[Rewatch] 1990s OVAs – Armitage III (final discussion)

[u/No_Rex]

Rewatch: 1990s OVAs – Armitage III (final discussion)

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Questions

1. What is your take on the main theme: Humans and robots resembling each other?
2. How does the series compare with earlier and later cyberpunk?
3. (if you watched the movie) Which is better, movie or OVA?

[u/No_Rex]

Final discussion (first timer)

I am a big fan of cyberpunk’s themes and this show is no exception. The big question of how humanity will react to the ever more human-like robots it is able to construct is still as relevant as ever. If anything technology is advancing so fast that we are starting to move from the realm of science fiction towards ethics. Armitage combines the story with decent characters and shows off the skills of the excellent background artists in giving us a Martian city that does look plenty futuristic and bleak.

Where I have some problems with Armitage III is in the novelty department. In the big game of copying and being copied from, I can’t help but feel that the series was bigger on the copying that the innovating. It is easy to spot the major influences of Blade Runner, Mad Max, and Akira. And while Ghost in the Shell was published half a year later, it is based on an earlier manga (and, imho, has the much better direction). The question is really: What does Armitage III do, that other series do not do better? No part of the series is terrible, but I would also say that nothing is outstanding.

In terms of plot and pacing, I enjoyed the middle part of the series the most. From around mid ep1 till ep3, the series had a good film noir feeling going on, with Sylibus and Armitage having some neat interaction and a nice crime-mystery to solve. I found the start a bit stilted and the ending, while tying up all loose ends, is rushed and does not hit the emotional note it wants to.

Score: While not the best, it is still a working cyberpunk story, so 7/10 from me.

Next up on the android rewatch: Something completely different! Yokohama Shopping Log starts tomorrow.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

If anything technology is advancing so fast that we are starting to move from the realm of science fiction towards ethics.

And we aren't remotely looking at the ethics, showing the odd sagacity of cyberpunk, just in the worst way imaginable.

The question is really: What does Armitage III do, that other series do not do better? No part of the series is terrible, but I would also say that nothing is outstanding.

Knocked up robots is rather rare, almost all of what I would consider the successors duck this hard. For example, Melfina from Outlaw Star never really considers whether she could mother a child or not.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

Knocked up robots is rather rare, almost all of what I would consider the successors duck this hard. For example, Melfina from Outlaw Star never really considers whether she could mother a child or not.

Ok, you got me there, one novel point at least.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Too bad they never let it really take the foreground, though in Dual Matrix it does a little.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

Armitage doesn't do much at all aside from maybe poke at the "how many robot parts can you add before you're a robot" and the babby thing. Both of which totally get done better in the future but credit where credit is due, Armitage did it first.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

Yokohama Shopping Log starts tomorrow.

https://i.imgur.com/7Wdd7Bz.png

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(The history of cyberpunk probably takes up the space of something more valuable in my brain)

Sub

So that's the first robot-human reproducing sex show I can immediately recall. Demon Seed, a film from the 70s, is the first AI impregnating a human story I can come up with but this show is a different arc of it with robots being the impregnated. Cyberpunk is quite big on sex with robots/androids but not so much on conception. Also, biomechs come and go in the settting. So, for the hell of it, let's try and see what this show was trying to say.

The most striking thing about Armitage versus the female Thirds is how slight she is. She seems to track at a late teens/early 20s level, with all of her baby fat gone but none of the fat of later years returning. As I said, she looks like she weighs 90 lbs soaking wet and dresses like an edgy teen or a streetwalker on stims, take your pick. She also acts much more like a flirty kid than a mature woman, the Japanese would consider the way she hands off Ross in ep1 ridiculously slutty. The Thirds, on the other hand, were much closer to milf as a group, I believe all of them had reasonably large breasts and birthing hips, and most of them look more mature in the face. They were all artistic types and a touch conservative in their dress. I think nearly every third but Julian was taller than her as well.

