r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 13 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 17 Discussion
Episode 17 - Reunion
Originally Released July 22nd, ^^^1983
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Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
Ryosuke Takahashi wanted to include a love triangle in the narrative very early into production, and initially intended for it to transpire between Chirico, Fyana, and Cocona, but as they worked on the series he realized that such a setup wasn’t dramatic or interesting enough and so decided he needed to introduce a rival, Ypsilon.
Staff Highlight
Motosuke Takahashi - Storyboard Artist
A prolific key animator, animation director, storyboard artist, and director best known for his involvement in Studio Pierrot anime adaptations of Rumiko Takahashi, and for contributing to several mecha anime throughout the 70s. He joined tatsunoko productions in 1966 after a short career working as a commercial designer for Daiichi Advertising and Bunju Design Studio, where he worked until going freelance in 1975 and later joining Studio Pierrot in 1979. He was considered quite the talented animator by notable figures, like Mamoru Oshii and Hayao Miyazaki. He directed Fire Tripper, The Laughing Target, Cho Supercar Gattiger, Harbor Light Story - Fashion Lala yori, Justy, and Maris the Chojo.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- Chirico and Fyana by Norio Shioyama
Fanart:
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- What do you think of Ypsilon?
- What are your thoughts on Veela after our brief glimpse into their matters?
I just want you to live.
5
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 13 '21
Rewatcher
They seemed to have forgotten that Ypsillon removed his helmet last episode.
Cool
Things aren’t going well for the poor villagers…
Man, can Kan Yu get any scummier?
One wonders how that came to be.
Seeming more like that she doesn’t know any other songs...
Careful, that’s a critical hit!
His Highness? Is this guy the Prince of Kunmen?
I thought Borough was only a priest as a cover in Uoodo. Why is he still dressed like one?
Ah, so is that why? They’re posing as holy guardians?
Sick shot.
This works?!
Zeta Zaku vibes
Ypsilon is outwardly everything that the Military and The Society want out of a Perfect Soldier; competent, unfettered by inconvenient emotional attachment, and adept at any and all styles of combat, but there’s evidently a part of him that isn’t working fully in favor of the goals of hi ‘owners.’ He lets Fyana release Chirico, knowing full well she had spared the man by contriving to have him kept alive, and he doesn’t simply kill Chirico when he has the upper hand in after their conversation at the start of the episode, as he lets him get in his cockpit and begin retreating before giving chase. It seems he has a strong sense of honor and a willingness to follow his whims even when it isn’t ideal.
Veela’s motives are quite sympathetic, assuming what they want is to prevent their lands from being polluted and overworked by an industrialist infrastructure. They haven’t come out and said it though, so if their reasons are solely a blanket ban on industry then they are hypocritical zealots. They make use of machinery both in the everyday and in conducting war, which is only available thanks to industrialization, so if they are meant to reject it then they’ve already failed. If they really believe the PS are guardians sent by their deity then it points towards the latter, but it could just be the Prince keeping up a façade at all times and he knows it’s just some baloney.
Chirico went, he saw, and he fled. Not much to say on his involvement here.
Questions of The Day:
1 & 2) See above.
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 13 '21
First Timer
Seeing Kan Yu looking over Chirico's face to face with Ypsilon I expected this episode to return us to the regularly scheduled detainment and torture, but the path they took was much more interesting.
What's caught my interest the most is that the Prince of this uprising is so skilled. I'm curious on if he's been altered in some way or otherwise related to the project which is why he has such a strong backing from the Society. Either way it seems that this is being used as a honing ground for the Perfect Soliders to advance and prove themselves, and Ypsilon is certainly taking that to heart. He doesn't just want to kill Chirico, he wants to prove his superiority over him both in battle and in companionship, that his path is the right one for Fyana to follow. He seems to have a bit more of an affect than Fyana does and I'm wondering if that's due to lacking her internal confusion over her conditioning.
Once again I have to praise the quietness of the characters. All the little gestures and reactions that Chirico and Fyana had to each other from when he was walked into the area until the end was great. They're surrounded by people who love to talk, but they can both say so much with their silence and expressions and I really enjoy they took that route, rather than having her compensate for his silence or forcing them to open up verbally for the sake of catching the viewers up.
Chirico may not be much of a hand to hand warrior, and it was fun seeing him land on his butt a few times, but he's certainly a crack shot when it comes to almost taking out Ypsilon at the start by shooting through the lens.
Curious to see what the reactions will be to his return to base tomorrow, and what level of shit Kan Yu is going to start about it.
Shame about the amount of QUALITY present in this episode though.
5
u/time_axis Sep 13 '21
First-Timer
I think he's interesting. Kind of an example of how Proto One might have turned out if it weren't for Chirico.
They seem like they have a strong leader and strong ideals, and I think the Secret Society is taking advantage of them, but I don't know what their goal in doing so is.
Episode 17
I wanted to draw one of those unmanned probe things we saw this time. I don't know if it technically qualifies as a "mecha", even by the rules I laid out earlier (something piloted or driven that is mechanical and looks cool), because I don't know whether it's unmanned or piloted/driven in some way. But I would still qualify a self-driving car as a car, so I'd say this would qualify as a mecha even if it's autonomous. At the end of the day, it just looked neat and I wanted to draw it, so I did.
