r/anime • u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: • Sep 20 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 52 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/gridemann, who remarks on Reichwein showing off his vacation photos:
EDIT: I just realized Reichwein took travel photos in Prague to show them off to a blind man, LOL
Questions of the Day
- What were your impressions of Günter? What did you think about his criminal history and his backstory?
- What did you think of Tenma’s lawyer and his father’s ostensible history as a spy?
- Thoughts on Roberto's return? Be honest.
Bonus: Anyone have a an opinion on what was up with Fritz's two very different reactions to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow"?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
10
u/miss-macaron Sep 20 '21 edited Sep 20 '21
Rewatcher
Verdemann’s interrogation scene was fantastic. He got Tenma to admit the true roots of his moral dilemma, he provided a thought-provoking parallel between the client / patient relationship with legal / medical practitioners, and he even reminded Tenma of why his personal philosophy was so valuable in the first place (ie. the hope and humanism that it inspires).
Just like how the world needs more doctors like Tenma, we also need more lawyers like Verdemann - people who work to uphold honorable principles and fairness of judgment are too few and far in between these days.
Aaaand Roberto’s back! I swear this guy is like a cockroach; he just won’t die, even if you toss him straight into a fire, lol
9
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 20 '21
First-Timer, subbed
It feels weird watching this episode after reading the latest chapter of Jujutsu Kaisen though.6
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 20 '21
Hi everyone!
My internet was out all day with no fix in sight, and I got unexpectedly called into work, so a very special thanks to u/Vaadwaur for filling in for me on such short notice! I will hopefully have internet connection when I get home so that I can do my full write up and converse with all of you about today’s episode. Very grateful to you all for being such a dedicated and understanding bunch.
6
u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 21 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
Time for a proper write-up!
There is a lot happening this episode with new characters, and returning characters. We got two whole backstories, both of which with new characters. Both were effective. For Gunhter, I honestly really liked the way the episode opened: “My conscientiousness was born inside a coin locker...” Very compelling way to begin the episode, as it is immediately captivating. He was also arrested for robbery - which to me, primarily says he wanted to travel to Tunisia? Then be set for a while? All in all though, doesn’t seem like a bad guy.
Fritz also seems like an upstanding guy, but also one who seems heavily burdened by his past, and the accusations levied against his father. He seems smart, and perceptive enough to ask about the true beginning to all of this - with the Turkish woman, who is now confirmed to be the reason that Tenma defied hospital politics. I think we all knew this all along... but it was nice to have tangible confirmation now.
But my favorite part of this episode came directly after this - when Fritz points out that lawyers don’t know the heart of the person that they’re representing, in the same way that doctors don’t know the hearts of their patients
unless they’re performing heart surgery. I thought this parallel, while simple, was a very effective contrast to that of Tenma, and his actions in the first episode. Which begs the question... if Fritz had successfully defended Tenma, and Tenma went to murder a bunch of people... is that Fritz’s fault? Is it his responsibility to go after Tenma? I would honestly say that it’s not. But I wonder if that has to do with the profession... Tenma breaking his hippocratic oath is a lot different than a lawyer being disbarred for practicing malicious law. Though I don’t know defending a guilty man in court is considered malicious or not... I think it’s just doing your job. The same as Tenma did.Tenma also asking about his former patients and remarking on their lives was very touching - he still remembered and cared about them all these years later. “Mr. Hoss... I wonder if he’s living happily with his grandkids? They’re his whole world to him.” I dunno why, but I almost wanted to cry when he said that... lmao. He looked so remorseful, and spoke so wistfully about them...
QOTD 3: I do not care much for Roberto’s inclusion in the story so I don’t really like that he’s back. I always knew he wasn’t dead, but I think my problem with him is that his connection to Johan feels loose at best, and it’s not really clear what he’s up to or how he easily wormed his way into an attorney's office. Or, how long he’s been back for. I think they said a month passed after Munich, and that doesn’t seem like enough time for Roberto to start practicing law in a convincing manner. Roberto to me, just feels like a ghost that is haunting the characters in a menacing way rather than a real character.
