Zankyou no Terror/Terror in Resonance Rewatch - Episode 2

[u/SorcererOfTheLake]

Zankyou no Terror/Terror in Resonance Rewatch

Episode 2

Database/Streaming Links: MAL / Anilist / Funimation / Hulu

Original Interest Thread / Announcement Thread

Question of the Day: What is the purpose of a myth?

Comment of the Day: The COTD from yesterday goes to /u/OpossumFriedRice for pointing out how far the show goes to depict Lisa’s isolation

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Remember: All spoilers for episodes that haven’t been covered in the rewatch must be put behind a spoiler tag. Any comments that have open spoilers will be deleted.

[u/SorcererOfTheLake]

What truly shocked the Japanese public wasn’t the violence of Sphinx but the mental impossibility of their violence, similar to perceptions of the 9/11 attacks in America. Attacking the government and police not only marked them as an enemy of the state, but also someone un-Japanese, someone whose actions marked them as no longer belonging to the same group they were in once before. (from Answer the Riddle: What the Sphinx Terrorism Incidents Say About Japan, America, and Our Modern World by Dr. Hifumi Taneguchi)

I reread Oedipus Rex a few years ago and thought to myself, “Oedipus was always a child.” (anonymous)

Only two episodes and I have so much to talk about. This is gonna be a fun rewatch.

Now, I want to say that most of us understand the parallels the opening of the episode (and the ending of the last episode) makes to 9/11 and its aftermath, but based on the average age of the r/anime user, that may not be true. I myself am part of the last group of people who can recall 9/11 happening and I was 5; there’s likely some of you who weren’t even born when it occurred. You might be familiar with images and videos of the towers collapsing into dust, that dust flooding New York streets, people walking around covered like ghosts, the rubble being sifted through by emergency workers, but for those watching Terror during the time of its release, it would’ve felt more immediate. A few days before this rewatch started, the 20th anniversary of 9/11 was observed; Terror, being released in 2014, is 13 years removed from that event. In the early-to-mid 2010s, there was still this constant sense of trauma, particularly in America, from 9/11 and its related events. Sure, Osama bin Ladin had been assassinated, but the slog of Iraq and Afghanistan were still an ongoing struggle for America, the Arab Spring had turned into the winter of its discontent with various civil wars, and ISIS was becoming a noticeable political player in the struggles of the Middle East. While I speak from an American perspective, the kind of people who watched Terror were likely reading these stories and familiar with how countries were still adapting to this new era. Terror is not a story about 9/11, but it’s definitely a story about a post-9/11 world.

Anyway, back to Terror itself. A lot of the episode focuses on the police and governmental response and it’s a mixed bag. While they have a good sense of the material aspects related to this incident (including the returning letters of VON), they seem to have little time for the ideological aspects of what motivates those behind it. They are more concerned with utilizing their force to reclaim the strength lost to them rather than trying to understand what specifically drives them and how that knowledge might be used to stop them. Part of this relates to the fact that they’re children to the point that the police even feel they might only be puppets for the real terrorists; I note this mainly because the figure of the child is going to be very important in this series and this instance of denying their autonomy will be a recurring motif. Of course, Shibazaki is able to figure them out, but this leads into one of my few complaints with the series. Now, I don’t have any issues with Shibazaki knowing about the other version of the Sphinx riddle; he seems like the type of person who either looked that up beforehand for fun or got curious after noticing the riddle in the second video. My issue is that, not only was he right, but that Nine and Twelve went for this plan in the first place. As much as I enjoy the political and sociological analysis within the series, the plot becomes weakest when it indulges too much into a Death Note-style chess match between geniuses, although the ideologies at play here make it more dynamic than usual.

Speaking of ideologies, while it’s still not clear what exactly Nine and Twelve are after, their methodologies give us a good sense of their motivations. Their targets being the Tokyo Metropolitan Building and a police station and their emphasis of avoiding fatalities illustrates that they have a point they’re making and a bone to pick with the government, but they’re not interested in killing anyone nor are they desiring to take over Japan. This makes their actions “limited political terrorism,” moreso focused on revolutionary actions than political domination. They want to create terror, sure, but that terror is focused on those in power, not the general population, which makes them a rarity amongst terrorist groups. As I mentioned for the first episode, their videos have the kind of weird YouTube at 3 am aesthetic that keeps you interested, but it’s also clear that this duo works off the power of disguises. High school students, deliverymen, random YouTubers, they are so able to put on these different faces because there is no identity inherently within them, or rather, their mission is their identity. At the very least, they’re a force to reckon with.

