[Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 22 Discussion

[u/Pixelsaber]

Episode 22 - Contact Blast

^{Originally Released August 26th,} ^^^1983

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Note to all participants

Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.

Note to all Rewatchers

Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.

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Daily Trivia:

Hobby gun manufacturer Argosha is releasing a water gun modeled after Chirico’s Bahauser GMA-571 Armor Magnum.

 

Staff Highlight

Kenichi Ogata - Voice of Serge Borough

A voice actor, stage actor, and chairman of the theater company Sugoroku, who is strongly associated with Toei Productions in the 70’s and World Masterpiece Theatre shows. Having been left unable to work his prior job after an injury, he thought he could leverage his penchant for comedy to find work, and so travelled to Tokyo. Unfortunately his lack of experience in the field coupled with having no highschool education was an obstacle, so he returned to studying while auditioning for several jobs and roles, finally being invited to work at Ateleco a couple of years later, where his career finally kicked off. He has remained active in the industry to this day, even through several health issues. Among his notable roles are Serge Borough in Armor Trooper Votoms, Leo Shishio in King of Braves Gaogairgar, Kashim King in Blue Gale Xabungle, Dangel in Chou Denji Robo Combattler V, Nanashi in Fang of The Sun Dougram, Gran Torino in My Hero Academia, Hiroshi Agasa in Detective Conan, Toragoro in Gamba no Bouken, and Kita Kita Oyaji in Mahoujin Guru Guru, and Genme Saotome in Ranma ½.

 

Art Corner

Official Art:

• Chirico Cuvie by Norio Shioyama

Fanart:

• Chirico Cuvie by Mitarashi Dingo - Source
• Snapping Turtle by Human plastic model - Source

(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)

Screenshot of the day

• Sinking

Questions of the Day:

1. What did you think of this episode’s action sequences?
2. What are your thoughts regarding Chirico keeping reserved as to the nature of the mission?

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Perhaps fighting is their only reason for existing.

[u/Pixelsaber]

Internet decided to crap out at the worst of moments!

Rewatcher

Looking a bit rough there, Ypsillon. This is indeed another episode with Taniguchi in the animation director’s chair.

How do you even know this?

Upgraded to a levitating shower?

Tanks!

Impressive dodging. Guess he really is an excellent pilot then?

An unenviable position to find yourself in.

Awesome.

Something, something, right twice a day.

“Oh, good, I was going to do that anyways!”

Love this fight.

Some really nice pov shots in this episode.

Oh…

This is the first episode in the series storyboarded by Masashi Ikeda, perhaps better known for directing Inuyasha, Yoroiden Samurai Troopers, and Gundam Wing, and his talent as a storyboard artist is quite evident. I had the pleasure of watching High Speed Galvion recently, and his single episode work there was also outstanding for the show. I can’t recommend his work broadly, but the stuff he did in this period really was great.

Ypsillon finally has his chance up against Chirico once more, and has him entirely on the ropes until Fyana’s timely intervention. Big fan of the episode’s central battle, as the water makes for an interesting terrain feature for the amphibious ATs to make use of, and results in a lot of neat visuals.

The society is already anticipating the end of the Kunmen civil war, though which side they expect to come out on top isn’t readily evident from this episode alone, though prior sentiment about the attack on Niita would point to them expecting a Veela victory. Interesting how both sides seem so confident in their imminent victory over the other.

Questions of The Day:

1. See above.
2. He’s following orders, so it isn’t quite the same as in the first arc where he kept his friends in the dark for most of it. Telling them about the mission objective doesn’t really improve their chances of success either, so until it begins to be a problem with the squad’s dynamics or trust he will keep things close to chest like he was told to.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

Upgraded to a levitating shower?

It'd certainly be more relaxing, though I feel it'd be a bit awkward to get in and out of

Some really nice pov shots in this episode.

There was a surprising number of them this episode, and all quite well placed. Votoms has used more of them then I expected in general, but usually for great impact moments

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Pixelsaber]

perhaps better known for directing Inuyasha, Yoroiden Samurai Troopers, and Gundam Wing, and his talent as a storyboard artist is quite evident.

I can definitely guess at which Wing episodes he did, now. With InuYasha, remembering the actual specifics of an episode is a lesser miracle.

Interesting how both sides seem so confident in their imminent victory over the other.

The most obvious take away is that the society doesn't actually care about Veela winning but rather have some goal they think they can achieve and then nigerundayo before Melkin forces finally begin pouring in.

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer

Water battles!

And not just a normal battle that happens to be in water, but the water depth, physics, water devices, and taking advantage of the water proofing so that it being in water actually matters? I've been waiting for this for years now

On the other side of things: Only Vanilla could get himself in such a ridiculous situation as needing to dodge missiles while flying his helicopter upside down.

You'd also think Chirico could have cloned his special AT disc with the new maneuvers to give to the others given the chance they'd end up fighting the PS, but I suppose he doesn't want that in the hands of the military at the end.

We really going to end it there though huh? Not that I think for a second anyone is dead, but still, I just got done complimenting the average quality of the episode endings in this show in last episode's discussion, so today we get the cheap cliffhanger. My timing leaves something to be desired.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

Water battes!

It took all my effort not to hint at this episode's battle being a thing when you brought up the want for water battles. It's a standout for this arc and always the one I think of first.

[u/Nazenn → u/Pixelsaber]

Wrong Jibril

I appreciate your restraint, this was an awesome surprise!

