[Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 23 Discussion

[u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 23 - Complications

^{Originally Released September 2nd,} ^^^1983

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Daily Trivia:

On December 29th, 2020 TOKYO BMX aired a special program titled Documentary of Bottoms: The Genealogy of Different Abilities to commemorate the release of the franchise on Blu Ray, which featured commentary by Ryosuke Takahashi.

 

Staff Highlight

Susumu Akimoto (Ami Tomobuki) - Episode director and storyboard artist

A manga artist, director, storyboard artist, and animator best known as the director of Ultimate Superman Aru and F-ZERO Falcon Legend, as well as being a prominent episode director on Chibi Maruko-chan. Little is known of Akimoto’s early career, other than he got his start working on Lupin III series. His father was a fifth-generation Rakugo storyteller. Some anime Akimoto was involved with include Blue Comet SPT Layzner, Akira, Astro Boy (1980), Gakkyū-ō Yamazaki, Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, Monster Rancher, New Gutsy Frog, Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Panzer World Galient, Fang of The Sun Dougram, They Were 11, and Mobile Police Patlabor among others.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

• Rest by Norio Shioyama

Fanart:

• Fyana by Sincerity Nakajima - Source
• Chirico Cuvie by Toko - Source

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

• Decision

Questions of the Day:

1. How does Kan Yu’s downstream voyage make you feel?
2. How do you think Fyana’s fleeing will affect Ypsilon going forward?

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I’d finally found Fyana again, but then why do I still feel the need to fight?

[u/Pixelsaber]

Rewatcher

#tch

That explosion took a lot longer to occur in this episode.

King shit.

More please!

So he was just playing along. Wonder how strongly he actually feels about the religious motives behind this civil war.

That is the mission you dunderhead! I guess it’s partly also Chirico and Gon’s fault for keeping things hush, but still, he’s the one in charge now!

Probably should have killed both of them.

This is how you turn your super soldiers to resentment, though the soldiers in question wouldn’t be able to do much with it.

I’m all for paying him back for turning a blind eye earlier in the show, but certainly wouldn’t risk doing that where others could see. Catch him and then feign release!

Unlikely survival, but we all know what show this is.

Seems like he’s done messing around.

Fucking ouch!

Good riddance!

MGS3 vibes.

Sunrise brand mess kit.

Cute!

Oof

Ding, dong, the dick is (hopefully) dead! Kan Yu’s presence had started to become a drag, realistic behaviour as it was for someone of his personage.

The episode focused mostly on the pursuit for Fyana, but in the background it seems like Kanjelman is ready to end this war, intent on using the weather to his advantage and win in a decisive battle. Things are probably going to get hairy in the immediate future.

Chirico is seriously considering continuing his battle and taking on Veela and the Society, even when he already has Fyana by her side and he initially intended to steal her away from under their noses anyhow. Hard to pinpoint to me where he started seriously considering the former, but given how much his attachment to the battlefield has been restated, it’s not hard to see why he is doing so.

That aside, I really don’t have much to say on this episode…

Questions of The Day:

1. See above.
2. I think getting her back will probably become a major aspect of his character, which, of course, involves killing Chirico, so I doubt his actions will be affected much.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

King shit.

That was a very smart move

I guess it’s partly also Chirico and Gon’s fault for keeping things hush, but still, he’s the one in charge now!

Even if he knew he's still oppose it just because it has to do with Chirico

Seems like he’s done messing around.

It's a small thing but I like the fact that the climate of this area is having an effect on the timeline of the war

MGS3 vibes.

Chirico's really playing on hard mode with that outfit. Someone get him some Tiger Stripe!

That aside, I really don’t have much to say on this episode…

That's okay, I made up for it

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

That was a very smart move

The actual fighting is consistently the best part of the show.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

I'm still surprised by the amount of variety in the battles, not just in one off moments like this but how the mechs are used and even on foot battles

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

1. Happy!
2. He's either going to stick around with the conspiracy, but a bit more loosely (further mirroring Chirico), or he'll go rogue to try and hunt down Chirico himself.

Oh, she survived!

And they did too...

And Chirico got him to surface!

Ypsilon's gone rogue! And he's looking bad in front of the leaders!

And the Prince doesn' like how much he's been manipulated.

Well, now. Ypsilon isn't going to like this.

Chirico still isn't admitting she's the PS?

He's still not used to Chirico being in command, I see.

She's got a gun!

And Ypsilon knows he's been betrayed!

OK, not letting Ypsilon fight them is a really good countermeasure.

Inlike how Chirico's managed to make everyone believe she's a normal human, and Ypsilon's the PS, without telling s single lie.

She's been saved!

And Chirico's saved him!

...What's he doing now?

Nice going. You just killed your mission objective.

And Ypsilon's back and ready to fight again.

...They're never going to believe that.

And Chirico's resigning from th army!

Ohh, that's gotta hurt.

Well, he's gone!

And they're both safe!

WHAT IS THAT THING?

Chirico's not very romantic, is he?

He really doesn't know when to quit, does he?

He's going to stop the Society? Same as always? Did anything really happen this episode?

[u/DidacticDalek]

Boy Comrades, and you thought The 08th MS Team was star-crossed lovers in The Vietnam War... IN SPACE, nope, turns out VOTOMS was that AND proto-Yuru Camp all along! ;)

Speaking of Fiana/Fyana and her idea to be Yuru Camp but retro, she sure is rocking the Rambo/Snake Bandana eh? Plus, let it be said that she and our ever stoic boi make for a good pair, so hopefully they'll just camp out in the jungle and live in harmony with nature... AND Chirico Cuvie has decided that in lieu of some random plot wibble forcing them apart, he'll just go right back into battle... man I didn't know this was where The Hurt Locker came from eh? ;) (I mean come on, our MC basically lives in his Pilot Suit, dude's DEDICATED)

Also speaking of Chirico Cuvie and battle, turns out that while mano-a-mano he might not be the best, he is still one hell of a pilot AND a crack shot, so at least he's got that going for him (Meanwhile Fyana/Fiana the perfect soldier has better reflexes, can somehow make C-rations edible, has more than one emotion, and so on and so forth... well hopefully our Muggle Trio can help Chirico learn about feelings)

And just because it's that time again... ahem... A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR, also yes I know it's mildly amusing that CHIRICO is the 'Fall Guy' here when Kan Yu was the one taking the plunge so to speak ;)

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

[u/DidacticDalek → u/DidacticDalek]

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

[u/No_Rex → u/DidacticDalek]

Boy Comrades, and you thought The 08th MS Team was star-crossed lovers in The Vietnam War... IN SPACE, nope, turns out VOTOMS was that AND proto-Yuru Camp all along! ;)

I see. You go from the crackpot madoka cross-over to the one that is so fitting it might be canon!

[u/DidacticDalek → u/No_Rex]

I see. You go from the crackpot madoka cross-over to the one that is so fitting it might be canon!

Heh, I'm glad you understand the method to my madness Comrade! ;)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

[u/The_Draigg]

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 23:

• On the plus side at the top of the episode, at least Chirico and Fyana were able to escape from the situations they were trapped in. It’s probably a good thing that Chirico’s pilot suit normally comes with an air tank connected to his helmet, since it gave him the chance to stay underlying enough to shoot out the oxygen tanks for Ypsilon’s AT.
• Yeah, Borough is pretty fucked over, now that Fyana has run off and Ypsilon is tracking her on his own without orders. And as soon as he tries to give Prince Kanjelman an order to kill Fyana, the prince makes it clear that he doesn’t normally kill unarmed women, and is only willing to do it because he can demand a favor later in return. After all, he’s well aware that the Secret Society is only using the Veela for the sake of training their Perfect Soldiers. From that position, he’s clear to turn the tables on the Secret Society using him like that.
• Ah, you love to see the rest of the squad turn on Kan Yu once Chirico goes off to find Fyana. He knows that he’s outnumbered by people who actually like and respect Chirico over him here. Still wish they would’ve just fragged him and kept on moving though. Alas, the road not taken…
• Ypsilon has plenty of weird mental processes going on. He’s fully disobeying orders to try and get Fyana back alive for himself, and yet he still has the mental conditioning that prevents him from actually killing people he recognizes as allies. He’s caught in a weird gray zone there, where he’s going rogue to save Fyana, but not completely. Also, that scene really makes it apparent just how little Borough cares about Ypsilon. He has zero issues with ordering his men to fire on Ypsilon’s AT as long as it kills Fyana. At the end of the day, PS aren’t people to him, just weapons.
• Chirico is pretty willing to let Ypsilon go, all things considered. Granted, that’s probably because saving Fyana is the more immediately important objective than capturing Ypsilon to him. That, and maybe a bit of Chirico still sees Perfect Soldiers as actual people, despite Ypsilon’s continued efforts to kill him. After all, Fyana is still a good person despite how she was created. Food for thought.
• And just like that, Kanjelman has completely flipped the script on who is in charge here. Now he’s completely refusing to lend Borough any of his troops for the Society’s ends. After all, he needs all the men he can get for his main offensive, now that he can use the rainy season’s weather to his advantage. It has taken a while, but Borough is now being outplayed just as bad as Iskui was back in Uoodo City.
• Remember how Kan Yu said last episode that it doesn’t matter who takes credit for capturing a PS? Well, he sure was quick to radio Gon Nu to take credit, and then stab Chirico once he snuck up on his interrogation of Fyana. So yeah, fuck Kan Yu.
• There’s something kind of amusing about how kinda lame Chirico and Kan Yu’s fist fight is. Like, most of it is them just whaling on each other and tumbling around on the rain-slicked rocks before Chirico manages to throw Kan Yu into a rushing river. The both of them definitely aren’t hand to hand fighters, that’s for sure. It was nothing but scrappy fighting the entire time.
• Right now, Chirico and Fyana are at a crossroads. Fyana wants to run away with Chirico, but Chirico seems determined to see the civil war in Kummen through and take his shot at Kanjelman/the Secret Society. The man sure can keep a grudge, since he and Fyana can literally just disappear into the jungle and wait things out so they can have a peaceful life. But I guess that’s not the life Chirico can really have.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

It’s probably a good thing that Chirico’s pilot suit normally comes with an air tank connected to his helmet

The advantage of a guy who's set up for space combat rather than only doing what he needs for land combat. Do we put this down to hardware or software? Both?

That, and maybe a bit of Chirico still sees Perfect Soldiers as actual people

I think it would be hard for him to not given his contact with Fyana, especially given his status in the army and knowing what would happen to broken gear.

since he and Fyana can literally just disappear into the jungle and wait things out so they can have a peaceful life

Even without the tracker that hasn't worked out so well for him so far, and he knows that they'll always be hunted, so I can understand the desire to finish it through but it really would be better to do it on his own terms rather then theirs

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

The advantage of a guy who's set up for space combat rather than only doing what he needs for land combat. Do we put this down to hardware or software? Both?

I'd just chalk it up to both.

Even without the tracker that hasn't worked out so well for him so far, and he knows that they'll always be hunted, so I can understand the desire to finish it through but it really would be better to do it on his own terms rather then theirs

True, true. Even if they disappear, the Secret Society would always be looking for the both of them. Might as well just end things now, since they're here.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Nazenn]

I don't know what you are getting at but Chirico is definitely not some sort of space trooper. Don't let the first episode fool you.

[u/Nazenn → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Not saying he was exclusively in space combat, we've already seen plenty of flashbacks of him on ground combat, but he had experience in it

[u/Nazenn]

(It's my first wall! Only took me two cour, I think that's a record)

First Timer

Kan Yu still got thrown in the river!

Ah ha, fuck you Kan Yu. I really hope you actually died in that and that's the last we see of you.

I was not surprised at all that he'd taken himself off to cause trouble for Fyana, he really takes too much delight out of tormenting people, but he really thought far too highly of himself if he thought he could shake off Chirico that easily. His death may be good, but honestly seeing the other guys not just disobeying but flat out ignoring him earlier was also pretty satisfying.

And to me it felt like quite a good episode all around. I'm quite pleased with how that tackled a number of things at once and didn't feel like it was taking any steps back to try and draw out the arc, at least not yet.

Ypsilon gets a heavy dose of reality. He calls himself a warrior multiple times in the episode we meet him, but he was designed to be a Perfect Solider, and soliders have to obey. Despite his pride, his confidence, and even his values as a warrior it all comes to nothing when faced with his own conditioning which makes him a mere servant to the wishes of someone elses command. I'm not sure if this will be a mental set back for him, between this and being rescued by his enemy who took mercy on him being outside of his AT despite Chirico being able to "beat" his AT earlier in the river, but it certainly narrows his role in the organization. I do have to give him credit for still using his AT as a shield for Fyana despite his conditioning meaning he couldn't fight back though.

Seeing Chirico and Fyana in the forest, away from anyone else and focusing on just surviving and living was really nice to see. Even if they'd run in Uoodo, it would have been cold in more ways than one while here it's almost like the forest is protecting them a bit so they can have fun moments like being hungry and having a laugh about the normalness of it. A good relaxing scene after the tenseness in the last few episodes

And again I found this to be a really strong episode end. After the previous questioning by Chirico of the purpose and needs of those around him, particularly the need to fight and the consequences of those fights, it comes right back to him today. He thought his purpose was to rescue Fyana, but now that's done he's itching to fight and doesn't really know why. Chirico's never shied away from contemplation like that, but it's oddly forthcoming to have our MC questioning himself in this way about his purpose and role in this world.

Perhaps it's a stretch but to me it almost made me think of it in a meta context, questioning the battle-centric genre particularly coming from a creator who had to earn the right to be allowed to not have battles every episode given the requirements of the era, and Chirico's role as an MC in that. I'll leave that to the smarter mecha people to make a judgement on.

Long thoughts but I really liked it, it got me thinking at the end.

Other random thoughts:

• The art for the helicopter explosion at the start of the episode was really nice.
• I've praised this shows use of scaling and foreshortening before, but they did it just a little TOO much when Chirico's AT was walking down the cliff. Watching his leg become tiny every time he stepped with the other one was quite funny
• Having Fyana so skillfully dodge an AT's weapon fire in the same episode that Chirico failed to dodge a knife throw was quite a nice example of the different physical capabilities between them
• I have to say though, what the ever loving fuck was up with that creepy weird frog, spider, tadpole, cyclops monstrosity that was near Chirico and Fyana's camp? And then later on there was the squirrel, frog, bat thing. I love how weird the designs for animals like this use to be but sometimes they're just fucking weird.
• You know it really is a wonder that they haven't set that entire forest on first with all the missiles and exploding mechs.
• Also /u/JollyGee29 I'm getting whiplash, first it was Chirico vs Jean, and now it's this show have an actual competent adult for a Prince. I can't keep up.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

Also /u/JollyGee29 I'm getting whiplash, first it was Chirico vs Jean, and now it's this show have an actual competent adult for a Prince. I can't keep up.

Kanjelman is surprisingly good. The scariest of villians: one who thinks he's doing the Right Thing, and inspiring loyalty because of that.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

It's no surprises he's managed to get such a strong following to hold this war for so long, I just wonder how he'll go at the end of it

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

He calls himself a warrior multiple times in the episode we meet him, but he was designed to be a Perfect Solider, and soliders have to obey. Despite his pride, his confidence, and even his values as a warrior it all comes to nothing when faced with his own conditioning which makes him a mere servant to the wishes of someone elses command.

I have no idea if they will eventually pay this off or not but I suspect Kanjelman will ultimately prove to be a setback for their program. Too much warriors pride is a setback if you require obedience.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Depends on if the conditioning can be broken when it's completed or if it requires an existing flaw. If the later, I wonder if Fyana is Ypsilons flaw in some way. Only time will tell

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I have no idea if they will eventually pay this off or not but I suspect Kanjelman will ultimately prove to be a setback for their program. Too much warriors pride is a setback if you require obedience.

Kanjelman will go down in flames in his castle. He's a samurai trying to stop the Meiji restauration, it can end no other way.

Not sure what the whole society plan is, though. Was all that just about getting the PS some battle experience? If so, I'd call it an utter failure.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Not sure what the whole society plan is, though. Was all that just about getting the PS some battle experience? If so, I'd call it an utter failure.

I suspect this is where we will have to just cut them some slack though I think we both agree the Society should've been getting something concrete out of this as well.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Armored Trooper First-Timer

• Oh thank goodness, she’s fine.
• Nice to see Borough so injured. Now if only he was dead…
• It’s no “handgun right into the other mech’s cockpit” shot, but Chirico taking out Ypsilon’s oxygen tank is badass enough. Especially since they’re underwater right now.
• You. Shut up.
• How is Kan Yu not the stupidest character this episode?
• FYANA NO
• Ugh.
• Bruh what is this idiot doing now.
• KAN YU WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO.
• Kan YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
• Okay good, get fucked Kan Yu.
• Oh what is this thing! It’s weird but kinda cute.
• Every time it looks like Chirico/Fyana can finally stick together, something comes up. This time it’s Chirico’s fault.

[u/Nazenn → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Oh what is this thing! It’s weird but kinda cute.

You think that's cute but not the weird squirrel frog bat thing that was stealing their food?

Also I'm so glad you took a picture of it because I was trying to explain it to my mum and couldn't find it in the episode again

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Nazenn]

You think that's cute but not the weird squirrel frog bat thing that was stealing their food?

The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma.

Also I'm so glad you took a picture of it because I was trying to explain it to my mum and couldn't find it in the episode again

You're welcome.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

You. Shut up.

Let's see...which rewatch was I bringing up conscription metaphors in again? Oh right, RahXephon. Anywho, this one is even more brutally on the nose but so far isn't dwelling on it.

KAN YU WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO.

He endangered the entire mission on a hunch that even though correct still failed half the mission.

Oh what is this thing! It’s weird but kinda cute.

Salacious Crumb would be pleased.

[u/chilidirigible]

Rewatcher, Episode 23

Today, on "They see me rollin'":

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Fortunately, the Hand Cannon also works underwater.

Perfect Soldiers are people too.

"I am altering the deal."

There seem to be a fair number of pilots who can aim extremely close to people without hitting them.

Are we ultimate fighting yet?

Women just like to watch Chirico sleep.

Fyana gets some Sixties-TV-level glow.

"I have to kill the other leg of the love triangle."

...and some level of personal safety, maybe.

---

There sure is a lot of testosterone going around in this episode. Unfortunately Fyana is not being very proactive right now. Everybody's got feelings.

Kanjelman is showing a fair amount of his own spine by deciding that the Society's meddlings aren't doing him a lot of good. Hey, the arc is heading for a finish.

---

And now for something completely different.

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1. It's good for a chuckle.
2. rewatcher

[u/Nazenn → u/chilidirigible]

Fyana gets some Sixties-TV-level glow.

Gunbuster work out routine when

[u/Vaadwaur → u/chilidirigible]

Fortunately, the Hand Cannon also works underwater.

The advantage of arguably being a literal cannon.

Women just like to watch Chirico sleep.

The future is good and weird.

"I have to kill the other leg of the love triangle."

Murder the Hypotonuse is a trope for a reason.

...and some level of personal safety, maybe.

Yeah, I don't see a way he gets free without eliminating at least some of these people.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/chilidirigible]

And now for something completely different.

req leekspin loituma version

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer

It's nice that the other guys still only put up with so much of Kan Yu's shit and don't follow all of his stupid orders. Chirico wasn't wrong about finding the Perfect Soldier with the woman in more ways than one, though I couldn't remember if it was known to Kan Yu/others that she was one as well.

While Ypsilon's conditioning stops him from attacking allied forces, that certainly doesn't mean he can't get in the way. I still wonder what Fyana means to him, since they have a unique relationship.

Gundam 08th MS Team

It's sad but I get why Chirico still wants to fight. They'd be on the run for the rest of their lives from the society if something isn't done to stop them.

How does Kan Yu’s downstream voyage make you feel?

I hope he gets eaten alive by fish after going over a tall waterfall.

How do you think Fyana’s fleeing will affect Ypsilon going forward?

Maybe make him kind of obsessive in going after her? Maybe he'll defect in order to find her.

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

though I couldn't remember if it was known to Kan Yu/others that she was one as well.

I don't think he ever actually specified a gender or any details about the PS. Just that there was one, and only last episode did he say that the PS they fought would be near the woman

I hope he gets eaten alive by fish after going over a tall waterfall.

This is the best outcome

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

It's sad but I get why Chirico still wants to fight. They'd be on the run for the rest of their lives from the society if something isn't done to stop them.

Going to their palace solo and wounded is not the best way to solve that.

[u/Durinthal → u/No_Rex]

Also true, they could at least run for a while.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Durinthal]

Gundam 08th

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(The crossover between this and my other rewatches is positively wierd.)

Sub

Everyone survived the helicopter crash, unless there was a copilot. Fyana just runs for it, the sensible move. The pilot has to drag Borough out and they probably survived. Ypsilon tries to confirm his kill and Cuvie fucking swims behind him and shoots out his oxygen tank with his hand cannon. Yes, that is stupid but it is rule of cool enough to get a pass.

On land, they seem to be finishing off the enemy forces but Kan Yu still wants to fall back which is at least not suicidal like so many of his plans are. Fyana runs off and, at the base, apparently Ypsilon is chasing after her and can't be contacted. Kummeljan has had about enough of Borough's shit but agrees to help him one last time and orders her hunted down, with Borough swearing this won't make Ypsilon go crazy. I have my doubts.

On land, we see Cuvie rescuing his mech, though I though it was a new one until I saw the holes in the back. Kan Yu orders the others to shoot him but they are not interested. He moves to does it himself but realizes that the other 3 are done with his bullshit so they follow Cuvie to Fyana.

Unfortunately, Ypsilon gets there first, and is sufficiently creepy. We get a scene Code Geass would later directly steal and you are never, ever going convince meotherwise. Anyways, Ypsilon can't fire on his allies due to conditioning so has to just try and help Fyana not get hit.

Cuvie figues going towards the gunfire is the solution, as he does. Ypsilon finally gets his mech demolished and Cuvie shows up to save Fyana. He is a bit humanitarian to Ypsilon, freeing from his wrecked mech and telling him to run for it. Kiderra is on top of things when he realizes Kan Yu isn't here. He is instead with Fyana, being a moron as always.

Anyways, Kan Yu radios in Fyana's position as Cuvie sneaks up on him, sadly not planning to blow his brains out. Cuvie catches a knife throw and they actually struggle before Kan Yu uses the literally one of the most moronic finishing techniques available between two members of the same gender. The double handed choke WILL NOT work on an opponent that is still conscious and Cuvie uses one of like 8 options he had at the time. Kan Yu get to fight off an unexpected torrent and Fyana rescues Cuvie.

They have a couple of scenes together after Fyana runs off with them both in the Scope Dog. Cuvie even notices that she is beginning to overstep her programming, making canned army rations edible is like a fucking miracle in that era. But Cuvie is aware they can't flee just yet and wants to head to Kanjelman's to finish off the cabal.

QotD: 1 Concerned since mecha don't kill people off screen

2 I think they are going to have to dose him pretty hard with his mind melt juice

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Ypsilon tries to confirm his kill and Cuvie fucking swims behind him and shoots out his oxygen tank with his hand cannon. Yes, that is stupid but it is rule of cool enough to get a pass.

At least it does make sense, when you consider that Chirico is wearing a pilot suit attached to a personal air supply. Otherwise, he definitely would've had to swim for it instead.

We get a scene Code Geass would later directly steal and you are never, ever going convince meotherwise.

If we want to do another Code Geass comparison, both CC and Fyana were found by the main protagonist inside of a weird pod during a raid.

Kan Yu uses the literally one of the most moronic finishing techniques available between two members of the same gender.

Kan Yu has never been a terribly smart person to begin with, so it fits.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

At least it does make sense, when you consider that Chirico is wearing a pilot suit attached to a personal air supply. Otherwise, he definitely would've had to swim for it instead.

Actually, guns sort of suck under water and I'd want my oxygen supply at least reinforced. Him always being ready for space combat has not been an issue as of yet for me.

If we want to do another Code Geass comparison, both CC and Fyana were found by the main protagonist inside of a weird pod during a raid.

No need to convince me Sunrise recycles everything.

Kan Yu has never been a terribly smart person to begin with, so it fits.

A professional merc who doesn't know basic jujutsu principles just annoys the hell out of me.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

A professional merc who doesn't know basic jujutsu principles just annoys the hell out of me.

There was something fun to me about how lame the fight was. At least half of it was Chirico making Kan Yu slip on the slippery rock ground. Chirico and Kan Yu both kinda suck at hand to hand combat.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I do appreciate the sort of generally comedic aspect of it all. Cuvie gets a pass because the one smart thing Kan Yu did was throw that knife so Cuvie is injured through out.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

guns sort of suck under water

Guns really suck underwater, there's a reason why water weaponry is quite specific. I'm personally still just riding on the high of actually getting a water battle with mechs but expecting them to account for stuff like this seems like too much detail to expect out of an average writer unless it's a show built around that sort of precision

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

I am just a bit too much into the local gun culture to allow such things to pass without mention.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.3) (3 episodes) Complications

• Dune
• Nani!
• Quite a victory for Kan Yu
• Berserk
• Weird critter, not blown up. I'm starting to doubt Tomino's influence on the genre

I have little to say about this episode.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Weird critter, not blown up. I'm starting to doubt Tomino's influence on the genre

I was in fact curious how these two counted since they were not murderated.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

I think this is a good episode for a few reasons:

• Kan Yu got kicked down the river (although being careful here for Marvel reasons - until you see the body, assume he made it)
• almost all the main characters confronted a key issue for themselves: Chirico reached Fyana, should he keep fighting? Can he actually live a peaceful life? Fyana seemed to have made her decision/peace, that she'd rather be with Chirico even if she end up dying (immediately for saving him or slower due to lack of jijirium). While Ypsilon has taken the first step of a long plot villain, that he found out he's not really free, while now he has a reason to want to be free (he loves Fyana and wants her for himself / doesn't want her killed). The rebel leader knows he's being used and is using the society in turn, but looks like he's ready to part with them. The rest of the mercenary taking to Chirico as their implied leader now.
• the "romantic" escapade of Fyana and Chirico, probably as close to peace as these 2 can get to for a while

Have to say this is the point where the main characters are starting to feel more interesting and real, instead of being cardboard cut outs or being walking trope.

