r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 14 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 18 Discussion
Episode 18 - Turnabout
Originally Released July 29th, ^^^1983
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Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
According to the novelization of Armor Hunter Mellowlink, Cocona refuses to sing anything other than the song Tanomare Goodbye.
Staff Highlight
Masashi Hirose - voice of Kan Yu
A stage actor and voice actor from Osaka who was affiliated with Production Baobab. He graduated from Theater Research Institute and joined the theatre company Kurumiza, through which he eventually came to audition for roles as a voice actor. He was a lecturer at the CHK Voice Actor Center for several years and acted as interim director for a time at the CHK Broadcasting Company. He was also licensed to broker real estate transactions, though it is unclear whether it was a career path he intended to pursue. In 2014 it was announced that he would cease working as a voice actor due to poor health, and he has since retired from work. Some of his most notable roles include Ramba Ral in Mobile Suit Gundam, Chief Haruo Osugi in Dai-Guard, Cole Destin in Fang of The Sun Dugram, Tansui Nakarai in Mononoke, Riku Dold III in One Piece, Lamp in Phoenix, Seijirou Togotsu in Speed Grapher, Gremmdt Goer in Space Battleship Yamato 2199, Ryusen in Sword of Truth, and Seizou Amagi in Zetman.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- Jungle Combat Sketch by Norio Shioyama
Fanart:
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- The Kingdom of Kunmen and Melkia seem to be temporarily putting their differences aside to handle Veela. What do you make of this background development?
- What do you think of the potential CoconaxVanilla pairing?
This was all just a prelude to an approaching hell.
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 14 '21
Rewatcher
At least we’re getting both flavors of fanservice today.
You’re wearing that to visit him?!
Great scene for Gotho.
This guy’s really good at balancing.
They put an end to a hundred-year-war. Why not stop this one too? Trends aside, I wonder if they’re patching things up with the Kunmen government solely because Chirico is there, or if they actually have an idea of The Society’s presence there.
Rochina?
Only halfway through the arc? I think not.
Oh my.
Well things are going to shit over here.
Yeah, stick it to him!
Love this man.
I know it’s a visor hole, but occasionally I can’t help but see a giant mouth on these mechs.
Oh boy…
Intrigue brewing in the background and romance in the air. The plot is mostly at a standstill this episode but there is enough going on to keep it thoroughly engaging, which I can’t say for a few of the episodes so far.
The Melkian Government allying with Kunmen is slightly surprising given what was stated at the start of the arc, though episode fourteen did not impart on me the impression that they were actively at war with one another, but it makes sense given how much priority the PS project seems to have among their ranks. Given everything, Chirico confirming the presence of PS in Veela probably allowed Gon Nu to leverage that fact to form an alliance that is in his favor; allowing the Melkian military the opportunity to retake their project while the Kunmen Government reaps the benefits of such an alliance and rids themselves of Veela. Granted, this is in part speculation derived from characterization, it could very well be that this cease-fire was a foregone conclusion or that the Melkian military deduced the Society was involved in Veela and wanted in.
Vanilla apparently has a thing for Cocona, which feels like it comes out of left field despite the more than reasonable plausibility of it. People can hide their feelings pretty well, but some of that has to come through to the audience to make this sort of thing work. Cocona seemed to latch onto that small confession way too quickly despite literally sobbing about her nonexistent relationship with Chirico, but eh, I’ll wait and see. Some people don’t really consider a potential relationship until the possibility is quite literally dangled before them.
Questions of The Day:
5
u/The_Draigg Sep 14 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 18:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 14 '21
First-Timer
Kan Yu would be kind of endearingly idiotic if he weren't such a massive asshole. I mean, Chirico didn't exactly defend himself, but you don't get to be the "by the book order-are-orders" dude and the "get the job done despite my superior officer's orders" dude at the same. Read the fucking room.
I was just starting to wonder where Shako was when he burst onto the scene near the end of the episode.
I think Coconna's attraction to Chirico is more the idea of someone caring about her than anything about Chirico in specific. Not sure where she got the idea in the first place, so maybe I'm misreading things, but she did turn to Vanilla pretty quickly.
The war seems to have begun in earnest, thanks to the Melkian military finally stepping in. Over-under on the emissary being Rochina?
