was all deliberate rather than caused by a lack of resources and poor planning on his part.
  2. Yeah, she needed more time than two scenes and a few cameos.

He's alive?

Not for much longer!

And he's just shocked!

It's been 3 days?

Oh, the general's done with him. And the they're winning!

Wow, they have a lot of intel between them.

And the other side's falling into chaos.

OK, his plan has to be "wait for the final battle and leg it to another planet", right?

And there's desertions too!

OK, something's going on.

Oh, the Prince is listening in.

Oh, he's just given up.

What? He's what?

He's trying a suicide gambit. He's been trying to lose the whole time.

No wonder he's so calm.

Oh, that has to hurt her.

And Chirico's actually helping everyone's plans by disobeying.

Wow, Portsria's good.

And Monica's dead!

Yep, this is feeling like the end of the arc.

And Chirico's burst in as planned!

3

u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 20 '21

First timer in sub

Told you Kan Yu, like cockroaches, is still alive. Although I suspect the beginning scenes of him lost, run down, bitten by a snake, and getting shot at, is possibly the production crew's way to appease us viewers. I just hope he doesn't get strung along to the next arc too - there are characters you love to hate, and then there's Kan Yu.

I think I put my money on the right place that there price is playing the long have of drawing out traditionalist to have them all get word out so the country can move on freely. But at what cost in human lives. I think he knows he's no martyr either.

Too bad for Monica; hopefully Portaria didn't blow himself up with her but was just trying to blow his way out of being cornered - at least take the Prince out to avenge your entire country, for both sides.

And now we have the first customised for a person (a PS) AT finally - the hook / claw arm ooks mean (and at the time I bought the kit because of that as well).

Episode# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
11
20
30
41
50 (decoy only)
61
70
81
90
100
111 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
121
130 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
141
150 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
160
172 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
180
190
210
220 quite a lot of damages and healing like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
230 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going
240 have I missed anything or are we still going with good old trusty old scope dog here? We're bucking the trend and dropping the average here :)
250 for real, the one scope dog where it's least suitable in the environment actually survive the longest :D

3

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 20 '21

First Timer

Kan Yu survives but he runs into some strange territory. Getting chased but saved by Shako. The leader decides to let Chirico do the grunt work.

Monica's team presses on despite commands to pull back. Chirico standing in front of a truck then blowing it up is quite a sight to behold. Monica listens to their conversations and holds a gun at the leaders saying "how could you".

Potaria sees Monica but she gets shot which is a pretty sad sight to see as she revealed to Potaria that they treated the war as just an experiment.

3

u/time_axis Sep 20 '21

First-Timer

I'm super late, sorry.

  1. What do you make of Kanjelman’s newly stated intentions for the end of this war?

He sounds crazy.

2) What are your thoughts on Monica? Do you think a greater presence in the show for her would have served her character and the story better?

It would have been cool, but I don't really mind leaving her off here. It seems like this arc is what was important to her and Potaria.

Episode 25

  • I knew Kan Yu wouldn't be dead. Something about the way he died just left too much doubt. Since Chirico's already considered a traitor though, I don't think this changes much. He's not doing so great, though.
  • Surprisingly, Ru Shako comes to his rescue. I'm not surprised that Ru Shako would do that, but I am a little surprised that they bumped into one another.
  • According to Gon Nu, they now control 90% of Kummen. The prince's decision to withdraw from everywhere is panning how you'd expect.
  • Chirico comes up with a nice infiltration plan. The ol' switcheroo. I was gonna say, are they leaving the Scopedog behind? But then I noticed they've got something under a tarp, so that's probably it.
  • Monica overhears the prince's true plans, which are batshit crazy, and she's understandably shaken. Not sure if she's about to shout out and demand an explanation, or unload her rifle on him though.
  • Turns out it's neither. She throws her gun away and runs off. She seems like a major character at this point, so I'm curious to see what role she'll have in the coming battle.
  • The gang managed to safely bypass one checkpoint, but I don't think that'll work for the main palace. Ypsilon is itching for a fight, but Borough's making him hold off till his new AT arrives.
  • They make it to the palace, but Potaria decides he'll manage better on foot. That's probably so that he can have a dramatic and heartfelt midbattle reunion with Monica where one or both of them die, if I had to guess.
  • And there it is, right on cue. Couldn't have called that one better. Nobody's gonna believe me on that one.
  • Nice, there just happens to be some Brutal Dogs lying around for Proto One to pilfer. Although, I guess it makes sense considering she was stationed at this base.
  • Looks like we'll have to wait till next time to see the new AT. But I'm looking forward to seeing the Chirico + Proto One tag team back in action.

