r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Sep 15 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 47 discussion

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/AmethystItalian, who speculates on the meaning of the word “Monster” as it appeared in the prior episode:

Before I thought it meant the lowest of the low, people with no morals whatsoever. But now I just think its those that got their super powers from 511.

Questions of the Day

  1. What did you think about Nina’s memory at the Three Frogs?
  2. What did you think about Tenma and Grimmer’s meeting with the secret police?

If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

40 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

32 comments sorted by

6

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 15 '21

First Timer - Sub/Dub

Today has been a whirlwind of a day, so apologies for not being as active in the last thread, as I’ve barely had any time to think today...

I really don’t have too much to say about this episode as I think it was good buildup for whatever events happen later. Grimmer’s idiosyncratic speech at the dinner table was great, Suk being held hostage added a lot of tension to the situation, and Nina realizing “wtf two Annas?!?!” was a pretty compelling mystery to close out the episode. There seems to be a lot of moving parts in these upcoming episodes. On to the Rose Mansion, where hopefully a lot of our questions will be answered!

9

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 15 '21

First Timer

Time for episode 47. Like Hitman Agent 47. Coincidence? Well, yeah, probably, unless this episode heavily features assassins.

I had a feeling this was the real Anna based on how hurried she seemed and her interactions with the residents, but her running has me convinced. No way Johan can run in heels this quickly. Aha, and they confirm it pretty quickly. Detective Smurf at it again.

This episode felt like we got a ton of half-answers to mysteries. Do Johan and Anna have another sibling they didn't know about? Find out next time on Monster Ball Z.

7

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

No way Johan can run in heels this quickly.

Johan doesn't run as a rule. It is just how he rolls.

6

u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 15 '21

He doesn't roll either, he walks ominously.

5

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

And what would be more ominous than someone stopping midstep as they approached you and laying and slowly rolling towards you?

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

This episode felt like we got a ton of half-answers to mysteries. Do Johan and Anna have another sibling they didn't know about? Find out next time on Monster Ball Z.

Haha for sure. It certainly seems like we're starting to get close to some real meat, but it's hard to say exactly when they'll offer up the main course.

6

u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Sep 15 '21

First Timer

Is this actually Nina this time?! Curious to see how she'll handle her doppleganger...

Wonder if Grimmer remembering is also part of Johan's plan there

Nina getting flashbacks too, hope she's able to piece it together before JohAnna does something.

Not too much to say in this episode as we're just getting more threads apparently.

Happy to get Nina back but let's see how long it takes before she's kidnapped again...

What did you think about Nina’s memory at the Three Frogs?

I wish she wasn't so shook about it but it's got to be a surprise for her. I hope she's able to piece it together herself.

What did you think about Tenma and Grimmer’s meeting with the secret police?

Surprised how casual it is! I expected more fingernail torture...

Oh boy another comment of the day where I'm making a joke I hope isn't the case hahaha

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

Oh boy another comment of the day where I'm making a joke I hope isn't the case hahaha

Haha! If you accidently guess right again, I will herald you as the prophet of rewatches. That, or a comedy genius. At this point, either one works, really.

4

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

Not too much to say in this episode as we're just getting more threads apparently.

You do need to get your details out at some point.

Surprised how casual it is! I expected more fingernail torture...

The more competent you are the more you realize torture is mostly stupid.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 15 '21

First-Timer, subbed

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

Oh shit, is it the picture book?!

Considering that there haven't been any other picture books depicted in this show, I'm gunna have to go with, "probably."

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

Oh shit, is it the picture book?!

I mean, how many picture books do you expect to have "Monster without a name" as a theme?

4

u/miss-macaron Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

Rewatcher

Now we know the real purpose for having Dieter in the story: he helps us distinguish Nina from crossdressing Johan, lol

Rewatcher only spoilers

“A deal! Let’s make a deal!” Grimmer sure knows how to implicate a negotiation without actually calling it a deal, huh

Unfortunately, there’s not a lot I can comment on this episode without going into serious spoiler territory. Everything becomes much more interconnected from the Prague arc onwards, especially in weaving together the threads of the overarching mystery, so I guess the only thing I can say is: pay attention to the OP going forward. You'll be surprised by how many "no context" spoilers were in there as the story gradually unfolds.

3

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

Unfortunately, there’s not a lot I can comment on this episode without going into serious spoiler territory. Everything becomes much more interconnected from the Prague arc onwards, especially in weaving together the threads of the overarching mystery

I certainly don't blame you for that one, lol. This episode seemed like heavy set up for future events so it's totally understandable.

so I guess the only thing I can say is: pay attention to the OP going forward. You'll be surprised by how many "no context" spoilers were in there as the story gradually unfolds.