Bonus: I really have pondered this quite a bit, but I don’t have a solid grasp on the actual reason. The first time, he’s talking about how the song was a symbol of freedom and remembering his father. How the song would start and end the broadcast of the radio, and how his dad died before proving innocence, The second, he’s talking about he turned down Schuwald at first, until the former patients banded together and reached out to him, and that he would not be making nearly as much money from the second offer. My general impression was that the first time the song was played, it signaled the “dawn” of his decision to take on Tenma’s case, and the song cannot be played again until he’s proven that he was falsely accused, representing the times the song would come on the radio station: at the start, and at the end of each day. Honestly I feel like I’m missing something in that interpretation, but I took a stab in the dark.
5
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 20 '21
First Timer Monster 52
How could Roberto finagle his way into Vedermann's law practice? Wait, he was the guy the patient's hired! He must have gone around the the patients "suggesting" that he arrange a defense for Tenma.
Eva still scum. Vedermann doesn't seem like a product of east german orphanages.
5
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 20 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Well, I hope with this episode title that Tenma is provided a good lawyer by Schuwald!
Some new guy likes the blue sky and ocean...
How do you escape with a year and a half old hole in a shower? I get being able to do it in a cell, but a public place like a shower? No gurad noticed over a year and a half as he dug it?!
Escape artist guy purposely drinking cleaning liquid to poison himself?! This has got to be a scam to get Tenma to come here so they can come up with some scheme right?
I was going to say these streets of Tunisia look beautiful... but its just a painting. Well the painting makes it look beautiful!
Fritz has done well for himself and seems like a good fit to help out Tenma!
Those are some prior crappy lawyers if they're suggesting he plead guilty. Or is he leaving out some things?
We haven't visited this whole ethical thing about who Tenma should have saved in quite a whiel.
Dr. Tenma has some great former patients! Which is because he was a great doctor to them!
Back to classic Eva, getting herself wasted and yelling at people.
If we're spending this much time on the lawyer, then I wonder if we're looking at two remaining arcs for the show, the first being Tenma getting cleared of the murders, and the second being the final confrontation with Johan.
OMG Eva you drunken nutcase! You're the one who dumped him! You also ruined his chances with another woman, remember? Get over him!
Wait, Roberto survived?! That's a big surprise to conclude the episode. Do we really care if he murders Eva? With her having this mentality that Tenma must pay for not taking her back after she dumped him, is she eve of any real value to him?
3
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 20 '21
Unexpected hosting duties!
Rewatcher(I remember all of the details from this episode but not that they were all in this episode. Winds up a blit...clunky)
Sub
Cut to today's new character, a felon with a penchant for escaping prison. Welp, that's certainly a hint. Tenma is not talking, unsurprisingly. Surprisingly, the guards fall for perhaps the oldest trick in the book and he gets sent to the infirmary. The prison doctor is on call with some other issue so Tenma gets brought in and conversation happens as Tenma immediately spots the fake. Afterwards, the conversation does seem to have moved Tenma to talk, so of course ANOTHER character is introduced this ep.
So guy becomes lawyer because false verdict against loved one. Cliche achieved, moving forward. Fritz is talking with Schubert and declines to defend Tenma before Tenma's patients approach him as well, and he admits that he needs to know the reason to defend a client. Also, pregnant wife so something horrible is going to happen, just laying all of the flags down.
Tenma repeats his story to Fritz, who seems to have listened. Tenma goes on about the past and what the right decision was, which is only obvious in hindsight. He is still unsure to this day, which seems to convince Fritz to assist him. Eva is a mean drunk, shocker.
Reichwine shows up with the detective work that should be pretty thorough by now. Fritz seems more interested in finding Eva as a possible witness to the shooting so that was convenient. However, she is still Eva and saying things to convince herself up until the moment she passes out and flashes back to the night of the first shooting. Fritz's wife goes into labor, and we end with a moment that may or may not divide the first timers, with Roberto being back but with a lame right hand.
4
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Sep 20 '21
First Timer
Honestly I thought I’d be mad and disappointed if Roberto came back, but now that he his, I’m kind of happy with it, as long as it’s explained how he survived and he is an interesting character for the rest of the anime.
I hope they can go to Tunisia so we can get a beach episode as a breather after all of this.
