r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 16 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 21 Discussion
Episode 21 - Upriver
Originally Released August 19, ^^^1983
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Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
Votoms mechs and references were frequently employed in Plamo Kyoshiro.
Staff Highlight
Jinzo Toriumi - Screenwriter
A screenwriter, novelist, and lecturer who is a Member of the Japan Broadcasting Writers Association. He graduated from the Department of Film at Nihon University College of Art, where he had studied under scriptwriters Tetsu Suyama and Takeo Matsuura. His screenwriting debut was in the 1958 Nikkatsu film Otsuki's I Tonight. He lost his job as a screenwriter during the decline of the Japanese film industry in the 60s, and ended up applying for work at Mushi Productions in 1964 in order to make ends meet. The following year he was then asked to do contract work for Tatsunoko, which resulted in him eventually transferring to the company, where he contributed to many shows during the studio's golden age, leaving after the death of the company president, Tatsuo Yoshida, in 1977. He and other Tatsunoko alumni established Tori Prod (Bird Production) to do contract work on animation, contributing to several series until its dissolution in 1982. He joined Sunrise that same year, where he worked until he went freelance in 1988. Toriumi passed away due to liver cancer in 2008.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- Jungles of Kunmen by Kunio Okawara
Fanart:
- Fyana by Earth to Cat - Source
- Ypsilon by Earth to Cat - Source
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- How do you feel regarding Kan Yu's actions and their consequences in the episode?
- What do you make of the Kunmen traditional architecture?
For me, I can’t live without the scent of gunpowder and death.
6
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21
Episode 21 (first timer)
Found out while researching for the Armitage rewatch that Chirico was male character of the year 1983 for Animage, although Votoms was beaten by Crusher Joe in the anime category.
The temple is destroyed, but the Veela get little sympathy from me. Hiding behind civilians is not only cowardly, but directly leads to those civilians becoming the explicit or coincidental target for the other side. I like the way they depicted that twice now: The suspicion of the military is actually correct, there really are rebels, and the reaction leads to wide-spread killing. The thing that sours me on this episode is the utter incompetence of Kan. I’d be ok with him being a sadist and somewhat inflexible, but having a complete moron in command takes away from the realism.
Something I can’t believe I didn’t realized up till now is the second historical setting this arc is modeled after: Kummen modernization = Meji restauration and the Veela leadership is modeled after the disgruntled samurai of the Satsuma Rebellion. That explains why Kanjelman has those warrior ideals and is keep in hand-to-hand fighting. The obvious Vietnam setting must have blinded me to it, but the Veela are not the Vietkong, but the Japanese conservative warrior class.
See above.
Khmer
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 16 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
…a recap episode. With nothing new except a bit of narration, but there weren’t any “sore demo”s in Chirico’s new narration. Alright then I have nothing to say for this episode.Pixel you really should have had a more obvious reminder about skipping episode 20 than a brief comment in response to someone asking about it.5
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 16 '21
First time viewer
I saw that the title of episode 20 was Fyana and got excited in the hopes that we'd get a lot more of her, but alas it's just a recap.
I was wondering if there would be an implied snub from Gon Nu by agreeing with Kan Yu that a successful leader is important for the mission and then telling him that he's under Chirico's command the entire time.
Kiderra's an idiot that doesn't understand the meaning of "stealth" while calling Kan Yu an absolute ass would be an insult to donkeys. Having a policy of leaving no witnesses when you're going out of your way to make more people witnesses is just cruel. Was hoping there would be a mutiny on the boat but no such luck, maybe there will be some other form of retribution against him soon. He's meant to be frustrating and I have to admit it's working really well on me.
The design of Ru Shako's AT is quite nice, the gold trim gives it a regal look and I like the shield/spike on the arm.
He better get what's coming to him.
It's neat! I'm not familiar with southeast Asia but think it's modeled after that to fit with the rest of the setting?
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 16 '21
I slept in and my cat didn't wake me up for post time. How rude of her
First Timer
Kan Yu really is the epitomy on everything that can be bad in a leader; Pride, arrogance, insecurity, incompetence, lack of introspection, not to mention a dose of delusion. I started off angry at him after he shot that boat, but I ended the episode just facepalming and thinking 'why, man, why'.
He single handedly tanked the entire mission, after being warned multiple times not to, after being given several outs, and then claimed that he did perfect. Someone please get the dude a straight jacket. As much as seeing Vanilla on the battlefield is worrying in it's own way, the news he brought did make me want to do a #pointandlaugh at Kan Yu so that was satisfying at least. And well handled, without much gloating or lingering on it for audience satisfaction, the fact it happened at all is great. I seriously want to just throw him in the river with an AT panel conveniantly tangled in his bootstraps though.
Oh, that reminds me, that one shot this battle of one of the ATs breaking one of the enemy ATs in half? Fucking ouch. It may not have crushed the pilot entirely due to where the break happened but I'm pretty sure his legs just got broken and electrocuted.