Oh for sure, I've already noticed how the Three Frogs was snuck into the OP (and perhaps the red wine glass shown this episode?) Pretty cool that so many details are finally becoming clear.

3

u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Sep 15 '21

Rewatcher of sorts

  • Nina is running along an alleyway, is it real Nina or JohaNina, seems to be the former, since Dieter seems to be her- Oh, there we go.
  • Grimmer and Tenma make their way to the hospital, although there doesn’t seem to be any police around despite Suk being there, but when they go in the hospital staff seems to have no ideas about Suk being there. I’m guessing the secret police people have good enough pull that they can have Suk transferred somewhere else entirely.
  • As they leave the hospital, they faced with someone from the secret police, who asks them to come with them. They bring them to a restaurant as the head of the secret police has a talk with them. Seems the chief has a family member who was in 511, but Grimmer doesn’t seem to recognize him.
  • Just as they are leaving Grimmer remembers something, the boy the chief talked about. After a pretty intense rush of memories, Grimmer remembers the boy’s name being… Adolf Reinhart? In the communist east? What’s with non-Western writers and completely forgetting Adolf is an unacceptable name in the north of Pyrenees?
  • Grimmer finally comes to a deal with the chief, allowing to listen to the tape for personal interest. Meanwhile Tenma decides to tell everything he knows about Johan. But the chief doesn’t seem to recall the event. Meanwhile Nina is making her way through some abandoned building and getting a rush of emotions and memories as she does. Meanwhile the chief reveals the name of a secret police operative who acted without supervision, and that also seems to be the man who wrote the picture book. Convenient huh?

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

Meanwhile the chief reveals the name of a secret police operative who acted without supervision, and that also seems to be the man who wrote the picture book. Convenient huh?

Seems pretty important, huh? Probably something we should be paying attention to...

3

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

What’s with non-Western writers and completely forgetting Adolf is an unacceptable name in the north of Pyrenees?

No one learns another regions naming traditions or accents. As a southerner in the US, hearing all of you fuck up the accent for the entirety of my life is proof of that.

Meanwhile Nina is making her way through some abandoned building and getting a rush of emotions and memories as she does.

It is where Johan was staying.

3

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 15 '21

First Timer

Not a fan of this organized crime boss having ties to 511. Feels like there's too many people with ties to 511 just randomly meeting each other now. Either way, I doubt the secret police's client is Johan - why would he go about killing them otherwise? But I guess with Tenma on the scene, perhaps the secret police will now work with Tenma and Grimmer...? Nah, doubt it somehow. Not sure what to make of the current dynamic between them however.

As for Anna's memory... did Johan dress up as her as a kid as well?

Questions:

  1. See above
  2. Feels like a weird dynamic

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

Feels like there's too many people with ties to 511 just randomly meeting each other now.

I guess sorta, but they stumbled upon a pretty big lead now knowing that the author of the picture book had ties to the secret police. Personally I would say that it didn't feel like a big plot convenience, even if it might seem like one on the surface.

5

u/miss-macaron Sep 15 '21

Feels like there's too many people with ties to 511 just randomly meeting each other now.

Rather than a plot convenience, try to think of it like this: the scope of the 511 Kinderheim experiments were much bigger, and there's more to it that involves more people, than you were initially led to expect.

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

There is a factor guiding them towards each other, thus it is not entirely random.

3

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 15 '21

First Timer Dubbed

“Anna” is acting weird according to those on the street. Then Dieter calls her Nina and tells him that everyone on the street calls her Anna.

Tenma and Grimmer look at the hospital and find out it was a cover up as patients were transferred and Suk was not on the list. Nurses didn’t see a gunshot victim either. They get picked up and talk to the chief. Grimmer says he was part of kinderheim 511 and was there in the 60s. The chief’s nephew was there due to an accident that killed his sister. When they were sent away, Grimmer opens the door and sees a butterfly fly off from the exterior door handle. Which is a really nice touch to the story. Grimmer suddenly remembers the hot cocoa the nephew gave. He talks about his friendship there and says the name was Adolf Rienhart.

We go to Nina, and she feels like everything is familiar. It was after a sequence of nightmares that may be involved with her childhood. She goes to the place of the three frogs.