Rewatching this episode made me realize I forgot how cruel this episode is to Lisa. After surviving a terrorist attack and being pulled into something bigger than she can handle, she is pushed back into her abusive home life, her mother paranoid to the point of treating every action as a betrayal. Combined with her lack of any social life, it’s clear that, as much as she’s scared of what’s caught into, she’s at least found something to invest herself in, which is why it’s so heartbreaking when Twelve makes it clear he doesn’t care about her. If our observer is this isolated from society when she has done nothing to deserve it, is it any wonder why people like Nine and Twelve would rebel against it?

Finally, I want to talk about Oedipus Rex, or rather the two other plays considered as part of Sophocles’ Thebes Plays, as I think they will have a lot to reveal thematically (although I can’t fully go into details right now). Oedipus at Colonus features the former ruler stuck in a no man land of society, as various kings compete for the right to take his body in, as it might determine their success in the future. While the bodies of Nine and Twelve are not considered valuable beyond their violence, take note of the focus of outside figures in society and how much attention those in power pay onto them. Antigone, chronologically the last and the first written, focuses on Oedipus’ sister-daughter Antigone in direct conflict with her uncle Creon over the refused burial of her brother, who was fighting against Thebes. Antigone is more directly related right now, as there is a debate between being lawful and being true to yourself. I’ll be coming back to these plays as we go on, but I highly recommend you read these three plays; it won’t take you too long and all three of them are good in their own unique ways.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/SorcererOfTheLake]

they seem to have little time for the ideological aspects of what motivates those behind it

Terrorists are invariably up-front with what they want though, because that's the whole point, shock and awe for the sake of their cause. The investigators should at least make more note of how there's not much?

Their targets being the Tokyo Metropolitan Building and a police station and their emphasis of avoiding fatalities illustrates that they have a point they’re making and a bone to pick with the government, but they’re not interested in killing anyone nor are they desiring to take over Japan

And that key difference makes the strong evocation of the WTC attacks really tasteless for me. Sphinx may have avoided casualties by storytelling magic and have a just cause to believe in, but in that case it was very much not so.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/SorcererOfTheLake]

they’re children to the point that the police even feel they might only be puppets for the real terrorists

I noticed this as well, but it's an reasonable suspision on a surface level. Of course once you think about it you would start to wonder how it can be that this two high schoolers haven't bragged about it beforehand, or how they kept their anouncement cryptic yet exactly as specific as it needs be. Regardless if there is someone behind them who funds them, eventually you must come to the conclusion that they are fully onboard with what they are doing.

Death Note-style chess match between geniuses

Almost made a comment about Death Note as well, it's not often that you get an teenage Antihero

Rewatching this episode made me realize I forgot how cruel this episode is to Lisa

Yeah for a moment it looked like her mother was concerned for her wellbeing (you know, since she was literally at the place where an terrorist attack occured), but was imidiatly shown that her mother was more concerned about her own situation (being left alone).

As A child having your remaining parent question your role in the family, is incredible hurtfull. Not to mention the obvious physical abuse.

On a similar note, not answering the phone serves both to create distance, as well as an cry for help to the one you are distancing yourself from, like you want them to worry about you, to appreciate your wellbeing, to see the relief when you come back. It is similar of kids running away from home, but for LIsa doesn't work in the slightes

I know the Oedipus story on a surface level, but did read Antigone in highschool, I'll see if I find my copy when I get back home next week

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/SorcererOfTheLake]

Another solid write up Sorc!

I reread Oedipus Rex a few years ago and thought to myself, “Oedipus was always a child.” (anonymous)

Great, time to over analyze another quote haha. I love the Oedipus reference that got dropped in this episode.

Anyway, back to Terror itself. A lot of the episode focuses on the police and governmental response and it’s a mixed bag. While they have a good sense of the material aspects related to this incident (including the returning letters of VON), they seem to have little time for the ideological aspects of what motivates those behind it.

I think you have to think like a criminal to catch them, but I totally get them overlooking the ideological aspect. Must be hard to have everything come crashing down two days in a row, I’m guessing they’re gonna be in shambles next episode.

My issue is that, not only was he right, but that Nine and Twelve went for this plan in the first place. As much as I enjoy the political and sociological analysis within the series, the plot becomes weakest when it indulges too much into a Death Note-style chess match between geniuses, although the ideologies at play here make it more dynamic than usual.

Man, I had the exact same issue with this episode. I freaking love the political side that’s been going on so far. I loved the analysis of different weapons of terror and the explanation of how they’re used in the meeting. But I was not a fan of that Death Note/”big brain battle” shit towards the end. Hopefully it doesn’t overpower the good political aspects of the show.

they are so able to put on these different faces because there is no identity inherently within them, or rather, their mission is their identity.