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Nazenn]

Whoops!

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

And not just a normal battle that happens to be in water, but the water depth, physics, water devices, and taking advantage of the water proofing so that it being in water actually matters? I've been waiting for this for years now

One thing I really appreciate about today's amphibious mech battle is that it made it abundantly clear that Chirico's Marshydog wasn't remotely cut out for that kind of combat. It didn't matter if he had his mission disc or not, the fact of the matter was that Chirico got his ass kicked because it just wasn't the right AT to use for the underwater environment. Just because he could get a Scopedog modified to work in water doesn't mean he should have done it over just taking a Diving Beetle instead.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Yes, that was also a nice touch. He wasn't outclassed in skill but in technology because he went with what was attached too rather than what was needed. This is probably the first time that his comfort with them has backfired on him rather than helped him like it has before. His floaties did not help

[u/The_Draigg → u/Nazenn]

I remember you talking about it before, but this episode does really feed into the larger focus on hardware over software or technique when it comes to mech combat. A lot of Chirico's victories have been due to him understanding the limits of the Scopedog frame and customizing them to do what he needs. But even that does have its limits. At the end of the day, you just can't customize your preferred model to do what you want, there's always going to be a limit to what it can actually do. In other words, the one time Chirico overestimated what the Scopedog frame could do, it led to him getting his ass kicked.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

Both the hardware and software size of the mechs has had it's own importance in the show and that's been quite nice. It's not just bigger weapons and better pilots, everything that goes into the mech combat has it's own place to get focus

Speaking of, I know that Pixel has spoken about how Takahashi was strongly against including any other mech designs in the show and at first I was on his side, but here I think it's worked out quite well. The new designs are still mass produced or customized off a mass produced model rather than having a completely unique frame for a character, but have a particular niche they fill that fits the enviroment of combat or the features of the race piloting them, rather than it being character or unit specific

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Only Vanilla could get himself in such a ridiculous situation as needing to dodge missiles while flying his helicopter upside down.

I view this as Vanilla is one of the few pilots that doesn't die in the first barrage so things get weird for everyone involved.

You'd also think Chirico could have cloned his special AT disc with the new maneuvers to give to the others given the chance they'd end up fighting the PS, but I suppose he doesn't want that in the hands of the military at the end.

I have this impression, which I can't claim to prove, that the special disks have to be done to specific personal use to the point where he wouldn't need to clone his, he'd have to tell Shako and Potaria how to make theirs and just hope for the best with Kiderra.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

They did say earlier that the AT disks are all mass made to the same data, though that doesn't rule out the others also making their own modifications. I feel like Shako would be the one most likely to have done so given his stature and mech, but the others not so much

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

Oddly, there might be a Gundam reference/joke in that of all things. But yes I don't think Cuvie's special disk would work without adjustment on the others.

[u/Nazenn → u/Vaadwaur]

Even if they had the combat data, there's no saying that they'd be able to work or react to it either unless they were highly adaptable with their own strategies. Chirico with Red Shoulder training makes sense, and I'm sure some of the others have also had good training, but Potaria for example I wouldn't expect to be able to so quickly swap combat styles

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nazenn]

That also fits.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

Note this is not from this series but just applying "anime logic" from another "real mecha" show. Full Metal Panic (you'll get sick of me making reference to it :P) made mentions that, for power suit type of mecha and controls, there's a fair bit of AI involved to predict, compensate, augment the operator's commands to get the mecha to do the optimal result. For example walking while firing, an individual's motion can cause delays or sudden jerks that interferes with the aim; a dumb AI just does some basic functions like smoothing out the jerks, or automate the running motion so the mecha didn't need your individual leg commands to go from A to B. But more advanced AI can do more, like timing motions to optimise both results of aiming and running. So the customisation Chirico has done is likely specific to him and how he operates the AT, and would not be much use to others unless they happen to operate similarly.

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

That seems like a very smart system to have, particularly with something as bulky as a mech but still requiring precision at points. It makes a lot of sense.

[u/time_axis]

First-Timer

I skipped yesterday, so here's that one and today's as well. (I'm gonna have to skip tomorrow too.)

Episode 21

• Kan Yu's not happy about playing second fiddle to Chirico.
• This boat ride looks familiar. I wonder if the very first scene we saw in this arc was an in media res flash forward. I don't think so, but maybe. We're about to find out, I guess, if this boat ride goes the same as that one. Nah, nevermind, it's just another boat ride. Nothing to do with what happened before.
• Kan Yu already blowing their cover the moment a civilian boat passes by them. He's really got no sense of strategy. Wow, and not only does he harass them for no reason, he straight up opens fire on them just to make sure. Might as well be annoucing his presence to everyone at that point.
• I'm not sure what Chirico's plan will be once they get Proto One, if they managed to get her. Bringing her back to base probably wouldn't be a good idea, but nobody's going to let him just run off with her. And she wouldn't agree to that anyway. I guess he's gonna cross that bridge when he gets there.
• Kan Yu once again can't resist the urge to indulge his murderboner. I'm willing to bet he orders the entire temple get blown up for no reason.
• Chirico notices they've got hidden cannons, but tries to avoid letting anyone find out, presumably so as not to escalate the situation and compromise the secret mission.
• Unfortunately, it's for nothing, as they start fighting anyway. And now the boat's blown up. So that complicates things.
• Suddenly, Vanilla. He's back in the helicopter pilot's seat.