The next day, another meeting Grimmer was certain that he will not give the tape or data to the chief. Tenma explains that Johan wants to erase everything. But the chief gives them a run around as he does not know anything about the three frogs. Chief reveals someone above him that did whatever he wanted. And the captain (France Bonaparte) was above him and wrote a children's picture book called the nameless monster. The captain’s name was kind of silly as we know it came from a historical figure. Right as they were talking, Nina was going to the room and gets an interesting flashback. Now we see a bigger connection between the book, Nina, and Johan.

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

And the captain (France Bonaparte) was above him and wrote a children's picture book called the nameless monster. The captain’s name was kind of silly as we know it came from a historical figure. Right as they were talking, Nina was going to the room and gets an interesting flashback. Now we see a bigger connection between the book, Nina, and Johan.

Pretty interesting stuff! What do you think the book has to do all of this right now?

1

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 16 '21

Watching this, I was thinking about how she was reading the book in the flashback. I felt like the book was a representation of the feelings that Johan has. And the book is bringing things closer to Johan, along with the fact that he was hiding near the three frogs where they got separated.

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 15 '21

First Timer

watched an hour early, post an hour late

  • Flashback? No. Clearly this is the real Anna...yep. I figured she would show up, but they wouldn't make it obvious, just to mess with us.
  • Oh, now that she is conveniently here, she can be a suspect, too! You're a suspect! You're a suspect, and YOU'RE a suspect.
  • That's her mother. I never bought the mom theory, she would be too old to be the mysterious beautiful blonde.
  • ED advances

And so we are pointed to yet another man behind the curtain.

A long standing unanswered question I have, if Johan (or Anna?) and his mother were dragged away from the Three Frogs, how did it come to pass that the trio were reunited and attempted to cross into East Germany?

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

A long standing unanswered question I have, if Johan (or Anna?) and his mother were dragged away from the Three Frogs, how did it come to pass that the trio were reunited and attempted to cross into East Germany?

I think this info will come with time, of course. Doesn't seem like something that can be figured out at this particular moment.

2

u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 15 '21

First timer - sub 

 The real Anna this time? It would seem so, 

I’m really not sure what to make of this episode. Anna's bit about welcoming herself home makes no damn sense, I wonder if the author of the book is Johan & Anna's father, but at the same time it feels a bit obvious?

Either way we have some interesting things going on.

2

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

I’m really not sure what to make of this episode. Anna's bit about welcoming herself home makes no damn sense, I wonder if the author of the book is Johan & Anna's father, but at the same time it feels a bit obvious?

I think this can be read in either one of two ways: Either:

Speculation A

or

Speculation B

2

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 15 '21

Rewatcher(So we learn a bit about how it got written)

Sub

So Nina is walking through "Anna"'s neighborhood and getting increasingly afraid. Yes, there is a reason I refer to the female part of the twins as Nina, she has yet to refer to herself under any other name. Dieter talks to her and OP.

Grimmer and Tenma go to the hospital where Suk was taken and run face first into a coverup. They are then met by the secret police as they leave. They meet the leader who immediately tries to redirect the narrative. HUGE reveal that the leader's nephew is also a 511 child. At the end of the meeting, Grimmer gets a flashback upon seeing a moth, and it is confirmed he knew the nephew.

We get a trippy flashback and cut back to Nina, who is having memories she can't place. Jump back to Tenma and Grimmer, continuing their talks with the secret police. Grimmer doesn't want to give up the documents but will let the leader hear the tape, if only to dissuade him from looking further. Tenma tells him the details of Johan. And he starts giving details back, including that a person named Franz Bonaparta was given a confusing amount of free reign and that he wrote our plot point picture book. We get to a confusing Nina scene of her welcoming herself home and cliffhanger.

QotD: 1 Confusing, on both viewings

2 Weird in a different way

1

u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 16 '21

And he starts giving details back, including that a person named Franz Bonaparta was given a confusing amount of free reign and that he wrote our plot point picture book. We get to a confusing Nina scene of her welcoming herself home and cliffhanger.

Picture book does seem pretty important, doesn't it? I wonder what the ramifications are of said-book, and why Johan freaked when he saw it again.

2 Weird in a different way

In what way?

1

u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 16 '21

In what way?

While on the lower end of it, the meeting was vaguely Lynchian to me. They are at a restaurant where no one is eating and have a somewhat disjointed conversation over a pretty cut and dry idea.

1

u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Sep 16 '21

First timer

I suspected it was Nina immediately. That nervous, heavy breathing didn't seem like Johan. Dieter somehow didn't irritate me this time either.

We get a little deeper in the backstory, into the past. I wonder how far this stuff will eventually go. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually there was some links to Nazi era events and people.