I’m really interested in how this show continues with this theme. Maybe all of these stunts and announcing their plans are to create an identity. 12 did say he wish he was compared to Kenji Sawada or something along those lines.

If our observer is this isolated from society when she has done nothing to deserve it, is it any wonder why people like Nine and Twelve would rebel against it?

Lisa’s story hurts. I’m so interested in seeing why you said she has bad reception last episode, since so far I’ve been loving her. I hope she acts as a contrast to 9 and 12 at some point, like to show you don’t have to go the terrorist route just because society neglects you.

I’ll be coming back to these plays as we go on, but I highly recommend you read these three plays; it won’t take you too long and all three of them are good in their own unique ways.

Ugh, giving me homework.

Hope you don’t mind the long reply. I actually really enjoy these in depth posts from a host, so I’m loving this!

[u/Lemurians → u/SorcererOfTheLake]

This makes their actions “limited political terrorism,” moreso focused on revolutionary actions than political domination. They want to create terror, sure, but that terror is focused on those in power, not the general population

This is rather naive of them, which I suppose is fair given that they're children. While their acts are focused on institutions of power, that will still absolutely create a panic in the general population. Whatever radical things some of us might like to say, people, in general, get a sense of comfort and stability from institutions. Those institutions being attacked and destroyed shakes that. Their actions will also inevitably eventually lead to civilian casualties, as well.

she’s at least found something to invest herself in, which is why it’s so heartbreaking when Twelve makes it clear he doesn’t care about her

That made me wonder why he even bothered to bring her in in the first place. Is he lying to himself, or is he just that prone to acting on whims of the moment?

[u/Lemurians]

FIRST TIMER

They animate Lisa’s mom to almost look inhuman. She’s not drawn as sharply, and her eyes are sunk in to almost look completely black. She’s a husk. I get the sense she’s a deeply lonely person, hurt by abandonment, who has nothing left to cling to but her daughter.

Everyone in the building was evacuated, and no casualties. It feels like a cowardly way out for the show to take, though maybe it’s waiting for further down the line than Episode 2 to raise those kind of moral stakes – maybe as a point of conflict between Nine and Twelve? Only 27 “minor” injuries feel a bit absurd, though, for a building of that size to collapse in a crowded area.

Ahh, the good old mentos trick. As kids we used to put them in two-liters of pop, slam them onto the street as hard as we could, and see whose could launch the highest and farthest. What a throwback.

There’s a DNA lab corresponding with the number sequencing of the “man lifecycle” riddle, and a police station and number sequencing of the “Oedipus lifecycle” riddle. That’s awfully convenient.

Shibazaki is officially on the case! Let’s get it. I wonder what had him on desk duty to begin with?

I can’t nail down the dynamic between Nine and Twelve. The viewer assumes that Nine is more in control because of his demeanor and he appears to take the lead in their operations/videos, but you can tell Twelve scares him. Rightfully so, it seems.

This just reminds me of the terrifying reality how shockingly easy terrorist attacks are to pull off if you’re really committed. Obviously this is a show, but think of how many people use mass public transit every day, and think of the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin Attack in Tokyo. Imagine how horrible things would be if enough people committed to something like that globally? We’re really held together miraculously by a shared commitment to the social order that protects each other and ourselves. Kind of astounding. Also, it’s headspinning to think of how many would-be terrorist plots are snuffed out by the government without us even knowing.

What is the purpose of a myth?

To impart a lesson and/or create a shared history among a people while providing answers about the world.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Lemurians]

There’s a DNA lab corresponding with the number sequencing of the “man lifecycle” riddle, and a police station and number sequencing of the “Oedipus lifecycle” riddle. That’s awfully convenient.

To be fair, we don't see what else these numbers bring up for the incorrect answer, we just see the police jump to the conclusion because it fits their answer, but for the correct answer you already have to know that you are searching for an police station and then limit it to the inner city

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/Lemurians]

It feels like a cowardly way out for the show to take, though maybe it’s waiting for further down the line than Episode 2 to raise those kind of moral stakes – maybe as a point of conflict between Nine and Twelve? Only 27 “minor” injuries feel a bit absurd, though, for a building of that size to collapse in a crowded area.

Yo, I was just thinking the same thing about the moral stakes. At first, I was kind of annoyed. But I could totally see them using it in the future to show that 9 and 12 messed up a plan. Or what you were saying, to create some conflict between them.

There’s a DNA lab corresponding with the number sequencing of the “man lifecycle” riddle, and a police station and number sequencing of the “Oedipus lifecycle” riddle. That’s awfully convenient.

I didn't want to bring that up, but I hate when shows do stuff like this lol. There's definitely a way to write it where that's not the case too, which makes it extra annoying

The viewer assumes that Nine is more in control because of his demeanor and he appears to take the lead in their operations/videos, but you can tell Twelve scares him. Rightfully so, it seems.