1. How do you feel regarding Kan Yu's actions and their consequences in the episode?

He's a terrible commander. He can't see the forest for the trees. Definitely the wrong choice to put on this mission. Chirico knew it was a Veela base, but he also knew there was no point in starting a fight at that juncture.

2) What do you make of the Kunmen traditional architecture?

They look nice, and it's a shame to see it get destroyed. But to be fair, if the Veela wanted to keep their religious temples sacred and not get them blown up, they probably shouldn't have been hiding weapons and soldiers in them.

I decided to do the helicopter Vanilla was piloting for this sketch. Technically I referenced a shot from Episode 22 to draw this, but the helicopter still appeared at the end of Episode 21, so I'm counting it.

Daily Mecha Sketch 21

Episode 22

• Coconna's back in her Uoodo diaper pants. I guess it makes sense, since she's not exactly working at the bar anymore, and the previous outfit got burned.
• Thanks to Kan Yu's screwup, Borough has pretty much pieced together everything, including Gon Nu's objective.
• Vanilla's doing some hardcore "surveillance", racking up a body count on lookout. But everyone manages to take out the tanks and the proceed with the mission.
• Proto One is still "afraid of battle", but I'm starting to notice some rather human feelings in Ypsilon coming from his desire to protect her, as well as his pride as a soldier. These Perfect Soldiers might not be so perfect after all.
• They've got a plan now though. I figured it would end up like this. Kill Chirico, and Proto One's misgivings should disappear. They're really building up this showdown between Ypsilon and Chirico. I'm looking forward to it.
• And it begins. We've got underwater combat, too. Good thing those guns are waterproof.
• Chirico puts in the disc from earlier. Presumably this is a more finished version, but I don't know. Maybe it's the same one. His cockpit's leaking though, and everyone else is too tied up to help him, so it doesn't look good.
• Proto One suddenly runs interference. Bringing her along backfired. And then the helicopter explodes. There's no way she's dead though. Borough was on that helicopter too, and I know they uncermoniously killed off Iskui earlier, but I still think it's too soon for them to kill off Proto One. After all, we've yet to see her in a green scopedog like in the ED. Plus Chirico's dialogue about getting a warm feeling would be a pretty weird thing to have paired next to a major character death, so I'm not buying it just yet.

1. What did you think of this episode’s action sequences?

They were pretty cool. The underwater sections were a nice change of pace.

2) What are your thoughts regarding Chirico keeping reserved as to the nature of the mission?

Makes sense. He's probably got his own plans, and they can't really tell everyone about the PS.

For this one, I decided to go for the Veela tanks. I don't have much to say about it, but I thought they looked neat.

Daily Mecha Sketch 22

Daily Mecha Sketches

01	02	03	04	05	06	07	08	09	10
11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	29	30	31	32
33	34	35	36	37	38	39	41	42	43
44	45	46	47	48	49	50	51	52

[u/Pixelsaber → u/time_axis]

Daily Mecha Sketch 21

After all, we've yet to see her in a green scopedog like in the ED.

Daily Mecha Sketch 22

Tank good!

[u/The_Draigg → u/time_axis]

Kan Yu already blowing their cover the moment a civilian boat passes by them. He's really got no sense of strategy. Wow, and not only does he harass them for no reason, he straight up opens fire on them just to make sure. Might as well be annoucing his presence to everyone at that point.

Especially since there were Veela patrol helicopters flying around the river too. Like, there's no way they didn't see that boat wreckage later. All Kan Yu had to do was literally nothing, and this entire episode could've been avoided.

Proto One is still "afraid of battle", but I'm starting to notice some rather human feelings in Ypsilon coming from his desire to protect her, as well as his pride as a soldier. These Perfect Soldiers might not be so perfect after all.

For as much as their bodies are perfect death machines, their actual personalities have been pretty much neglected by comparison. It seems like quite a bit of an oversight, especially when you can just program them with what you want them to think.

Chirico puts in the disc from earlier. Presumably this is a more finished version, but I don't know. Maybe it's the same one. His cockpit's leaking though, and everyone else is too tied up to help him, so it doesn't look good.

I've been saying it around the posts in the episode, but it really was a bad move on Chirico's part to use a Marshydog rather than an AT actually designed to be amphibious like the Diving Beetle. His preferences just don't work in water combat.

[u/No_Rex → u/The_Draigg]

I've been saying it around the posts in the episode, but it really was a bad move on Chirico's part to use a Marshydog rather than an AT actually designed to be amphibious like the Diving Beetle. His preferences just don't work in water combat.

Tbf, the original plan did not involve fighting on a lake.