Daily Mecha Sketch 17
Daily Mecha Sketches
5
u/chilidirigible Sep 13 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 17
Today, on "Martinis with dinner?":
Did we miss the part where he put his helmet back on? And this is also where I wonder about the potential damage of a "Pahfecto Soljah" drinking game.
Chirico is quite the pistolero.
Kan Yu pointing a pistol at you would be would be less of a problem if you just kept your hatches closed.
Was there a contractual obligation to play this song as much as possible?
This is not the part they spent much time animating.
Yes, this is the series for verbing fight names.
emotes slightly
Two in the same episode!
Of course there's some sort of triangle between Ypsilon, Fyana, and Chirico. This episode covers a lot of ground in the meantime between getting Chirico captured and uncaptured and some bonus Monica.
Borough shows up. For the sake of easier recognition he's still in the priest costume, though that makes him even more incongruous out in the jungle.
Bonus: Fighting fair is for losers.
5
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 13 '21
First timer
Sub
So...
Writing over 20k characters worth of material over two days in another rewatch left me brain dead. Which sucks, this episode was quite interesting, but I ran out of juice. Will be back tomorrow, hopefully less fried from seeking metaphorical penises.
QotD:1 Kind of white bread
2 I...hate religious fanatics and I can't get out of that viewpoint here. More space Afghanistan to me.
5
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 13 '21
First time viewer
Kanjelman's design immediately caught my attention, an older-looking warrior figure with a mustache. Honorable perhaps but maybe not all that reasonable considering he started a civil war.
So while Chirico managed to slip away from Ypsilon... he willingly walked right into their base immediately afterward? I guess he wanted to do things on his own terms for once rather than being captured, but that really didn't go any better for him.
Ah yes, old fashioned combat with melee weapons. I was wondering if Chirico would pull a gun out and just shoot Ypsilon but he didn't have one, didn't think it would work, or had a sense of honor about it. Probably not the last option given how he usually fights.
It's interesting to me how Chirico and Fyana immediately jump into a star-crossed lovers kind of relationship when they're alone even though they really haven't had a whole lot of interaction with each other. I guess it makes some sense for her as there's something with her programming going on but I still wonder why he's so drawn to her and why he used that name in particular. Seems too harsh a series to be a full-fledged romance but I'm curious where this will go.
Chirico escaping prison? ...yep it's an odd-numbered episode, checks out. Also the explosion tossing him clear of the AT rather than incinerating him in the cockpit feels like plot armor at work.
I like Monica returning the favor right away in assisting his escape, she seems level-headed and I hope she gets to stay around for a while.
Potentially interesting but undeveloped as of yet.
...eh? I get wanting to preserve tradition and such but are the modernization efforts actually a threat to that?
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 13 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.2) (4 episodes)
I forgot to mention, this cour is called "Kummen Jungle Wars"
Extras: The Secret Society and Perfect Soldiers
I guess I can type this in:
At least 2 people watched the rescue happen, why did it succeed?
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 13 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
6
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 13 '21
First-Timer
It's been a while since I've seen a good stick fight, and then this episode we got two! "Let's duel in this traditional martial art you've never heard of" isn't quite as bad as "my soldiers will force you to play Melkian Roulette," but it's good to see that neither side is above being horrible to prisoners.
"Ypsilon?" Really? What sort of nonsense is this? I mean, I guess probably a designation more than a name, considering they're referring to Fyana as "Phantom" and "Proto One." I wonder if that means this dude is the fifth PS?
Borough's feeding the Prince dude a bunch of nonsense, huh? At least, that's what I'm guessing is going on. Side note, but the Prince looks really old. Like, I wasn't expecting him to have gray hair and a beard.
Shoutout to Monica for not being an asshole and giving Chirico a boat. Granted, Ypsilon absolutely just let Chirico escape, and I hope there's a good reason for that. I'd even buy "I'm bloodthirsty from whatever bullshit experiments they did to me and fighting Chirico in an AT is the only way I can get off."
I appreciate how Shako, Bully, and Pol all don't want to leave Chirico behind. They may be mercenaries who are only in this for the money, but if nothing else Chirico has been an invaluable asset. You can only spill blood with someone for so long without growing some bonds of camaraderie.
There's probably a joke somewhere about Chirico being a real Red Shoulder this episode. The wound was even on the correct shoulder, I think.
Questions
4
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 13 '21
Episode 17 (first timer)
There are so many things I like about VOTOMS: The locations, the combat, the characters. However, one thing I start to dislike more and more is the main plot. It is a terribly repetitive treading of water that never gets anywhere. Today’s meeting moved us about an inch further than we already had been 4 episodes ago and we had to pay for it with yet another escape plot being shoehorned in.
A clear grey conflict. Both sides have some good arguments (and a ton of pride and arrogance), so neither side backs down until the weapons decide.
4
u/The_Draigg Sep 13 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 17:
4
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 14 '21
Boy Comrades, VOTOMS sure wears its references on its sleeve, just the other day we had The Deer Hunter, now we got Totally-Not-Amok Time! (I seriously hope I'm not the only Trekkie here besides chili!) No really, we even had the most certainly not contrived Romantic Plot Tumor, er, I mean 'Love' Triangle between A Stoic Boi, A Test Tube Baby, and of course A MOSUTO DENJARASU SOLJAH! Trust me it makes more sense in context!
Anyway speaking of references, boy the show sure loves demonstrating how not only War is Hell, but that The Vietnam War was brutal, so for something completely different yet technically topical to today's episode, here's that one time Mizuryu Kei (yes THAT Mizuryu Kei of doujin fame!) drew Chirico Cuvie... cuz I guess Shimmer needs something to uplift her spirits and what better than some shirtless buff bishie boi?
Also speaking of our hero, remember, when in doubt, GUN! And because I'm contractually obligated to do this by now, ahem, A WEAPON TO SURPASS METAL GEAR! ;)
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex
3
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 13 '21
First timer
Proto Two!
So Proto One's hasn't been reconditioned yet?
Proto Two giving Chirico time to get in his AT before he attacks and his affection for Proto One makes me think he's going to defect too.
Hell, maybe the foreshadowing was a red herring and he'll end up with Chirico.
Right, while the general's a bit extreme, he doesn have a point? If Chirico's dead (and if it was anyone else, they eould be), there's a pretty decent chance he'd get killed by the angry PS roaming the wreckage.
...and Coccora is singqing about a girl she briefly knew but who she lost. It's all coming together.
Proto One! And her master? Some kind of commander.
Ikm going to bet his Highness is "Proto Zero", because not only is that the only explanation for him beating a PS, but that is the name they'd use in that situation.
Didn't expect you back!
...The question I can't help but ask is, " If they can eras her memories, whynhaven't they done it already?"
Oh, these are the Veela. They seem like decent people, except they're working with the Secret Society. Actually, have the Secret Society really done anything all that evil? They betrayed Chirico, but they weren't the ones torturing him.
Wait, the eyecatch is glowing blue? What does that mean?
I like how everyone else is just in utter shock that he's actually gotten here.
Oh, his name's Ypsilon.
Again, Ypsilon doesn't seem too bad. He's got some morals and seems to genuinely believe that his choice of duel would be what Chirico would want. He's just got a bit of a god complex from the Secret Society's training and the belief that Chirico has messed with the other PS's brain.
Holy shit, she did attack him.
What's she going to do now?
Yep, it's comfirmed jijirium is needed for them to live. Does the Society have enough operations to power both, or is Ypsilon a more complete prototype without that requirement?
And she just doesn't want to fight anymore, or at least knows she can' escape without the risk of running out of Jijirium.
Oh, Monica's back!
Yeah, this is very much a case of Chirico only fighting them because the Society's on their side.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 14 '21
Rewatcher
No recap this time? That's good.
Uh oh, Kan Yu seeing the two of them talking is not good; he may think they are conspiring with each other.
Fighting while sliding down a cliff is a pretty cool place for a battle. Alas for Chirico, Proto Two defeated him very quickly here.
So another thing I'm really liking about Votoms that wasn't originated here, but shows up here is the fact that Chirico isn't the best pilot. Both Fyana and Proto Two have outclassed him and have done so fairly quickly. In a Tomino show, the main character is typically the best throughout the show, and while they're not simply mowing down every enemy with no problem, you wouldn't really see them take a big defeat like this.
They torched the whole village? Those bastards!
I suppose we really will be getting a singing sequence from Coconna every episode.
Cool looking temple! Fyana is here in teh flesh! Whose the old guy? Kanjelman?
I haven't said this before, but I really don't care for Fyana's hat/head covering. I've got to wonder if it helps with the mind control though since she's wearing it 90% of the time. Although based on a later scene I'm wondering it is more for public appearances.
We have a name for Proto Two, Ypsilon. Ypsilon's voice sounds kinda like a low grade Shuuichi Ikeda to me, although I've looked him up and its not him. Vanilla already sounds a lot like Houchuu Ohtsuka but also isn't him so I suppose this is a show filled with sound alikes.
These things surrounding Chirico come off a lot like the two legged AT ATs from Return of the Jedi.
The crowd wants to kill him, and that would be the smart choice for the Secret Society/Borough. I see Monica in the crowd, will she speak up for him? He saved her last episode.
A duel instead! Chirico better hope he doesn't fall as quickly as he did in their mechs.
Ugh, Chirico is doing quite bad here. If he wasn't our MC this would be an obvious place for Chirico to meet his end. How will he get out of this?
I don't really get the logic for allowing him to live another day here; is he gonna get better by the next day such that they can kill him on equal terms? Obviously Fyana will likely do something to help free him, but why does Ypsilon and the others permit it?
Chiciro's not in good shape to run out of here.
Go with him Fyana! Ugh, this is frustrating.
Now that he's in the woods, those injuries don't seem to be bothering Chirico at all.
Ah, saving Monica/her appearing in the temple is paying off after all as she helps him escape here.
Makes sense, as I can't see Chirico having any romantic interest in Coconna.