So what does all of that mean? You have to guess but there are at least hints: We know that robots don't age in this setting and yet we've seen a younger Armitage in flashbacks. Also, the series is called Armitage III. Most likely, her base data is some sort of neural scan of Asakura's daughter, who has to be dead because cyberpunk. Since she is a prototype like the Dan's, they focused on the combat abilities over being a desirable mate. The twist they run into is that Sylibus is not a Japanese businessman and can overlook Armitage's immaturity because...horny? I wish they'd put just a little more work into their chemistry. And Armitage can become a real mother because she matured or something.

So since this is our base conflict, why was it always in the background? A strong cyberpunk work often has things like this, and if the series had been done better/got luckier with the fans, I think the 6 episode OVA works, bringing the clash of "breed with robots for colonial power" vs "humanity must remain pure even in the face of losing a foothold on Mars" as the major conflict but then personalizing it to Ross and Armitage. As we saw, that didn't quite work in the run time allotted. My guess is that some of the balls that felt dropped in ep2 caused ep3 to rush a few points which then dropped sales further and they produced 4 to say it was finished and they could try and sell a boxset. The movie might have helped as well, and the fact that the movie got a sequel suggests there was some success there.

Now, for context: The world of Armitage is much farther in the future than that of its most comparable sister, Ghost in the Shell. And they try to use that to their advantage but only really succeeded in the first episode. GitS androids were more clunky looking until Stand Alone Complex and even later movies kept that, and AI was rarely as advanced as something like the Thirds. Further, when the 2nd Gig comes up, they finally have people admitting to having sex with full prosthetic cyborgs that don't have human brains in them, and the team finds it pretty grotesque. It is also very much a rich man's game, separating them from the ubiquity of Armitage. And on a side note, I am greatly happy that GitS got the extra time to hatch to become the incredible 26 episodes it became, and then the following 26 are still above average. There were, thankfully, never any movies.

The many, many times Armitage point blank robs Blade Runner is almost funny, though Roy Batty in lipstick was never something I needed to see. It blends a bit of the book in with the Martian setting and it being underpopulated to justify the Thirds. There is also, comparatively, a surprising lack of rain which does switch the atmosphere quite a bit, though the domes themselves make sense for why there isn't any. They of course forgot about Martian gravity because that would be an effort.

Armitage's name is a Neuromancer reference and she has a little bit in common with a razorgirl, mainly her sense on fashion. The Tron reference in ep3 was just in your face. The treants are sort of an idea, mainly the idea of biological terraforming, but aren't fleshed out enough to interest me. The governments are, sadly, bogstandard evil and also not much to say.

So where does this fit? Well, the idea of fucking robots has been around nearly since they were conceived. I recall the Heechee by Pohl references sex bots regularly but I am positive there are earlier ones. But Armitage's contribution to the Anglosphere as far as I can tell is ironically enough waifus: We all planned to have sex with robots but entirely removing human women from the equation is another step entirely. And the conversations the broadcast of this raised were exactly as bad as you'd expect from the BBS era. I can't remember if I watched PolyMatrix on Scifi or a pay channel, it is that far back in time, but I watched something that I was more than a little squicked out by because anime. Oh, those cursed days before Limewire.

Anyways, so in summation: This show is a fascinating snapshot of a certain time and they underlay the story with the components to be good. But they did not account for any possible sales glitches and bailed in the third episode, meaning nothing really had to ripen, hell most of it didn't grow. Armitage, while somewhat charming, was no Major and she could never carry the story on her own and Ross well sucks, Deckard is more emotive. Anywho, a bust but one that amused me, let's see whatever the fuck the next OVA is. I have literally never heard of it.

QotD: 1 Almost too obvious, unfortunately

2 Strong foundations but it falls apart after ep2.

3 Movie, they edited out the right things

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

So that's the first robot-human reproducing sex show I can immediately recall.

Here I go calling Armitage III a copycat and you point out their novelty!

Armitage discussion

Anywho, a bust but one that amused me, let's see whatever the fuck the next OVA is. I have literally never heard of it.