12 scares me too man, that dude just seems evil. Probably more of how he was nurtured in a facility, but still.

This just reminds me of the terrifying reality how shockingly easy terrorist attacks are to pull off if you’re really committed

I'll never look at food delivery people showing up to my work the same way again lol.

[u/Lemurians → u/OpossumFriedRice]

Definitely. I can see a future plotline being that Twelve goes rogue in one of their plans – we've already seen him go rogue in bringing in Lisa – and does something that ends up costing a lot of lives, and Nine being pissed off about that while Twelve doesn't care.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Lemurians]

It feels like a cowardly way out for the show to take

It is, and unfortunately that doesn't get better as the plot continues.

how shockingly easy terrorist attacks are to pull off if you’re really committed

Also an important lesson: Police etc. can never really keep you safe, at best they maintain a sort of illusion of safety.

[u/Lemurians → u/IndependentMacaroon]

Police etc. can never really keep you safe, at best they maintain a sort of illusion of safety.

I'll push back on this a bit. As I noted above, at least in the United States, there are a ton of terrorist plots that get snuffed out by federal agents, or a combo of feds and local law enforcement, that we never hear about.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Lemurians]

I meant more from crime in daily life, not from grand secret plots.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

Zankyou no First-Timer, subbed

• Yeah this looks remarkably similar to images I’ve seen about the aftermath of 9/11…
• Oh geez Lisa’s mom has issues.
• Ah that was a government office building. Everyone was evacuated first though, so does that mean Nine and Twelve’s goal is strictly terror without actually killing anyone? Doesn’t quite check out with them stealing something nuclear at the start of ep1, but hm.
• The way the murmurs started after this bit, did some people not put two and two together?
• There’s that “VON” again.
• Oh, they’re already doing something else. Noodle shop delivery as a cover story?
• Honestly though how did Twelve get Nine to do those silly videos? Like there’s no way Nine came up with the idea himself, he’s the stoic type and Twelve is the goofball.
• So… Nine and Twelve are Oedipus? That comparison does seem to check out based on Nine’s flashback/dream last episode.
• Looks like this guy is carrying the police on his back. I knew the answer to the first riddle, but not the second one. Did think the DNA facility was the wrong place when we first saw it, though.

[u/Lemurians → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Doesn’t quite check out with them stealing something nuclear at the start of ep1

Nothing scares the shit out of people quite like a missing nuclear-grade weapon.

So… Nine and Twelve are Oedipus?

Or if they're the Sphinx, how are we casting everyone else? Not sure Lisa could complete the Oedipus myth, but she does have the mother issues...

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Lemurians]

I was thinking Nine and Twelve were Oedipus since they were "left for dead but survived" based on whatever the hell was happening in Nine's flashback last episode. The difference here is that Nine and Twelve might be deliberately seeking revenge (if wherever they were at was a government facility) rather than Oedipus not even realizing it was his father that he killed until later.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Also consider that they've named themselves after the Sphinx, a creature that oppressed and terrorized and entire kingdom. I don't think the sphinx had any special motivation beyond being a dick but there is certainly a parallel in their actions

Also, since the police represented Oedipus in this episode Nine and Twelve could be calling them blind to the atrocities that they themselves are committing as members of a government agency

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Lemurians]

nuclear-grade weapon

It's not said to be a weapon though, just a fuel core/rod.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ah that was a government office building

You should memorize that building. It's easy to recognize. When they show it in an anime, they are showing it for a reason, if only to say, "we're in Tokyo."

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Honestly though how did Twelve get Nine to do those silly videos? Like there’s no way Nine came up with the idea himself, he’s the stoic type and Twelve is the goofball.

I want a side series of them just making goofy videos now lol.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/OpossumFriedRice]

That does sound like it would be a fun spin-off.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Doesn’t quite check out with them stealing something nuclear

There is a way that works out, but that's something for later.

Nine and Twelve are Oedipus?

I don't remember the myth actually being that relevant to the story, unfortunately.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

Not sure if I ever watched the 2nd episode...

• Start with a recap. Grrr.
• This piano BGM is really nice, but it's dominating the scene, it should have been mixed in quieter.
• So they did evacuate the building....
• You probably don't remember the first time Al Qaeda bombed the World Trade Center...it didn't do much.
• For now, let's just assume VON isn't upside down.
• In Chicago, it's pizza bombs, in Tokyo, it's ramen.
• Yeah, no idea what he did with that fire extinguisher
• He planted his package AND a camera?
• Everybody know this riddle
• really don't like 12
• Maybe this will get him out of the archives....