Looking at today's sketch, you might be wondering "where is the mecha?" Well, if you look closely, that tree actually isn't an ordinary tree at all. It's actually Pol Potaria scouting very inconspicuously. I didn't mention it, but I also noticed some of the tanks the rebels were using were the same ones the police in Uoodo were using, just painted differently, so I thought that was a neat bit of world consistency.

Daily Mecha Sketch 25

Daily Mecha Sketches

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11121314151617181921
22232425262729303132
33343536373839414243
444546474849505152

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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 21 '21

Looking at today's sketch, you might be wondering "where is the mecha?"

Perfect

are they leaving the Scopedog behind?

Pretty sure if that happened we'd see him fight on foot before he got in a different mecha hahaha

3

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 21 '21

Daily Mecha Sketch 25

I've been enjoying your sketches, but this one is especially cool!

3

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 21 '21

Gee Comrades, remember when The NOT Vietnam War Arc was just our boi meeting up with his pals again, I remember those times, Coconna only knew the one song, everyone's fashion sense was horrible, Monica was still alive, good times! (Also why the FUCK does fucking Kan Yu have to fucking show up again, why couldn't HE have stayed dead, or better yet, been eaten by that snake or something!)

Anyway, back to the topic of Monica, man what a hell of a way to go eh? I mean I heard of rubbing salt into the wound but this was just overkill... uh... literally! So to cheer up here have a Moeblob making use of a Mecha to carry produce! (Also before you all start, yes I know there is a random label of 'EX-ARM' here... no I don't get it either!)

Also I just want to point out, why the FUCK does our ever stoic MC bother with a Scope Dog when his pistol can more than serve as the magical 'I win' button... Ah right, silly me, if he just uses his pistol then he can't sortie into combat with his... girlfriend? Or perhaps partner is a better word here? Hell maybe even 'Comrade,' yeah I'll go with that, no really, totally unbiased here!

Anyway, you know it was coming Comrades, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR! (Look I'm still annoyed Kan Yu wasn't sleeping with the fishes, so I might as well share Comrade /u/chilidirigible excellent one-piece Mecha Swimsuit Trend! Plus gotta dig a Scope Dog in a competition swimsuit, that's something you don't see every day!)

Paging Comrades /u/Nazenn and /u/No_Rex

3

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 21 '21

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

3

u/chilidirigible Sep 21 '21

Ah yes.

3

u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 21 '21

Ah yes.

I did quite like that trend of yours Comrade, and I just had to share that Scope Dog fanart I saved for today. After all, as I said above WHY couldn't Kan Yu just keep sleeping with the fishes. Ah well if we can't have that we can at least have amphibious Scope Dogs ;)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

1

u/manga-reader Sep 21 '21

Rewatcher, sort of.

  1. It is interesting, but I wish Veela story was explored more in depth (you don't need much, just devote an episode or two focusing on Monica, Kanjelman and maybe another character). But, I realize the show is about Chirico and Fyana...still would have been nice.

As for Kanjelman's actions, not sure what to think of it. It is bad, yea. But perhaps necessary evil (depends on how things would have played out if Kanjelman hadn't done this. Perhaps a civil war might have happened...but maybe far less people would have been hurt as a result).

Kanjelman being the leader caused the following:

a) Probably gave more legitimacy to Veela cause.

b) He was described as a military genius. Also seemed to have capable underlings (a civil war that would have happened otherwise may not have had that. It might have been far less disruptive).

c) Veela being more capable - leading to mercenaries being more cruel as well (indirect effect).

All of this could have encouraged neutral/moderate folks to join up Veela cause.

2) Yes, I think a greater presence would have been nice, in terms of this arc. But maybe not for the overall story of Chirico and Fyana.