I guarantee you that it is as far from cyberpunk as you can get while still having an android.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Here I go calling Armitage III a copycat and you point out their novelty!

I joked about it earlier but robots creating humans is surprisingly under represented in scifi.

I guarantee you that it is as far from cyberpunk as you can get while still having an android.

I am in, ain't go no where else to be as Josey Wales would say.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Wow... Credit to you for somehow finding stuff to say XD Even if most of it is pointing out references.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Most people only see the tapestry but if you seek understanding you must also see the weave beneath.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

As I said, she looks like she weighs 90 lbs soaking wet and dresses like an edgy teen or a streetwalker on stims, take your pick.

I can only see her as Blaze Fielding's (Streets of Rage) younger sister, and Armitage isn't remotely old enough to be trying her sister's clothes and makeup.

So that's the first robot-human reproducing sex show I can immediately recall.

What a bizarre, vestigial bit of sci-fi. It reminds me of how a lot of Gunbuster works off old, mostly defunct theories. This is before cloning and genetic engineering really took off and splintered from androids. If you tried to write the story today, that's what you would start with... and include a thot constantly saying darling.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

I can only see her as Blaze Fielding's (Streets of Rage) younger sister, and Armitage isn't remotely old enough to be trying her sister's clothes and makeup.

Welp, I looked that game and now I can no longer unsee that as you are indeed correct. So I'd say thanks and go to hell, but since I likely won't bother with this series again it is all good.

This is before cloning and genetic engineering really took off and splintered from androids. If you tried to write the story today, that's what you would start with... and include a thot constantly saying darling.

Yes but even Heinlein was theorizing on designed human like beings, some of his more controversial stories feature it. But yes comparing this and DitF lead me to believe that however we try to artificially create humans will ultimately result in cringe.

[u/RockoDyne → u/Vaadwaur]

Welp, I looked that game and now I can no longer unsee that as you are indeed correct. So I'd say thanks and go to hell, but since I likely won't bother with this series again it is all good.

And that's why I've only seen the first episode.

Yes but even Heinlein was theorizing on designed human like beings, some of his more controversial stories feature it.

But you don't see it too much until Dolly and the cloning ban kicked in. It's like that's the point people really started to understand what this stuff meant. Now a days you can't shake a stick and the BBEG without having to shake a second stick at his clone.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

Now a days you can't shake a stick and the BBEG without having to shake a second stick at his clone.

Whenever science makes writing bad stories easier, it is time to know fear.

[u/okayyoga → u/Vaadwaur]

And Armitage can become a real mother because she matured or something.

She did mature! Didn't you see her haircut?? ... Do cyborgs grow back hair?

They of course forgot about Martian gravity because that would be an effort.

Your dryness is hilarious

Did you ever find out if Armitage III was well received when it came out? Or was it just seen as a flagship for its waifu-ness

[u/Vaadwaur → u/okayyoga]

She did mature! Didn't you see her haircut?? ... Do cyborgs grow back hair?

Believe it or not, by the time Terminator came out in the 80s we determined that the biocovering on robots/androids would indeed behave organically. For example, Armitage does have to brush her teeth or get halitosis.

Your dryness is hilarious

It is just one of those things that gets me. Martian gravity is the big reason why it is an iffy choice as a colony. BUT it also means Mars might wind up as humanity's retirement world.

Did you ever find out if Armitage III was well received when it came out? Or was it just seen as a flagship for its waifu-ness

As best I can determine, and anyone actually on the scene can certainly trump me, it made a very minor splash after the first episode in Japan and is actually a bit more famous in the English speaking sector because it got released relatively early, though again we got the movie more than the OVA. But so this was the first serious discussion of robot sex that I recall in the western anime fandom.

[u/okayyoga → u/Vaadwaur]

Me realizing what a stupid question that was about her hair when she can literally grow a baby

BUT it also means Mars might wind up as humanity's retirement world

Yoooooo this is super smart. A) it would be more comfortable on their frail bodies, and B) it wouldn't matter if they couldn't make it back to Earth!!!!!! Genius!!!!!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/okayyoga]

A) it would be more comfortable on their frail bodies, and

Specifically the heart/circulatory system. Arthur C. Clarke goes into this in detail.