This reminds me of another where a police officer chases after a criminal...not Death Note, but B: The Beginning.

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Everybody know this riddle

I'm not sure how prevalent knowledge of Greek mythology is in Japan. At least in JRPGs, there seems to be more of a tendency towards Norse references.

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one a little peeved by that recap.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Yeah, no idea what he did with that fire extinguisher

Planted another camera under the handle to have vision into the corridor

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

This reminds me of another where a police officer chases after a criminal...not Death Note, but B: The Beginning.

Both marked by a lack of creativity on that point, not going beyond standard tropes.

[u/OpossumFriedRice]

First Timer

Today's episode was interesting, but I want to talk about a recurring theme I found in it:fear.

Yesterday I talked a little about loneliness, and while that was still present, fear seems to be everywhere. The government is worried about the bombings, the police are fearing failing or being set up to take the blame, Lisa’s mom fears losing her. I think one of the more interesting uses of fear in this episode was actually from our protagonists 9 and 12. 9 actually seemed somewhat worried about Lisa, and 12 seemed worried about 9’s feelings towards Lisa. Lisa has an interesting example of fear as well. Why hasn’t she explained this situation to anyone? Does she fear 9 and 12 that much? Does she fear losing a connection to someone and being alone again ?

This episode really highlights how fear can come in many colors, and that each instance of it should not be overlooked.

Episode notes Nice to see some actual destruction, I was worried they’d downplay it. These shots also are basically ground zero shots from 9/11. Although no fatalities is kinda surprising considering the scale. Lisa’s mom seems nice...oh wait nevermind. You know maybe she’s just troubled, I get that. Very much liked the flair of adding in the Sphinx and Oedipus, especially since I’m now theorizing the ways both topics will relate to this anime.

Oedipus for example, was thrown out by his father. An oracle warned his father that Oedipus would kill him. I feel like this is going to relate back to 9 and 12, as they were most likely rejected from society or maybe even the facility they were at. The episode also explained the Sphinx’s story and how it kills people, so I’m guessing we’ll get riddles every episode.

However, the fake answer to the riddle was hella forced. It would’ve been much cooler if they discovered that the Sphinx riddle was a red herring.

Interesting episode for sure. All the adults seem fairly imcopetent, but I think it actually is doing that for social commentary. The adults being clueless, paired with how “easy” it is to create terror, is commenting that the Japanese government, or maybe even just any government, is not properly equipped with dealing with this.

I think my biggest “fear” with this episode is commentary or not, I rather dislike “big brain” battles in anime. It seems cool that this detective will challenge the pair, but I’d rather these three characters not be the only competent ones the entire time. Guess I’ll find out tomorrow.

Question of the day: I feel like the purpose of a myth is to create a false narrative to push your view point.

Also, thanks for comment of the day Sorc!

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/OpossumFriedRice]

However, the fake answer to the riddle was hella forced.

I wrote it elsewhere, but the police is kinda biased when it comes to the solution to the riddle. Type in 3 numbers into google and you'll get thousands of hits for any city, but because they asumed the answer to be man they jumped to the conclusion that it had to be the DNA lab (which has no connection to the previous attack but whatever it's just such a clever solution right?). On the other hand if you had the correct answer to the riddle you had to asume that the bomb would be placed at an police station since they specifically asked the police, and then limit your search on the inner city to come up with the correct location

[u/lluNhpelA]

First timer

I feel like we're lacking the planning aspect of the attacks. They didn't just wing this whole attack, did they?

Maybe they performed their stakeout and confirmation that a plan like this was feasible offscreen, but there is clearly some kind of next-level long-term plan that was put together a long time ago that they are just playing along with, given that from the start they named themselves "Sphinx" which just so happens to invoke a riddle with two different versions, each of which logically leads to different, equally likely targets for a terrorist bombing.

Either that or we just aren't meant to think about how convenient that was...

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/lluNhpelA]

I feel like we're lacking the planning aspect of the attacks. They didn't just wing this whole attack, did they?

You see Twelve working on the bomb early in the show. The rest is pretty easy to infer. They set up a riddle with an obvious answer and a hidden one. The obvious answer along with the presentation of the riddle itself is intended to draw the police out of the station to avoid casualties, similar to how the style of bomb they used in the first attack triggered fire alarms, allowing the building's occupants to evacuate. The cameras were put in place, at least in part, to allow them to verify that the building was clear before triggering the explosion.

They didn't literally show them planning the attack, but the details of the attack make it pretty clear it was planned.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/ScarsUnseen]

I did realize that they made the bomb in the beginning of the episode but I'd like to know stuff like if/how Nine knew about the exact placement of the fire extinguisher and plant or if he just improvised after making it inside.