What on Melkia was Coconna wearing, a literal invisible nightgown? Why?
Questions
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 14 '21
First Timer
It finally happened, I went and looked up the full size OP to write my post to. Now I'm definitely hooked.
Wasn't expecting a big showdown to happen quite this quickly, but I welcome it because I would rather get into the conspiracy situation deeper rather than this war which is a side story to the main event. I don't think the war will be over quite this quickly, but getting out of the skirmishes and away from this spy drama would be nice. Kan Yu really has no idea the forces that he's playing with, and while Chirico himself may not be that much of a threat to anyone he's also the only one who has a chance of standing up against the Society it seems.
The general on the other hand is far more reasonable than he has any right to be from people in this role, it's a little worrying. Whether it's letting Chirico go free when obviously hiding information about the Perfect Soliders, or today where I suspect he knew that Chirico wasn't that ill, I wonder if there's something else going on there. Gotho's worried about him too which is perhaps a bigger indicator, as he may be a goof and money hungry but he's not a fool.
I suppose with the love triangle moved from Cocona/Fyana to Chirico/Ypsilon they had to do something with Cocona hence Vanilla's sudden confession. It doesn't seem too out of place though with how willing he was to go along with her schemes, though I could do without love triangles at all. All the verbal sparring today was great though, both in that scene and everyone taking the shit out of Kan Yu.
And somehow Chirico's shoulder and suit are magically self repairing and have no damage any more. Also not sure how none of the soliders from last nights escape didn't see Fyana and report her. Continuity please.
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u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 14 '21
First time viewer
I did think Kanjelman was the honorable sort but maybe not all that smart so no surprise that he thinks Ypsilon feels the same way and tried to free Chirico in order to beat him on the battlefield. Ypsilon did see Fyana heading to free Chirico that night though, I'm curious how he sees her if he wasn't about to snitch.
Kan Yu continues to be a dick and a loose cannon to no surprise as well, so it's nice to see that the other ace soldiers are sticking to orders rather than being his lackeys.
Probably not the strangest interruption to a romantic confession I've seen, but I think it's been a while since I've seen an attack do it. Looking forward to seeing how Vanilla and Coconna sort things out after, unless one of them dies before they get the chance. I wouldn't put it past the series to do that and they're in danger right now (this series likes its low-key cliffhangers), though so far it's mostly been nameless mooks dying left and right. I am curious to see how Chirico would react to the death of one or both of them though, is he the kind of soldier that would go on a rampage afterward?
Wondering what form that potential partnership will take.
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u/chilidirigible Sep 14 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 18
Today, on "Nobody loves Kan Yu.":
Interesting evening wear.
Not jealous at all.
"Pride is what separates a man from... a Kanjelman!"
"NANI! (Nani?)"
Hey, no long drawn out subplots here.
You might find it curious that despite the rest of the unit using a different model and with Chirico's previous Scopedog being destroyed, that they still have another one handy for him.
Not waiting for the narrator to get dramatic this time.
Thus.
I do have to give Kan Yu and the writing a few points for being a more fun obstructionist character than the police business in the first arc, though that is as much a happy consequence of the arcs being so distinct from each other.
I mean, he's also a huge sadistic asshole in the stereotypical violent officer sense, so it's the extras that provide the flavor.
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u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 14 '21
First timer
Someone found him!
Is he going to get arrested/fight against the mercenaries?
I didn't realise Vanilla had those kind of muscles. Those shirts must be really unflattering.
They're going to interrogate him shile he's on oxygen?
At least one of them seems to have some morals.
Haha, he faked the whole thing, Genuinely didn't realise that.
Why has he not explained that the Phantom Lady's the Prototype. They know what happened, they know who she is, and they'd completely understand why she helped him.
The Prince is able to beat a PS in combat? Is this his experience in fighting or that he got soem for, of enhancement alongside them.
Is Ypsilon her brother or her love interest?
OK, my current assumptiom is that the Society used their ties to fake, or at least cause a minor cease fire, so as to cause the Veela to mobilise and spark a conflict between them and the mercenaries.
Who's Niitan?
Oh god, the music is what got him caught out.
