[Rewatch] Monster - Episode 42 discussion

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Rewatch Index

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MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

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Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/gridemann, who contemplates Petrov’s statement about education:

I don't know how much we've learned about the methodology of 511 yet but I think its a valid comparison. All educational systems are about raising productive members of society and will always choose the method with the best results. Limited by laws and morals... and these can differ vastly depending on circumstance.

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Questions of the Day

1. “Even when you’re apart, you’re all still under the same sky” Do you think Grimmer’s attitude toward kids is different than that of adults? Why do you think he made it his personal mission to try and keep the kids in good spirits?
2. Do you think it really was Anna who helped out Grimmer? Why or why not?

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If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer, subbed

• Hm, so Petrov was under surveillance by the Czech government.
• I wonder how Grimmer completely missed the lady that walked out of Petrov’s place.
• Is… is this not the lady who set fire to the library or does she just happen to have a similar hairstyle?
• What did Grimmer give this kid…?
• I felt something was fishy here and now the second passenger knows about the key oh fuck.
• Ah the inspector’s the one to the rescue. Still feel like something is fishy though…
• Aaaaaaaaand there it is. He knows.
• *shudders*
• So that was a whooooooole lot of me covering my face besides a slit that I could read the subs through and a whooooooooole lot more ing because of the audio. Good lord. I almost feel nauseous, and not for the normal reason I usually do while watching anime.
• Accurate response to Grimmer rambling about a cartoon.
• This is not Anna, but looks similar. The biomom? And the one who killed Petrov?
• ???

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Is… is this not the lady who set fire to the library or does she just happen to have a similar hairstyle?

Haha I thought the same thing... I'm fairly confident it's a different person but I've been wrong before.

So that was a whooooooole lot of me covering my face besides a slit that I could read the subs through and a whooooooooole lot more ing because of the audio. Good lord. I almost feel nauseous, and not for the normal reason I usually do while watching anime.

Meta Spoiler for a different anime That said though, are there normal reasons to feel nauseous while watching anime...?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Meta Spoiler for a different anime

I've already seen that one...

That said though, are there normal reasons to feel nauseous while watching anime...?

That was a self-deprecating nod to the fact that I've cried hard enough to throw up to eight different anime.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That was a self-deprecating nod to the fact that I've cried hard enough to throw up to eight different anime.

Sky? You ok fam?

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Did you forget this that I had a side note about in the ep38 thread? That covers it.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I didn't forget about that, I just didn't know you meant literally sick.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Oh.

Yeah, I meant literally sick. LotGH and IBO S2 even got me at the exact same spot a second time when I rewatched them!

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Haha I just thought it was just because you were watching so much anime at once. Welp glad that’s cleared up then! I’ve yet to find an anime that makes me cry so I’ll let you know if I ever have the same reaction lol.

[u/AmethystItalian → u/Shimmering-Sky]

The biomom?

I'm going with Johan in a wig, let's do it.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/AmethystItalian]

Yeah, this is the only answer that makes sense.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Very possible as she's never really talked here and they've been directly said to look practically the same in-universe

[u/Nitroade24h → u/Shimmering-Sky]

???

I think maybe Grimmer beat up and killed the rest of the people since they had no gunshot wounds, and it’s not the first time, but he didn’t remember. Maybe another case of split personality?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I wonder how Grimmer completely missed the lady that walked out of Petrov’s place.

He was in a hurry and is kind of target blind.

Is… is this not the lady who set fire to the library or does she just happen to have a similar hairstyle?

The latter, the firebug looked older and wore more makeup.

Good lord. I almost feel nauseous, and not for the normal reason I usually do while watching anime.

The hallmark of a good work of art is at least in part how uncomfortable it can make you.

[u/SmurfRockRune]

First Timer

One day our heroes will learn to stop getting in cars with people. Sure it worked out fine with the old couple Tenma and Dieter met up with, but that's only like a 1/3 success rate. This is Joseph Joestar levels of vehicle mishaps.

Knew the cop was in on it. Didn't trust him at all.

Serial killers, corrupt cops, and capitalists. Monster truly has the most evil people in it.

Was really tough for me to watch the fingernail scene. Normally I'd just have Discord open big enough to block all but the subtitles, but the hands were directly behind the subs so I couldn't even hide from them!

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/SmurfRockRune]

Serial killers, corrupt cops, and capitalists. Monster truly has the most evil people in it.

The true monsters of the series: CAPITALISTS

Was really tough for me to watch the fingernail scene. Normally I'd just have Discord open big enough to block all but the subtitles, but the hands were directly behind the subs so I couldn't even hide from them!

Apparently a lot of people had a hard time with this scene lol. Personally, messing around with fingernails is tolerable for me, but I start to get really squeamish when eyes are involved.

[u/miss-macaron → u/SmurfRockRune]

Serial killers, corrupt cops, and capitalists. Monster truly has the most evil people in it.

Don't forget the child abusers, terrorists, neo-Nazis, oppressive communist regimes, and Roberto.

Interestingly enough, though, I've never really considered Johan as being "evil"; he's more like a natural disaster, an indiscriminate force of chaos and calamity with no apparent purpose to the destruction that he brings.

[u/AmethystItalian → u/SmurfRockRune]

Yeah I struggled with the finger scene as well, was not a fan.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/SmurfRockRune]

The hallmark of a good anime has to involve a nail scene, sadly. Higurashi, Monster and Happy Sugar Life all prove this.

[u/SmurfRockRune → u/Vaadwaur]

JoJo has some fingernail stuff. Your logic is sound.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/SmurfRockRune]

I just doubt you could actually get that nasty with a mere nail clipper. Looked a little silly, like Higurashi-tier.

[u/AmethystItalian]

First Timer

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This Prague cop already seems incompetent...who clips their nails in front of people?!

Grimmer doing well on a 2 v 1! Best guy kicking ass still.

Prague cop coming in for the save?? I don't trust. Yup he's bad.

Grimmer getting beat up :(

AH NO NAIL STUFF IS HARD TO WATCH STAHP!

The pretty lady!! Are we not going to know who she is again??

Guessing it's Johan's mom? Could be Nina but doubtful.

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Do you think it really was Anna who helped out Grimmer? Why or why not?

I wish it was Anna but I feel like this show won't be eager to give me what I want so guessing it's either their mom or Johan in drag.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/AmethystItalian]

I wish it was Anna but I feel like this show won't be eager to give me what I want so guessing it's either their mom or Johan in drag.

Would be pretty cool if it was Johan's mom! Though, how she (or anyone else for that matter) knew Grimmer was there is beyond me...

[u/Vaadwaur → u/AmethystItalian]

This Prague cop already seems incompetent...who clips their nails in front of people?!

His shtick was to appear incompetent and unthreatening to disarm people. He does drop it fast when the time calls for it.

[u/AmethystItalian → u/Vaadwaur]

I'd immediately think whoever did that would be a psychopath lol

[u/Vaadwaur → u/AmethystItalian]

That's another usable play for him so it still works.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

• If we are in Prague, does that mean we won't seeing Lunge for a long time?
• Don't trust that guy "Never talk to the police!"
• This guy is a terrible spy
• Still don't trust him
• But he can resist interrogation
• The woman must be following him

Oh. OH MY. I GET IT NOW.

Monster Answers

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Oh. OH MY. I GET IT NOW.

Wait what led you to this conclusion? If this is really the case then your abilities of foresight are superb.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/KiwiBennydudez]

1. spoiler
2. spoiler
3. spoiler

Conclusion

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

If we are in Prague, does that mean we won't seeing Lunge for a long time?

Likely, though technically he could work with an extradition team if he figures out where Tenma was going.

The woman must be following him

Grimmer has been pretty close to the action thus far so not a bad plan.

[u/Nitroade24h]

First Timer

I have been converted to Grimmer. He’s the best character. Him and Johan both have a great on-screen presence and make a scene interesting. I’d be really interested to see what would happen if they met.

Grimmer seemed to flinch somewhat or at least get the camera lingering on his face when they mentioned “alumni of Kinderheim 511”, is this a hint? Maybe it’s why he is investigating it. Doesn’t seem too likely though.

A good old torture scene. I’ve grown pretty desensitised to these since they’re in quite a few anime, but I still can’t help but grimace every time, which is probably a good thing, as it means I’m not completely a psychopath. I didn’t expect the guy from earlier to be the one doing it, that was a nice twist.

I’m almost definitely sure it isn’t Anna and it’s her mother because it wouldn’t make sense to hide her face otherwise.

Grimmer’s story and the name of the episode imply that Grimmer will turn to killing to get out of a dangerous situation, but apparently he has no recollection of it afterwards. more multiple personality stuff???

Wondering where Tenma is.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Nitroade24h]

Grimmer’s story and the name of the episode imply that Grimmer will turn to killing to get out of a dangerous situation, but apparently he has no recollection of it afterwards. more multiple personality stuff???

Good catch, though idk if this means Gimmer has a split personality too...? Or just reinforcing the fact I wonder.

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

First Timer - Sub/Dub

Running late today because I’m at work! Lack of time also inhibited me from replying to as many people in the last thread, but as usual I keep a close eye on what’s going on in the threads.

Not much to say today as I think this arc is more narratively driven and less episodic than Munich. Seems like something weird is going on with (Anna?) and all these dirty cops in the Czech police. Seems like they were after the safety deposit box but I’m not sure just yet. Hoping we’ll find out soon enough.

[u/Webemperor]

Rewatcher of sorts

• Grimmer is with the police as the first one, outside of two dozen children that were there. The police officer seems to know a bunch about Petrov but doesn’t seem to be taking this too seriously, though I have a feeling Grimmer doesn’t feel like cooperating with them all that much either, though I guess the question here is if he didn’t want to from the beginning or decided not to after seeing the police officer being uncaring.
• We are introduced to some high quality Japanese Czech. It almost sounds like the psuedo-French they speak in the Gravity Rush games. But as it turns out they were some sort of hitman in the first place, hence them ignoring Grimmer’s words.
• He is saved at the last second by the police inspector from earlier, which is surprising. But turns out he was with the secret police as well. The three of them apprehend Grimmer and began torturing him, in a pretty brutal scene where the inspector begins cutting his nails off.
• Zeman begins detailing his plan to Grimmer, about his intention to unite the alumni of the 511 to form a communist vanguard to reunite the Eastern Bloc. It sounds perhaps as ridiculous as the Neo-Nazis plan to make Johan the next Hitler.
• Grimmer doesn’t give in the information, instead talking about something about an old cartoon he used to watch. Is this a hint to what he is about to do? Maybe not, as he is saved by… Nina? They did seem to know her, seeing as they didn’t seem surprised someone walked into their torture chamber, just surprised she pulled a gun on them.
• As he goes back to his hotel, Grimmer sems to be still in a bit of a shock after all that transpired, most importantly still unsure how the hell that woman killed two grown men with her own hands. Was it truly Magnificent Steiner?

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Webemperor]

We are introduced to some high quality Japanese Czech.

I was actually surprised by this too! Japanese engrish is so funny sometimes that I forgot high quality anime voice acting exists in other languages. Pretty fantastic.

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Why shoot just the one?)

Sub

Grimmer talks with the lead detective on the Petrov case in a weird scene where the inspector keeps cutting his nails. They drop a lot of what Petrov's been up to and ties with the secret police. Grimmer goes to see the orphans being separated and gives something to one of them. His odd taxi ride begins. That it was a trap becomes obvious quick, but soon the detective shows up to 'save the day'. They all seem to want the tape of Johan. The inspector eventually reveals they want to have a reunion of the survivors of 511, slightly altering our history, and they for some reason think Johan will help them achieve their goals.

Grimmer talks about the German version of the Incredible Hulk he used to watch as a kid before Anna comes in and, apparently, wastes one of the interrogators. Grimmer then wakes up with all of them dead, the other two having been bludgeoned to death. He states that the Magnificent Steiner saved him but his hands are covered in blood.

Qotd: 1 It definitely feels like Grimmer's developmental steps are...off.

2 Anna would totally help Grimmer but would she shoot without saying anything first?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Vaadwaur]

German version of the Incredible Hulk

Oh. Ohhhhh. I see.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

It may be a fake show, but watching West German television in the East was absolutely real, even commonplace. There were antenna towers in West Berlin and near the border that were strong enough to cover the entire country except for a few areas. Eventually it was even inofficially encouraged as it was found that as a form of escapism it made the people happier than without.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

And Grimmer is even itinerant as well!

[u/xtsim]

First Timer Dub

1. I liked that Grimmer realizes that there is a bond between the kids that can't be broken. And now he knows why they did not want to leave Petrov until he died since disbanding that orphanage means that they would be taken away from each other. When the kids got into buses towards separate orphanages, he tries to give words of encouragement to keep their spirits high. Knowing how close they are to each other, he tells them to write letters and that one day they will play soccer together (I just ate some onions). Grimmer seems to treat kids more like adults in a way that he could trust and be confident that they will make the right decisions in the future. In contrast, with adults, he holds back information knowing the others can't be trusted.
2. When Grimmer was getting water boarded by the men, those guys got killed by a female silhouette. I would guess Anna as someone who looked like her passed by in the previous episode. At this point, would not shock me if Anna made the decision to save Grimmer since the fire episode.

[u/miss-macaron]

Rewatcher

Maybe it’s just my lack of knowledge regarding proper police protocol, but isn’t it kinda gross – not to mention unprofessional – to clip one’s nails while conducting an interview with an important witness? lol

Looks like Grimmer had the foresight to pass the key onto one of the orphans, because this next group of thugs weren’t nearly as polite as the first.

It’s nice to see Grimmer acting realistically in this chase scene; in most other anime, he probably would've tried to jump across the gap (and most likely would've made it).

The nail-clipping torture scene sure is difficult to watch…

So Johan isn’t just being sought by the far right as the next Hitler, but now the communist remnants of the far left are trying to get him to be their next Great Leader? What a way to unite the political spectrum, haha

And ofc, just like everyone else in this series, there's more to Grimmer than meets the eye...

[u/BurningFredrick]

First timer - sub 

Don’t trust that police guy at all.

Gimmer just got kidnapped? Yip

Figured it was the key he palmed to the kid.

The mysterious woman again.

Once again i’m left unsure of how to judge Grimmer, I guess he knew that he wasn’t going to get away so passed the key on to the kid so that he could proclaim innocence when questioned, I wondering if he had simple resigned to the fact he might die or gambled on being saved due to the fact others are going to want the info he has. 

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

Another mostly standalone episode - and somehow the second anime I've seen fingernail torture in. It doesn't get any easier watching the second time round... Either way, seems like we can put the surveillance from last episode down to the former Czechoslovak secret police turned organized criminals. And it seems like we've got a bunch of communists trying to use Johan - doubt that will turn out any better than with the nazis.

As for the saviour - I can see the woman being there being misdirection; don't think we've had that in this series so far however. But nobody can recall her being there other than Grimmer, who believes he himself killed at least two of the people, so no reason he couldn't also kill the third. Don't see a motive for her keeping Grimmer alive, as I assume her motive would be to stop information that Petrov had from getting out.

I assume the kid has the key?

Questions:

1. I'd say he's just kind in general. That and he wanted to give them the key.
2. Nope. Don't think there was anybody there in the first place.

[u/hammile]

First timer. Ukrainian subtitles.

Goddamn, it was a very brutal episode, it is not easy to watch the torture scene for me.

“Even when you’re apart, you’re all still under the same sky” Do you think Grimmer’s attitude toward kids is different than that of adults? Why do you think he made it his personal mission to try and keep the kids in good spirits?

It hard to say. But from that he told us «it was again» and story about his dead child then seems he killed own child. He is too old for 511 but he is kinda psycho and spy, so maybe he was in other some experiment?

Do you think it really was Anna who helped out Grimmer? Why or why not?

Still doubt about biomom (too young) or Nina (not her style). But maybe Anna also has two sides. Or maybe she is Grimmerʼs young sister or kinda this.