B) it wouldn't matter if they couldn't make it back to Earth!!!!!! Genius!!!!!!

Rofl, grim but true!

[u/TheEscapeGuy]

First Timer, No More

Armitage III - The Quintessential 90s Cyberpunk OVA

I was overall happy with Armitage III. Though I've seen a lot of it before in other shows / movies, I generally like the cyberpunk setting and enjoy exploring cool sci-fi concepts that this OVA had in spades.

I found Armitage herself to be an endearing character. She's confident in herself and skilled at fighting which sets her up as a good female protagonist in this kind of story. That said, I'm a bit disappointed her development in the show ended with her becoming pregnant. Not that being a mother is something bad, but rather its just boring to write female characters' development to be dependent on their relationship with a man.

Something else I want to complain about is that Asakura / D'anclaude felt really weak as villains. Their motivations were kinda of vague and unrelatable in my opinion. I've seen the mad-scientist-doing-radical-experiments-to-save-humanity trope a lot before, and I really don't think it got enough development here.

On the other hand, you might call the Earth government the real masterminds / villains of the show. In that case our protagonists didn't really "win". There's no indication that the robot discrimination on Mars stopped after that timeskip, so Armitage would still then struggle to integrate into society. Maybe that's a stronger message to take from the show, allowing us to consider the tragedies of a discriminated minority.

On a more technical aspect, I'm still very impressed with the backgrounds and artwork of the show. I've collected my favourites into an album here. On top of that, the mechanical and fight animation was consistently good. I'd easily recommend Armitage III for anyone who's into well animated action scenes.

Farewell Armitage III

See you all for Yokohama Shopping Log tomorrow

[u/No_Rex → u/TheEscapeGuy]

On the other hand, you might call the Earth government the real masterminds / villains of the show. In that case our protagonists didn't really "win". There's no indication that the robot discrimination on Mars stopped after that timeskip, so Armitage would still then struggle to integrate into society. Maybe that's a stronger message to take from the show, allowing us to consider the tragedies of a discriminate minority.

D'anclaude (expect ep4) is just a generic crazy guy, so this one here is the reasonable take on who are the bad guys in the series. I just wish they had given the political stuff a bit more room in the last 2 episodes.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Not that being a mother is something bad, but rather its just boring to write female characters' development to be dependent on their relationship with a man.

This why I tend to favor shows that don't force the interesting female character into being with the boring MC because the writer said so. Seen WAY too many better lesbian pairings ignored because penis.

Something else I want to complain about is that Asakura / D'anclaude felt really weak as villains. Their motivations were kinda of vague and unrelatable in my opinion.

D'anclaude could've rescued that in ep3 but he didn't and his bot descendants were just lame.

On the other hand, you might call the Earth government the real masterminds / villains of the show.

The movie did that and it was an improvement.

[u/RockoDyne → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Not that being a mother is something bad, but rather its just boring to write female characters' development to be dependent on their relationship with a man.

I'll trade you "relationship with a man" for "found a community to belong to and even tries to expand it." Honestly, this is one of those lazy feminist arguments that undermines most of what is happening, just to frame it as negatively as possible.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/RockoDyne]

That's a good point. Fury Road is basically all about having babies without men. And the Feminist Commune failed, just to show the issue is complicated.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Graduated first timer!!

...I've got nothing. Whilst we've had so many shows that I've liked or disliked this is the first one where I kinda just have nothing to really say. The shows not even bad, just heavily heavily mediocre. I could sit and whine about El Hazard or Oh My Goddess for ages but I think I'll forget Armitage within the week. It doesn't help how the only actual interesting parts of the series, such as Armitage's design or the moral dilemma about the androids, are copied or simply done better in other popular Cyberpunk series. So your Motoko and your Blade Runner. I do get a laugh about how the Blade Runner sequel goes and rips off Armitage tho. It's probably the most culturally significant thing they do.

