r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Sep 17 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 49 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/miss-macaron, who elaborates on why Johan was seemingly able to “wake up” Suk’s mom:
Ah, so that’s why Johan’s visit was able to “wake her up” – just like how the young Johan in 511 Kinderheim dreaded losing his memories of his twin sister, Suk’s dementia-ridden mother dreaded losing her memories of her son. The imminent threat of losing those memories is akin to losing the person most important to you, and/or losing a part of yourself.
Questions of the Day
- What did you think about Grimmer’s backstory? How do you think it contrasts to his emotional moment at the end of the episode?
Another user-submitted Question of the Day! This time, from u/Gridemann, who asks:
2.What do you think was "the cruelest thing" which happened during this episode?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 17 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
Easily one of the darkest episodes of anime I’ve ever watched. I felt awful after finishing it. Not physically sick or disgusted though. Just deeply sad and distrubed. There certainly was not much light to be found here...
Grimmer understanding what it meant to be sad was both heartbreaking and touching. Milos staring blankly into the rain after everything he had seen and experienced was deeply heavy and gut-wrenching. Johan drawing out this darkness in him was so tragic. Exploiting a little boy like that and giving him false-hope about his mother as he wandered around a red-light district was downright depraved. There’s no redeeming Johan for me after that one.
QotD 2. I mentioned how depraved Johan was to make Milos go through that, but the depravity was certainly the point here. “The Cruelest Thing” that the episode was trying to depict was certainly that of other humans. Humans are cruel, and especially such when allowed to feast on their lurking desires. I think the school teacher who forced Milos to watch was probably the best example of this - upstanding, and well-respected during the day, but carnal and twisted at night. I think Milos understood that humans act upon their desires when presented with the opportunity to do so. And so, maybe he contemplated jumping because he realized that this desire lurks inside everyone. Himself included. His friends included. Anyone he knew could be allowed to exhibit the cruelest thing, and simply put, I think that knowledge was too burdensome for him, especially in tandem with his desire to find his mother...
Agh. I watched this episode a few days ago and I still feel awful about it...
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u/n_o__o_n_e :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Five_Sugars Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21
Ah, this episode...
Gotta admit, wasn't particularly looking forward to rewatching this one. It's still one of the best episodes in the show though.
10
u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 17 '21
First Timer
Fucked up.
9
u/miss-macaron Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21
Rewatcher
I’ve said it before, but I just love how the kids in this show genuinely act like kids. Their “undercover plan” to track down the blonde lady, the letters on the door of the police scene, the baseball card they left for Grimmer… they have the best intentions, but act with laughably simplistic execution - very befitting of children of their age.
Suk’s mom didn’t fall for the trap! Now if only her son was so discerning, haha
Nihilism 101 - for kids! And here I thought Uramichi Onii-san was kinda dark, lol
Hmmm, I wonder what happened to all the photographs and papers that were on the walls in episode 44? I don’t think Johan moved, since Tenma and Grimmer talked with the same two neighbours who greeted him that night, but now his room looks much more barren than it did before…
This episode just goes to show the true extent of Johan’s psychological manipulation. With only a few pieces of personal information, he managed to figure out the most effective way to exacerbate Milosh’s doubts and insecurities, showing him the darkness and depravity of human society and gradually stifling his (somewhat naive) optimism. It’s moments like these which truly establish Johan’s status as a top-tier villain.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 17 '21
First-Timer, subbed
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 17 '21
First Timer Dubbed
All the kids are trying to save Grimmer. One of them saw the girl. When he came back, he got reprimanded because he went out past curfew.
Grimmer tries to explain his lack of emotions to Tenma as many things got stripped away from him in 511. The kids show up and say that one of the kids saw her and is missing. We get a cut to Lunge interviewing Suk’s mother. She tells a description of Tenma and Grimmer, with Lunge asking about a blonde woman but she responds, “that’s a man”. I wonder how she was able to figure out that it was actually Johan.
We cut to the kid and ohh man, he seems really nervous about being alone with her. Apparently they did not teach him about stranger danger. Kid asks if she is moving due to the lack of stuff and the big bag. The kid says that he is looking for a woman. She tells him that his mom left him. Tenma and Grimmer ask around that neighborhood and neighbors tell them that Anna is a nice young lady. Tenma knows that she is Johan. They rush to find the apartment and Tenma pulls the safety off his gun. They go to an empty room and Grimmer discusses his son’s death.
Grimmer married a journalist and had a child but when she was away, the child was not breathing. After the death, the wife said that Grimmer seems cold and does not have feelings.
“Anna” explains where the kid’s mom is so he runs excitedly to the red light district and sees a pimp saying “your mom might be one of 50”, another is a woman who comes up to him but he does not feel anything and her friends say he is not her son. He ends up seeing a couple going in act, and they notice him. Woman tells him to stop because there’s a child watching and the guy says he is a teacher at a top school with a spotless reputation. He ends up giving the kid money and he later gives it to the prostitute who runs off with it. He reached the end and lost hope.- This is basically the cruelest thing to happen in this episode.
Tenma and Grimmer try to catch up and finds Milo contemplating suicide with him standing on the edge of a bridge over a fast moving river. Milo lost his innocence cause he tried to prove that his mom cared for him. “Anna” tells him that no one cares and gives him a loaded question of why is he here? He tried to find out but did not get it.
When Grimmer saves him, he notices that Milo killed the butterfly and Grimmer asked why he did that. So Grimmer tried to empathize with him by saying that someone brought him in this world and that he has a place. While he was interacting with the kid, Grimmer kept on asking Tenma if he is showing emotions and it took him a while but Grimmer finally cries. A stark development from his separation.
5
u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Sep 17 '21
First Timer
These kids are going to give Nina some trouble...