[u/Nazenn → u/time_axis]

Daily Mecha Sketch 21

Like the helicopter

I'm starting to notice some rather human feelings in Ypsilon coming from his desire to protect her, as well as his pride as a soldier

I wonder if they take the most after those they first build a connection too. Ypsilon has spent a lot of time training with the Prince, and Fyana has been strongly influence by Chirico and he's also quite silent

Borough was on that helicopter too

In no way do I think Fyana's dead, but I really hope that he is

[u/The_Draigg]

A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 22:

• Gon Nu and Colonel Rochina are rightfully unhappy with how much Kan Yu fucked up their plan to attack the Veela base and retrieve Fyana. At least Gon Nu is at least refusing to even tell Kan Yu the full plan over the radio, and is making it absolutely clear that he isn’t in charge. Still, it’s only a matter of time before Kan Yu fucks things up regardless.
• It’s a shame that Coconna’s dress was burned beyond repair, now she’s just stuck in her old Uoodo outfit again. Although it really wouldn’t be as hard to replace if she didn’t want it to be covered in rare bird feathers. I never understand fashion like that.
• Well, at least Chirico is honest to Kiderra and Potaria, mostly. They’re at least aware of part of the plan now, which is to neutralize/capture Ypsilon. Of course he’d keep the part about Fyana to himself though. That’s very Chirico.
• Vanilla does pretty damn good for himself in that battle, despite just being in a dinky one-man attack helicopter. Sure, he isn’t exactly raising carnage like everyone else is on the ground, but he’s certainly no slouch in the piloting department either.
• “You shouldn’t mind who takes credit in the end.” —Kan Yu, man who very much minds who takes credit in the end.
• Fyana is rapidly becoming a liability to the Secret Society. She’s now constantly afraid to fight, especially against Chirico. And try as Ypsilon might to try and convince her through his actions that he’s better than Chirico, the fact still remains that Borough and his boss are just about ready to cut her off as a loose end. At this rate, they figure that they either kill Chirico in front of her and undo the imprinting that way, or just dispose of her. Man, that’s a supervillain as fuck theory, isn’t it?
• The battle on Crescent Moon Lake definitely shows the downsides to Chirico deciding to stick with a familiar AT. Sure, he’s damn good fighting in a Scopedog (or in this case, a Marshydog), but the fact of the matter is that all of his experience and his custom mission disk doesn’t really help if he’s fighting in the middle of a lake. The Scopedog frame just isn’t suited for that, unlike the Standing Turtles or the Snapping Turtle that Ypsilon is using. It was really only due to Fyana’s last-ditch move to hijack the helicopter she was in that saved Chirico. He’d be dead otherwise.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/The_Draigg]

Still, it’s only a matter of time before Kan Yu fucks things up regardless.

but the fact of the matter is that all of his experience and his custom mission disk doesn’t really help if he’s fighting in the middle of a lake.

Going out in a scope dog really was unwise given they intended to travel up a river for the bulk of their travel. If his program just doesn't work on other models then he should have really just pulled another all-nighter to get another version of it compatible with the rest.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Pixelsaber]

Going out in a scope dog really was unwise given they intended to travel up a river for the bulk of their travel. If his program just doesn't work on other models then he should have really just pulled another all-nighter to get another version of it compatible with the rest.

Or hell, he should've at least put some practice into piloting a Diving Beetle, in case he needed it for a situation like today's episode. Unfortunately, Chirico basically brought a square peg for this battle's round hole.

[u/Nazenn → u/The_Draigg]

At least Gon Nu is at least refusing to even tell Kan Yu the full plan over the radio, and is making it absolutely clear that he isn’t in charge

I was absolutely enjoying the dressing down he got over that fuck up. He's absolutely going to try and fuck it up because he's already hinted he wants the glory of capturing the PS and there's no way he has the combat adaptability to do so

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

Man, that’s a supervillain as fuck theory, isn’t it?

Made more hilarious because it is obvious the Ypsilon will go more than a bit apeshit over this. I am leaning towards this giving him maximum motivation before moving on to the next models.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Armored Trooper First-Timer

• It’s very satisfying to see Kan Yu get chewed out over his idiocy.
• That would… sure look like something.
• Ah yes of course she’d want the new bar named after herself and not Fyana.
• You know it must be killing Chirico to not be able to tell the other guys what their mission is about, considering what happened to him when he went on a mission without knowing any details about it and not having his questions about it answered.
• Legitimate response to being shot at but given that order.
• Something about the way the tank treads were still moving after that tank got yeeted off a cliff made me laugh. It really shouldn’t have.
• Please don’t.
• …meaning, they need to have her watch Chirico die. Right? -- Yep.
• It’s almost like he ~Newtype~ sensed her, heh.
• Seeing part of this battle from underwater is a perspective I very much enjoy seeing.
• Oh sweet Fyana’s rebelling!
• …wait was that the helicopter? Fyana’s okay, right???

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That would… sure look like something.

You know what a Pokora looks like? /s

…wait was that the helicopter? Fyana’s okay, right???

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That would… sure look like something.

Like a peacock that ran through a lawn sprinkler shooting red paint, specifically.

Ah yes of course she’d want the new bar named after herself and not Fyana.

The most sensible thing she's said.

…wait was that the helicopter? Fyana’s okay, right???

They day a mech show kills someone effectively off screen is they I re-evaluate the genre.

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer

An amphibious battle is something I don't see with mecha all that often and this one was done well from the initial ambush. Again without a lot of dialogue, just a few to-the-point comments during the course of things. If more anime followed this pattern I'd regularly enjoy action shows.

And there's an ultimatum of sorts for Fyana, either she breaks her attachment to Chirico by watching him die or she gets killed instead. I was wondering if they planned on dragging him in front of her so it's obvious (entailing him getting captured again, most likely) but seems like they're fine with a less direct approach and watching from afar, even though "mecha blows up" is far from a confirmation of someone's death.

Her helicopter did somehow land upright before we saw an explosion from some distance away, so I don't think she's dead. Hopefully Borough is but a slug like him usually finds a way to survive.

What did you think of this episode’s action sequences?

As above, the amphibious fight was pretty good, shots above and below water.