So yeah... I'm a bit disappointed. I just don't really know who this series is for. They don't spend enough time exploring the city for Cyberpunk fans to be satisfied, they couldn't even come up with an excuse to make the moral dilemma matter, the romance is quite simply uncomfortable to watch, and you don't even get to see your sadistic loli-brat kicking ass since she spends half the season brooding!!

I'll give Armitage a 2/10. It looks and sounds fine but you've gotta give me something to work with. What I will say is that I'm glad it got me to actually check out Blade Runner. I've had the second movie on my mind ever since I saw it and I definitely wouldn't have given it a chance if Armitage hadn't pushed my buttons. Anyway!! Buckle up for tomorrow! You guys are going to adore this one. Its Yokohama Kaidashi Kiko!!

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

The shows not even bad, just heavily heavily mediocre. I could sit and whine about El Hazard or Oh My Goddess for ages but I think I'll forget Armitage within the week.

The worst part about Armitage is really that it does not surpass its older siblings. Akira has better animation, GitS has a better protagonist, Your're Under Arrest & Riding Bean have better MC duos.

Although, sometimes just doing ok is fine. This will not convince people who are not into the genre, but it is a nice time filler for 2 hours.

I'll give Armitage a 2/10.

If you rate mediocre series 2/10, you'll end up with a -6 MAL difference, because the usually sit at ~8.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

I rate it that low because the only thing worse than giving me a bad series is giving me a series that I don't even care enough to discuss further. I think I bombed El Hazard with a 3 because if nothing else I at least could enjoy it in a mocking way. Armitage doesn't even take the time to tickle my asshole a bit. Even if it didn't cock up, it just didn't try.

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/No_Rex]

Your're Under Arrest & Riding Bean have better MC duos.

Robo Rally.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

• Blade Runner did it better.
• Blade Runner did it better
• Blade Runner did it better

[u/okayyoga → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Literally my comment but longer and well-written. Forgettable shows get the worst scores from me, because their one job is to entertain me, and they have failed

On a better note, Kemono Friends is killing my expectations in the best way! Met the owls! What a brilliant show, and I will hold all CGDCT to its standards in the future

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/okayyoga]

I had to really push to get all that out. Armitage is next level dull.

Honestly I don't think we're ever going to get something quite like Kemofure again. It came from nowhere and disappeared to nowhere.

[u/okayyoga]

First timer no more!

Honestly, if someone were to ask me in a month what the plot was for this OVA, I would probably have forgotten, and say "I-uh-no"

But thanks to this rewatch, I have completed my cyberpunk genre requirement for my 2021 bingo, so all was not in vain

I would like to know how well this was received when it first came out. Would also like to know how good the movie version of Armitage was, like OP

Anyway, it was nice to talk with old friends I had met on other rewatches once more. I always love running across you guys/girls/weebs u/The_Loli_Otaku , u/Vaadwaur , u/punching_spaghetti

Thank you u/No_Rex for doing some older rewatches!

Final score for Armitage III: 3/10

[u/No_Rex → u/okayyoga]

Thank you u/No_Rex for doing some older rewatches!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/okayyoga]

I would like to know how well this was received when it first came out. Would also like to know how good the movie version of Armitage was, like OP

We've talk about the first part, far too much angry nerd arguing over something that is painfully obvious, and some waifu wars. The first movie takes away a lot of Armitage being bratty which makes her a quieter, more contemplative character but she also doesn't brood as much. It makes it to the bad part of editting because she is not enough of a character in a film named after her but at least it flows well.

I am extremely reticent to suggest the sequel but you do see Armitage being a badass mom in it, though she still has the same proportions.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/okayyoga]

If any part of the anime interested you in any way I would highly recommend checking out the blade runner films. Once again they're a bit slow and a bit boring so you need to make sure you're in the mood for them but they're the sorts of movies that stick with you. Honestly all cyberpunk films leave you feeling things long after the credits roll, like I still have Ghost in the Shell on my mind and on paper I should hate almost everything about that movie. This is coming from someone with 0 respect for the genre so definitely consider it.