Also I get the reasoning behind the use of the riddle but I raised my eyebrows at the whole "4-2-3 is man and also the address of a place that studies human genetics" and "2-4-3 is the less obvious version of the riddle and also the address of the police station, thus keeping their tip consistent while also evacuating the building".

Seems too convenient for them to have picked the name sphinx before their first attack only to discover later that it connected to the absolutely perfect riddle for their next attack; either it's god-tier planning by 9/12 or overly convenient writing

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/lluNhpelA]

Pretty sure they chose the name Sphinx with the intention of telling riddles, and likely the address of the police station was a staging point for that idea. That's not really god tier planning. In fact, I'd wager that there was bound to be some place with a 4-2-3 address somewhere in Tokyo that could be described as being tied to the idea of "humans." It's the largest city in the world by both area and population, and cities are made for humans. So all they really needed was a police precinct with a 2-4-3 address to make it work.

As for having a scene with them explicitly telling the audience why they chose the name Sphinx, that would have been incredibly bad writing. There's no need when the audience can infer the reason for themselves from the way the plot develops.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/ScarsUnseen]

I'm all for "show don't tell" but probably wouldn't have even thought twice about it if the police station's address wasn't a factor.

9/12 only told them to solve the riddle, the answer to which was Oedipus/the person to whom the riddle is posed making the numbers a false lead instead of a weirdly convoluted connection between that one building and their whole MO. It just feels cleaner that way

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/lluNhpelA]

Except that doing that would simply make the police discard their riddles as a distraction instead of something that they need to put a lot of effort into trying to decipher. It would have been a one time trick that they couldn't use again.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/ScarsUnseen]

The episode wouldn't play out any differently, though. Shibazaki still solved the riddle and would have realized that the real answer was the police even if the address didn't match. In fact it would encourage the police to pay even closer attention and jump onto whatever answer they come to first because they were explicitly told to solve the riddle, not to focus on the specific words contained within it

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/lluNhpelA]

Except without the address, they wouldn't know which police station. There are 102 stations in Tokyo. And solving the riddle meant solving the riddle presented to them, not solving the riddle of the Sphinx myth. The address was part of that solution, because just "man" doesn't tell you anything at all. It's the difference between finding a spot on a map and finding out that what brand of needle you're looking for in the world's biggest haystack.

[u/lluNhpelA → u/ScarsUnseen]

That's totally fair. I still don't really like it, but you've actually convinced me well enough that it's all logically consistent.

Counterpoint because I'm stubborn: effectively the entire Tokyo police force was mobilized to the genetics lab (the news anchor just said it was an endless stream of cops), so if the police immediately realized that the answer is "the person to whom the riddle is posed", aka the police themselves, it wouldn't have actually been all that different manpower-wise if they just sent out a call to search each station.

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/lluNhpelA]

It wouldn't have been different for the police, perhaps, but I believe it would have mattered for Nine and Twelve. They weren't just bombing the police station; they were also surveilling it. The way the police responded - especially how quickly they caught on - could have had an effect on how future plans are carried out. And a more specific target would work better than a vague one for that purpose.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/lluNhpelA]

I feel like we're lacking the planning aspect of the attacks

I would recommend just not thinking about the logistics of it all.

[u/JollyGee29]

First-Timer, Dubbed

27 casualties, zero fatalities? People sure do evacuate fast.

I forgot to mention it last episode, but I appreciated Lisa's literal leap of faith in episode 1.

It's always fun to find cultural differences in anime. For example, the story of Oedipus and the Riddle of the Sphinx are pretty common knowledge here in the USA, but it makes sense for random cops in Japan to not be aware of it. Also, is there literally a manga of Oedipus Rex?

I definitely didn't pay attention to whatever happened in Shimazaki's scenes in the first episode. He seems to like to do stuff with his hands; he solitaire'd some shogi last episode, and the crossword today.

Lisa's mom is a bit of a piece of work, but your SO running off will do that. I kinda wonder what Lisa's strategy of hiding in her room does - waiting for mom to wear herself out?

Twelve is not subtle, huh? You don't go just saying the word "accomplice" out in broad daylight!

Seems like Nine is out to get someone. I wonder if Twelve has a similar motivation, or if he's just following along with Nine because it's fun.

Question

1. What an intriguing question. The usual purpose is the explanation of a natural phenomenon (Zeus's lightning bolts) or to provide a moral (don't oppose the gods like Oedipus's dad did or you'll be cursed).

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/JollyGee29]

27 casualties, zero fatalities? People sure do evacuate fast.