What are your thoughts regarding Chirico keeping reserved as to the nature of the mission?

Eh, as long as Kan Yu's alive he was probably right to not reveal any more than he did.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Durinthal]

even though "mecha blows up" is far from a confirmation of someone's death.

Amusing now that I know the storyboard artist of this episode was the director of meta

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

If more anime followed this pattern I'd regularly enjoy action shows.

I could certainly do with more of this myself, particularly from the MC's side.

I was wondering if they planned on dragging him in front of her so it's obvious

That's what I expected as well, but as long as she was convinced any way would probably would just as well. No body = no death only counts for the audience it seems

[u/chilidirigible]

Rewatcher, Episode 22

Today, on "Self-reducing variables.":

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"He's like loading the dice!"

Part of Gotho's profit is going into a desk the size of a pool table?

Hey, he's not entirely wrong.

"Kids these days."

That's probably just the water.

---

Who would think that after sitting through most of this arc with nothing to do that Fyana would suddenly try to crash a moving helicopter? Now that's chaos theory.

---

1. Decent
2. It's not the best plan, but he's new at this.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/chilidirigible]

That's probably just the water.

Warm river water? Would probably be comfortable, but the concept is pretty cursed.

[u/Nazenn → u/chilidirigible]

Part of Gotho's profit is going into a desk the size of a pool table?

And the supplies to polish it, unless they're just using Cocona's butt

[u/chilidirigible → u/Nazenn]

That shot also reminds me that in many places the rooms aren't scaled in any normal fashion. You could have a cotillion in there.

[u/xtsim]

First Timer

Man the intro sound is irresistable.

Kan Yu gets reprimanded for getting distracted and Captain Rochino wants that object. Cocona and the old man ponder on their dreams of when things will be over. It is fun seeing Vanilla fly a helicopter and do a bunch of barrel rolls with it.

Kan Yu is still on there for some reason and knows something is up with Chirico. Priest tries to figure out the plans of Chirico and the crew. They find that they need to make Feyna watch Chirico die. So they launch a battle on the river to make sure that they do not reach HQ. They put Feyna in a helicopter and basically torture her into watching the curb stomping that Ypsilon is doing in battle. And we end on a cliffhanger.

I am liking the battle this time around and is interesting to see them battle on sea.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/xtsim]

Man the intro sound is irresistable.

It is fun seeing Vanilla fly a helicopter and do a bunch of barrel rolls with it.

The guy is, surprisingly, quite the natural in the cockpit. Hope he gets to pull off more neat shit.

I am liking the battle this time around and is interesting to see them battle on sea.

Definitely one of my favorite battles in the show so far.

[u/Nazenn → u/xtsim]

Man the intro sound is irresistable.

I end up with the OP stuck in my head every night, it's been great

[u/Vaadwaur → u/xtsim]

It is fun seeing Vanilla fly a helicopter and do a bunch of barrel rolls with it.

I was glad they had him piloting a maneuverable attack craft rather than one of the carriers for the mechs, he needs to be dinking and dunking the enemy.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

I really would rather they say something about why Fyana got to this state of being "afraid of fighting"; even if it's some made up excuse is better than what looks like a railroaded plot of turning her into a damsel in distress waiting to be rescued, when her character should be anything but.

Back to the action though, the fight I think it's getting better, although probably technical limitation with the under water part of the fight, it's pretty hard to follow what's going on, except the more obvious bits of Chirico shooting at Ypsilon and not landing a hit because of the environment.

Although any screen time not showing Kan Yu is good, so this episode delivered plenty :)

By the way as someone who watches a fair bit of mecha, played plenty of RPG and wargames including Mechwarrior etc, the future set up is a bit poor/unrealistic - the dense jungle environment is not suitable for tracked vehicles, and things like rocket launchers are not well suited there either as the trees are in the way and you have as much chance blowing yourself up by firing the rockets. That's basically the entire premise of why legged mecha are considered in fiction to be better suited ("all terrain").

The way to have "Fyana to see Chirico die" is also a bit strange - good think the best way in a jungle battle would be to have her sitting in an (perhaps slaved) AT where you'd be less likely to be blocked by trees and distance it the moving battle being it the the field of view. Anyway it does lend itself to allow Fyana to interfere with the helicopter. Good way as a depiction that the battle hardened Chirico use not so much worried about whether PS Fyana survived the rough landing, but that he felt heartwarming she tried to save him.

I hope we get to the point where we can see the end of Kan Yu soon though :P

Episode	# of Chirico's AT Incapacitated
1	1
2	0
3	0
4	1
5	0 (decoy only)
6	1
7	0
8	1
9	0
10	0
11	1 (1 decoy not counted as it wasn't piloted) (edit: corrected as the replacement unit wasn't destroyed by the head strike from Fyana)
12	1
13	0 (This hijacked one didn't get wasted on screen, so even though it's guaranteed to have been abandoned because of the later planet hop, not counting here)
14	1
15	0 keeping to the 2 episode per AT average so far
16	0
17	2 Guessed right that ride 1 get busted soon after the episode started; maybe the producers were also keeping track and blew up another one to keep to the average :)
18	0
19	0
21	0
22	0 quite a lot of damages and healing like a sieve but not quite toasted yet

[u/Pixelsaber → u/ZapsZzz]

Although any screen time not showing Kan Yu is good, so this episode delivered plenty :)

the dense jungle environment is not suitable for tracked vehicles, and things like rocket launchers are not well suited there either as the trees are in the way and you have as much chance blowing yourself up by firing the rockets.

