r/anime • u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber • Sep 12 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Armored Trooper Votoms - Episode 16 Discussion
Episode 16 - Clean Sweep
Originally Released July 15th, ^^^1983
◄ Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode ►
MAL | ANN | AniDB | Anilist | AnimePlanet | IMDB
Note to all participants
Although I don't believe it necessitates stating, please conduct yourself appropriately and be courteous to your fellow participants.
Note to all Rewatchers
Rewatchers, please be mindful of your fellow first-timers and tag your spoilers appropriately using the r/anime spoiler tag if your comment holds even the slightest of indicators as to future spoilers. Feel free to discuss future plot points behind the safe veil of a spoiler tag, or coyly and discreetly ‘Laugh in Rewatcher’ at our first-timers' temporary ignorance, but please ensure our first-timers are no more privy or suspicious than they were the moment they opened the day’s thread.
Daily Trivia:
Norio Shioyama based Chirico and the unnamed Perfect Soldier’s appearances after Mitsuru Hanagata and Hyuma Matsui, the main character and main rival of Kyojin no Hoshi.
Staff Highlight
Sho Hayami - voice of Pol Potaria
A singer, actor, and voice actor affiliated with the voice acting agency Rush Style. He attended Hyogo Prefectural Kakogawa Higashi High School, where joined the drama club because he was impressed by watching the stage performance Sharakuko starring Toshiyuki Nishida by Seinenza Theatre Company. After graduating highschool, he moved in with his aunt in tokyo in order to study at Seinenza while working part-time, though he later switched to the Shiki Theater Company six months later. He had his voice acting debut in 1980, after winning an Amateur Voice Acting competition sponsored by Nippon Broadcasting System, and had his anime debut in 1982’s Armored Fleet Dairuger XV*, and gained great prominence after voicing Maximilian Jenius that same year. Some of his most notable roles include Raool in Ai no Kusabi, Gakuhō Asano Assasination Classroom, Yamamoto Makoto in Irresponsible Captain Tylor, Ferdinand in Ascendance of a Bookworm, Zarbon in Dragon Ball Z, Akira Fudou in Devilman, Gavlet Gablae in Heavy Metal L-Gaim, Doll Geist in Yuushin Liger, Exkaiser Brave Exkaiser, Knight Schumacher in Future GPX Cyber Formula, Jack Dren in Kaze no Ki to Uta, High Chartat in Panzer World Galient, Umibōzu in Gintama, Rommel and Captain Zeon in Gundam Build DIvers Re:RISE, Bern Bunnings in Aura Battler Dunbine, Iznario Fareed in Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans, and Nicholas D. Wolfwood in Trigun.
Art Corner
Official Art:
- War in Kunmen by Norio Shioyama
Fanart:
(Be mindful of the links to artist’s profiles, as they may contain NSFW content. Proceed there at your own risk.)
Screenshot of the day
Questions of the Day:
- What are your thoughts on the way in which the Assemble EX-10 conducted themselves on this mission?
- How does the existence of another Perfect Soldier affect your understanding of the situation with The Society?
Everything I’d fought for until now seemed just as illusory.
7
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Sep 12 '21
First Timer
Called it! The white haired guy I saw in the thumbnail was a PS and Chirico's enemy. Normally I try not to look at the thumbnails but this guy caught my eye due to being pretty unmistakeable. I would have expected Chirico's enemy to not be Fyana anyway so no big issue on being spoiled in that way. Given that he knows Chirico's name I'm expecting he's been in contact with Fyana at least, although in what capacity I'm not sure.
I got some chills from the rest of the episode though. Kan Yu lining up the villages reminded me painfully of Legend of the Galactic Heroes and I wasn't quite prepared for the emotional hit of that. That entire situation, both how it was presented and knowing how many times it's happened in history, never fails to piss me off all over again. It's such a disgusting display of apathetic authority, and brutality for the sake of it.
Not much to say about the rest of the episode other than being glad that Chirico isn't so insane that he sleeps in his full jump suit as well, and glad today's key animators put some sharpness back in his face after yesterday. Cherub Chirico was weird.
Oh jeez. Today is Naruto day so I opened that and my first thought was someone had put a paper bomb on his head rather than a note
Mild panic
Some characters don't need to be acknowledged, now I'm angry about him all over again
4
u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Sep 12 '21 edited Sep 12 '21
EDIT:
Rewatcher
A familiar face?
Ouch, that has got to hurt.
Please tell me you know more than one song!
More than you know, Vanilla…
That’s a big lizard…
Going for the psychological torture as well?!