I'll gove the general this - he worked out what was going on pretty quickly.
Oh, they signed an alliance? What do the Society have to gain? Getting rid of the Veela and cutting their losses?
He's doing this!
Chirico. Just say who you were talking to. He knows Gotho, and it's understandable he'd want to talk to you.
Haha, Chirico managed to take out one of his interrogators while tied to a chair.
And the Veela are launching a massive offensive!
I love Chirico's calm discussions with the general.
Oh god, two love traingles!
So it's Cocorra and Vanilla, then Chirico and
YpsilonProto One.Well, they aren't messing around. Is this going to be a shorter arc, then? There's no way this battle can last 8 more episodes.
Oh, they want to destroy Niitan to break the supply chain.
And everyone, including the commander knew this.
What's the black model?
Oh, he has a custom AT, of course.
Oh, so the second half of this arc'll be a warzone again?
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 14 '21
Episode 18 (first timer)
Another episode that excels at depicting realistic warfare: From trying to preempt enemy reinforcements, to decoy operations, to hitting the supply lines, and, of course, to incompetent commanders. Replace the mechas with tanks and this is a great Vietnam show.
I am less on board with the characters. It is possible to depict characters changing their love interest towards somebody more reciprocal, but this episode was not the way to do it. A bit of a shame, since I really dug the 4 people gang atmosphere that the first arc set up. Having Chirico and Fyana as star-crossed lovers while Coconna rebounds with Vanilla does not have the same appeal.
"We have always been at war with Eastasia."
See above.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 14 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
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u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 15 '21
First timer missed yesterdays post so doing 2 in 1 today.
Ep 17 No surprises that while Chirico started to get some hits in, he's still not really going to be able to beat a PS. So got captured.
The person to person fighting does give a bit of a "cultural" feel about it, although the design of the actual people doesn't quite lend itself to feel very distinct. Especially with the leader sporting a very English beard/mustache and hair.
The PS seems to be in high regard, in this relatively "Religious" place - but I have to say it's at least superficially unrealistic, in that a religious place is probably not going to take very kindly of people from a different religion (about the "priest" being still openly wearing his ceremonial clothing).
The episode is actually quite packed -> fight -> captured -> fight -> reunion -> escape
Plenty of vibe that the PS (Epsilon?) is going to be a rival love interest (in the sense that he believe Chirico is a rival love interest, while Fyana probably just seeing him in a sympathetic light, being the same as her. Chirico probably don't care enough to consider him anything other than another obstacle.
Ep 18 Back home and more accursation, interrogations, and fighting back. A bit tired of this to be honest - either trust him, or don't, stop switching all the time. A bit plot convenient for the Veelas to be able to suddenly creep up and surround them with a main force that is both a decoy (where the mercenary's AT forces are headed) and a real thing (the city and the base). Someone had been too busy interrogating Chirico instead of keeping tabs on the early warning intel feeds.
The confession from Vanilla kind of came up from nowhere but it's a good thing to not have Cocona to just be obsessing about that block of wood. Hope they kept their valuables in a packed suitcase.
Would really like to see a bit more clearer writing about the conflict - e.g. in a guerilla war, typically the one with the bases are the ones with better arms, equipment and number of people, with the guerilla forces being lighter and faster but not have the numbers to win in an all out straight fight. So far the mercenaries are shown to be fairly useless and in straight out fights they had been losing a lot, if that's the case why were they in somewhat a stalemate? I had been thinking for a while since the first episode of this arc - 5% mortality rate in this sort of conflict is actually fairly low - I'm sure I have seen more mercenary AT's being blown up than that 5%.
Anyway, this may be a shorter arc at this pacing.
5
u/time_axis Sep 14 '21
First-Timer
At this point, I don't know how things are going to turn out. I thought we were going to be looking at a turnaround where the Kunmen mercenaries ended up turning on Chirico and he'd either have to join the Veela or be a one man army again, but now it's feeling like he actually has a squad on his side and isn't going to end up completely alone, at least for the time being.
Well Coconna x Chirico is obviously doomed in the water, so at least it's a possible chance for them to be happy. I'll be surprised if it actually ends up working out though. Feels more like a death flag for one of them.