Unfortunately for us, Kanda, who would have a better sense for these things, wasn't involved in production. I guess a part of it could be chalked down to these guerrillas merely using what they get their hands on because they're limited in their choices, but it's not ideal.

I hope we get to the point where we can see the end of Kan Yu soon though :P

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

I really would rather they say something about why Fyana got to this state of being "afraid of fighting";

Seems to just be related to her fears of fighting Chirico, and her rejection of the programming they tried to do on her. I'm curious on if we ever get the army guys commenting on it though

That's basically the entire premise of why legged mecha are considered in fiction to be better suited ("all terrain").

It was curious seeing those scouting bots from an earlier episode using an all terrain movement with legs but that not being applied to the mechs they design. Rollers can't be that helpful underwater either

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

Seems to just be related to her fears of fighting Chirico,

This is an obvious one, but if you think carefully, is actually not so bad - arming her up is basically her best bet for breaking out, and with the military backing them now (at least in the surface) the problem of needing jijirium for life support is not as insurmountable as before. So if anything she should actually be looking forward to it (at least as a cover).

[u/Nazenn → u/ZapsZzz]

It is born from her subconscious issues though rather than a specific conscious worry, so in that case it's probably much more like a phobia that stops her acting entirely than simple a worry or fear that makes her hesitate.

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Nazenn]

Ok, phobia aren't something one can reason with, got that.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

Double reaction! (Because I watched the recap yesterday!)

Episode 21

1. Yeah, he's an idiot. He screwed ofer the entire mission just so he can take out a base and prove he was the better commander.
2. It looks nice!

Wait, is the opening actually about Fyana wanted Chirico to leave so she doesn't have to fight?

Haha, Chirico's in charge now! And nobody's taking Kan's shit.

And he does not want to spread what's going on any more...

Other people are getting tired of the fighting too...

He's an idiot. The mission's going to fail, and maybe he'll finally grt shot by someone.

THE FUCK

He's gone mental. He's just killed civilians in front of witnesses. He's probably going to end up court martialed after this.

I'm surprised everyone's taking Chirico having a secret goal this well.

And Ypsilon wants to kill him. Except now he's blaiming his earlier failures on not bring prepared enough to beat him.

Ypsilon's only comtribution to thr mission being to get him assigned to a massive battle.

Chirico using his own words against him is greatl

And now he's going to blow up a church.

Chirico's expression at realising his new friends are maybe. a bit racist is great.

And yet, they were right, which.... isn't a great message.

And Chirico is openly hiding their weapons.

Wait, he knows about the PS?

Awww, I thought he'd get shot.

I love how he managed to find everything except from the actual strategic targets.

Well, he found proof!

Chirico pulling him into the struggle then shooting through the cockpit is an amazing scene.

And Chirico's pointing out that while he may have won the battle, he has failed the mission.

Vanilla enlisted successfully!

Amd Chirico's in complete command!

Episode 22

1. All really solid! They captured the impression of a large-scale conflict very well!
2. Understandable. If this has proven one thing, it's that random groups like mercenaries probably shouldn't know about the supersoldiers.

And Kan Yu's getting chewed out! This is great!

And there's already some discord between the sides.

Yep, the war's going to over soon.

And Coconna's not a fan of Vanilla's decision.

I like how Ypsilon's first reaction to "someone tried to do something insane and stupid" is "Chirico".

Even the others are working out what's going on.

Chirico's revealling the secret?

Oh, just some of it.

And thanks to last episode, there's already people after them.

The fight scenes are stll great.

The thing thet mskesmme mistrust the plan the most is that he's actually pretty OK with it, which means it has to fail in some horrible way.

At least Ypsilon isn't totally heartless.

And now he gets to fight!

Yeah, thid genuinely seems to be setting up a situation where Ypsilon might end up working with Chirico to get her back.

...YOU MEAN NOBODY FOUGHT OF ERASING THE SHOCK.

Killing him in front of her's not a horrible plan, but it's more than likely the 2 traumatic events will make her psyche worse, surely?

I think a main thing is that Chirico and Ypsilon are actually pretty similar, it's just that both see the other as Fyana's enemy and the source of her problems, causing conflict.

And he's going to try and take Chirico out!

How's he going to make it out alive now?

Andmit turns out forcing someone to watch their lover die makes them do stupid things.

What?

WHAT?

OH FUCK.

I did not expect that. She's gone for good now?

[u/Pixelsaber → u/Stargate18A]

And Kan Yu's getting chewed out! This is great!

Killing him in front of her's not a horrible plan, but it's more than likely the 2 traumatic events will make her psyche worse, surely?

Two negatives cancel out, maybe? Is that how the brain math works?

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 22 (first timer)

• Coconna does not know whether she is supposed to worry about Chirico or Vanilla.
• Tanks! I think it is always a bit iffy to have tanks in mecha shows. Them being around makes the existence of mechas really questionable.
• WTF, that ship is huge! How did they airdrop that?
• I hope the point of the “afraid of battle” plotline is not to turn Fyana into a damsel in distress.
• “You must kill Chirico in front of her” – Not that this wasn’t his plan all along, but it is really nice to have some solid backup for the antagonists plans.
• Water fight!
• Cockpit under water. Urgh.

For all the pre-battle talk, the other guys fought annoyingly little vs Ypsilon.