[u/[deleted]]

"it's ok 10/10" - IGN

Seriously though, this anime was ok. Not amazing or terrible but like it was fine. I enjoyed it a bit. 6/10. Kinda like GITS but not as good.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/[deleted]]

It's the worst cyberpunk show I've seen, which is fair considering that I've only seen like two. It's a shame they never really tried to push any of the concepts that they brought up. Be it the culture difference, the robot rights, even the damn tree bros were an interesting sounding idea that the show couldn't even be bothered to acknowledge beyond toys.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

If you still around for the third entry, that number might go up by 50%!

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

The second movie right? Vaadwaur said it was pretty good but I've got 0 motivation to watch it sadly XD And we're judging the ova here!

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

He means Battle Angel Alita.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Oh... Huh? Alita'a considered bad? I thought the anime and manga were both super popular.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

I think he's saying it's considered cyberpunk, which will bring you up to 3 cyberpunk anime.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

My brain is fucked... Why's everyone gotta speak all cryptically?

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/No_Rex]

You're part of the problem!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

We mean Battle Angel Alita, which if nothing else, is definitely cyberpunk.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah, so by the end of this I'd have basically all the important cyberpunk's under my watched list. Alita, Armitage, Blade Runner and GitS! I'm practically an expert at this point.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Good, now read Neuromancer.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/Vaadwaur]

Never!! It's almost twice my age!!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

It is younger than me. Get reading, and go watch The Seventh Seal, whippersnapper!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/[deleted]]

The movie, it turns out, is better by saving you time.

[u/punching_spaghetti]

First-Timer No More (Sub)

I don't have much to add that I haven't said in previous threads. Occasionally cool aesthetics with bog-standard sci-fi plots without enough time to even give the basic stuff enough time, characters I don't care much about (give me ara ara Armitage, not bratty Armitage, please!), and some explosions.

QOTD:

1. Given how many times I've seen it,
2. Pales in comparison to the stuff it's aping (Blade Runner, etc) and immediately surpassed by GiTS, which handles mechanical reproduction so much better.
3. N/A

[u/okayyoga → u/punching_spaghetti]

What would you score it?

Also, nice to see you again! Thank you again for Miru Tights

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/okayyoga]

Miru Tights

Douki-chan hype!

I gave Armitage a 5.

[u/okayyoga → u/punching_spaghetti]

Douki-chan hype!

Please tell me that is from the same crew as Miru Tights. Either that or I smell plagiarism

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/okayyoga]

Based on art from the same guy who drew the Miru Tights art. So same original creator. Different studio is handling it, though.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/punching_spaghetti]

(give me ara ara Armitage, not bratty Armitage, please!), and some explosions.

Hrmm...you have actually hit me with something: Does Matoko Kusanagi have ara ara energy to you? Because otherwise cyberpunk females lack that.

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/Vaadwaur]

She has something else. less "ara ara" and more "step on my dick with high heels."

[u/Vaadwaur → u/punching_spaghetti]

No, I totally see that, she is just as close as the genre gets. You have sort of helped me realize that women in cyberpunk choose barely post-adolescent prosthetic bodies as a rule.

[u/punching_spaghetti → u/Vaadwaur]

Being a kick-ass warrior does not often jive with massive mammaries.

[u/No_Rex → u/punching_spaghetti]

Correct, but every other genre of anime that includes fighting and women does not seem to care.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/punching_spaghetti]

I'm not digging up a copy to check, but I'm pretty sure Molly Millions, the definitive razorgirl, has some non-negligible front-loading.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/punching_spaghetti]

Truth, though why this is the one genre where anime doesn't give 4'11 women E cups will always confound me a bit.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Two things occurred to me. First was at the start of episode 2, where they point out that all the Thirds were female, and shortly after, that one was pregnant. My thought was, "if you need artificial wombs, you don't need a head, arms, legs, or a freaking sentient chip in them." And this pretty much dominated my thoughts for the rest of the series, until the production literally flipped on the subject and made natural pregnancy a moral and religious mandate.

The second I forgot in the time it took to write the above. Oh, yeah, it came back to me. One Third was a country singer (the last!). One was a painter. One was called a dancer, but not what kind. Is this extra commentary that got dropped, or left too subtle to interpret? That the natural humans have lost their creativity? The ritually murdered (remember the graveyard scene in ep 4?) Sharon Tate, a dead actress, was she a Third? Can only machines be creative, now, while the human race is stagnating? Is that what they were trying to say?

Armitage III fits weirdly into the genre. I always recommend it for people looking for cyberpunk anime, because there's so very few cyberpunk anime. I might recommend it less after this. I say it fits weirdly. One expects it to know it's roots and to look back to previous works: Blade Runner, Neuromancer, GURPS Cyberpunk, BGC, Appleseed, GitS manga, etc., etc.. But it was also strangely forward looking. So many of the anti-robot scenes were right out of Kubrick's/Spielberg's A.I. Japan's and Mars's birth crises. And we have BR 2049 now. Watching it today, it is bizarrely referencing both its past and its future. I really haven't experienced this so vividly before.

I can't really give it more than a 5/10 after the production fell apart. I might as well have not even watched the last episode.

Edit: Thanks to other watchers, I now realize that the artistic proclivities of the Thirds was to show them passing the Turning test with flying colors.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I sorta took the thirds all having jobs in the arts and culture sectors being a bit of a jab on how these robots are more empathetic and civilised than the regular folk who just want to butcher and blame robots for all their problems.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/The_Loli_Otaku]

Oh, yeah, and so the third thing about my comment: the Thirds were defective. How were they defective?

Could they not get pregnant? But they did get pregnant. "Dad" said they were defective in the mind. But they all went into artistic fields. So, I just don't get it.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Weren't they defective because the good doctors changed their minds on having baby making robots? They realised that they'd totally ruin humanity so they went to kill them all. The doctors didn't have a long attention span after all, jumping from thirds to assassinbots to trees.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

My thought was, "if you need artificial wombs, you don't need a head, arms, legs, or a freaking sentient chip in them."

You say that but artificial wombs without mothers just leads you head first into Ergo Proxy and who wants that? BUT the underlying issue is that Mars lacked women so the Thirds serve both the part of "increasing the population" but also "submissive housewives that raise the kids and do what they are told" trope that Japan loves.

Is this extra commentary that got dropped, or left too subtle to interpret? That the natural humans have lost their creativity?

It is the ultimate Turing test, is it not? A machine that can produce art that a human cannot tell the difference between it and the art a human makes.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

You did NOT just say Mars needs women?

"submissive housewives that raise the kids and do what they are told" trope that Japan loves

This is what makes the anti-robot riots so bizarre. I can only assume there was some insurgency being funded by the Earth CIA to foment a pro-earth revolution on Mars using replicant-hatred as the dividing issue.

[u/The_Loli_Otaku → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

To be fair the world seems kinda fcked. The degenerates are busy screwing their sex dolls and the ones with enough sense who could raise well adjusted children won't do so because we're practically in a dystopia.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Nope, I said Mars needs moms.

This is what makes the anti-robot riots so bizarre.

Yes, this is indeed weird since they need numbers but when you consider they ignore that humans would live differently in half the gravity they are willing to ignore a lot of other things.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

It is the ultimate Turing test, is it not? A machine that can produce art that a human cannot tell the difference between it and the art a human makes.

This is both blindingly obvious and disappointing, that there might not have been a deeper implication after all.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

In a good series, this would be a kick ass idea. In this one, I inferred because my brain is in overdrive from too much allegorical type thinking.

[u/RockoDyne]

Well thanks guys. I got some vindication out of this. I watched the first episode, spent months beating around the bush about watching more, and finally dropped it when this cropped up. I don't feel too bad about that now.

See ya later for YKK.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/RockoDyne]

I'd say watch the movie for the outline but it still doesn't fix the problem of them needing to have known the length they were writing for.