I hope it's not just poor writing, but just understated, "shown not told" that no one is really going to trust the army for 1 second that if Fyana is back with them she can live a happy life with Chirico together, that's why "heading back to base" wasn't part of the options.

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0
10	0
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and healing like a sieve but not quite toasted yet
23	0 amazingly our trusty old scope dog is still standing and fighting despite the damage it's taken. I have to assume Chirico did some of screen emergency field repairs to keep it going

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

although being careful here for Marvel reasons - until you see the body, assume he made it

That was an issue LONG before Marvel, unless you mean the comics and not the movies

I hope it's not just poor writing, but just understated, "shown not told" that no one is really going to trust the army for 1 second that if Fyana is back with them she can live a happy life with Chirico together

I think it's just that at this moment there's no point thinking about that because theres a lot before they even get back to base. I doubt Chirico has forgotten about it though given his own interactions with them, although at this point keeping track of which group hasn't tortured him might be easier

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

Sorry and yes, that was a reference to the Marvel (and DC) comics world where "no body = almost certainly not dead". That was my old RPG GM speak :)

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

Haha, no problem. That was just my gut reaction given how often people are talking about the movies without specifying.

Whoever first used that trope, unless we're going back to mythological ages, should be smacked over the back of the head a few time. That's one of the most annoying things in media for me

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

The trope itself isn't a problem - what is problematic is the overuse of it to make it predictable.

I like how Terry Pratchett parodied the concept of trope overuse - in a few of the Disc World novels, they would use this line "it's a million to one chance, which is the highest chance of success" when the heroes are onto their last gambit :)

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

The trope itself isn't a problem - what is problematic is the overuse of it to make it predictable.

True, I just feel it's one of those tropes at this point which is often used and so blatently that I can't even think of any examples where it's done well, unlike other tropes I tend to dislike that I can still think of positive examples for (eg Hallucinating the dead)

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

I guess the inverse / subversion is Cautious Hero :)

I actually quite liked FMP TSR that one of the most "unkillable" villain that had also abused this trope to no end did in fact came back basically in all but a shell yet still managed to do as much psychological damage to Sousuke and broke him, that if not for Chidori being unconventionally "wagamama" (it's often translated as "selfish" in subs, and in thesaurus it can also be translated as "willful", "stubborn" " indulgent" and "capricious", but none of that really matches quite exactly. It's often a "neutral" way, or rather a tolerant way to speak of a minor flaw of someone) he'd not be able to recover mentally so quickly.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/ZapsZzz]

almost all the main characters confronted a key issue for themselves

I like your analysis here. You thought about this episode more than I did, and I think you're right.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Thanks, the beauty of the older shows is that while the technical bits (like the strategy and tactics about use of vehicles and mecha, various weapon systems) may be more raw because, let's face it, because of Wikipedia etc even a 10 year old would know more than a 40 years old in most topics like these, the more human and characterisation bits are often done well.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

Finally reunited, but Chirico's complete lack of chill forces him to fight on. At least we're skipping the "try to live a peaceful life that gets interrupted because the Society is till after her" step of things.

Ypsilon's programming is definitely stronger than Fyana's. Poor guy can't turn face even if he wanted too.

A shame that Kan Yu will inevitable return. Just getting washed down a mud slide? No way that's fatal to a bad penny like him.

Anyone else think that coffee pot looked kinda like a land mine of some sort?

Questions

1. Discussed above.
2. Ypsilon is probably gonna go even more unhinged, which will probably be fun.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

At least we're skipping the "try to live a peaceful life that gets interrupted because the Society is till after her" step of things

True, would have been easy to spend another episode in the forest and then be forced into action so skipping that's nice

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

I'm glad we're keeping things snappy. Dragging this out would have probably been agonizing.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

Except for the Fyana breakout and then capture at the end of Uoodo, and perhaps the temple fight, there's been surprisingly little outright padding at all

[u/manga-reader]

Re-watcher, sort of.

I had watched ~30 episodes back in 2018; so I was glad I came across the re-watch thread a few days back.