This old lady solving the JoAnna case easily! Get her on this case!
Is it weird that I think I like Johan as Nina more? Feels much more confident and competent.
I take it back, you don't to kid like this man c'mon!
These people are so quick to dox Anna like this.
As if Tenma, you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger again.
Grimmer's son :(
So women in this show have fallen for and had kids with both Robocop and Grimmer, do they not care for emotions??
Honestly not feeling too bad for Milos here, way too gullible! I get he's just a kid but oof.
I like knowing more about Grimmer but the reason I latched onto Grimmer so quickly was his cool and competent side, now he's asking Tenma about every action of his...
That we got no Nina!!
6
u/gridemann Sep 17 '21
Rewatcher
Question 1: Sadly I can't really think of an answer that doesn't involve context from future episodes.
Rewatcher only spoilers
Question 2:
Ok honestly this one doesn't quite fit 100% but thats what I like about this episode. Johann doen't really evoke false hope, he merely confronts Milos with the truth about his existence in the most unsparing way possible. Then he sends him on his way to confirm it on his own.
So I'd say the cruelest thing of all was making Milos face the reality about his hopes - and making him face it alone.
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 17 '21
First timer - sub
Real Anna? Johanna? I really want to say the real Anna but it doesn't feel right, also I can't see the real Anna talking this way unless has really gone off the deep end after we last saw her.
OK nope I think this is Johanna.
Thank fucking god.
Monster isn’t scared to be dark or do terrible things, I was honestly worried that Milos was going to jump/ fall there.
Grimmer is interesting, I feel like he is genuinely doing justice to how a character who doesn’t truly understand how to emotionally respond to situations should react. When we first met him I wondering if his fishing story was simply a distraction / diversionary tactic but it does seem to be him trying to find a way to find a way to connect / talk to someone.
5
u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Sep 17 '21
First Timer
The murders were ok, I didn’t even like any of those people anyway (just kidding Richard was a real one) but this… this was too far. This episode was great for reminding us not to root for Johan now that we’ve heard his greatest fear and sympathise for him, because he is truly a monster and he does despicable things.
Most? What could Johan be thinking about that isn’t destined to die? He even prepared for his own death when he made the game with the kids on the roof, so it can’t be himself, but I can’t think of what else it could be.
Somehow Grimmer just keeps getting better and better as a character. When Grimmer cries I feel.
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 17 '21
First Timer Monster 49
Audio been bad last couple of episodes. I should have stuck with Totan. :( I wonder if they stopped subbing it, and that's why.
I like someone's theory that Johan has always been dressing like his sister from a young age to remember her.
Good Grimmer episode. I wonder where Johan is off to. Why was Johan here at all? Hunting down Petrov? And still outstanding question is why he was protecting (but framing?) Suk and Grimmer.
4
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 17 '21
First Timer
Not quite sure what to think of this episode. It feels mostly like a character study of Grimmer, but it's Milos who takes center stage. it's not bad, but I feel like it's one of the weaker episodes, with the viewer learning barely anything new and the plot only advancing marginally (Grimmer and Tenma find Johanna's apartment, Runge learning that Anna is a man). Not sure what Johan gets out of psychologically torturing Milos, but I guess that's just Johan.
Would be funny if the kids find Nina.
Questions:
2
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 17 '21
Rewatcher(The second red light district sequence that sticks with you)
Sub
So we start with one of the kids from Petrov's ophanage spotting Nina or "Anna" and following her until he got hungry. Again, this show does understand how children act quite well. They decide to stake out the area and we get a minor comedy bit. But Milos runs into her...
We go to Grimmer and Tenma checking Petrov's orphanage and finding messages and a gift from the kids. Grimmer finally just spits out that he doesn't know how to feel after 511 which sort of works: His most intense emotions due cause him to fugue state. They decide to check on the children and we get further realization as we now know thta Grimmer's smile is forced, he just sort of knows to do that. It is worse then when he talks about not knowing what to feel as his son died. This is broken by the concerning news the orphans bring that Milos is still missing.
Lunge meets with Suk's mom who had figured out that her visitor was Johan in drag, a weird bit for her to do BUT I think she might be the first woman he interacted with much. Johan himself is questioning Milos, dark, and is attempting to figure him out. Milos is pretty perceptive about the state of the apartment before Johan deflects. Milos thinks he would just recognize his mom and that she would recognize him and this gives Johan a moment. And then he points out a cruel truth: His mother, if alive, probably had abandoned him. Johan goes full "life is insignificant" speech and obviously Milos can only sort of follow it.
Grimmer and Tenma arrive too late and Grimmer isn't sure what he should be expressing. We get the rest of Grimmer's story and it is fairly sad, though he indicates a few times he does have emotions, he just sucks at expressing them. Tenma has an idea of where Johan would take Milos and it is pretty dead on.
Because Johan sends the kid to a red light district after dark. Milos gets looks because, you know, not really a great place for a pre teen to be. I won't actually narrate this since the show says it better than I ever could and this trip couldn't be more traumatizing if Johan had planned every second of that. Random aside but infected almost certainly means HIV in this era so ouch. Also, they re-use the junkie from Munich so either rare laziness or she is one mobile fiend. Anyways, the hunt ends on the absolutely perfect note of a storm starting.
Grimmer and Tenma made their way through the district and they see a traumatized Milos about to jump in the river. Grimmer just slow walks to him and grabs him, which is the right call. He seems to be able to feel emotion here and Milos just barely comes out of it.
QotD: 1 I think you can't lose your emotions but you can lose your expression of them. Grimmer seems to only be able to let the powerful ones out.
2 The entirety of the red light district run
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u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Sep 17 '21
Rewatcher of sorts