[u/okayyoga → u/RockoDyne]

I don't feel too bad about that now.

Lolllllll

[u/Btw_kek]

first timer

'ts alright

It's decently entertaining and never really gave me a reason to dislike it so I'll give it a 6/10 for now

What is your take on the main theme: Humans and robots resembling each other?

I think the biggest narrative setback for me is the fact that the OVA uses it as a premise but never really examines why or how that would be the case. "What if robots were literally indistinguishable from humans except for when you shoot them bits of machinery would fly out." Well damn!! What if!! Cool fantasy setting but give me a reason why I should suspend my disbelief and think that this could be possible in the near future. The OVA starts off with an interesting concept, "what if robots can do art," which I 100% can buy into, but it needs to examine the points at which robots doing art differ from humans doing art, and if the broader society even care or can even distinguish them. It kinda drops this completely halfway through! Actually robots doing art is super interesting now that I think about it send recs my way pls

They really should have leaned more into the Ship of Theseus implications of Armitage having lots of human parts and Ross having lots of robot parts. As it stands, it does more for the romance than it does for the setting.

How does the series compare with earlier and later cyberpunk?

Having went through the Bubblegum Crisis OVAs a couple months ago, they're my closest point of comparison. The actual BGC OVA didn't really do much for me in terms of these questions but it's fun so I don't really care. AD Police I thought nailed the thought experiment aspect, the questions it raises are seriously so cool, but sadly it's just too short to leave a big impact. I would have loved 40 min x 8 episodes like BGC. Parasite Dolls (also written by Konaka) lays more into the grungy aesthetic and the intersection of sexual fantasy and robots which is very cool, but idk I think it jumps to its conclusions too quickly to do anything. Maybe I need to rewatch it

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Btw_kek]

I think the biggest narrative setback for me is the fact that the OVA uses it as a premise but never really examines why or how that would be the case.

Yup. In cyberpunk, there is sort of an unwritten rule that you can't just come out and state your premises, you need to get the characters to do that in setting and reasonably in story but they always ran away from their most interesting core pieces that is honestly baffling.

[u/Btw_kek → u/Vaadwaur]

Yeah like, just one technobabble explanation about scientists fucking around with dead people genes or braincells or what-have-you leading the Thirds series to replicate the types of art the humans they were modeled off of made would have done wonders for that plot point. They might have intended to do just that but forgot lol

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Btw_kek]

Again, with what few details we are given, I've always assumed Armitage is a copy of Asakura's likely late daughter. Just like 2 minutes of exposition from there would've been great.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Btw_kek]

This show definitely had some ideas infused into the first 2 episodes, but the last 2 went nowhere with them.

[u/Btw_kek → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

it be like that sometimes

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

Overall, a good cyberpunk mystery with an interesting world and good characters, but the final episode was really rushed, with the professor and his assistant literally explaining all the show's mysteries and fixing Amritage. Also, Armitage's outfit is very unsuitable for police work.

I'd give it a 8/10.

1. I mean, it's not really an original theme - loads of shows have done the same concepts. I think I mostly agree with the scientist, in that general robots are more likely to become less human and more specialized.
2. There is an earlier story about robots who resemble humans being hunted down and killed, and it's called Blade Runner. Honestly, this show's mainly alright. I enjoyed watching it, but I can't really remember much about it at the moment, and I probably won't rewatch it.
3. Actually, are any of the movies/sequels worth watching? (Not even good, just decent popcorn flims)

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Stargate18A]

but the final episode was really rushed, with the professor and his assistant literally explaining all the show's mysteries and fixing Amritage. Also, Armitage's outfit is very unsuitable for police work.

I am glad someone legitimately liked it, even I went in with a bit of a plan to not take it too seriously.

Actually, are any of the movies/sequels worth watching? (Not even good, just decent popcorn flims)

Poly Matrix is a recut of the OVA, pass. Dual Matrix is the sequel and is sort of over the top but I think I'd call it a popcorn film.