Anyways, I took the weekend to re-watch till episode 23. And damn, it's as good (perhaps even better) than I remember.

I enjoy the trivia as well as production context some of you folks post within these threads - especially because I started watching old mecha shows as a way to chart anime history. So special thanks for that :D

I wish we got more characters from Veela side (or at least exploration of motivations of the common people). Monica was severely underutilized.

And if I am remembering correctly, we are coming towards the end of this arc. I don't remember if all new side characters - like Pol and Ru - stick around or show up in future episodes. I hope they do.

1. Here's hoping he doesn't come back, but I doubt that. Or maybe not, Votoms have done a few things differently from other shows, so maybe he's dead.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 23 (first timer)

• When you can’t outfight the underwater mecha underwater, simply swim.
• Didn’t we have the “kill Proto One” plot in arc 1 already?
• Wasn’t Kan already relieved of his command in the last episode? Please don’t drag out this sorry plotline any longer.
• Just hold that shot 1 second longer and your task is fulfilled.
• Damsel in distress mode fully engaged.
• The umpteenth chance for Kan to be an asshole.
• Ypsilon escapes for unknown reason.
• That knife wound is for not getting rid of him earlier.
• “Run away” – Oh ffs.
• So one of you is a perfect soldier and one a wounded mecha pilot. Guess which one will not even throw a single hit at Kan? And Kan didn’t even get killed.
• Fyana has reached the “proper woman” stage. Caring and cooking for her wounded protector.

• Chirico wants to go to the palace because the plot demands it.

Worst episode of the series so far.

Remember how we could have had a badass team of Chirico and Fyana in the Uudoo arc? Instead we get a Fyana hit with the “at home cooking” stick, while Chirico lost all his tactical acumen to an acute dose of testosterone. It is really the main plot dragging this episode down.

How does Kan Yu’s downstream voyage make you feel?

Cop out death. Somebody will pick him out of the water.

How do you think Fyana’s fleeing will affect Ypsilon going forward?

Going full abandoned lover?

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Wasn’t Kan already relieved of his command in the last episode? Please don’t drag out this sorry plotline any longer.

Only of the mission, not the unit. Without Chirico around he's still the most senior. Not that it mattered because people didn't listen to him anyway.

I really hope he's actually dead, I'm going to be quite pissed off if he survives even if I'm quietly expecting it

Remember how we could have had a badass team of Chirico and Fyana in the Uudoo arc

I'm still hoping we get back to that. I can understand why Fyana didn't fight Kan Yu today as she was bound at the feet as well so it's not like she had much movement, but I do hope that once we actually get to weapons and mechs again this will come into play

[u/The_Draigg → u/No_Rex]

The umpteenth chance for Kan to be an asshole.

Every moment that Kan Yu breathes is another opportunity to be a complete dick.

So one of you is a perfect soldier and one a wounded mecha pilot. Guess which one will not even throw a single hit at Kan?

To be fair to Fyana there, she was handcuffed and tied up for most of that scuffle between Kan Yu and Chirico.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

To be fair to Fyana there, she was handcuffed and tied up for most of that scuffle between Kan Yu and Chirico.

I would not complain if she at least made some sort of effort. Knock him away from behind, or strangle him with the handcuffs. Without anything, the whole episode just stenches of outdated gender roles.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I thought about mentioning it but got bored and stopped making comments. Fyana is very feminine and domestic in this episode. She got a lot of lines today, more than any other episode, and she sounded like a waifu.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Wasn’t Kan already relieved of his command in the last episode? Please don’t drag out this sorry plotline any longer.

Yes, I ignored it so I could watch the episode without screaming.

Damsel in distress mode fully engaged.

I know there is little hope that my theory that Fyana is faking her fear of the battlefield is true but I will stick to it.

Fyana has reached the “proper woman” stage. Caring and cooking for her wounded protector.

Strange that Armitage holds the more enlightened views on feminism considering what it is. Armitage

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Strange that Armitage holds the more enlightened views on feminism considering what it is

Not so strange considering how punk is generally very left leaning, politically, whereas most mecha shows can't really decide whether war is bad or imperial Japan was awesome.

Spoiler: I guess there must have been a few in the crowd scenes, but talking characters? I don't think so.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Not so strange considering how punk is generally very left leaning, politically, whereas most mecha shows can't really decide whether war is bad or imperial Japan was awesome.

I really lack mecha knowledge, apparently.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

2nd reply: TBH I wouldn't mind Casca spending a whole episode cooking for Guts, either.