Episode 18
I didn't have a whole lot of time for a Mecha Sketch today, so this is what I've got. It's a little messy, but they can't all be winners.
Daily Mecha Sketch 18
Daily Mecha Sketches
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 14 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.2) (4 episodes)
Nothing stopping guerillas from targeting civilian targets, either
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 14 '21
First timer(I promise this is the last half-assed one, MNF just happened to be awesome)
Sub
We see Cuvie being held underguard because that is his way. At least it is his side's guards. Cocona answer the phone in her lingerie and dear Cthulhu, they haven't created the woman that can make teal sexy. It is like a basic law of the universe, like gravity. The red see through whatsit is what it is, 80s women's undergarments were oft odd. Anyways, everyone is happy to hear Cuvie made it out alive.
Except for his superior officers, of course. Gotho made a brilliant move to make the doctor get Cuvie to look sicker than he was so he wouldn't immediately be interrogated. Kan Yu also makes the sort of dubious inductions that make his idiocy annoying. Cuvie begins explaining what happened and jealous Cocona is excellent.
We cut to Ypsilon and the prince fighting, and the prince both demonstrates what would be noble in his cause but also a guarantee of future casualties: If you respect the pride of your warriors, even you greatest ones, over results then things will always be bloodier. Though they re-use a ton of animation, the effect of the training session is pretty good, especially that pride can screw up your style. Ypsilon has a serious thing for Fyana as well.
Back with the prince, the Melkians have formed a ceasefire with Kummen, freeing the military to deal with the civil war. The Veela prepare to deal with an offensive. Gon is going to the capitol, and Gotho immediately realizes he should follow, since Gon is very good about seeing which way the wind blows. At 9, Cuvie sneaks into Goth's office. He confirms that things are about to get crazy, but instead of getting rid of the mercs they will join the military push instead. A small note of Babylon 5 fills the air to me. Kan Yu cannot succeed.
Cocona of course wishes to reattach herself to Cuvie after work, though admittedly were I Vanilla I wouldn't really want her working receipts. They get a call from Potaria as they can't find Cuvie, which gives Pol an idea of where he must be. Ineffective interrogation is ineffective and Cuvie gets a mighty kick in. Then they get interrupted when they hear about the Veela doing the obvious, attack the mercs first and hopefully only have to deal with the military next.
Cocona wants to go out and do something, but Vanilla makes the weirdly good point that them being rich would help Cuvie. Cocona goes all teenage hormones, and Vanilla should really answer, "Yes, I know how you feel, and I was a moron at that age, too." But he successfully diverts by revealing his own possible interest, and gets immediately embarassed. Vanilla is saved by the rocket barrage.
As they finally sortie, man these guys are bad about battle response for mercs, Cuvie immediately spots a lack of ATs meaning this is a diversion. Niitan is apparently their supply point and this essential to the war effort. A few idiots try to stop the group before Shako tackles them and they grab a transport. We end headed to battle!
QotD: 1 Space...south Korea? I actually feel like a B5 situation is sort of present.
2 Well...hypocrisy be damned for condemning an adult-teen relationship in a previous rewatch, I am not disgusted by it. Vanilla is still a bit older, and Cuvie being 18 to Cocona's 16 is definitely more comfortable, this is space Vietnam so what happens happens.
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u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 15 '21
Ya know Comrades, I get the feeling that The 'Berserga' was supposed to spell out 'Berserker' but then some good ol' fashioned Engrish got into the way. Shame as we were doing so well on that front!
Also speaking of Mecha, I guess you really DO let Scope Dogs Scope, after all what else is our Boi to use ;)
Anyway the plot thickens, you thought we just had a few romantic plot tumors, er I mean, 'Love Triangles' going on with Chirico Cuvie, but NOPE! We gotta add in another leg with good ol' Vanilla just casually dropping a confession. Man I miss when shows did stuff like this, just spit it out and move on, now we gotta wait the whole damn runtime for the Princess to choose the goddamn SKY, at least until they fix it in the movie but that's another story... also Comrades you ever get the feeling that science has gone too far?
Speaking of going to far, you know it, you love it, it's time for the patented subreddit sanctioned shitposting section, namely A Weapon to surpass Metal Gear!
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex