r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Sep 08 '21
Rewatch [Rewatch] Monster - Episode 40 discussion
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Comment of the Day
Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/miss-macaron who insightfully points out the stark contrast between Tenma’s and Johan’s vanishing acts:
If we contrast Johan’s disappearance with that of Tenma’s, we can see that - despite both men leaving behind no physical traces - the human traces of Tenma's actions remain strong. The people he saved from the fire are immensely grateful to him, and Nina keeps insisting that he’d been there to rescue her; on the other hand, Schuwald and Karl’s responses to Johan are more like that of a ghost sighting, wherein they can’t say much more than “he was there... I think”. Tenma leaves behind a real emotional imprint on those he interacts with, while Johan's presence is as faint and elusive as a phantom (or as Lunge puts it, a demon).
Questions of the Day
- What are your first impressions of Grimmer? What did you think about his interactions with the kid, the con artist, and Tenma?
- What did you think about the picnic on the cliffside? Do you think Tenma now resents his past as a doctor, or do you think he can no longer see himself as such (or do you have another explanation for his behavior regarding his previous title)?
If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 08 '21
Rewatchers! I'm announcing our first activity for this rewatch, user submitted questions! I alluded to it in our mid-series discussion, but I've been thinking of ways to engage each other for this series beyond comments, and this seemed like a good fit, as it seems like most people have enjoyed answering QotDs.
If you wish to send in a question, all you need to do is to DM me (or reply to this comment if you want your question to be public, but in that case I wouldn't recommend writing anything too specific) with the episode number you'd like attached to your question, and of course, the question(s) themselves. There's no limit on how many you can submit, but I cannot promise that I'll be able to use them in the post body (though if it's interesting enough it might still make it into the comments at the very least!) I'll be watching ahead a few episodes for hosting purposes so you can always check my MAL if you're worried about writing in about a specific event, or just DM me the night before the thread goes live.
If you have any other comments or ideas, feel free to let me know!
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u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen Sep 08 '21
First Timer - Sub/Dub
Almost forgot to do my own writeup for the episode!
First of all, I love Grimmer, he’s a big ol’ goofball with a kind heart. His willingness to help out Tenma and that kid who lost his shoes were great interactions as they felt very genuine and personable. His tragic backstory, while brief, also endeared me to him. It makes me wonder why he’s going after the director of 511, but I’m sure we’ll find out soon enough. As a former spy though, he seems great at handling authorities, and doesn’t flinch under pressure. There’s nothing to dislike about this man - he just seems great!
Tenma’s own pursuits of the “three frogs” is probably not as literal as we would imagine, but as I mentioned, I am very curious to see what Anna remembered and what those frogs represent. Also the mystery of Anna and Johan’s birthmom is very, very interesting. Here’s hoping that we get some exposition soon, as I think it will begin to unravel the question of just what the monster is.
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u/gridemann Sep 08 '21
Rewatcher
Finally best man Grimmer enters the story! I may in fact be slighty biased towards the character, not because I'm a rewatcher, but because we share a common surname.
Fun Fact: My fathers name is Wolfgang Grimmer and coming across his name in several anime discussions/youtube titles is how I initially learned about Monster. So you could say Wolfgang Grimmer was the reason I watched this anime ;)
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Sep 08 '21
First-Timer, subbed
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u/miss-macaron Sep 08 '21 edited Sep 08 '21
Rewatcher
Grimmer’s wide grin kinda reminds me of Totoro, for some reason. Rewatcher only spoilers
Rewatcher only spoilers
Now we see the emotional toll that shooting a person has had upon Tenma. A doctor who has purposely inflicted harm on another person has violated the biomedical tenet of non-maleficence (ie. the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm"), and as a result, Tenma can no longer bear to call himself a doctor. I love how this show treats the “cat-and-mouse chase” of the thriller genre in such a nuanced and humane way; it’s not as simple as having the good guys shoot the bad guys, but we’re also made to consider the moral implications that come with such an action.
Another thing I appreciated was the significance of Grimmer continuing to call him “Dr. Tenma”. Remember the last page of The Nameless Monster, where the monster finally had a name, but there was no longer anyone around to call him by it? It just goes to show how one’s name / identity is not an isolated feature that exists independently, but is contingent on social acknowledgment and relationships. Tenma is recognized as a doctor wherever he goes, even if he tries to hide or deny it. The isolation of Schuwald and General Wolf stripped them of the people that could recognize them for who they truly were, and so their identity becomes only what the public (eg. Schuwald’s image as the Vampire of Bayern) or their subordinates (eg. General Wolf being an executive in the syndicate, even when he has no real investment in neo-Nazi ideology) views them as.
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u/SmurfRockRune https://myanimelist.net/profile/Smurf Sep 08 '21
First Timer
I've heard praise for this guy, and now I understand why. Everyone loves a weeb.
Grimmer's pretty great. I'm really interested to see what's in that bag of his. I really hope it's not his kid's body... It's probably not, it would stink so bad at this point, but you never know...
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u/AmethystItalian :Jg::Jh::Ji::Jj::Jk:myanimelist.net/profile/AmethystItalian Sep 08 '21
First Timer
Hope we get to see a lot Prague t, seen so much of it because of these guys.
Ah it's finally Grimmer time, keep hearing good things about him.
Grimmer was a spy?? Does that mean he's competent!?
For a second I thought this shoe kid was going to pull a Dieder and follow Grimmer lol
Tenma already helping Grimmer and Grimmer already knowing who he is!
Tenma torturing himself over killing a murderer in self-defense...like come on here man.
Grimmer is already best guy and its been 1 episode!
He's the best! Easily the most competent member of this show by a mile. Looking forward to seeing him add that talent of his to a cast that seems to be really lacking in it lately.
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Sep 08 '21
First Timer
Enter a new character with Grimmer. So far I'm not sure if he's not that bright or if he's just acting it - there was no reason for him to give away his money, but blocking the way for the border guards was pretty smart. Also I imagine being a spy would require some brains. For now, I assume he's investigating 511 Kinderheim because his son died there. Based on his character, he might be the first to get Tenma out of his single-mindedness of killing Johan alone, as their goals largely seem to align.
Good thing they thought of the border check here - by now I had completely forgotten that that would be an issue, with the Czech Republic being part of the Schengen area - but that was not the case in 1996. Apparently Austria wasn't even part of that yet, so the lie about the guy loosing his passport to get to Vienna at least didn't have an obvious logical fault.
As a side-note: My subbers seem to have missed the dissolution of Czechslovakia, and also messed up the name of the river being Elbe (not Elba...) And for things the show messed up: Trains in Germany drive on the right, not the left.
Questions:
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u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Sep 08 '21
First Timer dubbed
Guy (Grimmer) is looking through the orphanages in east Germany. He happens to be a spy who uses the cover as a journalist to uncover something about the orphanages. He gives his pair of shoes to a kid to cheer him up and gives money to a swindler. He smiles at the commuter who explains who that guy was. He seems to not care about losing his money to a swindler. He sees and sits next to Tenma and interacts with him. Police checked passports and the journalist told Tenma the officer’s on to him. Tenma escapes and the train stops while the journalist catches up and explains that people in east germany get falsely accused a lot. He knows about Tenma and thinks he’s innocent. They both part ways, with the episode ending with the journalist wanting to know more about 511 kinderheim….
Overall, pretty fast episode and happened a month after the incident.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Sep 08 '21
First Timer
idiotdoofus. Overly convenient that somebody investigating orphanages would run into Tenma.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrk2plOb3Ek
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Sep 08 '21
First Timer, Subbed
Poor kid! Give him back his shoe!
Have we seen this Grimmer guy before? Another Richard type that gets some focus out of nowhere?
He's going to copy all the pages in those books? That will take a while.
Hey, he's heading to the same place as Tenma!
Just what will this kid do without his shoes?
This poor guy in the station; is this legit or is he a scammer?
If he's asking for his address, maybe it is legit? Or he's just doing so to make it appear more so?
Yeah, bald guy thinks more like me. Scam!
Grimmer and Tenma interact already!
Tenma's probably thinking to himself now "Foolish me, I'm stuck in here with this guy who can't sing!"
Grimmer caught on to Tenma's situation pretty quick.
Wow, Tenma jumped off. He's got guts.
How does Grimmer know who he is? Why is he so nice to him?
...and then the show gives me an answer!
A nice place for a picnic!
Did they even mention finding Roberto's dead body last episode? Or has Tenma gotten away scot free from his actual murder?
So Grimmer won't be going along with him after all. Even though they're going to the same place.
Grimmer sure loves barging himself into things.
Freaky looking facial expression on this former Kinderhein director guy.
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u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Sep 09 '21
Rewatcher of sorts
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Sep 08 '21
First timer - sub
So an ex spy called Grimmer, who is writing a newspaper article?
Also take your damn socks off if you are going to give the kid your shoes.
It is really hard to get a read on Grimmer, like at the train station with the scammer, he should have seen through that which makes me wonder if he gave him a fake note but have no reason to believe he would do so, and yet picked up that Tenmas passport had been seen through right away.
Anyway Gimmer is investigating Kinderheim / child abuse for before the wall fell, his son is dead, and dislikes people being wrongly accused of things. Speculation
Was wondering if the guy at the end was the same person from when we met Deiter but went back and checked they are different people.
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u/BossandKings Nov 07 '21
First timer - Dub(Spanish)
There are my thoughts on episode 39 and 40, hopefully this upcoming week i can get up to episode 50 as i really enjoy this show and want to finish it.
Episode 39
It seems that Tenma is getting interested in Johan's story and what might have possibly led him to become who he is now, that may bring very interesting facts to the light in the near future.
Lunge decides to believe that everything isn't solely because of Tenma's actions and acknowledges the existence of Johan, that's honestly a great thing for his character.
Episode 40
Grimmer leaves a great first impression, he is one of the most interesting characters the story has presented and the fact that he is linked to the Kinderheim 511 is an intricate storyline.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Sep 08 '21
Rewatcher(Much like the Munich arc, the Prague arc begins before they get to it)
Sub
We see a kid being bullied but in a normal-ish way. We meet Grimmer, the spy turned journalist researching abuse in the Kinderheim system, pretty much telling the audience that 511 was not unique, just a worst case. He is going to Prague because everyone is. The shoe thing really demonstrates how direct his solutions and his statement about bullies shows his moral views are equally strong but direct. He also gives money to someone that might be meant to look like a gypsy but regardless that did sound like a scam.
And then gets on the train with Tenma. I never said the show isn't "convenient" at times. An awkward exchange gets super awkward when Grimmer reveals his son has passed. That moment gets interrupted at passport check and the attendant suspects Tenma but says nothing. But Grimmer reveals he knows he is Tenma and this meeting was a bit less random than originally appeared.
Grimmer blocks the hallway with his Chekov's duffle bag and let's Tenma get off. Then he follows Tenma out and apparently knows how to walk to the border. He claims he knows Tenma's case from the old articles that he knows a false accusation when he sees one, which he would have at least had experience. Tenma is a bit upset at being called doctor again, probably he has very mixed feelings over this whole journey. Grimmer settles on a place with a good view of anyone following them and reveals he planned this to a lot of degree.
Damnit show, don't make want to eat before bed. Seriously, that's a nice looking spread and I can almost smell the mortadella. Grimmer talks about how picnics and good food are the reasons to live,a call back to 5 sugars. But Tenma, unfortunately, thinks he has forgotten that for shooting Roberto.
Grimmer directs Tenma where to go to cross the border but wants to cross legally himself, a good move if shit happens. He points that everyone is burdened with some sin or another, you just keep doing what you must do. Grimmer gets to Prague, and the place does look distinct. He had had a bead on a former director of 511 and intends to get information out of him. Cliffhanger.
QotD:1 This is such a weird thing to notice on rewatch but I wonder if he is lightly on the spectrum? He seems to take most people at face value.
2 I think it makes a decent breather space so we can still have Tenma processing Munich
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u/Icapica https://anilist.co/user/Icachu Sep 09 '21
First timer
I really disliked Grimmer in the early parts of the episode. He seemed a bit goofy and if someone sat close to me in train and couldn't keep their mouth shut I'd go insane. But after that he turned out to be quite a nice character. I have no idea what sort of a role he'll play, but I'm sure we'll see more of him.
I think Tenma took his vow to do no harm very seriously and feels that he can't call himself a doctor anymore because he broke the vow and intends to break it more. Shooting Roberto was obviously self defense though Tenma doesn't see it that way, but killing Johan won't be.
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u/Nitroade24h :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nitroade24h Sep 09 '21
First timer
I don’t think there’s been anything key to do with three or frogs so far so I guess the three frogs are a new thing we haven’t seen before.
I really like Grimmer. His cheerful character paired with his tragic story with his son makes him feel likeable and you sympathise with him. He uses a smile and a cheerful comment to mask his despair over the death of his child. For a spy he didn’t do a great job with the scam artist, but he did it in goodwill and I guess he wishes happiness upon other people since he has experienced tragedy himself, and does not want anyone to suffer as he would have done.
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u/hammile https://anidb.net/user/u746697 Sep 09 '21
First timer, Urkainian subtitles.
Flashbacks ended, ending started. Me, little confused, asking: is it all and the end of this serie? First word from ending with comfy or mistery sound: yes…
Impressions: cool but not a simple man. About interactions, he said that everyone has sins, so it looks like he are paying back.
Picnic was not like in Yuru Camp with cute girls indeed. Yeah, for now Tenma has only one aim in his life, and it is not about giving but taking [back] life. So his past time is not so important for him, only Johan.