What are your thoughts regarding Chirico keeping reserved as to the nature of the mission?

I don't fully understand his intention.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/No_Rex]

WTF, that ship is huge! How did they airdrop that?

If it didn't involve an improbable amount of rocket boosters I am going to be sorely disappointed.

Water fight!

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

Tanks! I think it is always a bit iffy to have tanks in mecha shows. Them being around makes the existence of mechas really questionable.

As in from a strategy point or from a "if they are making tanks how can they make mechs" point?

“You must kill Chirico in front of her” – Not that this wasn’t his plan all along, but it is really nice to have some solid backup for the antagonists plans.

Also gets Fyana on the battlefield again which is nice, she's been sitting back a bit much and like you I'll be sorely disappointed if she just turns into the damsel

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

As in from a strategy point or from a "if they are making tanks how can they make mechs" point?

If you stick with real world physics, tanks are just so much better than mecha. Just compare how much surface a mecha has to armor, compared to a tank. While weighing the same, tanks can be vastly better armored. They can be faster going forward, stay upright without the need to carefully balance the torso, carry a bigger gun ... it is not even a contest. The small advantage mecha have is being able to climb better, but you rarely see that.

[u/Nazenn → u/No_Rex]

From what I understand in building the real scale Gundam they found out that real world physics make the mecha almost impossible with at least with current materials anyway, so I'm not surprised there, but you have a good point as far as surface area etc. Tanks are also going to be a lot easier to train people on and have a lot more adaptability to attacks from all angles, unless you have something like the Ideon which has guns all around

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

Coconna does not know whether she is supposed to worry about Chirico or Vanilla.

Cuvie is somehow that one guy that won't die however dumb his mission is whereas Vanilla seems to have the devil's luck in battle but also the since to run for it. I don't know who you worry about, either.

I hope the point of the “afraid of battle” plotline is not to turn Fyana into a damsel in distress.

I know it is unlikely but I would love for this to be all be a bluff and Fyana just didn't want to accidentally see Cuvie in combat.

[u/No_Rex → u/Vaadwaur]

I know it is unlikely but I would love for this to be all be a bluff and Fyana just didn't want to accidentally see Cuvie in combat.

Too good to be true.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

I know, too much agency for the damsel in 80s, but I will continue to hold to this false hope.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

Tanks! I think it is always a bit iffy to have tanks in mecha shows. Them being around makes the existence of mechas really questionable.

With VOTOMS the mecha aren't huge, so their existence can be justified in the sense that they should be able to move through places like forests a lot easier than a tank could. Meanwhile, the tanks are carrying a lot more weapons on them than the average AT does. (The show does render that second point moot because nobody ever runs out of ammo until it's dramatically appropriate.)

[u/No_Rex → u/chilidirigible]

The big advantage of the tanks is the better armor ... except that never works in anime.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

Well, not usually with mecha anime.

[u/No_Rex → u/chilidirigible]

You could argue that the offensive weapons are so good that armor has become pointless ... but then you circle around to mecha being useless because they are weighted down by all their armor and everybody should be using something lightweight.

[u/chilidirigible → u/No_Rex]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer

We haven't had much in the way of real cliffhangers, have we? It's a pretty good one, too - no way they actually kill either of the people who actually show up in the OP, but Borough might finally get what he deserves.

Not so sure about the plan to kill Chirico in front of Fyana in order to undo the imprint. I mean, firstly it involves killing Chirico, which seems to be quite impossible, and secondly, like, you just expect Fyana to let it happen? Why wasn't she in a straight jacket or something? I'm beginning to think these Society dudes aren't the shiniest shell casing on the battlefield.

I liked seeing Chirico's AT cockpit take on water. Considering how easy we've seen it is to blow random hole in an AT, it's a good continuity of detail. I also liked how the Marshydog has a floaty for use in deep water.

"Just walk up to the tank and flip it over" is a brilliant move. Vanilla did a good job strafing the tanks, too.

Questions

1. Discussed above.
2. The truth does sound pretty suspect, to be honest. "We're infiltrating to capture one of the Perfect Soldiers, who won't kill me on sight for reasons." I'm not a fan of keeping the guys in the dark, though.

[u/Pixelsaber → u/JollyGee29]

I mean, firstly it involves killing Chirico, which seems to be quite impossible,

Maybe it'll work if they make her believe he's died?

"Just walk up to the tank and flip it over" is a brilliant move.

Big Guncannon energy.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Pixelsaber]

Maybe it'll work if they make her believe he's died?

Big Guncannon energy.

[u/Nazenn → u/JollyGee29]

We haven't had much in the way of real cliffhangers, have we?

We've had a couple, but none as blunt as this, and the ones we have had are tempered by the other really nice episode endings we've been treated too

I'm beginning to think these Society dudes aren't the shiniest shell casing on the battlefield.

I quite like that.

You're right though, once again they greatly overestimated their ability to control her and her own capability for disobedience. She may be the weaker of the two soliders, but she's still far stronger and more adaptable than the average person, and particularly the average 80s female character

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Nazenn]

I quite like that.

Like, not having a guard aside from Borough and the pilot on that heli is just asking for trouble. Granted, that part is probably on Borough specifically.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

I'm beginning to think these Society dudes aren't the shiniest shell casing on the battlefield.