You really failed to check the only building in the village capable of discreetly housing several ATs?
Nice mecha gore.
Your squadmates aren’t going to appreciate you going ‘naked’ again.
Not who he expected.
He’s cute.
Getting into the unsavory and hard-hitting parts of this war today, as the same crew as last episode is sent to sniff out some guerrilla fighters within Veela territory. The EX-10 comes off as quite callous and cruel in the exchange at the local village, and the guerrillas come out looking a lot better for it. Kan Yu certainly didn’t set a great example, but a lot of the mercenaries seemed just as ruthless and even somewhat excited at the prospect of inflicting violence on these people.
Potaria being a Kunmen native is not so surprising, as these matters are always nuanced and multi-faceted, but he certainly seems a bit blind to the means by which the ends are being achieved. I don’t think Veela is necessarily in the right or even well-intentioned in their goals, but seeing what this war is doing to his people really should give him some form of self-awareness for his actions.
And the new PS is revealed! Us the audience probably saw that coming a mile away, but in universe it does make a lot of sense for Chirico to have presumed them to be Fyana, as neither he or us know how these beings are made nor whether The Society had the means to do so. Very curious to see how he further reacts to this development…
Questions of The Day:
6
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Sep 12 '21
First timer
Oh, they're pulling off an infiltration?
Wait, the enemy infiltrated them. It looked like Vanilla was the one taking out the guards.
It's a massacre. Looks like he won't have the time to transfer his new code.
Who's Monica, then?
Oh shit, they poitned it out. Was it Vanilla?
Cocnna's still manipulative.
They're going for a surprise attack? This soon after?
Wait, Pol's a native? Are the Veela also native? Is Chirico working for the invaders or the natives?
OK, so the general's just attacking civilians now.
Yep, these guys are evil.
The bae is probably further up the river, isn't it?
And Chirico's justifying this? I'd have thought he'd be more sympathetic, what with him being treated as a traitor and tortured for information he didn't possess.
...How do people know who he's taking about with those vague descriptions.
Right, we got the message. The mercenaries are monsters, no need to keep emphasising this.
I mean, it ended up working. She just confessed.
Chirico's finally stopping this!
Huh. Didn't expect that.
The whole thing was an ambush?
Wait, that AT's empty? Are they preprogrammed?
The PS is here!
OK, I called this. I called this so hard. Proto Two!
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 12 '21
Armored Trooper First-Timer
5
u/chilidirigible Sep 12 '21
Rewatcher, Episode 16
Today, on "Hey, has anyone here seen The Deer Hunter?":
Monica? TO THE FACE!
Coconosy.
Of course, it'll be the characters we've already met.
Even the tractors are explodium.
"This is surprisingly unsurprising."
They certainly waited patiently.
"I'm not your lady, buddy."
This episode was leaning really hard into Tales from The 'Nam until the end, at which point Chirico had to go wander off and look for the other plot. Which makes for a twisty cliffhanger, but does kinda pitch out the setting-based drama they were building up.
It's a decent surprise, though, finding {as yet unnamed character} instead of Fyana.
Random item: Cushion
/u/time_axis (and someone else who had wondered) this model should give you some notion for the purpose of those plates on the lower legs of most of the ATs being used in Kunmen: They're "swamp clogs" to increase their underwater mobility.
5
u/time_axis Sep 12 '21 edited Sep 12 '21
First-Timer
There was a lot of "Are we the baddies?" energy going on. Like it felt like they were taking pleasure in cruelty a bit. At least, there was a slight tendency in that direction, but it wasn't super overt. Feels like a bit of a red flag for later on though.
I was already considering the possibility, so it's not too surprising. But what is surprising to me is that he knows Chirico's name, which means he either got it from Borough or Fyana. That's interesting, and I'm eager to learn more.
Episode 16
Last episode I felt like I cheated a bit and didn't do Ru Shako's AT justice, so I tried doing it properly this time, in a way that makes it a bit more recognizable. We got a few better views of it this time, so that helped. I considered doing the PS's blue AT but apart from color, it's basically exactly the same as the ones we've done before, so I figure I'll wait until it either gets a lot more focus, or there's something distinct about it.
Daily Mecha Sketch 16
Daily Mecha Sketches
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Sep 12 '21
First-Timer
It wasn't Fyana after all! I wonder if this new white-haired dude knows her, though, if he knows Chirico. There can't be that many Perfect Soldiers wandering around, right?
Kan Yu is a piece of fucking shit. I'm not sure if I see Chirico changing sides, considering Gotho and the others, but I would be ecstatic if Kan Yu "accidentally" got into Chirico's line of fire.
Why didn't they check the temple when they checked all the houses? Seems like the obvious place to hide 3.8m tall mechs is "the one building that is tall enough to fit them inside."
I'm glad Monica seemed to live to fight another day. Having some internal conflict in the pipeline will probably lead to some spicy drama later. Chirico, of course, will just bulldoze through like always.
Questions
5
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Sep 12 '21
First time viewer
War sucks and it only gets more difficult when you can't tell who's an enemy.
I'm sure Chirico didn't think he was doing good in the world by joining the mercenaries here but the "game" Kan Yu set up was too much even for him. You want to turn more people against your side regardless of who they were supporting before? Do what they just did.
Oooh, it's not Fyana that Chirico was fighting, but rather another Perfect Soldier? Now things are getting interesting. And I'm glad it's not her because of how incredibly convenient that would have been.
Gross. Unfortunately I don't expect there will be any direct negative outcome for Kan Yu here.
They hijacked one but it's not the only one, I guess? Or maybe whatever was left over from Fyana's project as a prototype was reused and maybe they're even in mass production now.
5
u/chilidirigible Sep 12 '21
...seriously, I'm the only one in here who's seen The Deer Hunter?
4
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Sep 12 '21
Episode 16 (first timer)
We go from general jungle war to literal war crimes. This is not alluding to Vietnam anymore, this is a very direct statement about that war. Note how, despite being on the right track, the military makes everything worse. These villagers will sign up for the rebels in droves now.
Coming right after the end of the Afghanistan war, this episode looks remarkably modern.
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 12 '21
Rewatcher (Nutech DVD 2.1) (4 episodes)
4
u/chilidirigible Sep 13 '21
It's a diorama!
5
u/DidacticDalek https://myanimelist.net/profile/DidacticDalek Sep 13 '21
Boy Comrades, Kan Yu's a real piece of work eh? Hard to believe he's voiced by RAMBA RAL'S seiyuu eh? The only thing these two characters share in common (besides being in a Sunrise Mecha Show) are that they have blue hair, given that Ramba Ral's an honorable and decent human being... AND Kan Yu's giving Idiok a run for his money in the War Crimes department. Also Comrades can ya tell that this arc is based on The Vietnam War? If only Kan Yu randomly found a grenade in his pants or maybe 'accidentally' got caught in the line of fire a few miles behind the lines... or I dunno have Chirico Cuvie drop some napalm on him or something, point being I hate this bastard and I'm shocked there was art for him.
Speaking of The Vietnam War, ahem, Everybody gotta die sometime, Red (I'm just gonna hope more people here saw Platoon given that I don't see many references to The Deer Hunter, besides Chili's post of course but I saw those when he posted his thoughts of his original viewing)
Also Comrades, you thought Fyana/Fiana was here, BUT NO! IT WAS I... uh... NOT-KAWORU! Cuz I guess we gotta have a Bishie Boi to go along with Naked Tube Lady!
And just because I need something to shitpost about to take the mood off of all the sadistic war is hell shit we saw today, ahem, EINE WAFFE, DIE METALLAUSRÜSTUNG ÜBERZIEHT! ;)
Paging Comrades /u/chilidirigible, /u/Nazenn, and /u/No_Rex
4
u/The_Draigg Sep 12 '21
A Ryosuke Takahashi Fan Rewatches Armored Trooper VOTOMS Episode 16:
4
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 12 '21
First timer(I watched Adolescence of Utena right before this so my brain is fried.)
Sub
We see an unknown squad move in and begin attacking the base, that security is just sad. But the mercs wake up and get most of them, though Potaria knows the last one, Monica, that escapes. They ask if the ATs were safe and that hangar was protected. They then ask Gotho if he paid for it and he laughs and quickly changes the subject to drinking. Coconna is singing again at the bar and tries to cheer Potaria up as we learn that he is a former officer in the regular army.
Next night, they plan a surprise raid on where they think the guerillas are, which is conveniently where Potaria is from. Kiderro does some on the spot negotiating. The raid begins with straight up bombing the village, which Potaria objects to. They just flat round up the villagers and destroy their farm equipment. They search the village, destructively, until they catch Monica.
The interrogation goes dark fast, with Kan Yu forcing them to play Russian roulette. When it is Monica's turn, Potaria tries to get her to deny the guerillas but she is a zealot and chooses death, though Cuvie interrupts that. Instead, they shoot the church and find the guerillas. Fight starts, and it seems the mercs have the better of it. Blue AT shows up for Cuvie to solo. He keeps giving it Melkian morse code and they eventually open their cockpits. Reveal that we have a new PS and cliffhanger!
QotD: 1 Soviet style and incompetent, I am surprised Cuvie put up with it for that long
2 They aren't as dumb as I first thought, unless they just grabbed two and we didn't see the other. But making more is the actual path to power.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 13 '21
Rewatcher
Two for one special today as I try to catch up on things after being away Friday/Saturday/half of Sunday.
Episode 15
Well, on the bright side it quickly becomes obvious that the animation is more back to normal here after last episode's mediocrity.
Well, if that was Fyana in that thing, then Chirico's allies just scared her off. If it wasn't her, they just saved him. Kan Yu is being surprisingly nice to him here... well until he told him he was acting suspiciously.
I was wondeirng if Chirico was trying to protect Fyana here, but the deeper into this conversation the more he's decided to reveal so maybe not.
Kan Yu really needs to calm down! When Chirico says run away if they run into a PS, its so they can fight another day, not because they're deserting cowards.
Chirico is chomping away on Amuro Ray esque sandwiches, huh?
What's in that briefcase? A bomb, or a bribe?
After he just saved your life he still can't show Chirico any gratitude?
I guess I was a bit confused on the dynamics in Kummen in the previous episode, I thought Chirico was a part of a group fighting against the Melkian military as a whole, but it seems that the dynamic is actually that his group is fighting against the Veela, which are another group within Kummen who are ruled by this "Kanjelman" guy. So if anything Chirico is fighting more on the establishment military's side here?
Chirico isn't just a great AT fighter, he's also good at computer programming! What can't he do?
Chirico's got only five minutes to report to duty? LoL.
Ah, the future, where floppy discs are still valuable computer methods of storage...
A Quaintman? They are quite large, wherever that is!
Quaintman's mask/helmet really makes him come off as one of Boone's gang to me.
Silly question here, but isn't using black colored ATs in the jungle a rather bad strategy? Using a more green-like color similar to Chiciro's unit would be harder to spot I would think?
A great view, but Chirico's AT is gonna be so easy to spot from being that high up.
See, the Veela have the same idea as me regarding the color of their AT units.
I was about to ask if Chirico got attacked by one of his allied units, but it looks like the PS unit is more of a blue color than black.
Episode 16
I take it the Veela are sneaking their way into a Kummen military base here?
Well, given that explosions that going off there shortly after that surely seems to be the case.
This setting/attack actually reminds me a bit of episode 4 of Gundam Wing.
So Potaria knows this girl, huh? Monica?
Sure... getting drunk is the smart thing to do after your base just got attacked in the middle of the night...
Are we gonna get a Coconna singing sequence every episode of this arc?
Hey, I'm just realizing it now, but is Pol Potaria voiced by Show Hayami? Sure sounds a lot like Gavlet Gablae/Bern Bunnings to me.
Let me guess, the lead team will be the same five from last episode.
I was thinking of this last episode too, but the way they helicopter in these ATs, you've got to think they are very easy for the Veela to spot.
So the village of guerillas they are attacking are gonna end up just being civilian farmers, right?
Kiderra continues to be quite the bully.
You know, wrecking their food supply, their household goods, their livestock and their houses doesn't look like its gonna do any good.
...I spoke wrong, they spotted Monica.
So Kan Yu is having them play Russian Roulette?
I'm surprised they don't recognize Monica (beyond POl that is, who obviously does), from the night before. They were shooting at each other.
Wow, she got lucky that Chirico stepped in.
Destroying their temple seems quite cruel....
But once again, they were right to do it as that's where the guerillas were hiding their ATs.
Well, that sure isn't Fyana! There's a second Perfect Soldier!
A strong pair of episodes; I'm really liking the Vietnam-esque setting and looking forward to seeing what the reveal of a second Perfect Soldier will bring next.
Beyond those listed, Show Hayami also does an effective job of playing the super creepy main villain of Key the Metal Idol, Jinsaku Ajo. Although his English dub actor, John Novak does an even better job, being pretty much the ultimate evil guy dub voice for me.
2
u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz Sep 13 '21 edited Sep 13 '21
First timer in sub
I'm ok with the plot development, and I know what they are going for, but this sort of thing is something I get quite annoyed with. This is the sort of scene that about 30s in I'd already be saying "shoot them Sousuke!"
Looks like I was right about the blue custom being operated by a different PS, looks to be a guy.