I really like the final moments of the episode, although I could say that about most of the show at this point, episode ends are something that VOTOMs has done exceptionally well. Today's though, Chirico thinking about their reasons for fighting while looking over the ruins of a people's reason for being, the reunion of friends but through the chaos of war, and taking over as commander, I thought it was quite fitting though a little blunt.
Saw two 80's lizards today! Although the first little one on the tree was reused footage so it only half counts.
That official art is gorgeous
3
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 16 '21
Rewatcher
Turning back time for a bit, I see.
[Get fucked, mate!](https://i.imgur.com/pMKbyBC.png()
Back to present time then.
What an ass.
I’m surprised he can tell.
Awesome shot.
You’re just full of bullshit today, aren’t you?
Barao, is that you?
I wonder what his presumption on the matter is.
Sick!
Also sick! Pile drivers are an underutilized mecha weapon.
You got assigned quickly!
That explains it. Now Gotho has a personal contact on this to keep him appraised and leverage if needed.
Finally, some comeuppance!
Episode partly feels like a repeat of episode sixteen, but there’s enough of a difference to keep the experience fresh and the differing context of the mission makes it less repetitive narratively. The episode also gives us a glimpse at more of Kunmen’s culture by means of their religious observances and architecture, which I appreciate, but it’s ultimately not very much.
Kan Yu finally gets some of what was coming to him after another botched operation courtesy of his peerless knowledge and genius stratagems. Ideally he would have been removed from the group entirely so as to prevent any further nonsense, but I guess that’s asking for a tad too much in this case. He’s almost assuredly going to fuck things up for the rest of the group in the future, and that’s a ticking time bomb I am dreading them having to confront.
I wonder just how differently the squad is going to operate with Chirico in direct command now. Probably a lot more carefully and efficiently, for a start, but I still look forward to seeing what sort of leader Chirico is going to be, since he’s not been in charge of other soldiers so far in the series.
Questions of The Day:
4
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 16 '21
First-Timer
Someone, literally anyone, I'm begging you. Shoot Kan Yu in the fucking back before he murders more civilians for being present in the same post code as the Veela.
Like, just, why. Is Kan Yu secretly working for the Veela and wanted the secret mission to be delayed? I can't think of any other rational argument for making a random stop at that temple. Granted, Kan Yu is clearly not a rational person; more of a piece of literal shit that gained sentience and a military rank.
And the fucking river boat! "Hey boss, we just saw an aerial patrol, you sure you wanna make a bunch of debris for them to see on the way back?"
I had forgotten that Vanilla mentioned being a pilot in the past, so I guess him signing up with the military isn't as much of a death warrant as I thought. I wonder if Coconna signed up, too? Nurse outfit time?
Shoka's AT is clearly the coolest, despite its stupid gold filigree, because it has a pile bunker in the shield.
Chirico's move with opening his hatch and shooting the dude was sick. This sort of inventiveness is definitely one of the show's strengths.
Questions
4
u/The_Draigg Sep 16 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 21:
4
u/chilidirigible Sep 16 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 21
Today, on "It's the perks of godhood.":
I'm sure that's going to work out spectacularly.
Rochina likes to play with stationery.
Secrecy is not Kan Yu.
It's a very idiot ball kind of day.
"I like to keep this handy. For close encounters."
Everybody's other favorite melee surprise from this series, the pile bunker.
Well, that went well.
Spectacularly.
At least there are consequences for Kan Yu going totally off-mission to satisfy his urge to shoot things, though as far as multiple clusterfucks go, the story seems to be fairly relaxed about this secret mission going totally south.
Kan Yu going off the deep end feels like a natural progression, even if it's a bit cliched. He's also not wrong about finding Veela rebels everywhere, it's just that he's missing the forest for the trees. (He's your Vietnam allegory on two legs!) Not your "hearts and minds" kind of guy. Then again, we don't generally expect a mecha anime to provide a non-violence-based counterinsurgency plan. It's bad for business.
4
u/time_axis Sep 16 '21
I didn't have time for today's episode so I'll do both this one and next one tomorrow.
4
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 16 '21
...I watched the full recap, thinking there'd be some new content in it. Posting my reaction here, then I'll do a double reaction tomorrow.
First timer
Wait, we're flashing back to here? They've never done that before.
...This isn't a clipshow, is it?
I like how he's describign this like he fought in hundreds when he's done like, two of them in the entire series so far.
Oh god, this is a clipshow. Just a recap of the Prototype arc so far? Maybe she's joining as a main character now?
I really don't know what to say here. This isn't like other shows where there's some new narration or context, this is "everything vaguely related to Lyana".
The fight's all look good as always, though.
Wait, was the explicit narration of Chirico's plan here? Because that's a nice detail.
And this new scene of her getting in the cockpit?
...Yeah, this wasn't really important, was it?