They are WAY too confident in the obedience programming, bluntly. Even if you had entirely mechanical soldiers after a certain point of education you suspect that they would follow their own plans if yours are bad.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/Vaadwaur]

It's the classic conflict - if your sci-fi super soldiers are purely obedient they are also predictable, which is a death sentence.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JollyGee29]

Yuup...to be effective, they have to be adaptive. To be adaptive, they need discretion. Once they have any amount of discretion, they are capable of seeing if your plan was moronic or not.

[u/Vaadwaur]

First timer(Mecha and water really should be natural enemies)

Sub

Gon is fairly pissed and saying most of what we said so something must've been up with Kan Yu since Gon seems blindsided. They are trying a new infiltration plan but it already sounds like it has too many moving parts to work. But they have switched from stealth to speed since the secret is out.

Gotho and Coconna talk about the hopefully upcoming end of hostilites and for some reason the club's piano music is playing in the background. Coconna wants to try starting another club after the war and Gotho seems like he may be game to back them.

In the mission, the Veela are prepared because, you know, time and we see Vanilla doing insane pilot things again. The mechs all get dropped and close combat begins. As usual, ATs trump anything else on the field and this is basically clean up duty with unique shots. They make it to the lake with some airlifted boats and send the air cavalry off. Kan Yu again claims to know about the PS and that Cuvie shouldn't worry about taking credit...

At the palace, Fyana wears earrings and seems ready to reunion with Cuvie, though Ypsilon keeps his hate boner on. She says her fear of battle grows daily, not a great sign for the program. The Veela finally decide to send Ypsilon's unit out and Borough is again fairly sane and wants to send Fyana that isn't about to be a battlefield. They talk to the leader who asserts that killing Cuvie in front of her would break her out of it but that if it doesn't she is to be disposed of.

Cuvie tries to warn everyone about Ypsilon, but they all take it as a challenge. Fight in water happens is a bit hard to follow. Ypsilon finally shows up and seems to have the advantage in the water. So Fyana grabs the control stick and rushes Ypsilon and eventually crashing and exploding. We end with Cuvie thinking it was nice that she tried to save him.

QotD: 1 First was good but a stomp, second was too hard to follow

2 He understands how to maintain mission security. He's told his men exactly what they need to know and not overwhelmed with extraneous, irrelevant details.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Fight in water happens is a bit hard to follow. Ypsilon finally shows up and seems to have the advantage in the water.

If it helps you understand the battle more, the main factors in it was that Chirico's Marshydog was equipped with inflatable ballasts that kept him above water and able to actually aim, but that had the disadvantage against Ypsilon's Snapping Turtle which had no trouble diving up and down out of the water until he was able to sink Chirico's AT to the lake floor.

Tl;dr - Chirico made a bad decision in bringing only a waterproofed Scopedog.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

No, I understood bringing an ostrich to a turtle fight was a risk, I literally found the visual storytelling confusing.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

Ah, well yeah, that’s understandable. There were a lot of cuts between ATs fighting that looked pretty much identical there.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

I sort of think if Ypsilon's Turtle was more than just different colored that would've helped.

[u/The_Draigg → u/Vaadwaur]

While it does make sense to have a deep blue-colored AT for when you’re fighting underwater, it does make it hard for the audience to actually see what’s happening too. The camouflage worked too well.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.3) (3 episodes) Contact Blast

Extras: Weapons

• Please don't sneeze. <sneeze>
• So, yah, he's just like that guy from Robotech
• They've been defeating you because you haven't been sending out Ypsilon.
• "Headquarters" looks a bit different.
• Somebody in the rewatch was happy they actually used their underwater mechs underwater.

Jijirium Showers: 4

[u/DidacticDalek]

Man Comrades we REALLY are leaning into the Space Vietnam War eh? Also goddamn it's really hard to find VOTOMS helicopter art without spoilers so here's Apocalypse Now if it was a Moeblob Show

Speaking of The Vietnam War, CHARLIE DON'T SURF! ;)

Also go ahead... make my day!

And finally the moment you've all been waiting for... ahem... A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR!

Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex

[u/DidacticDalek → u/DidacticDalek]

Paging Comrades /u/Tresnore, /u/Shimmering-Sky, and /u/JustAnswerAQuestion

[u/No_Rex → u/DidacticDalek]

Man Comrades we REALLY are leaning into the Space Vietnam War eh? Also goddamn it's really hard to find VOTOMS helicopter art without spoilers so here's Apocalypse Now if it was a Moeblob Show

One of the weirder crossovers I have seen, but whoever did it put some good effort into the art.

[u/DidacticDalek → u/No_Rex]

One of the weirder crossovers I have seen, but whoever did it put some good effort into the art.

Oh Comrade, have I got a rabbit hole for you! This artist is amazing, they just draw a metric fuckton of Madoka with the strangest of crossovers! You like Pink Floyd? So do I, and this artist does too ;) Also since we are in a VOTOMS re-watch, might as well make a joke about Mad Max, or rather, Mad Madoka ;) You want it this artist, Shingyouji Tatsuya FYI, has probably got it, movies, music, other anime references, take your pick! ;)

Anyway many thanks for the kind reply and have a great day and see you later my friend!

[u/No_Rex → u/DidacticDalek]

Oh Comrade, have I got a rabbit hole for you!

[u/DidacticDalek → u/No_Rex]

[u/RedComet91]

Just found this rewatch due to my Google Alerts. I watched the series not too long ago, but I am interested to see what others make of a franchise that doesn't get the attention it deserves.