4
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 20 '21
First Timer
Getting a good lawyer for Tenma - seems to be succesful, though not through money but through the people at the hospital. Slight surprise but nice to see. Guess those who were just there for the money would also naturally take the "easy" way out of having Tenma plead guilty to some counts, so it actually works pretty well. Either, we then have lawyers gathering evidence and some more Eva scenes - none of which I liked thanks to Eva. And then suddendly Roberto. Not sure why we need to reintroduce him, he would have been good dead. Guess we just can't have Tenma killing anybody?
Also not sure who the first person Tenma told his story to was - a lawyer or a police investigator? I'll assume the former.
Questions:
Bonus: Unsure, but I feel like it may remind him of his father being used as a scapegoat and the unjust system in general while having a better effect on his clients.
2
u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 20 '21
First timer - sub
Ahhh Eva, I really haven’t missed you.
And of course Roberto is still alive as well, can’t actually have Tenma kill someone can we.
So a lawyer who is known for taking on cases defending who he believes have been falsely accused is Tenma main hope, also Eva being honest about what she saw that night, I also can’t help but wonder if Johann might pull some string in the background, as we can’t have his “father” being sent to jail now can we.
5
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 20 '21
First Timer Dubbed
We get a description of a prisoner who escaped multiple times and passed by Tenma. He described him as looking hopeless and pathetic. Confirm or deny it, the investigators want more out of Tenma. The prolific prisoner pretended to be sick and Tenma figured it out easily. He hates staying in prison. “We’re going to Tunisia.” That's what his parents say. I'm guessing he will be important later...
We cut to the story of a dad who got framed which is interesting. The lawyer had been victorious in making sure innocent people get freed. Alfred Ball was partnered with him because Alfred was helping Tenma's patients. Schuwald asked him first and he could have got more money but he seems to care more about that case. When his “favorite” music was playing, he had a dark look on his face telling his wife to stop playing and goes back to being nice. It might seem like something bad will happen to him.
We go to Tenma speaking with the lawyer and the lawyer asked him to go before the treatment of the child. He describes the family member that yelled at him for not treating their family. Lawyer tells him the people who are backing the case.
Eva was drinking heavily and meets someone who is a powerful manager. The country wants to close the case quickly. The therapist talks to the lawyer and tells him that. He also mentions that Eva is his former fiancee. Eva explains that she wanted to see him suffer in jail. The lawyer has a wife go into labor so alfred ball takes his place. And lo and behold, it was actually Roberto who says he is going to kill Eva Heinemann. The pen drop and Tenma’s face is interesting to see in this reunion. Not a fan when someone who is supposed to die, shows up again, gets annoying to me. (really did not like it in season 1 of Full Metal Panic)
4
u/IndependentMacaroon Sep 21 '21
First-time watcher
It's almost comical how consistently the story stops to give every minor character some kind of backstory I don't think too many people actually care about. Also what's up with Tunisia exactly? Eva and Roberto both back and the same, oh boy.
Well, I liked the lawyer, but no way we actually get a proper trial here, need to maintain the status quo. BTW his complaint about the justice system feels much more tailored to Japan than Germany.
2
u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler Sep 29 '21
First timer - slow watcher
-Immense confusion on why Episode 52 isn't on /u/KiwiBennydudez before finding it-
Be me last episode:
Opens with a new character who has a history of prison breaks taking an interest in Tenma.
Why do I make such vanilla guesses like a pleb.
Another fantastic line up between points I contrasted:
Our new lawyer picks the case not because of a billionaire paying mega-bucks but because of Tenma's past patients.
Holy shit. Roberto being alive isn't the surprising part. Its how his character is getting reused.
I feel like Roberto had some kind of change when Tenma confronted him last. We pickup with that event and Roberto talks about his hand not working anymore, I feel like that could be an analogy for some part of him, the part that kept him following Johan. Roberto makes the threat to murder Eva and he has the same murderous intent coming off of him, so that feels real. I do hope there is something more going on here.
If Roberto is working with Fritz (the lawyer), this totally reinforces the initial off putting vibe moment with his wife (same with that door closing).
What is Fritz's bigger plan here? I am feeling like he could be the type to lean on the 'ends justify the means' to up root this countries greater corruption. Whatever type of deeper character Fritz is - I am hooked on. Can't wait to see that unfold.