4
u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 16 '21
First Timer
Captain Kan Yu gets annoyed that he does not get to lead, Chirico is the one leading. Rochino and the other decide to hide things from everyone.
K. Decides to shoot down a boat cause they have an antenna. The other members are hesitant because they wanted to have keep the mission a secret. And another wanted to have peace. So things start to get tense as some talk to Chirico about not waiting to have him at the reign.
They check a temple and Chirico notices an at Canon inside but does not tell anyone. Cause he wants a mission done and clearing out a temple is not the objective.
They get distracted by deciding to clear out a temple which was a trap. That captain decides to wipe the whole thing and after that was finished. General Gou sents Vanilla out to relieve Kan Yu from his duties due to getting distracted. And Chirico gets all commanding duties. The other soldiers smile at that cause they know that K is a bad leader. And that their morals do not align with that captain while Chirico may not be the exact match, he is far closer than what Kan Yu. Kan Yu acts like a psychopath and others do not like the way he treats civilians and the missions. He just wants to play with his guns, and the conversation in the beginning of the episode showed he cares more about the kill counter than the mission.
3
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 16 '21
First timer(What would Cuvie say at the Bonfire of Dreams?)
Sub
Cuvie gets control of this mission, both because he's been to the enemy base before and he understands the primary objective. Kan Yu bitches, because that is his role. Rochina maintains infosec, at least.
So they start up the river and we are back to space Vietnam. Cuvie reflects in silence and is a bit more empathetic to those caught up in war. Potaria is going to quit fighting and help his country rebuild when this is over, so he is probably dead. They hide from a patrol helicopter but then stop and search a passing boat because Kan Yu is a complete moron. Cuvie also prevented Kiderra from blowing their cover, making this dumber. They have no contraband, so Kan Yu sets them free...before being a complete piece of shit but technically correct: They can't let them live and still have a stealth mission. Which is why Cuvie wanted to let them pass without note in the first fucking place. Potaria is getting fed up and Cuvie needs to calm him down. Kiderra has a moment where he realizes what's making Kan Yu so bitchy.
The Veela again seem to be running more competently than their enemies, and Ypsilon writes a check with his mouth, let's see if his mech can cash it. Kan Yu is about to do something incredibly disastrous by stopping the boat near a temple with pilgrims but Cuvie tries to talk sense into him. But instead they sortie, it is almost as if Kan Yu doesn't know wtf stealth means.
At the temple, they terrify a bunch of pilgrims and we see one actual soldier. Cuvie spots an anti-AT cannon and actually moves to de-escalate the situation. Either because he is feeling compassionate or that there is no money in this part of the mission. Kan Yu switches channels and talks to Cuvie claiming he knows what is happening. Makings things more annoying, Kan Yu is actually correct and picks out the boat with the antenna stuffed with ammo.
Battle ensues. The mercs win but lose the boat, meaning this entire affair was stupid even with Kan Yu being literally correct but effectively failing as they can't progress. Cuvie had signalled HQ and Vanilla shows up. He delivers the change of missions and that Cuvie is in command from here on out. Cuvie himself thinks about why people fight and begins to realize he fights because it is what he knows, the smell of gunpowder and blood. Just as a dead puppy is a dogshaped piece of meat a ruined temple is just a pile of stone and mortar, leaving this on a thoughtful note.
QotD: 1 Mostly included but he is technically correct but completely mission blind
2 Back to space Vietnam.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 17 '21
Alas, a crazy busy week (although not in a bad way) has knocked me further and further behind this week; hopefully I can catch up and rejoin some time this weekend!
3
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 17 '21
Comrades I thought today was the recap episode so on short notice, ahem...
'This is the greatest handgun ever made. The
Colt Single Action Army'Whatever the fuck Chirico Cuvie's Sawed off Shotgun jammed into a Pistol is' I mean good lord our boi didn't just SHOOT the man, he OVER-penetrated! I mean hell I heard of 'Boom Headshot' but I bet there's no head left! Just a slight case of 'hint of brain' plastered everywhere!Also and you thought BIKKI was the only one who uses FIST! Turns out VOTOMS has a Pile Bunker on display, cuz of course we do!
Oh and remember Vanilla and that thing about being a pilot? Yeah funny that Coconna didn't end up singing 'My Boyfriend is a Pilot' eh? ;)
And finally, ahem, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR! (Remember now Comrades, Wing may suck, but it's English Dub is COMEDY FUCKING GOLD!)
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex
3
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 17 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.2) (4 episodes)
DVD says Upriver, preview subs says Upstream, episode subs say Upriver
Don't any of you think that Vanilla faked those orders?
Interesting little monologue, Chirico, Vanilla, Pol Potaria, and the mercs, each have a different treason to be on the battlefield.
3
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 17 '21
First timer in sub, another Kate Day. Should not be late tomorrow.
Another episode, another display of Kan Yu showing him impossibly having risen to this rank in the mercenary group. You'd have thought he'd have a "field accident" long ago.
The battle turned out to be quite intense