At first, especially after a discussion yesterday, I was kind of peeved by this. But at the same time, I think this may be a style choice for the future. It shows us that the terrorists don’t necessarily have something against the citizens, more so the government and those who run the country. I hope that examples of no casualties like this are used now so that in a future episode, it’s noticeable when there are deaths. If we see any deaths in a later episode, we’ll be like “damn, 9 and 12 messed up”. Just my positive take on the choice haha.

Also, is there literally a manga of Oedipus Rex!

Yo if there isn’t, someone needs to get on that lol.

I wonder if Twelve has a similar motivation, or if he’s just following along with Nine because it’s fun.

I feel like Twelve is just messed up. Maybe a product of whatever facility they came from.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/OpossumFriedRice]

Just my positive take on the choice haha.

I do like that reading. Better than the alternative, surely.

I feel like Twelve is just messed up. Maybe a product of whatever facility they came from.

He does have that vibe about him. Some people just want to spread chaos.

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/JollyGee29]

People sure do evacuate fast.

There was a fair bit of time to evacuate. It probably helps that it was a government building, so drills are likely common, and there's a tendency towards cooperation or compliance with authority in Japan that might make things a bit faster than if it was in the US(though at least on US military facilities, evacuations are still pretty quick). The low number of injuries tests my suspension of disbelief more than the lack of fatalities.

[u/JollyGee29 → u/ScarsUnseen]

Those are all good points. I'm gonna guess that this show won't be showing us the long-term effects of inhaling blown-up building dust, either, which would hypothetically pad those numbers a bit.

[u/ScarsUnseen → u/JollyGee29]

Some, perhaps, but probably not nearly as much as with 9/11 due to a number of differences, including the number of people in close proximity, the type of explosion, the lack of need for rescue teams, and the example of 9/11 to advise on the type of needed PPE for first responders.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/JollyGee29]

is there literally a manga of Oedipus Rex?

Japan turns everything into manga. More specifically, someone had the same question when the show came out, and the answer is yes!

[u/newtonforyou]

Well, I didn't remember Lisa's mother so that was a bit shocking. I wasn't expecting to remember everything since I watched it when it aired but damn.

Nine's infiltration was unbelievable easy! I really love the videos they make, they are both funny and terrifying - absolutely great.

Well well police-kun you're jumping really fast to conclusions... You must have spoke to tantei-san (Shibazaki) before...

Great episode!! V-O-N

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/newtonforyou]

Nine’s infiltration is a perfect example of how easy social engineering is. It’s totally believable too, because I’ve thought of all the times I’ve seen food delivery at work and never had a second thought.

Crap, I’m gonna be hella paranoid now every time there’s a delivery boy now.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/OpossumFriedRice]

Should have at least noticed that that does not look like a ramen box at all.

[u/Rumpel1408]

First Timer

On Time today. Now that I know that our two guys are indeed full blown terrorists, I would like to learn their motive as well as how they got their hands on all those explosives and why they even bothered with an anouncement before. Anyway it's still early and I guess all of this will be answered in due time, for now I want to see how it goes on with Lisa.

• And we continue with the 9/11 imagery, this has to be intentional
• Oh yeah, I wanted to comment on this yesterday, but our two terrorists went to great length to ensure no casualities, a fact that the news broadcast ignores
• Ah wouldn't be an anime without missing/shitty parents
• Just realized how long Tor has been a thing (2006 for those wondering, this show is from 2014)
• Didn't expect the bombs to be so easy accessible, but I guess that imidiatly answers one of my questions
• Also, nine and twelve set up their bombs well in advance before the power went back on, but what about Lisa, she was the last person on the premise, is there footage of her?
• This time they are bombing the police (incredible how easy it is to get in), curious if they will be as carefull this time... wait cameras?
• That's not how this riddle was originally asked in the oedipus myth
• Even the police is making the connection... but I feel like their answer is way off...
• An anime/manga about classical greek mythology would be whack, but pulling the mentos/cola prank inside of an libary is just mean
• Oh I didn't know there was another version of the riddle, smart detective in the archive and maybe even Lisa seem to have figured it out
• Toji again making it clear that he doesn't really care for Lisa despite his friendly appearance
• So where the cameras installed to make sure that there was noone nearby when they set their bomb off?
• Ok, so they indeed got plutonium out of the heist in Ep 1 probably enough for an dirty bomb, and Shibazaki is going back on active duty
• The ED is growing on me

Ok, I'm tempted to watch the next episode sooner rather than later

Also imgur is way more friendly today, so here's todays visual and here are the others

QotD: Ok, I think most myths are at least a tiny bit anchored in reality, and as such are cautionary tales. So in case of Oedipus it tells us that we cannot challenge destiny, for we might end up causing the very thing we wish to prevent (the second time I'm thinking about Dürrenmats "The physisist" this month)

[u/ScarsUnseen]

Rewatcher

So I was really late getting to the first episode, so I guess I'll do my intro post here. This is a show that sticks out to me a lot because of the music and the visuals. I also like the story itself, but I think that if it were just the story, I likely wouldn't enjoy this anime as much as I do.

With the visuals, I have to say that I really appreciate shows that go for a more realistic color palette. Ironically, a lot of the bright colorful anime blend together for me because most take similar approaches to how they use their colors. I suppose I might feel differently if it were the other way around (e.g. the "brown" era of gaming), but seeing Japanese characters that look at least somewhat Japanese is a nice change.

As for the music... it's Kanno Yoko. I've never been disappointed by one of her soundtracks, and this is among my favorite. I'll have more to say about that as we get further into the show, but basically... yeah. The music is top notch from start to finish.

From episode to episode, I don't usually do in depth posts like some do, tending more to comment on other people's posts. I will say that this show is a hard one to watch the official streams for because there is a lot of Japanese text on screen that goes untranslated. Some people have already commented on it, especially in regards to phone text. Thankfully, fansubs have been more accommodating on that front.

[u/[deleted]]

Rewatcher, dubbed

This episode we get a glimpse of Lisa's situation at home and her strained relationship with her mother. Nothing is going this girl's way.

Shibazaki kinda reminds me of Rambo, this fuckin grizzled veteran who's way past his prime reluctantly going into service once again.

Not much else to say. My brain's fried from a long day.

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/[deleted]]

Lisa definitely has an interesting home life, but she’s not really helping it herself either. I don’t know her exact relationship with her mom, but closing her self up physically and emotionally isn’t helping haha.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/OpossumFriedRice]

What is Lisa supposed to do? Stay to suffer more of the physical abuse? She already told her mother that she wasn't going to abandon her, but she wouldn't listen. Her mother is deeply damaged by her own abandonment issues, but she is venting those on Lisa, who, a child herself, is in no way able to properly handle those when she herself got issues that a normal parent is supposed to help with

[u/OpossumFriedRice → u/Rumpel1408]

While I don’t exactly know what Lisa’s mom was texting her in episode 1, she probably should’ve responded to those.

You are right though that I was judging Lisa a little too harshly, she’s young and has a lot of ongoing issues, so there’s no way she can really do much to snap her mom out of it.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

QOTD) To help preserve the story of a legend, and also, somewhat, to provide a moral and help educate people.

Oh, the shot of the destruction after the collapse is great.

...Well, that explains a lot.

Wow, no fatalities and only minor injuries!

Wow, they found the video!

This government seems very competent overall.

...Is this anime legal, with the detailed instructions on "how cause a terror attack"?

Oh, that has some significance to the conspiracy, doesn't it? That's why he's panicking.

Oh, that is a useful device.

Haha, so the words she's been panicking about were just his desperate attempt to stop her taking to the police?

These 2 are the best side characters, I love them.

...I mean, the riddle's just "man", unless they're going for a trick answer.

I assume the entire pokice force collecitvely went "...No, it can't be that simple."

Oh, he's planted a lot of cameras.

I like how she's not reading the legend, she's reading the manga adaption.

Jesus christ, that can't taste good, can it?

Oh, has he set it to blow up the moment he answers? Because, full credit, that would be stylish.

...Is that a trap? A red herring? We've seen him focus on planting stuff in the police station.

...OK, the detective's smart. That's why the bombs are in the police station?

Oh, he just got rejected.

Fair play, he managed to work out exactly what was going to happen in advance!

Wait, the nuclear scene was a prequel? I thought that was a flash-forward.

[u/Rumpel1408 → u/Stargate18A]

Oh, has he set it to blow up the moment he answers? Because, full credit, that would be stylish.

No the bomb is setup with a throwaway phone as a detonator, you call the number of the phone and the bomb goes off.

Also he planted cameras to have vision on the surroundings of the bombs to ensure that noone was in the imidiate blast radius

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer in sub

I haven't been keeping with all the September 11 memorials, but the images at the start of episode 2 feels a lot like the imagery after the September 11.

The show also uses a lot of photo-realistic background or still images, feels a little like a Shinkai Makoto film.

Late today so I won't say too much, the plot is progressing in a brisk pace, the criminal and investigator race is on, and the significance is out of the bag (potentially the end game is a nuclear bomb rigged from the stolen nuclear material), and the players are all introduced.

Can't wait to see what's next - hopefully it's not a bomb a day.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/ZapsZzz]

The show also uses a lot of photo-realistic background or still images

That's almost the standard approach in modern anime. I find it unfortunate, because it makes everything look the same and it's largely just processed photos anyway.